Overexposure to drama the previous year (with her former roommate) has left Sarah with a very low tolerance for drama. Especially unnecessary drama. In her room.
This is a good distinction! After all, Sarah fought Ryan with a baseball bat to protect Joyce way back when. But she doesn’t usually display affection, consideration, etc., and if I were Joyce right now it’d piss me off. Then again, from Sarah’s perspective, Joyce is being unreasonable and it probably annoys her that she won’t do stuff to help herself.
Joy
I agree with what you’ve said, but if that’s the case, Sarah is coming from a place of ableism with regards to her perspective.
thank you so much 4 it laura, very glad, currently trying to type with my non-dominant hand while the other is swollen :/
Laura
Oh noes! Don’t type! Rest, ice, elevation. Brace may help you keep it still & refrain from using it, if you can brace without any pain at all from the pressure. Anti-inflammatories and analgesics are so important for swollen joints!
She looks skeptical because Dorothy’s plan sounds too good to be true and Joyce is in a phase where she distrusts the existence of goodness. Sarah’s outright mocking it doesn’t let Joyce have even the weak nihilism she’s been clinging to.
Wow, I’m thinking that would be a terrible idea. I’m sure Roz would feel zero embarrassment, but her insistence on being visibly and vocally unembarrassed would probably end up attracting the very attention Joyce doesn’t want.
Becky wants to go so she can pretend she’s Joyce’s girlfriend for a minute, if only subliminally, and it’s been a fanon theory for 6 or 7 years now that Becky would catastrophically meltdown if Joyce did come out as not-straight and then not choose Becky, so seeing Dorothy playing out that fantasy is ripe fruit for drama.
But imagine what kind of tizzies Joyce and Joe will explode into if a pharmacist calls them a couple as Joyce is picking up birth control. It would be amazing.
that would be pretty messed up but even if she is upset in the moment , i think her current relationship with dina is good enough to where they’re strong enough to stay together rather than being a ‘rebound’ like sarah said forever ago
Decidedly Orthogonal
Yes. Becky is _genuinely_ attracted to Dina, and loves her. So even if Joyce came out, Becky couldn’t/wouldn’t drop Dina.
Another thing I haven’t heard raised is, (or I forgot) even if Joyce came out as the most lesbianest, she still might not be /attracted/ to Becky like that. Becky was always crushing over Joyce, but Joyce has spent her life viewing Becky as a sister/friend. If Joyce was actually attracted to Becky, then (no guarantee) I imagine it would have been bleeding showing through long since.
Axel
it’s also been several months, so even if it started as a rebound it’s obviously changed since
Though I’ve suspect that is Becky’s underlying motivation too, it works paint her bringing Joyce up when talking about her and her girlfriend hooking up in a way that could be hurtful to Dina if ever pointed out.
Yeah, at this point I think Becky’s romantic interest in Joyce has died down a little. The recent tension they’ve had has noticeably changed their dynamic. Joyce is still Becky’s closest thing to family now though so she’s overly possessive but the crush might be gone. If Joyce ever came out I think Becky would be okay. She seems to even think Joyce might be bicurious although she doesn’t trust her gaydar.
Alex
I think she’d be okay as long as Joyce didn’t want to date Dorothy.
Pain + insomnia would be the worst, it’s hard to force yourself to sleep but i try to nap through a stomachache if it’s late at night or at least take some medicine before laying back in bed even if i can’t be unconscious for it
I feel like the daily release schedule is making this conversation seem longer than it actually is. It’s probably only been a few minutes of back and forth, tops.
if three or four people were berating me like this while I felt this bad after i my alarm went off and i asked for three minutes of quiet, i would probably start crying
Joyce is the sort of outgoing person who would ASK for help if she wanted it. There’s absolutely no need for THREE people to be hovering over her and nagging her about her medication.
If Joyce wants to get the pills, she will. If she doesn’t, she won’t. She’s an adult and can deal with her OWN decision on whether she’d rather endure the pain of cramps or endure the potential social humiliation of being perceived as a sexual being.
This is really the sort of thing she has to do at her own pace, and I feel like all Dorothy is accomplishing by brute forcing it is making sure that Joyce hates the idea more and more.
I know when I’m in severe pain it limits my ability to think to the extent that it’s hard for me to cope with the steps to address the pain, and for me it’s simple enough that I don’t have to leave my apartment to do it, much less have social interactions that would produce anxiety even without the pain.
Joyce’s reaction to debilitating pain are very familiar to me, and it took time for me to recognize that I do need help sometimes. What you are saying is not a universal truth, and I don’t think is accurate to Joyce.
Joyce is also in such a state that she’d probably end up missing like a weeks of classes and be unable to do any school work if someone doesn’t intervene.
I feel like debilitating pain/fatigue/depression is too normalized in general. If your able-bodied friend goes from chipper and energetic one day to literally unable/unwilling to get out of bed the next, trying to intervene and help is actually a good thing.
Yeah honestly as someone who deals with chronic pain, I’d be all over Dorothy’s offer to just take my birthdate and go get the meds for me. I’d be like yes, plz, I don’t want to leave this bed, just bring me the things so I don’t have to move.
Granted Joyce is not me, and I think there’s more stuff going on here, what with Joyce’s bad reaction to the autism diagnosis and her residual Christian discomfort over taking birth control pills at all. It’s hard to know what exactly is causing her to be stubborn about this.
I know her friends can be overbearing but also I don’t blame them for trying to offer help. She’s been utterly miserable and making it very well-known, and they are her friends and are trying to fix it. I don’t think she’s said she just wants to be left alone, but also Sarah still has to live in that room too so she can’t leave her alone completely. It’s not unreasonable to want to try to find a way to resolve this.
Especially when there IS a solution and Joyce is dragging her feet on acting on it or even accepting help with it. When my kid gets like this I take the “okay I’m gonna go now and you can come tell me when you’re ready to talk” approach, but Joyce is 1-not 7, and 2-has been like this for days and leaving her alone seemed to help even less than being proactive.
also when Jennifer took joyce to the doctor and scolded everyone else for not doing so sooner, a lot of commenters agreed and judged the group pretty harshly for not doing so, even though this level of disagreement is probably exactly why they hadn’t tried harder. they just got the notion yesterday that joyce wanted to fix this so they stepped up their game and hit an immediate brick wall.
Joyce is incredibly complicated and difficult and I don’t understand why everyone expects her friends to know what to do 100% of the time.
Honestly, I know they’re basically stupid kids and, y’know, we all know the title of the strip, but taking a step back, having to deal with someone as consistently and variously neurotic as Joyce would be… REALLY wearying. That aside from the trauma conga line they all get to enjoy. I’d have thrown my hands up and said “just get on with it” by now
Joy
:/
You could also just… not make a big deal out of it when someone has a neurosis. Instead of making fun of that person or getting frustrated every time. The feeling of weariness would have to be mutual.
part of being an adult is making unintelligent decisions and figuring out why that was the wrong choice. Joyce is not being given the breathing room to even do this
136 thoughts on “Counter”
Ana Chronistic
yeah, imagine if there was a magical drug that
bannedcured cancer foreverbut bc it also halts ovulation (or sperm production!), it’s still “birth control”
drugs don’t do ONLY ONE THING, that’s why there are side effects, which in Joyce’s case would be “also discourages pregnancy”
fuckin’ optics
Tan
Or imagine a drug used to treat cancer and autoimmune diseases that also happens to be an abortificant.
(note: not hypothetical. Methotrexate)
anon
that makes sense, if you’re going through cancer no way it’d seem safe/healthy enough to also be pregnant as well
Ophidiophile
A lot of drugs that target cancer do so by targeting fast growing cells, which are also found in embryos.
Schpoonman
“You’re mocking me, aren’t you?”
Jeff K!
“I’ll have you know that even though you tried to terminate me, revenge is not an idea we encourage on my planet.”
Kyrik Michalowski
What is that from? It sounds vaguely familiar but I’ve got no guesses.
Doctor_Who
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAct7Ynxty8
Kyrik Michalowski
Is the second quote also from toy story?
Nova
Yes! 😀
Bicycle Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8yyJE9uY0
Sirksome
Helping and being considerate aren’t really Sarah strengths anyway. Sometimes you gotta stick to what you’re good at.
Ophidiophile
Overexposure to drama the previous year (with her former roommate) has left Sarah with a very low tolerance for drama. Especially unnecessary drama. In her room.
BarerMender
My take is Sarah is just being an asshole.
Sirksome
Yeah exactly!
thejeff
Helping kind of is.
Being considerate definitely isn’t.
epitome of incomprehensibility
This is a good distinction! After all, Sarah fought Ryan with a baseball bat to protect Joyce way back when. But she doesn’t usually display affection, consideration, etc., and if I were Joyce right now it’d piss me off. Then again, from Sarah’s perspective, Joyce is being unreasonable and it probably annoys her that she won’t do stuff to help herself.
Joy
I agree with what you’ve said, but if that’s the case, Sarah is coming from a place of ableism with regards to her perspective.
Imogen
FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT FAKE DATING PLOT
Imogen
FAKE DATING PLOT this is NOT a DRILL
The Wellerman
we can dream…
Laura
Hi NG. I hope the infodump I left you yesterday was useful to your friend. Please LMK if you have any questions.
The Wellerman
thank you so much 4 it laura, very glad, currently trying to type with my non-dominant hand while the other is swollen :/
Laura
Oh noes! Don’t type! Rest, ice, elevation. Brace may help you keep it still & refrain from using it, if you can brace without any pain at all from the pressure. Anti-inflammatories and analgesics are so important for swollen joints!
Cooking may cause your hand to swell up more by using it, so don’t cook if you can avoid it. But if you can get some of these without having to cook, somehow, these foods and spices are good for inflammation:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/13-anti-inflammatory-foods
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/anti-inflammatory-herbs
Take good care!
jeffepp
You have seen the last two Dork Tower comics, haven’t you?
Imogen
I haven’t really kept up with that comic lately, but I do like those two girls.
Francoinblanco
So you are couple? Go on kiss each other then i sell you your husky drug
Opus the Poet
I think Otto Korrekt bolluxed your “hussy” to “husky”.
Miri
… OH..! That’s good, I was trying to work out why somebody was selling drugs to Huskies ???
Amós Batista
yes
Lingo
For a brief millisecond I thought the title of the strip was “Cooter.”
Phrasing!
Clif
Jennifer would tell them it’s just a phrase their going through.
a/snow/mous/e
Huh, same here. Must be because Becky’s here.
drs
Dorothy cuts to the chase in the first panel. Go Dorothy!
drs
Joyce looks skeptical of Dorothy, but looks actually mad at Sarah in the last panel.
alongcameaspider
I suspect given the state Joyce is in she has less patience for Sarah’s usual attitude
Pylgrim
She looks skeptical because Dorothy’s plan sounds too good to be true and Joyce is in a phase where she distrusts the existence of goodness. Sarah’s outright mocking it doesn’t let Joyce have even the weak nihilism she’s been clinging to.
BBCC
Oh COME ON, Dotty, even Joyce got that one past her gaydar!
Schpoonman
Oh, I finally got it.
This ends with Joe going with her to the pharmacy.
(it won’t, but that would be the most fun development as far as that ship goes)
Nono
Honestly, at this point my guess is Roz.
RassilonTDavros
Ooh, that would be interesting.
Wizard
Wow, I’m thinking that would be a terrible idea. I’m sure Roz would feel zero embarrassment, but her insistence on being visibly and vocally unembarrassed would probably end up attracting the very attention Joyce doesn’t want.
Schpoonman
Becky wants to go so she can pretend she’s Joyce’s girlfriend for a minute, if only subliminally, and it’s been a fanon theory for 6 or 7 years now that Becky would catastrophically meltdown if Joyce did come out as not-straight and then not choose Becky, so seeing Dorothy playing out that fantasy is ripe fruit for drama.
But imagine what kind of tizzies Joyce and Joe will explode into if a pharmacist calls them a couple as Joyce is picking up birth control. It would be amazing.
anon
that would be pretty messed up but even if she is upset in the moment , i think her current relationship with dina is good enough to where they’re strong enough to stay together rather than being a ‘rebound’ like sarah said forever ago
Decidedly Orthogonal
Yes. Becky is _genuinely_ attracted to Dina, and loves her. So even if Joyce came out, Becky couldn’t/wouldn’t drop Dina.
Another thing I haven’t heard raised is, (or I forgot) even if Joyce came out as the most lesbianest, she still might not be /attracted/ to Becky like that. Becky was always crushing over Joyce, but Joyce has spent her life viewing Becky as a sister/friend. If Joyce was actually attracted to Becky, then (no guarantee) I imagine it would have been
bleedingshowing through long since.Axel
it’s also been several months, so even if it started as a rebound it’s obviously changed since
Archieve
Though I’ve suspect that is Becky’s underlying motivation too, it works paint her bringing Joyce up when talking about her and her girlfriend hooking up in a way that could be hurtful to Dina if ever pointed out.
Sirksome
Yeah, at this point I think Becky’s romantic interest in Joyce has died down a little. The recent tension they’ve had has noticeably changed their dynamic. Joyce is still Becky’s closest thing to family now though so she’s overly possessive but the crush might be gone. If Joyce ever came out I think Becky would be okay. She seems to even think Joyce might be bicurious although she doesn’t trust her gaydar.
Alex
I think she’d be okay as long as Joyce didn’t want to date Dorothy.
Fay
Eh, I think the only reason she’d go with Joe is if she needed someone to literally carry her there.
darkoneko
Like, a few days a month ?
Roe
They’re all being extremely annoying. Like… let her sleep
StClair
Joyce may be in too much pain to go back to sleep, even if they let her.
anon
Pain + insomnia would be the worst, it’s hard to force yourself to sleep but i try to nap through a stomachache if it’s late at night or at least take some medicine before laying back in bed even if i can’t be unconscious for it
Fay
I feel like the daily release schedule is making this conversation seem longer than it actually is. It’s probably only been a few minutes of back and forth, tops.
Roe
if three or four people were berating me like this while I felt this bad after i my alarm went off and i asked for three minutes of quiet, i would probably start crying
DailyBrad
On like multiple different levels here, time for Joyce to take her medicine.
Derek
Joyce is the sort of outgoing person who would ASK for help if she wanted it. There’s absolutely no need for THREE people to be hovering over her and nagging her about her medication.
If Joyce wants to get the pills, she will. If she doesn’t, she won’t. She’s an adult and can deal with her OWN decision on whether she’d rather endure the pain of cramps or endure the potential social humiliation of being perceived as a sexual being.
This is really the sort of thing she has to do at her own pace, and I feel like all Dorothy is accomplishing by brute forcing it is making sure that Joyce hates the idea more and more.
Devin
I know when I’m in severe pain it limits my ability to think to the extent that it’s hard for me to cope with the steps to address the pain, and for me it’s simple enough that I don’t have to leave my apartment to do it, much less have social interactions that would produce anxiety even without the pain.
Joyce’s reaction to debilitating pain are very familiar to me, and it took time for me to recognize that I do need help sometimes. What you are saying is not a universal truth, and I don’t think is accurate to Joyce.
Kyrik Michalowski
+1 Well said.
Fay
Joyce is also in such a state that she’d probably end up missing like a weeks of classes and be unable to do any school work if someone doesn’t intervene.
I feel like debilitating pain/fatigue/depression is too normalized in general. If your able-bodied friend goes from chipper and energetic one day to literally unable/unwilling to get out of bed the next, trying to intervene and help is actually a good thing.
Autogatos
Yeah honestly as someone who deals with chronic pain, I’d be all over Dorothy’s offer to just take my birthdate and go get the meds for me. I’d be like yes, plz, I don’t want to leave this bed, just bring me the things so I don’t have to move.
Granted Joyce is not me, and I think there’s more stuff going on here, what with Joyce’s bad reaction to the autism diagnosis and her residual Christian discomfort over taking birth control pills at all. It’s hard to know what exactly is causing her to be stubborn about this.
I know her friends can be overbearing but also I don’t blame them for trying to offer help. She’s been utterly miserable and making it very well-known, and they are her friends and are trying to fix it. I don’t think she’s said she just wants to be left alone, but also Sarah still has to live in that room too so she can’t leave her alone completely. It’s not unreasonable to want to try to find a way to resolve this.
Especially when there IS a solution and Joyce is dragging her feet on acting on it or even accepting help with it. When my kid gets like this I take the “okay I’m gonna go now and you can come tell me when you’re ready to talk” approach, but Joyce is 1-not 7, and 2-has been like this for days and leaving her alone seemed to help even less than being proactive.
brute
also when Jennifer took joyce to the doctor and scolded everyone else for not doing so sooner, a lot of commenters agreed and judged the group pretty harshly for not doing so, even though this level of disagreement is probably exactly why they hadn’t tried harder. they just got the notion yesterday that joyce wanted to fix this so they stepped up their game and hit an immediate brick wall.
Joyce is incredibly complicated and difficult and I don’t understand why everyone expects her friends to know what to do 100% of the time.
-
Honestly, I know they’re basically stupid kids and, y’know, we all know the title of the strip, but taking a step back, having to deal with someone as consistently and variously neurotic as Joyce would be… REALLY wearying. That aside from the trauma conga line they all get to enjoy. I’d have thrown my hands up and said “just get on with it” by now
Joy
:/
You could also just… not make a big deal out of it when someone has a neurosis. Instead of making fun of that person or getting frustrated every time. The feeling of weariness would have to be mutual.
Rabisch
Sorry, but choose to stay in pain just for avoid a social awkwardness is just not an intelligent thing to do, a friend has to point out that.
egg egg
Sometimes social awkwardness or social anxiety is ALSO pain.
Derek
part of being an adult is making unintelligent decisions and figuring out why that was the wrong choice. Joyce is not being given the breathing room to even do this
Wizard
Pointing it out is one thing, trying to force someone into your idea of the “right” decision is quite another.
Ron