yes yes they did but dragon ball z added the dance to it
Transformers: stated fusion
DBZ: Added dance
SU: made it sassy
Pablo360
And I choose to believe it’s justt as much a metaphor for romantic relationships there as it is in Steven Universe.
Pablo360
Which kind of puts Vegito/Gogeta in a darker light given how reluctant Vegeta usually is but I would totally kid-ship Trunks & Goten.
Betty Anne
Vegetto/Gogeta have always been fucked up situations, in the same way Vegeta/Goku has always been a fucked up couple (even moreso after Dragon Ball Super).
Being fucked up has never stopped anyone from shipping it, though. :3
Those lesbians are NEVER in space! GOD. It’s like you don’t get anything!
AgentKeen
And they’re BI!
Well, that might apply to Robin at least.
Pablo360
Rose was bi.
Pablo360
Actually so is Rebecca Sugar now that I think about it.
Emily
But Steven Universe is actually consistently good and queer.
Pablo360
There isn’t a bad episode of Steven Uni–
“Rising Tides / Crashing Skies”
…okay, but Renaldo’s never really given–
“The New Lars”
…there may in fact be bad episodes of Steven Universe.
New Kid
I gotta say im not too fond of “too many birthdays”, partially because it contains the only continuity error ive noticed on the show – Pearl saying that she likes pie
Pat
Doesn’t Pearl like making pies and also think they’re pretty?
H.Savinien
I always thought she misunderstood. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Pearl was fond of “pi”.
Mishyana
I’ll give you ‘Rising Tides’, but what was wrong with ‘New Lars’?
I helped write a cut of the first season that’s meant to introduce new viewers without tripping over the Frybo/Catfinders stumbling block- check out Flood Order
Be prepared for fluffyness, space magic, and having your still beating heart ripped out of your chest and stomped into meat chunks in front of you.
Also shipping. Dear Lord, the shipping…
It’s not the show that has gotten worse and worse, it’s the fans. It’s a cliché that fandoms are bad, yes, but in this one it is especially true with a vengeance. Watch it, form your own opinions about it, and ignore the fandom. I’d say give it a season and then decide if you’re into it.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Well, implicit vilification of Black Lives Matter is a pretty big no-no, at least for me.
BBCC
Wait, what?
NM
I don’t know what Sepu. here may be referring to exactly, though it is true that SU has a history of handling its black-coded gems pretty badly. Of the seven gems voiced by black actresses (Jasper, Sugilite, Sapphire, Sardonyx, Malachite, Bismuth, and Garnet), four were brutish antagonists, two of whom were pretty much only featured in one-off episodes.
Plus, Bismuth was punished in-episode for more-or-less saying, “There’s no reasoning or turning the other cheek with an enemy that won’t listen and only wants to destroy us; our only option is to meet force with force”, and then the big twist of the season was “Oh, actually, killing is OK sometimes.”
A post online summed up the problem with SU that’s becoming harder and harder to ignore. I think it went something like:
Person: *on fire* Help me steven I’m on fire
Steven: No 🙁 If I harm the fire… wouldn’t that make us just as bad?
Person: I’m dying steven
As a queer Asian-American woman dying for representation (actual factual lesbian relationships and NB characters treated in positive/neutral lights, plus a rad South Asian best friend character and 5 Asian voice actresses in major roles? Sign me TF up!) and as a big sucker for angst and lore, I really appreciate SU. As a critical viewer, though… I hate to admit it, but especially recently, the show’s getting more stale, formulaic, and just generally “eeeehhhhhh eeeurghh”. Late season 1 was great, season 2 was even better, season 3 had fantastic episodes but also started showing cracks, and season 4 is just… well, awful. It’s at the point where pretty much the only reason I’m still watching the show is in the hopes of an episode where things will turn around, but it seems more and more likely that the golden days of SU are past. In the meantime I’m just cringing whenever Steven walks onscreen. Excuse me for all the words.
Elitist Oars
Give me a break. You are talking as if the inconsistencies between how Steven thinks one should act and what Rose did, not to mention Rose’s various deceptions and hypocricies aren’t the POINT of those episodes, and thus you are treating one of the show’s greatest strengths as if it was a weakness.
Also Season 4’s 10 episodes so far contain had 2 of my all-time favorite greatest episodes in the whole series yes, Mindful Education and Last One Out of Beach City.
I think their point is it’s bad that they (spoiler) killed off the black coded character and treated them like the bad guy when they later admited they were right, by saying the white coded character did it.
Sarda
If a show presents a protagonist as the audience surrogate, then doesn’t properly signify when said protagonist is not in fact voicing the desired opinion, it is not the fault of the audience for misinterpreting the intent of the episode.
This is why the Doctor Who episode Voyage of the Damned turned many viewers off by essentially presenting The Doctor as a messiah/god none-too-subtly. Though the overarcing theme of the tenth Doctor (and that season in particular) was his tendency to think himself better than everyone else, and his final episodes (especially The Waters of Mars) were built around beating that out of him, it took a rather long time to get to that point and not everyone realized that Voyage of the Damned was not saying
“I am the Doctor, and I am a god”
but rather
“The Doctor has fallen so far to vanity that he thinks himself a god”
Pat
“If a show presents a protagonist as the audience surrogate, then doesn’t properly signify when said protagonist is not in fact voicing the desired opinion, it is not the fault of the audience for misinterpreting the intent of the episode.”
The episodes about Steven learning that Rose did questionable things are all about his image of her cracking, though. That is what he voices.
Plus we know very little about what Rose did. Bismuth was specifically interested in killing. Not being willing to kill if necessary, but intentionally killing–even though for Gems that’s more difficult than incapacitation. Her plan was to be less effective of a fighter as long as she got to kill; that’s not the same thing.
Remember that all of the Crystal Gems except Steven–so including herself–were with the bad guys first.
Also she turned tried to murder an ally that argued with her. It’s implied she did so twice.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Yeah, I just can’t help but read the combination of the “Don’t fight hate with hate” message with punishing a black-coded character as vilification of BLM.
Fata Morgana
I… find that a super odd interpretation. Mostly because, BLM *does not* fight with hate. BLM has actual proposed solutions from societal problems. I consider myself a member of BLM, if a lose organization of activists can have a membership. BLM doesn’t fight with hate at all. BLM doesn’t fight with murder. BLM fights with *truth*.
Making a scene where a character tries to promote murder as the only solution into an allegory for BLM strikes me as really, really gross and something that could only go on in the minds of people who don’t understand what BLM is (like my racist parents).
I also am pretty grossed out by people calling characters “black coded” because they have black voice actors. I mean, your interpretations of characters are up to you, of course, but saying, “I dislike this character, therefore they are *black*.” seems super shitty. Jasper, for example, reads absolutely as white to me. I don’t care what skin color her voice actor is. If white actors can play black and Asian characters, black voice actors can play white characters. (And I’ve watched shows where black actors did Asian voices as well. It’s voice acting, your ethnicity need not match the character’s ethnicity if you have flexible skills). Jasper is coded white to me. Bismuth feels coded black, but that’s because she has dreads and she’s not doing anything special with her delivery to make it “sound” white (Jasper is doing a particular voice, IMO).
Anyway, all this does feel like a confirmation that it’s the fans that are messed up, not the show.
You should – SU is a great series thus far. As a bi/lesbian mother, it is really neat to be able to show my child a TV show with positive lesbian characters. Plus general good writing, good characters, and a love for both Eastern and Western animation.
as the Gems come from a race/species that only has one gender. I’m not sure the labels Bi or lesbian would apply as they would not have a concept of the dichotomy of a dual sexed species prior to their arrival on earth.
just sayin.
BBCC
The writers have said ‘non-binary, femme presenting lesbians’ was a good earth descriptor for two of them.
361 thoughts on “Messed”
Coco Pommel
Hot. I have been meaning to see that series.
Coco Pommel
I’m also rather sure that enough episodes in, from what I’ve heard, Leslie would very much like to convince Robin to fuse with her. Heh heh.
Emily
fusion is just a cheap tactic to make straight girls gayer
Coco Pommel
What’s wrong with that? o 3o
Gordon
They’re stronger than you.
a4lbi
*snicker*
Killjoy
Wasn’t that something Jasper said?
SailorCakes
More like something Garnet said/song
Scoops
“Cheap tactic” is Jasper, “stronger than you” is Garnet.
marianne
?
TheAnonymousGuy
Dragonball Z did it first!
Foxhack
Ahem… Transformers? Combiners? WILLIS, WE NEED YOUR WISDOM HERE
L33tmaster
yes yes they did but dragon ball z added the dance to it
Transformers: stated fusion
DBZ: Added dance
SU: made it sassy
Pablo360
And I choose to believe it’s justt as much a metaphor for romantic relationships there as it is in Steven Universe.
Pablo360
Which kind of puts Vegito/Gogeta in a darker light given how reluctant Vegeta usually is but I would totally kid-ship Trunks & Goten.
Betty Anne
Vegetto/Gogeta have always been fucked up situations, in the same way Vegeta/Goku has always been a fucked up couple (even moreso after Dragon Ball Super).
Being fucked up has never stopped anyone from shipping it, though. :3
Pat
It definitely is not as it is in Steven Universe.
gqbrielle
someone really liked your comment 😀 http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/154747236822/theraggedqueen-itswalky-if-i-didnt-love-your
Doctor_Who
Whoa whoa whoa! Steven Universe on the first date?! That’s WAY too much of a commitment.
…Seriously though, I love that show, but it’s like 20 episodes before you even learn what the plot is. Maybe Gravity Falls for a first date?
NubeTrasnochada
But Gravity Falls don’t have space lesbians D:
Doctor_Who
…Legend of Korra, maybe?
Lan
Not enough Giant Women.
Tunaro
At least not until the end ‘a Season 2.
JetstreamGW
Those lesbians are NEVER in space! GOD. It’s like you don’t get anything!
AgentKeen
And they’re BI!
Well, that might apply to Robin at least.
Pablo360
Rose was bi.
Pablo360
Actually so is Rebecca Sugar now that I think about it.
Emily
But Steven Universe is actually consistently good and queer.
Pablo360
There isn’t a bad episode of Steven Uni–
“Rising Tides / Crashing Skies”
…okay, but Renaldo’s never really given–
“The New Lars”
…there may in fact be bad episodes of Steven Universe.
New Kid
I gotta say im not too fond of “too many birthdays”, partially because it contains the only continuity error ive noticed on the show – Pearl saying that she likes pie
Pat
Doesn’t Pearl like making pies and also think they’re pretty?
H.Savinien
I always thought she misunderstood. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Pearl was fond of “pi”.
Mishyana
I’ll give you ‘Rising Tides’, but what was wrong with ‘New Lars’?
Sporky
To be fair, she said “episodes of Steven Universe”, not “the entirety of Steven Universe in chronological order”.
Tunaro
Bismuth, at least, is fifth date stuff, minimum.
BBCC
20 episodes isn’t even three hours, you can binge that much on a date.
ChessboardMan
Actually the plot of the series is explained in detail in the first episode. It’s just hidden as an advert jingle for a frozen treat.
Neeks
“fruity oaty bars”?
wait wrong series sorry
Thorn
“Cookie Cat!
It’s a pet for your tummy!”
Love the look Garnet and Amethyst exchange when Steven sings that song 🙂
Benjamin Geiger
That explains why I have no idea, having seen only three episodes.
Rose
I helped write a cut of the first season that’s meant to introduce new viewers without tripping over the Frybo/Catfinders stumbling block- check out Flood Order
http://tumblr.katsuricata.com/post/140052092435/steven-universe-introducing-flood-order
Tunaro
Be prepared for fluffyness, space magic, and having your still beating heart ripped out of your chest and stomped into meat chunks in front of you.
Also shipping. Dear Lord, the shipping…
Ragnarok101
SU is the cartoon Dardanelles.
Plasma Mongoose
I have yet to watch any of the GF or SU cartoons, I only barely halfway through the AT cartoons.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
From what I’ve heard, it’s gotten worse and worse, to the point that some former fans now find it unwatchable.
BreakerGandalf
You can find those people in pretty much every fanbase.
PlutoniumBoss
It’s not the show that has gotten worse and worse, it’s the fans. It’s a cliché that fandoms are bad, yes, but in this one it is especially true with a vengeance. Watch it, form your own opinions about it, and ignore the fandom. I’d say give it a season and then decide if you’re into it.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Well, implicit vilification of Black Lives Matter is a pretty big no-no, at least for me.
BBCC
Wait, what?
NM
I don’t know what Sepu. here may be referring to exactly, though it is true that SU has a history of handling its black-coded gems pretty badly. Of the seven gems voiced by black actresses (Jasper, Sugilite, Sapphire, Sardonyx, Malachite, Bismuth, and Garnet), four were brutish antagonists, two of whom were pretty much only featured in one-off episodes.
Plus, Bismuth was punished in-episode for more-or-less saying, “There’s no reasoning or turning the other cheek with an enemy that won’t listen and only wants to destroy us; our only option is to meet force with force”, and then the big twist of the season was “Oh, actually, killing is OK sometimes.”
A post online summed up the problem with SU that’s becoming harder and harder to ignore. I think it went something like:
Person: *on fire* Help me steven I’m on fire
Steven: No 🙁 If I harm the fire… wouldn’t that make us just as bad?
Person: I’m dying steven
As a queer Asian-American woman dying for representation (actual factual lesbian relationships and NB characters treated in positive/neutral lights, plus a rad South Asian best friend character and 5 Asian voice actresses in major roles? Sign me TF up!) and as a big sucker for angst and lore, I really appreciate SU. As a critical viewer, though… I hate to admit it, but especially recently, the show’s getting more stale, formulaic, and just generally “eeeehhhhhh eeeurghh”. Late season 1 was great, season 2 was even better, season 3 had fantastic episodes but also started showing cracks, and season 4 is just… well, awful. It’s at the point where pretty much the only reason I’m still watching the show is in the hopes of an episode where things will turn around, but it seems more and more likely that the golden days of SU are past. In the meantime I’m just cringing whenever Steven walks onscreen. Excuse me for all the words.
Elitist Oars
Give me a break. You are talking as if the inconsistencies between how Steven thinks one should act and what Rose did, not to mention Rose’s various deceptions and hypocricies aren’t the POINT of those episodes, and thus you are treating one of the show’s greatest strengths as if it was a weakness.
Also Season 4’s 10 episodes so far contain had 2 of my all-time favorite greatest episodes in the whole series yes, Mindful Education and Last One Out of Beach City.
Kathleen
I think their point is it’s bad that they (spoiler) killed off the black coded character and treated them like the bad guy when they later admited they were right, by saying the white coded character did it.
Sarda
If a show presents a protagonist as the audience surrogate, then doesn’t properly signify when said protagonist is not in fact voicing the desired opinion, it is not the fault of the audience for misinterpreting the intent of the episode.
This is why the Doctor Who episode Voyage of the Damned turned many viewers off by essentially presenting The Doctor as a messiah/god none-too-subtly. Though the overarcing theme of the tenth Doctor (and that season in particular) was his tendency to think himself better than everyone else, and his final episodes (especially The Waters of Mars) were built around beating that out of him, it took a rather long time to get to that point and not everyone realized that Voyage of the Damned was not saying
“I am the Doctor, and I am a god”
but rather
“The Doctor has fallen so far to vanity that he thinks himself a god”
Pat
“If a show presents a protagonist as the audience surrogate, then doesn’t properly signify when said protagonist is not in fact voicing the desired opinion, it is not the fault of the audience for misinterpreting the intent of the episode.”
The episodes about Steven learning that Rose did questionable things are all about his image of her cracking, though. That is what he voices.
Plus we know very little about what Rose did. Bismuth was specifically interested in killing. Not being willing to kill if necessary, but intentionally killing–even though for Gems that’s more difficult than incapacitation. Her plan was to be less effective of a fighter as long as she got to kill; that’s not the same thing.
Remember that all of the Crystal Gems except Steven–so including herself–were with the bad guys first.
Also she turned tried to murder an ally that argued with her. It’s implied she did so twice.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Yeah, I just can’t help but read the combination of the “Don’t fight hate with hate” message with punishing a black-coded character as vilification of BLM.
Fata Morgana
I… find that a super odd interpretation. Mostly because, BLM *does not* fight with hate. BLM has actual proposed solutions from societal problems. I consider myself a member of BLM, if a lose organization of activists can have a membership. BLM doesn’t fight with hate at all. BLM doesn’t fight with murder. BLM fights with *truth*.
Making a scene where a character tries to promote murder as the only solution into an allegory for BLM strikes me as really, really gross and something that could only go on in the minds of people who don’t understand what BLM is (like my racist parents).
I also am pretty grossed out by people calling characters “black coded” because they have black voice actors. I mean, your interpretations of characters are up to you, of course, but saying, “I dislike this character, therefore they are *black*.” seems super shitty. Jasper, for example, reads absolutely as white to me. I don’t care what skin color her voice actor is. If white actors can play black and Asian characters, black voice actors can play white characters. (And I’ve watched shows where black actors did Asian voices as well. It’s voice acting, your ethnicity need not match the character’s ethnicity if you have flexible skills). Jasper is coded white to me. Bismuth feels coded black, but that’s because she has dreads and she’s not doing anything special with her delivery to make it “sound” white (Jasper is doing a particular voice, IMO).
Anyway, all this does feel like a confirmation that it’s the fans that are messed up, not the show.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
You should – SU is a great series thus far. As a bi/lesbian mother, it is really neat to be able to show my child a TV show with positive lesbian characters. Plus general good writing, good characters, and a love for both Eastern and Western animation.
LazarusLong
as the Gems come from a race/species that only has one gender. I’m not sure the labels Bi or lesbian would apply as they would not have a concept of the dichotomy of a dual sexed species prior to their arrival on earth.
just sayin.
BBCC
The writers have said ‘non-binary, femme presenting lesbians’ was a good earth descriptor for two of them.
Just sayin.
Baf
Yeah, it doesn’t really describe Garnet. She’s one of the most binary characters I’ve ever seen.
BBCC
The characters are Ruby and Sapphire, so that’s a little ironic!
Pablo360
I saw what you did there with my Future Vision(R)
Deanatay
What do lesbians have to do with DBZ?
Just Saiyan.
Pablo360
Fusion.
Ana Chronistic
…HOTTEST SEX TAPE EVAR
will they fuse, tell me they fuse
Mr. Mendo
Kiss her you fool!
Plasma Mongoose
Where tho?
Mr. Mendo
Well, they’re in a bar, already.
Foxhack
IN THE LIPS, WHERE ELSE
AND NO THERE IS NO DOUBLE ENTENDRE TO THAT I SWEAR
Mr. Mendo
Ha! Yoga Hosers FTW! ^_^
TheAnonymousGuy
Me: Someone cue Sabastian!
Assistant: Which one?
Me: The Little Mermaid!
Architex
“I’ll be Rose and you can be Peridot”
Madock345
That’s not a ship I’ve seen before.
Doctor_Who
There’s a ship I haven’t heard of, but I’m down.
Scoops