I’m half-convinced that only having Standard Time when it means it’ll be dark by six is a deliberate attempt to keep people from realizing how much Daylight Time actually sucks in general. I’m in favor of just letting times be what they are, dammit
Really, though, I just hate the change itself more than anything. I have to take my anti-depression meds at the same time every night before bed, and when the same time isn’t the same time it usually fucks with me for at least a week, often two. Fall back used to be okay-ish before I started needing meds, but now it’s hell too.
Seriously. If you are x Time Zones away from Greenwich, England, then your CLOCKS should always be x hours away from GMT!
Agemegos
Over the past few years I’ve had to arrange ever more Internet videoconferences with people in Eastern Australia, California, Kansas, the Uk, and France, and just sorting out what everyone means by the times they say is getting to be quite a pain.
I’m moving towards the position that everyone ought to set their clocks and arrange their rendezvoux in UTC. I will learn to live with rising at 20:00 and going to bed at 12:00.
And for a next step, would somebody please remove the clocks from my kitchen stove and the dashboard of my car?
I’m completely on board with everyone getting used to UTC. Call it common time if we have to. I used to live along the IL border with IN. Half of the year the IN city we had Dr appts in was the same time as us (they didn’t change) the rest of the year we had to do the math.
My great uncle was born in 1903 and was a proud union maintenance of the way railroad man. He kept a political cartoon of kids waiting at the bus stop in Spring after the time change… wearing miners’ lighted helmets. He firmly believed that DST was only invoked to allow white collar executives to play tennis after work.
Clif
Now see, if it were up to me, we’d go to bed an hour later each night and wake up an hour later the next morning. Clif Standard Time. Because our aging process is keyed to our wake sleep cycle we’d end up living an average of about 4% longer with no medical breakthroughs required.
Medication wouldn’t be a problem because the dosage would be calibrated for a 25 hour day. Since sunrise and sunset would cycle through the day anyway, we could all switch to GMT/UMT worldwide without unfairly impacting any particular location.
Stifyn Baker
Weren’t there some experiments back in the 80s which indicated that humans naturally have a 25-26 hour bodyclock anyway? Your proposal sounds like something I could get behind. Especially the “whole world using GMT” part. On the other hand, simply eliminating sleep altogether also seems like a good idea to me.
someone
Eliminating sleep altogether? Reminds me of a webcomic, I think it was called “Power Nap”.
quixoticmaunster
There is also a Doctor Who episode along these lines called Sleep No More.
RassilonTDavros
I remember that one being popular to hate at the time, but honestly I loved that sleep angle. Heh, remember when Doctor Who was actually half-decent at doing episodes about capitalism?
I remember that, and I choose to make it the reason why I always want to sleep later and stay up later.
Paradox
If you are talking about the studies I think you are talking about, the natural human bodyclock was found to average at 24 hr 20-something min IIRC
That said, if you have a job with very flexible hours, I’ve heard favorable things about the 28 hour day, spend 19/20 hours awake and 9/8 hours asleep, and it syncs up perfectly with the weeks (6 28 hour days is the same as 7 24 hour days)
@Clif you have my vote in the next elections for world president.
(there was a good segment on DST in a recent 99% invisible. turns out it’s been tried many times, many different ways, in a bunch of places, and the lesson is probably that whatever you do, you can’t make everyone happy.)
Clif
I was thinking more along the lines of Supreme Dictator and Lord High Pubah, Rightful Ruler of the Asmovian Spaces and All Lesser Orbs Therein, but hey, World President is good too.
i will entertain President and First Tiger but beyond that, i balk.
yeah sorry i meant to link to it, it’s a podcast that goes into why things are designed the way they are, that i think is pretty good, here’s the ep i was thinking about https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/matters-of-time/
Clif
Thanks, milu!
Daibhid C
I am 0 hours away from Greenwich England. I’m also 500 miles north of it. I am very much in favour of getting rid of changing the clocks, as long as Scotland gets to stay on British Summer Time all year, rather than GMT, and it stops being dark at four in the afternoon.
Daibhid C
By “hours” I mean “time zones”, obvs.
Adam Black
Same issue with Boston, across the pond. We belong in Atlantic Time, not EST with NYC.
Its 4pm darkness here too.
A lot of people bongo ( and public health issues with spring ahead) . but w/ out DST it would be Daylight at 4am in the summer or earlier! ) .
Best solution is permanent Jump, if you far enough east or North a meridian.
Come to think of it, skipping sleep lead directly to the appearance of ghost/hallucination Mike because Amber’s got severe mental issues and considering the title of this chapter, he might make a return.
[Intro]
When I was a young boy, my father
Took me into the city to see a marching band
He said, “Son, when you grow up would you be
The savior of the broken, the beaten and the damned?”
He said, “Will you defeat them? Your demons
And all the non-believers, the plans that they have made?
Because one day, I’ll leave you a phantom
To lead you in the summer to join the black parade”
[Refrain]
When I was a young boy, my father
Took me into the city to see a marching band
He said, “Son, when you grow up would you be
The savior of the broken, the beaten and the damned?”
[Verse 1]
Sometimes I get the feeling she’s watching over me
And other times I feel like I should go
And through it all, the rise and fall, the bodies in the streets
And when you’re gone, we want you all to know
[Chorus]
We’ll carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re dead and gone, believe me
Your memory will carry on, we’ll carry on
And in my heart, I can’t contain it
The anthem won’t explain it
[Verse 2]
A world that sends you reeling from decimated dreams
Your misery and hate will kill us all
So paint it black and take it back, let’s shout it loud and clear
Defiant to the end we hear the call
[Chorus]
To carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re dead and gone, believe me
Your memory will carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re broken and defeated
Your weary widow marches
[Post-Chorus]
On and on, we carry through the fears (Oh, oh, oh)
Disappointed faces of your peers (Oh, oh, oh)
Take a look at me ’cause I could not care at all
[Bridge]
Do or die, you’ll never make me
Because the world will never take my heart
Go and try, you’ll never break me
We want it all, we wanna play this part
I won’t explain or say I’m sorry
I’m unashamed, I’m gonna show my scars
Give a cheer for all the broken
Listen here, because it’s who we are
I’m just a man, I’m not a hero
Just a boy who had to sing this song
I’m just a man, I’m not a hero
I don’t care
[Chorus]
We’ll carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re dead and gone, believe me
Your memory will carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re broken and defeated
Your weary widow marches on
[Outro]
Do or die, you’ll never make me
Because the world will never take my heart
Go and try, you’ll never break me
We want it all, we wanna play this part (We’ll carry on)
Do or die, you’ll never make me (We’ll carry on)
Because the world will never take my heart (We’ll carry on)
Go and try, you’ll never break me (We’ll carry)
We want it all, we wanna play this part (We’ll carry on)
haha yeah it’s like, ooooh which lyrics will turn out to be relevant?
“Will you defeat them? Your demons and all the non-believers”
> Will Amber manage to defeat the final boss in the, whatever it is she’s playing, on absolutely no sleep??
“And though you’re dead and gone, believe me your memory will carry on”
> RIP Mike. Our moms will never forget you.
“Disappointed faces of your peers”
> more Dorothy and Sarah being disappointed at Joyce!
I don’t think avatar roulette is working. Otherwise I would not still have blojob cat. For several months.
King Daniel
The last time there was a new slate of gravatars was several months ago, though – and it is quite possible indeed that even after a grav changeover the new code applied to your email coincidentally still gives the same grav.
if you sleep several hours every day and then you still have problems, have you tried not sleeping at all for days on end, maybe that’ll help, idk don’t knock it till you try it
I think Jacob, of all the cast, would look best in the purple tights. But Joe could pull off the look, I guess. I’m hoping not to meet the Ghost Who Walkertons.
Oh, I loved fucking up my sleep due to depression in college. Bonus for when I was taking a class that taught the specific damages of that while it was going strong.
Yeah, while I don’t use it for depression’s sake, I actually enjoy those nights when I just incidentally don’t get any sleep.
The day directly afterwards every time, where I was running on nothing but caffeine and cheesy snacks, it was like this very enjoyable in a weird sort of way.
It was able to do art and surf the web and experience the kinds of things like that I do to relax in this whole new way, and it was an almost psychedelic and almost “spiritual” kind of experience where I was even crying tears of joy at one point, it was just so happy and overwhelming like that.
Oh, once I didn’t sleep for like a couple days, and I was definitely going through it, but that last day was so good. I was walking outside and started tearing up about how much I loved trees.
Apparently a lack of one night’s sleep puts your mental factulties at a level if slightly tipsy – not that you get high per se, but it takes the edge off. No wonder some shaman rituals involve sleeplessness in fasting, I guess – two nights in I actually start hallucinate slightly, little movements and figures in my peripheral vision, etc.
Ereb
writing this at 6:30 am my time, btw, because I couldn’t find sleep
BBCC
Explains why a lot of abusers and cultists try to induce sleep deprivation in their targets too.
The Wellerman
Remember though, when YOU’RE in control, there’s benefit to be had from this occasional experience!
DON’T LET BAD PEOPLE TAKE GOOD THINGS AWAY FROM US!
Clif
Unfortunately, they do. When perfectly innocent and good things become associated with bad people, we can’t enjoy the things any more without inadvertently supporting the bad people who ruined it.
The Wellerman
Seriously, fuck that!
Just why couldn’t it work the other way around?
Because they view us just the very same way, and fear the day we realize that we have just as much power to take what they love away from them.
Did we give up recreational drugs because government projects like MKULTRA and COINTELPRO used them for horrible purposes against us?
NO!
Should we give these bad people any more power and satisfaction?
FUCK NO!!!
BBCC
Hey, I’m a big fan of staying up fuck-off late. I just know an incredible asshole who also was a fan of people staying up fuck-off late, on his terms. They were less likely to figure out his gaslight-y abusive bullshit before they got entrenched if they were sleeping at regular, reasonable hours.
I do not miss him.
BBCC
If they WEREN’T sleeping at regular, reasonable hours.
On that note, I’m going to bed.
Clif
Pleasing dreams.
Just_IDD
My personal ‘record’ in college was 5 days of mostly no sleep. I don’t remember some of it, but the parts I do convinced me that I should not repeat. It was a diet of pop (caffine) and the 4 vending food groups: Salty, chewy, crunchy, and sweet. it was over spring break, I had no money, a campus vending account.
Fun side note…If you don’t fall over at the computer, almost no one notices when you fall asleep at one..
people taking naps in random places that are functionally indistinguishable from collapsing from exhaustion? and no one bats an eyelid? yeah that sounds like college
231 thoughts on “10am”
Ana Chronistic
idk I get super depressed staying awake now there’s zero daylight by the time work is overTHANKS SHITTY FALL BACK TO STANDARD TIME
also DAAAAAAANG to panel 1!
RassilonTDavros
I’m half-convinced that only having Standard Time when it means it’ll be dark by six is a deliberate attempt to keep people from realizing how much Daylight Time actually sucks in general. I’m in favor of just letting times be what they are, dammit
Really, though, I just hate the change itself more than anything. I have to take my anti-depression meds at the same time every night before bed, and when the same time isn’t the same time it usually fucks with me for at least a week, often two. Fall back used to be okay-ish before I started needing meds, but now it’s hell too.
Cholma
Seriously. If you are x Time Zones away from Greenwich, England, then your CLOCKS should always be x hours away from GMT!
Agemegos
Over the past few years I’ve had to arrange ever more Internet videoconferences with people in Eastern Australia, California, Kansas, the Uk, and France, and just sorting out what everyone means by the times they say is getting to be quite a pain.
I’m moving towards the position that everyone ought to set their clocks and arrange their rendezvoux in UTC. I will learn to live with rising at 20:00 and going to bed at 12:00.
And for a next step, would somebody please remove the clocks from my kitchen stove and the dashboard of my car?
elebenty
I’m completely on board with everyone getting used to UTC. Call it common time if we have to. I used to live along the IL border with IN. Half of the year the IN city we had Dr appts in was the same time as us (they didn’t change) the rest of the year we had to do the math.
My great uncle was born in 1903 and was a proud union maintenance of the way railroad man. He kept a political cartoon of kids waiting at the bus stop in Spring after the time change… wearing miners’ lighted helmets. He firmly believed that DST was only invoked to allow white collar executives to play tennis after work.
Clif
Now see, if it were up to me, we’d go to bed an hour later each night and wake up an hour later the next morning. Clif Standard Time. Because our aging process is keyed to our wake sleep cycle we’d end up living an average of about 4% longer with no medical breakthroughs required.
Medication wouldn’t be a problem because the dosage would be calibrated for a 25 hour day. Since sunrise and sunset would cycle through the day anyway, we could all switch to GMT/UMT worldwide without unfairly impacting any particular location.
Stifyn Baker
Weren’t there some experiments back in the 80s which indicated that humans naturally have a 25-26 hour bodyclock anyway? Your proposal sounds like something I could get behind. Especially the “whole world using GMT” part. On the other hand, simply eliminating sleep altogether also seems like a good idea to me.
someone
Eliminating sleep altogether? Reminds me of a webcomic, I think it was called “Power Nap”.
quixoticmaunster
There is also a Doctor Who episode along these lines called Sleep No More.
RassilonTDavros
I remember that one being popular to hate at the time, but honestly I loved that sleep angle. Heh, remember when Doctor Who was actually half-decent at doing episodes about capitalism?
At some point its ability to do so went… Kerblam.
Some Guy
Yep. That was one weird comic!
ValdVin
I remember that, and I choose to make it the reason why I always want to sleep later and stay up later.
Paradox
If you are talking about the studies I think you are talking about, the natural human bodyclock was found to average at 24 hr 20-something min IIRC
That said, if you have a job with very flexible hours, I’ve heard favorable things about the 28 hour day, spend 19/20 hours awake and 9/8 hours asleep, and it syncs up perfectly with the weeks (6 28 hour days is the same as 7 24 hour days)
Agemegos
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
milu
@Clif you have my vote in the next elections for world president.
(there was a good segment on DST in a recent 99% invisible. turns out it’s been tried many times, many different ways, in a bunch of places, and the lesson is probably that whatever you do, you can’t make everyone happy.)
Clif
I was thinking more along the lines of Supreme Dictator and Lord High Pubah, Rightful Ruler of the Asmovian Spaces and All Lesser Orbs Therein, but hey, World President is good too.
Clif
But tell me more about 99% invisible.
milu
i will entertain President and First Tiger but beyond that, i balk.
yeah sorry i meant to link to it, it’s a podcast that goes into why things are designed the way they are, that i think is pretty good, here’s the ep i was thinking about
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/matters-of-time/
Clif
Thanks, milu!
Daibhid C
I am 0 hours away from Greenwich England. I’m also 500 miles north of it. I am very much in favour of getting rid of changing the clocks, as long as Scotland gets to stay on British Summer Time all year, rather than GMT, and it stops being dark at four in the afternoon.
Daibhid C
By “hours” I mean “time zones”, obvs.
Adam Black
Same issue with Boston, across the pond. We belong in Atlantic Time, not EST with NYC.
Its 4pm darkness here too.
A lot of people bongo ( and public health issues with spring ahead) . but w/ out DST it would be Daylight at 4am in the summer or earlier! ) .
Best solution is permanent Jump, if you far enough east or North a meridian.
goggleman64
Been there, Amber.
Sirksome
Skipping sleep didn’t really payoff the last time Amber tried it but I’m sure this time it will work!
Sirksome
Come to think of it, skipping sleep lead directly to the appearance of ghost/hallucination Mike because Amber’s got severe mental issues and considering the title of this chapter, he might make a return.
The Wellerman
Honestly, I think seeing ANY sleep-deprivation induced trip in this arc would be really cool!
Charles Spencer
How do we know this scene isn’t one?
Clif
Are you saying that Willis doesn’t get enough sleep?
Clif
Second Becky. Still no Jacob/Lucy/Booster.
Needfuldoer
Wasn’t that when she tried to starve Amazi-Girl out?
NinjaNick
Dina’s sweater is so cute!
Clif
True, but that is greatly facilitated by having Dina in it.
zee
I want one
Freddie!
Ah, yes … that IS Dina in the sweater. As another owner of that sweater has exclaimed on many occasions: “I can’t see without my glasses!”
YanderePanzer
I’ll leave you a Phantom
To lead you in the summer
TO JOIN THE BLACK PARADE
milu
[Intro]
When I was a young boy, my father
Took me into the city to see a marching band
He said, “Son, when you grow up would you be
The savior of the broken, the beaten and the damned?”
He said, “Will you defeat them? Your demons
And all the non-believers, the plans that they have made?
Because one day, I’ll leave you a phantom
To lead you in the summer to join the black parade”
[Refrain]
When I was a young boy, my father
Took me into the city to see a marching band
He said, “Son, when you grow up would you be
The savior of the broken, the beaten and the damned?”
[Verse 1]
Sometimes I get the feeling she’s watching over me
And other times I feel like I should go
And through it all, the rise and fall, the bodies in the streets
And when you’re gone, we want you all to know
[Chorus]
We’ll carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re dead and gone, believe me
Your memory will carry on, we’ll carry on
And in my heart, I can’t contain it
The anthem won’t explain it
[Verse 2]
A world that sends you reeling from decimated dreams
Your misery and hate will kill us all
So paint it black and take it back, let’s shout it loud and clear
Defiant to the end we hear the call
[Chorus]
To carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re dead and gone, believe me
Your memory will carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re broken and defeated
Your weary widow marches
[Post-Chorus]
On and on, we carry through the fears (Oh, oh, oh)
Disappointed faces of your peers (Oh, oh, oh)
Take a look at me ’cause I could not care at all
[Bridge]
Do or die, you’ll never make me
Because the world will never take my heart
Go and try, you’ll never break me
We want it all, we wanna play this part
I won’t explain or say I’m sorry
I’m unashamed, I’m gonna show my scars
Give a cheer for all the broken
Listen here, because it’s who we are
I’m just a man, I’m not a hero
Just a boy who had to sing this song
I’m just a man, I’m not a hero
I don’t care
[Chorus]
We’ll carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re dead and gone, believe me
Your memory will carry on, we’ll carry on
And though you’re broken and defeated
Your weary widow marches on
[Outro]
Do or die, you’ll never make me
Because the world will never take my heart
Go and try, you’ll never break me
We want it all, we wanna play this part (We’ll carry on)
Do or die, you’ll never make me (We’ll carry on)
Because the world will never take my heart (We’ll carry on)
Go and try, you’ll never break me (We’ll carry)
We want it all, we wanna play this part (We’ll carry on)
The Wellerman
Seriously, this has been my favorite song for years now! ?
Something tells me the lyrics may be hinting at pretty major plot details in this arc, which just makes me love the song even more!!!
milu
haha yeah it’s like, ooooh which lyrics will turn out to be relevant?
“Will you defeat them? Your demons and all the non-believers”
> Will Amber manage to defeat the final boss in the, whatever it is she’s playing, on absolutely no sleep??
“And though you’re dead and gone, believe me your memory will carry on”
> RIP Mike. Our moms will never forget you.
“Disappointed faces of your peers”
> more Dorothy and Sarah being disappointed at Joyce!
BBCC
Oh no. That can’t be good.
BBCC
OH COME ON. A THIRD WALKY IN A ROW?
Gravitar roulette is taunting me now.
Regalli
That is impressive. And INCREDIBLY unlikely.
Sirksome
The Walkening has begun!
Sirksome
Yeah, uh,….no I don’t want Malaya.
BarerMender
I don’t mind Carla, but I really liked being Ruth.
Robbie
I haven’t commented since they changed so let’s see ….
Robbie
This is more accurate than my former tbh
Clif
What did it used to be? Since it changes the comment avatars retroactively, we can’t look back to check.
Robbie
It was a cute Lucy smiling one. A nervous lesbian is just a little more me lol
Just_IDD
I don’t think avatar roulette is working. Otherwise I would not still have blojob cat. For several months.
King Daniel
The last time there was a new slate of gravatars was several months ago, though – and it is quite possible indeed that even after a grav changeover the new code applied to your email coincidentally still gives the same grav.
BarerMender
I was stuck with Galasso for over a year.
McBogue
Time to spin the Wheel of Fish…
Thag Simmons
Nah, it’s fine. Sleep is for the weak.
milu
if you sleep several hours every day and then you still have problems, have you tried not sleeping at all for days on end, maybe that’ll help, idk don’t knock it till you try it
Joe Moose
[reads chapter title]
Hopefully there won’t be any masked figures lurking in the shadows…
Agemegos
A tame wolf would be cute, though.
Agemegos
I think Jacob, of all the cast, would look best in the purple tights. But Joe could pull off the look, I guess. I’m hoping not to meet the Ghost Who Walkertons.
Yumi
Oh, I loved fucking up my sleep due to depression in college. Bonus for when I was taking a class that taught the specific damages of that while it was going strong.
Also, Dina, my love. <33
The Wellerman
Yeah, while I don’t use it for depression’s sake, I actually enjoy those nights when I just incidentally don’t get any sleep.
The day directly afterwards every time, where I was running on nothing but caffeine and cheesy snacks, it was like this very enjoyable in a weird sort of way.
It was able to do art and surf the web and experience the kinds of things like that I do to relax in this whole new way, and it was an almost psychedelic and almost “spiritual” kind of experience where I was even crying tears of joy at one point, it was just so happy and overwhelming like that.
Yumi
Oh, once I didn’t sleep for like a couple days, and I was definitely going through it, but that last day was so good. I was walking outside and started tearing up about how much I loved trees.
The Wellerman
Yeah, right? It’s one helluva drug.
*plays “Deep Jungle Walk” by Astrix on the Hacked Muzak*
Lensdapens
That’s like hypermania, isn’t it? It is some sort of self introduced mechanism against depression says my therapist.
Ereb
Apparently a lack of one night’s sleep puts your mental factulties at a level if slightly tipsy – not that you get high per se, but it takes the edge off. No wonder some shaman rituals involve sleeplessness in fasting, I guess – two nights in I actually start hallucinate slightly, little movements and figures in my peripheral vision, etc.
Ereb
writing this at 6:30 am my time, btw, because I couldn’t find sleep
BBCC
Explains why a lot of abusers and cultists try to induce sleep deprivation in their targets too.
The Wellerman
Remember though, when YOU’RE in control, there’s benefit to be had from this occasional experience!
DON’T LET BAD PEOPLE TAKE GOOD THINGS AWAY FROM US!
Clif
Unfortunately, they do. When perfectly innocent and good things become associated with bad people, we can’t enjoy the things any more without inadvertently supporting the bad people who ruined it.
The Wellerman
Seriously, fuck that!
Just why couldn’t it work the other way around?
Because they view us just the very same way, and fear the day we realize that we have just as much power to take what they love away from them.
Did we give up recreational drugs because government projects like MKULTRA and COINTELPRO used them for horrible purposes against us?
NO!
Should we give these bad people any more power and satisfaction?
FUCK NO!!!
BBCC
Hey, I’m a big fan of staying up fuck-off late. I just know an incredible asshole who also was a fan of people staying up fuck-off late, on his terms. They were less likely to figure out his gaslight-y abusive bullshit before they got entrenched if they were sleeping at regular, reasonable hours.
I do not miss him.
BBCC
If they WEREN’T sleeping at regular, reasonable hours.
On that note, I’m going to bed.
Clif
Pleasing dreams.
Just_IDD
My personal ‘record’ in college was 5 days of mostly no sleep. I don’t remember some of it, but the parts I do convinced me that I should not repeat. It was a diet of pop (caffine) and the 4 vending food groups: Salty, chewy, crunchy, and sweet. it was over spring break, I had no money, a campus vending account.
Fun side note…If you don’t fall over at the computer, almost no one notices when you fall asleep at one..
milu
people taking naps in random places that are functionally indistinguishable from collapsing from exhaustion? and no one bats an eyelid? yeah that sounds like college