You’ll never be president if you aren’t okay just being a morally bankrupt human being. That one exception you are thinking of was like a once in a country’s history type thing and besides, no, they murdered innocent civilians and separated families from their children.
Yeah, right after his friggin’ peanuts went friggin’ sour.
Freemage
Carter’s record depends on how much you want to blame him for second- and third-hand events. FREX, the most obvious misstep was funding the mujahideen rebels in Afghanistan–which ultimately led to the rise of the Taliban once the Soviets were driven out. There’s a number of lesser examples, as well, but exactly how many of those were predictable, let alone expected, side-effects of Carter’s policies is very hard to pin down.
Chomsky, of course, will tell you that Carter committed war crimes like every other President, though the examples I’ve seen him give were, frankly, unconvincing to me. Given that Chomsky echoes Putin’s talking points about Ukraine, I’m not sure I’m inclined to give him the credit I once would’ve.
GreyICE
Given the various atrocities that the Soviets were committing in Afghanistan, including mass murder, destruction of food supplies, mass land mining, etc.
… lets just say the Mujahadeen looked like the lesser of two evils.
I’m not big on American expansionism, but that’s no reason to give a pass to Soviet expansionism.
Freemage
Oh, I agree. I understand what led to the decision; most of Carter’s missteps, i would argue, are similar in nature, only really obvious in hindsight.
thejeff
One big issue with global geopolitics is that there often are no right moves. Whatever you do is going to look like a mistake in hindsight. After all, you only see how the path you took went wrong, not how the path you didn’t take would have gone wrong.
Not always true of course. There have definitely been some serious blunders.
HueSatLight
Backing Indonesia’s crimes against humanity in East Timor, just a whoopsie daisy that really needed decades of hindsite to realize that killing a quarter of the population is kind of sad-face-emoji.
I’ve plowed through three years of some good shit. High melodrama, but so far, Amber’s tone-poison father has not shown up, in person. Plus you get to see her take James Ryan Haywood to ribbons.
mindbleach
Three years, nineteen days later, Amber’s tone-poison father shows up in person. Bleugh.
At least I gained new appreciation for gags where a character violates the panel boundaries.
Walky was almost definitely teasing/joking when he referred to Joyce as “my girlfriend’s girlfriend” – being OK with a joke, and.being OK with your girlfriend teaching her crush to masturbate and holding her hand while she does it, then later sending her cleavage pics,may well be different…
mindbleach
I’m not sure Walky’s expressed any backpressure on Dorothy pursuing Joyce. At most he seems to bluntly remind her that he, himself, does not share her attraction. Dorothy outright proposed letting Joyce play voyeur and Walky’s snarky response amounted to ‘sure, why not.’ They’ve fallen asleep in a pile watching cartoons and the only one to freak out was Joyce.
Tan
Dorothy and Walky were NOT together when the washing machine incident happened (January 29, 2023 strip). Walky was still with Lucy at that time; they broke up in the December 20, 2023 strip. Even Dorothy and Joyce’s night out drinking (April 9-26, 2024 strips) was before Dorothy and Walky actually got back together (May 20, 2024 strip).
Only the selfie incident happened while Dorothy & Walky have been together.
Embe13
thank you for your work as this confirms what my head thought was the case.
Yeah, between that and yesterday’s crapping on people who lack binocular vision (we’re not that rare, bongo) I am so ready for Dorothy to spend the rest of the semester being the dorm outcast
“Crapping on?” She amended that statement about binocular vision immediately. Like, within the same panel.
hapax
Yes, she immediately “amended” it to make it All About Dorothy being a Good Person.
I know she’s widely beloved, but her honestly, her constant weird combination of self-righteousness and self-flagellation is uncomfortably reminiscent of the creepiest Church Ladies I’ve been unfortunate enough to know.
MarkConfidant
I think that might be you reading personal experiences into a character. And that using ‘this person has some similarities to bad people’ as the measuring stick for how kindly to read the intentions of fictional characters is a bad vibe.
3oranges
Not wanting to sound uninclusive or ableist is making things all about yourself now? Is it better to not care, or is the trick that you aren’t allowed to use the pronoun “I”?
hapax
Okay, look. I am both disabled and have many vision problems, including lacking vision in one eye.
I was fine with Danny’s joke. I was fine with Dorothy’s immediate response. I am fine with calling things “lame”, or saying “you’re blind to the facts.” I am disabled, not stupid – I UNDERSTAND METAPHOR.
What I am not fine with is people saying “That’s so lame – O GOSH HAPAX I DIDN’T MEAN YOU, THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING LAME!” Because that immediately signals that no, you *do* have a problem with me being lame, that you mentally put me in a box labelled “lame people”, who are stupid and oversensitive and need special coddling, and the most important thing to you is that nobody thinks you are a Bad Person What Labels People.
So yeah. Who the hell is Dorothy apologizing to, except her mental image of herself as someone who is Better Than That?
And that’s the encapsulation of this entire encounter with Danny. She really doesn’t care what Danny thinks or feels as an individual human beings. She just wants him to represent a category – the Slutty Cheating Bisexuals – and to grant absolution to her self-image.
And for that, I am fine with her sitting alone for the rest of the year.
Jerach
You know when you put it like that I do totally see just how shitty that kind of behavior from her is. I personally would hope for her to overcome her desire to present the appearance of giving a shit like a typical Democrat politician and actually learn how to just genuinely be decent. I get wanting her to just, have to deal with people being fed up with her for a bit though.
Arillius
As an autistic cripple with plenty of problems, you are wound WAY to tight. Dorothy has some implicit bias, same as ANYONE ELSE who doesn’t regularly act with the people that she accidentally forgot about. She then immediately realized that, pointed out her error, and moved on. That is a fine way to handle a misstep and its clear your dislike of the character is affecting your bias on how that interaction played out.
idk, I’m personally tired of Dorothy being caught in a doom spiral ever since Raidah challenged her preconceptions about becoming President. I’m not saying she should go try to mack on Joyce or that she shouldn’t feel at least a little bad about the titty pics, but dorm outcast is a little much.
see, that i’d get, but as a fellow connoisseur of Jewish guilt… “freaking out about sending your bestie a picture of your cleavage because you’ve just discovered bisexuality and now you’re afraid of committing retroactive mental adultery” has a distinctly Catholic palate to me
Proxiehunter
Or a distinctly moral OCD palate.
Cimorene
As a former Catholic who has worked at a Jewish Community Center I completely understand and agree.
My whole family is catholic (From Argentina where the pope is from!) and even though I was never to any kind of church service besides family baptism, I still spend a good part of my childhood and adolescence terrified that I was going to hell or that my dead relatives were going there. And this wasn’t because I was told about it constantly or anything, just the concept of eternal suffering by itself was enough to give panic attacks m no wonder I eventually turned atheist.
Ololo-518
I’m from country other pope was – Poland. I cannot describe how big of a figure John Paul II was here, so I’ll say only that it was so big, that at some point young people were so tired of his cult, that biggest meme number here is 21:37.
.
.
.
It’s the hour when he died.
Dorothy, my god, what on earth is your definition of cheating? Because unless there’s a little shit going on off-camera you really need to re-evaluate. You’re in thought-crimes territory here.
Some people actually have this “emotional cheating” belief going on. To my knowledge it’s strongly emphasized in a lot of US Christian groups so I’d expect to be hearing it more from Joyce. But it’s not JUST them.
I have never really fully understood the “emotional cheating” thing with thoughts. For one thing, I have seen way too many people go off the deep end on what they consider it to be (as in dreams and other things that people really can’t control). Also, it all seems to stem from one’s presumption of what is actually going on it someone else’s head. In this case, I would be more allowing of it, as it is the person themself being uncomfortable with their own thoughts and actions.
Considering I have heard stories from people of both genders bragging about dating several people at the same time without anyone them knowing (which just sounds exhausting without touching the moral questions personally), I do wonder how much of the concept of “emotionally cheating” is used as a defense for people who actually cheat. Blame their partner for emotionally cheating first type of thing.
The times where I have been more understanding of the concept tend to have more actions involved with them, such as spending more time and focus on a friend or coworker than the significant other. It can be a fine line sometimes, as if they are the primary contact person when the other is having a major panic or depression attack, they are obviously going to want to set things down and try to help. It can be complicated.
Nymphie
I just binged House a few weeks ago, and the story arc of Taub’s wife connecting with a guy in a support group for spouses with cheating partners is honestly the only good example I know of “emotional affair”.
Most example of emotional cheating i encounter is just, people being friends. It feels like it’s becoming a part of the abuse tactics to isolate your partner from their support network, to argue emotional cheating to guilt your partner to cut all contact with anyone that isn’t the abuser.
Emotional cheating isn’t “I had a naughty thought about someone” though. Emotional cheating is “I’m investing myself in this person romantically even though we’re not having sex. I have feelings for this person and I’m continuing to indulge in those feelings”, often at the expense of the relationship with the actual romantic partner. It’s a long-term priorities issue, not a once-off thoughtcrime issue.
It’s the action of repeatedly choosing to entangle emotionally with someone other than your partner. It can be an unclear line, sometimes, but it’s not just a made-up excuse to be mad.
Kimi
I guess that I just tend to hear people use it incorrectly. Not too surprising that people try to use it for their own purposes I guess. I tended to hear it used about dreams or other similar reasons. The one that I remember the best was the gal who wanted to keep her relationship on the down-low but had a fit anytime her boyfriend even smiled at someone else.
That being said, after being the lowest ranked person in the family for priority, I do understand how it can be frustrating.
I might also have issues with understanding the boundaries since it is harder for me to understand the line between friends and a partner. I get the prioritization issues, but the emotional entanglement is a bit unclear to my asexual leaning self. Maybe I am just missing a piece of the puzzle that is where clearly defined emotional boundaries should lie. I don’t know.
Nerrin
It’s absolutely a made-up excuse to be mad for some people, though. It’s a big Christian thing because of the whole “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife” bit, which gets pushed at its furthest to even regarding another person as attractive if you’re in a relationship with someone else. It’s a pretty standard gag in a lot of TV shows and such where, even if we don’t know the characters’ religion (if they’re religious at all), a woman will get pissed at her boyfriend’s or husband’s wandering gaze, no matter the frequency, intensity, or context.
Monogamy in our society is heavily saddled with an expectation that everyone is going to be incredibly possessive and women especially must also be perfectly loyal. Dorothy’s tripping into that hard, especially with her complex about having to be perfect in every way already.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Can you give some examples of emotionally entangling in a way that constitutes cheating? I’m not trying to disagree with you but would like to some perspective.
Kimi
From my personal experience (not with a relationship, but family), it gets really frustrating when you are going to spend time together with someone, like going out to dinner or watching a tv show or a movie, and it constantly gets interrupted by a phone call of this other person every single time. It makes you feel less valued than the other person. It isn’t normally a problem if it happens once or so, but when it starts happening every single time. Even then, it has to have been something that you talked to them about and then they ignore the agreement they made withh you about it. I personally think that you lose the bounds to get extremely mad at them if you have never even directly mentioned it to them before.
I have no idea if this is what Rowan meant. It is just where I could see there being a problem.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Thanks, that’s a good example that’s not what I was expecting. So in this sort of scenario, as I think I understand it, it’s about prioritizing more than having specific feelings – if you’re making time for someone else that was “supposed to” (per whatever understanding your relationship is built on) be time for your partner, that sends a message that they are not top priority for whatever it is. And I guess the reasons for doing it might matter too; if you’re prioritizing getting short-term rewarding new-relationship emotions over long-term rewarding old-relationship emotions (I can only assume that’s how it is), that seems like it’s essentially setting up a transition.
But our actions derive from our thoughts.
Obviously some people just cheat casually, but it’s common for many to build up to it emotionally by building an emotional connection over time before crossing whatever physical line actually counts for you as cheating.
Dorothy here has definitely gone well beyond just unbidden thoughts about Joyce – even without the action of sending lewds.
anonymsly
So she’s a terrible person for having thoughts? Thoughts so subconscious she didn’t even know she was having? She deserves to be labeled a cheater, to be lumped in with people who actually fuck someone else while in a relationship because she’s exactly the same?
No. There is room in the world for innocent mistakes.
Clif
There’s plenty of room in the world for innocent cheating.
thejeff
Chill out. She screwed up. The mistakes weren’t innocent, but they were mistakes. We don’t have to decide between her being a perfect innocent and a terrible monster.
She did a fairly minor bad thing. She needs to deal with it. Going into denial just makes things worse.
Preeetty sure she’s counting the titty pics as a form of infedelity. Which, y’know. Isn’t far out of the realm of the inaccurate.
She hasn’t been shtupping Joyce, no, but she’s crossed what she considers to be a sexual boundary in regards to the monogamous expectations of her relationship. And since she’s one of the two people responsible for defining those boundaries and expectatioms, I’m not inclined to argue with her.
Yeah. Like, I don’t know why people keep acting like cheating is only the literal physical action of sleeping with someone. If your partner (in a monogamous relationship) sent an inappropriate picture to someone, would you be okay with that? If you went to your Advice Person (Mom/Sibling/Friend) and told them that your partner did that, would that person not tell you to leave them?
Like, that’s not even getting into the can of worms that is Dorothy hiding it. Which like… I’m not sure this counts as hiding it, but when I do anything with potential for such grave misunderstandings, I usually go straight to my husband and tell him immediately. We know Dorothy is freaking out and scared, but the optics aren’t great.
Only Joe knows about this, but now it only remains to be seen what Dorothy will do later, yes, I love her but we can’t ignore the big mess she’s gotten herself into.
Nymph
People keep acting like that because, for them, that’s what constitutes cheating. The definition varies for everyone, and personally I think Dorothy is allowed a little leeway at the moment as she unpacks something about herself that is filled with all kinds of unconscious biases and negative knee-jerks.
If my partner sent naughty pics to someone on the path to a realization of bisexuality, I would be very understanding of the fact that human beings are messy and don’t always do the right thing. I would be more concerned about checking where we stood and what was needed from me to help support this new realization. I’d have boundaries, for sure, but they wouldn’t start and end at the first stupid mistake.
thejeff
I think that’s fair and I do think she’s allowed some leeway, but the key here is that she doesn’t think so. She thinks she’s crossed a line.
And while she’s given Walky apology sex, she hasn’t actually talked to him about it, at least on panel. Which is a further problem, though certainly not an unsurmountable one.
540 thoughts on “Comforting body contact”
Taffy
Get her ass, Danny.
Dana
As he said, even accidentally, that wouldn’t be great.
Clif
But Dorothy. Think! This means you could be president after all.
Risky
You’ll never be president if you aren’t okay just being a morally bankrupt human being. That one exception you are thinking of was like a once in a country’s history type thing and besides, no, they murdered innocent civilians and separated families from their children.
anonymsly
….Jimmy Carter didn’t do that, did he?
Taffy
Yeah, right after his friggin’ peanuts went friggin’ sour.
Freemage
Carter’s record depends on how much you want to blame him for second- and third-hand events. FREX, the most obvious misstep was funding the mujahideen rebels in Afghanistan–which ultimately led to the rise of the Taliban once the Soviets were driven out. There’s a number of lesser examples, as well, but exactly how many of those were predictable, let alone expected, side-effects of Carter’s policies is very hard to pin down.
Chomsky, of course, will tell you that Carter committed war crimes like every other President, though the examples I’ve seen him give were, frankly, unconvincing to me. Given that Chomsky echoes Putin’s talking points about Ukraine, I’m not sure I’m inclined to give him the credit I once would’ve.
GreyICE
Given the various atrocities that the Soviets were committing in Afghanistan, including mass murder, destruction of food supplies, mass land mining, etc.
… lets just say the Mujahadeen looked like the lesser of two evils.
I’m not big on American expansionism, but that’s no reason to give a pass to Soviet expansionism.
Freemage
Oh, I agree. I understand what led to the decision; most of Carter’s missteps, i would argue, are similar in nature, only really obvious in hindsight.
thejeff
One big issue with global geopolitics is that there often are no right moves. Whatever you do is going to look like a mistake in hindsight. After all, you only see how the path you took went wrong, not how the path you didn’t take would have gone wrong.
Not always true of course. There have definitely been some serious blunders.
HueSatLight
Backing Indonesia’s crimes against humanity in East Timor, just a whoopsie daisy that really needed decades of hindsite to realize that killing a quarter of the population is kind of sad-face-emoji.
NGPZ
honestly I just can’t wait to see what Walky’s reaction to this gonna be XD
jpnr
“I FUCKING KNEW IT’
followed by “ARE YOU BREAKING UP WITH ME”
Deanatay
I think technically they are already broken up? What’s goin on between them now hasn’t really been acknowledged or given a name.
morleuca
As of December 24th Walky is referred to as Dorothy’s boyfriend in a conversation between Fororhy and Jocelyn
Nono
“Really? Joyce? I’d have understood if it was Joe, you could bounce a quarter off his ass.”
mindbleach
“Yeah no shit.”
I’ve been re-reading from The Context Link and Walky once called Joyce “my girlfriend’s girlfriend.”
He also immediately offered sexual favors to Jason, while we’re on the subject.
True Survivor
That’s nuts. With that accent, its obviously Jason who would doing Walky the favor.
Also, what is The Context Link?
mindbleach
A few days ago when Danny called this whole interaction, several people linked to the incoming flashback.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/kinsey/
I’ve plowed through three years of some good shit. High melodrama, but so far, Amber’s tone-poison father has not shown up, in person. Plus you get to see her take James Ryan Haywood to ribbons.
mindbleach
Three years, nineteen days later, Amber’s tone-poison father shows up in person. Bleugh.
At least I gained new appreciation for gags where a character violates the panel boundaries.
Miri
Walky was almost definitely teasing/joking when he referred to Joyce as “my girlfriend’s girlfriend” – being OK with a joke, and.being OK with your girlfriend teaching her crush to masturbate and holding her hand while she does it, then later sending her cleavage pics,may well be different…
mindbleach
I’m not sure Walky’s expressed any backpressure on Dorothy pursuing Joyce. At most he seems to bluntly remind her that he, himself, does not share her attraction. Dorothy outright proposed letting Joyce play voyeur and Walky’s snarky response amounted to ‘sure, why not.’ They’ve fallen asleep in a pile watching cartoons and the only one to freak out was Joyce.
Tan
Dorothy and Walky were NOT together when the washing machine incident happened (January 29, 2023 strip). Walky was still with Lucy at that time; they broke up in the December 20, 2023 strip. Even Dorothy and Joyce’s night out drinking (April 9-26, 2024 strips) was before Dorothy and Walky actually got back together (May 20, 2024 strip).
Only the selfie incident happened while Dorothy & Walky have been together.
Embe13
thank you for your work as this confirms what my head thought was the case.
Clif
See. Retroactive cheating!
Doopyboop
Thank you, Danny. I hate the ‘cheating bisexual’ stereotype.
hapax
Yeah, between that and yesterday’s crapping on people who lack binocular vision (we’re not that rare, bongo) I am so ready for Dorothy to spend the rest of the semester being the dorm outcast
Jon
“Crapping on?” She amended that statement about binocular vision immediately. Like, within the same panel.
hapax
Yes, she immediately “amended” it to make it All About Dorothy being a Good Person.
I know she’s widely beloved, but her honestly, her constant weird combination of self-righteousness and self-flagellation is uncomfortably reminiscent of the creepiest Church Ladies I’ve been unfortunate enough to know.
MarkConfidant
I think that might be you reading personal experiences into a character. And that using ‘this person has some similarities to bad people’ as the measuring stick for how kindly to read the intentions of fictional characters is a bad vibe.
3oranges
Not wanting to sound uninclusive or ableist is making things all about yourself now? Is it better to not care, or is the trick that you aren’t allowed to use the pronoun “I”?
hapax
Okay, look. I am both disabled and have many vision problems, including lacking vision in one eye.
I was fine with Danny’s joke. I was fine with Dorothy’s immediate response. I am fine with calling things “lame”, or saying “you’re blind to the facts.” I am disabled, not stupid – I UNDERSTAND METAPHOR.
What I am not fine with is people saying “That’s so lame – O GOSH HAPAX I DIDN’T MEAN YOU, THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING LAME!” Because that immediately signals that no, you *do* have a problem with me being lame, that you mentally put me in a box labelled “lame people”, who are stupid and oversensitive and need special coddling, and the most important thing to you is that nobody thinks you are a Bad Person What Labels People.
So yeah. Who the hell is Dorothy apologizing to, except her mental image of herself as someone who is Better Than That?
And that’s the encapsulation of this entire encounter with Danny. She really doesn’t care what Danny thinks or feels as an individual human beings. She just wants him to represent a category – the Slutty Cheating Bisexuals – and to grant absolution to her self-image.
And for that, I am fine with her sitting alone for the rest of the year.
Jerach
You know when you put it like that I do totally see just how shitty that kind of behavior from her is. I personally would hope for her to overcome her desire to present the appearance of giving a shit like a typical Democrat politician and actually learn how to just genuinely be decent. I get wanting her to just, have to deal with people being fed up with her for a bit though.
Arillius
As an autistic cripple with plenty of problems, you are wound WAY to tight. Dorothy has some implicit bias, same as ANYONE ELSE who doesn’t regularly act with the people that she accidentally forgot about. She then immediately realized that, pointed out her error, and moved on. That is a fine way to handle a misstep and its clear your dislike of the character is affecting your bias on how that interaction played out.
Proto
idk, I’m personally tired of Dorothy being caught in a doom spiral ever since Raidah challenged her preconceptions about becoming President. I’m not saying she should go try to mack on Joyce or that she shouldn’t feel at least a little bad about the titty pics, but dorm outcast is a little much.
Freezer
Given Dorothy’s tendency towards self-flagellation, it not surprising (if a bit disappointing) that she’d lock on to the “bisexual slut” trope.
butts
jesus christ, Dorothy, for someone who was raised areligiously you have a distinctly Catholic taste for unearned guilt
MM
You cannot escape the six thousand plus years of legacy just by skipping shul. Trust me.
Charles Phipps
I think that may be a bit older (about 3 times) than the Catholic Church.
butts
see, that i’d get, but as a fellow connoisseur of Jewish guilt… “freaking out about sending your bestie a picture of your cleavage because you’ve just discovered bisexuality and now you’re afraid of committing retroactive mental adultery” has a distinctly Catholic palate to me
Proxiehunter
Or a distinctly moral OCD palate.
Cimorene
As a former Catholic who has worked at a Jewish Community Center I completely understand and agree.
Thag Simmons
Man, I think it’s in the blood. I’ve got it and I’m a couple generations lapsed.
Jeremiah
My whole family is catholic (From Argentina where the pope is from!) and even though I was never to any kind of church service besides family baptism, I still spend a good part of my childhood and adolescence terrified that I was going to hell or that my dead relatives were going there. And this wasn’t because I was told about it constantly or anything, just the concept of eternal suffering by itself was enough to give panic attacks m no wonder I eventually turned atheist.
Ololo-518
I’m from country other pope was – Poland. I cannot describe how big of a figure John Paul II was here, so I’ll say only that it was so big, that at some point young people were so tired of his cult, that biggest meme number here is 21:37.
.
.
.
It’s the hour when he died.
Deanatay
What, no love for Ratzinger?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Chubseus
Glad it’s not just me who’s been feeling the catholic guilt vibes coming off of Dorothy.
NGPZ
yeah, Dorothy demonstrates to us once again that “Christian Atheist” ain’t an oxymoron XD
CidGregor
Dorothy, my god, what on earth is your definition of cheating? Because unless there’s a little shit going on off-camera you really need to re-evaluate. You’re in thought-crimes territory here.
Nerrin
Some people actually have this “emotional cheating” belief going on. To my knowledge it’s strongly emphasized in a lot of US Christian groups so I’d expect to be hearing it more from Joyce. But it’s not JUST them.
Kimi
I have never really fully understood the “emotional cheating” thing with thoughts. For one thing, I have seen way too many people go off the deep end on what they consider it to be (as in dreams and other things that people really can’t control). Also, it all seems to stem from one’s presumption of what is actually going on it someone else’s head. In this case, I would be more allowing of it, as it is the person themself being uncomfortable with their own thoughts and actions.
Considering I have heard stories from people of both genders bragging about dating several people at the same time without anyone them knowing (which just sounds exhausting without touching the moral questions personally), I do wonder how much of the concept of “emotionally cheating” is used as a defense for people who actually cheat. Blame their partner for emotionally cheating first type of thing.
The times where I have been more understanding of the concept tend to have more actions involved with them, such as spending more time and focus on a friend or coworker than the significant other. It can be a fine line sometimes, as if they are the primary contact person when the other is having a major panic or depression attack, they are obviously going to want to set things down and try to help. It can be complicated.
Nymphie
I just binged House a few weeks ago, and the story arc of Taub’s wife connecting with a guy in a support group for spouses with cheating partners is honestly the only good example I know of “emotional affair”.
Most example of emotional cheating i encounter is just, people being friends. It feels like it’s becoming a part of the abuse tactics to isolate your partner from their support network, to argue emotional cheating to guilt your partner to cut all contact with anyone that isn’t the abuser.
Levantoni
And once again, we have a coincidental parallel here: https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5540
… For the last few days, they really bounce well together and off of each other……
Clif
No. No. Don’t you understand? She just cheated on Joyce with Walky.
anonymsly
Dorothy is not and never has been Joyce’s girlfriend.
Clif
Walky begs to differ.
rowanmikaio
Emotional cheating isn’t “I had a naughty thought about someone” though. Emotional cheating is “I’m investing myself in this person romantically even though we’re not having sex. I have feelings for this person and I’m continuing to indulge in those feelings”, often at the expense of the relationship with the actual romantic partner. It’s a long-term priorities issue, not a once-off thoughtcrime issue.
It’s the action of repeatedly choosing to entangle emotionally with someone other than your partner. It can be an unclear line, sometimes, but it’s not just a made-up excuse to be mad.
Kimi
I guess that I just tend to hear people use it incorrectly. Not too surprising that people try to use it for their own purposes I guess. I tended to hear it used about dreams or other similar reasons. The one that I remember the best was the gal who wanted to keep her relationship on the down-low but had a fit anytime her boyfriend even smiled at someone else.
That being said, after being the lowest ranked person in the family for priority, I do understand how it can be frustrating.
I might also have issues with understanding the boundaries since it is harder for me to understand the line between friends and a partner. I get the prioritization issues, but the emotional entanglement is a bit unclear to my asexual leaning self. Maybe I am just missing a piece of the puzzle that is where clearly defined emotional boundaries should lie. I don’t know.
Nerrin
It’s absolutely a made-up excuse to be mad for some people, though. It’s a big Christian thing because of the whole “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife” bit, which gets pushed at its furthest to even regarding another person as attractive if you’re in a relationship with someone else. It’s a pretty standard gag in a lot of TV shows and such where, even if we don’t know the characters’ religion (if they’re religious at all), a woman will get pissed at her boyfriend’s or husband’s wandering gaze, no matter the frequency, intensity, or context.
Monogamy in our society is heavily saddled with an expectation that everyone is going to be incredibly possessive and women especially must also be perfectly loyal. Dorothy’s tripping into that hard, especially with her complex about having to be perfect in every way already.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Can you give some examples of emotionally entangling in a way that constitutes cheating? I’m not trying to disagree with you but would like to some perspective.
Kimi
From my personal experience (not with a relationship, but family), it gets really frustrating when you are going to spend time together with someone, like going out to dinner or watching a tv show or a movie, and it constantly gets interrupted by a phone call of this other person every single time. It makes you feel less valued than the other person. It isn’t normally a problem if it happens once or so, but when it starts happening every single time. Even then, it has to have been something that you talked to them about and then they ignore the agreement they made withh you about it. I personally think that you lose the bounds to get extremely mad at them if you have never even directly mentioned it to them before.
I have no idea if this is what Rowan meant. It is just where I could see there being a problem.
Dwampre Scorrigank
Thanks, that’s a good example that’s not what I was expecting. So in this sort of scenario, as I think I understand it, it’s about prioritizing more than having specific feelings – if you’re making time for someone else that was “supposed to” (per whatever understanding your relationship is built on) be time for your partner, that sends a message that they are not top priority for whatever it is. And I guess the reasons for doing it might matter too; if you’re prioritizing getting short-term rewarding new-relationship emotions over long-term rewarding old-relationship emotions (I can only assume that’s how it is), that seems like it’s essentially setting up a transition.
Cholma
Yep. I’ve never understood being upset about thoughts. ACTIONS are the problem, not THOUGHTS. (which usually come to you unbidden anyway)
thejeff
But our actions derive from our thoughts.
Obviously some people just cheat casually, but it’s common for many to build up to it emotionally by building an emotional connection over time before crossing whatever physical line actually counts for you as cheating.
Dorothy here has definitely gone well beyond just unbidden thoughts about Joyce – even without the action of sending lewds.
anonymsly
So she’s a terrible person for having thoughts? Thoughts so subconscious she didn’t even know she was having? She deserves to be labeled a cheater, to be lumped in with people who actually fuck someone else while in a relationship because she’s exactly the same?
No. There is room in the world for innocent mistakes.
Clif
There’s plenty of room in the world for innocent cheating.
thejeff
Chill out. She screwed up. The mistakes weren’t innocent, but they were mistakes. We don’t have to decide between her being a perfect innocent and a terrible monster.
She did a fairly minor bad thing. She needs to deal with it. Going into denial just makes things worse.
Cheshrin
Preeetty sure she’s counting the titty pics as a form of infedelity. Which, y’know. Isn’t far out of the realm of the inaccurate.
She hasn’t been shtupping Joyce, no, but she’s crossed what she considers to be a sexual boundary in regards to the monogamous expectations of her relationship. And since she’s one of the two people responsible for defining those boundaries and expectatioms, I’m not inclined to argue with her.
Bittersweet
Yeah. Like, I don’t know why people keep acting like cheating is only the literal physical action of sleeping with someone. If your partner (in a monogamous relationship) sent an inappropriate picture to someone, would you be okay with that? If you went to your Advice Person (Mom/Sibling/Friend) and told them that your partner did that, would that person not tell you to leave them?
Like, that’s not even getting into the can of worms that is Dorothy hiding it. Which like… I’m not sure this counts as hiding it, but when I do anything with potential for such grave misunderstandings, I usually go straight to my husband and tell him immediately. We know Dorothy is freaking out and scared, but the optics aren’t great.
Coatl
Only Joe knows about this, but now it only remains to be seen what Dorothy will do later, yes, I love her but we can’t ignore the big mess she’s gotten herself into.
Nymph
People keep acting like that because, for them, that’s what constitutes cheating. The definition varies for everyone, and personally I think Dorothy is allowed a little leeway at the moment as she unpacks something about herself that is filled with all kinds of unconscious biases and negative knee-jerks.
If my partner sent naughty pics to someone on the path to a realization of bisexuality, I would be very understanding of the fact that human beings are messy and don’t always do the right thing. I would be more concerned about checking where we stood and what was needed from me to help support this new realization. I’d have boundaries, for sure, but they wouldn’t start and end at the first stupid mistake.
thejeff
I think that’s fair and I do think she’s allowed some leeway, but the key here is that she doesn’t think so. She thinks she’s crossed a line.
And while she’s given Walky apology sex, she hasn’t actually talked to him about it, at least on panel. Which is a further problem, though certainly not an unsurmountable one.