232

Up an’ at ’em
Posted on April 11, 2023 by David M Willis
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232 thoughts on “Up an’ at ’em”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    Prime opportunity to share the greatest comment I’ve ever read, on “maximum economy of ass” (which maybe Dotty could stand to read)

    1. danimagoo

      I think everybody could stand to read that comment. Good share. It took me half a lifetime to realize that I didn’t have to go whole-ass on everything I did in life.

      1. khn0

        I think not everybody can stand to read that comment. I did it and it leaved me with the impression to be the quarter of some people ass.

    2. maarvarq

      It continues to be a shame not to be able to upvote here, so have an unofficial one.

    3. Nicoleandmaggie

      I was always impressed with how good my sister was at doing the minimum to get an A. I would always aim for 100%, and perfection takes time and effort. I try to keep her in mind but like Dorothy I tend towards doing at least some of the 80% work for 20% reward even if I don’t get to 100%

  2. Mr. Random

    The expectation of perfection is crushing.

    1. Nicoleandmaggie

      Yeah. Walky is not really a good match for her. He doesn’t see her really. Ruth actually has a better picture of who Dorothy is!

  3. Doctor_Who

    At least now she’s president of the snow hill.

    1. Bryy

      Let yourself out.

    2. Reltzik

      But will she make the snow hill great again?

      1. milu

        Dorothy would never stoop to this lionizing mythos of the founding snowflakes!

    3. Hof1991

      Dorothy’s empire of dirt.

  4. DailyBrad

    I hope she can find that middle ground, not having to be Miss Perfect, but also letting herself aspire to things.

  5. NGPZ

    Wait I don’t get it what’s the metaphor here?

    Pika pika?

    1. RassilonTDavros

      I think the idea is that the snow represents whatever “temporary” issues Dorothy is currently going through, and the mud underneath represents the “perfect girl” that Dorothy has always been. The snow is temporary, and the mud will outlast it.

      1. Thag Simmons

        Standing alone in a muddy pile by the side of the road isn’t imagery I see and think it represents something positive

      2. StClair

        She needs to let go of some things.

      3. Needfuldoer

        What do the coffee cups, cigarette butts, and abandoned shopping cart that got caught up in the snow represent?

        1. Amelie Wikström

          In my country there’s a saying, “what’s hidden by the snow comes out when it thaws.” It refers to how secrets don’t stay secret forever. The garbage people threw away and forgot has accumulated over the winter and now shows up all at once in a much worse form, tangled, mangled, wet and rotting. This could represent Dorothy’s hollow ambition coming to light.

        2. JBento

          The cigarette butts invoke the element of air, the coffee cup the element of water, and the shopping cart reminds us that we live in a profoundly capitalistic and consumerist society that wishes us to buy many things that do not truly capture our interest or fulfill our needs, and therefore end up discarded by the wayside.

        3. milu

          the fact that a snow heap is melting in january in Indiana represents the element of fire. nothing else.

        4. Mark

          The shopping cart is made of iron, from the element of earth.

    2. Sirksome

      Maybe there is no metaphor and we’re just seeing a sad, tired, young woman stand in mud? That’s life sometimes.

      1. someone

        I don’t know, “sad girl in mud” just doesn’t ring the same as “sad girl in snow”.

        1. Shogeton

          Oh wow, that is some ANCIENT lore, right there.

      2. Yumi

        Hovertext

    3. Xaeon

      Personally I think that the snow was Dorothy’s prior ambitions and the mud is what she’s left with now that all that all that all of that is gone. It looked so big and impressive once upon a time, but just a bit of heat and it all melted away, leaving very little of substance remaining.

      1. NGPZ

        I think this is the best guess.

  6. Caro

    doristand is now a two angle possibility

    1. Nathan

      What’s doristand?

  7. Spriteless Auntie

    Man Dorothy needs some new goals, or even freedom from goals for a bit.

    1. Thag Simmons

      She should go like, see a movie or visit an aquarium or something. Take a break for a bit.

      1. C.T. Phipps

        Go see Dungeons and Dragons, Dorothy!

        1. cbwroses

          Go see Scream 6, Dorothy!

        2. NGPZ

          Go see the Super Mario Movie, Dorothy!

        3. Liara

          I thought we’re suggesting things that might make her feel better

        4. zee

          The Mario movie is fun

        5. Taffy

          Somethin’ wrong with it? I heard it’s just a couple hours of Mario characters doin’ Mario character stuff, kinda just what you’d expect ’em to do. Idk, sounds fine so far.

        6. NGPZ

          Yeah i defs recommend it, the film is PHENOMENAL!!! ???

      2. Mark

        She should find someone to talk to who won’t brush her off with a platitude.

        1. Dr. Sharks

          To be fair, I think she should find someone to talk to that isn’t Walky. Walky had a justifiable reason to drop a platitude and peace out of that conversation ASAP. Though he admittedly already muddied their boundaries by asking her for advice about Lucy, she’s still clearly crossing them by being the ex who starts waxing nostalgic about your relationship after you’ve moved on.

    2. NGPZ

      Yeah. She could really use that freedom, that relief. Speaking as someone who’s learned the hard way via autistic meltdown. ?

    3. Dana

      She needs a little extra dressing on her salad and a nap.

  8. jpnr

    the war is not lost, dorothy

  9. Sirksome

    Walky’s been both the best and worst in this situation.

    1. Bysmerian

      Yeah, he’s great at, you know, being gentle rejecting Dorothy here. Genuinely. But he really doesn’t get how much she really needs some sort of very real support and validation of what she’s going through

      1. Leorale

        OTOH, when you reject somebody, it’s WAY kinder not to stick around immediately afterwards. End the unhappy conversation as quickly/gracefully as you can, and mercifully let the other person lick their wounds in peace.
        Their other friends can help support them, as you are unable to help them anymore for a bit.

        1. Dr. Sharks

          Well said. Nobody is the asshole here, it’s just kind of a shitty scenario for both of them and they’re handling it about as well as can be expected.

      2. Needfuldoer

        Yeah he’s really not the one she should be confiding in right now, not with the previous relationship baggage hanging over them.

      3. Mark

        Indeed. There are two conversations here. Walky dealt with the simpler one but is ignoring the more complex and, probably, more important one.

        1. thejeff

          But the simpler one absolutely needed to be handled and it makes handling the other a really bad idea.

      4. Moonie

        Thank you for voicing this. My feels exactly.

    2. Just an Armadillo

      If you’re not satisfied with Walky’s behavior here then I’m sorry to say there’s no iteration of Walky that will ever be enough for you. Because I don’t think Walky could possibly have handled this better without completely turning into a different person. There are better ways to handle this, sure, but Walky did a damn good job navigating his way through the conversation. He stayed faithful to the person he’s in a relationship with, turned Dorothy down without being harsh about it, and expressed his faith in her before leaving.

      Considering she went there with the intention of deliberately sabotaging his relationship, he would have been well within his right to be a lot less polite about the situation.

      1. C.T. Phipps

        I mean he doesn’t believe Dorothy when she’s 100% sincere she doesn’t want to be President.

        1. cain

          it’s pretty reasonable to see someone completely pivot their lifelong goals and think they’re going through a stressful slump and will come back around to what they wanted before. often inaccurate, but reasonable

        2. Dot

          She’s wanted to be president as long as he’s known her, and it’s only in the last few hours that any doubt in it has been expressed, coincidental with Dorothy clearly not being in a great place. Not unreasonable to assume that it’s a temporary funk and that the usual ambitious Dorothy will reemerge.

      2. hazel

        Agree. I kinda felt weird about it at first but this is the most charitable way to turn her down. It even gives her an out later, to deny being serious about it, just that it was a bad day.

      3. cbwroses

        It’s the double thumbs up as he leaves that makes him the worst.
        That level of cringe is almost enough to counteract all his positives in this conversation.

        1. Mark

          He’s trying to escape, both by walking away and by making light of the issue he’s avoiding. Not disagreeing, but I think I understand the reason for the gesture.

        2. zee

          I mean, trying to escape is the reasonable thing here. He’s not her therapist and she just said some things that make it real uncomfortable to stick around, and possibly risky to his relationship.

          Tbh i wouldn’t have even dropped the platitudes if i were in that situation. “Well y’know been great catching up, i got a paper i reeeeally gotta work on so I’m gonna head out now. Good luck with all that, bye!”
          Run as fast as I can away from That Mess

        3. Xaeon

          To be fair, there is absolutely no good way for him to handle this situation at this moment in time. He doesn’t know how badly she is doing. He can’t look into it because that would make the other problem worse. He doesn’t want to just leave because he does still care about her. He can’t offer any more support than this because again it would make the other problem worse. About the only thing more he can do is go find someone else to offer Dorothy some support, which hopefully he will go do now.

      4. Sirksome

        I don’t expect much from Walky actually. I approve of his loyalty, but peeps often book him being better than he actually is, when the truth is he actual kind of sucks as a support. He has the empathy but is bad at executing. That’s putting aside the Dorothy was trying to get back with him angle.

        1. Just an Armadillo

          You’re not wrong in that assessment, but I will point out that Dorothy trying to get back with him inherently undermines any support he could possibly give. The kind of support she wanted from him is not something she had any business asking for. So leaving peacefully is really the best play he can make.

      5. Matt

        For real. I identify deeply with Walky as a character, and I don’t particularly like him with Lucy / secretly hope they break up whether or not he gets with Dorothy. But this isn’t the way, and he generally navigated the situation empathetically, firmly, and ethically.

    3. HueSatLight

      The “Same Ol’ Dorothy” isn’t good consolation, but she’s kind of excluded him from being able to talk over what’s going on.
      She needs someone, not necessarily romantic, like Joyce has in Joe. Someone who doesn’t see her as who she was before, but is supportive of who she could grow into.
      Someone who has a sexy hoodie that he manages not to spill food on all the time.

      1. Sirksome

        Lol! I wish I remembered who that guy was! If he can back that would be an amazing deep pull. I kind of want in now!

        1. milu

          deep lore for those of us who remember what your gravatar was a while back ^^

      2. Dot

        …Danny?

      3. pope suburban

        I mean I think Joyce might be a good option here, actually, because she’s been frustrated with people not allowing her to change. With the way she’s concerned about Dorothy, I think they could have a very productive conversation about allowing people to grow, which includes ourselves. Maybe Joyce could gently point out to Dorothy that she’s been dropping the ball in that regard herself, what with the whole birth-control arc. Failing that, Jennifer or Sal also have experience trying to break the mold into which others cast them, so they could probably help too.

      4. HueSatLight

        Arnold. An acquaintance who probably doesn’t think of her as “Future President Dorothy Keene.” Things are complicated with people in her direct social circle. She can get a fresh start with someone newish without cutting everyone she knows off.

        1. Dot

          Since when do Dorothy and Arnold know each other?

        2. HueSatLight

          They live on the same floor and Arnold shares a half-bath with Walky. We don’t see every second of their lives, it’s practically impossible that they wouldn’t have met.

        3. Dot

          They may have passed each other on occasion but I see no reason why they would have become anything other than extremely casual acquaintances

        4. Nalim Skarro

          But that’s exactly why he’s perfect for this situation. As a mere acquaintance he has little to no invested relationship with the Dorothy that was and can easily accept the Dorothy she’s becoming at face value.

  10. Taffy

    Good on him for staying loyal effortlessly, but also for still having faith in Dorothy. It’s not his fault he hasn’t realised just how far down the Dorothy hole goes.

    1. NGPZ

      I concur. He couldn’t have pulled that off any smoother.

      Also, just which crackship do I have the delight of seeing as your avatar? 🙂

      1. BarerMender

        That appears to be Jacob and Joyce, and that kiss is canon.

        1. Clif

          Canon crack ships are the best crack ships.

      2. Taffy

        Currently it’s Goku and Dorothy. Yesterday someone brought up Jacob kissing Joyce so it was that, but edited so that Joyce was a Kingdom Hearts Xehanorted version of herself. I don’t remember the context for why it’s that specifically.

        1. cain

          Yeah, Dorothy might need someone new to talk to, but I don’t know if Goku is her type.

        2. Xaeon

          I duno, he’s pretty similar to Walky personality wise. On top of that he’s buffer, seems to have better hygiene, and is at least driven in his goals.

        3. NGPZ

          Conclusion — Dorothy should shift her goal to becoming the world’s strongest marshal artist. :p

  11. J. Spider

    The sad thing is that sometimes regret is unavoidable. She pushed Walky away to avoid regretting not following her dream only to end up regretting a relationship she could have had.

    It’s interesting seeing her grow as she’s always been just as much a kid as the rest of them. The best she can do now of course is move forward even if she isn’t the happiest Dorothy in the multiverse she needs to look for the next thing. Which isn’t great to do when you’re as burned out as she seems to be.

  12. shrub

    Danny called it all those years ago

    1. Nathan

      What did Danny call? (Perfect avatar for that comment btw)

      1. shrub

        https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/through/

        1. bemisawa

          On the one hand, I still feel he was failing to recognize how important excelling was to Dorothy, and was following the trope discussed later on in gender studies class – he’s unemployed Kermit expecting successful Miss Piggy to give up her life for Lurve. On the other hand, with the context we’ve gotten recently, I don’t know if he had some sense that her drive to become president was not fully thought-through in some respects, and that she might someday grow out of that specific part of her drivenness with sufficient reflection. (Which is not a bad thing. Presidential power’s got some serious strings attached, and can’t operate very effectively in a vacuum. And, as other people have pointed out, there’s lots of other ways to do good, many of which may even be more effective.) On the other other hand, if he just believed in Dorothy enough to think that she didn’t need a prestigious school (well, the networking opportunities thereof) to become president.

          But yeah, regardless, turns out dude wasn’t wrong. Just that he was the one she would stay for.

    2. BarerMender

      I think Billie called it when she said Dorothy could be a lower court judge.

      1. shrub

        I’d like to know why Dorothy wants to be the President.

        A natural culmination, in her mind, of the being the best person in the country?

        A desire to help people the most effective way she can?

        The ultimate validation?

        1. BarerMender

          Because someone told her she could do anything?

        2. shrub

          I really dislike that saying.

    3. GholaHalleck

      And everyone gave him SUCH SHIT for calling it too.

      1. Shogeton

        Honestly, I maintain that he deserved being given some shit for that. That doesn’t seem to be a ‘I’m earnestly thinking that you didn’t think your ambitions through’ and more of a ‘I’m wishful thinking that you’ll give up your ambitions for the sake of being with me’

        1. GholaHalleck

          Eh, I see it more of him being afraid of change, and hoping she’ll not leave Indiana, and by Indiana I mean Danny himself, behind. She kept harping on the “You can’t just follow me Danny” line and he just wanted to be with her.

          He was a doormat and they’re both honestly better off without the other, but I can’t help but feel for that “going to leave me behind” fear.

      2. HueSatLight

        And then the next strip negated a lot of the of the criticism. eg: he said he’d leave IU to follow her, not her give up her ambitions. And she revealed she’d been stringing him on for months.

        Plus ça change…, comment section.

        1. GholaHalleck

          I think you might be reading a different comments section, since my pedantic ass just went and reread the https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/kindness/ ones and… woof.

        2. HueSatLight

          yes, I was. I read the comments on https://www.dumbingofage.com/through/ and then I read the strip for kindness.

        3. GholaHalleck

          Yeah, that comments section still rips him apart.

          So I dunno where you’re seeing people not dumping on Danny.

        4. HueSatLight

          I think you misread what I said.

    4. sakamism

      Or, from another perspective, a few months ago lol

  13. newlland(Henryvolt)

    All this encouragement would be nice if the question is if she can do it. But the question now is if she should and why does she want too.

  14. UrsulaDavina

    I m not sure what to think about this advice on one hand its a nice sentiment and Walky means well, but it doesn’t feel like He is actually hearing Dotty. I suffer from depression and anxiety and Dotty is probably suffering one or the other or both and being told you’ll be normal again soon is not exactly the advice I want to hear when you’re full on down I don’t feel normal I feel awful and it doesn’t feel like it’s going away anytime soon. I think it’s better to acknowledge a person’s feeling then tell them they will get better even if it may be true. And I don’t feel like Walky fully gets that in this situation.

    1. UrsulaDavina

      Addendum Walky is not a therapist and didn’t do anything necessarily wrong here but what he said probably won’t be of much help to Dorothy’s state of mind at this moment but he is trying to be supportive.

      1. Mano308gts

        He’s trying to extract himself from a situation which went from bad to worse, as well as he can, as quickly as he can, without forever destroying friendships that have suddenly become strained. And, he is moving with the deftness of a ninja, a master of martial arts.

        Walky’s had some rough times… But apparently something clicked on him this winter, and he’s decided it’s time to be serious about life… Even when standing on top of a ruined snow hill.

  15. StClair

    Just keep rollin’ that boulder!

    1. UrsulaDavina

      Until it hits you and you’re lying there saying comd help me please the Seagulls will come and poke your knees

  16. emeraldbeacon

    Let’s consider the worst case scenario… Dorothy, having just “lost Walky” all over again, bumps into Danny, regresses further, hints at a fling “just to remember who she used to be…”

    1. cbwroses

      You forgot “and then Sal beats the breaks off her.”

      1. cbwroses

        *brakes

    2. GholaHalleck

      Worst case is she goes goes full out First Semester Joe and debauchees across campus in a whirlwind of Kmart Leslie Knope sexual fury.

  17. JA

    Coming untethered from what you’ve known for years and expected of yourself and your future is discombobulating. It’s not easy moving forward when your path suddenly disappears and you can’t immediately find it again.

    1. cain

      Yep. I’ve gone through similar disorientation a few times, and it’s rough. Dorothy will come out the other side of this confusion a stronger person, more prepared to handle change in the future; but right now it’s just pain.

  18. Kitschensyngk

    You told him to move on from you.

    So he did.

    1. JBento

      Her petard, she is hoisted by it.

  19. Wereg

    Walky’s been super enjoyable this arc!

  20. Just an Armadillo

    I get that Walky isn’t helping as much as he thinks he is with this parting line, but I don’t think he can or should be the one to help in this situation. Fact of the matter is there is only one kind of support Dorothy is looking for from Walky and it’s not one she has any business asking for. And while Walky may not recognize what Dorothy’s going through I do think he recognizes that the best thing for both of them in this situation is if he leaves the conversation as cleanly as possible. What she needs is not something he can give her, and that’s her fault, not Walky’s.

    1. Just an Armadillo

      Quick addendum here, I think I misspoke a bit by using the word ‘fault’. Dorothy’s actions are definitely the problem here but she’s clearly not in a healthy place so I’m not trying to place any serious blame on her even if I disapprove.

  21. HueSatLight

    “Sounds Exhausting” in this type of situation feels like a call-back.

  22. Derek

    I know Walky is minimally involved in Dorothy’s life now (by choice), but it seems kinda cowardly of him to walk away after she told him she’s rejecting the Yale acceptance. This is a huge thing

    He’s not obligated to her help or talk her out of this obviously terrible decision; but I think it would be kinder to make a big deal of why this is a bad idea.

    But maybe all he really processed from this conversation is that Dorothy wants him to break up with Lucy so they can fuck again, and said “nope, not dealing with that” and left; which is valid.

    1. Sirksome

      It’s a mixed bag. Dorothy kind of poisoned the well by starting off with an “I want you back” while at an all time emotional low, and Walky is also terrible at consoling people and avoiding hard conversations until they boil over into eating homework, parental racism arguments with your twin, or Halloween party blow ups about poorly processed grief, is like his major character flaw.

      This was never gonna be a great character showcase for either of them.

      1. GholaHalleck

        She basically gave away all foreseeable solo comfort from him because of the break up attempt yup. And what’s he gonna even say: “Sorry you (for some reason) gave up on your dream, like you gave up on our relationship.”?

        1. BOOSTER SHOT

          “Sorry you gave up on the dream you gave up on our relationship for, but I’m actually paying attention in math now, and just because your y variable is now inverted doesn’t mean your ex variable is inverted too”

    2. shrub

      I think he did the right thing of walking away but for the wrong reason in that he gave Dorothy a quick pep talk and now everything’s aok so he can make his escape

      1. Moonie

        Bingo

      2. GholaHalleck

        “While I find your attempts to break up my relationship not cool, I still think you’d make a great president, so buck up buckaroo.

        I’m leaving now because you just tried to make me fuck up my current relationship for your own pleasure over my self worth. Later!”

    3. HueSatLight

      What she needs from him right now is space, while they can still be friends later. What she needs from somebody else is consoling and talking through and accepting. And he can’t do that. He can text Becky. She might not get serious very often, but she can do it if Dorothy will open up.

      It’s ok decision to not transfer to Yale. Her desire to go to Yale was from when she was making every major decision in her life according to a 20+ year plan with a singular goal at the end. She’s struggling with the burden of that version of herself. It’s a prison that would overwhelmingly likely lead to failure, even if she followed her plan exactly, at the cost of living her life.

      1. Derek

        I am mightly biased, but I think it’s incredibly stupid of anyone to turn down an acceptance from a prestigious school (unless the reason they cannot attend is financial).

        It’s fine that she doesn’t want to be president anymore, but there’s tons of other careers that would better suit her personality and strengths and a famous school will doubtlessly give her a leg up in the career she does end up choosing.

        Yeah she’d be making a mistake if she continued to doggedly enter politics at the expense of everything else; but she’d also be making a mistake in throwing away an opportunity like this.

        1. HueSatLight

          Having a luxury brand diploma isn’t the only thing someone should consider when deciding if they want to transfer schools.

        2. Derek

          If Dorothy’s likely career path was in STEM, I’d agree; because a degree in medicine or engineering from any accredited university is as good as the next one.
          But from what we know about her, she’s more likely to pursue something in humanities, a field in which a famous name can go a long way

        3. GholaHalleck

          Yale isn’t about the education, its about who you meet while going to Yale.

        4. elfroyalty

          i think the sticking point here is like… dorothy is super depressed and has a lot of unprocessed trauma. if she went to yale, she’d be going from her home state, with all the safety nets of being close to home and surrounded by people she knows and many of whom she really cares for and care for her in turn, and moving several states over to new haven, connecticut – 12 hours (with good traffic) from both her friends here in bloomington AND her home town of mishawaka. on top of all of that… ct has an extremely high col compared to indiana. i’m sure that she’s already from a relatively comfortable background wealth-wise, they can afford to send her to iu already, but being independent in a new place far from home without anyone to catch you if things go south is just quadrupling all of the stress she’s already suffering under.

          it isn’t just “if i don’t succeed i can’t go to yale/become president,” it’s “if i don’t succeed i will lose my scholarships/acceptance/whatever and may end up stranded/homeless/whatever.” it is an immediate, tangible anxiety and threat that would loom over her 24/7/365. as a guy who moved across the country to be with my darling wife (who i love so so much), i will say that particular stressor has made the worst days… much much worse.

          and honestly if there’s one thing i’ve learned in life it’s that it really is never too late to go back to school or change your career trajectory or pursue your dreams or find new ones! dorothy can always go to ivy league later. she can reapply to yale later. she can always get her fancy humanities MA, MFA, PhD, whatever at whatever fancy school… later, when she isn’t spiraling, posed with the seemingly sisyphean task of continued existence.

          ambition isn’t a bad thing to have, but life doesn’t have to be decided at 18. and i think that’s a desperately important lesson for everyone, but also dorothy in particular, to learn.

          (sorry for the rambling!)

        5. Yumi

          I agree with this, and also:
          1. Yale is much more expensive than IU. If her family is able to comfortably afford IU for her, that doesn’t mean going to Yale won’t mean debt. I know many of the Ivies have strong financial aid programs for those who qualify, but also, if her family is able to comfortably afford IU, that might indicate they’re out of the qualifying range while still not totally prepared for Yale.

          2. A hyper-competitive school like Yale is going to be full of really driven people. Yes, there are many students to benefit from extreme privilege there, but it can still take a lot to get in. I imagine there are a lot of pressure-cooker aspects to attending there. I don’t think that’s what Dorothy needs to be surrounded by right now.

    4. Joy

      I agree with his choice to Walky away from the situation, but I think what he said while he was leaving was such a dickish thing to say.

      1. Joy

        Holy shit Dorothy deserves so much better than Walky and I hope she internalizes that.

  23. Karla Jean

    I think a suicide attempt is looking more and more likely.

    1. BarerMender

      I was thinking that, but I didn’t want to say it.

      1. HeatherJean

        Yeah, me too. Or something involving copious amounts of ethanol, or just staying in bed for days at a time. Or some combination thereof.

        1. BarerMender

          But not Ruth redux.

    2. not someone else

      I call “not doing anything so obvious as physical self-harm intended to end her life, but finding a way to destroy her life”.

      It’s kinda like a suicide attempt but for people who don’t want to acknowledge they’re feeling suicidal.

      1. Karla Jean

        She’s already doing that.

      2. Yumi

        I don’t think a suicide attempt is likely, and even this I don’t think is likely, but: Maybe she’ll find herself in a dangerous situation and not act in a way to save her life/protect her immediate physical safety. Not that she’d die! Just that she wouldn’t act with direct regard for her life, and then be freaked at that realization.

    3. Taffy

      Haha holy shit I sure hope not. We haven’t seen that except from Ruth, and hers was slower than Dorothy’s would be. That’d be fuckin’ dark.

      1. Nono

        And with the glacial pace at which the webcomic moves, it’s just gonna steep for years here.

        We already have Ethan grieving for who knows how along.

        1. GholaHalleck

          For as long as it takes Booster to get in his pants, then for Ethan to notice how much Booster looks like Mike.

  24. Dday

    Just acknowledge that someone feels bad/remorseful/sad without telling them why how and when they will feel better. Walky bought hard into this persona of Dotty being “perfect” and fundamentally more important than him, I think at least partly because he usually has a hard time dealing with negative emotions (except on garbage roof somehow?). Dotty is just another person made of meat. That said, probably the smart thing to walk away rn, pretty much anyone besides him should be talking her through this now.

  25. shrub

    Has it ever been stated why exactly Dorothy wants to be president?

    1. anon

      well, she did come off as an over achiever/goal orientated but idk if there was something more appealing about the ‘leadership’ aspect of it as opposed to say, volunteering for some charity /huge activist movement

      1. shrub

        I guess President is the ultimate goal for any over achiever

        1. Reltzik

          Bah. True overachievers aim for secretary-general of a newly-united Earth.

        2. JBento

          Sticking to only Earth? Lame.

    2. not someone else

      Not really directly, but from what she has said, it seems to be a general idea that she wants to be absolutely the Best Ever at Doing Good Person Things, and that sort of wound up becoming a general desire to gain as much power as possible and use it for good.

      1. shrub

        Thats the thing isn’t it, theres I don’t know how many different ways (thousands?) Dorothy could help

        Even her volunteering is helping yet is it the helping or the prestige or both shes after

        *She should hook back up with Danny, help him become a tech overlord and then she’d have some real power

        *Sarcasm

        1. Mark

          How many of those ways can help 300,000,000 people?

        2. Orson Smelles

          I don’t think this holds up if you look at how *much* she can help in different places. Anyone can help people in their local community just by donating their time and body, but if you’re Dorothy and believe without reservation that you’re *much much better* at solving problems and making decisions than 95% of the population, I don’t think it’s hard to decide that you have a moral obligation to reach the highest-leverage position you can find to apply your abilities. I suspect that on some level she would feel responsible for the actions of any President not named Keener, because she “should” have made those decisions instead.

          I think this is pretty much always going to be a harmful way to think if you commit too hard to it (it’s essentially how SBF justified everything to himself) and it readily creates impossible expectations, but I don’t think it’s logically inconsistent, just wildly unpragmatic. Dorothy has clearly lived in her own reality-distortion field for years now, so there’s no way that’s going to stand out to her as a problem.

    3. Needfuldoer

      Because!

    4. Keulen

      I don’t think it was ever made directly clear, but I kinda hope it was from a desire to help lots of people, and not just because becoming president in the future sounded like the best achievement to Dorothy when she was very young.

    5. zee

      It’s the ultimate gold star

  26. brute

    this reminds me of aragorn turning down eowyn as nicely as he can, which means later in the comic dorothy is gonna stab some asshole right in the face and save indiana. that’s my only prediction for the future at this point.

    1. Amós Batista

      Dorothy taking the place of Amber, to assume Amazi-girl’s identity…

      1. Puppeteer Nessus

        I want this!

      2. Pergola

        Are we seeing the origin of Night Girl?

  27. anon

    it’s nice that walky believes in dorothy that much but someone needs to teach him what burnout is lol

    you’d think he’d know from jennifer’s issues but then again i guess she ‘bounced’ back in a way XP

    1. GholaHalleck

      I think Walky’s basically written Jennifer off for the foreseeable future. She’s in a “We’re not friends” era and he’s dealt with that repeatedly already.

      “She’s being a witch atm, when it all blows up in her face again we can be friends.”

  28. Dr. Gonzo

    I have a weird feeling that the person who would be most useful for Dorothy to talk to right now is Jennifer. Preferably over drinks.

    1. Dana

      Wow. That might be a really good call.

    2. Sean Smith

      My vote is Danny

    3. thejeff

      How about not over drinks with the recovering alcoholic?

  29. James

    What a not at all worrying response!

  30. Hazel

    Walky sucks. “Don’t worry, by tomorrow at the latest, we’ll all be back to sucking your bones dry of every drop of marrow!” I bet he’s gonna keep coming to her with his romantic woes, too.

    1. HueSatLight

      He is not going to come to her with his romantic woes.

      1. cain

        He just did earlier today, by asking about Lucy sex. I’d be surprised if he kept bringing it up, but.

        1. HueSatLight

          He is not going to come to her with his romantic woes because she just asked him to break up with Lucy and get back with her.

    2. zee

      Nah. Drop some platitudes and dip is the nicer option here instead of just, leave wordlessly which is also an option I’d take.

      Not his circus, not his monkeys, she can find someone who’s relationship she didn’t just try to torpedo if she wants real help.

  31. BOOSTER SHOT

    SHE NEEDS BILLIE

    1. Nicoleandmaggie

      Or Booster…

  32. Net-Zero Joeyce Shipper (no engine, slowly following the current)

    i hope she starts smoking weed and joins roller derby. slacker Dorothy era, but with an outlet for all her anger and frustration instead of just going numb. all sorts of options open up once freed from the self-imposed burden of perfection. i have literally no idea where the story will go from here, but i’m rooting for Dorothy to catch up with her peers and undergo some change and self-discovery.

    1. Taffy

      The comic slowly transitions into a majority roller derby story, with an entire tournament arc at some sort of regional competition.

    2. Needfuldoer

      She’s a runner, but she’s scrawny. They’ll knock her around like a pinball.

      1. BOOSTER SHOT

        Might be good for Dorothy to have obstacles that are immediate and physical to overcome, but occur on a schedule with regulations

    3. HueSatLight

      getting stoned with Meredith and eating hoosier legacy beef burgers (with caramelized onions and brie) all day.

    4. Amós Batista

      Eh, I believe the first storyline of the next book will bring it to us…
      (So, Dorothy will suffer for one more chapter)

  33. Acher4

    “Maybe tomorrow…
    Maybe next week…”

    A decade of that, does sound kind of exhausting yes. 😛

  34. Reltzik

    Okay, Dorothy. You’re lonely and you need someone to open up to and unwind with. Let’s see who your list of confidantes are.

    Walky’s out, and it’s probably best not to be around Danny either. Joyce is in that delicate stage of a budding relationship that doesn’t leave much time for other friends. Joe too. Who else does Dorothy spend a lot of time with?

    … the only two options I can think of are Becky and Sarah, and with both of those my gut is telling me “that would either work great or be a total disaster, those two extremes are the only possibilities”.

    1. Mark

      Consider also: who can she let herself open up to and unwind with? Who is she that close to? I don’t think there is anybody else. She’d have to build up a relationship of that sort first, while in the worst condition for doing so.

    2. Dot

      Honestly, talking with Danny doesn’t sound like a bad idea. There’s been plenty of space between their breakup and now, he’s happy with Sal and generally in a better place, has some good perspective to offer re reinventing oneself and making positive changes in one’s life, and he’s known her for a long time.

      1. shrub

        Shes burnt her bridges with Danny and its not Dannys responsibility anymore.

        On that though Dorothy has shown to have a lack of a certain type of boundary.

        When Dorothy broke up with Danny not long after she went to him to borrow shoes for Walky, that wasn’t cool.

        When she first started dating Walky it was for funsies, then she said she loved him, then she broke up with him and now trying to get back with him.

        Shes an interesting one thats for sure

        1. timemonkey

          She didn’t burn any bridges. They’ve had friendly conversations with each other since the break up and have hung out in the same group together several times.

        2. Dot

          What bridges have they burnt? They broke up and then were awkward around each other for a few weeks and since then have basically normalized and been friendly with each other even if they aren’t as close as they used to be. It’s not at all beyond the pale for Dorothy to seek advice from Danny, nor for Danny to give it.

    3. Mark

      On mature consideration, Becky might be just right. But Dorothy won’t go to her. Becky will notice that Dorothy’s side of the room is untidy(!) and Dorothy is sitting and staring at an empty desk, and Becky will make the first move. Snarkiness ensues, then tears, and then they really talk.

  35. Amós Batista

    Lord! How much the universe will crush Dorothy, until she break.

  36. Allison Branford

    See! Not that it’s Walky’s responsibility to, BUT~~~~
    Walky is definitely hearing and not listening. He is (to be fair, understandably) trying to get out of the conversation more than help. I’d be sympathetic to him, EXCEPT he was always like this when dating Dorothy. But, it seems like a good sign that Dorothy sees how exhausting her goals were, to the extent she was taking them. Hopefully she seeks out therapy, or at least talks to Joyce and Becky about this.

    1. thejeff

      Except that he’s not dating Dorothy and she just, not quite explicitly, made a pass at him. That’s very rarely a good time to stick around and have a deep heart to heart about another issue.

  37. eskimolos

    Yeah, Dorothy has been down for a long time, platitudes are not what she needs, though it’s nice to think someone who knows you has faith in you. In actual fact they’ve only really known one another like 6 months at this point? But it is true uni is like the last time it’s that easy to make close friends. In fact, Dorothy may feel quite alone with Joyce having Joe and Walky having Lucy while she’s going through this. Other people having unshakeable faith in her perfection is not enough to help her navigate a crisis of personal faith.

    1. Mark

      “Alone” is the word. The one person here who’s seen her when she lets herself be vulnerable, just walked away.

  38. Amelie Wikström

    Two hours later, at a bar: “I’m not trying to come on to you, I just want to talk to the one person I know who knows anything about being chill. Yeah, that’s what I should have said.”

  39. Nicoleandmaggie

    Dorothy still needs a hug. And a cry. And ice cream.

  40. nightshade

    that’s the bad thing about being a type A personality like Dorothy is “Because your a go-getter and positive person you’ll pull through its just temporary ” which everyone including Dorothy herself will believe up to and possibly through the suicide attempt/accomplishment because that type almost never gets the serious help they need even if they themselves recognize they need it

  41. DarkoNeko

    it really does

  42. Blume

    I knew this convo wasn’t going well ;-;, something felt off to me. Walky puts Dorothy on a pedestal, so while he takes her seriously, there’s also this air of “It’s YOU, YOU can do anything!”. Dorothy need genuine help.

  43. FadingMemory

    I am liking Walky’s metaphor hill in this scenario as a reflection of the change in his life. Walky truly enjoyed that hill, as he did his relationship with Dorothy, and it now no longer is what it was, is so in his face/so obvious he can’t ignore it, which he has to accept and walk away from.

    1. ian livs

      This is an excellent comment^

  44. Wilddeath

    So how long before Dotty offs herself? cause ive seen the result of this downward spiral before with a friend of mine who is no longer with us.

    1. Yumi

      I’m very sorry about your friend. I don’t think that is where it’s going for Dorothy, though I do think she will continue to struggle for a bit. She needs support, and I hope she confides in someone in a position to offer it. (Like, not Walky, especially with how she approached him.)

    2. Taffy

      Hopefully at least 82 in-comic years. Seein’ a lot of suicide talk, and I sure hope there’s not a whole lot more of it. Talk about what ya want, just a little worried if that’s people’s gut reaction, I’m starting to second-guess my understanding of Dorothy’s character.

      1. wilddeath

        It’s less an understanding of dorothy’s character and more seeing the warning signs and that nothing is being done about them to get her help. In my case it got a lot easier to see the warning signs when i missed them the first time with my friend. Dotty basically has a giant warning sign flashing neon red above her head and its super loud.

  45. vulcanodon

    It’d be nice if Joyce wound up helping Dottie somehow.

    1. Amós Batista

      I couldn’t count on people that are in a relationship. They help are few, to innexistent.
      Even more Joyce, that are in a fresh one with Joe.

  46. Yeet

    Swing and a miss, Walky but given the need to extract yourself from being asked out by your ex? Not really your fault.
    Dorothy, go tell someone who can help for real what your actual problems are. Stop lying to your therapist.

  47. poyo

    I hope dorothy realizes that none of this is failure, it’s growth. we change a lot, ESPECIALLY in the college age years. it’s 100% okay of your goals and beliefs change as well !! *thumbs up emoji*

    1. Mark

      I surely would like to see someone ask Dorothy, “why do you think you’ve failed?”

      1. poyo

        perhaps a Booster moment ? but i would also love to hear joyce say it. i think it would resonate with her the most if it was joyce

  48. HueSatLight

    Upanatem is my favorite pharaoh.

    1. Taffy

      I like just plain ol’ Atem.

      1. BOOSTER SHOT

        YO

  49. ian livs

    It can be really exhausting. Please tell your therapist what’s really going on, Dorothy!

  50. Joy

    As a former gifted kid, I FUCKING HATE WHEN PEOPLE GET Like THIS. I fucking hate when people get like this! Like, no, please stop treating people who happen to be responsible or ambitious or smart like fixed points in the universe. She needs support?????? So much?

    I’m yelling at my screen (emotionally not literally.) But the writing is unfortunately too realistic for me to really criticize. People are actually like that towards gifted kids and it’s exhausting to put up with. I’ve literally cut people out of my life for treating me that way. I don’t regret it.

    1. timemonkey

      Is Dorothy a gifted kid though? Walky was but I had the impression Dorothy’s side was all hard work.

      1. Nicoleandmaggie

        You can be gifted and work hard too.

        1. timemonkey

          You can, but was it ever suggested she was gifted?

  51. Owlmirror

    Note that Walky left Dorothy with the Empire of Dirt.
    She can have it all.

    1. Adept

      Well played

      1. Clif

        Great. Another snow hill metaphor.

  52. Adept

    Poor Dotty.

  53. Owlmirror

    While it’s true that Walky just walking away — fleeing from a very very awkward situation — is very much in character, and a trait that I deeply sympathize with, I kinda wish that he’d been more open to other possibilities.

    Like, instead of this strip, the following:

    Walky: *turns back …*

    Walky: Y’know, I’m not good at this kinda thing, but it seems to be that you’re sad, and maybe you need cheerin’ up. I got an idea, gimme a sec…

    Walky: *takes out phone, makes call*

    [Cut to Joyce and Joe, who are in fact holding hands. Joyce’s phone rings.]

    Joyce: (picks up, still holding Joe’s hand)

    Joyce: Hey Walky, what’s up?

    Walky: Dorothy is sad, and …

    [Joyce and Joe are suddenly on the Empire of Dirt, still holding hands in the same position as they were. Did Joyce teleport with Joe? Maybe!]

    Joe: What just happened?

    Joyce: WHAT DID YOU DO?

    Walky: Uh, Dorothy is maybe down because of something Raidah said to her about presidents bein’ war criminals, and she turned down Yale, and … [small]she maybe wants to get back with me and I said no[/small] … anyway, I thought she could use a group hug from a couple of her friends. Maybe?

    Joyce: Dorothy, we need to talk … but you do look like you need a hug first badly. *embraces Dorothy*

    Walky: *embraces Dorothy*

    Joe: Uh, feelin’ kinda awkward here because I don’t think Dorothy likes me much.

    Joyce: Well, you can hug *me*.

    Joe: *embraces Joyce*

    Dorothy: *sandwiched between Walky and Joyce* *sad smile* I guess this does help.

    Joyce: *sandwiched between Dorothy and Joe — eyes widen and blushing with embarrassed arousal*

    [Did I just commit micro fanfic? I think I nearly did…]

    1. vulcanodon

      Awwwwwwwww…

    2. Nicoleandmaggie

      If Walky were more thoughtful…

    3. Mark

      I like it. Address the awkward, set it aside, and turn to the real need: comfort.

      Oh, and drag all of the stressors out at last so they can be talked about, not brooded on.

  54. Serendipity

    Oh, no. I know that feeling. This is what burnout looks like.

  55. Tama

    She’s there for everyone all the time… and no one is there for her, no one sees that she’s burned out, spiraling, flailing, in urgent need of support, and when she does something stupid and desperate, everyone’s just seeing one bad day. No one sees the helper who needs help.

    On a personal level, I don’t like where it feels like this is going.

    On a criticism level, this is a story that should be told BECAUSE it’s uncomfortable.

    1. Nicoleandmaggie

      I was just thinking a big problem with being the mom friend is that you’re there for everyone and nobody is there for you.

      Time to seize life and make new friends! Ones who she isn’t a mom with. I remember being in a similar situation in college and meeting a new group of people in a communal kitchen and trading (not literally trading) fresh chocolate chip cookies for an invite to a Buffy marathon (I’d never seen any) and suddenly everything seemed bearable again and I got new casual friends who didn’t need anything from me. So much healthier!

      I hope Dorothy can find someone kind to talk with or just be with while she works through stuff.

  56. Amós Batista

    In a way or another, this storyline are letting me unconfortable.

    Dorothy’s getting one blow after another blow, in her dreams, in her beliefs… A lot of things looks like me in my entire youth.

    As I learned, I cannot be or have some things I aways have dreamed; but I was aways so stubborn, persistent or even fool to just give up.

    Dorothy seeing Joyce “slipping” to Joe’s arms looks like me, losing a lot of friends or crushes that just married or only don’t have interest in me (not discussing today any Dorothy x Joyce ship, I know, they’re just friends).

    Sometimes, just giving up feels sooo comfy… The sad point is, instead dreaming to be a president, I just want to be able to travel a day and rent a house to me and my brother. So, I don’t know if I’m able to give up.

    Shit.

  57. Suet

    It gets easier. Every day it gets a little easier. But you gotta do it every day, that’s the hard part. But it does get easier.

    Yeah nah, let her just be the Queen of the Geeks

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