There is a concept that the King has two bodies: the actual physical body, and the body of the state. One is transitory, and the other is eternal. Hence “the king is dead, long live the king.”
HermesParsifal
“You all is plural, if there’s only one just say you.” -Michael Reno Harell- Souther Suggestions.
Northerner here with a serious question: If y’all is singular, what does that make “all y’all”? Or is the latter something Hollywood etc have made up?
AutobotDen
“Y’all” is plural. “All y’all” means “All of you here.” I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL, FIGHT ME.
Marsh Maryrose
“Y’all” can be associative plural, e.g. you’re talking to one person but you mean “you and your family,” “you and your friends,” you and your schoolmates,” etc.
True singular “y’all” is mostly a product of non-Southern writers not understanding the concept of “associative plural,” but my Jackson-born linguist friend tells me it occasionally makes an appearance in border states.
desolation0
yinz just can’t stop
Ryek Hvek
Wikipedia credits both Yinz and Y’all as having Scots-Irish roots. What never shows up in a web search for a western Pennsylvania speech curiosity is “Yull” (rhymes with lull)
Norah
I keep hearing “yinz” as being Western Pennsylvania, but my former boss occasionally says “yinz” or maybe “yiz” and he’s from the Philadelphia area (I believe he grew up in rural New Jersey but was close to Philly.) Is that a thing, or is he just an outlier?
Crusading Barista
So, Ryek Hvek is saying that the Southerners originally came from Ireland or Scotland?
I thought people lived in the south and Southerners came out of nowhere.
Ryek Hvek
Speech, no matter where it’s spoken, is more likely to have a traceable origin, than it is to have emerged spontaneously where spoken. To keep it comics connected, one prominent character in the history of Texas, as documented by Jack Jackson, was definitely of Scots origin, and the state does have a Robertson County.
TomHCinMI
What all the actual Southrons and actual linguists said.
Not even one thing the actual Yankees said.
Marsh Maryrose
So you’re saying that my friend who was born and raised in Jackson, MS (and whose childhood neighbor was Eudora Welty), and who taught at MSU in Starkville until she retired, and who is a linguist who specializes in American dialects — didn’t know what she was talking about?
As best I understand it, the appropriate thing to say here would be “Bless your heart,” but it’s not my dialect and I don’t really know.
He Who Abides
Yeah, “Bless your heart” is the proper response here.
Z
“I’ll pray for you” is also a solid response.
Michelle J. Caboose
I’ve lived almost my entire life in south Texas, and I have NEVER heard anyone in real life say “Y’all” to mean one person.
Needfuldoer
But then where does “y’alls” fit in?
Rectilinear Propagation
That’s possessive.
Ex: “Y’all’s dog keeps barking.”
Adam Black
But,
What if you are talking to someone in second person who considers themselves gender fluid/multigender…
And uses “They/ Them” pronouns?
Michelle J. Caboose
But… How does that relate to saying “you?” I mean, I don’t care what pronouns a person uses, you don’t call them “they” when you’re talking TO them.
motorfirebox
It’s emphatic. Same as referring to a group as “you” or “all of you”.
Khantalas
Y’all should never ever be singular, since it’s pretty much a reaction to you taking on the meaning of the now-defunct thou, the second person singular. Language is already confusing and frustrating for my brain, please don’t make the parts that make sense not make sense.
Huehuetotl
I think singular y’all is a Texas dialectal thing, with all y’all being plural. In most other dialects of American English with y’all (or you-all), it’s plural. Something I’ve noticed, but haven’t seen anything academic on, is they-all as plural they.
Marsh Maryrose
I’m reaching way out of my depth here, but in a way Texas is to dialects what California is to geology. There are just so many overlays from so many different directions.
Molly Ivins: “The first real Texan I ever saw on TV was King of the Hill‘s Boomhauer, the guy who’s always drinking beer and you can’t understand a word he says.”
Clif
I’m from Texas. Y’all are over thinking this.
TachyonCode
Microclimates would probably be a little more appropriate an analogy, given the geological analogy implies geological timescales are a factor in the mixing of dialects. Which, in general, they are not.
But as long as we’re mincing words (which is after all the source of dialects), the source of “y’all” is slurred speech. It’s a contraction. It doesn’t need a singular origin, because anyone can easily invent it independently of awareness of its common use.
I did that as a kid on the West Coast.
Michelle J. Caboose
<– Texas native. "Y'all" is definitely NOT singular here. People saying "y'all" to mean one person get funny looks and sometimes laughed at, depending on how much of a fake Texas drawl is being used to deliver it.
Freezer
To be fair: I am a lifelong southerner and I’ve never heard anyone use “y’all singlular” who wasn’t from elsewhere.
I may or may not have used “y’alls” before. The y’all I see at work and the y’all I talk to socially are two separate y’alls, and it would be nice if y’all could kindly keep it that way.
Norah
I think he might’ve meant Amber and Amzi-Girl.
Norah
Amazi-Girl, not Amzi.
All-Purpose Guru
Given that Amazi-Girl refers to herself as “us” two panels before, Walky’s use of “y’all” is correct. Amazi-Girl sees herself as two different people.
David
No, Amazi-Girl sees herself as one person and Amber as another. They share a distant history and a body. And apparently a whole lot of fighting skills and reflexes so it’s not like their brain’s capacity is overtaxed.
thejeff
Well, the fighting skills make sense. The muscle memory and reflexes would certainly carry over, even if they hadn’t been sharing memories when they learned those skills.
kendermouse
I have to agree that Walky was referring to the collective sharing the body, in which case, his use of y’all is correct.
All-Purpose Guru
Uh, @David, panel 3, Amazi-Girl calls themselves “us” in referring to both Amber and Amazi-Girl.
JetstreamGW
The part of me that was raised in Texas understands that y’all is very often used in the singular, regardless of how many southerners claim that it never ever is 😛
Matthew Davis
As a Californian who has taught Texans, this is not only true, but they also are so damn _proud_ of it.
Michelle J. Caboose
I have never heard any fellow Texan who was proud of doing any such thing. I HAVE heard plenty of Texans bongo about people who use it in the singular.
In fact, at work, a bunch of us who were born and raised here had to educate someone from up north about how “y’all” is not singular, because they’d only ever heard it used on TV and in movies.
You do hear that said. But it doesn’t seem to be true in most places that use “y’all”, according to most people who’ve looked into it. Instead “all y’all” is usually, and very simply, “all of y’all”.
Y’all, you all, is for more than one and alla y’all, all of you all, means everyone.
TachyonCode
“All y’all” has a reliance on nonverbal cues, in the way that this entire family of noncount pronouns (including “y’all” and “you”) also does.
You (and by extension, any observers) must be aware of your audience’s composition in order to determine whether any of these terms is singular, plural, or includes all present parties besides the speaker.
The reason there is variance in the use and therefore implied plurality of these terms is because the context in which one’s dialogue is composed dictates the level of specificity these terms are assigned. Otherwise there would be no variance, as with “me”, “him”, “her”, and “it”.
TachyonCode
Similar case with the TES phrase “this one”, that is used by Khajit. If you were lacking context, you could easily miss the fact that it refers to the speaker, and might assume they were indicating an item or another person.
Contextual relevance is why people gesture when they speak. It’s because their language lacks a certain degree of specificity.
Roborat
See, this is why I love this forum. It starts as an interesting discussion about dialect in the American south, and ends up talking about how cat people from an old computer game (which I just happen to have started playing recently) talk about themselves in the third person.
I’d wonder if this was the most interesting tangent I created, but there was one that apparently exploded into something so terrible that Willis had to bring down the ban hammer and erase most of it ? (unfortunately? I have no idea what happened)
200 thoughts on “Partitions”
Ana Chronistic
“would it help if I specified the plural y’all or singlar y’all”
“no”
Khantalas
Not only would it not help in this context, it would not help in any context conceivable by humanity.
BiOnyx
The part of me that was raised in the South winces everytime someone uses “y’all” in the singular sense.
It just… hurts.
Khantalas
I wasn’t even raised in the US of A, and why on Earth would you ever use y’all in the singular, the mind boggles.
Ana Chronistic
Explain the royal use of singular “we”
Matthew Davis
There is a concept that the King has two bodies: the actual physical body, and the body of the state. One is transitory, and the other is eternal. Hence “the king is dead, long live the king.”
HermesParsifal
“You all is plural, if there’s only one just say you.” -Michael Reno Harell- Souther Suggestions.
ValdVin
Northerner here with a serious question: If y’all is singular, what does that make “all y’all”? Or is the latter something Hollywood etc have made up?
AutobotDen
“Y’all” is plural. “All y’all” means “All of you here.” I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL, FIGHT ME.
Marsh Maryrose
“Y’all” can be associative plural, e.g. you’re talking to one person but you mean “you and your family,” “you and your friends,” you and your schoolmates,” etc.
True singular “y’all” is mostly a product of non-Southern writers not understanding the concept of “associative plural,” but my Jackson-born linguist friend tells me it occasionally makes an appearance in border states.
desolation0
yinz just can’t stop
Ryek Hvek
Wikipedia credits both Yinz and Y’all as having Scots-Irish roots. What never shows up in a web search for a western Pennsylvania speech curiosity is “Yull” (rhymes with lull)
Norah
I keep hearing “yinz” as being Western Pennsylvania, but my former boss occasionally says “yinz” or maybe “yiz” and he’s from the Philadelphia area (I believe he grew up in rural New Jersey but was close to Philly.) Is that a thing, or is he just an outlier?
Crusading Barista
So, Ryek Hvek is saying that the Southerners originally came from Ireland or Scotland?
I thought people lived in the south and Southerners came out of nowhere.
Ryek Hvek
Speech, no matter where it’s spoken, is more likely to have a traceable origin, than it is to have emerged spontaneously where spoken. To keep it comics connected, one prominent character in the history of Texas, as documented by Jack Jackson, was definitely of Scots origin, and the state does have a Robertson County.
TomHCinMI
What all the actual Southrons and actual linguists said.
Not even one thing the actual Yankees said.
Marsh Maryrose
So you’re saying that my friend who was born and raised in Jackson, MS (and whose childhood neighbor was Eudora Welty), and who taught at MSU in Starkville until she retired, and who is a linguist who specializes in American dialects — didn’t know what she was talking about?
As best I understand it, the appropriate thing to say here would be “Bless your heart,” but it’s not my dialect and I don’t really know.
He Who Abides
Yeah, “Bless your heart” is the proper response here.
Z
“I’ll pray for you” is also a solid response.
Michelle J. Caboose
I’ve lived almost my entire life in south Texas, and I have NEVER heard anyone in real life say “Y’all” to mean one person.
Needfuldoer
But then where does “y’alls” fit in?
Rectilinear Propagation
That’s possessive.
Ex: “Y’all’s dog keeps barking.”
Adam Black
But,
What if you are talking to someone in second person who considers themselves gender fluid/multigender…
And uses “They/ Them” pronouns?
Michelle J. Caboose
But… How does that relate to saying “you?” I mean, I don’t care what pronouns a person uses, you don’t call them “they” when you’re talking TO them.
motorfirebox
It’s emphatic. Same as referring to a group as “you” or “all of you”.
Khantalas
Y’all should never ever be singular, since it’s pretty much a reaction to you taking on the meaning of the now-defunct thou, the second person singular. Language is already confusing and frustrating for my brain, please don’t make the parts that make sense not make sense.
Huehuetotl
I think singular y’all is a Texas dialectal thing, with all y’all being plural. In most other dialects of American English with y’all (or you-all), it’s plural. Something I’ve noticed, but haven’t seen anything academic on, is they-all as plural they.
Marsh Maryrose
I’m reaching way out of my depth here, but in a way Texas is to dialects what California is to geology. There are just so many overlays from so many different directions.
Molly Ivins: “The first real Texan I ever saw on TV was King of the Hill‘s Boomhauer, the guy who’s always drinking beer and you can’t understand a word he says.”
Clif
I’m from Texas. Y’all are over thinking this.
TachyonCode
Microclimates would probably be a little more appropriate an analogy, given the geological analogy implies geological timescales are a factor in the mixing of dialects. Which, in general, they are not.
But as long as we’re mincing words (which is after all the source of dialects), the source of “y’all” is slurred speech. It’s a contraction. It doesn’t need a singular origin, because anyone can easily invent it independently of awareness of its common use.
I did that as a kid on the West Coast.
Michelle J. Caboose
<– Texas native. "Y'all" is definitely NOT singular here. People saying "y'all" to mean one person get funny looks and sometimes laughed at, depending on how much of a fake Texas drawl is being used to deliver it.
Freezer
To be fair: I am a lifelong southerner and I’ve never heard anyone use “y’all singlular” who wasn’t from elsewhere.
Reltzik
So you want plural y’all? As in, y’alls?
*flees for dear abomination-uttering life*
Delicious Taffy
I may or may not have used “y’alls” before. The y’all I see at work and the y’all I talk to socially are two separate y’alls, and it would be nice if y’all could kindly keep it that way.
Norah
I think he might’ve meant Amber and Amzi-Girl.
Norah
Amazi-Girl, not Amzi.
All-Purpose Guru
Given that Amazi-Girl refers to herself as “us” two panels before, Walky’s use of “y’all” is correct. Amazi-Girl sees herself as two different people.
David
No, Amazi-Girl sees herself as one person and Amber as another. They share a distant history and a body. And apparently a whole lot of fighting skills and reflexes so it’s not like their brain’s capacity is overtaxed.
thejeff
Well, the fighting skills make sense. The muscle memory and reflexes would certainly carry over, even if they hadn’t been sharing memories when they learned those skills.
kendermouse
I have to agree that Walky was referring to the collective sharing the body, in which case, his use of y’all is correct.
All-Purpose Guru
Uh, @David, panel 3, Amazi-Girl calls themselves “us” in referring to both Amber and Amazi-Girl.
JetstreamGW
The part of me that was raised in Texas understands that y’all is very often used in the singular, regardless of how many southerners claim that it never ever is 😛
Matthew Davis
As a Californian who has taught Texans, this is not only true, but they also are so damn _proud_ of it.
Michelle J. Caboose
I have never heard any fellow Texan who was proud of doing any such thing. I HAVE heard plenty of Texans bongo about people who use it in the singular.
In fact, at work, a bunch of us who were born and raised here had to educate someone from up north about how “y’all” is not singular, because they’d only ever heard it used on TV and in movies.
Proxiehunter
Y’all is the singular. All y’all is plural. It’s for when there’s more than one of y’all.
3oranges
You do hear that said. But it doesn’t seem to be true in most places that use “y’all”, according to most people who’ve looked into it. Instead “all y’all” is usually, and very simply, “all of y’all”.
All-Purpose Guru
No. Y’all is plural. We have a word for singular y’all. It’s “you”.
“All y’all” is “all of you”.
All-Purpose Guru
UCH.
“All y’all” is “All of you where ‘you’ is plural.”
Rectilinear Propagation
Y’all, you all, is for more than one and alla y’all, all of you all, means everyone.
TachyonCode
“All y’all” has a reliance on nonverbal cues, in the way that this entire family of noncount pronouns (including “y’all” and “you”) also does.
You (and by extension, any observers) must be aware of your audience’s composition in order to determine whether any of these terms is singular, plural, or includes all present parties besides the speaker.
The reason there is variance in the use and therefore implied plurality of these terms is because the context in which one’s dialogue is composed dictates the level of specificity these terms are assigned. Otherwise there would be no variance, as with “me”, “him”, “her”, and “it”.
TachyonCode
Similar case with the TES phrase “this one”, that is used by Khajit. If you were lacking context, you could easily miss the fact that it refers to the speaker, and might assume they were indicating an item or another person.
Contextual relevance is why people gesture when they speak. It’s because their language lacks a certain degree of specificity.
Roborat
See, this is why I love this forum. It starts as an interesting discussion about dialect in the American south, and ends up talking about how cat people from an old computer game (which I just happen to have started playing recently) talk about themselves in the third person.
Ana Chronistic
I’d wonder if this was the most interesting tangent I created, but there was one that apparently exploded into something so terrible that Willis had to bring down the ban hammer and erase most of it ? (unfortunately? I have no idea what happened)
Roborat
Canadian here, so my only understanding is through reading, but I always understood “Y’all” to be either singular or plural, depending on context?
catspaw66
Y’all is singular, all y’all is plural
BiOnyx
So say we all, Walky.
So say we all.
…or maybe it’s just me.
Doctor_Who
This makes me think, we have y’all as a word, why does no one use w’all?
So say w’all.
DSL
The people who say “y’all” for second-person plural say, for first-person plural, “we-uns.” Not to be confused with “weenus.”
BarerMender
People who use “we uns” usually say “you uns” for 2nd person plural.
Needfuldoer
Maybe because ‘wall’ is already a dictionary word?
anonamousethatscurriesinthedarkness
I doubt those who coined the word were ever anywhere near a dictionary.
Roborat
Be nice, they might have burned it for heat.
All-Purpose Guru
In Texas right now it’s about 980 degrees. We’re not burnin’ ANYTHING for heat, thankyewverymuch.
Michelle J. Caboose
Yeah, more like burning IN the heat. Sheesh. At least today it only got up to 95.
Yeah, “only.” Again, sheesh.
All-Purpose Guru
I like this.
bearfuz
Horny For Y’all might make a good band name.
Or not.
Doctor_Who
In my life, I have owned albums by the Barenaked Ladies, the Butthole Surfers, and Hootie and the Blowfish.
Horny For Y’all would fit right in.
Roborat
Actually it would be on the end.
King Daniel
Get with the times. It’s horny-for-yall.tumblr.com.
3oranges
Getting with the times, I’m not so sure tumblr would still go for that.
kendermouse
The NSFW ban led to them going after visual nudity, not words, or urls. I’ve seen way worse than “horny-for-yall” as a url, believe you me.
Woomy
I follow several erotic tumblr blogs that just consist of naughty words with zero context
Needfuldoer
Wouldn’t it be a Soundcloud account if it’s a band name?
That would be a perfect follow-up to a tweet taking off.
Stephen Bierce
*plays The Police’s “Hungry For You” on the hacked P.A. speakers*
Stephen Bierce
I never took French in any school.