310

Cornered
Posted on April 1, 2025 by David M Willis

310 thoughts on “Cornered”

  1. butts

    it took a few tries

    1. Michael Steamweed

      Twas a tug of war there, for a while.

    2. anon

      lol i wonder if ruth would say the same/back joyce up if she was here tho

      1. Clif

        Ruth has said she would dump Jason and get back with Jennifer in a heartbeat. Or words to that effect. So, yeah.

      2. Decidedly Orthogonal

        Same question. Looks like DyW is setting us up to find out what happened. But slowly. Oh so slowly.

        How much (if at all) is Joyce stretching things?

        1. Decidedly Orthogonal

          (See her side-eye when saying Ms Billingsworth stopped drinking.)

        2. thejeff

          At this point, I’d be pissed if it turned out Jennifer’d been lying about not drinking. It’s been a long time with no evidence for the audience.

          If she had a relapse during the timeskip, that’s one thing, but if she’s been back to it this semester? I can’t see it.

    3. Sofia

      “You taught me how to pick locks, remember?”

  2. NGPZ

    re: alt text,

    IM DEAD XD

    1. Opus the Poet

      “I’m not dead yet!”

      1. Clif

        I’m not planning on being dead. I’ll die before I’m dead!

        No, wait.

      2. Proxiehunter

        I can dane and I can sing.

        1. Clif

          But can you dane to sing?

        2. Needfuldoer

          About the moon-a and the June-a and the spring-a?

        3. clif

          I hear the spring-a spring-a spring-a can make you sing-a.

        4. Casi

          can you do a highland fling?

        5. clif

          We can do a highland fling,
          We can even dane to sing,
          We can do a spring-a spring,
          We can do most anything.

        6. Steamweed

          Take caution paying the dane, or you will always pay the dane!

          (or something to that shakespearean effect)

    2. Amós Batista

      Damn you, Willis. You caught us again.

    3. anon

      i’m surprised billie fully walked off as opposed to like staying in the area even if she can’t necessarily eavesdrop unless joe went with her while joyce is trying to convince alice to give her another chance

  3. Marsh Maryrose

    She did not let it go

    1. Rose by Any other Name

      Not a single ice castle in sight. I am disappoint.

      1. Michael Steamweed

        What about talking snowmen?

        1. Clif

          Nobody here but us trolls.

        2. Steamweed

          Those little guys are great to have at parties! They rock out! Get stoned!

  4. IntangibleMatter

    I’m honestly not even sure where the toxic yuriometer is sitting at this point. Is this heading towards wholesome yuri? Even more toxic yuri? I’m lost

    1. Nono

      We haven’t hit the possibility of a Jennifer/Ruth/Alice relationship yet so it’s not in toxic swamp territory yet.

      1. Deanatay

        RuthAliss? Do we know Alice’s last name? We need it for reasons.

        1. RassilonTDavros

          Don’t believe it’s been stated in DoA canon, but in the Walkyverse it’s Chen okay yeah, it’s definitely also Chen in the Dumbiverse, going by the tags on this Tumblr post

        2. ZenArcticFox

          Ruthaliss-ness, have mercy on ourselves.

      2. Lysbeth

        ALIFERRUTH OT3

    2. AGV/Ruby

      It’s modern Chernobyl levels of yuri

      1. IntangibleMatter

        Nature is reclaiming the yuri

        1. NGPZ

          Chernobyl thinks it’s all that, the world’s oldest nuclear reactor has it beat by two billion years ^^

        2. RassilonTDavros

          …is there a reference I’m missing?

        3. NGPZ

          https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reactor

        4. StClair

          and then there’s Sol, of course.

        5. Sharizard

          We’d have to move that for it to be a part of Earth’s natural nuclear reactors. I’ll get the winch.

        6. clif

          it would have to be one wicked winch.

          Maybe if you used the wicked winch of the East and the wicked winch of the West in tandem.

        7. Casi

          nah, that’d just create opposing forces canceling out the movement, gotta use all the winches of eastwick together

    3. peng

      binaries have no place in yuri

      1. Proxiehunter

        I think binary is pretty important to robot yuri.

        1. Taffy

          Not if they’re alien robots that run off a much different kind of math.

        2. Clif

          You can’t just willy nilly run off with a different type of math. You have to woo it. Seduce it with the axiom of choice.

        3. Proxiehunter

          Or a bucket of fried chicken.

        4. Taffy

          Alice: “We both got buckets of chicken. Wanna do it?”
          Ruth: “Eh. Okay.”

        5. Steamweed

          Not the worst come-on she’s heard.

        6. jflb96

          Seems like a weird way to make your electronics more complicated, but OK

        7. Niklarean

          I could see an argument for trinary with Yes, No, Unknown.

        8. Taffy

          I’m not doing it, the fuckin’ aliens are. Y’know, space aliens, life from other planets? Nobody’s complicating Earth electronics, the aliens would be thinking differently from humans. This is like saying “why don’t French guys just speak Italian? They’re making Italian conversations more complicated.”

        9. clif

          I don’t mind. It’s all Greek to me.

        10. jflb96

          Sorry, I’m assuming that these space aliens from space are using the same laws of physics as us, and have derived the same rules for electronics as us, so they’re incentivised towards the same components and architectures as us. As far as I’m aware, the simplest way to store data is with 1s and 0s, however you choose to represent them.

        11. yak

          Ternary has been used before to make computers (see the Setun). Supposedly it has some advantages.
          afaik it was a lot more practical (along with base-10) back when computers were mostly electromechanical and transistors were brand new tech.

      2. Arianod

        Only yaoi deals in binaries

  5. Chaucer59

    Surprising depth of understanding from Joyce. Kudos.

    1. Michael Steamweed

      She’s becoming a good romance detective. Jamie (GWS) would be proud.

      1. Yarrr

        GWS mention!! I loved that comic.

      2. Jo_cubstar

        One of my fave comics, ever. Still follow Danielle

    2. Clif

      This.

  6. Nono

    Joyce do not encourage these disaster lesbians to get back together

    1. Nono

      Whoops, I should have said disaster sapphics. Since they’re both bi.

      1. Rose by Any other Name

        I don’t think ‘disaster’ in this context means what you think it means.
        A disaster lesbian (or sapphic) is one who becomes flustered while attempting to speak with their crush. See Becky around Dina early on for many examples.

        1. Casi

          I’m pretty sure you’re referring to “useless lesbian/sapphic” not “disaster lesbian” because disaster is almost always used to describe someone who is messed up pretty bad in some way in their life, usually mentally/emotionally, which definitely applies to both Jennifer and Alice here.

        2. Pocky

          so what do you do if you’re a girl failure, and a useless lesbian?

        3. Taffy

          Date other women without realizing it, mostly.

        4. Clif

          The comment section is so educational.

        5. TGS

          Is… is that not what Joyce and Dotty have been doing?

        6. Sillygoose

          I’d go with Carla and Charlie

        7. Li

          @TGS kinda-sorta, definitely flirting without knowing.

          On my last archive dive I noticed particularly:

          – Dorothy offering to pretend to be Joyce’s girlfriend for the pharmacist seemed kinda subconsciously hopeful on her part
          – Dorothy’s choice of Halloween costume. She initially tells Joyce only that she’ll dress up if she has time, and that “if all else fails” she still has the orange sweater she last used to go as Velma. She then shows up not only in the orange sweater but also a short skirt and having dyed her hair to better fit the part. And Willis made sure to remind us that the last time Dorothy wore this costume, Danny asked her out. With an eye towards the recent reveal, it becomes p obvious that Dorothy is hoping Joyce will notice her costume and think she’s pretty in it (she immediately asks where Joyce is when she shows up to the party, for example).

          @Sillygoose: that’s just Carla, Charlie seemed sure they were girlfriends (or at least as sure as Charlie probably is about anything ever).

        8. Rose by Any other Name

          I am confusing nothing. Disaster Lesbian has always meant the definition I provided above. Useless Lesbians is the trope by which disaster lesbians interact.

          That said, calling someone a ‘disaster’ independently does seem to mean the same as hot mess, so there might be some slang drift going on.

        9. Koname

          Yes, Disaster and Hot Mess are synonymous in the zeitgeist. Its just that Jen and Ruth got into an actual disaster and now the sayings are as confused as Jen is.

        10. Yumi

          Disaster lesbian and disaster bisexual have definitely come to be used in the manner in which Nono was using it. Not to the point where it isn’t also used how you said (which was first)– but it has expanded.

      2. Animedingo

        Disapphsters

        1. Michael Steamweed

          Pretty good! I’m-a yoink it for my writing! 🙂

        2. Clif

          Here, have a spare Internet.

        3. Thing2

          disaphsters. Awesome.

        4. Thing2

          2ps, oops

        5. Ace

          Bisasters

    2. Thag Simmons

      Do it Joyce, I want more Alice

      1. Taffy

        525600% more Alice.

    3. AlexaSpuds

      Don’t listen to him Joyce, I desperately need my formerly-toxic power couple back!!!

  7. Sirksome

    Yes! I like Joyce’s interpretation of that.

  8. mindbleach

    Panel two, top bubble: yes!

    Panel two, bottom bubble: … listen.

  9. Doctor_Who

    Go ask Alice when she’s six inches tall.

    1. Sirksome

      Remember what the nerd mouse said!

      1. Cholma

        Feed your head (but keep the different food types separate)?

      2. Opus the Poet

        Feed your Fred head.

  10. Rose by Any other Name

    Joyce: I mean, since then, she’s been back to blowing up relationships herself. But I don’t think anyone really bought her and Asher, so that one hardly counts.

    1. DailyBrad

      I honestly would hardly count that one. She was shitty about how she conducted the end, but it was a pretty short-term relationship that petered out. That’s one of the more typical things she could really go through as an 18-19 year old.

      1. Sirksome

        Did people like Asher and Jennifer? Cause I never believed in it even as I was coming around to the idea Asher might actually have cared about her. He was just too untrustworthy. I don’t think Asher and Ethan is going to end well either but I could be wrong.

        1. Clif

          Asher will never measure up to the memory of Mike.

        2. Thag Simmons

          I think Asher was pretty sincere about it, but it was pretty clearly a rebound relationship for Jennifer

        3. GholaHalleck

          It was less about liking them together, and more that Jennifer torpedoed a relationship that seemed to bring her stability, and Asher actually DID seem to care about her.

          Her spiraling is a fun motive, but still an utterly dick move that she’s taken no responsibly for.

          She a squirrel with it’s tail on fire, jumping from one situationship tree to another, while blaming the trees for catching fire. She’s the one who lit it on fire, and she only seems to care about the tree when it’s burning down around her.

          Afterword, she just hops into a new tree, while still on fire, and starts it all over again. Until she can put her tail out, she’s doomed.

        4. Sirksome

          It’s a difficult relationship to get behind though. I do think Jennifer treated Asher unfairly but he wasn’t honest with her so it kind of evened out. He never told her about his family connections or took responsibility for his part in putting her friends in danger. It’s hard to side with him when he’s also lying by omission. Like would he even be with Ethan right now if he told him the truth?

          So to me they were both problematic. I do believe he cared but what does that really mean if you weren’t really being vulnerable yourself? He also jumped to Ethan very quickly when he knew it was over. Probably justified but he wasn’t losing any sleep about it.

        5. DinaJoyce

          If I remember correctly, Amber told Ethan the truth, or at least part of it, so they might still be together even if Asher told him.

        6. TerribleTransit

          Amber told Ethan about Asher’s role in the convenience store hostage situation. No one else knows about his involvement with the kidnapping at college, but it’s hard to say if Ethan would care about it if he did.

        7. GholaHalleck

          I don’t really have to get behind a relationship to respect it as a relationship. And I get that the plot need conflict, but the failure of this one is because one person is willfully torpedoing it, and now we’re probably getting the “Golden Child Excuse Speech” and I hate those.

          Its weird that I don’t really care that Asher has mob ties. He seems to not *want* to be a part of that life, and the only real thing we’ve seen him do is have Bliane shot. Which is a net win for the universe.

          He’s also not a moron, and said girlfriend was a reporter for the paper who was constantly looking for juicy stories, while also belittling him and his mostly reliable mental stability.

          As for moving fast with Ethan, He DID waffle for a while, until Billie basically said “Nah go smooch a dude it’s cool, it doesn’t count if you’re gaying it up, you loser”and Ethan stuck his tongue down his throat and said it was cool if they were just fuck buddies.

          But then Ethan is a goober who can’t *actually* do fuck buddies, and Asher actually seems to give a damn about the people he’s banging…

        8. Tofusmith

          You’re forgetting that Asher helped out Blaine, because his family asked him to. That’s something Ethan would never get over if he knew

        9. Vegetalss4

          I don’t remember Ashers family asking him that, I thought Blaine implied-blackmailed Asher on his own.

          Do you remember when we learned that?

        10. thejeff

          We didn’t learn that. Blaine blackmailed him and Asher was somehow involved in getting rid of Blaine afterwards.

          Unless they meant helped Blaine out of this life. 🙂

        11. Thag Simmons

          Yeah, Blaine was only able to secure Asher’s support because Asher has (or had, at least) things he very much does not want his gramps to know about.

          Not a chance Blaine got actual mob support for his dumbfuck plan. If he’d taken the idea to gramps he’d probably have gotten whacked right then and there.

        12. Sirksome

          To be fair to Asher I legit forgot that he actually told her about the kiss, but I went back and yeah you were right. He was trying to at least do right by Jennifer before moving on. I just remembered the kiss.

        13. Thag Simmons

          That Asher has a motorcycle after it’s established that the only reason Sal was allowed to have hers is because a family member pulled strings is ominous. He’s not as out as he wanted to be.

          I do buy that he doesn’t want to be a mobster and that he wants out, I’m just not sure he has what it takes to actually get out.

        14. Charles Phipps

          Asher stole money from the mob to go to college, presumably to find a legitimate job.

        15. Thag Simmons

          Yeah, my suspicion is that after he got blackmailed about that he did something to prevent that from happening again

          I used to think he just came clean, but relying on your mob boss grandpa to forgive stealing college tuition levels of cash is a pretty risky play even if you return it, so I’m leaning towards him throwing Blaine under the bus and framing him for his thefts.

          Asher’s motorbike is definitely a sign that he’s closer to the mob now than he was back before the incident.

        16. Finep

          It was precisely underclassmen who couldn’t, …

        17. Astariel

          Asher did tell her about his family connections.

          https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/paperover/

        18. Sirksome

          The word use there is conveniently vague. Come to think of it a lot of stuff surrounding Asher has pretty convenient justifications?…..But I’ll give it to him. He could’ve told his friends and then girlfriend that his family is associated with some sort of organized crime sure. You win this time Asher!

        19. thejeff

          “My dad’s powerful too” is kind of a weird response to actually knowing his dad’s a mob boss.

        20. Li

          I mean, sure, but at the same time?

          I don’t think the framing of the whole sequence really favors the idea that Asher was keeping anything from Jennifer (“…why wouldn’t she know?” with his eyebrows lifted suggests genuine surprise rather than an excellent liar, imho), and in the next strip Sal asserts that she knows Asher isn’t a safe person to be around because she isn’t either, which is described in-universe by Carl as a parting shot that’s somewhat undercut by her very safe bike helmet as she pedals away from the group. It all feels like subverting expectations wrt a dramatic story beat, rather than an ACTUAL dramatic story beat.

          Besides, at this point, Jennifer is just about the least interesting character who could possibly find out about Asher’s very minimal involvement with the kidnapping plot (and as a reminder, all he did was pull the fire alarm that got everyone outside).

          Never mind that he was threatened into doing even that much, or that he wanted assurances that no one was going to get seriously hurt (see the strip that follows the linked one), or that he still hesitated to cooperate (see the very moody panel of him that formed part of the final strip for this storyline).

          Jennifer just… had so little to do with the kidnapping. She wasn’t one of the kids Blaine abducted, and of the kids who were, she’s really only at all close to Walky and Joyce.

          There’s better dramatic potential with Ethan, but only really because we don’t totally know the full sequence of events surrounding Blaine’s death; only that someone, presumably the corrupt cop who shot Blaine, texted Asher afterward to tell him “It’s done”. So there’s a shoe there that hasn’t dropped yet.

          Even if I personally think it’s easy to assume that Asher got involved to whatever extent he got involved because Blaine misled him about what he was helping him to do wrt the kidnapping, and maybe even because he later found out that Blaine had killed a kid…? There’s still all sorts of possibilities to explore, including whether or not Asher had to get more involved with the family business in order to receive that text.

        21. Li

          But like, what would Jennifer say if she was the one to find out? It’s not like she can dump him again, they’ve already broken up. It’s not like she and Blaine have have interesting history.

          Amber or Amazi-Girl are really the best people to react to news that someone she knows pulled the fire alarm that night, followed by Joyce and Becky and Dorothy, but none of them are particularly well-acquainted with Asher, so they’re unlikely to feel betrayed on a very personal level.

          Ethan is a better prospect for feeling betrayed by Asher, but much less directly impacted by the kidnapping itself, but also… he might just not, both because of the mitigating circumstances I glossed over above, and because he actively sought out the opportunity to “fuck his trauma”, as I think Amber put it. Even though I think there’s a lot of affection between them now, I’m not sure there’s the type of deep trust that makes betrayal sting…

        22. Savail

          This squirrel analogy is an amazing mental image.

        23. DashWallkick

          Jennifer wasn’t serious about it. She was rebounding because she was angry about Ruth and wanted to throw her happiness in Ruth’s face. That’s why she befriended Raidah in the first place.

  11. Taffy

    “I think she’s dating a bartender now. It’s very confusing.”

    1. MeghanTheDreamCrusher

      Former T.A./ Former bartender/ Current T.A. I believe

      1. Taffy

        The confusing part is that Jason’s a dude. Joyce had trouble wrapping her head around that.

        1. GholaHalleck

          He *does* have willowy hips.

        2. Taffy

          Me when I’m trying to identify the genus my dryad boyfriend resembles.

  12. Newlland(Henryvolt)

    Then I guess Jennifer once did to Alice what a certain significant other did to her.

    1. Taffy

      Who drove Billie into a tree?

      1. John Campbell

        Billie.

        1. Taffy

          Right, but who else?

        2. Sirksome

          The shitty break system of a 2012 Jeep Liberty?

        3. Taffy

          Jeeps aren’t people. They can’t even vote.

        4. Clif

          I understand that Tesla smart cars will be able to.

        5. John Campbell

          That’s not what they mean when they say, “Elon Musk’s drones will control the government.”

        6. Thing2

          Only if they vote for who they were programmed to vote for…

        7. clif

          So just like people then?

      2. Newlland(Henryvolt)

        I’m not referring to the near death experience, I think her and Alice might of had a conversation afterwards that led to one cutting off the other.

        1. Taffy

          Yes, I understood that to begin with. It was funnier to take it the direction I took it.

        2. thejeff

          I think it’s more about their entire relationship before that. Alice in love with Jennifer. Them having sex, but Jennifer not being willing to treat it as a real relationship and instead doubling down on the destructive behavior – heavy partying, drunken sex with boys.

        3. Li

          I doubt it, honestly, because Jennifer seemed genuinely shocked by how upset Alice was to see her. It sounds much more like Alice slowly went no-contact with her without any type of confrontation after the accident.

  13. DailyBrad

    God, this look is working for Alice, honestly.

    But yeah, none of what Joyce is saying is wrong, exactly. Billie tried to make it work and I think *had* already begun not drinking, and probably therapy, but it was in the early stages. Ruth did dump her, though, for not entirely unrelated reasons that Alice walked away from Billie, even if a lot of it was focused on her own toxicity.

    1. Taffy

      I’m trying to come up with more varied ways to say “Dear Santa Christ, please give me an Alice for Christmas. I’ve been ever so good and she’s ever so attractive.”

      1. Steamweed

        “Thank you for calling the Santa Christ Horniness and Thirstiness department. Your beseeching is important to us. We are currently experiencing a higher-than-usual volume of calls. Your current estimated wait time is…three hours, forty-two minutes.”

        1. clif

          !,, in DOA time.

    2. anon

      yeah the lipstick is nice, ican imagine it being hard to find gray (silver?) lipstick, other than something matted, i feel like if you googled ‘silver/gray’ lipstick to buy it’d end up too sparkly, which isn’t bad but prolly not for everyone

      i wonder how much joyce knew of the ‘lesbian suicde pact’ part of it tho

      1. Taffy

        The lipstick is like a name engraved in cursive onto the side of a bullet.

        1. clif

          In all the bullets in all the guns in the world, why was her name in cursive engraved in lipstick onto the side of mine?

        2. clif

          Silver gray lipstick, dammit.

        3. Taffy

          All this talk of lipstick and bullets makes me wanna play Bayonetta one more time.

        4. clif

          Does Bayonetta have bullet time?

          I wonder how bullet time and lipstick time would compare.

        5. Taffy

          Sort of, actually. She has Witch Time, activated after a successful dodge. It slows time while she moves like normal, so she can get in extra hits during a fight.

    3. Charles Phipps

      Goth and punk fan that I am, she is very pretty.

      Joyce and she should date.

      🙂

      Or Dorothy/Alice.

    4. Li

      No, Ruth dumped Jennifer because she was afraid that one day she’d slide back into the depressive state that had once made her okay with both of them self-destructing together, and she thought dumping Jennifer was the only way to save her from it.

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/happiest-2/

      (cw: suicidal feelings)

      There was no “because of toxicity”, not because of Jennifer’s alleged toxicity or because of Ruth’s. It was purely Ruth being (arguably rationally) afraid for Jennifer’s safety.

  14. Peppeppeia

    So just to be clear, Joyce is talking about Ruth, but maybe Alice thinks Joyce knows more about Jennifer’s past and thinks Joyce is talking about Alice?

    1. Taffy

      That’d be an interesting angle, for sure.

    2. HueSatLight

      That’s my first read too. Maybe it’s just Alice seeing the similarities. Either way, it feels to me like an accidental guilt trip. What Joyce is saying is important for Jennifer to hear, for Alice it’s fine for her to have moved on. It’s fine for her to incorrectly think that Billie can’t change.

    3. Bryy

      oh fuck.

      So Joyce DOUBLE fucked up.

    4. anon

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/05-this-was-halloween/premeditated/ i assume joyce heard this even if it just seemed flippant said by jen, idk if she could objectively say this is good

      tho given that she looked away i feel like it’d be obvious to her that she was talking about a diff person versus making eye contact with alice and implying something

    5. Thag Simmons

      I think there’s enough context for Alice to assume Joyce is talking about someone Jennifer dated at college, but I guess it’s possible.

    6. DashWallkick

      I think it’s more likely that Alice wishes that were her because she still is a little hung up on Jennifer. I imagine it’s hard to top the girlfriend who did something literally illegal to protect you, then bombed a ceremony all about herself just because she cared about you. Jennifer is selfish in some ways, but so so selfless in others.

    7. TerribleTransit

      Alice knows it’s not her. Jennifer clearly gave up on her. They didn’t talk all summer, she didn’t try and follow up with Alice after their flight early in the year. It is very, painfully obvious she’s not the person in question.

      However. If Jennifer has indeed learned to love like that, maybe… just maybe… it could be her next time, and they could actually have the relationship Alice thought they might have had in high school.

      1. thejeff

        From her first appearance, it was Alice who cut Jennifer off after the crash. For her own safety.

        And now Jennifer is trying to reconnect.

      2. Charles Phipps

        Alice ghosted Jennifer not the reverse.

        And for good reason but it led to Jennifer sliding into alcoholism (and she was already a heavy drinker)

        1. Jaqqqln

          Blaming Alice for Billie becoming an alcoholic without any evidence to back that up, and there being ONLY evidence that serves to show she was already an alcoholic beforehand. Cool

      3. HueSatLight

        I’m seeing the parallels https://www.dumbingofage.com/pettyselfish/

    8. Leadsynth

      Yeah, Alice’s expression in the last panel looks to me like Joyce is calling out Alice for letting go.

  15. Tim C.

    I maintain my belief that Joyce is a Paladin.

    1. Zor

      All Charisma, no Wisdom baybeeee! 😀

      1. TGS

        All riz, no wis. That should be on my next pally t-shirt.

  16. Animedingo

    Was that relationship healthy tho?

    1. Taffy

      Why’s everyone on this website so obsessed with what is or isn’t “healthy”? It was hot and cute, which are the more important factors in matters of the heart.

      1. Jeremiah

        It is an issue with fandom in general.

        1. Taffy

          Bongos over here with their health talk, like it’s a relationship and kale smoothie.

        2. Mr. Random

          Because DoA is a lot more “grounded”.
          If this was more wacky like in the Walkyverse, you could probably just do “that’s cute” or “that’s hot” and ignore the rest.
          But since Willis seems to enjoy exploring more nuance in things over the past couple decades, it becomes more reasonable to want something for the characters that’s not going to hurt them long-term.

          At least, that’s my interpretation.

        3. Taffy

          Sure, but it’s ridiculous to turn every character interaction into a white room with no doors or windows and a big HP bar on the ceiling to display how healthy it all is.

        4. Mr. Random

          True, but equally so to completely ignore it all the time.
          Sometimes a gag is a gag, and sometimes a talk is supposed to be taken more seriously.
          And not everyone is going to have the same preferences for the balance in a work.

        5. Taffy

          I thought another person was saying this at first. Why would you change your icon, that’s so confusing.

        6. Mr. Random

          I swear I don’t do it on purpose.
          I jump between a few different devices over the day and it looks like each has their own gravatar depending on if I’m on my phone, laptop, etc.
          I don’t have a set gravatar since…. I just never felt the need to get one.

        7. Taffy

          I still haven’t figured out how to use that service.

        8. Clif

          All this emphasis on health just isn’t healthy.

        9. Bogeywoman

          Taffy can have a little toxic Yuri, as a treat

        10. Taffy

          Sounds like an inch to me. Thanks for the mile.

      2. anon

        @taffy tbf, even if we can enjoy an ‘unhealthy’ relationship as an audience/reader, in the context of this strip, joyce is trying to frame it as a relationship that was ‘good’ for her/helped her grow, saying “oh yeah they were toxic as shit together” wouldn’t exactly convince alice of any change which is what is trying to be accomplished rn

        even becky did that ‘reverse psychology’ speech to keep them apart , kinda lol

        1. Taffy

          What are you getting at?

        2. GholaHalleck

          Joyce is trying to gloss over the plethora of Billie’s failings, and highlight her few positive changes, which helps no one and kills pants euphoria.

          Billie needs to break out of her bullshit, and Joyce trying to up sell her isn’t going to *actually* help Billie to get back to smooching hot ladies and or dudes.

        3. Embe13

          the support joyce is providing here may actually help Billie do just that, as to billie’s ears joyce is showing her that even after everything there is still someone in her corner, and someone who has noticed the changes that have happened. i actually see this as something Billie can grab hold of to help her continue to become a healthier and happier person.

          i don’t think joyce needs to even consider glossing over billies failings, as alice has know her longer, and is intimately aware of said failings. What alice needs (in joyces view) is to know what has happened since. that billie has changed.

        4. thejeff

          Thing is, it was unhealthy because they were both separately unhealthy, but it also was good for both of them and helped them grow.

          Both of them were in far better places near the end of the relationship than at the beginning and a lot of that was due to the support they gave each other.

          Despite how messed up it all was.

      3. HueSatLight

        It’s just like being underdressed in a snowstorm. healthy, no. cute, yes. hot, ok skip that one.

        1. Taffy

          I enjoy that image greatly.

        2. clif

          See, I thought you meant the mental image of HueSatLight underdressed in a snowstorm, but then I followed the link.

        3. Taffy

          Having no clue what they look like, I can only imagine Arnold and Sarah streaking in a blizzard.

        4. HueSatLight

          I’m the person hunched behind the shrubs with a camera and flip-flops.

        5. clif

          Ah. That makes sense.

          Someone has to record it for posterity.

          Posterity insists.

        6. HueSatLight

          Their posterities is what I’m aiming the camera at.

    2. DailyBrad

      Honestly, it seemed like it reached a decent point before Ruth got cold feet and set fire to it. I get *why* Ruth felt she had to do that, but Billie had already quit drinking before that even ended, I think, and Ruth seemed more convinced things would get dangerous again than having any clear evidence of a relapse on its way.

      So, it sort of depends on how you look at it. It was healthier than how it had began, but I hesitate to call it outright healthy when Ruth was as antsy as she was in anticipating collapse.

  17. darkoneko

    NOOOO no no nono

    1. Taffy

      I’m not sure what you’re “no”-ing here, but just to be clear. It’s not my wishful thinking that the final panel is Alice resolving to go find Billie and take her to clown town, right?

      1. GholaHalleck

        Alice deserves better. Or at least taller. Maybe one of the roller derby girls.

      2. Effie

        … Alice resolving to go find Billie and punch her in the nose.

        1. Taffy

          Just like Ruth used to. ?

  18. Jeremiah

    Now I imagine Jennifer as a fat girl. A Izutsumi from dungeon meshi style one. She WILL scratch your face off if you get too close.

    1. Jeremiah

      *cat girl

      1. sultryglebe

        That was one typo that was not intuitive.

      2. anon

        fat catgirl eared jen as the next pin up 8D;

        1. Taffy

          What is this, El Goonish Shive?

        2. Jeremiah

          That is also the first thing that came to mind.

        3. Taffy

          Giving that comic another try was a very good choice. I forget who linked it recently, but they did well. Last time I tried checking it out, the griffins were just being introduced and I had no idea what the fuck was going on so I gave up.

        4. Thag Simmons

          I feel like doing bonkerballs shit like lesbian griffins from another world is half the fun of an urban fantasy story

        5. Taffy

          It’s definitely interesting. At the time, I was a lot more critical of other people’s art, and the griffins put me off just based on appearance. I also had something against it being in black and white, even though I’ve consistently read Pixie Trix comics and Go Get a Roomie since I was like 16.

        6. Jeremiah

          This reminded me about this weird ass comment I saw on Tumblr about how hard was bad because Roomie and Lilliam ended up together instead of staying platonic life partner because they insist they both in the aroace spectrum and that it was bad that “everyone keep telling they were in love despite they denying it” or something like that. It was weird.

  19. Icalasari

    Joyce, you forgot that part of the other letting go was because therapy made it clear how toxic Billingsworth is

    1. Jeremiah

      That isn’t why Ruth leave her tho, it was specifically because she realized her OWN toxicity and how that got them in a suicidal pact and she found the thought of Jennifer dying because she is with her unacceptable and didn’t trust they current happiness was gonna last.

      1. DailyBrad

        Yeah, Ruth left Billie when she’d already been doing well, it’s that Ruth was wary of herself. Rightfully so, probably, given her method of dumping her was maybe the shittiest dumping we’ve seen in the comic to date, needlessly humiliating her at the halloween party. I genuinely do not know how Ruth rationalized this as necessary. Like, I can see why she’d knock her doorknob off, but not the timing.

        1. Jeremiah

          The timing was probably because she been putting it off for a while and thought if she didn’t do it then she might not do it at all.

    2. Bryy

      Yeah, Joyce doesn’t know a lot of the context for anything here.

      1. Clif

        And yet she’s right.

        Honestly I’m amazed she was paying that much attention.

    3. Shakes

      Ruth dumped Billie because she feared possibly hurting her irreparably while they were both at a low point, so she ended it with things were going great with the aim of doing less psychic damage.

      1. GholaHalleck

        I think Ruth wasn’t wrong either.

        Billie was still slipping, and Ruth was improving, but was ALSO losing her mood shifts that Billie seemed to thrive in.

        The more Ruth leveled out, and saw how destructive she was to herself, the more she saw how self destructive *Billie* was, and how they fed into each other.

        Billie romanticized their codependency, while Ruth wanted them to get better together. And the longer it went on, the more Ruth saw they couldn’t get better as a couple.

        If they couldn’t get better together, it was worth the heartache to give Billie the chance to get better even if it was without her.

        1. Shakes

          There was no sign of any of that during the Halloween flashback. They both seemed to be getting along better and Billie was even floating the idea of Ruth meeting her parents.

          The tragedy is Ruth was so afraid of hurting Billie she wouldn’t even give their relationship a chance, and she’s clearly been bitter about that mistake since.

        2. DashWallkick

          I wouldn’t say that. Keep in mind right before she talks to Dorothy, they were talking about Star Wars and Ruth — playfully — kept trying to remind her that she’s a nerd and Billie, who is *intensely* insecure about being “a weirdo”, dug in and got defensive about it.

          It’s not hard to see that Ruth saw that defensiveness was still there, even despite everything, and knew that one day her playful teasing was really going to send both of them into another spiral. Billie still doesn’t even think she’s gay! Imagine what Billie might do if Ruth provokes something *really* sensitive, like her abandonment issues, or Alice, or something!

        3. thejeff

          How was Jennifer still slipping at the time? They both still had their issues of course, but that was probably the healthiest Jennifer had been.

        4. Embe13

          she was showing signs of yoyoing, she was becoming more defensive, while also relaxing her self control. it is hard to say why it always felt like it to me, but it always felt to me that ruth could see that if they stayed together billie was very likely to relapse. ruth realized she truely loved billie and if leaving her was the best way to force billie to confront the slide. she would rather be without ruth but ruth be alive further on her journey to control of her addiction, than be together and risk Billie’s long term health. yes billie was healthier than she’d been but it was fragile, and ruth new that the best way to get billie to continue to beat her addiction was spite. and 3-4 month later is the strip we have billie continuing to be sober and nonsuicidal.

        5. GholaHalleck

          Basically this yeah. Ruth saw Billie was back sliding because “things were better now” so she didn’t feel need to be as vigilant, and was still sneaking booze until very close to Halloween.

          Billie was happier and less self destructive, but she wasn’t taking the need for change seriously and refused to see those changes as the new norm. Instead of “Just drying out until I can better handle my alcohol” she needed to realize “I’m an alcoholic and can’t drink anymore.” and Ruth didn’t have the gas to drive Billie to where she needed to go.

        6. thejeff

          Billie was still drinking until close to Halloween. Once she actually stopped – after the reconciliation following their last fight here, there’s no evidence she drank again – at least until after the breakup.
          That wasn’t long ~2 weeks, most of it in the timeskip, but I don’t think this makes any sense. And you can’t really talk about backsliding if you’re talking about before then, since she hadn’t made any effort to get sober.

  20. Amós Batista

    It took a while, but Joyce get what’s going on…

  21. Mr. Random

    I know this is serious stuff, but…
    These characters are 18/19.
    They’re sounding like they’re in their 30s and dealing with MUCH more stuff here.

    1. anon

      i mean a lot can happen in your early 20s in college, but some of this stuff ppl aren’t necessarily better equipped with to deal with in their 30s either

      1. Clif

        With what’s happened with these characters, from parental abductions to life changing metamorphosis to first relationships, how MUCH more stuff do you think they should deal with. To them it’s fairly serious. What sounds like they’re in their ’30s???

        1. GholaHalleck

          Considering what might happen during the protest-in-background going on? We shouldn’t be tossing those Apollo dodge-balls about how much more stuff they can go through.

    2. Jeremiah

      I don’t understand what you mean.

      1. Clif

        Mr. Random thinks they sound like they are in their 30’s. Maybe because they have a college level vocabulary?

        Maybe it was just a random comment.

        1. Mr. Random

          It’s more that the way they’re talking is like Alice and Jennifer/Billie had a long-term situation where they weren’t accepting of emotions for years and years, and they’re not reconnecting after almost a decade of separation.

          I understand it’s deeply intense for the characters in the situation, but I’m reminded a bit of The Little Mermaid.

          When you’re a kid, you hear Ariel say “but daddy, I love him!” And you think it’s a powerful message about caring and going against authority with the power of love to self-determine.
          But as an adult… “she’s 16 and hasn’t even had a conversation with the man. And now she’s willing to literally throw out most of her family and friends just for a chance to see him…”

          In that same vein, Alice is talking as if Jennifer’s reaction was a consistent pattern of apathy and not just childish. It DEFINITELY is valid to be hurt by it, and to still be hurt by it… several months afterwards, but the language she’s using makes it seem, at least to me, as if they were in a much more mature relationship that Jennifer bailed on and it’s been years since.

          Seriously, it’s only been like 6 months since they graduated high school.

        2. thejeff

          I mean, they likely knew each other throughout at least high school and it was probably that weird sexual not-relationship thing for a not insignificant part of that. There is history there.

          And it only being 6 months ago just means the pain is fresher.

        3. anon

          @clif well it is written by someone older that has two kids by now but i’d think a lot of middle aged ppl can still write younger charas versus them being like middle school drama focused lol, plus with actual therapy and stuff i’m sure there’s references/anecdotes they can get from their other artist acquaintances

    3. yak

      Nah, they sound like they’re 18/19.

      I think people pretty much stop maturing when they are around 21-25 and the only difference is that they become more worn down by the passage of time.

    4. DashWallkick

      It’s melodrama, man. You have to let yourself get caught up in the emotions because this is how important it feels for them.

      1. Mr. Random

        I normally do.
        I’ve been reading since like Year 2 of DoA.
        Just… something in how they were talking broke my suspension for a bit.

        1. DashWallkick

          It is a little on the other side of Shakespeare, yeah.

    5. Alan in DC

      It doesn’t hurt that they are fictional actors

  22. BBCC

    Sometimes we run out of rope to grab at and have to let go before we get pulled down too, Alice.

  23. Freezer

    “But then she went right back to the ‘cornered cat’ thing,” Joyce tactfully left out.

  24. AGV/Ruby

    I know that Jennifer has left the scene, but to me she’s in the background of all this and she’s looking like this:
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTujgbETp_0rNRgfZh3khpcCyzv4qyQ_MP0Qg&s

  25. Lingo

    Alice sighs. “Okay. It is my duty then, as a hot person, to go make out with Billie right now.”

    (This one’s for Taffy.)

    1. clif

      For Taffy?

      What about the rest of us?

      1. Taffy

        You get what’s left when I’m done with the plate.

        1. clif

          So thats what they meant by sloppy seconds.

    2. Taffy

      “Legally and morally, I’m free to do as I wish. Impulsively and with whatever excuse I can come up with, I’m afraid I’ll have to track her down and shove my tongue down her throat. Oh well, them’s the brakes, what can ya do, my hands are (and hopefully will be) tied.”

      “You make a good point.”

      1. Steamweed

        Why isn’t this very thing showing up in my Slipshine account _right now_?!

        1. Taffy

          Cowardice, in short. They stopped returning my emails due to “excessively porny and psychedelic fanfiction”.

        2. clif

          Just imagine if there was an archive for excessively porny and psychedelic fanfiction.

        3. Steamweed

          Such an archive should be our own.

  26. Victor Riley

    Well, she was in the process of “destroying herself” at the time, but THEN the other one left… which was probably the right thing to do, come to think of it.

    1. Freezer

      Billifer didn’t, and still doesn’t, see it that way.

    2. thejeff

      Except she wasn’t in the process of destroying herself at the time. Not by the end. Not when Ruth broke up with her.
      They were probably in the best shape they’d been in. Ruth was happy with it.
      But she thought it was inevitable and couldn’t bear the thought of dragging Jennifer down with her and thought Jennifer was in a good enough place to survive it if they broke up now.
      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/05-this-was-halloween/happiest-2/

  27. Kyulen

    Joyce makes some good points, but at this point I’m still not convinced that Alice and Jennifer would be good for each other.

    1. Tessea

      Jennifer may not be looking for a relationship. I think she just wants her friend to forgive her.

      1. Zaxares

        It’s also not known at this time if Jennifer reciprocated Alice’s feelings. It’s entirely possible that she saw Alice only as a friend, yes.

        1. thejeff

          A hot friend she occasionally had sex with, like straight girls do with their female friends.

    2. Thag Simmons

      They’d almost certainly be a terrible idea, Alice has been keeping her distance for very good reasons.

      But every reason it’d be a bad unhealthy is a reason it’d be dramatic as a narrative beat.

  28. Armadillo

    All of this is true while completely failing to convince me that Jennifer is capable of healthy/stable relationships.

    1. Jeremiah

      Everyone is capable of it to some extend, it’s a matter if they put in the effort to archive it.

      1. clif

        Even I managed to archive my extend and started losing weight.

  29. Mr.Morningstar

    Sure, but to be fair Joyce, Ruth and Jennifer were horribly co-dependent.

    But she did quit drinking so there is that.

    1. Steamweed

      A very significant and valid mark of progress!

      1. clif

        Joyce, Ruth and Jennifer were horribly co-dependent?

        You skip a few strips and you miss all the good parts.

  30. Vukodlak

    Was… was Alice in love with Jennifer?

    1. Jeremiah

      Yes? She explicitly said it the first they interacted.

    2. Thag Simmons

      Yeah, there’s some evidence for that

    3. DashWallkick

      I mean, she literally said she was, so, most likely!

      1. Daibhid C

        If there’s one thing I’ve learned from these comments, it’s that characters in the strip explicitly describing their emotions and motivations should never be considered evidence of anything.

        1. thejeff

          It’s not a guarantee. People do lie or misunderstand their own intent.
          But in most cases, it’s at least evidence, though it can be outweighed by other evidence.

        2. DashWallkick

          The fact that she looked like she was crying while she told Billie to her face that she’s too dangerous to be around kinda hints she’s sincere in her own way.

        3. Vukodlak

          Look there is friendship love and there is romantic love. My previous impression was friendship love.

        4. clif

          Friendship love which has included making out, as one does.

    4. Steamweed

      Yup. And humans mostly don’t lose the love they have for people, quickly, so much, as they convert it to other feelings. The intensity stays for a long time, and slowly builds down. Billie / Jennifer still makes Alice _feel_.

  31. Tessea

    This has to be one of my favorite Joyce moments.

  32. Needfuldoer

    Poor Alice. That’s “you could do it for someone else but not for me” hurt right there.

    1. DashWallkick

      Or it’s a “…do I let myself hope she’s better now?”

  33. DashWallkick

    This comic is interesting to consider given the last few arcs of Billie being totally miserable and following people’s expectations of her. I wonder if the sincere note this ends on means that Jennifer, despite her troubles, actually is improving in small ways and they should be noticed and approved of, even if her relationship with Asher was her going back to her high school shit.

    Would be kind of sweet to drag Jennifer through the mud narratively by subjecting her to witnessing all the things she isn’t allowed to have because of her fear of vulnerability, then in the final note point out, “she’s changing slowly because she’s scared, and relapsing into her old ways is normal.” Joe did it!

    1. Sirksome

      She has changed and improved it’s a slow improvement but it happened. To the point I really wonder why people think she’s meaner now. The Jennifer before the time skip picked a fight with Ruth on the first day and got thrown over a sofa. She thought a good time was getting so wasted at parties a guy could just take her home and have their way with her. Then she got into a relationship based on mutual self loathing and destruction.

      Post time skip Jennifer has been more stable in almost everything except her romantic relationships. How she treated Asher and just being friends with Raidah seemed to really turn opinions against her, but to me it always felt more like she was being used than her becoming worse. She was a jerk to Asher but she was also kind of a tool being used to potentially hurt Joyce and Sarah while also keeping Asher as part of Raidah’s cabal of connected, “popular” people.

      Like Jennifer spends most of her time now miserable in her room thinking of the past while all her friends get to get drunk at parties she can’t even go to and hook up with each other. And she still actually made time for her friends sometimes in ways they weren’t doing for each other. She just regressed into being a shallow narcissist too.

      1. Joy

        I’m pretty sure she spends most of her waking time in class, doing assignments, or studying. It’s just not that interesting to show on screen.

      2. Jeremiah

        She also you know, had her whole thing of clinging to Raidah group to fell like she is popular again and pushing away her actual friends. And just generally her refusal to do any kind of introspection until like right now. I fell sometimes you try too hard to give Jennifer a pass for some reason, acknowledging her flaws and negative character development is not bad you know.

        1. Sirksome

          Oh, don’t worry it’s pretty fun and easy. Much like you enjoy dumping on her failures. It’s how I show my appreciation for the character.

          I could go on but I get that we all read the comic differently.

        2. clif

          I understand the Japanese read it right to left.

          That must be terribly confusing.

      3. Embe13

        i am pretty sure if someone we knew in real life has underwent the changes billie has in the last 6 months, we would think it pretty fast, our view gets distorted by the fact its taken 10 years for us to see it

  34. Acher4

    Joyce, the perfect wingman…

    or is it wingwoman? 😛

    1. Steamweed

      For purposes of a balanced number of syllables, I’m going with “Wing-Girl.” The newest member to join Amazi-Girl’s circle.

  35. Rabisch

    Joyce is a good person. But I’m not sure she’s doing a favour to Alice helping Jennifer come back in her life. Ruth did well leaving her.

    1. Charles Phipps

      Ruth ended up, ironically, being the one to return to drinking.

      1. Bruno

        Me when I alienate myself from a functional support system.

      2. clif

        Caught that, did you?

      3. Rabisch

        But still with a character development that Jennifer can only dream about.

  36. Zamperla

    …Honestly Joyce aint wrong. She may choose to have a. Very kind and patient view on Jennifer. But Jennifer has absolutely changed since high school. Maybe the trajectory zig zags or backs up a ways. Maybe she hasn’t changed enough for someone she’s hurt as bad as Alice.

    But she has changed. She’s just. Still a lot.

  37. Joey245

    She’s learned to love and be loved in return, all before the last rose petal fell!

  38. Sanrai

    And pray tell Aloce, what are you doing RIGHT NOW?

    1. Taffy

      She’s just standing there. Sexily.
      And also probably wishing she’d been able to just eat her lunch without Billie trying to be part of her life again.

  39. Smooti

    Joyce’s interpretation ain’t… wrong, I suppose, but is probably the most generous interpretation of Billie and Ruth’s thing.

    And yet still is a far better example of how she’s changed than “I go by Jennifer and hang out with classist sophomores now” that Jennifer is trying out.

  40. Suet

    Yeah, she found love for real… with mistaking Sal as Amazi-Girl.

    Who’s the April fool now? Alice, that’s who.

    That’s right, when you see more than two whites in a person’s eyes, that means they’re misty-eyed.

  41. wakeangel2001

    she acts like a cornered cat because the one time she let someone pet her she got pinched

    1. Jeremiah

      She was like this way before that.

  42. ValdVin

    Joyce is hitting Hannelore levels of sincerity here. No wonder so many people trust her.

    1. Embe13

      I wonder if Hanners has read of R O D R I G O
      (she and joyce would do well together

      1. Steamweed

        *gasps
        You know Rodrigo? That river-bathing scene?!
        :O

        1. Schpoonman

          Hey, no spoilers!

        2. clif

          The butler did it, Rosebud was the sleigh, and Rodrigo gets the girl.

          Or maybe it’s the girl gets Rodrigo. The point is, it’s the journey, not the destination.

  43. AnonGrouch

    That alt text dunking harder on Jennifer through juxtaposition of Joyce’s lobbying for her than any other line of text in the series fucking dang man.

  44. AnonGrouch

    I was not prepared for Alice to not push in the way that would actually work. Who cares if Jennifer has loved someone up to Alice’s standards. “Has she stopped self destructing her relationships with aggression and stubborn overbearing hierarchical bullshit?” That’s what I was expecting, because that is in fact the note Alice stumbled in on and the actual ‘problem with Jennifer’. Like. Wat. Jennifer’s passion for others has never really been the problem. Her pride has been and it often interferes with that passion.

  45. Steamweed

    Panels 3 and 4 together, just by themselves, are the perfect summation of so damn many stories.

  46. Dot

    “I mean she immediately reverted to form once she got dumped buuuuut”

  47. staszu13

    Looking at you, Ruth

  48. Buck Ripsnort

    Seems like the commentary is 60-40 leaning towards “Billie is a monster and Alice should cut her off like a gangrenous limb”. I’m honestly excited to see which way Willis will drop. Whatever he does, it’s bound to piss off a few people.

    1. clif

      This is an awful lot of prep for Alice having nothing to do with Jennifer ever after.

      But yeah, I want my twisted relationship dysfunctional power couple back, so I’m right there with the Damn You Willis-es.

    2. HueSatLight

      Jennifer is not a monster, Alice is not obligated to have anything to do with her. Jennifer deserves love, but is not entitled to Alice’s. I don’t think it would feel satisfying if they reconciled.

      Joe+Joyce and Lucy+Walky felt like foils to each other. Two different ways similar circumstances play out. I liked the contrast. Like goofus and gallant, except if goofus ended up at church and gallant was giving a handy in the floor’s common kitchen.

      I’d kind of like to see the same with Jennifer and Dorothy stories of crisis of self-worth, identity, and “not getting the girl”. I can’t tell who would handle it how. More satisfying than Alice is prize for Jennifer to win.

    3. Charles Phipps

      I ship Alice/Jennifer a hundred times more than Jennifer/Ruth.

    4. Taffy

      You’re making up that stuff about monsters and gangrene. It’s not useful.

    5. Thag Simmons

      For the record as a narrative thing I think Alice and Jennifer falling back into each other’s orbit would be very compelling, I want it to happen

      That doesn’t mean it’s be a good thing for either of them, but it would be interesting to read

  49. Florence

    I can hear the la la land bittersweet piano playing

  50. Kyulen

    Testing because I lost all my firefox settings

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