“Come on” — not unironically the one that pissed Dorothy off in Gender Studies class!!! XD
Laura
Oh, wow, funny, I did not catch that! 😀
Icarus
I’m pretty sure “c’mon” is a very common expression. It’s hardly catchphrase material.
Decidedly Orthogonal
A catchphrase is hardly restricted by the commonality of it’s usage. A surfer guy stereotype is still distinguished by saying, “dude,” as a catchphrase. Hell, even just, “catchphrase,” was recently effectively deployed as a catchphrase (to humourous effect, to be sure). A catchphrase is more identifiably so based on the frequency of use and connectedness to the identity of a particular person.
All that said, I otherwise agree that, “come on,” isn’t so distinctively pronounced with Joe that it stands out as a characteristic marker. However, I am *not* willing to do the legwork of OCR’ing the comic text, attributing each bubble, and then running frequency analysis to mathematically determine if it is or isn’t in fact a statistically significant identifier of Joe’s. Though it certainly could be done.
I would very much like my lover to be my friend. I don’t think I could marry a girl who won’t eat goldfish crackers and watch anime with me in my underwear.
wwwhhattt
But what would you be wearing?
Andy
Presumably their normal attire, sans underwear
Clif
That’s what I read.
Wizard
Most people have more than one pair. Although if you’re close enough in size, I suppose you could wear each others’ when you’re feeling a little kinky.
Rose by Any Other Name
My wife and I wear one another’s underwear all the time.
And socks. And leggings. And t-shirts.
It’s not kinky so much as ‘oops, all my stuff is in the laundry.’
I began my relationship with my now-husband by telling him I didn’t feel the same way about him but was happy to get to know him better as a friend. And then once I did that I realized I did feel the same way.
People underestimate the potential of the Friend Zone! Obviously people should not pursue friendship with the sole intention of hoping they can turn a “no” into a “yes” with enough time and persistence, but many people (possibly especially women?) kind of need people to start in the Friend Zone before achieving “romantic partner” status.
Considering Joyce’s first and only prior date with Joe, and his past behavior, I wouldn’t be surprised that even if she does have feelings for him she’d want to take it slow due to residual wariness about whether or not he’s really changed.
Or also: could be that while she has clearly shown some subconscious physical attraction to him, she’s never thought about anything beyond that (at least not since before that terrible date) and feels good about possibly exploring this but wants to take some time to figure out how she really feels first.
Uhhh… that’s a hand, genius. Jeez, look at Mr. Oblivious over here. Next your gonna tell me you don’t understand basic common place idioms. I know I do.
But we don’t see how that started. She is clearly domme, but that tells us nothing about whether she hit on him or vice versa.
thejeff
It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex. He is (or was early on, more accurately) regularly hitting on women. But all the attempts we see involve him getting shot down, usually very emphatically (Sarah, Rachel). The only successes we actually know about were either started by the woman (Malaya, Liz) or started off screen so we don’t know what happened (Roz, Penny).
We’ve never seen him successfully hit on anyone, though it’s implied he’s successful pretty often. (Up to quite recently, with Danny’s comment about being sexiled again.)
We’ve also never seen him fail with someone who didn’t reject him at once – other than that first date with Joyce.
BowlerHatGuy
“It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex.”
Yeah, im a bit scared that Joe and Joyce are going to get close to having sex and bam, Joe confesses its all been a lie and he’s only had sex with 2 people.
Joe’s good points are his confidence and straight talk, no lies, no manipulation. And if thats all been bullshit, then jeebus, thats the worst twist ever.
Rose by Any Other Name
Honestly, that hits me as pretty realistic.
One of my acquaintances in college, a friend of one of my male friends, acted very much like Joe, hitting on people at random, often in a crass fashion, and hooting about this sexual prowess. This included, while on a trip to the grocery store, holding up a six-inch summer sausage and informing me that it was equivalent to what he was packing.
I learned from our mutual friend that this attitude stemmed from a single sexual experience he’d had his first week in college. Basically, he lost his virginity and then started acting like he was a player.
It took a few years, but eventually he got over trying to convince everyone he was a sex god or whatever and settled into a better attitude in general and actually ended up being kind of a cool guy (albeit still fairly crass). I believe he ended up marrying his first serious girlfriend, and last I heard remains happily so with at least one kid.
BowlerHatGuy
Yeah, it is plausible. Its just shitty from the perspective of yet another male charactet in DoA is just a weenus.
Becky got a bunch of her shit figured out and is confident to the max, a horn dog, and finally did it with Dina. Thought Joe might get some shit figured aout and be a confident to the max horndog who maybe fall for Joyce. But there have been weird little clues pointing to a “surprise! This guy sucks too” type twist.
Especially since one rederming quality of joe has been hus “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code.
If Joe has been lying this whole time, constantly breaking his code, that would be like finding hindreds of bullet riddled criminals buried in the bat cave.
But if a guy hates joe or hates batman, that would be the way to write it.
thejeff
I’ve got no idea what you’re even talking about.
The whole damn point of Joe is that he was shit, but he’s gotten better. Yeah, he’s been playing up his horndog image, even though he really is a horndog. We’ve known that for a long time now. He talked to Danny about it, after the list blew up.
He’s never had a “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code. I don’t even know where that comes from. No cheating, yes. But mostly by not letting himself get in a relationship he could cheat it, because he “knew” he would.
I don’t think there’s any “this guy sucks too” twist coming. Or at least not in ways that we didn’t already know he sucked and that he’s been trying to improve.
Autogatos
Not sure how you got “ another male character in DoA is just a weenus” from the idea that he may have had less sex than he’s claimed? That kind of seems like a personal judgement?
Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with. Yes lots of people (especially other men) do judge men by that, and you seem to possibly be one of them, but if so, that’s kind of…your own issue? Not commentary the comic is making. At all.
Aren’t you also the person who said in yesterdays comments that you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex? Again, respectfully, it seems like you may have some personal hang ups about how you see other people and how they might see you in relation to this stuff that you are projecting onto the comic. Because I don’t think anyone else here is reading it that way (or at least most of us aren’t).
BowlerHatGuy
“Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with”
But confidence/strength could be measured by finding out Joe has been constantly lying about who he really is.
Its not about numbers. Becky is over the top confident and strong. Shes only had sex with Dina and maybe one other.
“you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex?”
Is there an example of a casual sex relationship involving a main character that shown in a positive light?
Danny/dorothy? 4 years, so nope.
Dorothy/walky? Started out that waym but quickly devolved into the whole “i love you” bit, break up, plus dorothy pity fucking him, so no.
Walky/amber? Garbage roof is not positive portrayal, so, no.
Walky / lucy? Nope
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but it felt like it was being presented that he’s doing it only cause he cant be in the relationship with the one he loves. Like it was second place. Id have to re-read.
Becky/dina? No. Becky nearly died thinking dina was turned on by Joe and not her.
Sal/Jason: sex without feelings of love, but only to get better grades and an abuse of authority.
Danny/sal? Nope
Ruth/Jennifer? Suicide pacts are the opposite of casual
Ruth/newspaper editor? Started out being a casual sex encounter, and ruth bailed. For reasons?
Ruth/jason? Taking your bartender home could have qualified. But ruth made it into another weird ruth thing. No.
Jennifer/asher? No. Also asher might be decieving her.
Joe/roz: political hit job isnt very casual.
Think joe and someone, maybe malaya, might have had a casual moment. That might be the only one.
Roz was handing out lube and condoms at one point. But she doesnt get much face time and i dont remember seeing any of her relationships with anyone. Except the sex tape/political hit job.
I cant think of any other relationships that hapoened on screen.
So maybe just the one with Joe/malaya, but if Joe is a huge liar all this time, kinda takes away a big chunk of it being portrayed in a positive light.
Sal/jason was casual but objectively unethical. Jason got fired.
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but i seem to remember him saying it was his second place choice at one point cause he coukdnt be with the one he loved.
Did i miss any examples of casual sex being portrayed positively?
Autogatos
I’ll give you that on the lying point, but given the society we exist in, it’s a lie I think many women, myself included, might be a bit more forgiving of than others. Especially for a character like Joe whose entire earlier persona seemed heavily shaped by toxic masculinity but is now trying to change.
If he admits he was exaggerating at some point it wouldn’t be a shock and would be another moment of character growth. I can’t speak for all women but personally I respect a person who is able to admit they weren’t being honest before because they were concerned about public appearances, but want to start being honest going forward.
And for someone like Joyce I doubt it would be a problem, more likely a relief if he admitted he was less experienced than he’d originally claimed, since being with a partner who has a lot more experience would possibly cause some nervousness in someone like Joyce who has no experience and until recently believed pre-martial sex got you sent to a place of eternal torment. I dunno what her views are on it now but it’s like still going to take her time to become comfortable with the idea of physical intimacy given her upbringing.
As for the other points, I addressed all that in yesterdays comments already.
Matticus
Didn’t he already imply that when he confessed to Danny that he’s never actually been in a threesome? IIRC he admitted that he doesn’t get anywhere near the action that he claims to get.
BowlerHatGuy
I mean, depending on what statistics you go by, the average number of sexual partners for people might be anywhere from 6 to 24 and only about 10 to 20% of people have been in a threesome.
It doesnt actually take a lot to get into the “busy” half of the bell curve.
Oh well. The rate time moves in this comic we might find out by 2030.
I learned ‘how to be a man’ from my dad, even though that turned out to be a poor fit for who I actually am. Joe may be in a similar situation only about 45 years earlier than me.
well, as far as we know this is his first actual time he’s caught feelings (as the kids say) as opposed to just a quick hookup (tho tbh i’m surprised when he was younger it hasn’t been an issue with jealous girls unless he was openly saying he wanted to just get in their pants from the start lol)
If there is one thing Joe has always made clear, it is that things have always casual and not serious because he didn’t do vulnerability and vulnerable feelings.
StClair
It’s not ’cause he likes you or anything.
or has been yearning for but denying himself that all his life because he “knows” he’ll just turn into his father
I think Dorothy’s question is pretty damn valid given that literally right at this moment Joe is being incapable of being friends with a woman. He hasn’t sexually objectified Joyce, but he definitely does not want to be friends with her either.
Like I know she doesn’t have a great impression of him but did he do anything to piss her off recently, or is she just suspicious of him right now?
DailyBrad
I think her last real interaction with him was his “completely giving up” stage late last semester where he was intentionally being really gross and misogynistic and more than a little nihilistic.
Obviously, Joe’s been way different since then, but she hasn’t really had an opportunity to see that, or what led to that in the first place.
LovelyMonsters
If it was revealed that a guy I knew kept a list of women at the university we attended ranked by fuckability, I would take that very personally. I get pretty offended when people view me as fuckstock.
So IS Joe capable of being friends with a woman? We have yet to see any evidence in his favor. Joyce befriended him, semi-forcibly, but as soon as it worked he stopped wanting to be friends with Joyce and started feeling the romance.
Cards on the table, I ship Joyce and Joe pretty hard, and I think in a world where they understand themselves a little better and aren’t so frightened of parts of themselves because of the terrible behavior of their respective parents, they’d make a great couple. They are SO cute together.
But they’re also both still recovering misogynists. Joyce has absolutely no sense of personal boundaries. Joe is so terrified he’s going to become a cheater that he might make it true. Joyce has some SERIOUS shame to work through about sex as a recovering Christian woman, not to mention trauma from an attempted rape, and Joe has absolutely no experience with sensitivity or care or love when it comes to sex, so obviously there are some nuclear incidents waiting to Occur. While I am SUPER into this plotline, I am also wincing hard in anticipation of a zero-survivors landing.
i’d assume even without it being joe she wouldn’t necessarily wanting someone to butt into their lunch time/hangout considering she was feeling upset/underappreciated after joyce ‘begged’ her to spend more time together or so
Vanessa
True, she’s built up quite a bit of irritation at Joyce that she might be letting loose on this “jock himbo” she’s already disliked for years. I wonder if he made some nasty passes at her or maybe it was The List.
I’m worried about her transfer too.
DailyBrad
If he ever did, it’d have been pre-comic. I kinda get the impression she’s been off-limits to him for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being Joe is not a guy who’d make a pass at his best friend’s ex of a longterm relationship. Like, he doesn’t approve of cheating, and he doesn’t seem keen on “bro-code” violations, either, and that’d definitely be one.
Beyond that, she also knows him, or at least did, and she saw through a lot of his act before, even if I think Joyce has a more keen understanding of Joe these days. I don’t really feel like he’d even attempt it on her.
thejeff
But as his best friend’s girlfriend during high school, even if she was off-limits, she’s probably seen him at his worst. Not directed at her, but at every other attractive girl she knew.
Remember, she dated Danny for a while, and he is Joe’s best friend.
Notice how Dorothy and Joe have never been shown as friends? How much do you want to bet that Joe essentially went “This is a girl I have no chance or interest in having sex with, therefore she is irrelevant to me”
From her one line I’d say that she was more mad at Joe. I’d imagine that she would not trust Joe with Joyce at all, though I’m guessing that she was not aware that they went on a date previously.
That’s my guess, too. Dorothy probably thinks Joe’s playing some game to get into Joyce’s pants. She hasn’t been around to see New Joe, so she has no reason to trust his sincerity.
Maybe that’s why Joe and Amber’s stories came together, so she can corroborate his character growth as an uninvolved third party Dorothy would trust. She knows.
I think this is Joyce testing her confidence a bit. No doubt she enjoys knowing exactly what’s going on and for once not being the last horse to cross the finish line, but that handhold in the last panel feels like reassurance to me. Like ‘I’m getting there, it’s definitely not no, I just want to get this right.’
It helps that Joe is 100% continuing to walk his talk from drawing class.
Yuup. She’s clearly expressed wanting to “enjoy her view” and that she’ll think about things. The handholding is a great way of saying “just be patient” while also expressing that she’s more than comfortable with the situation right now.
That’s my reading of it, yeah. She’s absolutely aware he like-likes her, and she seems resistant to slapping a label on what’s going on right now, but she’s definitely neither leading him on or dismissing it. I kinda get the impression she’s more than merely flattered, but that she’s stopping to smell the roses and appreciating this feeling for all it’s worth.
264 thoughts on “Friends”
The Wellerman
What a delightful twist on Joe’s catch-phrase! ? ✌️?
*plays “Abracadabra” by Steve Miller’s Band on hacked muzak*
Laura
What catchphrase is that?
The Wellerman
“Come on” — not unironically the one that pissed Dorothy off in Gender Studies class!!! XD
Laura
Oh, wow, funny, I did not catch that! 😀
Icarus
I’m pretty sure “c’mon” is a very common expression. It’s hardly catchphrase material.
Decidedly Orthogonal
A catchphrase is hardly restricted by the commonality of it’s usage. A surfer guy stereotype is still distinguished by saying, “dude,” as a catchphrase. Hell, even just, “catchphrase,” was recently effectively deployed as a catchphrase (to humourous effect, to be sure). A catchphrase is more identifiably so based on the frequency of use and connectedness to the identity of a particular person.
All that said, I otherwise agree that, “come on,” isn’t so distinctively pronounced with Joe that it stands out as a characteristic marker. However, I am *not* willing to do the legwork of OCR’ing the comic text, attributing each bubble, and then running frequency analysis to mathematically determine if it is or isn’t in fact a statistically significant identifier of Joe’s. Though it certainly could be done.
Ana Chronistic
“…friend is not the failstate of lover, you know”
“LET US DEPART, MR. JOSEPH♥”
Rose by Any Other Name
I mean, for a lot of us, it’s the starting point and main core of lover.
The Wellerman
Very much true, Professor Rose! ?
Concolor44
Indeed. I married my best friend. It’s worked pretty well for the past 40 years.
Librain
I married my best friend and ten years later my wife is still pissed about it.
The Lurker
We’re coming up on 49 this week, and I concur.
Yotomoe
I would very much like my lover to be my friend. I don’t think I could marry a girl who won’t eat goldfish crackers and watch anime with me in my underwear.
wwwhhattt
But what would you be wearing?
Andy
Presumably their normal attire, sans underwear
Clif
That’s what I read.
Wizard
Most people have more than one pair. Although if you’re close enough in size, I suppose you could wear each others’ when you’re feeling a little kinky.
Rose by Any Other Name
My wife and I wear one another’s underwear all the time.
And socks. And leggings. And t-shirts.
It’s not kinky so much as ‘oops, all my stuff is in the laundry.’
Autogatos
I began my relationship with my now-husband by telling him I didn’t feel the same way about him but was happy to get to know him better as a friend. And then once I did that I realized I did feel the same way.
People underestimate the potential of the Friend Zone! Obviously people should not pursue friendship with the sole intention of hoping they can turn a “no” into a “yes” with enough time and persistence, but many people (possibly especially women?) kind of need people to start in the Friend Zone before achieving “romantic partner” status.
Considering Joyce’s first and only prior date with Joe, and his past behavior, I wouldn’t be surprised that even if she does have feelings for him she’d want to take it slow due to residual wariness about whether or not he’s really changed.
Or also: could be that while she has clearly shown some subconscious physical attraction to him, she’s never thought about anything beyond that (at least not since before that terrible date) and feels good about possibly exploring this but wants to take some time to figure out how she really feels first.
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Joe: Friends?
Me: No-one told you life was gonna be this waaay…. *clapclapclapclap*
darkoneko
She’s leading him by the nose~
True Survivor
Uhhh… that’s a hand, genius. Jeez, look at Mr. Oblivious over here. Next your gonna tell me you don’t understand basic common place idioms. I know I do.
Doctor_Who
You can’t convince me that Joyce isn’t slightly enjoying the fact that she’s dangling Joe on a string and can choose to crush his spirit at any time.
bagge
Oh, she absolutely love it.
You can’t convince me that a part of Joe doesn’t like it too.
Doctor_Who
Hey, we saw his reaction to Dina’s proposed “experiment”. Dude’s absolutely a sub.
The Wellerman
Yeah, I can totally see Joe as a chastity sub and Joyce as the keyholding tease-mistress, among other BDSM activities ???
Needfuldoer
We saw Joyce’s reaction as well. He can’t be too worried yet.
Jamie
The two actual sexcapades I remember of Joe (with Roz and Malaya) were both initiated by the other person, too. And Liz.
…have we ever seen him successfully hit on someone? I’m just forgetting it, right?
Agemegos
We saw him with Penny: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/twelvethirty/
But we don’t see how that started. She is clearly domme, but that tells us nothing about whether she hit on him or vice versa.
thejeff
It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex. He is (or was early on, more accurately) regularly hitting on women. But all the attempts we see involve him getting shot down, usually very emphatically (Sarah, Rachel). The only successes we actually know about were either started by the woman (Malaya, Liz) or started off screen so we don’t know what happened (Roz, Penny).
We’ve never seen him successfully hit on anyone, though it’s implied he’s successful pretty often. (Up to quite recently, with Danny’s comment about being sexiled again.)
We’ve also never seen him fail with someone who didn’t reject him at once – other than that first date with Joyce.
BowlerHatGuy
“It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex.”
Yeah, im a bit scared that Joe and Joyce are going to get close to having sex and bam, Joe confesses its all been a lie and he’s only had sex with 2 people.
Joe’s good points are his confidence and straight talk, no lies, no manipulation. And if thats all been bullshit, then jeebus, thats the worst twist ever.
Rose by Any Other Name
Honestly, that hits me as pretty realistic.
One of my acquaintances in college, a friend of one of my male friends, acted very much like Joe, hitting on people at random, often in a crass fashion, and hooting about this sexual prowess. This included, while on a trip to the grocery store, holding up a six-inch summer sausage and informing me that it was equivalent to what he was packing.
I learned from our mutual friend that this attitude stemmed from a single sexual experience he’d had his first week in college. Basically, he lost his virginity and then started acting like he was a player.
It took a few years, but eventually he got over trying to convince everyone he was a sex god or whatever and settled into a better attitude in general and actually ended up being kind of a cool guy (albeit still fairly crass). I believe he ended up marrying his first serious girlfriend, and last I heard remains happily so with at least one kid.
BowlerHatGuy
Yeah, it is plausible. Its just shitty from the perspective of yet another male charactet in DoA is just a weenus.
Becky got a bunch of her shit figured out and is confident to the max, a horn dog, and finally did it with Dina. Thought Joe might get some shit figured aout and be a confident to the max horndog who maybe fall for Joyce. But there have been weird little clues pointing to a “surprise! This guy sucks too” type twist.
Especially since one rederming quality of joe has been hus “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code.
If Joe has been lying this whole time, constantly breaking his code, that would be like finding hindreds of bullet riddled criminals buried in the bat cave.
But if a guy hates joe or hates batman, that would be the way to write it.
thejeff
I’ve got no idea what you’re even talking about.
The whole damn point of Joe is that he was shit, but he’s gotten better. Yeah, he’s been playing up his horndog image, even though he really is a horndog. We’ve known that for a long time now. He talked to Danny about it, after the list blew up.
He’s never had a “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code. I don’t even know where that comes from. No cheating, yes. But mostly by not letting himself get in a relationship he could cheat it, because he “knew” he would.
I don’t think there’s any “this guy sucks too” twist coming. Or at least not in ways that we didn’t already know he sucked and that he’s been trying to improve.
Autogatos
Not sure how you got “ another male character in DoA is just a weenus” from the idea that he may have had less sex than he’s claimed? That kind of seems like a personal judgement?
Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with. Yes lots of people (especially other men) do judge men by that, and you seem to possibly be one of them, but if so, that’s kind of…your own issue? Not commentary the comic is making. At all.
Aren’t you also the person who said in yesterdays comments that you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex? Again, respectfully, it seems like you may have some personal hang ups about how you see other people and how they might see you in relation to this stuff that you are projecting onto the comic. Because I don’t think anyone else here is reading it that way (or at least most of us aren’t).
BowlerHatGuy
“Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with”
But confidence/strength could be measured by finding out Joe has been constantly lying about who he really is.
Its not about numbers. Becky is over the top confident and strong. Shes only had sex with Dina and maybe one other.
“you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex?”
Is there an example of a casual sex relationship involving a main character that shown in a positive light?
Danny/dorothy? 4 years, so nope.
Dorothy/walky? Started out that waym but quickly devolved into the whole “i love you” bit, break up, plus dorothy pity fucking him, so no.
Walky/amber? Garbage roof is not positive portrayal, so, no.
Walky / lucy? Nope
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but it felt like it was being presented that he’s doing it only cause he cant be in the relationship with the one he loves. Like it was second place. Id have to re-read.
Becky/dina? No. Becky nearly died thinking dina was turned on by Joe and not her.
Sal/Jason: sex without feelings of love, but only to get better grades and an abuse of authority.
Danny/sal? Nope
Ruth/Jennifer? Suicide pacts are the opposite of casual
Ruth/newspaper editor? Started out being a casual sex encounter, and ruth bailed. For reasons?
Ruth/jason? Taking your bartender home could have qualified. But ruth made it into another weird ruth thing. No.
Jennifer/asher? No. Also asher might be decieving her.
Joe/roz: political hit job isnt very casual.
Think joe and someone, maybe malaya, might have had a casual moment. That might be the only one.
Roz was handing out lube and condoms at one point. But she doesnt get much face time and i dont remember seeing any of her relationships with anyone. Except the sex tape/political hit job.
I cant think of any other relationships that hapoened on screen.
So maybe just the one with Joe/malaya, but if Joe is a huge liar all this time, kinda takes away a big chunk of it being portrayed in a positive light.
Sal/jason was casual but objectively unethical. Jason got fired.
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but i seem to remember him saying it was his second place choice at one point cause he coukdnt be with the one he loved.
Did i miss any examples of casual sex being portrayed positively?
Autogatos
I’ll give you that on the lying point, but given the society we exist in, it’s a lie I think many women, myself included, might be a bit more forgiving of than others. Especially for a character like Joe whose entire earlier persona seemed heavily shaped by toxic masculinity but is now trying to change.
If he admits he was exaggerating at some point it wouldn’t be a shock and would be another moment of character growth. I can’t speak for all women but personally I respect a person who is able to admit they weren’t being honest before because they were concerned about public appearances, but want to start being honest going forward.
And for someone like Joyce I doubt it would be a problem, more likely a relief if he admitted he was less experienced than he’d originally claimed, since being with a partner who has a lot more experience would possibly cause some nervousness in someone like Joyce who has no experience and until recently believed pre-martial sex got you sent to a place of eternal torment. I dunno what her views are on it now but it’s like still going to take her time to become comfortable with the idea of physical intimacy given her upbringing.
As for the other points, I addressed all that in yesterdays comments already.
Matticus
Didn’t he already imply that when he confessed to Danny that he’s never actually been in a threesome? IIRC he admitted that he doesn’t get anywhere near the action that he claims to get.
BowlerHatGuy
I mean, depending on what statistics you go by, the average number of sexual partners for people might be anywhere from 6 to 24 and only about 10 to 20% of people have been in a threesome.
It doesnt actually take a lot to get into the “busy” half of the bell curve.
Oh well. The rate time moves in this comic we might find out by 2030.
vulcanodon
I learned ‘how to be a man’ from my dad, even though that turned out to be a poor fit for who I actually am. Joe may be in a similar situation only about 45 years earlier than me.
Yotomoe
It’s kinda hot, nglbagge
What Joe is trying to say is that he wants to hold hands and look at pictures of dinosaurs
Thag Simmons
Peak romance really.
Needfuldoer
Becky angrily yells from across campus, “HEY! THAT’S OUR THING!”
EpochFlame
joyce is having a very good day 🙂
Blume
I know Dotty is mad, and that’s understandable… But… But… THEY’RE SO CUTE GAHHHH. MY HEART!!! JOYCE IS SO HAPPY GAHHHH GRRRRR WOOF WOOF BARK BA-
Bottas_Heimfe
it’s so weird seeing Joe being the insecure one.
lily
well, as far as we know this is his first actual time he’s caught feelings (as the kids say) as opposed to just a quick hookup (tho tbh i’m surprised when he was younger it hasn’t been an issue with jealous girls unless he was openly saying he wanted to just get in their pants from the start lol)
Sam
If there is one thing Joe has always made clear, it is that things have always casual and not serious because he didn’t do vulnerability and vulnerable feelings.
StClair
It’s not ’cause he likes you or anything.
or has been yearning for but denying himself that all his life because he “knows” he’ll just turn into his fatherDailyBrad
Ooh, this is interesting. Joyce definitely knows what she’s doing with ambiguity.
I don’t hold Dorothy’s hesitation against her, since I mean, she doesn’t know any of what happened. We’ll see.
LovelyMonsters
I think Dorothy’s question is pretty damn valid given that literally right at this moment Joe is being incapable of being friends with a woman. He hasn’t sexually objectified Joyce, but he definitely does not want to be friends with her either.
Nono
I can’t tell which one Dorothy is (more) mad at.
poofdepoof
Same. But does she have any particular reason to be mad at Joe?
poofdepoof
Like I know she doesn’t have a great impression of him but did he do anything to piss her off recently, or is she just suspicious of him right now?
DailyBrad
I think her last real interaction with him was his “completely giving up” stage late last semester where he was intentionally being really gross and misogynistic and more than a little nihilistic.
Obviously, Joe’s been way different since then, but she hasn’t really had an opportunity to see that, or what led to that in the first place.
LovelyMonsters
If it was revealed that a guy I knew kept a list of women at the university we attended ranked by fuckability, I would take that very personally. I get pretty offended when people view me as fuckstock.
So IS Joe capable of being friends with a woman? We have yet to see any evidence in his favor. Joyce befriended him, semi-forcibly, but as soon as it worked he stopped wanting to be friends with Joyce and started feeling the romance.
Cards on the table, I ship Joyce and Joe pretty hard, and I think in a world where they understand themselves a little better and aren’t so frightened of parts of themselves because of the terrible behavior of their respective parents, they’d make a great couple. They are SO cute together.
But they’re also both still recovering misogynists. Joyce has absolutely no sense of personal boundaries. Joe is so terrified he’s going to become a cheater that he might make it true. Joyce has some SERIOUS shame to work through about sex as a recovering Christian woman, not to mention trauma from an attempted rape, and Joe has absolutely no experience with sensitivity or care or love when it comes to sex, so obviously there are some nuclear incidents waiting to Occur. While I am SUPER into this plotline, I am also wincing hard in anticipation of a zero-survivors landing.
anon
i’d assume even without it being joe she wouldn’t necessarily wanting someone to butt into their lunch time/hangout considering she was feeling upset/underappreciated after joyce ‘begged’ her to spend more time together or so
Vanessa
True, she’s built up quite a bit of irritation at Joyce that she might be letting loose on this “jock himbo” she’s already disliked for years. I wonder if he made some nasty passes at her or maybe it was The List.
I’m worried about her transfer too.
DailyBrad
If he ever did, it’d have been pre-comic. I kinda get the impression she’s been off-limits to him for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being Joe is not a guy who’d make a pass at his best friend’s ex of a longterm relationship. Like, he doesn’t approve of cheating, and he doesn’t seem keen on “bro-code” violations, either, and that’d definitely be one.
Beyond that, she also knows him, or at least did, and she saw through a lot of his act before, even if I think Joyce has a more keen understanding of Joe these days. I don’t really feel like he’d even attempt it on her.
thejeff
But as his best friend’s girlfriend during high school, even if she was off-limits, she’s probably seen him at his worst. Not directed at her, but at every other attractive girl she knew.
Hat
Remember, she dated Danny for a while, and he is Joe’s best friend.
Notice how Dorothy and Joe have never been shown as friends? How much do you want to bet that Joe essentially went “This is a girl I have no chance or interest in having sex with, therefore she is irrelevant to me”
Dr. T
From her one line I’d say that she was more mad at Joe. I’d imagine that she would not trust Joe with Joyce at all, though I’m guessing that she was not aware that they went on a date previously.
Needfuldoer
That’s my guess, too. Dorothy probably thinks Joe’s playing some game to get into Joyce’s pants. She hasn’t been around to see New Joe, so she has no reason to trust his sincerity.
Maybe that’s why Joe and Amber’s stories came together, so she can corroborate his character growth as an uninvolved third party Dorothy would trust. She knows.
Yumi
Bro, this dork is so cute.
SeanR
Dotty is mad…when you’re being polite.
These two drive her crazy.
jeffepp
Now, that kind of hand holding is meant to turn into something more like cuddling.
anonymsly
I think this is Joyce testing her confidence a bit. No doubt she enjoys knowing exactly what’s going on and for once not being the last horse to cross the finish line, but that handhold in the last panel feels like reassurance to me. Like ‘I’m getting there, it’s definitely not no, I just want to get this right.’
It helps that Joe is 100% continuing to walk his talk from drawing class.
Wereg
Yuup. She’s clearly expressed wanting to “enjoy her view” and that she’ll think about things. The handholding is a great way of saying “just be patient” while also expressing that she’s more than comfortable with the situation right now.
This is good flirting.
DailyBrad
That’s my reading of it, yeah. She’s absolutely aware he like-likes her, and she seems resistant to slapping a label on what’s going on right now, but she’s definitely neither leading him on or dismissing it. I kinda get the impression she’s more than merely flattered, but that she’s stopping to smell the roses and appreciating this feeling for all it’s worth.
Needfuldoer
Joyce needs some positivity in her life right now, she deserves to enjoy it at her pace.
Wendy
Joyce, you’re so adorably autistic.
They are both adorable together.