Hard to blame her for things Ruth does while she is literally not even in the same room
Demoted Oblivious
Gotta agree with Ray here. Ruth is an adult, literally of age, and is not under any sort of authority of Daisy. Hell, if she were, this would be inappropriate. But even were Daisy present, Ruth’s drinking is not Daisy’s responsibility and it would start an unhealthy dynamic were it so.
Ed Rhodes
Daisy’s in the bathroom. She doesn’t know this is happening.
dej
Is she supposed to Spidey-Sense it and come running out of the bathroom?
Yumi
Look at all these people who don’t get Clif.
He Who Abides
I know, right?
Everyone knows it’s Danny’s fault, he woke up today.
It’s really worrying that she’s drinking not because she’s depressed but because she doesn’t know how to positively interact with a person. It feels more like alcohol as a coping mechanism to any stress and less a side effect of depression.
I mean, we already knew she was an alcoholic. Part of her depression-alcoholism hellspiral was that she hated the fact that she was drinking, because her parents were killed by a drunk driver, but then she kept drinking and that further fueled the self-loathing. That wasn’t going to go away with antidepressants, because it’s a behavior pattern as well, and it was worrying coming out of the timeskip that her takeaway on why she shouldn’t drink was ‘bad with the old meds’ and ‘underage,’ not ‘this would have been seriously concerning for someone in their thirties.’ Since alcohol is also a chemically addictive substance, her drinking again at all is a serious flag that Nothing Good Can Come Of This. (I’d been hoping they were jokes, damn it.)
But also, I wouldn’t be shocked if part of her is unconsciously trying to wreck the date with Daisy (as a comparison, consider Jennifer’s pre-skip hall meeting and how it went from ‘I’m not a perfect cheerleading goddess’ to ‘my current relationship was originally founded in mutual self-loathing and I have a drinking problem and holy shit I’m only now connecting that it almost killed me and my best friend, no wonder she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore’. Same Brain Trying To Sink Other Relationships So People Don’t Waste Their Time On Garbage Like You impulse, slightly different manifestations.) Which is very much a depression thing, born out of low self-worth. Just because Ruth isn’t currently suicidal doesn’t mean she’s not slipping. Probably in part due to her isolation – waking up alone seemed to remind her how she screwed up with Jennifer, and despite hall sweethearts like Sierra and Agatha trying to include her, the fact that she’s RA definitionally sets her apart. Also from experience, singles can make it very easy for you to isolate yourself if your brain’s already being troublesome. Especially since symptoms of depression often include physical fatigue and exhaustion, so you might just think ‘oh, I’m a bit more tired than usual’ and not notice you’re taking four-hour afternoon naps and going to bed at 8 PM to sleep until 10 AM. Easier for a roommate to tell the door’s not just closed to study. (Not that that’s definitely going on with Ruth yet, but an example that someone who hasn’t trained their brain to recognize their early signs might miss.)
RassilonTDavros
“Also from experience, singles can make it very easy for you to isolate yourself if your brain’s already being troublesome”
This. Seconded to hell and back.
Leah
Just came here to second that as soon as I read it. So… thirded?
I know it’s humor, possibly self-depreciating, but I can’t help but be bothered by Ruth’s notion that it’s traditional for her to bully and insult her partners. Like I get it’s not so simple and she’s an overall good person, but describing it that way…
I think she is at heart a good person struggling with an unhealthy mental mindset she was lashing out due to her self loathing but felt bad about it and got much better quickly when helped but we see here she’s not recovered yet and it will be hard she definitely is worried about how she treats people
Spencer
It depends on your definition of a good person, ’cause like, the nicest thing you can say about pre-character development Ruth is that she did her job sometimes in between focusing her abuse on Billie to the extent that the rest of the dorm never really dealt with it, to the point where Rachel apparently feels guilty she never stood up to Ruth for it.
I don’t know what makes a truly good person, but to me a truly bad person who knowingly and systematically breaks down your safety and comfort for their own gain. That’s Blaine, that’s Clint, that’s Ross no matter what he told himself, and, well, that used to be Ruth.
Samantha
Th a ts fair but she also was pretty early on obviously felt bad about her worst tendencies and started improving quickly once she got some help which makes her seem less malicious and more sympathetic. She seems to have turned her abusive streak inward even more which is not a good thing. No one in this series is okay exactly accept Dinah and Sarah
MrSmith
In my country there is a belief that prisoners are “good people who’ve done bad things”, this idea is noble but extremely flawed
You may have good intentions but if your actions are bad (or harmful or whatever) then you are a bad person, it doesn’t mean you can’t change but, for now, you are a bad person because you do bad things to people (mental illness aside)
Spencer
It sounds like your country has it right more than you do. Prison exists to rehabilitate, not punish, and if a prison exists only for punishment, if it continues to punish you after you’ve left, then it doesn’t deserve to exist.
Life ain’t so binary.
MrSmith
You are incorrect. Prisons are, in effect, time out.
Saying prisons (or society) can force a criminals behaviour to change is like saying an addict can be forced to go clean
It isn’t going to work, in most cases, because change only happens when the prisoner (or addict, in most cases both at the same time) wants to and chooses to change
Also I work in my countries prisons as a Corrections Officer so this isn’t theory for me
Spencer
It’s probably a good thing I didn’t say they can be forced to change, and if you don’t believe in rehabilitation you probably shouldn’t work in a prison.
MrSmith
You probably shouldn’t tell someone that has been involved in riots, staff assualts and suicide attempts (and remained relatively unscathed) where they should or shouldn’t be working because I’ve earned the right, through time on the floor, to have the opinions I have
I didn’t say I don’t believe in rehabilitation. I said that without the prisoner wanting to and choosing to rehabilitate then rehabilitation won’t work
You can lead a horse to water maybe a cliche but it only became a cliche because of the element of truth to it
Yes you didn’t say they can be forced to change but the point I’m making is without the prisoners buy in rehabilitation, virtually, never happens
BBCC
You have the right to your own opinions and your experiences, but the data available says that Spencer is right and that rehabilitative approaches are more successful and that they lower reoffending rates. That’s why prison reform and prison abolition have both been picking up steam lately.
MrSmith
“rehabilitative approaches are more successful and that they lower reoffending rates.”
Of course rehabilitative approaches are more successful than not rehabilitating.
That is not in dispute.
The point I’m trying to make is you can’t make someone rehabilitate that doesn’t want to.
You can make them sit in the chair, you can coerce them, you can use any number of inducements but you can’t make them learn it once they’re in the room
So yes if someone wants to rehabilitate and use the courses available then they’re less likely to reoffend but how do you make someone want to rehabilitate in the first place
BBCC
You seem to be under the impression I’m talking about rehab being voluntarily undertaken. I’m referring to rehabilitative approaches given as part of a sentence, whether the person wants to do them or not. Those still have higher rates of success and cutting on re-offending than prison.
Yumi
Hm, this is pretty yikes.
Anyway, prisons are a mess. Here, at least, and it certainly sounds like it in your country too.
MrSmith
They certainly are and its actually worse than people think
“How’s life treating you, Norm?”
“Like a baby treats a diaper.”
If you want more of the Cheers universe, try Wings. (Yeah, Frasier is also in the same universe, but it’s more of its own thing.) Fun fact: Cape Air still owns and operates the plane used to shoot the intro.
I think Booster was definitely on the nose about Ruth trying to play the part of herself and act like she did at the beginning of the year. She seems torn between acting like a version of herself she’s “comfortable” with, and trying to move on. Panel 5 gives me hope, but Panel 6 has me uncertain.
I thought you were supposed to clean up first, before you do that. Not that I would know.
Demoted Oblivious
Hmmm.. I wasn’t really expecting an analysis, butt.. It’s presumably a bit tidier if you do (clean up first), but really it boils down to what’s desired and consented to between partners. And presumably the heat of the moment.
119 thoughts on “Cross purposes”
Ana Chronistic
If I’ve learned anything from Saiki K., it’s that nice people can definitely think terrible things, so maybe consider that and save your kidneys
(idk for absolute certain tho, I’ve had limited “nice vs. not nice” sexual experience)
JaneDoe
I hope nice people can think terrible things because it they can’t then I’ve been fooling myself by ever thinking I was nice…
Sirksome
I’m a little worried now but also weirdly optimistic about the Ruth x Daisy ship?
Thag Simmons
It’s probably doomed, but hopefully it’ll ultimately be a positive thing
Clif
Hey, Jennifer specifically told Daisy not to let Ruth drink. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/04-hompk/hooking/
Whatever happens now is definitely Daisy’s fault.
Ray Radlein
Hard to blame her for things Ruth does while she is literally not even in the same room
Demoted Oblivious
Gotta agree with Ray here. Ruth is an adult, literally of age, and is not under any sort of authority of Daisy. Hell, if she were, this would be inappropriate. But even were Daisy present, Ruth’s drinking is not Daisy’s responsibility and it would start an unhealthy dynamic were it so.
Ed Rhodes
Daisy’s in the bathroom. She doesn’t know this is happening.
dej
Is she supposed to Spidey-Sense it and come running out of the bathroom?
Yumi
Look at all these people who don’t get Clif.
He Who Abides
I know, right?
Everyone knows it’s Danny’s fault, he woke up today.
Keulen
At least Daisy might finally get laid, but I’m not sure if they’ll actually become a couple.
Regalli
Yeeeeep. Definitely self-loathing and self-destruction going on. Definitely something that alcohol won’t aggravate further!
Hoo boy.
Sirksome
It’s really worrying that she’s drinking not because she’s depressed but because she doesn’t know how to positively interact with a person. It feels more like alcohol as a coping mechanism to any stress and less a side effect of depression.
StClair
probably, yeah. 🙁
Regalli
I mean, we already knew she was an alcoholic. Part of her depression-alcoholism hellspiral was that she hated the fact that she was drinking, because her parents were killed by a drunk driver, but then she kept drinking and that further fueled the self-loathing. That wasn’t going to go away with antidepressants, because it’s a behavior pattern as well, and it was worrying coming out of the timeskip that her takeaway on why she shouldn’t drink was ‘bad with the old meds’ and ‘underage,’ not ‘this would have been seriously concerning for someone in their thirties.’ Since alcohol is also a chemically addictive substance, her drinking again at all is a serious flag that Nothing Good Can Come Of This. (I’d been hoping they were jokes, damn it.)
But also, I wouldn’t be shocked if part of her is unconsciously trying to wreck the date with Daisy (as a comparison, consider Jennifer’s pre-skip hall meeting and how it went from ‘I’m not a perfect cheerleading goddess’ to ‘my current relationship was originally founded in mutual self-loathing and I have a drinking problem and holy shit I’m only now connecting that it almost killed me and my best friend, no wonder she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore’. Same Brain Trying To Sink Other Relationships So People Don’t Waste Their Time On Garbage Like You impulse, slightly different manifestations.) Which is very much a depression thing, born out of low self-worth. Just because Ruth isn’t currently suicidal doesn’t mean she’s not slipping. Probably in part due to her isolation – waking up alone seemed to remind her how she screwed up with Jennifer, and despite hall sweethearts like Sierra and Agatha trying to include her, the fact that she’s RA definitionally sets her apart. Also from experience, singles can make it very easy for you to isolate yourself if your brain’s already being troublesome. Especially since symptoms of depression often include physical fatigue and exhaustion, so you might just think ‘oh, I’m a bit more tired than usual’ and not notice you’re taking four-hour afternoon naps and going to bed at 8 PM to sleep until 10 AM. Easier for a roommate to tell the door’s not just closed to study. (Not that that’s definitely going on with Ruth yet, but an example that someone who hasn’t trained their brain to recognize their early signs might miss.)
RassilonTDavros
“Also from experience, singles can make it very easy for you to isolate yourself if your brain’s already being troublesome”
This. Seconded to hell and back.
Leah
Just came here to second that as soon as I read it. So… thirded?
Alanari
That is what alcohol is for an alcoholic. It can be difficult to deal with basically anything if you’re used do drown everything in alcohol.
NotThatDrew
Going for the Walkyverse Mike approach I see
Kagimizu
I know it’s humor, possibly self-depreciating, but I can’t help but be bothered by Ruth’s notion that it’s traditional for her to bully and insult her partners. Like I get it’s not so simple and she’s an overall good person, but describing it that way…
Kagimizu
….I feel like my icon is ironic given my post.
MrSmith
Juries still out whether she is, overall, a good person
Samantha
I think she is at heart a good person struggling with an unhealthy mental mindset she was lashing out due to her self loathing but felt bad about it and got much better quickly when helped but we see here she’s not recovered yet and it will be hard she definitely is worried about how she treats people
Spencer
It depends on your definition of a good person, ’cause like, the nicest thing you can say about pre-character development Ruth is that she did her job sometimes in between focusing her abuse on Billie to the extent that the rest of the dorm never really dealt with it, to the point where Rachel apparently feels guilty she never stood up to Ruth for it.
I don’t know what makes a truly good person, but to me a truly bad person who knowingly and systematically breaks down your safety and comfort for their own gain. That’s Blaine, that’s Clint, that’s Ross no matter what he told himself, and, well, that used to be Ruth.
Samantha
Th a ts fair but she also was pretty early on obviously felt bad about her worst tendencies and started improving quickly once she got some help which makes her seem less malicious and more sympathetic. She seems to have turned her abusive streak inward even more which is not a good thing. No one in this series is okay exactly accept Dinah and Sarah
MrSmith
In my country there is a belief that prisoners are “good people who’ve done bad things”, this idea is noble but extremely flawed
You may have good intentions but if your actions are bad (or harmful or whatever) then you are a bad person, it doesn’t mean you can’t change but, for now, you are a bad person because you do bad things to people (mental illness aside)
Spencer
It sounds like your country has it right more than you do. Prison exists to rehabilitate, not punish, and if a prison exists only for punishment, if it continues to punish you after you’ve left, then it doesn’t deserve to exist.
Life ain’t so binary.
MrSmith
You are incorrect. Prisons are, in effect, time out.
Saying prisons (or society) can force a criminals behaviour to change is like saying an addict can be forced to go clean
It isn’t going to work, in most cases, because change only happens when the prisoner (or addict, in most cases both at the same time) wants to and chooses to change
Also I work in my countries prisons as a Corrections Officer so this isn’t theory for me
Spencer
It’s probably a good thing I didn’t say they can be forced to change, and if you don’t believe in rehabilitation you probably shouldn’t work in a prison.
MrSmith
You probably shouldn’t tell someone that has been involved in riots, staff assualts and suicide attempts (and remained relatively unscathed) where they should or shouldn’t be working because I’ve earned the right, through time on the floor, to have the opinions I have
I didn’t say I don’t believe in rehabilitation. I said that without the prisoner wanting to and choosing to rehabilitate then rehabilitation won’t work
You can lead a horse to water maybe a cliche but it only became a cliche because of the element of truth to it
Yes you didn’t say they can be forced to change but the point I’m making is without the prisoners buy in rehabilitation, virtually, never happens
BBCC
You have the right to your own opinions and your experiences, but the data available says that Spencer is right and that rehabilitative approaches are more successful and that they lower reoffending rates. That’s why prison reform and prison abolition have both been picking up steam lately.
MrSmith
“rehabilitative approaches are more successful and that they lower reoffending rates.”
Of course rehabilitative approaches are more successful than not rehabilitating.
That is not in dispute.
The point I’m trying to make is you can’t make someone rehabilitate that doesn’t want to.
You can make them sit in the chair, you can coerce them, you can use any number of inducements but you can’t make them learn it once they’re in the room
So yes if someone wants to rehabilitate and use the courses available then they’re less likely to reoffend but how do you make someone want to rehabilitate in the first place
BBCC
You seem to be under the impression I’m talking about rehab being voluntarily undertaken. I’m referring to rehabilitative approaches given as part of a sentence, whether the person wants to do them or not. Those still have higher rates of success and cutting on re-offending than prison.
Yumi
Hm, this is pretty yikes.
Anyway, prisons are a mess. Here, at least, and it certainly sounds like it in your country too.
MrSmith
They certainly are and its actually worse than people think
C.T. Phipps
I think its actually quite clear Ruth is a terrible girlfriend. That was never not canon.
He Who Abides
I mean, it seemed like she was getting better, before Willis took Halloween away from us.
Doctor_Who
I watched all of Cheers last year (because 2020), so I’m just gonna assume Jason is cutting up lemons or limes that will never get used in panel 3.
It’s the go-to bartender stage business.
Dean
That, or he’s polishing a glass that’s already clean
He Who Abides
NORM!
Demoted Oblivious
Good afternoon Mister Peterson.
Needfuldoer
“How’s life treating you, Norm?”
“Like a baby treats a diaper.”
If you want more of the Cheers universe, try Wings. (Yeah, Frasier is also in the same universe, but it’s more of its own thing.) Fun fact: Cape Air still owns and operates the plane used to shoot the intro.
Bagge
Things are going… I don’t know what the right word is.
King Daniel
Inexorably forward through time?
Clif
To hell in a handbasket?
Reltzik
Parallel to entropy.
Jamie
Wibbly wobbly.
OBBWG
blargh?
Bagge
That’s the one!
Needfuldoer
They were going okay-ish enough, but Ruth’s self-sabotaging inner voice of doubt won’t shut up.
RassilonTDavros
I think Booster was definitely on the nose about Ruth trying to play the part of herself and act like she did at the beginning of the year. She seems torn between acting like a version of herself she’s “comfortable” with, and trying to move on. Panel 5 gives me hope, but Panel 6 has me uncertain.
Thag Simmons
Booster tends to be on the nose, like generally
Otl1973
Well, since Willis uses Booster as a Greek chorus, yeah…
Sombrero
The old Greek chorus is dead (maybe), long live the new Greek chorus!
Yotomoe
I don’t wanna fuck a nice person. I wanna fuck a real piece of shit.
Bicycle Bill
(cue Lenny and Squiggy) — “Hello!”
StClair
oh lord, it’s been I-don’t-wanna-think-how-many decades and I can still hear that line.
Doctor_Who
Ruth asks Daisy to roleplay a mean person.
Daisy: “Grrr, I hate puppies. Watch me do littering. Is this working?”
Ruth: “No, sorry.”
Daisy: “Rats. Hey, you have a Maple Leafs poster, cool. Aren’t they actually kinda bad though?”
Ruth: “TAKE ME NOW!”
Dean
“….Wear the Dave Keon jersey, though.”
Demoted Oblivious
So… anal?
King Daniel
No, scatophilia.
Needfuldoer
Ruth’s foreplay involves her in a Leafs jersey and her partner in a jersey from whichever team that’s currently leading their division.
2girls1stanleycup
Delicious Taffy
I thought you were supposed to clean up first, before you do that. Not that I would know.
Demoted Oblivious
Hmmm.. I wasn’t really expecting an analysis, butt.. It’s presumably a bit tidier if you do (clean up first), but really it boils down to what’s desired and consented to between partners. And presumably the heat of the moment.
Stephen Bierce
Go and get it…With Your Good Credit
No limits…With Your Good Credit
(Don’t Leave Home Withou~out It!)
Stephen Bierce
You don’t need no green to make your scene!
Bicycle Bill
You can get anything you seek,
For a dollar down, and a dollar a week.
Bicycle Bill
There’s maybe four ways that this can go where everything works out nicely, tops – and something like 2¹² ways this is going to go completely to shit.
Lokitsu
So which Avenger has to die this time? Because I’m willing to sacrifice Hawkeye and maybe even a couple of Guardians if it’ll help Ruth out.
Thag Simmons