So, it’s not often that the dad in one of these stories is the one to take a step back and ask important questions, cover for the kid, or anything like that
Carol “I AM THE MOM!!! I MUST BE OBEEEEYYYED!!!” Brown is clearly the head of the family. Hank’s responsible for cleaning up to make sure problems are resolved without his darling wife’s fragile one-note world falling apart, like Joyce’s has.
I still don’t think she IS the head of the household- not really. I get the impression that she feels she should defer to her husband even when she doesn’t like it- especially in front of others- so she’s excelled at manipulation instead. (Look at her reaction when Hank said Joyce could keep hanging out with Dorothy- Carol did NOT support that, but she stayed quiet and just glared.) Likewise, she clearly didn’t want Becky to come at all or to stay- but it appears she’s bowed to him in those as well.
She is definitely the lead in control and religious indoctrination- although it’s hard to be sure if that was always the case, from Hank’s earlier appearance at IU.
This, it is on her to enforce moral order and she’s allowed a lot of passive-aggressive means to try and argue her case, but if the man of the house argues that the sky is green and the floor is lava, she is supposed to not differ from that and instead follow his lead, because awful ideas of men’s and women’s roles in that sect of religion.
It’s also why she shut up but glared when Hank was like “we support you and think you are a good kid” after she stood up to them at the Fountain.
However, from my experience with moms like Carol in positions like Carol I think we can expect an increase in passive-aggression, reading any negative Joyce emotions as a personal defiance, and sniping at Joyce and Becky when they are alone with her.
Keeping in mind that I’ve probably never said my entire life, I sure as f*** will say amen to that. But you’re missing something: It’s CoolDad McCool, First of His Name, Breaker of Prejudice, Father of Progress (and hopefully dragons), of House Cool-Born.
Eh, doing the bare minimum of lying to protect vulnerable children from wifey’s self-righteous, inflexible, people-hating yet desperate to be respected ways is not exactly saintly I think. That would be if he loudly distanced himself from her only-there-to-be-something-to-escape style of parenting and the poisonous religion that led to it.
Not that he’s not doing good, but he’s still much overshadowed by the cartoonish evil he choose to associate himself with.
I disagree that this is the bare minimum he could be doing. According to his religious beliefs he didn’t have to do anything at all to support Joyce and Becky here. Instead of writing them off loke the Mother is trying to do, he did some serious soul searching and made a really difficult decision. He certainly isn’t a saint, but credit where it’s due. The man is stepping up in a way no other parent in this comic has yet.
I’d like to think he wouldn’t bail on Joyce if Carol called bullshit.
JetstreamGW
I’mma keep repeating “People can be good people even if they have shitty opinions” until someone acknowledges it, or I go blue in the face.
chris2315
Personally, I think what defines a great person isn’t what opinions they hold at any given moment, but rather their ability to reconsider those opinions when faced with opposing evidence.
Seer Of Rage
*whispers ironically* this.
Atoms
You’re a good person, and you should feel good.
Geneseepaws
And you’re good enough, and yur smart enough and gosh darnit– people like you!
I’m not sure what he meant, always seemed like a sentence fragment, people like him …what? People like him surf? People like him cavort? People like him aver?
Lyssie
He is liked by people. People do the verb of liking to him.
Tacos
Well I don’t know how to tell you this but… seems your Decepticon insignia is starting to turn blue…
I… I think he was more comparing Dorothy herself to Hitler?
But I honestly, earnestly believe that the moment someone tries to make up for their past mistakes and truly, genuinely become a better person than they were when they made them, we shouldn’t hold said mistakes against them any longer.
Jason
Erm, by which I also mean to say that we shouldn’t also forget those mistakes. If nothing else, they show an insight into a person, and we need to understand how those mistakes came to be made- and how far their attempts to improve as a person are likely to go.
But yeah, Hank is actively taking huge steps to overcome what he was taught and lived in order to become a better man. That should be respected at the least, if not admired.
Blaine seems to view his offspring as his literal possessions to fuck with and abuse as he pleases. Carole is at least less wrong in that she is genuinely concerned for the well being of her children. Of course the problem arises with how she judges ‘well being’.
And I mean, here is a point that I can sympathize with Hank and even Carole on. Joyce did take the family car and drive off for the entire day without telling anyone and apparently remained out of contact the entire time. I can think of plenty of entirely secular reasons for him to be stressing out about this even if Joyce is technically an adult.
AUnicornNoOneAskedFor
“Out of contact” if you don’t count seeing her brother and sister for lunch as she had apparently planned to do that day.
Jason
The “brother” bit threw me for a moment. I wonder if John has been in contact- either before lunch or after?
ischemgeek
Honestly, I don’t think that Carol doesn’t view her kids as possessions. I think she does, but to her kids, she wraps it up under the guise of concern for them.
My mom, when I was living with my folks, used to do it all the time. She did not view me as anything other than a possession to make her look good (“when you have a daughter you have her for life” type of thing), but to my face, she’d always pretend that she only wanted to control my every waking moment down to how much and how I fidgeted (no, really) because she was concerned for my well-being. I was so naive and sheltered, you see, I would get eaten alive in the real world (real world meaning if I joined clubs she didn’t approve of or volunteered for causes she didn’t like or etc) and it was her job to protect me from it – rather than giving me the tools to navigate it successfully.
This included wanting me to abide by a curfew when I went to uni, email all my assignments to her before I handed them in so my folks could proof-read them, and insisting on veto power over whatever I wanted to do.
And it’s further complicated by the sect they belong to wherein children are not only possessions of the parents, but it is on the parents to make sure those possessions get entered into the Kingdom of Heaven when the Rapture comes down any day now, by making sure they remain free of sin and any signs of disobedience of God’s authority.
Thus justifying that type of parent to even more thoroughly meddle and micromanage their childrens’ lives.
Also *massive hugs* for growing up with that shit.
Oooh yeah, this, did she micromanage how you carried objects, too? Mine had specific ideas about that, particularly books for some reason. (By your sides. Only. Extended arms, no bent elbows, never in front of the body. Yes. No. HELL no. Why? WHO THE FUCK CAN EVEN TELL.)
(Still better than the other one, mind you. He’d hit me in the head for looking in the same direction for too long. Not for looking at the wrong thing, just, you know, looking in the same direction. Because thinking too much, I guess? idek. For “floating” is what he called it. This is the first time I’ve talked about that outside of therapy, I think, and being hypervigilant as fuck, I am reaaaaaaaal nervous about it. But, yeah, why? Maybe not being involved enough in whatever he was doing? Fuck if I know.)
(and this is in category talking too much about this shit even in an opt-in filter because your friends freak out and decide you’re delusional and aren’t friends with you anymore, but well, it’s a comments section on a webcomic, right? and given this comic and this shit, maybe somebody else is going through this crap, in which caes HEY KID I MADE IT I’M NOT GONNA LIE IT WAS FUCKIN’ BRUTAL BUT I GOT OUT AND YOU CAN TOO, IT’S PROBABLY GONNA TAKE A WHILE AND I’M SORRY ABOUT THAT BUT GOOD LUCK.)
But yeah: objects to make them look good.
And the thing is, if you figure that out, you can use it. Like I told her the last time I ever talked to her, the very first thing I remember learning is never to let her know what I really thought about anything. The less they knew about me, the better, and if you can get good at avoidance and at acting, you can manoeuvre your way around all kinds of crap until you manage to work your way out of range.
No, but she did micromanage the shit out of how I walked and where I was looking.
BigGuy
Oh don’t be silly. Carol is doing a fairly good parenting job. Setting and firmly upholding boundaries is good parenting, and she’s only talked to the newer, more mature Joyce for all of half an hour so far, during which time Joyce pretended to be the younger, less mature Joyce. How is she supposed to accept Joyce as a grown woman? Joyce is her baby. My mother still treats me like I’m 5 sometimes and I’m a grown ass man a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than her.
Carol is not a villain, or evil, or even a bad parent. She’s just intolerant. That’s it. She has not kicked Becky out of her house, she said a couple passive-aggressive comments at dinner and claimed that college was a bad influence on Joyce.
Calm the fuck down y’all smh Joyce is based off of Willis’ college days and I strongly doubt that he hates his parents. Carol may see the light, she may not, but she’s not going to fuck anything up and Hank is there to temper and block the decisions and reactions that would hurt Joyce.
Some people seem to be waiting for a reveal that the only reason why he did that is because Joyce would “owe him one.”
HMH
I think that it is most likely to end up having something to do with what he knows will happen if his wife rejects his daughter’s position in their life. He failed to protect one of his beloved children from his wife, and now that kid is persona non grata. He probably loves Joyce more than any of his boys, because she’s the youngest and a girl. It’ll be interesting to see what lengths he’ll go to to avoid losing any more of his family; which is going to end up coming first, his children, or his religion?
I wasn’t in the camp I mentioned earlier, it just seems like some of the more disdainful comments about Hank (at least the ones without elaboration) gave the impression that things aren’t as they seem with regards to his helpfulness to Joyce.
My, we are exploring persona non grata from several perspectives in this comic of late. Ambermazing Girl and Danny and Sal’s perspectives, as well as Dorothy and Hank and Carol’s perspective on the eldest brother. I didn’t even realize it was a theme until your comment.
Yup, he’s a natural peacemaker so he’s trying to keep both, but I think that’s going to become harder and harder for him. Especially when he finds out he has two daughters.
Showler
I actually expect Hank to speak with Joyce privately to ask why she took the car without asking permission. I hope that will result in Joyce admitting she overheard their conversation about pulling her out of school.
Oberon
I didn’t see it as wanting Joyce to “owe him one.” I saw it as him not thinking it was a big deal, and also recognizing that it would only add fuel to the already blazing “Joyce should stop going to the soulless college and go to a good, Christian college.”
He’s still a dad, so I’d expect him to sit her down in private and have a little talk about respect for the rules, for her parents, etc. But I think it’d be a fairly gentle talk, not an attempt at a guilt trip or mind control.
JustCheetoDust
It really doesn’t look like that will be the case, but if it was would we be blindsided by that reveal as opposed to getting subtle hints leading up to it? Then again, I was just throwing it out that idea out right before going to sleep as opposed to coming from a place of suspicion. I’m not really skeptical of Hank.
Oberon
Why would we need any kind of Chekhov’s Gun to provide hints of what any parent might do? After covering for your daughter’s gaff to prevent a huge blow-up, and it was a gaff since the dad would have probably just given them the keys, a little chat is well within reasonable expectations. Borrowing a car is nor something that any university age child, even if above the age of majority, should just assume is their right, especially if there are ground rules covering those things already.
And given the household, it’s a very fair expectation that there are rules about a great many things.
My impression is that he has a basic grasp of trauma and realizes that Joyce needs space and that her healing process may involve some erratic behavior.
423 thoughts on “Vehemently”
Ana Chronistic
“We’ve secretly switched Carol’s husband Hank Brown for CoolDad™. Let’s see if she totally flips her shit.”
Ana Chronistic
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
Clif
Oh, thank goodness. I thought we had switched comic strips.
SmilingNid
If we had the fluffed pillow trick might have worked, in this comic it either hides a truck or triggers a flashback.
Jon Rich
Fluffed pillow trick? Also, what’s this other comic you guys are talking about?
Disloyal Subject
Ana didn’t post the first comment yesterday.
Orion Fury
This. I started coughing.
Idontcarenomore
Bang.
Ana Chronistic
https://twitter.com/janez_langus124/status/692097881746976768
Disloyal Subject
When did 9gag watermarks start appearing on everything?
Aeron
Ana stahp, you are doing me a frighten.
Adept Arcanist
So it was all your work…!
TheAnonymousGuy
So, it’s not often that the dad in one of these stories is the one to take a step back and ask important questions, cover for the kid, or anything like that
Ana Chronistic
There are many varieties of CoolDad™: Ask your doctor which one is right for YOU!
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
Carol “I AM THE MOM!!! I MUST BE OBEEEEYYYED!!!” Brown is clearly the head of the family. Hank’s responsible for cleaning up to make sure problems are resolved without his darling wife’s fragile one-note world falling apart, like Joyce’s has.
Disloyal Subject
YOU BETRAYED THE MOM!
lookitsbasu
I laughed way too hard.
Jason
I still don’t think she IS the head of the household- not really. I get the impression that she feels she should defer to her husband even when she doesn’t like it- especially in front of others- so she’s excelled at manipulation instead. (Look at her reaction when Hank said Joyce could keep hanging out with Dorothy- Carol did NOT support that, but she stayed quiet and just glared.) Likewise, she clearly didn’t want Becky to come at all or to stay- but it appears she’s bowed to him in those as well.
She is definitely the lead in control and religious indoctrination- although it’s hard to be sure if that was always the case, from Hank’s earlier appearance at IU.
Cerberus
This, it is on her to enforce moral order and she’s allowed a lot of passive-aggressive means to try and argue her case, but if the man of the house argues that the sky is green and the floor is lava, she is supposed to not differ from that and instead follow his lead, because awful ideas of men’s and women’s roles in that sect of religion.
It’s also why she shut up but glared when Hank was like “we support you and think you are a good kid” after she stood up to them at the Fountain.
However, from my experience with moms like Carol in positions like Carol I think we can expect an increase in passive-aggression, reading any negative Joyce emotions as a personal defiance, and sniping at Joyce and Becky when they are alone with her.
Fire_daws
Does that involve cleaning up the blood?
Znayx
Keeping in mind that I’ve probably never said my entire life, I sure as f*** will say amen to that. But you’re missing something: It’s CoolDad McCool, First of His Name, Breaker of Prejudice, Father of Progress (and hopefully dragons), of House Cool-Born.
Amake
Eh, doing the bare minimum of lying to protect vulnerable children from wifey’s self-righteous, inflexible, people-hating yet desperate to be respected ways is not exactly saintly I think. That would be if he loudly distanced himself from her only-there-to-be-something-to-escape style of parenting and the poisonous religion that led to it.
Not that he’s not doing good, but he’s still much overshadowed by the cartoonish evil he choose to associate himself with.
Tyler Durham
I disagree that this is the bare minimum he could be doing. According to his religious beliefs he didn’t have to do anything at all to support Joyce and Becky here. Instead of writing them off loke the Mother is trying to do, he did some serious soul searching and made a really difficult decision. He certainly isn’t a saint, but credit where it’s due. The man is stepping up in a way no other parent in this comic has yet.
AnvilPro
Hank is a gosh darn SAINT.
inqntrol
Quite the savior, isn’t he?
Clif
Wait for the other shoe to drop.
JustCheetoDust
I’d like to think he wouldn’t bail on Joyce if Carol called bullshit.
JetstreamGW
I’mma keep repeating “People can be good people even if they have shitty opinions” until someone acknowledges it, or I go blue in the face.
chris2315
Personally, I think what defines a great person isn’t what opinions they hold at any given moment, but rather their ability to reconsider those opinions when faced with opposing evidence.
Seer Of Rage
*whispers ironically* this.
Atoms
You’re a good person, and you should feel good.
Geneseepaws
And you’re good enough, and yur smart enough and gosh darnit– people like you!
I’m not sure what he meant, always seemed like a sentence fragment, people like him …what? People like him surf? People like him cavort? People like him aver?
Lyssie
He is liked by people. People do the verb of liking to him.
Tacos
Well I don’t know how to tell you this but… seems your Decepticon insignia is starting to turn blue…
Cephalo the Pod
He once compared Dorothy’s parents to Adolf Hitler.
I love how much he’s inproving, but let’s not kid ourselves.
JetstreamGW
See previous comment.
Jason
I… I think he was more comparing Dorothy herself to Hitler?
But I honestly, earnestly believe that the moment someone tries to make up for their past mistakes and truly, genuinely become a better person than they were when they made them, we shouldn’t hold said mistakes against them any longer.
Jason
Erm, by which I also mean to say that we shouldn’t also forget those mistakes. If nothing else, they show an insight into a person, and we need to understand how those mistakes came to be made- and how far their attempts to improve as a person are likely to go.
But yeah, Hank is actively taking huge steps to overcome what he was taught and lived in order to become a better man. That should be respected at the least, if not admired.
saltchocolate
Love him.
Anorak
Go Hank!!!
Dara
YAAAAAY LESS DOOM!
inqntrol
Ok, we can all agree that Hank is the best parent ever!
Kernanator
Well…
He’s better than Carol!
Doctor_Who
It’s a low bar, but he clears it by a mile.
Cephalo the Pod
You’d literally have to commit a crime to be worse of a parent than Carol.
DarkoNeko
so… ToeDad ?
Cephalo the Pod
Well, also Blaine.
Pedantic Peanut
Blaine seems to view his offspring as his literal possessions to fuck with and abuse as he pleases. Carole is at least less wrong in that she is genuinely concerned for the well being of her children. Of course the problem arises with how she judges ‘well being’.
And I mean, here is a point that I can sympathize with Hank and even Carole on. Joyce did take the family car and drive off for the entire day without telling anyone and apparently remained out of contact the entire time. I can think of plenty of entirely secular reasons for him to be stressing out about this even if Joyce is technically an adult.
AUnicornNoOneAskedFor
“Out of contact” if you don’t count seeing her brother and sister for lunch as she had apparently planned to do that day.
Jason
The “brother” bit threw me for a moment. I wonder if John has been in contact- either before lunch or after?
ischemgeek
Honestly, I don’t think that Carol doesn’t view her kids as possessions. I think she does, but to her kids, she wraps it up under the guise of concern for them.
My mom, when I was living with my folks, used to do it all the time. She did not view me as anything other than a possession to make her look good (“when you have a daughter you have her for life” type of thing), but to my face, she’d always pretend that she only wanted to control my every waking moment down to how much and how I fidgeted (no, really) because she was concerned for my well-being. I was so naive and sheltered, you see, I would get eaten alive in the real world (real world meaning if I joined clubs she didn’t approve of or volunteered for causes she didn’t like or etc) and it was her job to protect me from it – rather than giving me the tools to navigate it successfully.
This included wanting me to abide by a curfew when I went to uni, email all my assignments to her before I handed them in so my folks could proof-read them, and insisting on veto power over whatever I wanted to do.
Cerberus
This.
And it’s further complicated by the sect they belong to wherein children are not only possessions of the parents, but it is on the parents to make sure those possessions get entered into the Kingdom of Heaven when the Rapture comes down any day now, by making sure they remain free of sin and any signs of disobedience of God’s authority.
Thus justifying that type of parent to even more thoroughly meddle and micromanage their childrens’ lives.
Also *massive hugs* for growing up with that shit.
Dara
Oooh yeah, this, did she micromanage how you carried objects, too? Mine had specific ideas about that, particularly books for some reason. (By your sides. Only. Extended arms, no bent elbows, never in front of the body. Yes. No. HELL no. Why? WHO THE FUCK CAN EVEN TELL.)
(Still better than the other one, mind you. He’d hit me in the head for looking in the same direction for too long. Not for looking at the wrong thing, just, you know, looking in the same direction. Because thinking too much, I guess? idek. For “floating” is what he called it. This is the first time I’ve talked about that outside of therapy, I think, and being hypervigilant as fuck, I am reaaaaaaaal nervous about it. But, yeah, why? Maybe not being involved enough in whatever he was doing? Fuck if I know.)
(and this is in category talking too much about this shit even in an opt-in filter because your friends freak out and decide you’re delusional and aren’t friends with you anymore, but well, it’s a comments section on a webcomic, right? and given this comic and this shit, maybe somebody else is going through this crap, in which caes HEY KID I MADE IT I’M NOT GONNA LIE IT WAS FUCKIN’ BRUTAL BUT I GOT OUT AND YOU CAN TOO, IT’S PROBABLY GONNA TAKE A WHILE AND I’M SORRY ABOUT THAT BUT GOOD LUCK.)
But yeah: objects to make them look good.
And the thing is, if you figure that out, you can use it. Like I told her the last time I ever talked to her, the very first thing I remember learning is never to let her know what I really thought about anything. The less they knew about me, the better, and if you can get good at avoidance and at acting, you can manoeuvre your way around all kinds of crap until you manage to work your way out of range.
Cerberus
And a *giant hug* to Dara as well.
ischemgeek
@Dara
No, but she did micromanage the shit out of how I walked and where I was looking.
BigGuy
Oh don’t be silly. Carol is doing a fairly good parenting job. Setting and firmly upholding boundaries is good parenting, and she’s only talked to the newer, more mature Joyce for all of half an hour so far, during which time Joyce pretended to be the younger, less mature Joyce. How is she supposed to accept Joyce as a grown woman? Joyce is her baby. My mother still treats me like I’m 5 sometimes and I’m a grown ass man a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than her.
Carol is not a villain, or evil, or even a bad parent. She’s just intolerant. That’s it. She has not kicked Becky out of her house, she said a couple passive-aggressive comments at dinner and claimed that college was a bad influence on Joyce.
Calm the fuck down y’all smh Joyce is based off of Willis’ college days and I strongly doubt that he hates his parents. Carol may see the light, she may not, but she’s not going to fuck anything up and Hank is there to temper and block the decisions and reactions that would hurt Joyce.
saltchocolate
I might put him ahead of alienate Walkerton, at this point.
saltchocolate
Whoa, Auto-correct!!
That is: I might put him above Linda Walkerton, at this point. 😀
Deanatay
First post describes her better. 😉
AeromechanicalAce
I dunno, kind of hard to beat the ‘here’s 200 bucks for a nice first date’ Sarauyamas. But he’s officially above average by DoA standards.
lejwocky
He might be testing Joyce to see if she’ll lie
JustCheetoDust
Some people seem to be waiting for a reveal that the only reason why he did that is because Joyce would “owe him one.”
HMH
I think that it is most likely to end up having something to do with what he knows will happen if his wife rejects his daughter’s position in their life. He failed to protect one of his beloved children from his wife, and now that kid is persona non grata. He probably loves Joyce more than any of his boys, because she’s the youngest and a girl. It’ll be interesting to see what lengths he’ll go to to avoid losing any more of his family; which is going to end up coming first, his children, or his religion?
DarkoNeko
or his wife*
JustCheetoDust
I wasn’t in the camp I mentioned earlier, it just seems like some of the more disdainful comments about Hank (at least the ones without elaboration) gave the impression that things aren’t as they seem with regards to his helpfulness to Joyce.
spriteless
My, we are exploring persona non grata from several perspectives in this comic of late. Ambermazing Girl and Danny and Sal’s perspectives, as well as Dorothy and Hank and Carol’s perspective on the eldest brother. I didn’t even realize it was a theme until your comment.
Cerberus
Yup, he’s a natural peacemaker so he’s trying to keep both, but I think that’s going to become harder and harder for him. Especially when he finds out he has two daughters.
Showler
I actually expect Hank to speak with Joyce privately to ask why she took the car without asking permission. I hope that will result in Joyce admitting she overheard their conversation about pulling her out of school.
Oberon
I didn’t see it as wanting Joyce to “owe him one.” I saw it as him not thinking it was a big deal, and also recognizing that it would only add fuel to the already blazing “Joyce should stop going to the soulless college and go to a good, Christian college.”
He’s still a dad, so I’d expect him to sit her down in private and have a little talk about respect for the rules, for her parents, etc. But I think it’d be a fairly gentle talk, not an attempt at a guilt trip or mind control.
JustCheetoDust
It really doesn’t look like that will be the case, but if it was would we be blindsided by that reveal as opposed to getting subtle hints leading up to it? Then again, I was just throwing it out that idea out right before going to sleep as opposed to coming from a place of suspicion. I’m not really skeptical of Hank.
Oberon
Why would we need any kind of Chekhov’s Gun to provide hints of what any parent might do? After covering for your daughter’s gaff to prevent a huge blow-up, and it was a gaff since the dad would have probably just given them the keys, a little chat is well within reasonable expectations. Borrowing a car is nor something that any university age child, even if above the age of majority, should just assume is their right, especially if there are ground rules covering those things already.
And given the household, it’s a very fair expectation that there are rules about a great many things.
Fay Onyx
My impression is that he has a basic grasp of trauma and realizes that Joyce needs space and that her healing process may involve some erratic behavior.
Viktoria
The dude is, in this specific instance, not being an ass. That’s good, but he doesn’t get a cookie for it.
chris2315