Does anyone play Monopoly without House Rules? I’ve seen at least a dozen different uses for Free Parking.
Nayann Martinelli
My personal House Rule for Monopoly is finding another game that isn’t Monopoly. That game just sucks.
Wagstaff
Even if it does suck by some metrics, I think Monopoly could still be rather useful, particularly as a surrogate for identifying the most toxic players.
He Who Abides
Risk is better for that.
Wagstaff
Interesting suggestion for a better surrogate…. could you please elaborate?
OK…. but what makes it better than monopoly as a toxicity surrogate?
Clif
From which question I deduce you have not played Diplomacy.
Wagstaff
I definitely don’t want to meet any toxic players in order to test that, at least not for a long time. But what do you think makes it a better surrogate? Does it have more opportunities for negotiation or chance events or what?
Dagonz
In Diplomacy, there is no chance at all. Players give orders secretly and they are resolved simultaneously. So the game rewards cooperation, then a well-timed backstab. TLDR; don’t play with your friends if you want them to remain your friends.
Wagstaff
Based on the last part you told me, it is as effective for identifying the most toxic players as a children’s arithmetic test is effective at identifying high school students with the highest mathematical attitude.
Clif
Attitude or aptitude?
The game is 5% mechanical and 95% psychological. You can completely convince two people who are cooperating that both of them are getting the short end of the stick and should fight each other for your ultimate benefit without it being at all toxic. But I stand by my claim that it’s very effective at identifying toxic personalities.
Wagstaff
Damn, typos are the like the papercuts of the internet; not the worst, but still really annoying (especially with faulty autocorrect — I’m looking at YOU, Apple!)
Anyway I meant to say “mathatical aptitude”. My point is that a game can’t really be effective as a surrogate for toxic players if you HAVE to be toxic in order to play well. The trick is to make it so that all can clearly see both the toxic and non-toxic routes to success, and then from there we can see which ones players are more willing to take. Also, their reaction to loss in such a situation (more or less proportionate to the length of sessions) could also be a rather useful indicator of toxicity.
Can you think of any other games besides Diplomacy which meet those requirements?
Common sense
if you wanna find toxic players or a game to unfriend your friends, a good session of Mario kart will also do. (and sometimes mario party xD )
eh, whatever
It’s actually meant to. The inventor wasn’t all that happy about capitalism.
Wagstaff
If that, she was rather unhappy about those who thought laissez-faire capitalism denied the need for laws and their enforcement, especially in regard to renters and their behavior. The latter was exactly what Monopoly was invented to address.
Once I was on a city bus and we rolled by a McDonald’s that had a huge “MONOPOLY is Here!” sign in the window. (For the Monopoly-themed promo that McD’s does.) On the bus were a mom and her like 5-ish-year-old. Kid goes, “Mon-op-o-ly. What’s that, Mommy?” Mom goes, “It’s a game to teach people that capitalism is bad.”
Kryss LaBryn
On top of that, Monopoly (or The Landlord’s Game, as it was then) originally had a second half, kicking in when the first player was out of resources, that was more socialist in outlook, where when one landlord gets paid, everyone takes a cut (from what I’ve heard of it). More or less a Universal Basic Income, funded by taxes on property owners, to effectively make all land still be held in common by the community.
The idea was that Monopoly demonstrates to you that under Capitalism there really can only be one winner, and everyone else loses. But with a more cooperative society, we all get to win.
Unfortunately Parker Bros were only interested in Monopoly, and not the second half of the game, Prosperity. :/
Wagstaff
The best part is, Universal Basic Income and/or social democracy may very well allow us to achieve the goals of the socialist programme without having to adopt the whole socialist package.
Not many people know or may believe this, but libertarian economist Milton Freedman actually supported UBI.
Clif
UBI should carry us well into the rapidly approaching erosion of the value of labor and perhaps into the coming ‘singularity’ itself.
Wagstaff
Until the singularity, I think that social democracy is still worth looking into; it’s really impressive what places like Norway and Denmark were able to do with the Nordic Model.
I think may just be for the best that we start to replace Welfare Programs with UBI and/or job retraining and education programs as safely and effectively as possible.
Roborat
Of course it sucks, it is supposed to suck, it was designed to teach a lesson, not be a fun game.
Kintrex
Monopoly is usually a better game without house rules. Most house rules just keep putting money back into the game which prolongs it. Forced auctions, three turns in jail, no pot on free parking. It keeps the rage confined to a manageable duration instead of a marathon of suffering.
Oh wow, thank you so much for reminding me Ozy and Millie exists. I must have lost my bookmark to it in “the great computer burning of 2013”, along with so many other webcomics I had finished reading and couldn’t remember.
Carl was in yesterday’s comic, but he wandered off and was replaced by Carld who is a completely different person in spite of being superficially similar in appearance.
Demoted Oblivious
Took a screenshot to preserve the moment that Damn you Willis carld’ the tags.
I don’t trust this whole group… it’s like the McAwesome for characters we haven’t grown attached to… it’s a bizarro Dumbing of Age world where Billie is desperately trying to be ‘normal’…
It’s an important distinction considering how often regular Billie was not ‘normal’ (i.e. standing perpendicular to a surface). But now we must consider if Ms. Billingsworth is spending any appreciable amount of time normal to the walls around Asher. Despite my general misgivings about them as a pair, that could be hot. Then again maybe Jennifer is also more modest as part of this new image.
I don’t trust any of this group of people Jennifer is hanging around with, though my distrust of Carl is mainly because he’s only appeared in about 3 or 4 strips so far.
I doubt they’re up to anything untrustworthy so much as Toxic + Flaky + There to make ‘Toxic’ less of a singular entity + Recovering Alcoholic during a ‘I’m a Whole New Me’ phase is not a group you should trust, unless your name’s Cheryl Tunt and you’ve been really bored lately, on the grounds that together they’re just enough gunpowder to make a small keg. Flames and sparks will show up when everyone least expects it. Sal’s drawn to flames enough as it is…
eh. not fake, but i think (and i’m probably projecting) she just had a weird statement sprung on her that she wasn’t prepared to contradict. a few people have stated in the comments here how roller derby does encourage individuality within the team, but that’s a weirdly specific thing to explain on the spot like that if you haven’t thought about it that way, and plus they’re creating a strange interpretation of sal’s involvement anyway.
sal’s not making a good stand, but she’s not being fake, from what i can see. just having a lot of weird statements thrown at her from strange, fake versions of once-familiar people she wasn’t entirely prepared to deal with.
Doki
I like your read. It always feels really weird when people who are clinging desperately to society’s rulebook (here: Billiefer trying to reinvent herself) level assumptions at you that… aren’t even true…?
It’s very off-putting and almost impossible to refute in the moment. :C So I don’t think Sal’s necessarily being fake by fumbling her response.
Is it okay to just mention to people they don’t know how your friend committed crimes? I feel like I busted the Walkman’s chops for doing what Jen just did. I don’t know if that’s okay or not I just know if I had a criminal past I’d like to decide when to let people know. Seems kinda personal to just throw out there. Like someone revealing your sexual history when introducing you.
No, I think you were right the first time. This is information about Sal that Jennifer is thowing out there without wondering if Sal wants this to be the first thing these people know about her. The fact it also involves Asher is basically irrelevent.
a) Asher revealed his criminal past, but he downplayed it. “Knocking off stores” seems to imply shoplifting rather than robbery-at-knifepoint.
b) Asher implied this was a thing Sal & he did “together”, instead of a thing Asher did on the regular, got Sal involved in just once & promptly turned on her by ratting her out.
c) Asher assured Jennifer that all of this belongs to the past now.
d) On the other hand, Jennifer must have known the story about the robbery. So she either downplays it herself or has a selective memory.
212 thoughts on “Knockoff”
Ana Chronistic
prefers DISorganised sports? like Calvinball? or House Rules Parcheesi?
Schpoonman
Sal goes for blood: House Rules Monopoly.
Dean
Every corner is Free Parking
Doctor_Who
Does anyone play Monopoly without House Rules? I’ve seen at least a dozen different uses for Free Parking.
Nayann Martinelli
My personal House Rule for Monopoly is finding another game that isn’t Monopoly. That game just sucks.
Wagstaff
Even if it does suck by some metrics, I think Monopoly could still be rather useful, particularly as a surrogate for identifying the most toxic players.
He Who Abides
Risk is better for that.
Wagstaff
Interesting suggestion for a better surrogate…. could you please elaborate?
Clif
Risk is a poor man’s Diplomacy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_(game)
Wagstaff
OK…. but what makes it better than monopoly as a toxicity surrogate?
Clif
From which question I deduce you have not played Diplomacy.
Wagstaff
I definitely don’t want to meet any toxic players in order to test that, at least not for a long time. But what do you think makes it a better surrogate? Does it have more opportunities for negotiation or chance events or what?
Dagonz
In Diplomacy, there is no chance at all. Players give orders secretly and they are resolved simultaneously. So the game rewards cooperation, then a well-timed backstab. TLDR; don’t play with your friends if you want them to remain your friends.
Wagstaff
Based on the last part you told me, it is as effective for identifying the most toxic players as a children’s arithmetic test is effective at identifying high school students with the highest mathematical attitude.
Clif
Attitude or aptitude?
The game is 5% mechanical and 95% psychological. You can completely convince two people who are cooperating that both of them are getting the short end of the stick and should fight each other for your ultimate benefit without it being at all toxic. But I stand by my claim that it’s very effective at identifying toxic personalities.
Wagstaff
Damn, typos are the like the papercuts of the internet; not the worst, but still really annoying (especially with faulty autocorrect — I’m looking at YOU, Apple!)
Anyway I meant to say “mathatical aptitude”. My point is that a game can’t really be effective as a surrogate for toxic players if you HAVE to be toxic in order to play well. The trick is to make it so that all can clearly see both the toxic and non-toxic routes to success, and then from there we can see which ones players are more willing to take. Also, their reaction to loss in such a situation (more or less proportionate to the length of sessions) could also be a rather useful indicator of toxicity.
Can you think of any other games besides Diplomacy which meet those requirements?
Common sense
if you wanna find toxic players or a game to unfriend your friends, a good session of Mario kart will also do. (and sometimes mario party xD )
eh, whatever
It’s actually meant to. The inventor wasn’t all that happy about capitalism.
Wagstaff
If that, she was rather unhappy about those who thought laissez-faire capitalism denied the need for laws and their enforcement, especially in regard to renters and their behavior. The latter was exactly what Monopoly was invented to address.
Leadsynth
Once I was on a city bus and we rolled by a McDonald’s that had a huge “MONOPOLY is Here!” sign in the window. (For the Monopoly-themed promo that McD’s does.) On the bus were a mom and her like 5-ish-year-old. Kid goes, “Mon-op-o-ly. What’s that, Mommy?” Mom goes, “It’s a game to teach people that capitalism is bad.”
Kryss LaBryn
On top of that, Monopoly (or The Landlord’s Game, as it was then) originally had a second half, kicking in when the first player was out of resources, that was more socialist in outlook, where when one landlord gets paid, everyone takes a cut (from what I’ve heard of it). More or less a Universal Basic Income, funded by taxes on property owners, to effectively make all land still be held in common by the community.
The idea was that Monopoly demonstrates to you that under Capitalism there really can only be one winner, and everyone else loses. But with a more cooperative society, we all get to win.
Unfortunately Parker Bros were only interested in Monopoly, and not the second half of the game, Prosperity. :/
Wagstaff
The best part is, Universal Basic Income and/or social democracy may very well allow us to achieve the goals of the socialist programme without having to adopt the whole socialist package.
Not many people know or may believe this, but libertarian economist Milton Freedman actually supported UBI.
Clif
UBI should carry us well into the rapidly approaching erosion of the value of labor and perhaps into the coming ‘singularity’ itself.
Wagstaff
Until the singularity, I think that social democracy is still worth looking into; it’s really impressive what places like Norway and Denmark were able to do with the Nordic Model.
I think may just be for the best that we start to replace Welfare Programs with UBI and/or job retraining and education programs as safely and effectively as possible.
Roborat
Of course it sucks, it is supposed to suck, it was designed to teach a lesson, not be a fun game.
Kintrex
Monopoly is usually a better game without house rules. Most house rules just keep putting money back into the game which prolongs it. Forced auctions, three turns in jail, no pot on free parking. It keeps the rage confined to a manageable duration instead of a marathon of suffering.
AlexanderHammil
House Rules Monopoly is both less vicious and less fun than Actual Rules Monopoly.
Devin
All the more reason to just never play any version of it ever again.
Wagstaff
Not even the online version, with CPU players?
Yumi
The arcade game Monopoly that they have at places like Dave & Buster’s is fun. It’s very different than actual Monopoly, but it has the aesthetic.
Needfuldoer
Wait until you’re playing and someone whips out one of the expansion mini-game sets that are supposed to work with Free Parking and Jail.
Don’t Go to Jail was kind of fun, at least.
Enkrod
Oh wow, thank you so much for reminding me Ozy and Millie exists. I must have lost my bookmark to it in “the great computer burning of 2013”, along with so many other webcomics I had finished reading and couldn’t remember.
Ana Chronistic
I was about to be sad the comments got THIS far and no acknowledgement of O&M D=
There are now TWO dead tree books, too!
Ana Chronistic
(or rather, two printed by a big name publisher and sold in brick and mortar stores)
davidbreslin101
OK, so I have now started reading “Ozy and Millie” for the first time….
Levantoni
Mornington Crescent anyone?
Doctor_Who
Sal doesn’t color inside the lines – she draws NEW lines a millimeter outside the old lines, and then colors within THEM!
I am Nothing
Then she purposefully colours outside of those lines.
Deanatay
Sal REJECTS your rules and replaces them with… slightly different ones she got from someone else.
Sirksome
If Asher is gonna feature heavily in this scene and chapter it’s gonna get stale how often I mention I don’t trust him….Which I don’t. That is all.
Johan
Personally I don’t trust this carld guy.
Is is Carl or carld??? Make up your mind!
Clif
Carl was in yesterday’s comic, but he wandered off and was replaced by Carld who is a completely different person in spite of being superficially similar in appearance.
Demoted Oblivious
Took a screenshot to preserve the moment that Damn you Willis carld’ the tags.
Phil
Carl now has his own dimension
Undrave
I don’t trust this whole group… it’s like the McAwesome for characters we haven’t grown attached to… it’s a bizarro Dumbing of Age world where Billie is desperately trying to be ‘normal’…
Lingo
No that’s regular Billie.
Clif
Not to be confused with ‘normal’ Billie.
Demoted Oblivious
It’s an important distinction considering how often regular Billie was not ‘normal’ (i.e. standing perpendicular to a surface). But now we must consider if Ms. Billingsworth is spending any appreciable amount of time normal to the walls around Asher. Despite my general misgivings about them as a pair, that could be hot. Then again maybe Jennifer is also more modest as part of this new image.
WanderingLynx
Gotta admit I’m not even intrigued by what his actual deal is anymore. I just groan when I see him by default /)_-
Keulen
I don’t trust any of this group of people Jennifer is hanging around with, though my distrust of Carl is mainly because he’s only appeared in about 3 or 4 strips so far.
DudeMyDadOwnsaDealership
I doubt they’re up to anything untrustworthy so much as Toxic + Flaky + There to make ‘Toxic’ less of a singular entity + Recovering Alcoholic during a ‘I’m a Whole New Me’ phase is not a group you should trust, unless your name’s Cheryl Tunt and you’ve been really bored lately, on the grounds that together they’re just enough gunpowder to make a small keg. Flames and sparks will show up when everyone least expects it. Sal’s drawn to flames enough as it is…
Yumi
Well, that seems to answer the question asked yesterday about whether Jennifer and Asher knew each other growing up.
Yumi
Now I keep wondering what Asher’s reputation was like in high school.
RassilonTDavros
Sal Walkerton: Rebel Without a… Rebellion?
StClair
Okay, now she is being pretty fake.
As much as I hate for Malaya to be right about anything.
Clif
What do you mean fake. That’s genuine Sal all over.
brute
eh. not fake, but i think (and i’m probably projecting) she just had a weird statement sprung on her that she wasn’t prepared to contradict. a few people have stated in the comments here how roller derby does encourage individuality within the team, but that’s a weirdly specific thing to explain on the spot like that if you haven’t thought about it that way, and plus they’re creating a strange interpretation of sal’s involvement anyway.
sal’s not making a good stand, but she’s not being fake, from what i can see. just having a lot of weird statements thrown at her from strange, fake versions of once-familiar people she wasn’t entirely prepared to deal with.
Doki
I like your read. It always feels really weird when people who are clinging desperately to society’s rulebook (here: Billiefer trying to reinvent herself) level assumptions at you that… aren’t even true…?
It’s very off-putting and almost impossible to refute in the moment. :C So I don’t think Sal’s necessarily being fake by fumbling her response.
Gon
Raidah is still alive?
Clif
Apparently. Though it is hard to understand.
Sirksome
Is it okay to just mention to people they don’t know how your friend committed crimes? I feel like I busted the Walkman’s chops for doing what Jen just did. I don’t know if that’s okay or not I just know if I had a criminal past I’d like to decide when to let people know. Seems kinda personal to just throw out there. Like someone revealing your sexual history when introducing you.
Nathan
I feel like it’s NOT ok but most people would probably take that as a joke so…..less bad than it could be?
Sirksome
To me it just reads as a way to get quick clout. Even Walky talks about it cause it’s a cool story
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/01-this-bright-millennium/otherside/
But it’s not really their cool story. But maybe it’s okay cause Asher is there so Jen is kinda given a pass cause he was involved and they are dating.
Daibhid C
No, I think you were right the first time. This is information about Sal that Jennifer is thowing out there without wondering if Sal wants this to be the first thing these people know about her. The fact it also involves Asher is basically irrelevent.
Undrave
Maybe Asher already revealed his criminal past? But yeah, it’s totally not cool.
Thomas
Let’s unpack Jennifer’s statement, shall we?
a) Asher revealed his criminal past, but he downplayed it. “Knocking off stores” seems to imply shoplifting rather than robbery-at-knifepoint.
b) Asher implied this was a thing Sal & he did “together”, instead of a thing Asher did on the regular, got Sal involved in just once & promptly turned on her by ratting her out.
c) Asher assured Jennifer that all of this belongs to the past now.
d) On the other hand, Jennifer must have known the story about the robbery. So she either downplays it herself or has a selective memory.
Clif
I dunno. “Tell me all about your sexual history so that I can introduce you,” sounds like it might be an icebreaker.
Demoted Oblivious
An icebreaker, and a deal breaker even!
Keulen
If I had a criminal past like Sal does, I don’t think I’d want that to be the first thing new people I meet hear about me.
Jhon
Why does no none ever want to hear about my criminal past?
Clif
We prefer to fantasize about it uninhibited by information.
He Who Abides
Did it involve costumes and uniformed henchmen?