Teenagers, however, do tend to be more prone to recognizing their approach doesn’t work or whoops! Turns out they didn’t know shit. They’re still developing their frontal lobes and figuring out how the world works and what they care about. I hold more hope for them than actual adult adults, and even they can sometimes surprise you.
A lot of people are just perennially disappointing, but college is formative because meeting new people with different experiences while your brain’s still developing in key ways does often change how you view the world. There is still hope for these kids. Most of them aren’t even 20 yet.
What you’re seeing is Bad Decisions Made By Teenagers. It very often prompts the selfsame teenagers to wish that they themselves caught fire and died, when they look back on it years later once they’re no longer teenagers.
Felix
Ah yes the proverbial GRINGE we all occasionally feel…
Honestly, thank god. I Am A Mature Grownup Jennifer was surreal. ‘Unnecessary drama? Hook it directly into my veins!’ Jennifer may be awful, but she’s an awful we’ve come to enjoy watching from a safe distance before it inevitably explodes in her face.
Oh. Well there goes any and all possibility of this Jennifer change being genuine. This is “Billie” all the way…
…..
…Also yeah, I still don’t trust Asher.
I’ve suspected that her “change” wasn’t genuine for a while now, and this confirms my suspicion. And yeah, I really don’t trust any of these four, and I especially distrust Asher and Raidah.
I would consider being approved of by Linda a good cause for reevaluating my life.
DailyBrad
Particularly given her reaction when Sal told her Walky stood up to Linda, which was one of no small amount of shock, or her not giving the Walkertons the naive benefit of the doubt Walky was on the topic of the microaggressions they kept visiting on Sal. She knows how toxic a household it is.
She can both not want it (in that her parents are kind of horrible and the kind of person they’d actually approve of and not selectively see or be trying to mold their children into would ALSO suck) and want it (in that it would be really fucking nice if they were the kind of people who would accept their kids as they actually are) simultaneously! Unfortunately, that is the way of many bad parent-child relationships, especially if the parent does occasionally have moments of not being a complete trashfire.
She probably doesn’t actively want their approval any more now but at the same time, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t sting to have them actually like and see someone else as more befitting of being their child and that she doesn’t have parents that will love her for who she is.
It absolutely has extra barbs that it isn’t just ‘we don’t approve of you’ but ‘we don’t approve of you and would absolutely replace you with this friend you have in a heartbeat and love her as she is, she is our favourite daughter’ when Sal is well aware that Jennifer is barely functional as a human being and has a mess of a life she is always trying to paper over.
Mary would be Neutral Evil! Neutral Good is the alignment for Messiah types (Which is why you have Joyce in the NG slot), and DOA usually presents Mary as the Anti-Joyce. Thus NE.
Being an authority figure has absolutely nothing to do with morals, the laws of the land or even having an internal code. see the previous administration
Oruncrest
Being Lawful has nothing to do with morals, either. It’s about playing by (and knowing how to abuse) the rules. Ruth, being an authority, knows which rules she can get away with breaking , thus Lawful Evil. Billie, like the previous administration, generally believes that the laws don’t apply to her, which slots her more into Chaotic Evil than any other alignment.
Demoted Oblivious
Agreed, but that is the /heart and soul/ of why D&D introduced the two-axis alignment system.
Personally, I’d switch Billie and Ruth. Ruth has standards, rules that she holds herself to (generally). Billie just does whatever benefits her most at any given moment.
Amber was my first pick but then I figured she’s too devoted to ideals of rigid black and white morality to really count.
Yotomoe
Honestly I don’t think so. Amber and Amazi-girl have picked fights, cheated on walky’s grades for him and done other stuff. Like they’re genuinely good but they’re definitely one of the more wildcards of the DOA cast.
Spencer
Right, but she does those things because she’s right to do them, according to her. She creates all these rules and regulations for Amazi-Girl’s job and then ardently sticks to them until she can find a way to make herself more miserable.
Yotomoe
This is still what I’d consider chaotic though. Sure she’s got a sense of justice and you could make an argument for her being more Lawful, but I definitely think she is just as much chaotic while still being seen as “good”.
Adam Black
But amber cant follow those rules and Amazigirl must
I was going to say the same thing about Carla. The posterchild for Chaotic Neutral, really.
Edwin I Callahan
I agree. By the way, I’d rate Joyce as lawful good along with Dorothy. She’s equally rule-driven, or neuroses-driven. Roz is politically correct. Her sister Robin is Daffy Duck.
I say, this thing does a rather fantastic job at demonstrating the fact that lawfulness and moral standing are NOT related whatsoever.
However, this chart seems to suffer from a similar problem to the tier lists in Tier Zoo; there seems to be some kind of unspoken “need” to make the characters evenly distributed throughout the quadrants here, without reckoning that some characters are better off sharing the same quadrant so that we could better predict (instead of project) character outcomes (as well as we could ever do that with two independent variables).
If this only intends to be funny, however, it does a pretty nice job. But I we could take this kind of thing SO much further.
How dare you besmirch Tierzoo’s good name. His meta advice is what led me to choosing my new main! I was using bottom tier trash like Black Widows and Kiwis until he came along.
Wagstaff
As accurate as a few of his videos may be, it is only good practice that scientists double-check each other’s answers.
Having watched that video I’ll echo what some of the comments are saying. Tier Zoo is coming from the perspective of a player maining that character, not the species as a whole. For example, Salmon, while they are at no risk of dying out, would be a really hard character to play single player campaign with because of how they’re griefed. i think the spread on the list feels fair. Besides having too much concentration in tier list makes them harder to read.
Wagstaff
I guess here, it is instructive to note that ALL models and research have their limitations. Only so long as we actually respect those limitations and preserve that essential context in their redistribution (unlike most news reporters, who really have no business interpreting the results of scientific research), there should be no problem.
Considering the sheer amount of garbage out there that results from cutting off context like that, this is easier said than done, at least for now.
304 thoughts on “Capital H”
Ana Chronistic
so much for that whole Growing Up thing
Demoted Oblivious
To repeat myself, “People tend to remain who they are, or more often, become worse versions of themselves.” Characters often more so, because drama.
Regalli
Teenagers, however, do tend to be more prone to recognizing their approach doesn’t work or whoops! Turns out they didn’t know shit. They’re still developing their frontal lobes and figuring out how the world works and what they care about. I hold more hope for them than actual adult adults, and even they can sometimes surprise you.
A lot of people are just perennially disappointing, but college is formative because meeting new people with different experiences while your brain’s still developing in key ways does often change how you view the world. There is still hope for these kids. Most of them aren’t even 20 yet.
Demoted Oblivious
Like I said, people
(whispered the dark voice)
Clif
There’s the Jennifer we know and love.
Reltzik
… 1 out of 2 ain’t bad.
King Daniel
There’s the Jennifer we love with unfamiliarity?
Lars
Book 11:Everything’s Mostly the Same, But Just Different Enough
Lokitsu
Don’t take the wrong way, but sometimes I want the entire cast to catch fire and die. Is that wrong?
Gigafreak
What you’re seeing is Bad Decisions Made By Teenagers. It very often prompts the selfsame teenagers to wish that they themselves caught fire and died, when they look back on it years later once they’re no longer teenagers.
Felix
Ah yes the proverbial GRINGE we all occasionally feel…
Pablo360
I love the consistent irony of Asher being the only person who has grown up, or at least tried to.
Lily
Now *that’s* the girl we all know
Regalli
Honestly, thank god. I Am A Mature Grownup Jennifer was surreal. ‘Unnecessary drama? Hook it directly into my veins!’ Jennifer may be awful, but she’s an awful we’ve come to enjoy watching from a safe distance before it inevitably explodes in her face.
Undrave
Mature Grownup Jennifer is so fake…
Needfuldoer
*Malaya pops out of a nearby garbage can like Oscar*
“A-HA! FAKEY! I KNEW IT!”
Delicious Taffy
Yeah, I honestly like this look more for her. Hate the behavior IRL, but it sure do drive a stories good. Gremlin Jennifer is fun.
It also reminds me of a character from an old Pixie Trix, but I can’t figure out which one.
Undrave
That’s the real Billie showing up! Good.
Thag Simmons
Jennifer no
Tan
Billie yes
(please note that the name here is intentional as part of a counterpoint to Jennifer no and I would otherwise adhere to the namechange)
Demoted Oblivious
Jenniferno
Gash
i like how that kinda sounds like “inferno”
Needfuldoer
A good derby name, if she were to participate.
I am Nothing
That sounds like a very specific brand of hot sauce.
Mravac Kid
A good name for the disaster movie that could be made about the dumpster fire that’s her life.
Sirksome
Oh. Well there goes any and all possibility of this Jennifer change being genuine. This is “Billie” all the way…
…..
…Also yeah, I still don’t trust Asher.
Doctor_Who
Billie was always waiting inside for her moment to burst forth.
Clif
Asher had no idea what he was exposing himself too.
Lars
Panel 4: My precoius!
C.T. Phipps
Trust him to do what? I’m not sure what “trust” means in this context?
Keulen
I’ve suspected that her “change” wasn’t genuine for a while now, and this confirms my suspicion. And yeah, I really don’t trust any of these four, and I especially distrust Asher and Raidah.
zee
Yeah we been knew
Yumi
“Besides, of course, the adoration of her parents.”
Regalli
Just rub it in, why don’tcha.
Sirksome
Lets be honest here that’s not really a prize.
Doctor_Who
I would consider being approved of by Linda a good cause for reevaluating my life.
DailyBrad
Particularly given her reaction when Sal told her Walky stood up to Linda, which was one of no small amount of shock, or her not giving the Walkertons the naive benefit of the doubt Walky was on the topic of the microaggressions they kept visiting on Sal. She knows how toxic a household it is.
thejeff
Or her manipulation of Linda after the shooting.
She’s got their number.
Thag Simmons
Dunno if that’s something Sal still wants. She definitely doesn’t think it’s a realistic outcome
Regalli
She can both not want it (in that her parents are kind of horrible and the kind of person they’d actually approve of and not selectively see or be trying to mold their children into would ALSO suck) and want it (in that it would be really fucking nice if they were the kind of people who would accept their kids as they actually are) simultaneously! Unfortunately, that is the way of many bad parent-child relationships, especially if the parent does occasionally have moments of not being a complete trashfire.
Sam
She probably doesn’t actively want their approval any more now but at the same time, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t sting to have them actually like and see someone else as more befitting of being their child and that she doesn’t have parents that will love her for who she is.
It absolutely has extra barbs that it isn’t just ‘we don’t approve of you’ but ‘we don’t approve of you and would absolutely replace you with this friend you have in a heartbeat and love her as she is, she is our favourite daughter’ when Sal is well aware that Jennifer is barely functional as a human being and has a mess of a life she is always trying to paper over.
Spencer
I’m reposting this because I spent an entire eight minutes putting it together and I will not allow that effort to go to waste.
https://i.imgur.com/AcnaubN.jpg
King Daniel
I just want to know why Mary isn’t in the bottom right corner
Spencer
Cast page only.
Besides, not Lawful Evil for her?
Tan
Of the cast page, surely Robin for CE?
Oruncrest
Mary would be Neutral Evil! Neutral Good is the alignment for Messiah types (Which is why you have Joyce in the NG slot), and DOA usually presents Mary as the Anti-Joyce. Thus NE.
Thag Simmons
Jen is probably also more on the chaotic side than the lawful side
newlland(Henryvolt)
How is Billie Lawful and Ruth Neutral when Ruth is the one who’s an Authority figure?
Spencer
Jennifer’s rich and Ruth’s just kind of spiteful.
Thag Simmons
She doesn’t know how to play that wealth into actual influence though
Cass
Aren’t they both rich (insofar as they were both raised by someone who is stinking rich)?
Demoted Oblivious
Being an authority figure has absolutely nothing to do with morals, the laws of the land or even having an internal code. see the previous administration
Oruncrest
Being Lawful has nothing to do with morals, either. It’s about playing by (and knowing how to abuse) the rules. Ruth, being an authority, knows which rules she can get away with breaking , thus Lawful Evil. Billie, like the previous administration, generally believes that the laws don’t apply to her, which slots her more into Chaotic Evil than any other alignment.
Demoted Oblivious
Agreed, but that is the /heart and soul/ of why D&D introduced the two-axis alignment system.
Lumino
Personally, I’d switch Billie and Ruth. Ruth has standards, rules that she holds herself to (generally). Billie just does whatever benefits her most at any given moment.
Spot on with the others, though.
Yotomoe
I feel like Mary would be Lawful Evil.
Carla is absolutely Chaotic Neutral.
I think Amber/Amazigirl is a better fit for Chaotic Good.
The rest are fine.
Spencer
Amber was my first pick but then I figured she’s too devoted to ideals of rigid black and white morality to really count.
Yotomoe
Honestly I don’t think so. Amber and Amazi-girl have picked fights, cheated on walky’s grades for him and done other stuff. Like they’re genuinely good but they’re definitely one of the more wildcards of the DOA cast.
Spencer
Right, but she does those things because she’s right to do them, according to her. She creates all these rules and regulations for Amazi-Girl’s job and then ardently sticks to them until she can find a way to make herself more miserable.
Yotomoe
This is still what I’d consider chaotic though. Sure she’s got a sense of justice and you could make an argument for her being more Lawful, but I definitely think she is just as much chaotic while still being seen as “good”.
Adam Black
But amber cant follow those rules and Amazigirl must
chuckroast
I was going to say the same thing about Carla. The posterchild for Chaotic Neutral, really.
Edwin I Callahan
I agree. By the way, I’d rate Joyce as lawful good along with Dorothy. She’s equally rule-driven, or neuroses-driven. Roz is politically correct. Her sister Robin is Daffy Duck.
JBento
Amber might be Neutral, but Amazi-Girl is DEFINITELY Lawful Neutral.
Wagstaff
I say, this thing does a rather fantastic job at demonstrating the fact that lawfulness and moral standing are NOT related whatsoever.
However, this chart seems to suffer from a similar problem to the tier lists in Tier Zoo; there seems to be some kind of unspoken “need” to make the characters evenly distributed throughout the quadrants here, without reckoning that some characters are better off sharing the same quadrant so that we could better predict (instead of project) character outcomes (as well as we could ever do that with two independent variables).
If this only intends to be funny, however, it does a pretty nice job. But I we could take this kind of thing SO much further.
Allow me to demonstrate.
Yotomoe
How dare you besmirch Tierzoo’s good name. His meta advice is what led me to choosing my new main! I was using bottom tier trash like Black Widows and Kiwis until he came along.
Wagstaff
As accurate as a few of his videos may be, it is only good practice that scientists double-check each other’s answers.
As unconducive a platform YouTube is for the process of peer review, here’s a video of a real fish biologist criticizing TierZoo’s tier list of fish.
Yotomoe
Having watched that video I’ll echo what some of the comments are saying. Tier Zoo is coming from the perspective of a player maining that character, not the species as a whole. For example, Salmon, while they are at no risk of dying out, would be a really hard character to play single player campaign with because of how they’re griefed. i think the spread on the list feels fair. Besides having too much concentration in tier list makes them harder to read.
Wagstaff
I guess here, it is instructive to note that ALL models and research have their limitations. Only so long as we actually respect those limitations and preserve that essential context in their redistribution (unlike most news reporters, who really have no business interpreting the results of scientific research), there should be no problem.
Considering the sheer amount of garbage out there that results from cutting off context like that, this is easier said than done, at least for now.
RassilonTDavros
What does the Cyrillic text mean?