I read it as a sincere immediate response, where Joe reacted dick-first, before even reality-checking what was happening.
Sarah knew him well enough to select for him an appropriate lie. And now he’ll have to figure out how on earth to dig himself out of it. Whoops!
We’ll find out for sure tomorrow.
TerribleTransit
Most of me thinks Joe realizes how absurd Sarah’s offer is, and is attempting to respond with an over-the-top reaction to show he’s joking. Unfortunately, he severely underestimated how believable his reaction would have been for Classic Joe — “having his clothes off before he even gets through the door” is a little bit beyond what I think even he’d do but not a lot.
On the other hand, though, his eyebrows seem genuine and his shirt-tug in the last panel seems a little more guilty than I’d expect for a joke not landing.
I’ve how its ok to do this shit to men, but if the same were said about women it would be shut shaming. He’s never cheated on anyone, always got affirmative consent, and immediately backed off with no pressure if the girl changed her mind. Yet despite doing all of that he’s treated like a sexual predator all the time.
It was limited access at most. He offered access to anyone who he suspected might be interested. If I recall correctly it had an rss feed.
It was a list that was intended to be shared, and shouldn’t be papered over as a whoopsie. It was creepy and sleazy. It would be both of those things even if he didn’t share it and didn’t tell anyone about it, but the fact that he did makes it significantly worse and earned him a bad reputation.
It was the act of a kid who’s considered barely old enough to buy scrstch off tickets. It was a ranking of hot chicks by score. Not that different from People magazine’s sexiest man alive bit they do each year. Once again, if it were women doing it they’d be praised for being empowered, or at least not vilified. It was stupid, but not evil or malicious. And it does not in ANY way justify him being treated as if he’s a sex offender.
Yeah no, Sarah doesn’t just hate him because he has sex with a lot of girls. She hates him because he (used to) constantly objectify every woman around him and basically looked at every girl on campus as a potential conquest. That’s not the same as just being promiscuous
Also when his list leaked, it functioned, however unintentionally, as a map to every girl on campus for sexual predators, and did in fact allow Ryan to get to Joyce, though Amber stopped him. Not really minor, I get why Sarah is not forgiving. I like Joe and I believe in him and Joyce, but he has a hard row to hoe with everyone else and it’s his own doing.
Jamie
Yup. This. Entirely.
JR
As I recall, Joe’s list leaked *after* Amber cut Ryan to ribbons. Then he gave out donuts, saved one for Joyce, and she told him about Ryan and how Amber got him for good.
Miri
Not quite. Ryan was mad at Joyce for scarring him with the glass/bottle she smashed in his face, and Amazigirl and Dorothy for blasting his picture and sharing what had happened, and used Joe’s list to track them down. He was going after them in a place they should have been safe (their dorms) with a knife – and if Amber hadn’t wedged a folder into the door, disarmed him, and sliced him up, Ryan would quite probably have murdered Dorothy, unless she could outrun and outhide him; and Joyce if she froze against an armed attacker violating a safe space and was unable to disarm him by e.g. throwing books at his arms until she blunt-force made him drop the knife; Sarah, if she didn’t have her bat to hand to fight back with… as he is a sexual predator too, ruling out SA as part of his plans would be short-sighted.
Amber is a small girl who looks slightly chubby; she went right up to him and got the element of surprise because she doesn’t look like an experienced, strong, agile, fast, viciously violent fighter who will not hesitate to turn a predator into a pile of meat ribbons with his own knife. If it hadn’t been for that aspect to her, that she hates about herself (when not channeled into Amazigirl, who has principles, apparently… I think she trusts Amazigirl to know when to stop and doesn’t trust herself to do so) – it is very likely that at least one of the girls would have been seriously injured or killed.
It isn’t Joe’s fault and he didn’t make them targets – but he did provide neat directions to where they were.
ESPECIALLY after having been kidnapped, tied up and thrown into a cellar by somebody who apparently didn’t want to hurt them – somebody who made her and Little Sister more vulnerable to someone who did wish them harm is going to need to work pretty hard to get off her ?-list.
thejeff
Amber didn’t completely have the element of surprise – Ryan thought she was Amazi-girl, so should have known she was dangerous, but he had a knife and thought that would make the difference.
thejeff
There’s no reason to think Ryan’s attacks and Joe’s list were connected at all.
Promiscuity with consent and respect AND open communication about intentions (like “just so you know, i’m not looking for a relationship”) is GREAT.
Objectifying women (or people in general, but let’s name the structural problem as it is) is BAD.
Maybe that’s because he didn’t always immediately back off with no pressure. I can think of at least once he didn’t stop sniffing around until Sarah screamed at him.
He also used to say things like a drunker version of Joyce might have a sex tape, along with saying he’d upgrade her from a four to a ten and that he’d fix her with his penis TO SARAH.
He’s doing better now but if he didn’t want to be treated like a predator, he shouldn’t have acted like one.
I feel like maybe people are forgetting how bad Joe was, cause it wasn’t just him having a healthy and active sex life. Roz is more that type of character. Joe was the guy saying “kiss” every time girls fought. This isn’t Sarah being mean. Joe earned all of this. I’m glad he’s trying to improve and I like where his growth is leading but he’s gonna have to hold some of these L’s too.
Devin
I couldn’t agree more.
anonymsly
Has JOYCE earned it though? Having her choices and life dictated by other people? If Joe is a mistake, and that’s still very much an if, he’sJoyce’s mistake to make.
Everyone in Joyce’s life seems to me to have a fundamental and unshakable lack of respect for her as a person.
BBCC
For sure, it’s up to her, but I also can’t fault an older sibling figure for telling him to fuck off without knowing what’s going on. I’m hoping she’ll be over it by the end of the conversation but that crack from Joe didn’t help.
thejeff
Yup. The “he’ll change for me” is exactly what the naive targets always say about the creeps trying to take advantage of them. It’s a predator tactic.
We know Joe’s serious, but Joyce saying it shouldn’t be enough to convince Sarah.
DashWallkick
If anything the fact that Joe says he *wants* to change for her might be the biggest flag for Sarah because they all say that. Sarah doesn’t see what we do — she doesn’t even see what Joyce does — so she’s right to be sketchy
Leorale
Agreed. The idea of “changing” somebody is the height of relationship naïvete. It’s very, very basic relationship advice to date people as they are. Don’t set your heart on changing big central things about them (such as whether monogamy/non-monogamy will be easy for them).
Bash
Not in the sense of doing something wrong, but she was terribly naive when she first arrived on campus. And the way she’s talking here makes it seem like she’s still that person. Her friends have always felt a need to take care of her and protect her, and initially she welcomed that role. She’s changing into a person who doesn’t need or want that kind of care anymore, but it may take some time for her friends to adjust. I understand that it’s not fair to Joyce and her friends seem shitty at the moment, but I don’t think all the blame lies with them.
Jamie
She also welcomed that kind of attention initially. Remember that, after the Ryan incident, the big moment during the morning after was that she was surrounded by a posse of protectors.
These are the same people who are dubious about this relationship. In exactly the same proportion that they were protective of Joyce.
Jamie
Whoops, doubled up on Bash saying “welcomed”. Sorry about that.
Aslan
Not just terribly naive, but also immediately determined to find a husband and obsessed with romance. Never mind the fact that Joe used their date to “corrupt” her and make her more sexually appealing to him
thejeff
Do you have to earn having people warn off sexual predators? Seems that should be the default.
Felian
Absolutely agreed.
Part of changing your ways is admitting and atoning for your mistakes.
He has hurt people and he needs to hold himself accountable for it.
If he does, he has my respect, for the change he’s making.
And so does anyone who’s not willing to forgive him and is still hurt. Just because a predator no longer is a predator does not negate the impact he had on others. Their feelings matter even more.
As noted, he kept a list of women by attractiveness. His reputation is well-earned. Sarah isn’t treating him like a predator, she’s treating him like someone who’s going to ultimately break Joyce’s heart. Not that it’s good that she’s making this decision for her, but she has a good reason to distrust him.
Well, he was very much about to cheat right here. And do you not recall the “Do” list? People have good reason for mistrusting him even though he’s grown a fair bit. And you can see that Sarah’s objection is that she thinks he’s horrible at exclusive relationships, which is what he’s supposedly in right now. This isn’t some gendered double standard thing.
It’s okay to do what exactly? What Sarah did? If this was centered around someone like Roz, and the guy’s friend tried to trick her into cheating, would that be slut shaming? I understand that it’s problematic, but if someone’s whole personality is having multiple sexual partners there’s bound to be concern if they start dating your somewhat naive friend.
Because he constantly harassed the women on campus and had to be yelled at to take no for an answer. Source: Sarah and Rachel
He also introduced himself to Sarah by saying he was going to fix Joyce with his dick. The problem with Joe’s past behavior wasn’t having sex, it was openly reducing women to objects and going on “conquests”. Don’t get me wrong I love him and he’s changed a lot but lets not whitewash his past and downplay the redemption part of his redemption arc
Honestly, Joe was never actually a predator but he sure smelled like one, so I don’t blame the women of IU for distrusting him. There was, for instance, the time he tried to pedantically hit on Rachel the instant she stepped outside her dorm room. She stayed pretty calm, but honestly if someone did that in real life I think it would be seen as downright scary.
Early series Joe honestly reminds me of a lot of cocky, strident young men I’ve known; they don’t actively mean harm but aren’t self-aware enough to even realize their actions can *cause* harm.
251 thoughts on “Philanderer”
Ana Chronistic
Joe: Come ON, it was a REFLEX!
Sarah: So’s this FIST in your FACE
clif
We haven’t heard from Joyce yet. Wait for it.
Quirdry Tawks
DAMMIT Joe…
Quirdry Tawks
Accidental flag. DAMMIT Me…
Maveric1984
You heard her, she said faaaaaaaaaaaaaace
Amós Batista
C’mon, Joe, you had one job.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Pretty sure he was mocking her. He and Sarah have never got along.
AbacusWizard
those eyebrows in panel 4 though
Leorale
I read it as a sincere immediate response, where Joe reacted dick-first, before even reality-checking what was happening.
Sarah knew him well enough to select for him an appropriate lie. And now he’ll have to figure out how on earth to dig himself out of it. Whoops!
We’ll find out for sure tomorrow.
TerribleTransit
Most of me thinks Joe realizes how absurd Sarah’s offer is, and is attempting to respond with an over-the-top reaction to show he’s joking. Unfortunately, he severely underestimated how believable his reaction would have been for Classic Joe — “having his clothes off before he even gets through the door” is a little bit beyond what I think even he’d do but not a lot.
On the other hand, though, his eyebrows seem genuine and his shirt-tug in the last panel seems a little more guilty than I’d expect for a joke not landing.
ValdVin
That’s Method.
Also Method: Remember your lines, and don’t bump into the furniture.
Big Z
Same. Especially since, given the exclamation points, Sarah and Joyce’s conversation has been likely loud enough to hear through the door.
Felian
Joe prefers jobs with hand or blow as a prefix.
Kazuma Taichi
what can he say, habits die hard
NGPZ
Damn I guess Sarah wants to take matters into her own hands, kinda off-putting to just throw out her friend’s boyfriend like that tho? 😮
True Survivor
Also sort of a jerk move to proposition him (even if “IT’S A TRAP!”)
Nono
Well it wouldn’t be the first time Joyce’s boyfriend has been ejected from her room.
Ana Chronistic
he wasn’t ejected then, he was fired
Sirksome
Maybe it’s just a reflex, like how you close your eyes when you sneeze.
True Survivor
He’s been Classically Conditioned.
(Get it? Cause he’s a dog.)
Felian
He’s a dog, he likes boning 😛
shadowcell
the torpedo is a devastating weapon against ships of all types
Needfuldoer
If you get your future self to bring you back some future quantum torpedoes, you can take out a Borg cube all by yourself in one hit.
Dara
whelp
i don’t even ship them, but
dang
Yotomoe
Sometimes the best laid ships are the ones you didn’t even know where being built.
yeah that metaphor makes sense.
Big
“You mean like a submarine which is all stealthy”
“I was going to go with Darth Maul’s “Scimitar” which has a cloaking field but let’s go with your”.
Nono
They WERE a fling in Roomies!.
Yotomoe
And she HAS flung him in DOA 😀
Bladeglory
Oh, I can help with this one, Joe! You have to add /s at the end of your message.
…oh wait. She slammed the door before the end of it. Nevermind.
Amós Batista
Joe just forget to say “Kappa” at the end.
(it’s from Twitch)
AbacusWizard
“… jk … unless … ?”
Wraithy2773
…wow, that’s a hell of a Natural 1 roll there, Joe.
Cholma
It’s like his heart isn’t even *in* the game!
Mym
Ahhh, finally, balance is restored
Sirksome
I guess for once we can say he really JOE’d it up this time! He and Danny really have switched places.
MisterJinKC
I’ve how its ok to do this shit to men, but if the same were said about women it would be shut shaming. He’s never cheated on anyone, always got affirmative consent, and immediately backed off with no pressure if the girl changed her mind. Yet despite doing all of that he’s treated like a sexual predator all the time.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Agreed. At the same time, he was careless with publishing his private list in an unintentionally public manner.
Devin
It was limited access at most. He offered access to anyone who he suspected might be interested. If I recall correctly it had an rss feed.
It was a list that was intended to be shared, and shouldn’t be papered over as a whoopsie. It was creepy and sleazy. It would be both of those things even if he didn’t share it and didn’t tell anyone about it, but the fact that he did makes it significantly worse and earned him a bad reputation.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Solidly said. Thanks for the correction.
MisterJinKC
It was the act of a kid who’s considered barely old enough to buy scrstch off tickets. It was a ranking of hot chicks by score. Not that different from People magazine’s sexiest man alive bit they do each year. Once again, if it were women doing it they’d be praised for being empowered, or at least not vilified. It was stupid, but not evil or malicious. And it does not in ANY way justify him being treated as if he’s a sex offender.
Erica
Yeah no, Sarah doesn’t just hate him because he has sex with a lot of girls. She hates him because he (used to) constantly objectify every woman around him and basically looked at every girl on campus as a potential conquest. That’s not the same as just being promiscuous
pope suburban
Also when his list leaked, it functioned, however unintentionally, as a map to every girl on campus for sexual predators, and did in fact allow Ryan to get to Joyce, though Amber stopped him. Not really minor, I get why Sarah is not forgiving. I like Joe and I believe in him and Joyce, but he has a hard row to hoe with everyone else and it’s his own doing.
Jamie
Yup. This. Entirely.
JR
As I recall, Joe’s list leaked *after* Amber cut Ryan to ribbons. Then he gave out donuts, saved one for Joyce, and she told him about Ryan and how Amber got him for good.
Miri
Not quite. Ryan was mad at Joyce for scarring him with the glass/bottle she smashed in his face, and Amazigirl and Dorothy for blasting his picture and sharing what had happened, and used Joe’s list to track them down. He was going after them in a place they should have been safe (their dorms) with a knife – and if Amber hadn’t wedged a folder into the door, disarmed him, and sliced him up, Ryan would quite probably have murdered Dorothy, unless she could outrun and outhide him; and Joyce if she froze against an armed attacker violating a safe space and was unable to disarm him by e.g. throwing books at his arms until she blunt-force made him drop the knife; Sarah, if she didn’t have her bat to hand to fight back with… as he is a sexual predator too, ruling out SA as part of his plans would be short-sighted.
Amber is a small girl who looks slightly chubby; she went right up to him and got the element of surprise because she doesn’t look like an experienced, strong, agile, fast, viciously violent fighter who will not hesitate to turn a predator into a pile of meat ribbons with his own knife. If it hadn’t been for that aspect to her, that she hates about herself (when not channeled into Amazigirl, who has principles, apparently… I think she trusts Amazigirl to know when to stop and doesn’t trust herself to do so) – it is very likely that at least one of the girls would have been seriously injured or killed.
It isn’t Joe’s fault and he didn’t make them targets – but he did provide neat directions to where they were.
ESPECIALLY after having been kidnapped, tied up and thrown into a cellar by somebody who apparently didn’t want to hurt them – somebody who made her and Little Sister more vulnerable to someone who did wish them harm is going to need to work pretty hard to get off her ?-list.
thejeff
Amber didn’t completely have the element of surprise – Ryan thought she was Amazi-girl, so should have known she was dangerous, but he had a knife and thought that would make the difference.
thejeff
There’s no reason to think Ryan’s attacks and Joe’s list were connected at all.
He recognized Dorothy and followed her back.
Felian
Exactly this!
Promiscuity with consent and respect AND open communication about intentions (like “just so you know, i’m not looking for a relationship”) is GREAT.
Objectifying women (or people in general, but let’s name the structural problem as it is) is BAD.
BBCC
Maybe that’s because he didn’t always immediately back off with no pressure. I can think of at least once he didn’t stop sniffing around until Sarah screamed at him.
He also used to say things like a drunker version of Joyce might have a sex tape, along with saying he’d upgrade her from a four to a ten and that he’d fix her with his penis TO SARAH.
He’s doing better now but if he didn’t want to be treated like a predator, he shouldn’t have acted like one.
Erica
He certainly has grown a lot over the last 10 years hasn’t he?
Sirksome
I feel like maybe people are forgetting how bad Joe was, cause it wasn’t just him having a healthy and active sex life. Roz is more that type of character. Joe was the guy saying “kiss” every time girls fought. This isn’t Sarah being mean. Joe earned all of this. I’m glad he’s trying to improve and I like where his growth is leading but he’s gonna have to hold some of these L’s too.
Devin
I couldn’t agree more.
anonymsly
Has JOYCE earned it though? Having her choices and life dictated by other people? If Joe is a mistake, and that’s still very much an if, he’sJoyce’s mistake to make.
Everyone in Joyce’s life seems to me to have a fundamental and unshakable lack of respect for her as a person.
BBCC
For sure, it’s up to her, but I also can’t fault an older sibling figure for telling him to fuck off without knowing what’s going on. I’m hoping she’ll be over it by the end of the conversation but that crack from Joe didn’t help.
thejeff
Yup. The “he’ll change for me” is exactly what the naive targets always say about the creeps trying to take advantage of them. It’s a predator tactic.
We know Joe’s serious, but Joyce saying it shouldn’t be enough to convince Sarah.
DashWallkick
If anything the fact that Joe says he *wants* to change for her might be the biggest flag for Sarah because they all say that. Sarah doesn’t see what we do — she doesn’t even see what Joyce does — so she’s right to be sketchy
Leorale
Agreed. The idea of “changing” somebody is the height of relationship naïvete. It’s very, very basic relationship advice to date people as they are. Don’t set your heart on changing big central things about them (such as whether monogamy/non-monogamy will be easy for them).
Bash
Not in the sense of doing something wrong, but she was terribly naive when she first arrived on campus. And the way she’s talking here makes it seem like she’s still that person. Her friends have always felt a need to take care of her and protect her, and initially she welcomed that role. She’s changing into a person who doesn’t need or want that kind of care anymore, but it may take some time for her friends to adjust. I understand that it’s not fair to Joyce and her friends seem shitty at the moment, but I don’t think all the blame lies with them.
Jamie
She also welcomed that kind of attention initially. Remember that, after the Ryan incident, the big moment during the morning after was that she was surrounded by a posse of protectors.
These are the same people who are dubious about this relationship. In exactly the same proportion that they were protective of Joyce.
Jamie
Whoops, doubled up on Bash saying “welcomed”. Sorry about that.
Aslan
Not just terribly naive, but also immediately determined to find a husband and obsessed with romance. Never mind the fact that Joe used their date to “corrupt” her and make her more sexually appealing to him
thejeff
Do you have to earn having people warn off sexual predators? Seems that should be the default.
Felian
Absolutely agreed.
Part of changing your ways is admitting and atoning for your mistakes.
He has hurt people and he needs to hold himself accountable for it.
If he does, he has my respect, for the change he’s making.
And so does anyone who’s not willing to forgive him and is still hurt. Just because a predator no longer is a predator does not negate the impact he had on others. Their feelings matter even more.
Cukie
As noted, he kept a list of women by attractiveness. His reputation is well-earned. Sarah isn’t treating him like a predator, she’s treating him like someone who’s going to ultimately break Joyce’s heart. Not that it’s good that she’s making this decision for her, but she has a good reason to distrust him.
Meleph's Cap
Well, he was very much about to cheat right here. And do you not recall the “Do” list? People have good reason for mistrusting him even though he’s grown a fair bit. And you can see that Sarah’s objection is that she thinks he’s horrible at exclusive relationships, which is what he’s supposedly in right now. This isn’t some gendered double standard thing.
Taffy
“Very much about to cheat” yeah okay
S.R.
I mean, this could very well be sarcasm.
Bash
It’s okay to do what exactly? What Sarah did? If this was centered around someone like Roz, and the guy’s friend tried to trick her into cheating, would that be slut shaming? I understand that it’s problematic, but if someone’s whole personality is having multiple sexual partners there’s bound to be concern if they start dating your somewhat naive friend.
zee
Because he constantly harassed the women on campus and had to be yelled at to take no for an answer. Source: Sarah and Rachel
He also introduced himself to Sarah by saying he was going to fix Joyce with his dick. The problem with Joe’s past behavior wasn’t having sex, it was openly reducing women to objects and going on “conquests”. Don’t get me wrong I love him and he’s changed a lot but lets not whitewash his past and downplay the redemption part of his redemption arc
Dday
Honestly, Joe was never actually a predator but he sure smelled like one, so I don’t blame the women of IU for distrusting him. There was, for instance, the time he tried to pedantically hit on Rachel the instant she stepped outside her dorm room. She stayed pretty calm, but honestly if someone did that in real life I think it would be seen as downright scary.
Early series Joe honestly reminds me of a lot of cocky, strident young men I’ve known; they don’t actively mean harm but aren’t self-aware enough to even realize their actions can *cause* harm.
Dday
well shit I wrote the word “honestly” 3 times, bad form
Axel
I love his cartoon face in that second to last panel
Kyrik Michalowski