That’s more or less what I was thinking. She doesn’t say anything about what’s bothering her, she doesn’t want to fix anything, she just wants Joyce to feel bad and maybe, possibly, doubt her relationship. Which again makes me question if this is really about Joyce and Dot doing protesting wrong or if it’s about Sarah.
Odo
Probably has more to do with Joyce trying to seduce Jacob while he and Raidah were dating. She already hated Joyce on Joyce’s own merit, independent of Sarah.
Yeah, I forgot that happened. Maybe it would also take Joyce a moment to connect the dots. Raidah has waited six months for her to present a weakness she could attack in revenge for her insult? She couldn’t just let Joyce know she thought what Joyce did was wrong and showed some defects of character she should work on, or something? Nope just gotta hurt her feelings.
She can, in fact, die mad about it. Especially once Joyce figures out what it is she wants to do now instead of homeschooling her cult children and changes her major.
Pocky
which I guess makes it even pettier if she’s holdin a grudge about her ex being crushed on by some repressed virgin, enough to threaten her in a pretty homophobic way. So I guess the exact kind of person we were thinking of lol
To be fair, that’s not a threat. She’s just observing “homophobia is real and it’ll keep you out of that job you said you wanted. Sucks to be you.” Cause, as she explains, the only point is to hurt Joyce and the only way to do that (thinks Raidah) is taking away something she wants.
Pocky
she’s just suggesting that this whole picture thing would totally come back up later, maybe used by her or not, to screw Joyce over in the future.
But totally not a threat tho /s
Throwatron
haha damn you’re right, I actually did not consider this from the perspective of “ha ha nerd i have kompromat over you forever, never cross me again or i will ruin your entire life out of spite” angle. I was just assuming she was being as hurtful as possible, because that’s been her MO in nearly every one-on-one character interaction we’ve witnessed her in.
gnomedeplume
there is no non-homophobic reason to use that as a weapon against someone
Heavensrun
Yeah, it doesn’t matter if you’re motivated by hating the person or if you’re motivated by hating the homosexuality, homophobia is homophobia.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Oh it’s a threat. Someone doesn’t need to say, “or else,” for a threat to be communicated. Unsaid in the above interaction is:
“I know you. I’m watching you. I’m tracking your career. I know this will take years to bear fruit. I have the information needed to destroy your job in the future.”
None of that was said explicitly, but it was all communicated.
But if she was going to do that, why would she warn her about it now? …Maybe it’s silly of me to expect people to be smart about their dumbass revenge schemes.
Throwatron
Because by doing it now, she hopefully destabilizes Joyce, and therefore keeps Joyce from ever making anything of herself. Like, she downgraded Dorothy’s entire life’s dream in one carefully-delivered sentence, with deliberate intent.
Because her view on the social ladder is exactly the same as Littlefinger from freaking Game of Thrones, anybody who has shown any ability to oppose her, or to keep any associations that are opposed to her sphere of influence, can be proactively dealt with by restricting them from climbing to higher rungs on the social ladder, in any way possible. If you give someone a mental breakdown, they start making dumb-ass decisions, and you don’t have to worry about them ever punching in your weight class, ever again.
When you mention Dorothy, it is pretty funny picturing Raidah going around all smug like “muahaha I’m the best at manipulation, I ruined her life with one sentence” when Dorothy was deep in the process of reexamining her life goals before Raidah got involved. (Just like Joyce.)
Maybe her intervention even sped up the process and led directly to making that big front page kiss happening! Pity to be a social climber trying to climb over people who care more about building relationships with each other. They may not even realize the things you do to hurt them are supposed to hurt.
Elsewise
Eh, even if it’s not a threat, it’s still “haha, you’re going to be discriminated against and it will impact your job prospects!” So I’m comfortable calling Raidah homophobic for this even if she genuinely didn’t mean she’ll do anything about it.
AlexaSpuds
Raidah is the definition of performative woke because the moment she encounters even the slightest push of unpleasantness she goes out of her way to be bigoted instead of being mean in the literal hundreds of ways that exist.
thejeff
Well, other than not showing any actual signs of being woke.
There is this theory the comments section fielded that she’s actually invested in freeing Bulmeria and had real reasons to be mad about the girls (and the paper’s reporting) derailing the protest, but yeah, I’m not sure what that is based on.
deliverything
I’ve a vague memory of her previously stating intentions to work in favour of social justice issues in her future legal career, but searching back through the strips, what little there is, aside from being buried in social climbing and pettiness, is likely to be primarily because she views it as part of her future career.
As an example: when she mentions Harrison being part of a team that struck down anti-trans laws in Indiana — https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/laws/ — that could be read as her approving of his helping people, but she could just as well be thinking about how the feat would enhance his future prospects… and context from other strips makes the latter seem more likely.
Note also the last three panels of the following strip.
To be fair, though: I’d rather have someone who works to better society for the sake of their own career than… well, people who worsen it for similar reasons (e.g. certain Greedy Old Politicians I’ll avoid naming).
Far too many to name. But you’re right, of course. I have said in the past your reasons for helping people don’t matter, as much as it pains me to be (actually) fair to Raidah. . .
thejeff
Remember this is Raidah. It’s at least plausible that she’s talking up Harrison because Jacob idolizes him, regardless of what she thinks of trans people or those civil rights cases. Or partly as well in that case, to see how the fundie Joyce reacts to the mention of trans people.
Icalasari
Yeah, it’s like, Raidah isn’t exactly written to be likeable, but she has every reason to see Joyce as a selfish monster – Because every interaction with Joyce has involved Joyce either attempting to manipulate things her way, or seeming like she is manipulating things bigger than her to be about her
AlexaSpuds
REAL AND TRUE
Poewar
She only chose Elementary Education because she wanted to homeschool her kids. She’d be far from the first Freshman to change her major. Raidah is lobbing softballs.
wetmonstersmell
yeah Raidah thinks she’s being SO MEAN here but I think Joyce is mostly just (justifiably) kind of confused
Donovan
Ahaha holy shit
Donovan
Wow
Big Z
Good ol’ Raidah.
mommert
Jesus Christ
Rimwalker55
Every accusation a projection. Where have I heard that before?
Wiktionary, etc., appear to agree with you on that attribution.
Today I learned… ?
Ian Clark
I think Raidah might be more complicated than that. She seems to have a conscience, but she’s also very prone to rationalizing. Aside from her “Human cost” interaction with Dorothy, she definitely thinks that everything she’s doing is for everyone’s benefit, and that the fact that it’s to her benefit more than anyone else’s is just a fun little perk.
Actually, come to think of it, that last part describes pretty much anyone who’s good at rationalizing.
deliverything
I should’ve scrolled down before commenting. You said it better than I did.
I was thinking that too. “You only care about yourself” and “You have no shame” both sound more like things Raidah would say to a mirror than anything anyone who’s met Joyce would say.
Brendan of 6
I mean those are the things that have been said about Joyce frequently in the comment sections.
By people who are taking Joyce having an unusually interesting day as revealing her fundamentally evil character? I can see the connection there. . .
Icalasari
In this case, it’s valid. Remember, the bulk of Raidah’s interactions with Joyce have been either Joyce turning Jacob against Raidah for her own purposes, or a photo that without deeper context seems like attempting to steal the limelight of the protest for herself. Even if Raidah wasn’t a manipulator, she’d probably say something similar to this to Joyce
Matticus
Oh, hey, pot! Name’s Kettle, have we met?
shadowcell
tragically, indiana is the only state there is, making this a devastating blow to joyce’s future
Charles Phipps
I’m not sure Joyce would survive New York. It’d be like HP Lovecraft moving there with his wife.
Astariel
She’d probably be okay in suburban New York. I had a gay kindergarten teacher here in 1987 and no one had a problem with it that I ever heard.
Astariel
As an additional plus, we have very few fundies.
Thecatcameback
I moved from the Deep Midwest to New York, and I gotta say, Joyce would be fine. Parts of upstate New York are more aggressively rural American than places in the Midwest. Also, if Joyce wants to be an elementary school teacher in Indiana, she can do it, there are plenty of liberal pockets. I worked as an openly lesbian educator in the Midwest for four years recently and nobody ever stopped me in a way that mattered. Had to have some talks with some kids about not using “gay” as an insult, and explain to another teacher that my being a gay person wasn’t “inappropriate for children,” also got shamed by another lesbian faculty member for being too openly gay (I mentioned that I have a partner who is a woman in front of the kids), but overall, the vast majority of people and kids were completely and entirely chill. A lot even learned something about gay people being normal. Fuck Raidah.
RassilonTDavros
I mean if fiction follows reality long-term, she might end up in Ohio.
Bittersweet
My child tells me that this is a terrible fate to befall someone. I don’t know what Ohio did to the 7 year olds of the world, but she feels very strongly about it.
Thallone
I have read a lot of threads with Ohioans and mthey seem to share the sen timent though
espanolbot
My significant other’s from Cinci, and they say that the reason why so many astronauts and pilots come from Ohio is because they want to get as far away from it as possible.
Skorpeyon
Am an Ohioan, can confirm. Ohio is not much better than Indiana, tbh, at least the rural parts I’m from.
Rachel McCall
For once the kids are right
Pappenheimer
Plenty of good folks in OH but the state’s been gerrymandered from purple to arterial red, allowing well-documented one-party corruption to flourish. It’s now, like neighboring WV, a good state to be from. Dunno what they’ve done to 7 year olds in particular but public school funding’s been cut in favor of vouchers for private schools and charter schools. Ice cream’s still legal, though.
Rose by Any other Name
This.
The entire north east of Ohio, like from Columbus to Cleveland, has an extremely high LGBT+ population and lots of very liberal people – and we’re surrounded on all sides, our voting districts turned into insane gigsaw puzzles specifically to make certain that none of our votes count for shit.
Allandrel
Ohioan here. Can confirm.
GreyICE
I wouldn’t wish Ohio on my worst enemy.
eh, whatever
“It’s all Ohio?”
“Always has been”
Whirlakitty
Since she won’t be graduating until like, 2065 at the earliest, I’m really hopeful we won’t have such horrific attitudes by then.
Elsewise
She’d probably be fine in lots of places! But to do that, she’d have to accept that the state she’s lived in her whole life so far isn’t the place she WILL live in her whole life, which seems like it might be tough for Joyce in particular.
DailyBrad
Guys, I’m beginning to think Raidah’s not a great person.
Jay
She’s the literal 2nd worst. Such an egotistical bitch
Harry Brownhole
Shes not wrong though
AlexanderHammil
i mean, technically she is wrong, indiana does have laws against discrimination against gay people, particularly state employees. she couldn’t get a job at a private or christian school, maybe, but she could still be an elementary school teacher.
Li
I envy your naive belief that discrimination being illegal means it can’t happen.
Any state with “at-will” employment (aka Right to Work states) means any employer can terminate you at any time without a reason, so they just don’t write “because she has a girlfriend” on the paperwork and fire Joyce anyway.
gnomedeplume
not being wrong doesn’t make you not a piece of shit
Yes she is. She’s a complete piece of shit, and wrong.
Minivet
In projecting that this particular goal might be a problem for her in many years, she’s technically right.
She’s wrong in:
– Assuming Joyce cares deeply about elementary education as a career
– Assuming Joyce cares deeply about staying in Indiana (heck, she may will be fine in
– Acting like that’s a reasonable thing for Joyce to self-limit on practically – love often changes your perspective and plans
– Acting like this is some kind of moral defect on Joyce’s part – “how dare you limit yourself based on how future homophobes might retaliate against you!”
She’s also tendentious in assuming Indiana will be at least as homophobic in public policy terms in four years.
1,048 thoughts on “Elementary education”
Ana Chronistic
die mad about it, Raidah
Pocky
Raidah would be that kind of person to get a teacher who has to do only fans on the side fired, just because she doesn’t like them personally lol
StClair
oh absolutely she would.
Throwatron
but don’t forget she would also loudly proclaim her undying support of the same person’s freedoms, publicly, because it’s good for her image
Dawn
Oh 100%.
Amelie Wikström
That’s more or less what I was thinking. She doesn’t say anything about what’s bothering her, she doesn’t want to fix anything, she just wants Joyce to feel bad and maybe, possibly, doubt her relationship. Which again makes me question if this is really about Joyce and Dot doing protesting wrong or if it’s about Sarah.
Odo
Probably has more to do with Joyce trying to seduce Jacob while he and Raidah were dating. She already hated Joyce on Joyce’s own merit, independent of Sarah.
Amelie Wikström
Yeah, I forgot that happened. Maybe it would also take Joyce a moment to connect the dots. Raidah has waited six months for her to present a weakness she could attack in revenge for her insult? She couldn’t just let Joyce know she thought what Joyce did was wrong and showed some defects of character she should work on, or something? Nope just gotta hurt her feelings.
She can, in fact, die mad about it. Especially once Joyce figures out what it is she wants to do now instead of homeschooling her cult children and changes her major.
Pocky
which I guess makes it even pettier if she’s holdin a grudge about her ex being crushed on by some repressed virgin, enough to threaten her in a pretty homophobic way. So I guess the exact kind of person we were thinking of lol
Amelie Wikström
To be fair, that’s not a threat. She’s just observing “homophobia is real and it’ll keep you out of that job you said you wanted. Sucks to be you.” Cause, as she explains, the only point is to hurt Joyce and the only way to do that (thinks Raidah) is taking away something she wants.
Pocky
she’s just suggesting that this whole picture thing would totally come back up later, maybe used by her or not, to screw Joyce over in the future.
But totally not a threat tho /s
Throwatron
haha damn you’re right, I actually did not consider this from the perspective of “ha ha nerd i have kompromat over you forever, never cross me again or i will ruin your entire life out of spite” angle. I was just assuming she was being as hurtful as possible, because that’s been her MO in nearly every one-on-one character interaction we’ve witnessed her in.
gnomedeplume
there is no non-homophobic reason to use that as a weapon against someone
Heavensrun
Yeah, it doesn’t matter if you’re motivated by hating the person or if you’re motivated by hating the homosexuality, homophobia is homophobia.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Oh it’s a threat. Someone doesn’t need to say, “or else,” for a threat to be communicated. Unsaid in the above interaction is:
“I know you. I’m watching you. I’m tracking your career. I know this will take years to bear fruit. I have the information needed to destroy your job in the future.”
None of that was said explicitly, but it was all communicated.
Amelie Wikström
But if she was going to do that, why would she warn her about it now? …Maybe it’s silly of me to expect people to be smart about their dumbass revenge schemes.
Throwatron
Because by doing it now, she hopefully destabilizes Joyce, and therefore keeps Joyce from ever making anything of herself. Like, she downgraded Dorothy’s entire life’s dream in one carefully-delivered sentence, with deliberate intent.
Because her view on the social ladder is exactly the same as Littlefinger from freaking Game of Thrones, anybody who has shown any ability to oppose her, or to keep any associations that are opposed to her sphere of influence, can be proactively dealt with by restricting them from climbing to higher rungs on the social ladder, in any way possible. If you give someone a mental breakdown, they start making dumb-ass decisions, and you don’t have to worry about them ever punching in your weight class, ever again.
Amelie Wikström
When you mention Dorothy, it is pretty funny picturing Raidah going around all smug like “muahaha I’m the best at manipulation, I ruined her life with one sentence” when Dorothy was deep in the process of reexamining her life goals before Raidah got involved. (Just like Joyce.)
Maybe her intervention even sped up the process and led directly to making that big front page kiss happening! Pity to be a social climber trying to climb over people who care more about building relationships with each other. They may not even realize the things you do to hurt them are supposed to hurt.
Elsewise
Eh, even if it’s not a threat, it’s still “haha, you’re going to be discriminated against and it will impact your job prospects!” So I’m comfortable calling Raidah homophobic for this even if she genuinely didn’t mean she’ll do anything about it.
AlexaSpuds
Raidah is the definition of performative woke because the moment she encounters even the slightest push of unpleasantness she goes out of her way to be bigoted instead of being mean in the literal hundreds of ways that exist.
thejeff
Well, other than not showing any actual signs of being woke.
Amelie Wikström
There is this theory the comments section fielded that she’s actually invested in freeing Bulmeria and had real reasons to be mad about the girls (and the paper’s reporting) derailing the protest, but yeah, I’m not sure what that is based on.
deliverything
I’ve a vague memory of her previously stating intentions to work in favour of social justice issues in her future legal career, but searching back through the strips, what little there is, aside from being buried in social climbing and pettiness, is likely to be primarily because she views it as part of her future career.
As an example: when she mentions Harrison being part of a team that struck down anti-trans laws in Indiana — https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/laws/ — that could be read as her approving of his helping people, but she could just as well be thinking about how the feat would enhance his future prospects… and context from other strips makes the latter seem more likely.
Note also the last three panels of the following strip.
To be fair, though: I’d rather have someone who works to better society for the sake of their own career than… well, people who worsen it for similar reasons (e.g. certain Greedy Old Politicians I’ll avoid naming).
Amelie Wikström
Far too many to name. But you’re right, of course. I have said in the past your reasons for helping people don’t matter, as much as it pains me to be (actually) fair to Raidah. . .
thejeff
Remember this is Raidah. It’s at least plausible that she’s talking up Harrison because Jacob idolizes him, regardless of what she thinks of trans people or those civil rights cases. Or partly as well in that case, to see how the fundie Joyce reacts to the mention of trans people.
Icalasari
Yeah, it’s like, Raidah isn’t exactly written to be likeable, but she has every reason to see Joyce as a selfish monster – Because every interaction with Joyce has involved Joyce either attempting to manipulate things her way, or seeming like she is manipulating things bigger than her to be about her
AlexaSpuds
REAL AND TRUE
Poewar
She only chose Elementary Education because she wanted to homeschool her kids. She’d be far from the first Freshman to change her major. Raidah is lobbing softballs.
wetmonstersmell
yeah Raidah thinks she’s being SO MEAN here but I think Joyce is mostly just (justifiably) kind of confused
Donovan
Ahaha holy shit
Donovan
Wow
Big Z
Good ol’ Raidah.
mommert
Jesus Christ
Rimwalker55
Every accusation a projection. Where have I heard that before?
Taffy
Hitler said that.
Clif
https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/adolf-hitler-quotes
Laura
Wow! ?
Some of those quotes seem to be finding new life as media talking points today…
Taffy
That guy had some fuckin’ problems.
Laura
Was it Goebbels?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror
Wiktionary, etc., appear to agree with you on that attribution.
Today I learned… ?
Ian Clark
I think Raidah might be more complicated than that. She seems to have a conscience, but she’s also very prone to rationalizing. Aside from her “Human cost” interaction with Dorothy, she definitely thinks that everything she’s doing is for everyone’s benefit, and that the fact that it’s to her benefit more than anyone else’s is just a fun little perk.
Actually, come to think of it, that last part describes pretty much anyone who’s good at rationalizing.
deliverything
I should’ve scrolled down before commenting. You said it better than I did.
PrognosticHannya
You know, Quasimodo predicted all this.
Amelie Wikström
I was thinking that too. “You only care about yourself” and “You have no shame” both sound more like things Raidah would say to a mirror than anything anyone who’s met Joyce would say.
Brendan of 6
I mean those are the things that have been said about Joyce frequently in the comment sections.
Amelie Wikström
By people who are taking Joyce having an unusually interesting day as revealing her fundamentally evil character? I can see the connection there. . .
Icalasari
In this case, it’s valid. Remember, the bulk of Raidah’s interactions with Joyce have been either Joyce turning Jacob against Raidah for her own purposes, or a photo that without deeper context seems like attempting to steal the limelight of the protest for herself. Even if Raidah wasn’t a manipulator, she’d probably say something similar to this to Joyce
Matticus
Oh, hey, pot! Name’s Kettle, have we met?
shadowcell
tragically, indiana is the only state there is, making this a devastating blow to joyce’s future
Charles Phipps
I’m not sure Joyce would survive New York. It’d be like HP Lovecraft moving there with his wife.
Astariel
She’d probably be okay in suburban New York. I had a gay kindergarten teacher here in 1987 and no one had a problem with it that I ever heard.
Astariel
As an additional plus, we have very few fundies.
Thecatcameback
I moved from the Deep Midwest to New York, and I gotta say, Joyce would be fine. Parts of upstate New York are more aggressively rural American than places in the Midwest. Also, if Joyce wants to be an elementary school teacher in Indiana, she can do it, there are plenty of liberal pockets. I worked as an openly lesbian educator in the Midwest for four years recently and nobody ever stopped me in a way that mattered. Had to have some talks with some kids about not using “gay” as an insult, and explain to another teacher that my being a gay person wasn’t “inappropriate for children,” also got shamed by another lesbian faculty member for being too openly gay (I mentioned that I have a partner who is a woman in front of the kids), but overall, the vast majority of people and kids were completely and entirely chill. A lot even learned something about gay people being normal. Fuck Raidah.
RassilonTDavros
I mean if fiction follows reality long-term, she might end up in Ohio.
Bittersweet
My child tells me that this is a terrible fate to befall someone. I don’t know what Ohio did to the 7 year olds of the world, but she feels very strongly about it.
Thallone
I have read a lot of threads with Ohioans and mthey seem to share the sen timent though
espanolbot
My significant other’s from Cinci, and they say that the reason why so many astronauts and pilots come from Ohio is because they want to get as far away from it as possible.
Skorpeyon
Am an Ohioan, can confirm. Ohio is not much better than Indiana, tbh, at least the rural parts I’m from.
Rachel McCall
For once the kids are right
Pappenheimer
Plenty of good folks in OH but the state’s been gerrymandered from purple to arterial red, allowing well-documented one-party corruption to flourish. It’s now, like neighboring WV, a good state to be from. Dunno what they’ve done to 7 year olds in particular but public school funding’s been cut in favor of vouchers for private schools and charter schools. Ice cream’s still legal, though.
Rose by Any other Name
This.
The entire north east of Ohio, like from Columbus to Cleveland, has an extremely high LGBT+ population and lots of very liberal people – and we’re surrounded on all sides, our voting districts turned into insane gigsaw puzzles specifically to make certain that none of our votes count for shit.
Allandrel
Ohioan here. Can confirm.
GreyICE
I wouldn’t wish Ohio on my worst enemy.
eh, whatever
“It’s all Ohio?”
“Always has been”
Whirlakitty
Since she won’t be graduating until like, 2065 at the earliest, I’m really hopeful we won’t have such horrific attitudes by then.
Elsewise
She’d probably be fine in lots of places! But to do that, she’d have to accept that the state she’s lived in her whole life so far isn’t the place she WILL live in her whole life, which seems like it might be tough for Joyce in particular.
DailyBrad
Guys, I’m beginning to think Raidah’s not a great person.
Jay
She’s the literal 2nd worst. Such an egotistical bitch
Harry Brownhole
Shes not wrong though
AlexanderHammil
i mean, technically she is wrong, indiana does have laws against discrimination against gay people, particularly state employees. she couldn’t get a job at a private or christian school, maybe, but she could still be an elementary school teacher.
Li
I envy your naive belief that discrimination being illegal means it can’t happen.
Any state with “at-will” employment (aka Right to Work states) means any employer can terminate you at any time without a reason, so they just don’t write “because she has a girlfriend” on the paperwork and fire Joyce anyway.
gnomedeplume
not being wrong doesn’t make you not a piece of shit
Ray Radlein
Yes she is. She’s a complete piece of shit, and wrong.
Minivet
In projecting that this particular goal might be a problem for her in many years, she’s technically right.
She’s wrong in:
– Assuming Joyce cares deeply about elementary education as a career
– Assuming Joyce cares deeply about staying in Indiana (heck, she may will be fine in
– Acting like that’s a reasonable thing for Joyce to self-limit on practically – love often changes your perspective and plans
– Acting like this is some kind of moral defect on Joyce’s part – “how dare you limit yourself based on how future homophobes might retaliate against you!”
She’s also tendentious in assuming Indiana will be at least as homophobic in public policy terms in four years.