This is not real colors. Everything here is a shade of red or blue, but they are different hues of red & blue. Look closer: there are no yellows or greens (but there are oranges and cyans). All the skin tones can be considered a shade of red. Most of the background is blue of a blue-ish off-gray. It’s honestly really well done, as the two red and blue palettes meld together, and I like it. š
This is all Ethan’s fault. You see, the clerk is Mike, which is why we can’t see the clerk, so there’s no tag. Mike, with his ability to read people has now said exactly the one thing that makes taking Ethan hostage inevitable. He’s also called the police in advance which is the only possible way they could have shown up, sirens blazing, within seconds of the robbery starting. Mike, it should be remembered, is the one who used blackmail to set up this trip in the first place, knowing it would be hugely stressful for everyone involved. Now, all he has to do is watch as events take their inevitable course and the seeds of Amazigirl are sown. So you see, it is all Ethan’s fault.
Prove me wrong.
MatthewTheLucky
Ah, but in truth it is Naomi’s fault, as the creation of Amazi-Girl is solely to put Ethan under enough stress that he’ll sleep with Mike, which is the one thing Naomi most dreads, thus accomplishing Mike’s goal of figuratively fucking Ethan’s mom
Where I live, it’s not legally considered a pitcher unless it has a pour spout.
That means you can take one of those giant novelty beer mugs into a bar and have it filled up, even if you’re the only person at the table, and it doesn’t count as the bar selling a pitcher to a single person. On the other hand, if you’re at the bar/club by yourself, you can’t have your beer served in one of those tiny creamer jugs. BECAUSE IT’S LEGALLY A PITCHER. >_<
Miri
Can you not purchase a pitcher to consume on your own then? I mean in fairness the only place I’ve done that was Wetherspoons and their cocktails are really weak… And technically that was two pitchers between two people?
She’s pretty conflicted herself, but for the moment her doubts about this being the right thing to do or even a good idea sound just like being too scared to help Marcie, so she’s pushing through it :/
We haven’t seen much indication of adults in Sal’s life giving her much of a chance. She’s had a REALLY rough time of it leading up to this moment, and unfortunately, that out just came too late.
Interesting! I read it as her doubling down because, hey, she’s already come this far, fuck it, right? Sal’s pretty stubborn. But I like that it can be read other ways, too!
BBCC
Could be a mix of guilt and saying ‘fuck this’ – after all, she has a couple people at home she probably wants to piss off right now (especially since she is definitely not getting the money for Marcie now).
thejeff
I’m not sure that really makes sense though – even in her messed up state.
If she’s definitely not getting the money and has a way to get away, why take the hostage. We’d originally thought that was to make the clerk give her the money and it only really makes sense if she’s still thinking that.
If she was just trying to get caught, she could just stay and rant until the cops come in.
BBCC
Fair point.
Miri
How does “I am not a kid. I am fed up with being treated loke a kid and being dismissed. What do I need to do to be taken seriously here??” work for you?
I think it’s important that she has an out. That she has this way to avoid all of the punishment and judgement and sneering that comes afterwards (…….well, okay, most of it).
Because while she has a somewhat noble reason for all of this, the saying remains true: There’s nothing like a good cause to bring out the worst in people.
I don’t think we’re supposed to be cheering Sal on. I think we’re supposed to be seeing that, while Sal has good intentions, she’s doing something horrible to fulfill them.
Is it common for a man to call a kid “hon” ? One he has no family connexion to ?
Actually, is it common that a clerk, whatever their gender is, call a kid customer “hon” ?
I’m asking because this looked really weird to me ever since we first met this specific clerk.
Knayt
It’s regional – it wouldn’t draw any attention in the south, and in the west it doesn’t draw much (it’s notable, but not weird). I can’t speak for Indiana in particular though.
Liquid Len
In the Northeast it’s mostly associated with diner waitresses.
vlademir1
In eastern Indiana and western Ohio it’s not exactly common, but it’s also not quite uncommon. When the region was a core manufacturing hub during the mid-twentieth century quite a lot of Southerners migrated here, especially from Appalachia and other poorer, more rural regions of the south for the employment opportunities the region offered. Quite a lot of us descended from them learned some of those mannerisms at home, though the corporate culture of the chain restaurants, large chain retail establishments, corporate owned gas stations, et al that have increasingly infested the region the last forty or fifty years have also largely pushed against addressing the public in such a manner.
Jothki
It’s funny to think that many diners are basically immigrant-run ethnic food places.
Store clerk is now my favorite character. After everyone who has failed Sal, a line that starts with both her parents and just gets longer and longer, it’s this one anonymous store clerk who tries to give her another chance, when said clerk has the least incentive to do so. That’s really, really powerful, I think. It’s a shame that it was just too little, too late.
I have sympathy for someone right up until they choose to make things worse for someone else.
Yeah she got a bad deal of the cards but now what shes doing to someone else is worse than whats been done to her
I understand why shes doing what shes done but the sympathy I had for her is gone and now I’m more concerned for Ethan and Amber
BBCC
Two questions here:
1) Why did you sympathize in the first place then? We knew going in that she took Ethan hostage.
2) Do you also have no sympathy for Amber after she stabbed Sal? That was also making things worse for someone else (who was detained and no longer a threat I might add).
chris73
1) Why did you sympathize in the first place then? We knew going in that she took Ethan hostage.
Sal made plenty of decisions to get to the situation she finds herself in, some were forced on her, some were of her own choosing but here she had a choice to run or make someone else situation worse than her own and she chose to make Ethans situation worse
2) Do you also have no sympathy for Amber after she stabbed Sal? That was also making things worse for someone else (who was detained and no longer a threat I might add).
I have a lot of sympathy for her situation but little to none for actually stabbing Sal
Kris
Honestly most of this doesn’t matter now since we know what happened. The sympathy or lack there of should wait until we see how this shakes out in the present. What’s more important is what they all decide to do when/if they ever talk about this.
BBCC
1) I still don’t understand. She had that choice in Amber’s flashback too when she saw the bulletproof glass.
2) So do you still have sympathy for Sal’s situation even if not for the robbery itself?
chris73
I’ve given Sal some leeway due to age and circumstances but at some point you are responsible for your own actions.
I can see why she drifted into crime, I can see why she thought robbing the store might be a good idea, I can see why in the heat of the moment Sal might think its her only option but then she was told she’d get nowhere with the knife and then she was told to leave and she’d probably get away with it but she chose to grab a hostage.
I also consider Sals situation to be quite different to Ambers. Amber, to me, has a worse home life than Sal as well as suffering from a mental illness whereas Sal doesn’t seem to be mentally ill
thejeff
But nothing has changed in what we knew. Previously, we had no idea the cops were right there, so there was no reason to think Sal couldn’t just leave. Now we know the cops are there, but she could run out the back. Same situation.
She came in here planning to threaten the clerk with a knife to get money and wound up threatening Ethan instead.
BBCC
What thejeff said and I’d also point out that while Sal’s (so far as we know) she is likewise being largely influenced by trauma (what happened to Marcie) and the actions of a shitbag parent shoving her into a corner.
I guess I don’t really see much of a difference.
Elsendor
(tw for csa mention):
if sal’s not mentally ill with that upbringing i’ll eat my shoes. my parents were very similar to hers and i’m diagnosed with c-ptsd, and, i quote my therapist, “i think your parents damaged your way of thinking more than .”
Elsendor
ack the tw was carrots containing [the person who sexually abused me for three years when i was a prepubescent child] but i guess the carrots got interpreted as botched html.
BBCC
@ Elsendor – I’m so sorry to hear that. Are you feeling better from the last few strips? I seem to recall you were having a hard time with them.
Elsendor
@ BBCC – i’m in a much better place now, and it was hysterical seeing their faces when i repeated what my therapist said to them. they’ve actually been a little nicer lately between that and one other incident that shook them up?
and yeah, i’m feeling a lot better now. had a few good days of rest and turtling with friends and games. it was just. the last two panels of that one strip with mom causing unspeakable pain while saying “i love you” that was the trigger, everything else has been painful and sad and familiar but not so specifically triggering. which is why much as it’d be nice i doubt there’s going to be a good solution willis can make since triggers are unfortunately often so hyperspecific and hard to predict.
that was a ramble, sorry. point is i’m doing better and glad i’ve been pretty stable with the following strips!
464 thoughts on “Siiiventeen”
Ana Chronistic
wait what
those colours aren’t blue OR red?!
what sorcery is this
inqntrol
Clearly that last panel should have been red.
Stephen Bierce
I see it as in transition to red, which it will be next strip.
Michelle J. Caboose
It would have been, if it were Amber’s (or Ethan’s) flashback.
not someone else
This is real colors. Maybe this is Willis saying this is no longer a flashback, this is the objective take on what actually happened?
Fart Captor
The last bit of flashback showing the robbery from Amber’s perspective did something similar, though that wasn’t as close to real colors
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/same/
I think the only significance to it is dramatic effect
BBCC
That’s because that one’s main colour, shading wise, was red, this one’s is blue.
Tan
Just as a note, that is not the last bit of Amber’s flashback to the robbery. This is: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/hostage/
Interesting that Amber’s memory apparently entirely skips over the entire middle of this comic
Ana Chronistic
Well, Sal was yelling the parts Amber overheard, I doubt the rest was quite as loud
Kinoko
This is not real colors. Everything here is a shade of red or blue, but they are different hues of red & blue. Look closer: there are no yellows or greens (but there are oranges and cyans). All the skin tones can be considered a shade of red. Most of the background is blue of a blue-ish off-gray. It’s honestly really well done, as the two red and blue palettes meld together, and I like it. š
Kinoko
*OR a blue-ish off-gray. Typos. Blah.
JessWitt
Iām hypothesizing it could be relived trauma. For either Sal or Ethan.
Or the rest of this storyline will now take place in this perspective of time.
Barduwulf
?
butts
yeeeeep
Clif
This is all Ethan’s fault. You see, the clerk is Mike, which is why we can’t see the clerk, so there’s no tag. Mike, with his ability to read people has now said exactly the one thing that makes taking Ethan hostage inevitable. He’s also called the police in advance which is the only possible way they could have shown up, sirens blazing, within seconds of the robbery starting. Mike, it should be remembered, is the one who used blackmail to set up this trip in the first place, knowing it would be hugely stressful for everyone involved. Now, all he has to do is watch as events take their inevitable course and the seeds of Amazigirl are sown. So you see, it is all Ethan’s fault.
Prove me wrong.
MatthewTheLucky
Ah, but in truth it is Naomi’s fault, as the creation of Amazi-Girl is solely to put Ethan under enough stress that he’ll sleep with Mike, which is the one thing Naomi most dreads, thus accomplishing Mike’s goal of figuratively fucking Ethan’s mom
Opus the Poet
Go Team Marcie!
shadowcell
NARRATOR: it was not all forgotten by morning.
Bagge
š
Durandal_1707
Well, she didn’t take the cashier’s advice, so we’ll never know.
Kris
I know I’ll never forget that Xtreme mug! 96 ounces people! That’s insane!
DSL
Technically, that ought to be called a “pitcher.”
Michelle J. Caboose
Where I live, it’s not legally considered a pitcher unless it has a pour spout.
That means you can take one of those giant novelty beer mugs into a bar and have it filled up, even if you’re the only person at the table, and it doesn’t count as the bar selling a pitcher to a single person. On the other hand, if you’re at the bar/club by yourself, you can’t have your beer served in one of those tiny creamer jugs. BECAUSE IT’S LEGALLY A PITCHER. >_<
Miri
Can you not purchase a pitcher to consume on your own then? I mean in fairness the only place I’ve done that was Wetherspoons and their cocktails are really weak… And technically that was two pitchers between two people?
Deanatay
No, Sal, listen to the disembodied vo – ehh, never mind, we know how this turns out…
Kris
Okay I don’t know about this one. You’re telling me Sal had an out and doubled down?! Conflicted feelings here!
porto
I mean, Sal’s not exactly the best at making touch decisions in the heat of the moment.
And that’s coming from me, a guy who almost threw a chair at another dude.
Bagge
To be fair, that chair was a jerk
Durandal_1707
Steve Ballmer, is that you?
SgtWadeyWilson
Almost? Well, see, you have way more self control than me.
…but I didn’t have a friend who might get an important surgery if I threw the chair well enough, so I’m not gonna judge Sal for this call.
Fart Captor
She’s pretty conflicted herself, but for the moment her doubts about this being the right thing to do or even a good idea sound just like being too scared to help Marcie, so she’s pushing through it :/
Sionyx
We haven’t seen much indication of adults in Sal’s life giving her much of a chance. She’s had a REALLY rough time of it leading up to this moment, and unfortunately, that out just came too late.
Sporky
Honestly, I read it as her feeling guilty and deciding to get caught on purpose.
Kinoko
Interesting! I read it as her doubling down because, hey, she’s already come this far, fuck it, right? Sal’s pretty stubborn. But I like that it can be read other ways, too!
BBCC
Could be a mix of guilt and saying ‘fuck this’ – after all, she has a couple people at home she probably wants to piss off right now (especially since she is definitely not getting the money for Marcie now).
thejeff
I’m not sure that really makes sense though – even in her messed up state.
If she’s definitely not getting the money and has a way to get away, why take the hostage. We’d originally thought that was to make the clerk give her the money and it only really makes sense if she’s still thinking that.
If she was just trying to get caught, she could just stay and rant until the cops come in.
BBCC
Fair point.
Miri
How does “I am not a kid. I am fed up with being treated loke a kid and being dismissed. What do I need to do to be taken seriously here??” work for you?
Wraithy2773
I think it’s important that she has an out. That she has this way to avoid all of the punishment and judgement and sneering that comes afterwards (…….well, okay, most of it).
Because while she has a somewhat noble reason for all of this, the saying remains true: There’s nothing like a good cause to bring out the worst in people.
I don’t think we’re supposed to be cheering Sal on. I think we’re supposed to be seeing that, while Sal has good intentions, she’s doing something horrible to fulfill them.
lilyliv
For a character without a face or a name, I really like the store clerk here.
Nono
Store clerks seem to generally be pretty good in Willisverses.
Clif
Mike is the best.
Keulen
The store clerk seems pretty awesome here.
Axel
yeah seriously. But clerks often know how shit works.
Needfuldoer
And he wasn’t even supposed to be there today!
dralou
Is it common for a man to call a kid “hon” ? One he has no family connexion to ?
Actually, is it common that a clerk, whatever their gender is, call a kid customer “hon” ?
I’m asking because this looked really weird to me ever since we first met this specific clerk.
Knayt
It’s regional – it wouldn’t draw any attention in the south, and in the west it doesn’t draw much (it’s notable, but not weird). I can’t speak for Indiana in particular though.
Liquid Len
In the Northeast it’s mostly associated with diner waitresses.
vlademir1
In eastern Indiana and western Ohio it’s not exactly common, but it’s also not quite uncommon. When the region was a core manufacturing hub during the mid-twentieth century quite a lot of Southerners migrated here, especially from Appalachia and other poorer, more rural regions of the south for the employment opportunities the region offered. Quite a lot of us descended from them learned some of those mannerisms at home, though the corporate culture of the chain restaurants, large chain retail establishments, corporate owned gas stations, et al that have increasingly infested the region the last forty or fifty years have also largely pushed against addressing the public in such a manner.
Jothki
It’s funny to think that many diners are basically immigrant-run ethnic food places.
Minotaur
Funny, I’ve been reading the clerk as a woman all this time…
Zee
Same. Think its the hon
Needfuldoer
Itās just a Clerks reference, you guys…
JepMZ
I know the clerk is probably a woman, but I pretend it’s a sassy gay guy
Jon Rich
Store clerk is now my favorite character. After everyone who has failed Sal, a line that starts with both her parents and just gets longer and longer, it’s this one anonymous store clerk who tries to give her another chance, when said clerk has the least incentive to do so. That’s really, really powerful, I think. It’s a shame that it was just too little, too late.
Nono
Ethan looks like he’s got a five o’clock shadow there.
shadowcell
puberty comes at you fast
Dean
Trauma has aged him.
chris73
I had sympathy for Sal but thats basically all gone now.
Bonnie
Why? Because she’s a desperate 13 year old? She’s not in the best mindset to be making decisions here.
chris73
I have sympathy for someone right up until they choose to make things worse for someone else.
Yeah she got a bad deal of the cards but now what shes doing to someone else is worse than whats been done to her
I understand why shes doing what shes done but the sympathy I had for her is gone and now I’m more concerned for Ethan and Amber
BBCC
Two questions here:
1) Why did you sympathize in the first place then? We knew going in that she took Ethan hostage.
2) Do you also have no sympathy for Amber after she stabbed Sal? That was also making things worse for someone else (who was detained and no longer a threat I might add).
chris73
1) Why did you sympathize in the first place then? We knew going in that she took Ethan hostage.
Sal made plenty of decisions to get to the situation she finds herself in, some were forced on her, some were of her own choosing but here she had a choice to run or make someone else situation worse than her own and she chose to make Ethans situation worse
2) Do you also have no sympathy for Amber after she stabbed Sal? That was also making things worse for someone else (who was detained and no longer a threat I might add).
I have a lot of sympathy for her situation but little to none for actually stabbing Sal
Kris
Honestly most of this doesn’t matter now since we know what happened. The sympathy or lack there of should wait until we see how this shakes out in the present. What’s more important is what they all decide to do when/if they ever talk about this.
BBCC
1) I still don’t understand. She had that choice in Amber’s flashback too when she saw the bulletproof glass.
2) So do you still have sympathy for Sal’s situation even if not for the robbery itself?
chris73
I’ve given Sal some leeway due to age and circumstances but at some point you are responsible for your own actions.
I can see why she drifted into crime, I can see why she thought robbing the store might be a good idea, I can see why in the heat of the moment Sal might think its her only option but then she was told she’d get nowhere with the knife and then she was told to leave and she’d probably get away with it but she chose to grab a hostage.
I also consider Sals situation to be quite different to Ambers. Amber, to me, has a worse home life than Sal as well as suffering from a mental illness whereas Sal doesn’t seem to be mentally ill
thejeff
But nothing has changed in what we knew. Previously, we had no idea the cops were right there, so there was no reason to think Sal couldn’t just leave. Now we know the cops are there, but she could run out the back. Same situation.
She came in here planning to threaten the clerk with a knife to get money and wound up threatening Ethan instead.
BBCC
What thejeff said and I’d also point out that while Sal’s (so far as we know) she is likewise being largely influenced by trauma (what happened to Marcie) and the actions of a shitbag parent shoving her into a corner.
I guess I don’t really see much of a difference.
Elsendor
(tw for csa mention):
if sal’s not mentally ill with that upbringing i’ll eat my shoes. my parents were very similar to hers and i’m diagnosed with c-ptsd, and, i quote my therapist, “i think your parents damaged your way of thinking more than .”
Elsendor
ack the tw was carrots containing [the person who sexually abused me for three years when i was a prepubescent child] but i guess the carrots got interpreted as botched html.
BBCC
@ Elsendor – I’m so sorry to hear that. Are you feeling better from the last few strips? I seem to recall you were having a hard time with them.
Elsendor
@ BBCC – i’m in a much better place now, and it was hysterical seeing their faces when i repeated what my therapist said to them. they’ve actually been a little nicer lately between that and one other incident that shook them up?
and yeah, i’m feeling a lot better now. had a few good days of rest and turtling with friends and games. it was just. the last two panels of that one strip with mom causing unspeakable pain while saying “i love you” that was the trigger, everything else has been painful and sad and familiar but not so specifically triggering. which is why much as it’d be nice i doubt there’s going to be a good solution willis can make since triggers are unfortunately often so hyperspecific and hard to predict.
that was a ramble, sorry. point is i’m doing better and glad i’ve been pretty stable with the following strips!