Fuckface is more like an amplifier for pre-existing powers.
Clif
Never underestimate the limitless power of pseudoscience.
Wagstaff
That’s tantamount to assuming away the question on whether or not psychic powers exist at all.
Clif
If you can recall what happened yesterday, is that not a feat accomplished by your psyche? And if so, is it not a psychic power?
QuixoticMaunster
Imagination? Also a psychic power. I’m all about this definition.
milu
counterfactual narratives?? pseudoscience!!! Willis is an absolute quack. i am skeptical any of these “characters” (charlatanese for spirits) have any basis in fact.
Wagstaff
Oh believe me, I WISH Joyce and Walky had psychic powers. They could use them to blind Ruth’s grandfather, like that guy from Stephen King’s Firestarter.
Oberon
A particularly poor psychic ability, given that much of what you “remember” about yesterday is completely invented by you.
Well, yes, but this particular group we’ve seen consists of one known antagonist (Raidah,) the mob heir we’ve all been worried about who’s definitely not as out of the mob as he claims, so even if he’s not on board with the mob stuff he’s definitely still dangerous by proxy (Asher,) someone who’s not inclined to have good feelings towards Sarah (Carl, who was a friend of Dana’s,) and Jennifer. Who’s not as Totally Okay and Normal as she claims, and we know this because she’s done this whole reinvention thing before AND she’s using it to try and shove her bisexuality back in the Neglected Box of Social Nonconformity (which is, of course, in the closet.)
So we’ve got a known antagonist who was planning revenge immediately pre-kidnapping and timeskip, a potential VILLAIN who, even if he’s sincere, is still a narrative timebomb, and a dude who we know nothing about but that he’d likely follow Raidah’s lead if she connects Sal to Joyce and decides to start that revenge here. (Especially if she picks up on Sal’s Jealous of the Hot Boyfriend Vibes.)
StClair
excellent summary.
DudeMyDadOwnsaDealership
Beware of being surrounded by fake people upon the first sign of trouble. That I agree on.
Whether Raidah hooked up with this group with an ulterior motive in mind is a 60-against 40-for kind of thing. She’s an awful, elitist, manipulative neurotic with control issues that make Linda Walkerton look like one of Tommy Chong’s characters. Her priorities seem to be hiding who she really is better and carrying on about how everyone else is in the wrong unlike an upright citizen like herself. People who live in glass houses who throw stones openly tend to end up homeless pretty quick. Carl and Asher may be all that’s left of her crowd that she didn’t cut ties or burn bridges with at the moment.
Asher, well, there’s a proven fair weather friend. Regardless of where he stands on the matter himself, I doubt Blaine is the only member of his grandfather’s mob who knows which button to push to get his cooperation in something quick the rest of his friends are going to suffer for by association because he had no other choice. Raidah and Carl can suck it, buuuut…
Sal and Ms. Billingsworth were never close personally, but she’s been part of their circle long enough for Sal to care about her well-being.
Asher’s one thing. Billie’s just falling for someone who represents the idea of ‘man’ until shit gets real again just like Sal still is…But the rest of the crowd paints a troubling pattern….This isn’t going to end well.
Regalli
Oh, I don’t think Raidah is interested in Jennifer to get revenge on Joyce. Pretty sure that’s at least mostly coincidence and proximity, and she just happens to be one of Asher’s friends.
I do, however, think she’s 500% willing to CAPITALIZE on Jennifer and Sal being friends of Joyce/one of Joyce’s immediate neighbors.
Raidah is dating Carl now. At least until Jacob comes to his senses.
Sirksome
No offense to Carl, I don’t know shit about him really, but going from Jacob to him is such a downgrade. I guess the plus would be Carl probably puts out. But I’d take cuddling with Jacob over banging Carl any day. Sorry Carl. Maybe you’re cool but I ain’t impressed, not yet.
Demoted Oblivious
It doesn’t seem appropriate to rank a character on nothing but superficial/physical attributes. Even *Raidah* seemed to like Jacob at least as much for his potential as a high earning, law-practitioner. Carl is background at the moment. Until such time as we may observe his behaviour, there won’t be much to know of his quality as a person.
Sirksome
Oh it definitely inappropriate. I find it interesting I’m getting called out on this for Carl though when I’ve done the same for Joe, Jacob, Ethan, and most recently Asher, especially since the girls used to get this treatment to an irritating degree and it still happens on occassion.
But I will make a sincere effort to no longer objectify the characters from now on if it upsets you or anyone else. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Demoted Oblivious
Oh no need to stop. I apparently just felt like commenting on it today. I know I’m very susceptible to doing it as well. Hell, entertainment costumers and make-up artists have careers built upon people judging others based on appearance.[1] Maybe for me it was just because Carl is such a complete unknown that it struck more. That and my own self-consciousness about doing it *despite* knowing that I do it, and still not being able to shake the influence of it.
[1] Yes costumers and make-up do more than just set tone, but it plays heavily in their sandbox.
Segnosaur
Well, apart from physical appearances… We know Jacob is an intelligent, thoughtful person. Carl on the other hand was quite oblivious to the problems facing Sarah’ and her then roomate, and seemed to have done nothing to help either. Not much to go on, but still not a good sign.
milu
yeah but maybe he’s very good at, like, origami. that’s hot right
Kagimizu
Independent of any issues regarding Joyce and Jacob, I’m pretty sure Jacob is legitimately better off without Raidah. She was pressuring him to become a lawyer that could live up to “his brother’s” (really her) expectations and build a successful life (for her), without regards for Jacob’s own happiness, insecurities, or desires.
Segnosaur
Overall, Raidah is probably not a good person overall, and jacob would be better off without her…
– she seemed to be… Manipulative of jacob
-she was condescending to both Dina and Joyce
– she was dismissive to the problems Sarah was having, when her roomate started to go off the rails
Overall she seems a vit on the arrogant side.
Demoted Oblivious
Agreed with both you and Kagimizu. To go a step further, most people would be better off without a mean, judgemental, arrogant source of conflict in their lives.
He’s mobbed up, she’s a law student, maybe she vying for the position of consili…consquigly…Tom Hagen.
Sirksome
I don’t think it runs that deep…yet. Raidah just doesn’t come off as that great a person. Putting aside the love triangle bullshit with Joyce and Jacob which I actually think she was a victim in. Raidah kind of just assumed Dina was mentally challenged when first meeting her while her two “friends” openly mocked her. Then she proceeded to talk down to her very condescendingly in order to drag because of their own personal beef. Then her friend called Dina “retarded”. Even though Raidah reprimanded her for that, none of that has ever been addressed!
It’s been months! They’ve been in the same area. She never even tried to apologize for this. Not that I’ve seen. If anyone knows a strip where Raidah has apologized to Dina I’ll gladly be proven wrong. Until then Raidah kind of sucks.
Regalli
Raidah was definitely the wronged party in the Joyce-Jacob debacle. To her credit, she DID call her friend on the r-slur (‘Oh right, we’re in public.’ ‘Oh right, we’re in the universe.’) At the same time, her willingness to call the friend on the active slur while showing no qualms about calling Dina ‘mentally challenged’ to her face shows that she holds the exact same ableist attitude, she’s just ‘polite’ about it. (As Dina so excellently put it, ‘she was not kind to me, though I imagine she thought she was.’ https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/eavesdrop/ )
Also, while she was doing it in no small part to get a dig in at Joyce, who she correctly called as Into Jacob, the part where she indicates teaching’s a less worthy job than law solely because it pays less (‘and we can’t all live glamorous lives’) doesn’t exactly reflect well on her, either. Plenty of outlets to point out Joyce’s immaturity and perceived unsuitability without going for the classism. (And said classism deeeefinitely underlies some of her other actions, though I don’t feel like doing a breakdown at the moment.)
Spencer
Raidah’s ableism towards Dina is kinda hard for me to talk about.
‘Cause like, of course it’s wrong, but it’s the kind of wrong that gets routinely indulged to the point where it’s just a passive white noise, and it’s the kind of wrong the rest of the cast indulged in directly in Dina’s face when they found out Becky was hitting on her.
This probably ties back into something I talked about a while back, where depicting problematic thoughts in discourse in otherwise sympathetic characters creates a weird vibe, because we’ve been exposed to deliberate malice for so long in a day and age where it’s easier than ever to know about a work of fiction’s creator that it can become clear whether they are writing a harsh reality or indulging their own worst traits in their work.
Regalli
The difference to me is that most of the cast knocked it off when Dina called them out on it and apologized. But yeah, ableism is insidious, and it has definitely popped up on occasion since among the sympathetic cast. (Dina and Sarah’s one-on-one interactions sometimes include an element of Sarah calling some particular quirk of Dina’s weird, for instance. People were also surprised towards her birthday to realize she was turning nineteen and thus on the older end of the cast, but as someone who was mistaken for a high school student by random strangers well into my twenties, I’m willing to read that potentially as ‘Dina looks young’ – an established trait, even ignoring her habits and dress – and not necessarily infantilizing her. And it’s notable that it’s been a while since Sarah remarked on one of Dina’s habits. I like to think she’s learning.) Maybe Raidah would apologize when called on it herself. Maybe not. But given it’s an occasion Dina has actively said ‘I did not appreciate this’ and she later called out the same behavior in the main cast, it’s definitely meant to be portrayed negatively in both those instances.
As opposed to, say, characters teasing Joyce about her limited palate, where sometimes she seems okay with it with trusted people but there’s also clearly some insecurity there knowing it’s a ‘childish’ eating habit. That one seems to be in part Willis poking fun at his own limited diet while also acknowledging ‘yeah this is unusual for an adult.’ I’m not gonna psychoanalyze further.
Needfuldoer
Dina definitely reads young. Remember back on Freshman Family Weekend, when Riley was surprised that she wasn’t her peer?
re: Dina and Sarah’s interactions: I wish someone told me “no, stop that, that’s weird” a lot sooner. It would’ve saved me a lot of ostracization and retroactive embarrassment…
BBCC
I was recently mistaken for an 8th grader by a friend of my mother.
I am 25 years old. This is not the first time either (first time, I was 22 or close enough).
Wagstaff
Being on guard against insidious infantilization doesn’t mean we have to put away all childish things. We’re the sum of all our experiences — experiences in our childhood, our adolescence and our adulthood. There’s nothing unhealthy about fondly revisiting the games, books, TV and films we enjoyed in our childhood. Growing up isn’t about giving up our past, but expanding on it, being stretched and enriched by experience.
There’s nothing unhealthy about enjoying child-like affection and playfulness in our adult relationships. The problem arises when the relationship operates coercively on that child-like level.
Becoming aware of the subtle slippery elements of that coercion and recognizing the difference between care and confinement are the first steps in breaking free of insidious infantilization.
How all the characters here will do that will be quite the sight to behold…..
thejeff
The other difference though is that Raidah did it on first contact when Dina was behaving decidedly oddly. Immediately after finding out she wasn’t a little kid, which is apparently a common first impression from both looks and behavior.
The others did so despite much more exposure and despite knowing that Dina was their age and capable of functioning as a fellow student. Raidah’s behavior was worse, but the others had much more reason to know better.
Plain Marie
I’ve also been mistaken for my tall littlest sister’s younger sibling. I was even mistaken for a high-schooler outside my own college’s student center.
“Do you want to go here someday?”
“…I’m a Junior…”
“Oh? What high school?”
“…Uh…here…”
*sigh* I just don’t exude emotional sophistication, I guess.
RassilonTDavros
And then there was that time that Jenniferused the r-slur way back in 2010, though at that point it may have just been a product of past Willis not realizing how bad it was.
Norah
I don’t think Raidah ever apologized to Dina. I don’t even think she realized how wrong her ableist attitude and actions were. She probably thinks she’s okay because she didn’t use the “r” word and reprimanded her friend for doing so. Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it.
Sirksome
Honestly part of me thinks Raidah still believes Dina is mentally challenged. They’ve never interacted after that despite Dina once standing directly behind her.
Rabid Rabbit
We definitely haven’t seen Raidah apologize to Dina, but then, the only time we’ve seen them in close proximity after that incident is when Dina was stalking her and Jacob. Likewise, as Regalli says, most people knocked off the condescending to Dina after being called on it — but they had to be called on it, and they were mostly good people. If Dorothy had to have it pointed out to her, why would Raidah, on the basis of one encounter, realize she ought to apologize?
Which is not to say that she doesn’t have issues, including the classism Regalli points to. Though the classism has its own interesting avenues for explorations, since one can see how a brown Muslim woman living in what I understand is a pretty Christian part of the US would come to that. And her condescension to Dina is itself complicated, because after all, don’t we want people to be understanding of those with mental disabilities? If Dina did have the sort of issue Raidah assumed, would we judge her as harshly? (Please bear in mind that I’m deeply ignorant on these issues, so I may be being as appalling as she was. If so, my apologies.)
Which is not to say that the whole incident reflects well on her. And it does (along with other things) sort of call into question to what extent her admiration for Jacob’s brother’s fighting for trans rights is about trans people as opposed to about how admirable the fight is.
Sirksome
Nah. I get what you’re saying but you never condescend to amyone except maybe the very youngest of children (I’m talking like age 5 and under) because they literally don’t understsnd certain concepts. Just because someone is incapable of atriculating thought as fluidly or it takes more time doesn’t mean you don’t treat them with respect, because you never actually know what they’re thinking or truly understand.
There’s slso a significant difference in behavior between the cast being drunk assholes with stupid assumptions of Dina at that party and what Raidah did, which they were indeed called out on almost immediately and apologized and changed.
It’s been months in comic and Raidah hasn’t done shit. Probably having completely forgotten the incident. That makes either ignorant or uncaring. Which is better?
Regalli
First paragraph: Totally agreed. I do, in fact, read Dina as autistic (which a lot of people would call ‘mentally challenged’, because we don’t understand a lot of social concepts innately) and I would be irritated at POLITEST if someone said that about me to my face. Even if you know someone has an intellectual disability, you shouldn’t treat them as completely incapable and you shouldn’t say insulting things in front of them assuming they can’t hear or understand. You can accommodate someone while treating them like a human being entitled to basic respect.
That entire interaction says, at my most charitable, that Raidah had no idea whatsoever how to talk to disabled people. (Protip: do not crouch down while talking to a disabled person. Just, don’t. Doesn’t matter the variety of disability, if you wouldn’t do it to an able-bodied neurotypical person that age, don’t do it to the disabled person.) Not being my most charitable, I’d assume she doesn’t care to learn.
C.T. Phipps
She’ll be disappointed because I’m hoping Asher is sticking off the mob.
Then again, like Michael Corleone, he did go back to the family for a murder and I’m not sure that’s a thing you get a freebie on.
powerpowerpow
Consigliere. I have no clue why there’s a silent G in there, either.
milu
in italian “gl” as in “famiglia” is sort of a “wet” L. or technically, a voiced palatal lateral approximant (as opposed to the regular L, being alveolar). It’s produced, as best as this non-native italian speaker can tell, by flattening the tongue so that the sides, rather than the tip, touch the palate. It can be approximated as a “y”-type sound with just a bit more friction.
or you can just pronounce it as your regular L and everyone will understand you fine
eh, whatever
The middle, not the sides; the sides are where the approximation happens.
milu
ah thanks should’ve refreshed before posting my correction to my own comment :facepalm:
milu
it’s weird cos i was doing it right, just “reading” it wrong, in sensory terms. i love phonology but i’m so bad at the part where i have to figure out what my mouthparts are doing^^
milu
for those into that sort of thing, you can see what the inside of people’s bodies looks like while pronouncing these sounds here or there. perverts
(i’m jk those are perfectly SFW MRI videos of what the inside of your mouth looks like while pronouncing various sounds, i think it’s fascinating and helpful, and wow, tongues are AMAZING organs. no innuendo intended, although, that too)
also i was wrong the “lateral” is not about how the sides of the tongue touch the palate but how the airflow goes over the sides, it’s always the center of the tongue that gets smooshed up onto the palate, but in “L” it’s the tip against the top teeth, whereas in “gl” the smooshing happens further back
eh, whatever
It’s not silent; gl is pronounced like… well… a L with the middle of your tongue against the roof of the mouth. Much like “ly”, but both at the same time, not as a sequence. Same as Portuguese lh, Catalan and very conservative Spanish ll, very conservative Hungarian ly, and Latvian ļ if that helps.
Likewise gn, the same as French gn, Spanish ñ, Portuguese and Vietnamese nh, Catalan and Hungarian ny, Latvian ņ.
milu
lol! well that should unconfuse any of you Hungarians and conservative Spaniards out there ^^
seriously though you have some knowledge of all of these languages? and more i assume? or you’re just into phonologies for the acrobatic fun of hacking your articulators? impressive regardless =)
178 thoughts on “Bumped”
Ana Chronistic
Walky learning to harness Joyce’s psychic abilities
Wagstaff
That’s funny. He didn’t even touch Fuckface.
What am I saying??!?! Psychic powers totally pseudoscience!!!!
Doctor_Who
Fuckface is more like an amplifier for pre-existing powers.
Clif
Never underestimate the limitless power of pseudoscience.
Wagstaff
That’s tantamount to assuming away the question on whether or not psychic powers exist at all.
Clif
If you can recall what happened yesterday, is that not a feat accomplished by your psyche? And if so, is it not a psychic power?
QuixoticMaunster
Imagination? Also a psychic power. I’m all about this definition.
milu
counterfactual narratives?? pseudoscience!!! Willis is an absolute quack. i am skeptical any of these “characters” (charlatanese for spirits) have any basis in fact.
Wagstaff
Oh believe me, I WISH Joyce and Walky had psychic powers. They could use them to blind Ruth’s grandfather, like that guy from Stephen King’s Firestarter.
Oberon
A particularly poor psychic ability, given that much of what you “remember” about yesterday is completely invented by you.
plasticwrap
Great now I have the DucktTales theme stuck in my head.
BBCC
well, this’ll be interesting.
Regalli
Everyone in this hall is a drama bomb waiting to happen.
Excellent.
Clif
“hall” is a funny way to spell comic.
Regalli
Well, yes, but this particular group we’ve seen consists of one known antagonist (Raidah,) the mob heir we’ve all been worried about who’s definitely not as out of the mob as he claims, so even if he’s not on board with the mob stuff he’s definitely still dangerous by proxy (Asher,) someone who’s not inclined to have good feelings towards Sarah (Carl, who was a friend of Dana’s,) and Jennifer. Who’s not as Totally Okay and Normal as she claims, and we know this because she’s done this whole reinvention thing before AND she’s using it to try and shove her bisexuality back in the Neglected Box of Social Nonconformity (which is, of course, in the closet.)
So we’ve got a known antagonist who was planning revenge immediately pre-kidnapping and timeskip, a potential VILLAIN who, even if he’s sincere, is still a narrative timebomb, and a dude who we know nothing about but that he’d likely follow Raidah’s lead if she connects Sal to Joyce and decides to start that revenge here. (Especially if she picks up on Sal’s Jealous of the Hot Boyfriend Vibes.)
StClair
excellent summary.
DudeMyDadOwnsaDealership
Beware of being surrounded by fake people upon the first sign of trouble. That I agree on.
Whether Raidah hooked up with this group with an ulterior motive in mind is a 60-against 40-for kind of thing. She’s an awful, elitist, manipulative neurotic with control issues that make Linda Walkerton look like one of Tommy Chong’s characters. Her priorities seem to be hiding who she really is better and carrying on about how everyone else is in the wrong unlike an upright citizen like herself. People who live in glass houses who throw stones openly tend to end up homeless pretty quick. Carl and Asher may be all that’s left of her crowd that she didn’t cut ties or burn bridges with at the moment.
Asher, well, there’s a proven fair weather friend. Regardless of where he stands on the matter himself, I doubt Blaine is the only member of his grandfather’s mob who knows which button to push to get his cooperation in something quick the rest of his friends are going to suffer for by association because he had no other choice. Raidah and Carl can suck it, buuuut…
Sal and Ms. Billingsworth were never close personally, but she’s been part of their circle long enough for Sal to care about her well-being.
Asher’s one thing. Billie’s just falling for someone who represents the idea of ‘man’ until shit gets real again just like Sal still is…But the rest of the crowd paints a troubling pattern….This isn’t going to end well.
Regalli
Oh, I don’t think Raidah is interested in Jennifer to get revenge on Joyce. Pretty sure that’s at least mostly coincidence and proximity, and she just happens to be one of Asher’s friends.
I do, however, think she’s 500% willing to CAPITALIZE on Jennifer and Sal being friends of Joyce/one of Joyce’s immediate neighbors.
Reltzik
… doesn’t “waiting” imply that they aren’t drama bombing in the present?
Exarch
Oh wow they hang out with Raidah. This won’t get dramatic later at all
Segnosaur
I wonder if Raidah knows about Asher’s criminal background and his family’s ties to organized crime.
Sunny
She’s just getting in touch with a potential future client. Networking!
RassilonTDavros
Waitaminnit… Carl? As in, Dana’s boyfriend Carl?
…are we getting the return of Dana???
Spencer
Hey we got a timeskip.
Clif
Raidah is dating Carl now. At least until Jacob comes to his senses.
Sirksome
No offense to Carl, I don’t know shit about him really, but going from Jacob to him is such a downgrade. I guess the plus would be Carl probably puts out. But I’d take cuddling with Jacob over banging Carl any day. Sorry Carl. Maybe you’re cool but I ain’t impressed, not yet.
Demoted Oblivious
It doesn’t seem appropriate to rank a character on nothing but superficial/physical attributes. Even *Raidah* seemed to like Jacob at least as much for his potential as a high earning, law-practitioner. Carl is background at the moment. Until such time as we may observe his behaviour, there won’t be much to know of his quality as a person.
Sirksome
Oh it definitely inappropriate. I find it interesting I’m getting called out on this for Carl though when I’ve done the same for Joe, Jacob, Ethan, and most recently Asher, especially since the girls used to get this treatment to an irritating degree and it still happens on occassion.
But I will make a sincere effort to no longer objectify the characters from now on if it upsets you or anyone else. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Demoted Oblivious
Oh no need to stop. I apparently just felt like commenting on it today. I know I’m very susceptible to doing it as well. Hell, entertainment costumers and make-up artists have careers built upon people judging others based on appearance.[1] Maybe for me it was just because Carl is such a complete unknown that it struck more. That and my own self-consciousness about doing it *despite* knowing that I do it, and still not being able to shake the influence of it.
[1] Yes costumers and make-up do more than just set tone, but it plays heavily in their sandbox.
Segnosaur
Well, apart from physical appearances… We know Jacob is an intelligent, thoughtful person. Carl on the other hand was quite oblivious to the problems facing Sarah’ and her then roomate, and seemed to have done nothing to help either. Not much to go on, but still not a good sign.
milu
yeah but maybe he’s very good at, like, origami. that’s hot right
Kagimizu
Independent of any issues regarding Joyce and Jacob, I’m pretty sure Jacob is legitimately better off without Raidah. She was pressuring him to become a lawyer that could live up to “his brother’s” (really her) expectations and build a successful life (for her), without regards for Jacob’s own happiness, insecurities, or desires.
Segnosaur
Overall, Raidah is probably not a good person overall, and jacob would be better off without her…
– she seemed to be… Manipulative of jacob
-she was condescending to both Dina and Joyce
– she was dismissive to the problems Sarah was having, when her roomate started to go off the rails
Overall she seems a vit on the arrogant side.
Demoted Oblivious
Agreed with both you and Kagimizu. To go a step further, most people would be better off without a mean, judgemental, arrogant source of conflict in their lives.
milu
twitter: awww that hurts my feelings
Demoted Oblivious
Go on, take a bow!
DudeMyDadOwnsaDealership
“Until” Raidah wants to believe…
Thag Simmons
Can’t say I ever thought we’d see Carl again.
milu
can’t say i ever thought about Carl at all since August 21, 2012
Keulen
Definitely didn’t think I’d see him again, since I forgot he even existed.
Carla's #2 Fan
I only started reading last August or September (binging it all in 15 days) and I have already forgotten about him lol
Demoted Oblivious
“I have already forgotten about him,” says Carl’s, uh, #2 Fan. Ouch!
milu
Carl’s #1 fan is his mom. Even she barely remembers he exists, which is… wait a sec, who was I talking about? i’ve forgotten
Kitschensyngk
IT IS YOUR DESTINY
Clif
ALL IS PROCEEDING AS MIKE FORSAW.
Mr. Random
The siblings know.
You think they don’t?
They dooooooooooooooo.
DailyBrad
Oh, it’s Raidah. That’s… lovely.
Sirksome
Raidah being in Asher’s friend group says a lot. And it’s not that great.
Doctor_Who
He’s mobbed up, she’s a law student, maybe she vying for the position of consili…consquigly…Tom Hagen.
Sirksome
I don’t think it runs that deep…yet. Raidah just doesn’t come off as that great a person. Putting aside the love triangle bullshit with Joyce and Jacob which I actually think she was a victim in. Raidah kind of just assumed Dina was mentally challenged when first meeting her while her two “friends” openly mocked her. Then she proceeded to talk down to her very condescendingly in order to drag because of their own personal beef. Then her friend called Dina “retarded”. Even though Raidah reprimanded her for that, none of that has ever been addressed!
It’s been months! They’ve been in the same area. She never even tried to apologize for this. Not that I’ve seen. If anyone knows a strip where Raidah has apologized to Dina I’ll gladly be proven wrong. Until then Raidah kind of sucks.
Regalli
Raidah was definitely the wronged party in the Joyce-Jacob debacle. To her credit, she DID call her friend on the r-slur (‘Oh right, we’re in public.’ ‘Oh right, we’re in the universe.’) At the same time, her willingness to call the friend on the active slur while showing no qualms about calling Dina ‘mentally challenged’ to her face shows that she holds the exact same ableist attitude, she’s just ‘polite’ about it. (As Dina so excellently put it, ‘she was not kind to me, though I imagine she thought she was.’ https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/eavesdrop/ )
Also, while she was doing it in no small part to get a dig in at Joyce, who she correctly called as Into Jacob, the part where she indicates teaching’s a less worthy job than law solely because it pays less (‘and we can’t all live glamorous lives’) doesn’t exactly reflect well on her, either. Plenty of outlets to point out Joyce’s immaturity and perceived unsuitability without going for the classism. (And said classism deeeefinitely underlies some of her other actions, though I don’t feel like doing a breakdown at the moment.)
Spencer
Raidah’s ableism towards Dina is kinda hard for me to talk about.
‘Cause like, of course it’s wrong, but it’s the kind of wrong that gets routinely indulged to the point where it’s just a passive white noise, and it’s the kind of wrong the rest of the cast indulged in directly in Dina’s face when they found out Becky was hitting on her.
This probably ties back into something I talked about a while back, where depicting problematic thoughts in discourse in otherwise sympathetic characters creates a weird vibe, because we’ve been exposed to deliberate malice for so long in a day and age where it’s easier than ever to know about a work of fiction’s creator that it can become clear whether they are writing a harsh reality or indulging their own worst traits in their work.
Regalli
The difference to me is that most of the cast knocked it off when Dina called them out on it and apologized. But yeah, ableism is insidious, and it has definitely popped up on occasion since among the sympathetic cast. (Dina and Sarah’s one-on-one interactions sometimes include an element of Sarah calling some particular quirk of Dina’s weird, for instance. People were also surprised towards her birthday to realize she was turning nineteen and thus on the older end of the cast, but as someone who was mistaken for a high school student by random strangers well into my twenties, I’m willing to read that potentially as ‘Dina looks young’ – an established trait, even ignoring her habits and dress – and not necessarily infantilizing her. And it’s notable that it’s been a while since Sarah remarked on one of Dina’s habits. I like to think she’s learning.) Maybe Raidah would apologize when called on it herself. Maybe not. But given it’s an occasion Dina has actively said ‘I did not appreciate this’ and she later called out the same behavior in the main cast, it’s definitely meant to be portrayed negatively in both those instances.
As opposed to, say, characters teasing Joyce about her limited palate, where sometimes she seems okay with it with trusted people but there’s also clearly some insecurity there knowing it’s a ‘childish’ eating habit. That one seems to be in part Willis poking fun at his own limited diet while also acknowledging ‘yeah this is unusual for an adult.’ I’m not gonna psychoanalyze further.
Needfuldoer
Dina definitely reads young. Remember back on Freshman Family Weekend, when Riley was surprised that she wasn’t her peer?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/rapport/
re: Dina and Sarah’s interactions: I wish someone told me “no, stop that, that’s weird” a lot sooner. It would’ve saved me a lot of ostracization and retroactive embarrassment…
BBCC
I was recently mistaken for an 8th grader by a friend of my mother.
I am 25 years old. This is not the first time either (first time, I was 22 or close enough).
Wagstaff
Being on guard against insidious infantilization doesn’t mean we have to put away all childish things. We’re the sum of all our experiences — experiences in our childhood, our adolescence and our adulthood. There’s nothing unhealthy about fondly revisiting the games, books, TV and films we enjoyed in our childhood. Growing up isn’t about giving up our past, but expanding on it, being stretched and enriched by experience.
There’s nothing unhealthy about enjoying child-like affection and playfulness in our adult relationships. The problem arises when the relationship operates coercively on that child-like level.
Becoming aware of the subtle slippery elements of that coercion and recognizing the difference between care and confinement are the first steps in breaking free of insidious infantilization.
How all the characters here will do that will be quite the sight to behold…..
thejeff
The other difference though is that Raidah did it on first contact when Dina was behaving decidedly oddly. Immediately after finding out she wasn’t a little kid, which is apparently a common first impression from both looks and behavior.
The others did so despite much more exposure and despite knowing that Dina was their age and capable of functioning as a fellow student. Raidah’s behavior was worse, but the others had much more reason to know better.
Plain Marie
I’ve also been mistaken for my tall littlest sister’s younger sibling. I was even mistaken for a high-schooler outside my own college’s student center.
“Do you want to go here someday?”
“…I’m a Junior…”
“Oh? What high school?”
“…Uh…here…”
*sigh* I just don’t exude emotional sophistication, I guess.
RassilonTDavros
And then there was that time that Jennifer used the r-slur way back in 2010, though at that point it may have just been a product of past Willis not realizing how bad it was.
Norah
I don’t think Raidah ever apologized to Dina. I don’t even think she realized how wrong her ableist attitude and actions were. She probably thinks she’s okay because she didn’t use the “r” word and reprimanded her friend for doing so. Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it.
Sirksome
Honestly part of me thinks Raidah still believes Dina is mentally challenged. They’ve never interacted after that despite Dina once standing directly behind her.
Rabid Rabbit
We definitely haven’t seen Raidah apologize to Dina, but then, the only time we’ve seen them in close proximity after that incident is when Dina was stalking her and Jacob. Likewise, as Regalli says, most people knocked off the condescending to Dina after being called on it — but they had to be called on it, and they were mostly good people. If Dorothy had to have it pointed out to her, why would Raidah, on the basis of one encounter, realize she ought to apologize?
Which is not to say that she doesn’t have issues, including the classism Regalli points to. Though the classism has its own interesting avenues for explorations, since one can see how a brown Muslim woman living in what I understand is a pretty Christian part of the US would come to that. And her condescension to Dina is itself complicated, because after all, don’t we want people to be understanding of those with mental disabilities? If Dina did have the sort of issue Raidah assumed, would we judge her as harshly? (Please bear in mind that I’m deeply ignorant on these issues, so I may be being as appalling as she was. If so, my apologies.)
Which is not to say that the whole incident reflects well on her. And it does (along with other things) sort of call into question to what extent her admiration for Jacob’s brother’s fighting for trans rights is about trans people as opposed to about how admirable the fight is.
Sirksome
Nah. I get what you’re saying but you never condescend to amyone except maybe the very youngest of children (I’m talking like age 5 and under) because they literally don’t understsnd certain concepts. Just because someone is incapable of atriculating thought as fluidly or it takes more time doesn’t mean you don’t treat them with respect, because you never actually know what they’re thinking or truly understand.
There’s slso a significant difference in behavior between the cast being drunk assholes with stupid assumptions of Dina at that party and what Raidah did, which they were indeed called out on almost immediately and apologized and changed.
It’s been months in comic and Raidah hasn’t done shit. Probably having completely forgotten the incident. That makes either ignorant or uncaring. Which is better?
Regalli
First paragraph: Totally agreed. I do, in fact, read Dina as autistic (which a lot of people would call ‘mentally challenged’, because we don’t understand a lot of social concepts innately) and I would be irritated at POLITEST if someone said that about me to my face. Even if you know someone has an intellectual disability, you shouldn’t treat them as completely incapable and you shouldn’t say insulting things in front of them assuming they can’t hear or understand. You can accommodate someone while treating them like a human being entitled to basic respect.
That entire interaction says, at my most charitable, that Raidah had no idea whatsoever how to talk to disabled people. (Protip: do not crouch down while talking to a disabled person. Just, don’t. Doesn’t matter the variety of disability, if you wouldn’t do it to an able-bodied neurotypical person that age, don’t do it to the disabled person.) Not being my most charitable, I’d assume she doesn’t care to learn.
C.T. Phipps
She’ll be disappointed because I’m hoping Asher is sticking off the mob.
Then again, like Michael Corleone, he did go back to the family for a murder and I’m not sure that’s a thing you get a freebie on.
powerpowerpow
Consigliere. I have no clue why there’s a silent G in there, either.
milu
in italian “gl” as in “famiglia” is sort of a “wet” L. or technically, a voiced palatal lateral approximant (as opposed to the regular L, being alveolar). It’s produced, as best as this non-native italian speaker can tell, by flattening the tongue so that the sides, rather than the tip, touch the palate. It can be approximated as a “y”-type sound with just a bit more friction.
or you can just pronounce it as your regular L and everyone will understand you fine
eh, whatever
The middle, not the sides; the sides are where the approximation happens.
milu
ah thanks should’ve refreshed before posting my correction to my own comment :facepalm:
milu
it’s weird cos i was doing it right, just “reading” it wrong, in sensory terms. i love phonology but i’m so bad at the part where i have to figure out what my mouthparts are doing^^
milu
for those into that sort of thing, you can see what the inside of people’s bodies looks like while pronouncing these sounds here or there. perverts
(i’m jk those are perfectly SFW MRI videos of what the inside of your mouth looks like while pronouncing various sounds, i think it’s fascinating and helpful, and wow, tongues are AMAZING organs. no innuendo intended, although, that too)
also i was wrong the “lateral” is not about how the sides of the tongue touch the palate but how the airflow goes over the sides, it’s always the center of the tongue that gets smooshed up onto the palate, but in “L” it’s the tip against the top teeth, whereas in “gl” the smooshing happens further back
eh, whatever
It’s not silent; gl is pronounced like… well… a L with the middle of your tongue against the roof of the mouth. Much like “ly”, but both at the same time, not as a sequence. Same as Portuguese lh, Catalan and very conservative Spanish ll, very conservative Hungarian ly, and Latvian ļ if that helps.
Likewise gn, the same as French gn, Spanish ñ, Portuguese and Vietnamese nh, Catalan and Hungarian ny, Latvian ņ.
milu
lol! well that should unconfuse any of you Hungarians and conservative Spaniards out there ^^
seriously though you have some knowledge of all of these languages? and more i assume? or you’re just into phonologies for the acrobatic fun of hacking your articulators? impressive regardless =)
I am Nothing