Crux
Posted on June 5, 2019 by David M Willis

246 thoughts on “Crux”

  1. DarkoNeko

    Guilt tripping much

    1. Jonah Sanville

      especially since it seems like beckys plan is to fuck robin over

    2. Delicious Taffy

      Some people prefer to throw blame around, instead of trying to understand others and maybe even help do some good.

      1. DudeMyDadOwnsADealership

        Roz runs with that type of crowd….And I think she feels threatened by Becky.

    3. GoblinScribe

      Guys, since when did we think that this was Good Decision Becky Time? We all agreed that Becky was being reckless and potentially irresponsible right up until Roz pointed it out explicitly.

      1. Clif

        This, except without the sarcasm.

        1. GoblinScribe

          I’m not being sarcastic, to be clear—I honestly think people are being ridiculously hard on Roz. It feels like people bring more baggage to her than maybe any other character.

          (The angle of “casting a woman of color as your avatar for overly confident and assertive allies who drown out minority voices” does bug me a lot, too.)

      2. thejeff

        It’s also possible to think Becky’s not entirely morally clear here, but that Roz’s response is over the top.

        1. GoblinScribe

          Roz is aggressive and blunt, not wrong.

        2. GoblinScribe

          Also, reminder that just two comics ago Becky was kind of joke-stonewalling Roz’s comments.

          Consider this: Roz put herself, a sexually active woman of color, through genuine media hell to do her best to sabotage her own sister’s campaign. Becky is threatening to accidentally save said sister’s campaign… *to benefit herself*. You couldn’t ask for a more direct opposite.

          Roz is pissed for extremely good reason.

  2. BBCC

    Once again, Roz, you open with a not unreasonable point and then you go and raise my blood pressure. Rude.

    1. Icalasari

      To be fair, in this case it might be needed to make Becky realize what is at stake here

      1. BBCC

        I think Becky knows what’s at stake broadly, and specifically on LGBT+ and worker’s rights, but there’s definitely things Roz is more aware of than Becky (like reproductive rights and latino rights).

        1. Ratzmaus

          Well Robin told her she has to pick 2 out of 3 options, her integrity and the promise of Robin to keep her election statements just wasn’t as important as a house for herself and a stipend to study in STEM fields at a University. (And frankly with the costs of a house and education going as far as half a million, so fuck integrity, the elected council usually can’t do jack on a national scale anyway)

        2. Lin

          Also, not to be a broken record, but if Roz can’t be trusted to keep her campaign promises just because that’s what you do, then *giving her word* to an 18 year old as a part of some weird deal isn’t actually trustworthy.

        3. BBCC

          Robin is a national politician – she’s in Congress.

        4. Lone Duck

          plus Robin lost the support of her party. I seriously doubt Becky could change that tide, without Robin changing her platform.

  3. Ana Chronistic

    some people just want to watch Indiana burn

    …from atop a fabulous not-remotely-to-scale velociraptor plush

    1. Stephen Bierce

      “As you can see it wasn’t a very big fire.”–Woody Allen in “Sleeper”

      1. Lin

        Ew. Aren’t we, as a culture, beyond quoting him on … everything?

        1. Delicious Taffy

          Who the flobbering flip is Woody Allen, in the first place? Some sort of actor, I’m guessing.

    2. abysswatcher1993

      Dina: “we live in a society… where I can burn everything and hug all the dinos.”

      She is wearing a Joker cosplay and writing bigoted stuff online.

      1. Chris Phoenix

        …which is humorous because it references people who believe she should not exist.

  4. Diner Kinetic

    Dina will never be sad ever again.

    I mean, willis is writing this, but at least not for the rest of this arc.

    *knocks on tree corpse*

  5. TrueVCU

    I’m sorry Roz did you not hear the part about free tuition

    1. Hoboturtle

      Ya, but that’s definite Becky putting herself above a bunch of other people. I wouldn’t forgive a crooked politican just bwcause they make bank.

      1. Delicious Taffy

        Yeah, Becky should just give up what she wants for herself and stop trying to sabotage a useless piece of shit’s failing political campaign. Other people in her position don’t get to have their tuition paid off, so why should she?

        1. Delicious Taffy

          Oops, sorry, I misspelled “conservative” just then.

      2. anonamousethatscurriesinthedarkness

        Crooked and Politician is redundant.

        Then again so is Republican and Democrat – different colours and mascots but the same slime behind the fake smiles and greasy handshakes.

        Too bad that there isn’t a third viable option.
        Thanks to the general brainwashing of the voting public into believing such is true, gerrymandering of voting districts, shenanigans with ballots and voting machines, encouraged defeatism of those not of the Red/Blue divide.

        Mandatory voting turns a right into a responsibility?
        – nobody wants that for all the wrong reasons.
        Fixed term limits for public office?
        – aint gonna happen
        – too many people have too much invested in their pet Politicians.

        1. King Daniel

          If you really think that there’s no difference between “Republican” and “Democrat” behind the surface…I don’t know what to say.

        2. thejeff

          Yeah, I fell for that too back in 2000 and thereabouts. Bush quickly proved me wrong and the differences between the parties have only grown more extreme since then.
          I don’t see how people can think that anymore.

        3. Matticus

          *headdesk*

          First of all, if you don’t think that there’s any real difference between Republicans and Democrats, you haven’t been paying attention.

          Secondly, the reason that there’s no “viable third option” is because a two-party system is baked into the Constitution. Whenever you have a First Past the Post, Winner Take All system there will only ever be room for two viable parties. Whereas other systems require parties to form coalitions to govern, our system requires coalitions to build a party. Same process, only we do our coalition building before the election instead of after.

          It’s not a perfect system, or even a particularly good one. But it’s the system we’ve got and isn’t going to change without altering the Constitution. So you can either help the party that matches your views the closest (even if it’s not perfect) or help the party that opposes everything you stand for.

  6. Woomy

    I’d consider helping one republican get re-elected to be worth it. College is expensive, and this country’s going to shit anyways.

    1. abysswatcher1993

      Or make the democrats be accountable of their promises for once and give tuition to every student.

      1. Needfuldoer

        That will never happen unless there’s a supermajority. The other side has been brainwashed into believing the rich deserve that money instead, because the economy apparently isn’t topheavy enough as it is.

      2. Woomy

        Yeah, but this is more of an immediate issue for Becky. She needs to look out for herself now, not other kids years from now.

    2. anonamousethatscurriesinthedarkness

      College is expensive because it is a for-profit enterprise – they are a business but their product is not education.

      Compare American Colleges to the same in first world countries where there is no tuition and education is state sponsored and is merit based.
      They don’t have commercialized sports teams and all the associated [censored] that goes along with it.
      Any research stays public owned since taxpayers paid for it in the first place.
      No students graduating with a lifetime of crushing debt, a useless colourful piece of paper and no employment prospects.

  7. DailyBrad

    On one hand, Robin’s historically been a shit, but on the other, her party did completely abandon her beyond the bare minimum. She might be more keen on Becky’s message given how she seemed to show actual remorse when confronted by Leslie.

    Then again, who knows.

    1. ESM

      It’s not like the Reepublicans have a recent history of abandoning people for moral reasons when it looks like that person is going to lose only to go all-in after that person unexpectedly wins.

      1. thejeff

        Can’t really think of any parallels. The closest are cases where a candidate is abandoned because they think he’s too radical to win or when a more moderate politician gets primaried. In this case, Robin is apparently trying to win with a radical leftist appeal – which makes no sense and couldn’t possibly work, but certainly is going to leave her an apostate.

        Republicans have survived sex scandals and won the support of the party back, but either just by flat out denial or by playing the Christian forgiveness card. Not by taking a strong pro-LGBQ position in middle of the scandal. The important thing is that they continue to talk the party line, even if they don’t walk it.

    2. Keulen

      It’s possible Becky might be able to convince Robin that her new message is better than her old one and that she should stick with that new message. Especially if she wins on that new message. Then again this is Robin so who knows if she cares enough to stick to any message.

      1. jmsr7

        I would point out that Robin only cares about being elected. (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/03-sometimes-the-sky-was-so-far-away/stunt/)

        This is because she doesn’t want to or can’t work for a living. (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/03-sometimes-the-sky-was-so-far-away/manager-2/) Heck, Willis even used that quote from Ghostbusters about the private sector expecting results. Robin obviously can’t deliver.

        Lastly, Becky has already sold out. Here: (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/03-sometimes-the-sky-was-so-far-away/manager-2/) She chose tuition and a place to live.

        And as you can see from her expression, she feels a twinge about selling out. But she’ll do it, because ‘she’s too poor to have principles:’ (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/application/)

        Personally, i think she’s doing the right thing here. A republican with no principles is a damn sight better than a republican with no principles and a base to please comprised of and unholy union of the religious right + alt right. Remember, politics is all about the lesser of two evils.

        1. jmsr7

          Ah crap. CAN’T EDIT COMMENTS! Paragraph 3 was supposed to link to the following comic. I’ll redo it here:

          astly, Becky has already sold out. Here: (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/03-sometimes-the-sky-was-so-far-away/terms-4/) She chose tuition and a place to live.

  8. Doctor_Who

    This is like the old days when Dina could be found behind the door.

    1. fire_daws

      No, this day Dina can be found behind the Velocirapto plushie.

    2. showler

      I look forward to the first time someone closes a door and Dina is behind it WITH the giant dino plushie.

  9. Stephen Bierce

    Today’s strip is sponsored by GMC. Professional Grade.

    1. Needfuldoer

      I thought GM barely gave them enough sponsorship allowance to support Ask This Old House with that “elbow grease” commercial.

      Theory: GM hasn’t changed the Savanna/Express van in over 15 years because they’d have to make with a punny new ad for it.

  10. Mark Sebree

    I thought that Robin was Roz’s BIG sister. After all, Roz is ~18 and a Freshman in college, and Robin is about 26 (IIRC), and a US Congresswoman.

    1. Schpoonman

      Roz is referring to Riley, the cereal lover.

    2. BBCC

      Robin’s 30 iirc.

    3. Yumi

      She’s saying that Robin used both her and their little sister (Riley).

    4. ian livs

      She’s referring to their sister who’s younger than either of them, I think.

    5. Mark Sebree

      Never mind. I misread Roz’s statement in panel 3. I also forgot that Roz is the middle child.

      1. BBCC

        Well, A middle child anyways. Apparently she has a zillion sisters.

    6. Bathymetheus

      Yes? You seem to feel that this is inconsistent with panel 3. It is not.

  11. Schpoonman

    Fuck off, Roz.

    1. Aeromechanicalace

      She’s not wrong though. Robin DOES have the potential to do a lot of harm. While I don’t blame Becky for doing what she had to do to improve her shitty living situation, she’s gonna have to understand her helping Robin could have consequences for others.

      1. Zero

        Even if Robin wins, there’s no reason to believe she would’ve lost without Becky’s help. Becky does not expect to influence the election. And look at her here–she’s having zero success, and even if she had she’d have gotten like five new votes.

        Meanwhile, Becky is influencing Robin. Will Robin betray her? Likely. Will it be as bad as what she would have done without any influence from Becky? Likely not, and it certainly won’t be worse.

        You offer me all that for being an evil henchmen, I still get paid if I fail, I expect to fail because the villain hiring me was out of the blue and I don’t know what I’m doing, and meanwhile I have the ability to make things marginally better then they would be if somebody else was doing the job?
        I get that Becky’s conflicted, but I’m not really seeing much of a downside. There’s a risk that bad stuff could happen and it would be my fault, but I’m worse at the job and a more positive influence then the next person on the list presumably would be?

      2. Schpoonman

        Yes, but she’s throwing all the blame on Becky’s shoulders, and has seemingly ignored her point that Becky is trying to throw the election. Slamming Robin’s platform to the left is not a winning strategy when Robin has campaigned thus far on a regressive platform, alienating voters who would have backed those policies while in (hopefully) no way grabbing voters who were planning on backing Manley.

        1. BBCC

          Hopefully it won’t, because Manley’s apparently progressive even by Roz’s standards and they were neck and neck before Robin’s party dropped her and made her popularity plummet.

        2. Schpoonman

          I get where Roz is coming from, really. But part of the commentariat is acting like Robin is campaigning on conversion therapy and tazing minorities and Becky is openly a fundamentalist on the level of her father.

        3. BBCC

          We DO know Robin has voted on legislation that would basically legalize discrimination against LGBT+ people in employment and housing. And considering the GOP these days, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’d campaigned on conversion therapy (especially since she’s from Indiana – remember Mike Pence?) and we know she’s been in favour of racist policies before because it’s why Sal doesn’t like her.

          Becky’s definitely nowhere near her dad’s fundie level though, dunno where that’s come from.

        4. Schpoonman

          We’ve also seen Robin currently vote against harmful legislation in Patreon strips and is, again, now actively campaigning progressive policies.

          And I refuse to even consider labeling Becky a fundamentalist. She was raised in a horrible environment and deprived of information. In every instance where someone has said “That is 100% false, here’s the evidence against it,” she’s said “Oh dang, time to update my worldview.” She’s being lumped in, completely unfairly and inaccurately, with the worst parts of her church. It took less than three strips for her to drop “Mankind is only six millenia old,” when Dina forced the issue.

        5. BBCC

          BECKY is campaigning progressive policies. That’s not a guarantee on Robin, as Roz is saying here, especially when we all know what the GOP is like.

          I call Becky a fundamentalist because Willis describes her home sect, of which she still considers herself a believer if not part of that community anymore, as ‘nondenominational fundamentalist Protestants’. I don’t mean Becky hasn’t grown at all or hasn’t shed any of her past beliefs – neither of those are true. She’s clearly changed a lot on LGBT+ rights, women’s rights, worker’s rights, and evolution. I’m not a super religious person so I dunno if those are mutually exclusive with being a fundamentalist, but it seems to me to be the kind of thing to go sect by sect, especially when she was from a nondenominational church to start with.

        6. Chris Phoenix

          BBCC, Becky is not remotely thinking like a fundamentalist. And thinking like a fundamentalist is the most important part of being a fundamentalist.

          Becky has not abandoned her core (Christian) faith. But she has abandoned many of her beliefs and dogmas – and that is, almost by definition, something fundamentalists don’t do.

          Also, both her beliefs and her (deliberate, unrepentant) actions have diverged enough from her cult-of-origin that it’s probably only a matter of time before they kick her out.

          Given how borderline-mentally-ill fundamentalist thinking is (I say that from experience), I think it’s much more accurate to call Becky “a former fundamentalist” or “a rapidly recovering fundamentalist” or even simply “not a fundamentalist” than to continue to tar her with that brush.

        7. BBCC

          Fair enough then. Nondenominational probably suits better then in that case.

        8. TemperaryObsessor

          Becky still considers herself Christian but she has also decided that she’s the type of Christian who believes God answers lesbian prayers.
          Quite frankly I don’t know if Becky was truly fundamentalist at the beginning of the comic or pretended she was because she metaphorically had a gun pointed at her head.

      3. ESM

        There’s also the possibility that Becky DOES understand, and just doesn’t care all that much. Becky, unlike Joyce, hasn’t seen her Dad’s actions as a reason to re-examine her religion. She’s still a fundamentalist, but Robin waving a credit card around was enough for her to skip church. If a few bucks was enough to make her start ignoring church, how confident can we really be that she won’t start ignoring a community she’s never shown any interest in before?

        1. Schpoonman

          Oh, fuck off. Becky is not a fundamentalist. If she were, she wouldn’t be looking to be a scientist through school, nor would she have run from her father, nor would she have skipped on church. She told Joyce that she couldn’t make it ONE DAY because work came up.

        2. Fart Captor

          Becky didn’t NEED to reexamine all the same beliefs Joyce did, because she clearly hadn’t bought into them all, unless you think Becky is homophobic against herself and it’s somehow never come up.

          There have also been multiple entire strips about Becky unlearning the crap she was raised to believe.

        3. Wizard

          Becky has clearly rejected her old church, merely by embracing the truth of her own existence. Whatever church she was planning to attend, I find it hard to believe it’s one still preaching that old time revulsion.

      4. ktbear

        So, if Robin is as bad as everyone is making her out to be, what makes anyone think Robin will stick to her side of the deal anyway, whether she gets elected or not?

        1. BarerMender

          The deal was, Becky would get tuition for next semester and a place to live until then. Both of those have already been provided.

    2. alice

      what exactly would you say to the campaign manager of a republican?

      1. Schpoonman

        I would have heard that Becky was also sabotaging Robin’s campaign, like she told Roz. Try again.

  12. Foxhack

    Someone please refresh my memory. What is Roz talking about here?

    1. JetstreamGW

      No specific things, just the fact that Robin is a bit of an asshole.

      1. Foxhack

        So the “using my little sister” thing hasn’t been explained yet?

        1. timemonkey

          No, but we’ve already seen Roz get dragged personally into Ropbin’s politicking, no reason her other family members would be spared the same.

        2. Needfuldoer

          There are a couple of bonus strips where Robin pulled Riley from school to use her as campaign set dressing. Here’s the closest the main comics get to showing that.

    2. BarerMender

      Robin has sponsored or voted for virulently anti-gay legislation. Robin is a comic-strip version of Trump.

      1. Dean

        No, Trump is a comic strip version of Trump.

        1. BarerMender

          Trump is a comic-strip version of a human being. Robin is, in part, a satirical take on Trump.

        2. HeySo

          While Robin incorperated more references towards Trump starting with Dumbing of Age, due to Willis incorporating more modern references in, she’s a satirical version of several far-right politicians. Back in Walkyverse, I noticed a lot more similarities with Palin (who was a key figurehead for the far-right at the time), for example.

          That said, while the real world individuals she is based off of are irredeemably scummy to extraordinary degrees, Robin has always been played off as careless and thoughtless. While that does make her a tasteless individual, when it comes to her political influence, she doesn’t seem to share in any of the character traits that make real world politicians of the sort so exceptionally.. special.

          Robin always struck me as an overgrown child who just never properly learned to think the consequences of her actions through, and who was easily manipulated by social influences. Then again, I suppose those traits aren’t necessarily unfamiliar to the far right, either.

        3. HeySo

          *That was supposed to be in response to Dean. 😛

          *My reference toward Walkverse was to indicate that she’s still showing much the same overall behavior patterns in DoA, not to make a direct reference off her Walkyverse character [as being relevant to her current character]. In DoA she gives off the impression of being a satire of the far right as a whole, and her references toward Trump-like behaviors are generally few (presumably because she’d instantly turn into a thoroughly loathsome character if the association was emphasized too strongly).

        4. HeySo

          *Sorry, in response to “Robin is a comic-strip version of Trump.”, so not Dean. Site is glitching weirdly for me, and I’m tired to boot. 😛

        5. thejeff

          Yeah, there are definitely Trump parallels – especially back in the rally strips, which IIRC were before Trump won. She had “Make District 9 Great Again” hats and #DeSantoHugeHonkers.

          But she’s not really much like Trump at all. She lacks his essential meanness. And if we were really keeping up the Trump parody, I’d expect to see her tied to Blaine and his (Korean?) mob.

        6. BBCC

          Robin is whatever crappy politician is in the news these days mixed with Robin’s essential personality (her wacky, zany personality) – before Trump she was Sarah Palin, Marco Rubio, and IIRC, she’s dabbled in Ted Cruz as well.

      2. Foxhack

        I meant the using my little sister bit. I’m aware of Roz’s political stance, but don’t recall much about her sister.

        1. Sam

          She has dragged her family to rallies before to use them as human props for family values and to preach things that Roz herself doesn’t believe in at all and hates being a part of. I’m pretty sure it is the things like that.

        2. Yumi

          It may have been a bonus strip, but Robin has been shown taking Riley out of school for the day (when Riley wanted to stay because she was excited for lunch) to, I believe, basically use her as a prop at a campaign rally.

    3. Raen

      Either it’s foreshadowing something to come, or her “macro” impression of Robin has colored her memories on a “micro” level; i.e., in Roz’s Manichean teenage eyes, she’s revealed herself a monster, so her human moments were clearly a calculated ruse.

    4. not someone else

      Nothing big onscreen. I get the impression there may be other stuff in their past that happened that set Roz off specifically.

    5. Tan

      Well, Robin did drag both Roz and Riley to her midnight rally:

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/dispel/

      But in general it mostly seems that being a congresswoman’s little sister is personally inconvenient for Roz. Which frankly seems like her whole raison d’etre for this opposition to Robin getting re-elected far more than actual politics. But maybe that’s just me failing to give Roz the benefit of the doubt after her repeatedly being shitty to every lesbian she meets.

  13. shadowcell

    justice for the oppressed, orrrrrrrrrrr giant stuffed velociraptor…hmmmmmm…

    1. ShinyNeen

      Can’t we have both? Surely justice for the oppressed can include giant stuffed dinosaurs somewhere in there.

      1. Roborat

        Particularly if the velociraptors are stuffed with the bodies of the oppressors, it’s a win-win.

  14. Lala

    Honestly tuition and housing are pretty important for Becky so I think it would be worth it to at least try. Plus she can’t betray you if she doesn’t actually win.

  15. ian livs

    Gotta admit that Roz has a point here. (But I mean, free tuition is free tuition. There’s very little I wouldn’t do for that much money. I *like* to think this is one of those things, but then again, “there but for the grace of [circumstance] go I” and all that.)

    1. huttj509

      In my current life I wouldn’t do that for that much money. If I were freshly on my own, socially abandoned by my adult community, homeless, broke, and working as a pizzaria waitress?

      1. thejeff

        Yeah, lots of things you wouldn’t do for the money go by the wayside when you’re looking seriously at being one step away from living on the street.

  16. ShinyNeen

    Sorry Dorothy, Dinoplushie’s already spoken for. I know, I know. If only we could all be so lucky.

  17. Newllend(henryvolt)

    Finale time I’m throwing it out there, I’m just saying black mail is still on the table as a last resort in case things go south.

    1. Dean

      Maybe leave a severed plush velociraptor head in Robyn’s bed.

  18. Mr. Random

    I’m with Roz on this.
    I sincerely doubt Robin’s going to honor her end of the bargain to pay for Becky’s tuition.
    And after the election, is gonna drop her like a sack of potatoes.

    1. BarerMender

      Becky is already registered for next semester, tuition included.

      1. alice

        i don’t remember seeing any contracts signed, becky could just drop her entirely now that she’s got the money. or wait for an opportune time

        1. Mr. Random

          I keep looking at the wording on the panel back then and can’t tell if that means she already had the tuition paid or if she’s enrolling now with the assumption that the tuition will come soon.
          Did Willis mention which somewhere?

    2. FacelessDeviant

      Becky should definitly get that in writing.

  19. Cattleprod

    The plush dinosaur vote is already locked in, Robin’s campaign is now unstoppable.

  20. JetstreamGW

    Everyone has their price.

  21. foamy

    C’mon, Dorothy interrupt….

  22. Raen

    I missed Roz’s last line, and was briefly confused by Dina’s sudden political savvy.

  23. Robert

    “Only lidless eyes are clear.”
    Kipling, taken completely out of context.

  24. StClair

    Roz DeSanto, activist ally who knows what oppressed minorities need and want better than they do.

    1. BBCC

      Roz isn’t LGBT+, so she shouldn’t talk on that score, but she IS a woman of colour who will absolutely be screwed over if her sister’s re-elected.

      1. regina phalange

        This. I don’t know why Roz has been getting so much hate these last couple of strips. She’s being pretty reasonable, even if obnoxious, given the context of the situation and the fact that she knows Robin better than 99% of the world.

        Frankly, Becky’s willingness to throw minority groups (including her own) under the bus for her own economic interest in basically the epitome of a Republican. Yes, she’s desperate, and yes, she’s trying to do good in the position, but she admits right here what’s more important to her. Frankly, she shouldn’t HAVE to be a martyr, so I’m proud of her for taking opportunities as they come, and I also respect her a lot for truthfully admitting that’s what’s important to her. But Roz is in no way wrong here.

        1. BBCC

          It’s actually Dina talking in the last panel. Becky doesn’t say anything in this strip.

          Back when Becky showed up, Roz was the one who called Joyce on trying to shove aside the church’s homophobia as though she’d taken no part in it. It was obnoxious and blunt, but Joyce admitted later that she’d needed someone to be that mean and that she trusted Roz. I wonder if this will lead to something similar?

        2. Seregiel

          Joyce had obviously had a light bulb moment and didn’t need a percussion instrument even if she ended up accepting it. The most we’ve seen Roz do to Mary is antagonize her about Reagan. Mary needs a whole dang marching band but that didn’t come up in the conversations we’ve witnessed, nor was it written to imply shouting that has been peppered in other scenes. At most, Roz is snarky with Mary and has written her off. She puts in words when it can sound like “I told you so”. (Side note: do not expect Roz to do this in any way and disrupt what little comfort she has found in being stuck in her room assignment on a never ending wait list). That being said… Roz shouldn’t expect Becky to be uncomfortable either if that’s what gives you permission to stop Bongoing for good.

        3. thejeff

          She does have to live with Mary. Mary’s also pretty clearly unreachable. There’s little point in more than minimal interaction with her, as there is with Joyce. Doesn’t mean I think Roz is taking a useful approach with Joyce, of course. Also, both Roz and Mary are minor characters. We generally see them only when interacting with more major characters, not just each other. They could easily have done their early fighting off stage.

        4. BBCC

          We’ve seen Roz and Mary speak three times in the whole comic – once when Roz was half asleep and once when the only thing Mary said was ‘Is someone doing something outside?’ We’ve never seen Roz after she’s heard Mary say (or heard ABOUT Mary saying) something bigoted, BUT we have seen her saying she wanted out.

          As for ‘Joyce needed it’ I am using her words. Take that up with Willis.

        5. Sam

          Roz doesn’t know what the word reasonable means. If she intends to convince Becky that Robin is evil and shouldn’t be reelected, shouting in someone’s face doesn’t tend to be a reasonable way to convince them. Tends to just make them dislike you. Especially when their feelings on the matter are the exact same as yours. Becky doesn’t want betrayed by Robin either.

        6. thejeff

          I’d be a lot more concerned about “Becky’s willingness to throw minority groups (including her own) under the bus for her own economic interest” if it was at all reasonable that Becky’s efforts here would help Robin win. And if it wasn’t at least partly Becky’s efforts that sunk her chances in the first place.

          Robin would have been far better off having Becky arrested for hacking, repudiating all the positions she’d taken on social media and spinning the entire scandal as a fake news frame job that she cleverly played along with long enough to get evidence of the hacker. (That the timeline for all that makes no sense is irrelevant. It frames her as the victim of a liberal conspiracy and thus validates her base’s fears.)

        7. Seregiel

          Becky with the phone and Robin being on Leslie’s couch – which Roz should have a good idea on both of those since that’s when she ended up teaching the class. Roz probably could have done better with a “thank you, but…”

        8. Sunny

          I think it might be because Roz is arguing from a very secure position. Her family’s probably well off, it appears they’re not planning to send her to political conversion camp or brainwashing her into changing her sex-life, she’s got her tuition covered. We learned that despite everything she’s on good enough terms with Robin to get helicopter rides after Leslie threw Robin out of the classroom. It’s great that she’s championing causes of the poor and downtrodden, but she’s never had to experience what it’s like to have one parent die and the other disown you for who you are. She doesn’t know what it’s like to be living from hand to mouth and just one injury or sickness away from being thousands of dollars in debt, or possibly become crippled for life if you choose to not get it treated instead. And we’ve already seen Roz compromise her ideals. She did appear at Robin’s midnight rally when Sal and Amazi-Girl crashed it. She would probably say that she was only there to look after Riley, but nonetheless she appeared as a “family prop” at Robin’s political rally and supported her with that.

          Roz doesn’t realise how lucky she is. It’s very easy for her to talk the uncompromising talk because she has a lot of backup if push ever comes to shove. And despite that she isn’t as unrelenting as she wants everyone else to be. There’s some degree of hypocrisy to her behaviour and she’s demanding more of others than she has shown to be willing to do herself. And to top it off, even if she were willing to be as uncompromising as she demands of others, thanks to her relatively secure position she would have a far easier time than they.
          I think that’s why people have been hating on her lately.

        9. thejeff

          Roz actually claimed she was there because “big sis also wants to keep me where they can keep tabs on me”.
          Family pressure, I’d assume.

      2. Needfuldoer

        Yeah but Roz is “one of the good ones” because Robin knows her personally, so she shouldn’t worry about voting for the Leopards Eating Peoples’ Faces Party!

        … Yech that felt gross to even type.

    2. not someone else

      As much as Becky the individual’s grifting is 1000% understandable, saying that people in general would be better off if someone willing to ally themselves with not only Republicans but (given how comic time works) THESE Republicans, apparently not even because she agrees with anything they say but based on naked ambition is pretty low-hanging fruit.

      …Actually now that I put it like that I think I see exactly why Roz isn’t willing to give Becky any benefit of the doubt. And like BBCC said, it’s not like Roz isn’t an oppressed minority, including one who has a LOT to lose in this climate.

      I don’t know if I agree with her or what, I have no idea how this will actually play out. This seems like one of those cartoonish premises that will wind up having horrifying realistic consequences that Willis likes.

      1. BBCC

        Yeah, Becky definitely has a lot of skin in this game (she’s gay, she works a minimum wage job, she was homeless until yesterday) but so does Roz (reproductive rights and bodily autonomy, sexual freedom, latino rights, etc). I’d say Roz is entitled to be freaking out about the harm her sister will do.

        1. Seregiel

          I’d add bodily autonomy to Becky too since they were programmed to go to college to find a husband and learn early education to better home school their children… and after coming out she was kidnaped to presumably go through conversion therapy.

        2. BBCC

          I was thinking vis a vis rape, sex, and abortion, but yes, bodily autonomy affects Becky too (thought we’ve not heard anything from her about it activism wise).

      2. not someone else

        *saying if (…) didn’t have any chance to get into power

  25. ESM

    I like that we’re being kept in the dark a little about Becky’s feelings here.

    Becky’s been a good guy character, so we expect her to feel guilt and eventually turn on Robin because that’s what good guys do, but she also has no real connection to “the LGBT community”, and has been consistently portrayed as kind of self-centered, so her doing a heel turn and taking Robin’s money ethics-be-damned would be a believable twist. I legitimately don’t know if Becky’s going to learn and grow in this arc or fall to the dark side, and that’s kind of neat.

    (Also, Willis has stated that the universe itself would bend over backwards to make sure nothing bad happens to Becky, and her turning evil would be a cute way to keep that promise)

    1. Schpoonman

      Diagram Becky being self-centered for me.

      1. Fart Captor

        Yeah, I don’t see where one could get that. Becky does more things to make other people happy than pretty much anyone else, and a LOT more worrying about being a burden simply for accepting help when she badly needs it

    2. Sam

      How can she turn on Robin when she has already stated that she isn’t even on Robin’s side to begin with, doesn’t want her to win, and wasn’t trying to unsabotage things in the first place.

      If anyone needs to grow here, it is Roz who keeps blowing up at people and not listening to a single word they say so she can keep attacking them from her high horse of morality.

      1. Hoboturtle

        Because what Becky is doing is legimately helping Robin so far which is why is was hired.

        Also Roz doesn’t even know that Becky is trying to sabotage Robin and Becky isn’t explaining that at all.

        1. Swissaboo

          Its creating a lot of buzz, but running to left of your opponent is now how Republicans win the turnout game that is modern American elections

        2. BBCC

          She may not even be running to Manley’s left – we’ve yet to hear what Manley’s policies are.

        3. thejeff

          If she’s not running to Manley’s left it’s not for lack of Becky’s efforts. 🙂

          But if she’s not running to Manley’s left, what votes is she supposed to be getting that makes this approach a threat? I could almost see it maybe working if Manley was a typical red-state corporate centrist Democrat, trying to win by being Republican-lite. Then naive leftists could be swayed by Robin’s new policy rhetoric.
          But if he’s reasonably progressive then the new Robin wouldn’t be appealing to disaffected leftists but would have to be winning moderate Democrats? With her existing reputation and losing her base support?

          I still can’t take this seriously. But that’s been Robin in DoA all along.

        4. Schpoonman

          Becky said she was sabotaging Robin’s campaign. Minutes ago in this conversation. Roz came back with No True Scotsman bullshit and accused her of being a fundamentalist.

          Roz is right to worry about Robin’s voting record, but attacking Becky when she is actively working against that record makes her the asshole here.

          Ideally, Robin receives no help and is not reelected. But given that starvation and death by exposure are very real threats to Becky right now, she is not at fault for making the best of a bad situation.

        5. Seregiel

          This. Exactly this. People are wondering why others in the commentariat don’t get what Roz is saying. They do. They aren’t even arguing her points are wrong. It’s just they recognize it’s an ever moving goal post of one up man ship about how she is better. It isn’t even about the issues anymore with how she’s expressing herself.

        6. thejeff

          Honestly here it’s not about issues or oneupmanship. It’s about Robin. Robin is Roz’s personal nightmare.
          Everything we sympathized with Leslie about when Robin stormed into her life, that’s been Roz’s whole life – minus the actual crush part, but all the demands and crashing through boundaries.

        7. Seregiel

          I sympathize with Roz, even if I don’t like her. That being said there are people here saying her behavior is okay because it’s understandable or she’s right so why are others being harsh? People are being harsh because she is moving the goal posts of this conversation and being rude. Yes, it is partly one upmanship. For Roz it is about Robin. The way she’s acting it’s now about Roz as a human being too. She knows Robin best but she isn’t expressing any of that. And if she knows Robin best then she also knows she’s going to do what she wants anyways and it isn’t all on Becky. Just because it’s a fear doesn’t give you the right to treat people this way and lash out at a proxy. Getting it and getting a pass are totally different. Roz also helped orchestrate that Leslie/Robin train wreck to our her sister and is currently attacking someone else who had to live through their own personal nightmare that made it to the news and happened on campus.

  26. Bagge

    I love Dorothy’s silent panel as she ponders what fresh insanities have unfolded.

    “Huh? Giant dinosaur plushie?”

    1. NotAnElf

      Speaking f the Plushie, I demand a slipshine f Dina and Becky ding the nasty on said stuffed animal.

      1. Bagge

        I don’t think Becky is quiiiiiiiiiite ready yet.

        She’s getting there fast, though.

        1. Bagge

          Question: If you get married in Vegas, can you have someone dressed as a dinosaur perform the ceremony?

        2. Schpoonman

          No law says you can’t have a regular priest or county clerk dawn a Tricera-Top or goofy T-rex inflatable costume outside of Vegas.

          Five years from now, Becky and Dina are posted up at the alter, the “camera” pans over to the official aaand it’s Hank wearing a slightly less ridiculous version of the dinosaur onesie Becky wore a while back.

        3. Schpoonman

          Aw, dammit, did I really write “dawn” instead of “don”?

        4. Wizard

          Just blame autocorrect.

        5. ValdVin

          I am pretty sure the state of Delmarva will allow this.

        6. Needfuldoer

          Becky and Dina Perform a Cuddle – a Dumbing of Age Not-Pornographique by David “That’s Not What Slipshine is For” Willis.

        7. JBento

          Of course. Everyone knows that Slipshine is for snuggles, not cuddles.

        8. Bagge

          …I would pay. Just putting it out there.

        9. Jhon

          Me too.

  27. abysswatcher1993

    Dina is too focused on the soft dinosaur to care about the fate of the laws that govern her life.

    “The government is outlawing women from the military.”
    Dina: “Don’t care. Hugging dinosaur.”

    However…
    “The Government made evolution teaching optional and allowed intellugent design as an alternative.”
    Dina: “WHAT?!”

  28. Adam Black

    Except her crazy Father is about to get out jail.
    Becky Working for a congresswoman might be the only thing that saves her

    1. abysswatcher1993

      Becky: Yo I have diplomatic immunity!

      1. Bagge

        *cheeky Becky-grin*

      2. thejeff

        Not sure diplomats have immunity to guns.

        1. Bagge

          That’s where Joyce-on-a-motorcycle enters the picture.

          It didn’t go so hot for ToeDad LAST time he tried that whole gun-thing.

        2. Sunny

          Oh crap.

          Becky gets shot at by Toedad and that’s what wins the campaign for Robin.

  29. brasca1

    I have to wonder how much of Roz’s fortunes are tied to Robin. I’m not sure if she knows that she stabbed in her int he back with the pictures of her and Leslie. If she does win or lose Robin and the Desanto family may cut her off. I doubt they’re going to be too pleased if their congresswoman daughter loses the gravy train they’ve no doubt benefited from.

    1. BBCC

      Roz didn’t take the picture.

      1. brasca1

        That’s what she claims, but I don’t believe her especially when she was just bragging to Becky about sabotaging Robin’s campaign.

        1. thejeff

          There’s no reason to think she did. No reason to think she was in the bar or had any idea that Leslie and Robin were going there. There’s also no need, since that’s exactly the kind of thing that does draw attention on social media and Robin was drawing attention to herself already.

          She takes credit for sabotaging the campaign because she brought Robin and Leslie together and set up the circumstances for the photo (and the days hiding out at Leslie’s).

  30. not someone else

    I am now seriously wondering if Becky realizes that Robin will have no way of knowing what she’s doing here in the dorm, so none of this campaigning has the effect of covering her ass but does potentially have the effect of convincing people to actually vote for Robin.

    Like I fully believe she’s not interested in Robin getting elected but this is not the effective way to grift a campaign manager position, like it’s not exactly a full-scale rational GOTV campaign either but…

    1. Sam

      It really hasn’t convinced anyone to vote for Robin. This covers her enough that if Robin were inclined to ask her if she asked people, Becky could truthfully say yes and she can point to specific people or literally say to ask Roz who saw her doing it. And it is small scale enough, that even if some of the people she asks do vote for Robin. It is unlikely to change things since it has been said that Robin’s opponent is far ahead of her.

      It would only be an ineffective method if Robin was a more professional person who would actually make sure Becky’s making real effort that could make an actual difference. But if you remember, Robin did hire a lamp. She might choose to spontaneously but there is also a good chance she will not check up on Becky nearly as much as someone competent would or as thoroughly either.

    2. Fart Captor

      Well at least now she’ll have witnesses who saw her campaigning in relative proximity to DinoPlush, in case that particular campaign expense ever gets scrutinized

  31. Jonah (Amelia) Sanville

    but, like…..beckys plan is to purposefully fuck up??? did roz miss that part or

    1. GoblinScribe

      Becky hasn’t told anyone that part, because she can’t without getting fired. So yes, Roz did “miss” it. That’s why Becky is talking about “controlling her messaging”, which, by the way, could actually score Robin votes among those who think, “It’s okay, Becky is controlling the message.”

      Which will backfire when Robin turns on Becky.

      Roz has every right here.

  32. CJ

    Is that Dina’s voice from the dorm room?

    1. Schpoonman

      Yep.

  33. BenRG

    It will have been worth it because of giant velociraptor plushie!

  34. NinjaNick

    Becky, just do your thing to make Roz miserable.

  35. Err

    What I don’t get is why everyone seems so sure Robin will go back to her old beliefs. Everything I’ve seen so far suggests she has no real beliefs aside from “life will be easier if I get reelected.” If this ends up working for her, would she really abandon the policies that helped her achieve her goals? Is there some alternate universe knowledge I’m missing out on?

    1. Fuchs Sakemann

      That’s a good point that no one seems to be bringing up. Robin doesn’t have any actual beliefs beyond “if this gets me reelected, I’m gonna do it.” If Becky’s heavily liberal campaign is able to get her reelected, there’s a possibility she’s going to keep backing that strictly on her mindset of “I’ll stay in office if I keep doing this.” Granted, Robin could just turn and keep doing what she’s been doing, but it would actively prevent her from being reelected after that, since no one would believe she would actually do what she says she will the next time. It’s a very difficult situation that I can definitely see both Roz and Becky’s mindset. One is pessimistically realist, and the other is optimistically idealist. It’s very hard to say which will land true.

      1. thejeff

        Yeah, I’ve been arguing that it’s at least possible for awhile now.
        It’s not guaranteed, since Robin’s a flake, but it’s also not guaranteed that she’s going to revert to conservative norms.

  36. Hoboturtle

    Wow, people really hate Roz enough tonrealize that she is absolutely right.

    Robin isn’t going to keep these promises. Hell Becky knows for a fact that she’s not keeping the promises. Why is Becky enough acting offended when this is pointed out to her?

    1. Hoboturtle

      To not realize*

    2. Hoboturtle

      Like it’s really weird seeing the fact that people like Becky and hate Roz is forcing them to essentially make right wing talking points
      (Becky needs to put her own financial situation above others, Roz is being rude, etc)

      1. Michelicopter

        Thank you! I have been so confused reading the comments lately… I don’t get why people hate Roz so much. She is hotheaded and rude about stuff is about all I see wrong with her. She is still right to tell Becky that what she is doing is dangerous and bad. We already know Becky is impulsive and isn’t great at thinking through consequences (see her running around drawing attention to herself and telling everyone on campus that she is a lesbian when she was supposed to be in hiding for example). This dressing down from Roz, while perhaps unfairly harsh (it wouldn’t be all Becky’s fault if Robin won and then did bad things) could still be the necessary thing to make Becky think about how she is putting herself first, above any and all other homeless LGBT youth who haven’t had a preposterous opportunity fall into their laps.

        1. Needfuldoer

          She also has a tendency to Ally way too hard, bordering on “I know what you need better than you do” at times.

        2. JBento

          She was mean to the pretty white Christian girl. That’s where it all started, and it started so hard Willis actually had to add a word to the filter.

      2. Seregiel

        It’s the fact that she’s blaming Becky for Robin’s inability to keep her word and keeps changing the goal posts, paired with her being rude. Robin was always going to be floppy. She admitted as much in the gender studies class that you just agree with the guys. Roz went from reducing Becky to a fundie, to getting in a liberal dick measuring contest without Becky having a chance to state her position, to saying she’s ineffective anyways. It’s not that any one thing isn’t true – it’s that she doing this as rude and confrontational as possible based on her own story while ignoring and talking over any of Becky’s…who considering she knows is a lesbian and should probably pause and check in considering how loud she is about her ally’s hip ability to see where she’s coming from. Becky could be making conservative promises, and Robin still wouldn’t stick to them unless they would get her elected and keep her butt in a seat. Becky is trying to get robin elected on a liberal platform… which if she ignores Will tank her, and if it’s too big of a swing will tank her. Plus, Roz wanted to push her sister out of the closet while becky hijacked her phone… these two should be two peas.

  37. TheFlamingonator

    Solution: Roz takes over as Robin while they hide the real Robkn in some remote location, distractkng her eith shiny things and Steven Universe reruns.

  38. BenRG

    We’ve known for a very long time that Roz doesn’t like Robin. However, this is the first confirmation (that I’ve seen at least), that Roz hates and fears her older sister.

    1. BBCC

      Political context has changed IRL. That’s not helping in the story.

  39. Arianod

    Roz is finally making a point.

    1. Tyler Durham

      Maybe I’m being uncharitable.because I genuinely can’t stand Roz, but i see this whe.interatcion as lashingout at a disadvantaged gay woman who until recently was homeless and grabbed the first lifeline she saw.

  40. FacelessDeviant

    As far as I see it, Becky is doing what she must to keep a roof over her head and get a chance at an education. She was -homeless- until she got the opportunity to work for Robin. I very much doubt Roz, being the sister of a powerful person like Robin, has much experience with homelessness and/or poverty. Perhaps Roz could get Becky somewhere to live and an education. I bet she’d drop her post as Robins social media warlock in a heart beat if she could.

    Also, I am pretty sure that employing a lgbt youth that has been hurt by religious extremism will cause a lot of embarassment for not only Robin, but the entire conservative side in the state when it goes big.

    1. Tyler Durham

      Preach!

    2. thejeff

      We already saw a hint of that in Robin’s reaction to Becky’s first press conference.

    3. Amias

      Yep. The unfortunate reality for many folks – especially LGBTQ+ folks on the edge of homelessness – is that we can’t let it matter who pays us. This gig was too good for her to pass up. It’s not just fixing the immediate problem (food, shelter, financial independence) but also setting her up for a more or less sustainable future, what with securing tuition. Even if this doesn’t pay out for more than a year, she’ll have a much easier time applying for loans and jobs when she’s in a less tenuous living situation.

  41. He Who Abides

    Dammit Roz, how dare you ruin everyone’s good times with logic and reason!

    I’m being facetious, she’s making a ton of sense.

  42. C.T Phipps

    I think the big thing Becky has to worry about now is getting Robin to sign contracts (get Dorothy to write them) that get all of the promises made guaranteed.

    1. Agemegos

      A contract that pretended to constrain the vote of a legislator would be illegal, and the courts would refuse to enforce it.

    2. JBento

      Do NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, trust a Dorothy-written contract to be water-tight. Dorothy has neither the spine nor the meanness to be a half-decent lawyer. Get Raidah to write those contracts.

      1. Pearl

        Or you could get an adult to write them.

        1. JBento

          Have you MET the Dumbiverse adults?

      2. ValdVin

        Let’s not forget that Sarah can be “smart and mean” for the proper purpose.

  43. Classic Appa

    Eh, Roz is right to try and tank any hope her sister has at election, but Becky shouldn’t really trip too much over this. Her chances of success is very very small. If she really pulls it off it will probably have more to do with Robin than with her. People have done a lot worse for a lot less. There are plenty of unpleasant jobs in the world, but I’m not about to stop being friends with my pal because he works at a gun manufacturing plant.

  44. ruhrow

    It’d be one thing if Becky had to publicly espouse Robin’s ideas in order to perform her new job. But somehow, she actually ended up having ROBIN represent HER ideas in order to hopefully get reelection.

    Robin dgaf about the actual issues. She’ll vote for whatever she’s ‘supposed’ to vote for and whatever keeps her popular. If she somehow wins because she’s using liberal talking points, I’d argue that she’s less likely to vote conservatively than she was before Becky got involved.

    Becky’s not betraying any of her values in taking this job. Robin is betraying her values by hiring her. Robin is still an irresponsible jerk, but that’s due to her behavior, not her politics…which never seemed to be core beliefs of hers anyway.

  45. Pearl

    Roz is wrong. I’ll take a Becky-influenced Robin DeSanto abandoned by her party over some run of the mill establishment Democrat a hundred times out of a hundred. She’s being an abrasive jerk and she’s also extremely wrong.

    Roz, as far as I’m concerned, is a villain right now. I’d put her above Mary but below Toedad. But frankly, not a lot below Toedad.

    1. Pearl

      Roz is welcome to pay Becky’s tuition and let her crash with her. Otherwise she can shut up just like every other rich fuckhead who yells at homeless people to get real jobs.

      1. Pearl

        Like the absolute fact here is that between Roz and Robin, Robin has shown infinitely more ability to actually interact with Becky as a capable and respectable human being. Roz is the one using Becky, and it’s not even for something cool like getting elected, it’s for real just for an ego trip. Get fucked Roz.

        1. Pearl

          And frankly, even if Robin DOES go back to being the worst, Becky will have 1. brought attention to a lot of important things and 2. demonstrated that someone can win their district on those issues with those positions. Which is really important for making social progress, because it shuts up people like Roz.

        2. Delicious Taffy

          It’s actually much more important to be loud and point fingers at people than it is to demonstrate that some good can happen in the world if you do things a certain way. Roz points her finger at people a lot and says things angrily for all to hear, which makes her right.

        3. Derek

          How in the heck is Roz using Becky?

        4. TemperaryObsessor

          She’s claiming 100% credit for something that was at least 10% the result of Becky’s efforts.
          But I think Pearl is saying that Roz is using Becky for an outrage fix, for a chance to put a “conservative” in their place, for a chance to be right.

        5. Pearl

          Bingo.

      2. Derek

        you know, Becky trying to fix her homeless situation is not a bad thing, but being willing to do ANYTHING to get there can be.
        There’s always a moral limit of what one is willing to do to help their own situation and this storyline highlights that Roz’s limit is “actually helping a weasel politician” while Becky’s is “lying to a politician about helping them to get money” and they both have valid reasons.

        Also I think it’s TOO charitable to Robin to pretend she ever met or talked to Becky on a human level or tried to understand her

        1. TemperaryObsessor

          Is it Roz’s limit.
          What is Roz actually giving up?
          Are you sure this is a moral thing and not a I’m tired of being a prop in someones play thing.
          I’m starting to think if Robin wins and stands by her “new beliefs” Roz is going to be upset because how dare Robin do the right thing if it helps Robin, and more importantly I now either have to change my beliefs or support Robins beliefs.

        2. Pearl

          Roz doesn’t have a limit because she’ll never be in that situation, she’ll never be in ten percent of that situation. She can’t have a limit, she can only have a self-righteous, condescending idea of where that limitation should be.

  46. Kingmonster

    Sooooooooo…Roz isn’t down with Becky’s plan to sabotage her from within while stealing funds to help pay for college?

    1. Delicious Taffy

      Nope, because there’s a snowball’s chance in hell that Robin might actually win and then just keep being shitty, which makes it entirely 100% Becky’s fault.

      See, it’s Becky’s fault because Becky is accepting money for her work, and accepting money for your work is the worst thing you could possibly do. It’s not Robin’s fault, because it’s Becky’s fault. It all makes sense if you’re a blame-slinging hothead.

  47. Vulcanodon

    Roz isn’t wrong, but she’s expecting a vulnerable person to make a big sacrifice

    1. Zaxares

      Exactly. I’m reminded of an argument I saw once on another forum about why more Germans didn’t stand up to Hitler and the Nazi party. And the simple answer was, “They were afraid, and it was easier to just keep their heads down and try to avoid trouble.” How many people all throughout history were in similar circumstances, just because they desperately needed this paycheck, or because they couldn’t afford the trouble that would come from doing the right thing? It’s easy to take the high road when it’s not you who would have to bear the consequences of doing so.

      1. Delicious Taffy

        If doing the right thing puts you out on the street, then congratulations on being an upstanding homeless person. I’m sure realtors, grocery stores, and gas stations will accept righteous causes as payment, so you shouldn’t be down on your luck for too long. Right?

      2. Pearl

        Important caveat: Robin is not a Nazi and so the situations aren’t comparable. History now looks down on those who kept their heads down to Hitler, and rightly so, but the stakes are just not anything near as high here.

        1. JBento

          *looks at US politics*

          …yet.

        2. BBCC

          This about the fact history looks down on those who kept their heads down, especially on those who collected pay checks at the camps.

          Here’s a pretty good post on that actually: https://northstarfan.tumblr.com/post/184518017967

        3. JBento

          This seems needlessly mean. “I was just following orders” is the opening lyrics to that great dance song, “The Nuremberg Fandango”.

        4. thejeff

          But a homeless person working on a political campaign is long distance from soldiers committing war crimes.
          Especially when the campaign she’s running is actually focused on the opposite message from any crimes Robin might be linked to.

        5. BBCC

          I’m not arguing this is equivalent to Becky’s situation. I was referring to Nazis. Pearl already added the caveat that Robin and Becky are not comparable, so I didn’t think I needed to tack that on again in reply to her.

        6. thejeff

          Ah, I’d read you as disagreeing with Pearl and saying the general principle applied. My bad.

        7. BBCC

          No, I get it – I was trying to add on because her comment about history not being forgiving of average people who joined the Nazis for a paycheque reminded me of that post.

          Speaking of adding on – both Ordinary Men and Victor Klemperer’s diary I Will Bear Witness are really illuminating reads if you ever want to know how much the average German really knew about what was going on (tl;dr – it was…more than a lot of German citizens claimed to have known afterwards).

  48. Charlotte

    This has nothing to do with the comic, but with the website:
    Today when I went onto the site, I was once again asked to give consent for third-party companies to install cookies on my computer.
    Because I care about such things I went to indicate my preferences, but in contrast to many other websites, where I can easily disallow/allow ALL cookies for a specific purpose, on this website you have to select this individually for 100s and 100s of companies (which means in practice that you have to click “deselect” A LOT because of course by default everything is selected).

    Does a webcomic really need to come with tracking cookies from (literally!) several 100 advertising companies?

    I did go and deactivate everything that I could (again). To be clear, I don’t mind seeing ads — that’s how the website is funded, after all — but I do mind being followed and spied on online by 100s of companies.

  49. Indoor Cat

    What’s the word for being right, but about the wrong thing? Roz is a leftist. She’s right (probably) that her sister will just go back to voting conservative if Becky gets her elected.

    But Robin is able to manipulate Becky because she’s impoverished, homeless, and socially rejected (by her family and home church) because she’s a lesbian. So, as a leftist, the right thing to do would empower Becky by giving her more options to find a more ethical means to get money, housing, and a strong social group.

    As a leftist, Roz should know better than anyone that the system has gotten Becky into a tough position, and she’s making the best of it.

    The best leftists help combat the poverty that results from capitalism run amok in their own communities. Maybe they start non-profits, or set up communal / shared housing initiatives. Maybe they campaign for fairer zoning laws or other legal initiatives to fight capitalist forces. Maybe they just help their friends one at a time, sitting down with them to help them navigate the labyrinth of applying for jobs or welfare options.

    But the worst leftists just…berate people who are less liberal than them, or shame actual poor people who make ethical compromises to survive and reach a sustainable level of health and mental wellness.

    So Roz is right that, as a lesbian, Becky is seriously compromising her ethics here by helping an anti-LGBT candidate (among other things), and that Robin isn’t trustworthy. But, she’s wrong to pick this fight. She’s wrong to berate and shame rather than work with Becky to figure out alternative solutions.

    Roz is one of my favorite characters (I know I’m in the minority on this), but I love her because of her flaws. And this is a big one. I get being an angry truth-teller; it’s a great vibe. But it’s not always the right choice.

  50. Seregiel

    I dislike Roz as a person. I don’t dislike a lot of what she holds dear. I don’t find her to be a monster. I find she is her most obnoxious to those she can say “told you so” to versus putting that energy into genuine allyship. We’ve never seen her get this way at Mary. She just taunts her about Regean.

    She’s a teen and it’s hard to get the balance on expression and timing. Would she be as acidic if she wasn’t as afraid? Is she naturally loud or did she get that way trying to compete with her eldest in politics and the rest at home as a middle? I think I’d like Roz a decade from now, but in the moment, I need Sierra to fetch Joe’s sock and stuff it somewhere.

    1. Deadjolras

      Yeah, how dare Roz not constantly fight with Mary, a seemingly unreachable bigot she has to actually live with? “We’ve never seen her this way with Mary” because we’ve hardly seen them together at all.

      1. Seregiel

        Actually, I made the point above that I wouldn’t expect her to constantly bang that drum in the name of comfort because she can’t get away. I also said that if her comfort is what comes before her morals, than she can’t fault Becky for the same choice. That said, most comics and stories fall under the “show, don’t tell” philosophy and if the most we’ve seen them I’d be snarky at each other while she’s actually been shouting at others for her beliefs –
        Then yeah, jumping on people isn’t the way to convert.

        1. Fart Captor

          While I can’t and don’t hold Becky’s decision against her, those choices aren’t comparable.

          It’s not as if Mary would change and be less awful if Roz was on her case all the time. Choosing her own comfort there has no impact (real or potential) on anyone but herself.

          Becky, on the other hand, actually CAN influence whether Robin gets re-elected, which in turn would impact the entire country.

          She’s being a pretentious jerk about it, but Roz is actually justified in being concerned and it’s not reasonable for her to voice those concerns to Becky.

      2. Tan

        Actually, -yes-, what you said without the sarcasm. How dare she only stand up for her principles if she has nothing to lose, when her principles include shitting on someone for keeping herself off the street. She is asking Becky to give up housing and tuition to probably not make any difference in whether Robin gets reelected or not, but she’s not willing to give up keeping peace with her roommate to get in a known bigot’s face?

    2. ItsASecret

      I think Roz is fully aware that, unlike Mary, Becky is someone who will actually understand her perspective. What’s the point of talking to someone like that who has already decided to disregard you? This particular instance also kind of comes off as protective…that whole “she is using you” quote seems to hint at a sense of betrayal, like Roz has been here and didn’t understand at the time how Robin was going to turn on her, and she doesn’t want Becky to go through that same thing.

      1. Seregiel

        Again, getting someone’s motives doesn’t mean that how they are expressing them are good. She’s going to hold Becky accountable for Robins actions. She bled a lot of her own hurt all over the place while putting it onto another person and not even understanding their own hurts that led them there.

  51. Lone Duck

    I get the feeling like Roz doesn’t have a lot of good examples of empathy or understanding other individual perspectives. Abstractly, helping Robin win is not great. But what has Roz done for homeless lesbians? The point would mean more coming from Leslie, but Leslie is mature enough not to make it so brusquely.

  52. Nothri

    In psychology they say the thing you hate most about yourself is what you criticize most in other people. I bring this up while thinking of a few instances where Roz has been pretty manipulative herself and going “hmmmm”.

  53. Trash Nerd

    I’m sorry I have to put in my two cents: Roz needs to climb down off her fucking high horse. Becky was disowned by her family and most of her community, was assaulted and nearly kidnapped by her violently homophobic father, and made homeless. She has no money and very few life skills and resources. Becky knows that Robin’s mostly full of shit and is doing what she needs to try and make her own life.
    Roz comes from money and privilege and is very good at saying the right things, but she largely has no skin in the game. She’s frequently talked over others to show herself as being a good ally (like with Lesley), but what is she actually doing to champion the causes she claims to advocate? Other than having a lot of casual sex and promoting sexual expression/safe sex (not slut-shaming but she mostly seems to express her advocacy for things that directly benefit her or to piss off her sister) she really doesn’t seem to grasp that some people are not as lucky as her and may have to do things that are morally questionable to survive.

    1. Eve

      Does Roz come from money and privilege? Like, I was under the impression it was Robin’s job that got her her money and any power the family has, and it’s a family that would happily kick out one of their kids. Is their family supposed to be wealthy or powerful other than the one member that Roz is completely opposed to?

      1. Eldritch Gentleman

        Honestly the things I heard about US politics imply that she’d need the cash to even become a candidate for her post so I imagine her family is pretty loaded.

        1. Schpoonman

          AOC did prove that grassroots campaigns can work, though that’s definitely a fringe case.

        2. Eve

          She managed it pretty cashless in shortpacked? Tho that tends towards far more sillyness than DOA.

  54. Cerberus

    To partially defend Roz, this really does seem to be coming from a place of lived experience and pain.

    She believes that Robin will twist this in her own favor and fuck Becky and others over later because that’s been her lived experience with Robin. Heck, we’ve seen Robin use twisted leftist points in her efforts to avoid internalizing any real lesson when talking with Leslie.

    Roz comes from that family and so has internalized that there is no way to redeem Robin, only destroy her and so she is filled with anger when she sees others making the mistake she has made in the past.

    Now, whether she is right or it is right to get angry at someone for trying to do the same thing you once did, especially when that person is just trying to survive a very rigged game? That’s a whole nother thing.

    But I do believe her anger is coming from a real lived place that is skewing her response.

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