255

Problem
Posted on April 25, 2017 by David M Willis

255 thoughts on “Problem”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    I feel like keeping the blue shells were a metaphor for those chairs

    1. Ana Chronistic

      (was tryna work in a better turtle reference but eh)

      1. zoelogical

        who’s the blue teenage mutant ninja turtle

        1. Rukduk

          Leonardo? What’s he got to do with this? Amber would easily be Raphael.

        2. zoelogical

          well i mean obviously you get blue shells from the blue turtle and maybe that one is amber’s favorite

          which is why she cant use blue shells because then she’d be contributing to the deforestation of blue turtles

          …or something

        3. Spaz

          Son, this is the Great Turtle Forest. When a turtle dies, you plant its shell, and two more shall rise to take its place.

          But lately the loggers have been more concerned about just getting shells for the ‘Kart races, and soon there will be no more shells to plant.

          We need to lobby the government about the turtle shell deforestation issue.

          Especially blue shells.

          people come in at night and burn the blue shell forests, because they hate the blue shells so much.

        4. zoelogical

          -sheds a single tear- but i believe aang, the great blue smurf, can save us all

        5. Chris

          I AM THE TURTLAX!!! I SPEAK FOR THE TURTLES!

        6. zoelogical

          thank you april!! your yellow coveralls speak for us all!!!

        7. begbert2

          Donatello is Amber’s favorite, unless this world is upside-down and inside-out.

          He’s the smart one, wears a purple bandanna, incidentally.

        8. zoelogical

          contrariwise she wouldnt want to destroy donatello’s brother’s family’s blue shells because it would make donatello sad

          i have never watched teenage mutant ninja turtles in my life

        9. N0083rP00F

          What with all this colored bandana stuff?
          Next you will be saying TMNT ride skateboards, use language equivalent to chemically addled dude bros and that April is some valley girl.

        10. begbert2

          Don’t be ridiculous!

          April is a *reporter*.

        11. Delicious Taffy

          Leonardo does not give blue shells. His shells are green-brown, like the rest of the Turtles.

        12. zoelogical

          listen……..

          … … …

          phacts are meaningles when it comes to the fruit of a beautiful bed of an au tree

          this is my gift to you. these horribly innacccurate truths

  2. AnvilPro

    I’m happy for Danny

    1. Briny

      You know… come to think of it, I think I agree. Amber’s as grown a woman as he is a man, she’s more than capable of seeking out help for the problem she casually acknowledges she has… hanging around like that’s no good for her and actively bad for him. He’s free now.

    2. begbert2

      I’m sad for Danny. He’s unwanted and unvalued. It seems like every person he tries to connect with rejects him or openly scorns him.

      Rejects:
      Dorothy, Amber

      Scorns:
      Sal, Joe

      Poor guy.

      1. Fart Captor

        Dorothy is still friends with him, even if she doesn’t want to date him.
        Sal is definitely friends with him, and just made a point of saying hello to him a couple strips back.

        I don’t think Amber is rejecting him so much as sucking at she sucks at showing it and/or switching between gaming and socializing. That or she’s still pushing him away because she doesn’t feel she deserves him.

        And Ethan definitely likes Danny

        1. Fart Captor

          Not that this doesn’t still suck for Danny, though. That kid needs a hug :/

      2. Rowen Morland

        Maybe he should be friends with Mary again.

        1. Godfather

          What? No. No. No. nooooooooooooooooooooope.

      3. BBCC

        Sal doesn’t scorn Danny anymore. She seems to like having him around. He told her to buzz off the other day but they appear to be getting along now.

      4. Yossarianduck

        Also, his own family.

    3. Jago

      Honestly? Yeah, me too.

  3. Rei

    I found it kind of worrying that Amber is so distant to Danny, but I’m not sure how to put it into words D:

    1. Kris

      Why worry? It’s not like Amber was dating Danny.

    2. fillerusername

      He was apart of her much needed support system at college and by shutting him out she’s making it that much smaller.

    3. Fart Captor

      I think she just had a bit of an introvert moment. She was too focused on the game, and didn’t realize until after he’d walked away that either (a) he wanted to talk and she should have put the game down, (b) she was a bit short with him when was trying to be nice / friendly, or (c) both.

      And as soon as she realized she’d botched yet another social situation today, it’s right back into the fortress of solitude :[

      1. Fart Captor

        The particularly sad part is that this particular mistake is easily fixed by going after Danny and talking to him, which would probably take less energy than she’ll end up spending kicking herself over this.

        1. Spaz

          but……that would mean letting Sal win the race!

        2. Deanatay

          Doesn’t sound like you know introverts very well. Going after Danny and talking to him sounds exhausting. Playing some more MarioKart will recharge her batteries.

        3. Spencer

          It’s more of a basic human decency thing. Danny’s in pain, pain that she caused, and she’s ignoring it to play video games.

          That’s not being an introvert that’s, intention or not, is being an asshole.

        4. Fart Captor

          I dunno. It’s a fuck up that feels all too familiar to me.

          I’m not good at switching between socializing and any task that requires much of my attention, so I end up coming across as cold or disinterested, unless I make a point of putting what ever it is aside completely. This tends to result in a lot of situations where I realize – minutes after a conversation ended – that a coworker was trying to get to know me and I’d let the entire conversation be one-sided, and probably came across as completely disinterested.

          Which I will usually spend the rest of the day kicking myself about, because I would love to be able to get to know my coworkers better, or like, actually connect with people, and I hate how unfriendly or even rude I’m sure it comes across.

          That’s probably not why she was so curt with Danny (or at least not all of it), but the last three panels just really felt like she realized she’d fucked up, and is hiding because even though she WANTS to fix it, she doesn’t know how and/or is afraid of fucking it up worse.

          Doesn’t really make it less crappy to treat Danny that way, but I have no doubt she’s all too aware 🙁

        5. Spencer

          Not being able to connect with strangers isn’t some glaring flaw especially if you are actively working on something important. You have nothing you should feel compelled to experience guilt over.

          Danny is someone Amber knows well, and she persists in hurting him without doing anything to make amends. She’s a piece of shit.

          You also don’t violently abuse people so you’ve got a clear leg up over Amber.

        6. thejeff

          Well, leaving the “violently abuse” part aside, it’s the same exact thing, just on a bigger scale – likely because Amber’s problems are worse than FC’s.

          She didn’t do it intentionally. She realizes what she did and withdraws farther because she doesn’t have the spoons to fix it – and because it just reaffirms her opinion of herself.

          You’ll be happy to know that Amber shares your assessment of her. She’s a piece of shit and not worthy of Danny. She’ll just hurt him. See, she just did.

        7. Spencer

          Yes, she just did. As she has before, as she will continue to do so.

          Because she is a loathsome disgusting piece of shit.

        8. thejeff

          You are aware that was my reading of Amber’s opinion of herself, right? Not my assessment of her character.

        9. Fart Captor

          I know. I’m projecting, and Amber’s dealing with a different set of problems.

          But she isn’t a piece of shit. She’s just sucking at being Danny’s friend right now. It’s something she can fix with a bit of effort.

          It sucks, but it’s far from monstrous. Danny will be alright.

        10. Spencer

          Danny shouldn’t have to put up with her constant abusive shit if this were the only crap she’d done then fine but every time she’s on panel it’s just her and her stupid bullshit.

          Compare literally any other character’s treatment of Danny to Amber’s and they are always better to him. Dorothy is better to him. Sal is better to him. Ethan is better to him. Amber is just abusive trash and she should fuck off before she fucks up his life anymore than she already has.

        11. Fart Captor

          Spencer: are you doing okay?

          The last time you were this hard on Amber, it seemed like you were being pretty hard on yourself as well and getting into a bad headspace.

          Sorry if I’m totally off base and this ends up sounding condescending

        12. Spencer

          You aren’t. I’m sorry for causing you any stress or grief.

        13. Fart Captor

          You didn’t, I was just worried is all

      2. begbert2

        I think she’s shut him out, because she feels she cannot trust him anymore. And having been released from his presence she gladly went back to the fortress of solitude he pried her out of.

        I don’t think she’ll give him a moment’s thought. If nothing else, she has a game to win.

        1. Fart Captor

          I think you’re forgetting what sent her in there to begin with: Shame over another, previous social screw-up with Dina

          She might well be shutting him out though, but I’m pretty sure she’s the one she doesn’t think can be trusted.

        2. trlkly

          Not being able to trust him doesn’t make a lot of sense with her revelation. That was what Amazi-girl said, but both she and Amazi-girl have come to terms with the fact that how they were treating Sal was wrong.

          She means what she says. She views herself as a problem that Danny was being nice in dealing with. She’s shutting him out because she doesn’t think she deserves to be cared for the way he cares for her.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if this also happened with Ethan, which is why they lost touch for a while before they became friends again. So there’s still hope.

      3. foamy

        I’m not sure if it’s that, precisely, but from a visual story-telling p.o.v. it sure ain’t coincidence that while Danny is there Amber is out of her shell and once he leaves she goes back into it.

    4. Chris

      That’s how I feel about every comment I’ve ever made

  4. Kris

    Did he dodge a bullet?…Maybe. Will he be jealous that he can’t get in on the Mario Kart action…Definitely.

    1. AnvilPro

      ^ The real conflict.

    2. Deathjavu

      Actually that…seems like a decent way for him to somewhat non-invasively rejoin 2 people who are, at least as far as I can tell, his friends.

    3. Rodrigo

      Maybe he will be back with his nintendo DS to play with them

    4. StClair

      a Bullet Bill, maybe.

  5. lia47

    amber’d it again

  6. MatthewTheLucky

    ~ Out in the sun they study away, down here we kart all day, Danny, it’s nicer, down where it’s quieter, under the seat! ~

    1. Deanatay

      What have dey got dere, a lot of books?
      We got a dark, private one-person nook
      We live de high life, down where there’s wi-fi
      Undah da seeat!

  7. lia47

    can’t tell if alt text is to the tune of under the sea or under the boardwalk

    under the sea fits the syllables better but i think under the boardwalk makes the last line funnier for some reason

    1. Needfuldoer

      Definitely Under the Sea. The probability of banging is much too low for this to be Under the Boardwalk.

  8. Nono

    The real question: who’s Wiggler?

    1. Delicious Taffy

      Sal is Wiggler. Amber is also Wiggler.

  9. Shiro

    Agh…I hate when people say things like that. Like credit where it’s due, Danny absolutely 100% means well, and this is probably just a me thing. Like I’m not saying I’m a problem, I’m saying you are not responsible for me.

    Related: when I call myself broken and someone goes “no you’re not!” Yes, I am actually, but I’m broken in the same way those Japanese dishes with the gold repair work are broken. It’s a point of pride that I’m working on repairing myself, not a put-down.

    1. Sporky

      I feel like when Amber is saying it, she really is making the implication that she’s a “problem”. Yknow, low self esteem and all that

      1. Cerberus

        Low self-esteem is… great.

        Ironically, it’s also something Danny and Amber have in common.

    2. Jago

      To me that sentence sounds passive-agressive – but it’s subjective. We can’t hear her say it, and even then, we could hear different things. It’s interesting to see how different people perceive this scene, though.

    3. sundriedrainbow

      Similarly, I hate when I say “I’m sorry” and people respond “Why?”

      I’m expressing sympathy for your situation, not telling you I feel responsible. The imprecision of language is not my fault, dammit.

  10. Passchendaele

    I was 100% expecting Danny to danny it up and persist until Amber snapped at him, but I think he learned from the last time. I don’t know if allowing her to withdraw into her box chairs and isolate herself from the world is good, though.

    Also, this is def a non-sequitir [sic?], but have DoA Danny and Ruth met before? Should they?

    1. Lingo

      Sort of: http://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/danny+ruth/
      P.S. I’m guessing at least 3 people posted the same thing before I did.

      1. Lingo

        OK maybe not.

      2. Delicious Taffy

        Danny will forever be “Got-Dumped Guy”.

    2. foamy

      Bluntly, right now, I think Amber needs someone who doesn’t give a damn if she snaps at them and is willing to see all these defense mechanisms for what they are and stop enabling them. And maybe get a professional, but the track record of nominal professionals in this comic strip is shoddy, at best. Danny’s been dumped on for too many people for too long to take that on easily. Sal would be a great candidate, except she’s, y’know, Sal. Ethan’s a passive enabler. Mike is just no. Dorothy thinks Amazi-Girl is awesome. Dina doesn’t seem to realize Amber has problems. Ruth and Billie are both way too busy with their own issues.

      Maybe Carla? She and Amber don’t interact much though.

  11. HMRC4EVR

    Is ‘being a bongo’ an achievement? Cause Amber just unlocked it.

    1. Shiro

      How so? She very politely told him that his concern was appreciated but not needed, he persisted, she brushed him off less politely because he wasn’t taking a hint.

      1. TemporalShrew

        She was hinting that he didn’t need to worry about her, not that he should go away. You can’t really blame him for thinking he was allowed the option of a word in edgewise when the implications were hazy.

        1. Shiro

          So, I’m putting myself in Amber’s shoes. I’ve just said I’m fine, it’s cool, you don’t need to worry about me, and the person I’m talking to chooses to go into feelgood platitudes about how I (read: my mental illness) am not a problem. That’d annoy me enough to make me a wee bit snappy too.

        2. timemonkey

          Danny doesn’t even know she has a mental illness. Because she never explains herself.

        3. Leorale

          She doesn’t have the words to explain this one, though she tried explaining it in yesterday’s strip.

        4. zoelogical

          she might not know that she has a mental illness either

        5. Shiro

          Doesn’t matter, it’s still a real condescending way to talk to someone, even if you’re 100% sincere and have only the best of intentions.

        6. Kris

          There’s multiple ways to read that though.A)Amber could be saying she thinks she’s a “problem” or B)C laiming Danny think’s she’s a “problem”

          Option A. Is sad for Amber and you’d be right in Danny being well meaning but somewhat condescending.

          Option B) She’s also claiming Danny sees her as a “problem” which is rude on her part and Danny’s clarifying he doesn’t see her that way (which he never did) and Amber just trivialized and dismissed that. Also rude.

          Or surprise option C) It’s a bit of both and people are complicated!

        7. Kris

          Ugh. This is just sloppy. I really need to start triple checking my DoA comments.

        8. A guy

          It doesn’t seem condescending to me. There’s a difference between saying “I don’t think you have a problem” and “I don’t think you as a problem”. I’d understand getting snappy at someone if they said the former, but what Danny said is more like correcting her idea of how he views her.

        9. trlkly

          You are interpreting it that way, but there’s nothing inherently condescending about it. I cannot at all imagine Danny saying it in a way that would sounds condescending.

          If anything, it’s an echo of what has happened before, when Amber told Danny not to say bad things about himself. And when he pointed out she should follow her own advice, and not put herself down.

          I’d argue that putting yourself in someone else’s position is not quite the right way to look at things. If you’re gonna do that, you have to put yourself in the mindset of the other person, with all the information you have about how they think.

          And, well, we know that Amber does actually have a lot of self-hatred. And we know that Amber doesn’t think Danny is a jerk. Amazi-girl did, but then she got schooled at the rally, finding out that talking to Sal is not so bad after all.

        10. thejeff

          Yeah, very much not how I read this strip. More like she sees him as just feeling obligated to check up on her and him actually wanting to see her and work out some kind of friendship. Then her realizing she just screwed it up again and retreating into her shell.

    2. Sporky

      ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED – 10G – “I’ve Got Rhythm!”

      Play the bongos so well you become a bongo

  12. Dean

    AND SHE WAS NEVER SEEN AGAIN.

  13. Fart Captor

    Aww 🙁

    Get out of those chairs and go after him!

    1. Spaz

      Alternative: Keep playing and kick Sal’s ass.

    2. Power Stranger

      (im sorry i don’t know where else to post this but i replied to our convo in yesterday’s comment section :>)

  14. Stephen Bierce

    ♪ Dead Man’s Curve ain’t no place to play
    Dead Man’s Curve–you best stay away
    Dead Man’s Curve–even heroes say
    Ya Won’t Come Back From DEAD MAN’S CURVE!     ♪

  15. Tacos

    I don’t know why I find the last two panels so funny.

  16. Sarah-2

    Ugh I hate Amber so much

    1. Fart Captor

      Well, so does Amber. So I guess nobody gets to be happy.

    2. zoelogical

      why did you feel the need to say this

      1. sundriedrainbow

        People are allowed to express their feelings about the comic strip without them being unrelentingly positive.

        1. trlkly

          But they didn’t. They didn’t talk about the comic at all. They said they hate one of the characters. And that character is not being portrayed as hate-worthy.

          If you can hate Amber, then you can hate anyone who gets into the same situation as Amber, and hatred in real life is just not good. Save it for evil people, not us mentally ill people.

        2. trlkly

          Also, both you and they are being jerks.

        3. Spencer

          Oh fucking knock it off. It’s a comic you knob.

        4. zoelogical

          yeah, but a comment like that just makes people who like Amber or identify with her feel like crap, and it doesn’t contribute anything to existing conversations. like. ok. you hate someone who is struggling with a bunch of mental issues. congratulations. what does that benefit anybody

          like. her story is clearly being told for a purpose. even if you hate amber, if you miss out on her story you miss out on one of the central parts of Dumbing of Age. it’s here for a reason, just like everything else is here for a reason. i don’t object to people hating Amber. i just don’t think this is the appropriate forum to vent that emotion.

          …i mean, i definitely could’ve been a lot more diplomatic about my wording – the way i said that put a ton of pressure to live up to my personal standards on somebody who ostensibly came here to vent, now that i’ve thought harder and i’m not in that reacting place – but i don’t think the base question is invalid.

    3. 3oranges

      Where do you get your dinosaur DNA, then?

  17. zoelogical

    don’t auto-cannibalism, amber

  18. Kris

    I really hope this leads to Danny maybe not caring so much about Amber’s feelings.

    1. Leorale

      I suspect Danny will always care about everyone’s feelings.

      1. inqntrol

        And will try to help them if they have a problem.

        1. Needfuldoer

          And completely Danny things up in the process.

  19. Danieleon

    I wonder if Danny is going to finally grow some self esteem at last

    1. zoelogical

      what’s self-esteem. is it a mold

      1. MatthewTheLucky

        yes, but it’s more correctly a lichen, since it has a protist component

        1. zoelogical

          my god. i hope it’s optically enhancing

        2. StClair

          (I love this comment.)

        3. Cerberus

          Eee, shout out to the Protist Kingdom, the “miscellaneous” bin of Life.

        4. Frederic Garber

          You can’t lichen other people until you learn to lichen yourself

  20. Larkle

    </3

  21. L!ghtn!ng

    Oh man, this one just makes me sad for them both. ;_;

    1. Kris

      Don’t be sad. I think they’ll both be in better places eventually.

      1. Marika Oniki

        So Willis can break them in new, more exciting ways! :V

  22. Dara

    Never really thought of those karts as running on turtle soup, but it would explain where all those shells come from. XD

    1. JessWitt

      Dark.

  23. Bagge

    Ouch

  24. Keulan

    I can understand not wanting any interruptions while playing video games, but Amber really seems to be driving away someone who actually cares about her as a person.

    1. zoelogical

      yes but this is part of her mental illness

      doesn’t mean they cant ever interact again; it just means right now isn’t a good time for them to interact

      1. Delicious Taffy

        “Not now, Daniel.”

        1. zoelogical

          yup! because sometimes people can’t solve all their issues in the space of one conversation

      2. thejeff

        Maybe, but pushing away someone like that, if done often enough, can easily lead to them not continuing to try. Obviously Danny’s not wanted, so why should he keep bothering her?
        Obviously Danny doesn’t want to be friends anymore, since he stopped trying to talk with her. For the best of course, Amber’s horrible and doesn’t deserve friends.

        1. zoelogical

          yeaaah i mean that is an eventual cost of this type of interaction but like. sometimes people don’t have spoons. this is a valid expression of where Amber is right now, which Sucks, but sometimes the only way to figure out that what you are doing sucks is to do it. like. not everything’s a straight path, sometimes it’s just slowly shoveling your way out of the gunk.

          if Amber wants to reach out, she’s going to have to push herself to try, and she’s going to have to keep trying, and she’s going to have to take those opportunities when she gets them as genuine opportunities. and none of that is easy, because the things that trouble her the most aren’t pleasant conversation material.

          and i mean like everybody’s human and it can be really easy to bond through the places where you’re human and flawed, but not everybody can readily empathize with something like DID or the abuse Amber’s dad put her through. she doesn’t owe anybody a happy backstory, but… happy backstories are easier than hers are.

          i mean like it’s a huge tangle of junk. it’s her dad’s abuse leading to her isolating leading to her coping mechanisms which lead to her isolation which leads to her self-hate which leads to her isolation which leads to her social etiquette ignorance which leads to her – welp. et cetera.

          but like one interaction doesn’t have to break the relationship. it’s just them being in different places i feel like

        2. comic.phile

          Not having spoons is not an excuse to treat people shittily. (Take it from someone who was very ill and bedridden from 17-22.)

        3. zoelogical

          i mean like this was not cool but i don’t think it was over the top shitty

        4. zoelogical

          idk like. yeah she’s making this about her own self-hate instead of engaging with Danny’s actual emotions but her self-hate is a very real problem and a part of her mental situation. i mean. it’s not great but it’s more indicative of the bad place that she’s in than, like, any real intent to hurt. which is mostly how i define shitty behavior.

        5. thejeff

          It’s not an excuse, but it is a reason. If you can’t do it, you can’t do it. That’s what the whole spoons metaphor is about. If you don’t have the spoons left, you can’t do it – which is why you need to pace yourself and ration them out so you have enough to do what needs to get done.

  25. Spaz

    You know what would be neat? If someone set up an index of DoA comment sections, by topic, based on the prevailing threads in the comment section. I’d do it but I don’t think I have the time.

    Comic X to X+Y deals with asexuality
    Comics XX deal with abuse by a parent (I’m thinking Blaine and Sir here)
    Comics XX deal with transexuality
    Comics XX deal with alcoholism
    Comics YY and ZZ are just about butts. Jeph Jacques infected the comments section for a few days.

    it feel like it would be a good resource.

    dunno.

    just based off the last month of really dealing with a lot of really heavy, important issues.

    If you’ll excuse me, I have….a little over 3 hours before I go to my new cleaning job, I’m gonna be going through Dina tags to see if there’s any big deep dives into Asperger’s that maybe I can learn a bit more about myself from.

    1. Spaz

      Oop, should have included DID in there because of the last few days.

      Also the whole coming out as gay thing we had with Becky, the abuse of power dynamic discussions (re: Ruth/Billie), the Robin/Leslie creep factors…..THERE ARE TOO MANY GREAT DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN HAD TO LIST HERE.

      And there should probably be WARNING: MARY in some places. 😛

      1. Chris

        WARNING: *sirens sound* SARCASM CONTAINED INSIDE

    2. Cerberus

      That would be really cool. A lot of work, but really cool.

    3. zoelogical

      this would be a work of labor and of love and of time-consuming meticulousness

    4. thejeff

      Even just an extracted searchable archive would be great. It’s easy to find things in the comic, thanks to the tags. I’ve gone looking for old comments on occasion and it’s a pain to try to find anything.

  26. Cerberus

    Comic Reactions:

    Panel 1: Oof, so many steps forward, but that self-esteem is a steep fucking climb. And I’m not sure Amber is able to fully accept that Danny considers Amber his friend and not just as a connection point to Amazi-girl.

    I dunno, the Amber alter from my experiences seems to be on a good trajectory or at least a similar one to what eventually ended up working for me, but yeah, after so many years and so much BS from her father and AG, it’s going to be really hard for her to fully internalize the idea that she has worth and value on her own and that people actively do like her for her and not just the “cool” superhero alter she shares meatspace with.

    Panel 2: I feel so bad for Danny here, because well… I’ve been the Amber and I’ve been the Danny in these situations a lot (I have shit for self-esteem and the majority of folks I’ve dated also have series problems with believing in their inherent value and worth). And it sucks being on either end, but especially the Danny end, because well, self-hatred has had its say and it’s so hard to push through that and have it feel real and not just a sweet yet horribly mistaken affectation.

    And also because I get why Amber is shutting down. She’s a heavy introvert and this is the type of conversation that is very new and very uncomfortable for her. Like she’s only just starting to test out the idea that her feelings have worth and AG isn’t always right, she’s not quite ready to believe she’s not a burden on others or that she’s worth hanging out with in person in her own right.

    Plus, well, other people can be super draining. There’s a whole performative aspect to dealing with them when you’re a heavy introvert with mental health stuff going on. So I don’t blame Amber for shutting down.

    But I feel bad for Danny because he’s not someone who’s been around the block for years with folks with severe self-esteem issues and it’s clear in this panel and the following ones that he’s likely taking Amber’s shut down somewhat personally.

    And well, he really shouldn’t. But it’s so human for him to do so anyways.

    *filled with intense urge to protect and hug the Danny*

    1. boop

      having people tell you that either 1) you don’t feel about them the way you SAY you feel about them, or 2) you’re wrong to have a high opinion of them i.e. you have bad judgement – well, it either feels like being accused of lying or told you’re stupid. which. really sucks.

      on the other hand, being depressed or dealing with internalised phobias/stigmas that apply to yourself – of course it messes with your perception of yourself. and it’s not really your job to pretend you believe the not-depressed person’s opinion just so they won’t feel sad.

      i know for me, having people i trust tell me that i had worth – it was the only thing that made it possible for ME to start believing i had worth. and also – it was important for me to accept that i am broken/sick/crazy, but that it doesn’t make me a bad person, doesn’t mean nobody could like me, and doesn’t diminish my inherent value as a human being.

      so. part of me says ‘it’s important to be able to claim your brokenness, even when it makes others around you uncomfortable because oh no thinking you’re broken MUST mean you hate yourself’. but part of me says ‘that’s different from assuming people only care about you because you’re their problem’. noooo amber. bad cognitive habit. i mean, if you had some evidence danny was acting out of obligation or something, fine, but. that conclusion doesn’t seem to match the evidence? bluuuhhhh.

      all that aside amber must be running on fumes right now for social interaction. it totally makes sense for her to disengage from potential heavily-emotional conversation about how SHE is totally wrong for having a low opinion (no less hackles-raising than hearing you’re wrong for having a high opinion)

      1. Cerberus

        Oh, yeah, I know it sucks, which makes me feel worse when depression is making me the Amber in the situation, but it’s really hard to accept in that state.

        I dunno, at this point, most of the folks I date are pretty used to the fact that occasionally I’ll put myself down and not fully be able to internalize nice things said about me. In return, I try to always not take it personally when someone I love doesn’t believe me about the wonderfulness I’m seeing in them.

        Me and my fiancee have a lot of in-jokes about how we each think the world of each other while having such utterly shit views of ourselves. We’re both working hard to try and believe and see what the other is seeing in us.

        1. Halpful

          yeah… self-worth is Hard. ridiculously hard.

          but you did a pretty awesome job of communicating in the OSDD-1 thread. 🙂

          now, I need to get some sleep. sleeeeep. not comments. sleeeeeeep

      2. nightsbridge

        Hm . . . I sincerely do not understand why this makes people mad? It’s like, when a depressed person is saying stuff like that, about how they don’t deserve to be cared for, they’re not saying anything about the other person? It’s not a statement of ‘I don’t trust you.’

        You literally do not think that you’re worth their time. You think you’re pond scum, you think you’re a parasite, you think you don’t deserve their time, you think you’re objectively a terrible human being.

        How much you trust or don’t trust them is just never part of the equation in the first place. It’s clearly not a good thing, and Amber should work to stop it, yes. It can be super draining on people, yes. But I don’t get how people can run into someone who has a terrible opinion of themselves and take that to imply that they’re lying.

        1. trlkly

          Because the depressed person is saying they are lying. When someone says X, and you say they really mean Y, you are saying they are lying.

          Yes, as you say, this accusation comes from the depression. They feel so bad about themselves and think other people hate them so much that anyone saying otherwise is assumed to be lying.

          But that doesn’t make it not an accusation, and, if you’re not fully aware of what depression can do, you can assume it’s how the person really feels. And even if you know intellectually that it’s the illness causing the problem, that doesn’t make it not hurt your feelings. Feelings are seldom rational.

          There’s a reason why it can be very hard to be around a depressed person, even knowing they need you to be there for them. You know it’s the depression, but your feelings and self-worth don’t.

        2. nightsbridge

          Speaking as someone who has been that person; it’s not an accusation. It’s friggin hard. They are living in a world where it is not possible that the things you are saying are true, so therefore, you have fooled yourself into thinking we’re okay, or we have, in our manipulative, self-pitying malice, snared you into thinking we’re a good person worth your time. Quick, make it clear that you’re awful . . . no, they still care, my web of deceit is so insidious, I can’t even sabotage it deliberately . . .

          And that’s hard fro a person to through, on the receiving end, and some depressed people DO think everyone who says something like that is lying to them. But I’m sorry, if you talk to a depressed person and they talk about how much they’re awful, and when you say no they don’t immediately accept it, and you take that as a accusation of you?

          In my opinion, that’s an issue with your ego. Not their depression.

        3. Greenygal

          But people don’t come with signs attached saying “this is the depressive mindset that caused me to say that, it’s not a reflection on you.” You asked why other people would get mad about that reaction, and one of the reasons is that people aren’t mindreaders and don’t necessarily understand the state of mind it’s coming from.

          And again, like trlkly said, feelings aren’t rational. If I tell someone that I really care about them, and they say I don’t mean it, then even if I really do understand the emotional place it’s coming from, I’m still going to have an emotional reaction to being told that someone else knows my feelings better than I do, because I’m not a robot. I can work to manage that reaction, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to have it.

        4. Oz

          I think you’re ignoring a big part of the issue, nightsbride, that is, the person with low self worth doesn’t only say “I’m trash and you’re wrong for thinking otherwise” but also sometimes “you don’t really like me, you too think I’m trash and what you said about me not being trash is you trying to make me feel good, a white lie”.

          As someone who has been on both sides of this conversation, I have to say, it’s hard. When my opinion of myself is really low, and someone tries to contradict that opinion, my first reaction is one of those two: either that person’s opinion is worthless to me (probably because I think they have no idea what they’re talking about) or they are saying things they don’t believe. In my need to believe my own worthlessness, I end up losing my respect for other people’s opinions. After all, what do they know? And if I do respect them, I conclude that they must be lying. After all, such an intelligent person couldn’t possibly believe something so wrong.

          I refrain from expressing those thoughts too much, and force myself to believe people. When it’s other people who are down in the low self-esteem pit, more often than not they treat me like this – either implying I can’t possibly know what it’s like, or dismissing what I say with “you don’t have to say those things — I’m not fishing for compliments” and the like. That hurts. I remind myself that those ppl are in a bad place, but in any other context that kind of dismissal would be insulting. In best case scenarios, ppl with more self-awareness will say “look, I know you mean well but I won’t believe you so stop”. I guess it takes a lot of energy to say that. I myself can only bring myself to stay quiet instead of pushing people away.

          I mean, maybe you are not the kind of person who starts believing that people are lying to you when you’re in a bad place, but I am this kind of person, and a lot of my friends are like that too, and we know that it hurts.

    2. zoelogical

      the danny is a very particular kind of pokemon that can only be caught with the power of love and sharing

      …and pokeballs

      but yeah as awkward as it is it is probably a good thing this interaction didn’t last very long because it gives danny the time to process what he’s heard and think about it. amber’s probably not going to think much about it but danny will

  27. Chris

    I was about to comment something amazing but I forgot what it was…

    …

    ……

    …Give me a few hours

    1. zoelogical

      -sparkles emoji-

      this comment is now diamonds

      1. Chris

        ?????

      2. Danni

        look there, now here, now there, amon a horse

        1. JessWitt

          Moo.

    2. Chris

      …Still not coming to me…

      ….

      …Dammit…

  28. Power Stranger

    Another episode of “Amber please confront your problems it literally hurts my soul”, another dollar.

  29. 0kami

    Honestly, at first glance to the NSFW Slipshine teaser, I thought,

    WHAT? RED AND GREEN! DOES THIS MEAN?!? OMG, ARE YOU SERIO-

    Oh. It’s Ruth… and Billie (I assume). I thought our other favorite red head was…

    Well then. Carry on then.

    1. Spaz

      also as a snarky aside to what someone said about the WttFZ thing being distracting all week:

      I KNOW! I have t scroll down even farther to reach the comments section

      #justacethings

  30. Yotomoe

    Take the hint. Stop trying Danny. She’s not worth hurting yourself over.

    1. Spencer

      People like Amber generally aren’t, no.

  31. Carms

    K this actually seems SUPER OMINOUS? No?

  32. Power Stranger

    QUICKLY, TO THE SELF-DESTRUCTION CAVE.

    1. Danni

      *batman theme*

      1. StClair

        *whirling logo*

        BIFF
        POW
        THUD

        1. Power Stranger

          HIDE
          DEFLECT
          DON’T-FACE-MY-OWN-PROBLEMS

  33. Spaz

    so this may be random, but I’m a writer and I’m considering adding a “Quilting Club” to my writings. In reality it’s basically a covert LGBT+ meetup for people who aren’t out yet, and the keyword that brings people in is “Bring your own quiltbag.”

    This obviously being a play on the alternative to the LGBT+ alphabet soup that is QUILTBAG

    what do you guys think?

    1. BBCC

      Depends – what’s the story about?

      Though tbh, a story about an LGBTQIAPN+ group using a quilting circle as a cover while they address the needs of their respective communities is a story I would watch/read the hell out of, now that I think about it.

      1. Spaz

        Quite honestly it may or may not end up the focus of the story I’m thinking of writing right now. Which was originally envisioned as a lovechild of Rick Riordan’s “the old gods are real” and the Dresden Files…..now, more recently, with a healthy dose of Mercedes Thompson-esque Fae mixed in.

        Except with a lot more old-school mythology thrown in. Everything from Santa being the Queen of the Winter Court (with Krampus being the jolly old elf from the stories we know) of Elfs, to some Underhill mythology with the fairly standard, “steal-your-children, exploit-any-loophole seduce-with-food/song/dance/music” elves of pre-Tolkien mythos….a Ragnarok-prepping/planning Hela of the Norse Pantheon with a hate boner against Odin…..

        (elfs=Winter Court, Elves=Summer, with nary a Tolkien hippy elf in sight)

        Oh, and the Egyptian Goddess of Cats, Bastet, rising back to prominence with the rise of the Internet (because cats+internet), also Hathor (sex, drugs, rock and roll, and pornography), Set (chaos/free will and internet trolls), and Seshat (very obscure Egyptian goddess of libraries–and what is the internet but one giant library? Also I love books).

        All of this included with 1990’s Disney Gargoyles-inspired Kingdom of Avalon as the final major magical power. With Arthurian mythology tied very carefully to every single faction.

        Namely, Morgana la Fae is the daughter of Oberon and Titania, and falls in love with Merlin. She binds her life force to Merlin to prevent Oberon from killing him just to “remove the distraction.” Oberon responds by bringing in Arthur Pendragon to seduce Morgana, but Arthur, Merlin, and Morgana instead become best buds and have awesome adventures.

        Right up until roughly 641 AD, at which point their adventures take them to Egypt, and because reasons Arthur and the Egyptian sun god Ra, leader of the Egyptian Pantheon, both die in the battle of Heliopolis (Arabin invasion of Byzantine Egypt), splitting the Egyptian Pantheon in two……Might I just add that in my research for my writing I have fallen in love with the Coptic people group on general principle, even if I have never actually met one?

        ….but for Hela doomsday-prep reasons she saves Arthur (and for non-Hela reasons Arthur eventually gets pissed off at Morgana/Merlin and doesn’t like them anymore), and in modern times Arthur is basically her number two and is set up to take over if anything ever happens to her.

        And that’s just all world-building and background. I haven’t even touched in where the Fae (a catch-all terms for all magical creatures) came from, the fall of Atlantis, or lots of other cool stuff. Let alone Set being aware of being a character in a book, hating it, and doing EVERYTHING HE CAN to upset the plot.

        I kinda made a monster in that one. I wanted a character like that, and now I have zero control over him.

        It’s kind of awesome.

        The major story takes place at what I’ve been calling the Perakis Estate, which is basically where people who fall through the cracks in society end up. Which, thanks to our society’s awful track record with the QUILTBAG community, would be disproportionately LGBT+, in addition to refugees, homeless, runaways, etc.

        But even in this setting where there would be lots of openly alphabet soupers (‘scuse me, Alphabet Supers), I would imagine that a Quilting Club could have a decent group amongst those who aren’t necessarily comfortable coming out.

        …….does any of that sound interesting?

        1. Spaz

          Plus Caliburn and Excalibur are both made out of Orichalcum, which was only found/made???? on Atlantis before it Fell. And now Hela has the only stockpile, because she is just biding her time until she can unleash Ragnarok.

          At which time the heroes, weapons, machinery (At least two aircraft carrier battle groups and a few nukes), magics, and metric shit-tons of powdered iron (basically the Faeric equivalent of chemical warfare) will be unleashed and……basically it’s the apocalypse.

          Orichalcum being kinda a super-metal that is as strong as steel (maybe?) and conducts magic extremely well.

        2. Spaz

          One last note and I’ll leave this be–the reason she doesn’t confront Odin et al directly right now is because she literally doesn’t have the personal power to do it. Buuuuuut a few millennia of stockpiling the most powerful weapons, warriors, technology, and magic does quite a bit to even those odds.

        3. Rukduk

          I have only one question for you…did you include an Uruk-Hai/Tolkien-style Orc race within the fae? If yes, I will plunge in wholeheartedly. If no…well, I’ll still dive in but my running start will be a little slower (I really like Tolkien-style Orcs, especially the Isengard Uruk-Hai of the movies).

        4. Rukduk

          I mean, there is a Latin god of the underworld (not to be confused with Pluto) known as Orcus, so he could probably function as a minor lieutenant of Hela with his offspring being involved and called something like “Orcini” or “Orci Filiorum (Sons of Orcus)”. Or they could be the “orcneas” of Beowulf who are mentioned as being kindred to the “ylfneas” (elves) and “eottenas” (giants) and could be anything from underworld demons to living corpses to ghouls (no one really knows what orcneas means). Sorry, just really like non-Warcraft and non-Warhammer Orcs. Oh, what about the Fomoreans of Irish mythology? Will they be involved at all?

        5. Spaz

          The Latin gods and the Norse gods have their own beefs.

          The gods are generally arranged by Pantheons. Within the PAntheons, there’s politics, etc. But no matter how much the folks within a Pantheon hate each other, they all stand together when an outside force insults or attacks anyone else within the Pantheon.

          As for Fomoreans, I haven’t really looked as deeply into Irish mythology as I want to. Yet. It’s fascinating from what I’ve read on a surface level, but I do want to dig into it deeper.

          also at one point I wanted to have sky pirates, with immortal pirates like Grace O’Malley, Anne Bonny, Jeane de Clisson, and Koxinga forming the backbone of a group called the Lemurian Privateers.

          OH, and music magic. inspired by Lindsey Stirling’s Roundtable Rival music video. Basically using music to create magic.

          …….I may have insterted a character named Linnea Sterling directly inspired by that music video, who wields *THE* Fiddle of Gold.

          I have a lot of fun writing. >.>

        6. Spaz

          within their traditional pantheons*

          There’s almost no crossover whatsoever (except for between Greek/Latin pantheons).

          So, no mixing.

          This does have the side effect of having squabbles between pantheons regarding the dead. Specifically between the death gods. Sometimes even within pantheons (see: Odin/Freyja and Hela).

          That said, the Pantheons all (usually) stand together against outside foes, which is why the Courts or the Avalonians haven’t wiped them out piecemeal.

          Same goes for the Courts. Summer and Winter may squabble and bicker and war, but they will close ranks if an outsider comes at them.

        7. Rukduk

          Irish mythology has a few very interesting tidbits, including the Morrigan (essentially the Gaelic hybrid version of Athena and the Furies), the Triad of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, the Sidhe (weird slightly demonic/dark fae), the Fomoreans (essentially, from what I can tell weird giant beastmam raiders), and heroes like Cu Chalaine (there are a lot of ways of spelling his name) who is essentially an Irish berserker whose blood and body get so hot when he activates his rage and increased strength, he scalds people who touch him and bursts barrels of water he’s placed in into water and steam in a giant pressure explosion. Plus Druids and a lot of poetry. Another old Celtic god (who never got to Ireland unfortunately) was Sirona, goddess of healing, springs, rivers, spiritual purification, and rebirth, heavily associated with snakes, eggs, and streams. Sorry, kinda just wanted to see if any of my little tidbits of knowledge could help inspire ideas.

        8. Spaz

          The Morrigan is sort of already implemented. I am aware of her and a big fan of her, actually. In my stories I’ve written so far, she has yet to show up. however, her greatest creation, The Lorelei, HAS appeared. Basically The Lorelei (or just Lorelei) is a super-powered version of the Greek sirens.

          She…..also plays a rather interesting and unique place in my mythology. She is the High Promethean, leader of a group of Fae dedicated to teaching magic to humanity. They trace their group’s ankcestry directly back to the Titan Prometheus, who was punished for giving humanity fire (and in my writing, their first taste of magic) in the days of Atlantis. They’re hunted down and most Prometheans have a lifespan of less than twenty years, but they’ve never been fully wiped out.

          There is a lot of Celtic/Gaelic/Irish stuff I want to look more into, but I just haven’t had time to dig into things sufficiently to make sure I do them justice.

        9. Spaz

          plus within the last 100 years or so Lorelei came up with an entirely original branch of magic, and made sure humans learned it. Namely, music magic.

        10. Spaz

          No. I do not have Orcs. because Orcs originated in Tolkien’s works as corrupted elves. And I do not have Tolkien elves.

          However I do have Goblins, which are basically Summer elves that have been banished from the Underhill for doing something that upset the Elf King of Summer.

          and proper Hob-Goblins (which are basically brownie-type beings tied to specific places). IE not “goblins, but bigger”

          Honestly, I’m doing everything I can to distance myself from Tolkien-style fantasy. Because that’s what everyone is doing, and while it’s interesting in some cases it is definitely not what I want to write about. And I prefer the old-school mythology over the “Everything must be written like Tolkien” that has become fairly standard in the last half-century.

          I’m also not using werewolves or vampires that much. That said, lerianthropes do have their place (other weres. weremoose, weremice, etc. werercapybaras will probably be my favorite tbh) and are actually fairly fleshed out as a concept in my writing (specifically as first responders and EMTs for the most part), and vampires….well, I prefer the Sanctuary (Amanda Tapping show) route. Where they’re an entirely different species, and you don’t get made one by two-way blood transfer.

          I want my book to stand out from the werewolf/vampire/human love triangles with Tolkien-ish hippy pretty elves peering in through the windows.

        11. Rukduk

          Ok, still sounds rad though. Also, I’m now thinking of werebadgers for some reason. Like, those would be pretty damn scary and dangerous. Plus, werebears, berserkers, and berserkers=werebears are a little overdone as well, even if berserkers are supposed to be blessed by Odin. Also, werejaguars are an often little remembered tidbit of Mesoamerican mythology, so those guys appearing in some form would be cool. Or Wendigos. Cause, well, Wendigos.

        12. Spaz

          werehoney badger don’t care. werehoney badger don’t give a shit.

          But yeah, there’s so much unexplored territory out there in the lerianthrope area. Okay, fine, werewolves. What about other weres?

          I do want to do something with pre-Columbian mythology, but there I’m going very slowly and VERY carefully (just like I’m doing with other mythos that I’m trying to research) because I want to be respectful and I do not want to get it wrong.

          ….also because I’ve become fascinated with pre-Columbian culture–mostly Incan but also everything else across the board. Such an interesting culture. What I wouldn’t give to be able to read khopas.

          …..I seem to remember hearing something about a Dire Weremoose once on some RPG website, and that sounded both hilarious and terrifying.

          ….gotta get ready for work. I’ll be back in a few hours to respond to anything else.

        13. Rukduk

          @Spaz, well Wendigos are a creature from Algonquin native myth. They’re semi-material semi-spiritual beings who are emaciated and consumed by a hunger for human flesh. However, every time they feed they immediately increase in size, leaving their hunger not only unsatiated but even greater and more painful than before. One of the more traditional ways of depicting a Wendigo is a large, nearly skeletal humanoid creature with blueish grey colored skin, walking on all fours with claws on hands and feet, with their head covered by the skull of a deer. They’re actually created when a human engages in cannibalism, which allows the spirit of the Wendigo to enter and possess said human’s body. Destroying the body will merely force the spirit to find a new host.

        14. BBCC

          I……………………
          Be still my mythology and folklore loving, history majoring heart. All that and a cast with a lot of LGBT+ folks?

          Where do I sign?

        15. Spaz

          I don’t know about signing, but I tend to post when I write (probably because of my Pokemon fan-fiction forum writing background), and I have a facebook group I made specifically so others could find it/it doesn’t get lost in my wall.

          It….jumps around quite a bit, and a lot of stuff isn’t explained (because it’s in my head, and I want to write a novel, and stuff would be further explained elsewhere)……

          and a lot of the stuff on the page is eithier world-building or story fragments.

          if you want to see the most recent batch of contiguous writing, click on mah new link, scroll down to….December 17, 2016, and start with “So it Begins”

          Then scroll up to “The Great and Venerable House of Nick” which explains the origin of the two-court elf/elvish system. Above that is “A Pair of Apocalypses by Breakfast,” then “Famine,” and finally “Miss Demeanor.”

          Miss Demeanor is probably my favorite chapter of that, because, well…….this story fragment (that may or may not have bene abandoned, not sure yet. may re-use it or pick it back up again or rewrite it I’m not sure) deals with Helena Handbasket DeSire (pronounced like desire), the product of a one-off joke between Set, Egyptian god of chaos and free will, and Puck–yes, THAT Puck. She’s the main character.

          I wrote it just to hae fun without being mindful of what I was writing, and before I realizd what had happened, here was a woman with two dads, who used to date (a quite frankly terrifying) female death goddess, in charge of a place that’s a refuge for all kinds of LGBT, and other folks.

          I didn’t plan it, but that’s how it worked out.

          Right now it does n’t have a lot of LGBT+ folks in the cast, aside from an ace here or there, because I don’t get out much and aside from being asexual I don’t get out much and interact with straight-type folks. Or, at least, the presenting straight folks since I’ve grown up in a very conservative background.

          But I’m doing research and want to make sure I get things right. And I am going to be making more of an effort to be inclusive.

          …….doesn’t mean I’m going to lower the number of bad-ass women (who seem to take up 80% of the character slots), just means maybe a lot more of ’em aren’t straight/etc.

        16. Spaz

          Helena Handbasket DeSire* is probably my favorite character.

          Miss Demanor is……different.

        17. Spaz

          *get out and interact with LGBT-type folks, darn it

          Well, I don’t get out and interact with anyone, but my family’s social circles tend to be fairly straight or straight-presenting.

    2. Danni

      a quilting club! what better way to sew the bonds of friendship!

    3. Cerberus

      My pun loving heart loves it!

      1. Spaz

        Cerb, if you like puns, then you’ve gotta read a book called “Bustin'” by Minda Webber.

        It has a pun roughly every…….three words. I think it’s a fun read, even if it turned into a hyper-sexualized thing midway through, but it’s punny and worth at least a perusal.

        And yes, the title is a knock-off of Ghostbusters. a lawsuit-safe paranormalbusting operation.

        I found it at my library and every time I look at the cover I either belt out (or just do it in my head) “Bustin’ makes me feel good!”

    4. Derek

      I got tarred and feathered on tumblr for using the world QUILTBAG to refer to the queer community, but that might be an insular thing to exclusionist groups. tumblr be odd

      1. Yumi

        This is funny to me because I’ve seen people be roasted on Tumblr for referring to it as “the queer community.”

        Of course, Tumblr is really made up of lots of people with lots of different ideas on basically everything, so… you know. That happens.

        1. Cerberus

          Yeah, the AERFS tend to be out in force on that shit. 🙁

        2. BBCC

          Out of curiosity, what would the “U” stand for in that scenario? “Uncertain/Undetermined” maybe? As an alternative to Questioning?

        3. Rukduk

          I read it as “universal” being used instead “pansexual”. But “unknown” or “undefined” or “unlabeled” could also be there as words people use to describe themselves if they are unsure. Then again, I intially read the “Q” as standing for “questioning” because (thanks to bullying targetting both myself for my “girly” looks when I was younger and individual members of my social clique for being LGBT) I still associate the word “queer” with being a derogatory term for non-heteronormative people instead of as an identity that people hold. Its only been recently that I’ve found out some people are ok with using “queer” to describe themselves. I’m…still a little uncomfortable using it though, and tend to avoid saying it if I can.

        4. BBCC

          Yeah, I get that. I only use it with regards to people using that for their sexual or romantic orientation for that reason.

        5. Jhon

          AERFS? What? Uglier than TERFS? You are speaking a tongue I do not know.
          (google has failed me)

        6. Jhon

          I will make a wild guess (don’t hurt me) that this means Asexual-Exclusionary Radical Feminists. Who are allies of the TERFS when savaging the How Dare They Call Themselves People.

        7. BBCC

          Pretty much.

        8. Cerberus

          Yup. Basically a crowd of TERFs noticed ace people existing and so have gone on a holy crusade to kick us out of the general queer community.

          One of their bugaboos is attacking folks for using queer under the auspice that it’s a “slur”* so that they can claim their dog piles against ace folks is “fighting back against cishet slurs.

          *I’m sure it’s a coincidence that the word they are trying to attack is one most used by bi/pan folks, ace folks, and trans folks, the three groups TERFs hate the most.

          I’ve also seen REGs (reactionary exclusionary gatekeepers) to describe the general -ERF groups.

        9. Cerberus

          And looking up at Rukduk’s comment, I don’t want to discount that other folks may have genuine reasons for really not liking the word and having experiences of it being used to try and hurt folks.

          It’s just this group has been using that excuse in order to sell their idea that ace people are all cishets trying to infiltrate the general queer community and fill it with “homophobia”.

        10. Fart Captor

          Like TERFs, but Ace-Exclusionary instead. They’re not playing with a full deck

        11. Fart Captor

          On second thought, ace puns are a ball I probably shouldn’t be playing with. Sorry.

    5. Jhon

      Be ready for those who arrive with bags full of quilt pieces/knitting/crochet.
      I will observe your future career with interest!

    6. Chris

      A fellow writer!

  34. newllend(henryvolt)

    Ok, consistently pushing him away now fine, atleast you tried Danny.

  35. JessWitt

    It’s for the best that Danny left when she didn’t want him there.

    But he could seek other people to help Amber, like the campus clinicians.

  36. Danni

    is danny going to be alright?

  37. BenRG

    There is a lot of symbolism in this strip. Most importantly, in Amber closing up her ‘shield’ of the two chairs. She’s not coming out of her protective shell of self-isolation any time soon. She simply isn’t ready.

    I’m also taking the alt-text as Willis’s confirmation that there isn’t going to be a second run at Danny/Amber. When she’s made a decision, she sticks with it – over is over; dumped is dumped and she doesn’t go back on her decisions.

  38. C.

    Willis wrote some interesting posts today.

    Is Amber DID: http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/159962485017/this-is-probably-too-much-like-is-dina-on-the

    Unused ideas for DoA: http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/159961529572/your-mention-of-joyce-having-snkrs-in-her-dorm-got

    1. Cerberus

      Interesting. So basically Amber’s dissociative-spec identity is in the same Schrodinger’s space as Alex being the same teacher.

      And it’s cool to see that his hesitation on triggering making it canon reflects the fears FactsMatter and ZombieFlamingo had of reinforcing the idea of mentally ill people being violent (though I still feel that ship got sailed a long time ago considering at the very least she has anxiety and PTSD, so, she was always going to be struggling/fearful of violence and mentally ill)*.

      *And well, doing dumb things because you’re so scared that you’ll become the violent monster everyone says you’ll become is something that resonates very close to home for me growing up with DID. Cause like that message is fucking everywhere.

      Also, given my background it’s probably worth noting that I’m not the individual he’s citing in that post as I’ve not yet gotten the chance to meet Willis in public.

    2. Spencer

      Oh wow I asked those forever ago. I did not know tumblr asked were saved that long.

      I’m glad we could hear some more on Amber having DID.

      1. Spencer

        tumblr asks*

        Also, omg you were going to kill off Danny wat

      2. Spencer

        *sorry I didn’t think “oh wow i asked those forever ago” might come off as douchey*

        It’s cool for us to get some concrete answers, and while I say this as a complete outsider I totally respect that concern and the desire to keep it ambiguous for fear of hurting someone.

        I think, regardless, people will see in Amber what they want to see, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing, and as long as people don’t come in and go “that’s stupid and your lived experiences are wrong” then it’s fine to interpret her either way.

    3. Inspector Hound

      Interesting. I admit that if the character-death-for-angst’s-sake plot had been used, I would have dropped this comic so fast the rebounding electrons would have shorted out Hivework’s servers.

      (It’s a pet peeve of mine. Batman gets a pass, almost everyone else needs to find a different cliche. And yes, the standards, backgrounds, and expectations are different in a comic format, but this is one has really, really gotten over-used.)

  39. Tasha

    Ya know, Amber could just take one of those chairs and push it against the wall

    1. Jess

      That’s so much less fun than a giant chair cube though!

  40. Spencer

    This strip is really frustrating to me.

    Like it’s genuinely hard to believe Amber actually cares for him in the slightest (which I mean they’re the only couple in the series to not get an “i love you” so maybe that’s actually canon? idk) when she acts like this. Danny is pouring his heart out to her and all she can think about is playing her stupid videogame.

    And Amber’s statement in panel 1, I get. I get the belief that you’re just a problem. I get that she thinks Danny is free from obligation and shouldn’t want to be near her, but he’s right there and she can’t even try to listen to him. She’s throwing him away like garbage, and that is infuriating to me.

    The scariest thing to me has always been that the people in my life will give up on me and abandon me. That they’ll see the taint and grime and muck and shit caked over me that I see in myself every day and realize that I was always right and that I was never worth loving and just toss me out of their lives and go back to living to the fullest now that the big piece of shit is gone for good. It’s a sense of dread that permeates through every aspect of my life and I don’t think it will ever go away. That I hurt my loved ones by just being there, that they would be happier if I were gone, is part of what motivates my suicidal thoughts. Because I’m obviously such a shit burden and they’ll be happier once I’m dead and they just don’t see. It’s something I would do anything to tear out of my brain.

    And right now Amber doesn’t seem worth caring about. So IDK. Just have her get thrown in jail or something while Danny and Ethan go on a nice date. The more I try to relate to Amber the more I realize how fundamentally toxic a thought process that is, and that I’m comparing myself over and over to someone who’s just kind of awful. I give up.

    1. Cerberus

      *hugs*

      Yeah, after two major rounds of my life where everyone close to me reacted to an aspect of myself with revulsion and abandonment, I’m generally petrified all the time that at some point some way, the people close to me will finally see the rot in me and run screaming the other direction like everyone else.

      And since the last round of folks were people who spent years telling me how much they loved me, it makes it really hard to relax and assume a certain amount of time makes it unlikely to happen.

      So yeah, I get it. And I support you doing what you feel is psychologically healthiest.

      Personally, I understand where Amber is coming from and I don’t think she’s being intentionally cruel just drained, really not believing she’s worth Danny’s time and self-sabotaging, and trying desperately to set some boundaries with AG in the hopes that she’ll clean up her own mess for once rather than leaving her to somehow handle all the emotional fallout with Danny.

      Still it sucks that that still ended up really hurting Danny.

      1. Spencer

        That Amber is doing this because of her belief that she’s poison to Danny is pretty much the only positive way I can see this tbh. She’s just become such a frustrating character to read about for me. I keep hoping and hoping that she’ll start fixing things and then she does this.

        1. Spencer

          Like, Ruth still has Billie and has a chance to be a good RA this time, Walky affirmed that Dorothy loved him despite his failing grades, Joyce is a motherfucking powerhouse that cannot be stopped (seriously I love Joyce so much, she is such a good main character), Sarah is opening up to her more and more easily as time goes on, Becky has a job and an actual queer adult in her life, and then there’s Amber digging her own little hole. She’s definitely making progress with Sal and that’s fantastic, but her interactions with Danny were a huge reason why I read this comic, because it meant a lot to me that, like, a bi dude was in love with a mentally ill abuse survivor, and that they both took joy and validity in that relationship, so it sucks for me that a year on from their breakup Amber’s still being so cold to him.

          I hope by the end of this chapter they at least get the chance to actually talk it out.

        2. Norah

          It’s not a year though. It’s barely a week. She dumped him on Saturday, and I think it’s just Wednesday of the following week, so four days.. Unless Willismskipped a week, so then it’d be a week and a half.

        3. Norah

          “Unless Willis skipped a week”

        4. Spencer

          It’s been a real time year since it happened. That is what I am getting at.

        5. Norah

          Yes, I see what you mean.

  41. Freezer

    Dammit, Amber!

  42. Spaz

    I will say that I feel for AMBER in this one, a bit.

    Maybe it’s my Asperger’s, maybe it’s just me, but I often have times that I just want to be left alone and be by myself, and other people come in and want interaction.

    I…..tend to be like Amber here. “This is my time, I’m sorry but it’s mine, so leave me alone.”

    it’s not like Amber hasn’t been trying to get personal time. Whether or not that’s healthy is another issue. But sometimes you just need time to yourself.

    I mean, she’s in the middle of a race. At least wait for her to finish it.

    *shrugs*

    just my perspective. Doesn’t mean she’s necessarily not wanting to talk with Danny. Just not necessarily right this minute.

    1. Jago

      I don’t think she means this in the ‘come back later’ sense, more in a ‘get out of my life’ sense. “I’m not your problem anymore.” sounds kind of passive-agressive to me, and then she is immediatelly telling him to “let her play.” I dunno. It’s subjective how one perceives these few words, but to me, that’s more than ‘give me some time alone’.

      1. nightsbridge

        I don’t really see it that way? She was just talking to Danny about her DID troubles pretty intimately. You don’t talk like that to people you don’t want in your life. You clam up and give them nothing.

        1. zoelogical

          ye

          and like: he very explicitly did Not Understand What She Was Saying, and it’s the sort of thing that is difficult to explain. and i mean. that’s a bit much

      2. thejeff

        However she actually means it, the real question is how he took it. Given Danny’s low self-esteem, it’s quite likely he’ll take it negatively.

        1. NoOneLikesRobin

          I think a lot of younger people forget this. Yes, you have x,y, and z problems that tend to push people away and make you seem on the surface like a jerk, but you’re actually not. I get it, it’s tough.

          Thing is, it’s not the world’s job to put up with your damage, justified or not. So whether or not you actually are a jerk, the end result is basically the same, the rewards you reap and all.

          So you can either fight what you have and join society, or you can live with it and be mostly alone, because a vast majority of people don’t maintain connections with people that make them feel bad and give them nothing friendship-wise.

    2. EnerPrime

      I get where Amber’s coming from, but I still think Danny gets the worst of it. Because Amber’s not playing a single player game, she’s playing with Sal. The same Sal that got Danny broken up with by Amazi-Girl and kicked out of Amber’s life for being friendly with. “I can’t trust you because you became friends with Sal” followed up with “go away so I can play video games with Sal” is not a great thing to do with someone.

    3. Spencer

      Relating as much as I do to Amber to Amber makes me feel like there’s something wrong with me.

      1. Li

        /hugs

  43. C.

    My post earlier was under review for moderation. Is there something up?

    1. C.

      I guess it was the external links.

  44. Rukduk

    Ok. I sympathize with both characters here. Mainly because I, like Danny, want to make sure that people I care about are ok, especially when something happens that I feel was major happens. At the same time, I have depression and what would have been diagnosed as Asperger’s if it had been diagnosed before 2013, but is now just highly functioning Autism, so I know what Amber is doing. Gaming is her coping mechanism. What helps her deal with all the anxiety and stress of the outside world in a peaceful little bubble of focus. Being distracted from that coping focus can be very annoying, and even if you don’t mean to be abrasive you still come off as such when being interrupted. At least, that’s how it works for me. I get very annoyed and grouchy when distracted from my “focus time” as I call it.

  45. Torra

    I really like this reaction from Danny here. He’s clearly concerned, but he’s not going to get into a debate about it and just walks away instead. It clearly states how he feels about Amber’s response without actually saying anything

  46. Delicious Taffy

    Yesterday’s advice was very helpful, and I thank everyone who’s chimed in during my recent… difficulties. It’s still physically draining not to intervene without being called on, but it’s kept the situation from escalating. The only interaction I had with the guy all day was to make sure he woke up, so he didn’t miss his ride to work. Admittedly, this was for selfish reasons, since Mom was at work and him leaving meant a solid 4 hours all to myself. We’ve got some new places lined up to check out, so I hope things go well with at least one of them.

    Again, thank you all for the continued support, no matter how small. Ever since I found this comic and community, they’ve been a positive influence, and that’s more than I can say for pretty much any other site I frequent. Unless something super-pressing comes up in the next few days, though, I’m going to be keeping things more loose and try to stay away from personal crises, since they’ve been hitting hard and fast. Might have some questions about cosplay later on, depending on how the day goes.

    1. Cerberus

      *hugs* You’ve got this!

      1. Delicious Taffy

        For once, I’m starting to believe that.

    2. Delicious Taffy

      Regarding cosplay:

      As some folks may have noticed, I’m something of a Power Rangers fan. Tommy’s been my Favorite Guy for the past 20+ years, and for the last few years, I’ve wanted to dress up in that classic Green Ranger outfit. I still do, to an incredible extent. Tommy (and his actor, Jason David Frank) has been a source of inspiration to me for just about my entire life. He may not have had the most consistent powers, what with them always being put in jeopardy early in the show’s run, but any time his friends truly needed him, he was right there, regardless of what it might cost him, personally. So, for the last two decades and running, he’s been my favorite Power Ranger (and possiblly fictional character in general) of all time.

      On March 23, 2017, Tommy got some company in that #1 spot. I saw an advance showing of the new movie, and more to the point, Billy Cranston, the autistic black kid who becomes the Blue Ranger. In his very first scene, it’s obvious that something is different about Billy. He’s got all his pencils arranged in a very specific manner, and becomes visibly upset when his system is disturbed. After Jason, well known for being the Town Star, openly defends him for no other reason than simple kindness, Billy’s first instinct is to bond with Jason. He invites him into his home, even promises to let this guy he just met borrow the van for a few hours. When Jason gets there, Billy opens up about one of his favorite things in the world, something he shared with someone very close to him. Billy is nothing if not trusting.

      Throughout the entire movie, Billy is absolutely thrilled with everything around him, despite his aprehensive nature. Whether it’s all the newfound superhero business or just hanging out with these new friends he’s found, Billy greets every new twist with an enormous grin and puts everything he has into it. He becomes the heart of the team, along with his inherited role as The Smart Guy. In one of the key scenes of the movie, Billy refuses to so much as flinch at Rita’s threats, up until his friends are threatened. At this point, any doubts about the kind of person he is get smashed into oblivion. All the way through to the climactic showdown, Billy is unceasingly grateful for all of his friends and everything they’ve given him, and is prepared to give twice as much back, even if it kills him.

      So, for the first time in two decades, I want to dress up as one of my favorite Rangers. Not the Red Ranger, nor the Green, White, or Black, but the Blue Ranger, the one to whom I can personally relate the most. Sure, I might think differently, have trouble understanding people, and sometimes forget when to stop talking, but so what? Billy Cranston’s got the same difficulties, and he gets to be one of the coolest superheroes ever.

      Now, I do have one reservation toward cosplaying as the 2017 Blue Ranger. Despite sharing a place on the spectrum, I lack a certain point of similarity. Billy Cranston is black, while I am some indistinct mix of Scots-Irish, Italian, and Mediterranean, adding up to me identifying as white. I have seen some discussions of cross-race cosplay, and they weren’t pretty. On the one hand, seeing Billy in that movie was like seeing myself as a Power Ranger. On the other hand, I’d like to avoid stepping on any toes in the process of emulating him. Thoughts?

      1. Deanatay

        As I’ve understood it, cosplay is less about strict imitation, and more about interpretation. Also, most cosplay communities I’ve encountered are ridiculously inclusive. Be the Blue Ranger you want to be, and people will accept it.

        Now, that isn’t to say that there won’t be people who nitpick inaccuracies – ’cause there will be LOTS of those. But, it’s not meant in a mean way, it’s just the way they respect the character. In my experience, it’s more than balanced by the love you’ll get.

      2. Rukduk

        I think you should be ok so long as you, and I cannot stress this enough, do not wear blackface. Now, while I want to assume you know that some white Americans have completely forgotten that doing such is not ok and I want to make sure. I’m pretty sure you know this already but this is a just in case because I have met other white people who were probably the least bigoted I’ve ever met who did not know that this is not allowed. And I am saying this as a white person of Irish descent, despite my random gravatar being Walky. Aside from that, I’ve seen plenty of cosplayers who cosplay as a character whose canon race is different from their own without problem. So I think it would be fine. Especially if you have a killer costume. All can be forgiven with a killer costume (except black face).

      3. itsaboo

        Generally speaking, cosplaying as characters who have a different race, gender and/or body type is seen as okay by the majority of the cosplay community (the main exception being screen accurate elitists). The main thing is to not try and make it look like you’re a different race (through blackface or whatever – blackface is particularly awful due to its history). It’s obvious from reading this that you love the character and wouldn’t be mocking their race in any way by cosplaying them, and I think that’ll show in your cosplay too. If it helps to hear, I’m Asian, and I’ve cosplayed black, white, half-Asian and Asian characters without any problems.

    3. zoelogical

      ok good!!!

      honestly! it’s okay if you wake him up for selfish reasons if it means he gets out of your hair. and it’s okay if he thinks that means you like him, even though it’s gross, because that’s social oil you can use to keep things more peaceful and de-escalated until you book it. you’ve got this.

  47. Jago

    Amber, don’t be a butt!

  48. DarkoNeko

    Alt text : BOOOOO even I wouldn’t have dared that one.

  49. Teddae

    god i was both. i was both, and i hated how it happened. i hated how i pushed people away so easily because i was scared i’d hurt them even more or that they’d hurt me, and i hated how i used to care so much about people when they only made me feel worse. i empathise with them both way too much in an uncomfortable level. bleh

  50. Luna

    Ouch, definitely feeling both of them here. 🙁 Danny for obvious reasons, but also those self-desrtructive impulses from Amber are familiar as heck. She’s been trying to push Danny away conclusively since his break-up with Amazi-girl, and this is just one more scene confirming that. It sucks, but it’s hard to imagine how she’ll get out of that mindset without intervention… (which applies to a lot of Amber’s problems tbh)

  51. NaYa

    Now if Danny goes to get comforted by Ethan… and find Joe…

  52. Killjoy

    Danny — don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, you’re a good one. The fact that you still care and still try is a credit to you. We all make mistakes, at least yours are motivated by giving a damn.

  53. Joe Covenant

    Is it just me, or has Danny left ‘angry’.
    I just noticed he is walking away with a distinctly clenched fist.
    (And arm in a tensed position.)

    (…wouldn’t blame him.)

  54. Clif

    Best alt-text ever.

  55. Smooti

    I do hope Danny eventually grows enough of a backbone to realize that while Amber and Amazigirl need help, that doesn’t mean he has to constantly drop everything when they clearly aren’t willing to accept it. There’s a lot that they both do that he really shouldn’t have to put up with, even if they’re doing it because of the myriad of issues they’re going through.

  56. Deviant

    Getting real worried about Amber. She has some real psychological problems that seriously needs professional help. Her behavior has even led to physical violence and harm, both to her and others. Its a consolation that those that she have harmed has been deserving of it, but I still hope she gets some serious help before something horrible happens.

    1. BBCC

      Yeah, she’s got a nasty mix of PTSD, anxiety, possibly depression, possibly BPD, and possibly some form of dissociative disorder (the most common guess being DID or OSDD-1).

      1. zoelogical

        BPD is mostly when you have manic and depressive episodes, right? have we seen Amber have periods of high activity leading to just about nothing and periods of intense depression where nothing gets done? i feel like her depression has been pretty constant

  57. Saaaam

    Stay in there.

  58. Liliet

    oh goddammit Amber

    You wanted to do right by him and make sure he doesn’t feel obligated to stick around, up to implying you’re not happy he’s there

    but you also wanted him to stay, or you would have hidden in your fort before he left
    you felt safer around him, you felt better, and you were absolutely willing to share your space with him and open up when he was around

    but then he left, and you were left with a realization that 1) you hurt him, 2) when good people are told they are not welcome, they tend to leave, 3) this was exactly what you were trying to do

    it was just not the result you wanted

    dammit, I just… relate to this particular social fuckup so fucking much
    like this isn’t a thing I do actually but I’m constantly afraid of doing it and that’s why I apologize about every three words whenever I’m having an emotional conversation – just in case I pull an Amber and my words are taken exactly at face value

    what she wanted here, what would have been the best case scenario for her mental health, was for Danny to stop talking to her but to stay there, on the chairs, maybe pull out his own handheld or a book

    except Danny is not a mind reader and she coudn’t ASK for this, because she really doesn’t think she deserves it, because she thinks Danny would be hurt by her asking
    and now she’s left with the fact that him leaving might mean either
    1) he took her at face value and is trying to respect her boundaries even though that’s not where they actually are
    2) she got through to him, successfully shut down his dysfunctional obligation feeling and now he’s free and she’s exactly as worthless as she feels
    3) she hurt him and this is not about her at all and maybe she WOULD have been worth caring about if she hadn’t done it but NOW she isn’t

    that feeling when your brain is insisting you’re utterly worthless but you keep hoping other people would disprove this, would fight for you, would even fight YOU for you

    but it’s just not… a fair thing you can expect, and it doesn’t end up happening and AUGH

    and Danny has been hurt again, again without deserving it at all, and HOPEFULLY he can parse her shit enough to see that she cares about him and was trying to express it and have some warm fuzzies from it, but also maybe not

  59. Sylphiod

    I really don’t like amber, and I hope Danny stops trying to be around her.

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