173

Forty
Posted on October 16, 2019 by David M Willis

173 thoughts on “Forty”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    IDontKnowWhatIExpected.gif

    (I mean, *I* knew right away but ended up staying in the closet bc coming out means having to talk to people and ick)

    [“You don’t have to ANNOUNCE it” yeah but I’m also lazy and I haven’t had any particular incentive to make production out of it beyond doing some crossplay now and again]

    1. MaddMaxx

      Hey I didn’t know til I was 17
      We all realize it at different rates it’s all valid

      1. ian livs

        And I didn’t really figure it out until 24! (Baymax voice: “I am not fast.”) It’s all okay~ 🙂

        1. MaddMaxx

          Sometimes I wish I had known sooner so I could have already transitioned but like there’s no point in worrying about it ya know?

        2. xeno200

          I knew back in my teens but didnt say anything becaus of family. After my parents divorce and stuff Had a really hard emotional breakdown and told my older brother while blubbering like a baby. that was a 2 years ago feel much better now and wish I had just said F it earlier and done it

        3. Leorale

          33 here, and still questioning.

          Eh. My gender shall be Fuck The Haters.

        4. rose

          it’s never ever too late

        5. JBento

          THAT IS AN OPTION?!

        6. vitalProximity

          Yes. Also known as, genderqueer…?

          (Question mark indicates, I think this is correct, so someone please tell me if I’m wrong. I’m 25 and beginning to think I may fall into this camp, so… *shrug*)

        7. Somekindaname

          I believe the phrase the kids use nowadays is “same hat?” In which case, same hat.

        8. MaddMaxx

          The most valid gender

        9. theVoidWatches

          I didn’t figure it out until literally the moment I learned what “nonbinary” meant and was like, “ah, yes, that’s me.”

          This was when I was 21, so it did take a while.

        10. Lin

          I’m literally a scholar who specializes in queer and trans studies (among other things) and it was my UNDERGRADS who I TEACH who were like “hey, Krista, has it occurred to you that most cisgender people don’t say that their gender is ‘if you insist?’.” Hello, I realized I was non-binary at 37, after getting a PhD with a focus in queer indigenous studies.

        11. oz

          THIS STORY IS AMAZING, THANK YOU FOR TELLING IT

        12. Mel

          Haha, sounds like me, every time I had to fill that in I’d put “the gender binary is an illusion “, without realizing it’s not really just a political statement anymore

    2. Kamino Neko

      I basically have known forever. I was 30 when I ‘fluid’ is a perfectly valid identity, and the fact I sometimes felt more a dude didn’t invalidate my being a girl most of the time. I am now 42, and still only out to some people.

      1. modulusshift

        I see you and your Tedd avatar

        1. Kamino Neko

          Yep!

          (Also, she’s got purple hair, and she’s a kitty here…so, it’s, like, perfect for me.)

    3. Rezby

      Same, for a lot. I’ve known I was a girl since my early teens and I’m 26 now but I’m still closeted to p much my entire family. Only my gf and friends know. I finally finally started hormones in April and the changes are subtle but pleasing.

      It’s not that I’m lazy per se, it’s more that I’m terrified of the repercussions and having to constantly explain myself. It’s much easier, much safer, to pretend to be a guy at work and in public and around my family.

      ._.

      1. Morleuca

        Took to my mid-40s to drop my guard enough to acknowledge who I really am, and allow myself to finally move forward on fixing my “lifelong chemical imbalance”.

      2. Ana Chronistic

        actually yeah, the bulk of my hesitation is I don’t want to have to deal with urinals

        or, at least, the whole part with “other people can see you even if it’s ‘considered’ rude to look”

        I’m basically Walky in a girl body (NO not Sal, Sal is COMPLETELY different)… eh, effort, I’m already in this identity, I’ll come out when it literally doesn’t matter if I do

    4. bendy

      figured it out around… 12, 13? or rather, the first time I learned that it was even a THING, an option, I was like ‘That, yes please, right now’. My family wasn’t down, so it took a few more years to be one to the rest of the world, and now, only the people close to me know I was ever anything other than ‘bendy’… Happy now.

    5. Eusis

      I think I figured it out as a teen… sort of… but I wasn’t 100% sure and just buried it before I could get it out to anyone in real life (did go declare I wanted to be a girl in IRC, because of course that’s how nerdy kids in the late 90s would let it out.) Well, and the 90s were not a great time period for trans awareness, at all.

    6. Opus the Poet

      The bassist for Jethro Tull didn’t transition until well after the band called it quits because he didn’t want to be a distraction from the band. How early she knew has never been publicized AFAIK. And while I know her deadname I do not know who she is now, so no further identity will be discussed.

      1. thejeff

        Dee Palmer? Keyboards, not bass, back in the 70s. She’d left the band long before the breakup or her transition though.

        Or did one of their bassists transition too?
        Hard to say – they’ve had quite a few bassists. 🙂
        Palmer is the only member I’ve seen anything about though. And she apparently said the delay was more due to her long-time marriage than anything to do with the band.

    7. Taeryn

      I didn’t start really questioning myself till i was in my late 20s, sort of accepted it at 30, and now fully realize that hey i’m a girl at the ripe young age of 32 so don’t feel bad Ana!

  2. sirconanad

    LIke you would do that really, Carla, come on, be serious.

    1. Doctor_Who

      Of course not.

      Carla would build a machine to trick Malaya into saying she’s not better than everyone else.

      1. Airyu

        It would have the best glowy lights

  3. Axel

    It’s okay Carla, it only means this isn’t the reason you’re better.

    1. Bathymetheus

      I suspect Carla agrees with Khan Noonian Singh, i.e. she’s better at everything.

      1. Bathymetheus

        We may hope that that is the only attitude she shares with him.

      2. Fogel

        KHAAAAAAANNN!!!!!

        (someone had to, right?)

        1. Roborat

          Thanks for taking on for the team.

        2. Roborat

          Shit, proofread before posting, not after; “one” not “on”.

  4. ObiKemnebi

    …If she turns out to be enby, and that’s my representation in this comic… Imma be annoyed until she gets a giant personality upgrade.

    1. Doctor_Who

      Fl4k vs Malaya: Who would win and why is it Fl4k?

    2. Viktoria

      I’m pretty sure Sue the TRex has shown up in a Dina strip, which HAS to be better than a thousand Malaya strips.

      1. Deathjavu

        Also showed up in a young Walky/Sal strip iirc.

    3. Foxhack

      I think it was implied Malaya thought they were enby.

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/women/

      Trying to use neutral pronouns here. The fact they said “I’m not sure I am one (woman)”, AND the fact they wear that kind of clothing (and not something masculine / less body shape showing off) made me think “Oh, they’re enby.”

      ‘Course I might just be a dumbass and misunderstood everything here.

      1. Foxhack

        To clarify, I think that if Malaya thought they were male, then they wouldn’t want wear the kind of clothing they usually do, because it’s quite noticeably female. In theory. As I said, I’m probably a dumbass and I have no idea how gender stuff works since I’m cis.

        1. ASTAPHE

          For reference, it is fairly normal for closetted trans people to wear clothing associated with their assigned at birth gender, even if there are less gendered options available. There are a lot of reasons for that: fear of being discovered being the most obvious, but there are subtler reasons. Sometimes one might dress a way simply because they don’t know how to dress another way yet. (references: my own experience)

        2. NewbieLurker

          As a transman I wore very feminine clothing until the point I was able to transition, I was kind of in denial, I knew how I felt and what I was but wanted to not be trans so that was my way of, I don’t know, trying to change my nature, of course it didn’t work and I transitioned at 19 but I’m just saying, it’s perfectly possible for trans people in the closet to wear typical clothes of the gender they don’t identify at.

          It must have something to do with the kind or level of dysphoria one feels, some trans people get very triggered from the thought of painting their nails in a trans man case for example, me I don’t care, I let a friend practice her nail art skills on my nails, I take it off when she is finished but I don’t care, I could wear a dress and not be triggered, I had really bad body dysphoria before getting surgery but in my case that doesn’t translate to clothing or doing “girly” things like knitting, everybody is different.

          PSA I’m not saying knitting is only a woman’s hobby, I mean the way that society views and how that can influence the dysphoria a trans person feels while performing those things.

        3. Jess

          Not to mention that clothing isn’t any more gendered for trans and non-binary people than it is for cis people. I have a good friend who is a trans lady, and she barely dresses any differently now than before her transition (which is to say she is incredibly butch). It’s more common for trans girls to wear both pants and skirts just as it’s more common for cis girls to wear both pants and skirts, but that’s because society disapproves of men in skirts and trans men, even more than cis men, often have to perform their masculinity very rigidly (whether for others’ validation of their gender or to ensure their own safety). But it’s all a spectrum and all up to the individual! It’s universally best to avoid stereotypes until one knows what’s going on.

        4. Jess

          Clothing isn’t any more innately gendered, I should say. Obviously people apply gender expectations to all sorts of wacky things.

        5. NewbieLurker

          That too, but my comment was already getting too long, a woman may enjoy wearing suits and a man may like dresses and that’s perfectly fine no matter if they are cis or trans, clothing is not inherently gendered, history and other cultures are proof enough of that.

        6. thejeff

          Though it’s interesting that most cultures have strongly gendered clothing taboos – even if those aren’t consistent between cultures. They always seem to be there.

          Generally much more strongly than in our modern times.

      2. Yumi

        I’m also tempted to use “they” for Malaya, but I also want to point out that various non-binary people may use he or she or other pronouns. So Malaya could be non-binary and still be fine with, or prefer, being referred to as “she.”

        1. LeslieBean4shizzle

          In situations like this, I attempt to avoid pronouns entirely and simply refer to Malaya as Malaya until the comic answers what Malaya’s preferred pronoun is.

        2. SillyGoose

          Yeah it’s tricky. I’ve been using they because I feel that when you don’t know it’s probably the less-bad choice, but I guess going with saying Malaya’s name over and over again is a good solution, plus I’m sure Malaya get get on board with this ^^

    4. Pacce

      Malaya is perfect.

      1. Nep

        Agreed.

  5. CMasta

    Torn between my innate disgust of Malaya’s character/personality and support of them coming to terms with themselves.

    I don’t like you Malaya but I’m cheering for you on this specific journey.

    1. LeslieBean4shizzle

      Likewise.
      One can dislike the person and still sympathize.
      Or at least I can.

    2. abysswatcher1993

      It’s basic sympathy. You can hate an asshole, even if you know you would punch their faces. Like, respecting the pronouns of a trans person, but still punching their stomach for saying something hateful or harming a friend.

      1. abysswatcher1993

        respect an asshole even if you would punch their faces.* I messed my own sentence.

      2. LeslieBean4shizzle

        Um… well, I personally wouldn’t have put it that way.

        With the exception of discussions of super heroes, I wouldn’t use punching as any part of an example about human discourse. Particularly discourse involving minorities.

        To quote a great author: “Yikes forever.”

    3. Jamie

      I mean, if I don’t like a character, I just not-care about strips in which they’re being all protagonisty. Plenty of characters I enjoy, and the overall story tends to be good, and I can always go back and speed through the relevant strips if I need a refresher. Tags are neat.

    4. Keulen

      I’m not torn, I can like that Malaya’s going through this journey while still disliking how Malaya treats most people.

      1. Seregiel

        Maybe she will treat other people better when she has some empathy for herself?

    5. PB

      Yep. Sympathy is normal for this, as is empathy, but it doesn’t make Malaya a good person. It just makes her … a person.

  6. Abdomino

    Malaya gazed into egg_irl and it gazed back.

  7. Stephen Bierce

    *”Flying Saucer” continues*

  8. ian livs

    Malaya is relatable here, dammit

  9. Shane Wegner

    You’re rich, that’s clearly superior to the poor peasants.

    1. Keulen

      Until the poor rise up and eat the rich.

  10. Yumi

    Love Carla in this strip. I can also relate to Malaya, so I’m mixed about that.
    I realized I was queer when I was thirteen, first questioned my gender at sixteen. For some people, that’s young, but I remember feeling stupid that it had taken me “so long” to figure it out. Some people really have known as long as they can remember, and that made me feel inferior in some way for a while. But it’s seriously not a race.

  11. AY

    Needed this right now

  12. Kyrik Michalowski

    Don’t humanize Malaya, now it’ll make her weird inability to act like a human at other times even weirder. Oh well, at least we haven’t gone back to humanizing Mike.

    1. Sirksome

      I appreciate it actually. It makes the world feel more real that even the unlikeable characters have nuance and diffrent sides of their personality. It would make things worse if characters like Mike, Mary, or Malaya were just one note assholes, because that’s now how people are. It would get kind of tiring honestly. The only characters truly guilty of lacking humanity seem to be the adults.

      1. Nono

        I don’t want to humanize Ryan.

        1. Sirksome

          No one’s trying to humanize Ryan, but I’d like to think people now the difference between someone being unlikable and an actual criminal. Although Ryan does force me to adjust my theory with him specifically not being in the basd adult category.

        2. Pablo360

          If we can’t acknowledge that even the worst people are, in fact, humans, then we end up in a situation where we deny the possibility that anyone we do humanize could do something on that level. Humanization isn’t just about creating empathy.

        3. thejeff

          OTOH, characters aren’t people, strictly speaking. They can just be caricatures. Sometimes the starting point is off enough that humanizing them distorts what’s interesting about the character.

          Willis is in an interesting position here, since this comic takes a much more humanistic approach to characters from earlier cruder works where some very much weren’t. Not so much Malaya, but Mike definitely doesn’t translate well. Robin would be the other big example. The point of both characters was their inherent ridiculousness in that already over the top setting.
          And it’s not so much “worst people” or “unlikable”, but the ways in which they’re awful. I think you could humanize some of the adult villains and still keep their essential villainness more easily than you could do so to Mike or Robin without losing their essential nature.

  13. Jess

    GEN-DER. GEN-DER. GEN-DER.

    1. Anywhere

      *slams fists on tables

  14. Sirksome

    It’s interesting that Carla is the perfect person to talk to about this by having first hand experience but also not because she sucks at talking about anything seriously or not bragging about herself. Pretty unique character development opportunity here.

    1. Cerberus

      And it’s a topic that is most likely to have her let down her shell. I’m so here for this.

  15. DailyBrad

    Carla’s face in the last panel is a treasure.

    I’ve warmed on Malaya a little bit, at least in comparison to most, but I think a lot of it is that they have a friend of mine’s haircut.

    1. Jhon

      When Malaya is unsure of herself, she’s cute.

  16. Mra

    Hm, based on some comments about why she loved super car, and how it helped her through things she did not understand at the time, I had assumed that was a reference to some thing about her being trans, but that doesn’t quite fit if she knew what she was feeling right away.

    1. Aletheia

      There’s a difference between knowing and understanding (and/or being able to live with everything that our society throws at trans people still D: ), though.

    2. C.

      So Carla’s a Gerry Anderson fan?

      1. Opus the Poet

        Wrong universe. Supercar is Carla in the Walkyverse.

        1. Kamino Neko

          Ultra-Car. She is Ultra-Car.

        2. thejeff

          And we’re pretty sure she’s Spider-car.

          Pretty sure.

  17. Slartibeast Button, BIA

    So is this a dominance game thing, like with inflatable neck pouches?

    1. Clif

      I bet Carla could engineer the heck out of an inflatable neck pouch. But anything can be a dominance game thing. Who is smarter? Who is more trans? Who is more modest? Whose comment is longer? (Did you notice that mine is thirty six words longer than yours?)

  18. Nep

    Carla ???? She’s trying so hard to do good!

  19. abysswatcher1993

    No one is better when it comes to realizing your own gender. Humans are humans, with potential for good and evil, masculinity and feminity, and every non binary thing in human behavior.

    With that said, an edgelord like Malaya and a narcissist like Carla could begin an anti heroe argument of the level of Cable and Deadpool messing with each other.

    1. Emperor Norton II

      Carla a narcissist?

      Heh…

      Hehe….

  20. Bagge

    “I’m completely surperior in every way… just not that specific way.”

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      It is a multidimensional criteria thing about the hypervolume under the hypercurve.

    2. Regalli

      Carla’s superiority does not come from any specific quality that can be copied. It comes from being Carla.

      1. Clif

        The important thing is that Malaya realizes she is being owned (just like Joyce was).

    3. ValdVin

      Now all I can think of is a very miscast Carla as Mary Poppins. “Practically perfect in every way”, is that the saying?

  21. Pablo360

    Hey so uhhhh remind me again why I was supposed to hate Malaya? Because I’m not seeing it and I’m casting aspersions on the idea that I ever did. This is an unmitigatedly cool development.

    I’m betting at least a good third of the Malaya hate is people who are still salty over that disastrous date with Leslie back in Shortpacked!. Much like the Danny hate, it carried over to a universe where it no longer applies, and now it’s inextricable from the perception of the character.

    1. Regalli

      The degree to which Malaya and Sal continue to hate and assume the worst of each other is not a flattering look for either of them, but Malaya definitely gets more flak even though Sal likely started it with the instant Marcie jealousy.

      I also think, comedy aside, smuggling a care-intensive exotic pet into your dorm, letting him wander freely, and making your roommate keep him a secret when you spring his existence on her is a dick move, but it does give us Fuckface, so.

      1. Regalli

        I’m mostly neutral on Malaya, ultimately, but there are at least a couple significant flaws. Which, good. The only perfect character I want is Velociraptor bed. (I also want to get the poor kid therapy because the ‘all actions are performative, no one is genuine’ seems to occur with more than just Sal, and between that and the ‘we are all meat’ dissociation/dysphoria thing earlier the mental health picture painted is… not great.)

    2. Khyrin

      most of my Ire is from Malaya pointing Fuckface’s heatlamp at the door(and AWAY FROM FUCKFACE), then acting affronted when Sal demanded that the bright light not be directed towards her. This is compounded by Malaya’s framing Sal’s threat of violence as Animal Cruelty because it’s Fuckface’s heat lamp.

      1. Sol Karas

        Wait when did that happen? Is that one of the patreon stories?

        1. Deadjolras

          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/brood/

    3. Rectilinear Propagation

      No, I defended Malaya in Shortpacked.

      But her constantly accusing Sal of being fake, often apropos of nothing, was legitimately annoying. If anything I didn’t expect to dislike her as much as I do.

    4. Gandalf007

      She also took every opportunity to dump on Lucy, who had done nothing to deserve it except be genuinely nice.

      I’m glad she’s beginning to work some things out, and as others have said, it makes for a more interesting character for her to not be just an asshole.

      1. thejeff

        It’s the “just an asshole” part that derails the comparison with Sal.

        Sure, Sal’s arguably been just as much a jerk to Malaya as vice versa, but we’ve also seen Sal in much more sympathetic lights. Not just the backstory, but her reaching out and helping others.
        All we saw with Malaya was that she was friendly with Marcie and not much detail on that. Every other interaction was essentially hostile.

        1. Eve

          It also doesn’t help that Sal tries to avoid Malaya and interacting with her, while Malaya at times goes out of her way to interact with Sal and be a dick. Like, two people not getting along and hostile to each other, ok, doesn’t mean they’re bad but just don’t jive well at all. Specifically going out of your way to interact with the person you don’t like so you can throw hostility at them is just the worst kind of dick to me, hate someone all you want but leave them the fuck alone. Like, that one comic where Sal was trying to think if she should say anything about Malayas new haircut and realizing there was no right answer because saying anything or saying nothing are just going to make Malaya act hostile to her sums up exactly what I dislike about Malaya.

          Same reason I dislike Raidah honestly, like, hating Sarah after what happened is one thing but then she would fucking track her down in the lunch room just to throw hate at her.

    5. timemonkey

      Because she’s a flavor of asshole most people don’t seem to find funny. That means everything she does, even when she’s trying to be nice and supportive, is the worst thing ever.

      1. thejeff

        Citation needed. 🙂

        When has Malaya tried to be nice and supportive?

        To be fair, there have been a few moments with Marcie all along and a few more general ones lately, but they’re still rare and often ambiguous. Especially given the broader hostile pattern.

    6. Jhon

      I have not read any of the previous DYW works, and up till now I have regarded Malaya as a waste of a hot character design.

  22. Elsendor

    carla remains the best character in this comic

  23. Rose

    the gear shift between “flippant offhanded remark for public view” and “oh shit they might actually need my help” is a hell of a mood here thanks for capturing it

  24. Regalli

    I know that we’re mostly not revisiting ships from the old universe in this one (barring different twists, like Ruth/Billie’s all-new all-different dysfunction*), but it does make me happy inside to see Carla and Malaya having a heart-to-heart here. I miss Shortpacked sometimes.

    * Which is why I think there’s still a possibility of Danny/Sal, because their dynamic is SO fundamentally different from what it was.

  25. BBCC

    I love this conversation and I love these two.

  26. Joshi

    oh, this is timely for me.

    I wanted to be a girl when I was 12, pushed those feelings down because I knew they made me a freak and I could never tell anyone and it could never happen anyway, struggled with jealousy as like half my friends came out and began transitioning, and now at 32 I’m a couple months into realising “hey those feelings never actually went away, did they?”

    You’ll figure it out, Malaya. It’s never too late.

  27. Bryy

    I’d REALLY like this to be an epiphany for Malaya, but the last panel is kinda destroying that hope.

  28. Fox

    I am intersex, outwardly leaning female, I found out about being intersex only a few years ago. I came out as male at 24, started medical transition almost 2 years ago now and I’ve never felt more myself. It was a presence in childhood I ignored because didn’t know what it was, with puberty the reality became more concrete though I fought it, and in young adulthood I couldn’t take it anymore and had to do something, that’s when I met another man assigned female at birth, and everything clicked. It took time to get up the courage to admit it and to transition, but it was all worth it.

    1. Cerberus

      I’m very happy for you! 🙂

      1. Fox

        Thank you Cerberus, much appreciated.

  29. John Biles

    It is possible this is the funniest thing Carla has ever said; I laughed a lot.

    For once, I am sympathetic to Malaya; there’s few things worse than not knowing what you are or what you want to be.

  30. Plasma Mongoose

    Nothing wrong with admitting to your superiority, personally it is only my overwhelming modesty that prevents me from admitting mine.

    1. Clif

      Truely, you are a model for all us superior people.

      1. Plasma Mongoose

        TY! TY!

  31. BenRG

    Poor Malaya! I’ve always thought that a lot of her issues are a tremendously large inferiority complex and I think that this strip feeds into this. She feels herself lesser and inadequate because she’s questioning these things when in her late teens.

  32. Maggie

    I didn’t realise that I’m trans until my mid-late twenties. Part of why it took me so long was I thought that not having known since I was a child disqualified me, so I can relate to Malaya here.

    1. Cerberus

      Me too!

      All I saw when I was questioning in college was life stories of trans women being super femme kids borrowing their mom’s pumps, so I spent a number of years just assuming it couldn’t have applied to me.

      1. Seregiel

        What gets me about these late discovery stories though, is people (bad and or ignorant ones) tend to say it was a CHOICE when you take that long to learn parts of yourself, even if you always knew SOMETHING was there before. Apparently shaking that 8 ball in earnest and getting “Ask again later” isn’t allowed…even if it was because there was a genuine lack of representation. Thank you for sharing your stories. Strong believer in the more you see, the easier it is to find your identity home.

  33. Reltzik

    No, Carla. Figuring out that you’re trans from the start doesn’t make you better than anyone. You’ll just have to be satisfied with and/or glorified by the five-hundred eighty-one OTHER things that make you better than everyone.

  34. He Who Abides

    Never change, Carla.

  35. Danny

    YES YES HOLY SHIT YES GIVE ME THAT SWEET SWEET REPRESENTATION

  36. ischemgeek

    And SOME folks know something is off since childhood but don’t have language to articulate it till late 20s (hi)

  37. Rabisch

    Malaya needs to go to a psychologist and try to figure out this with professional help.

    1. Fart Captor

      No, she doesn’t? Talking to a therapist couldn’t hurt (assuming she finds one that respects and understands trans and non-binary people), but I wouldn’t say she NEEDS one

      1. Fox

        Hard disagree Fart Captor. Malaya’s assumption that everyone is fake and her intense hostility towards people says she has issues that she NEEDS professional help with. That level of bitterness and anger isn’t healthy and neither is her apparent feelings of inferiority that are tied up with questioning her gender.

        1. Cerberus

          I mean, sure, that stuff probably would benefit from seeing a psychologist, but in this instance, it’s more about Malaya being a questioning person asking an out trans person about their life experiences in the hope of getting some clarity.

          So they’re pretty much doing the right thing here, even if (like half the cast if not more) Malaya would benefit from therapy in the long run.

        2. Regalli

          Yeah, I think the no genuineness/assuming everyone’s like this is a distinct issue Malaya should find a (trans-friendly) therapist to talk about, but this here? This is I think the healthiest single strip of conversation I’ve seen Malaya have for a while.

        3. Fox

          Cerberus, I definitely don’t think Malaya needs therapy because of questioning, just that it’s needed because of the self esteem and trust issues already present. Also, to be clear usually I would say “they” but because I’m not sure of what pronouns are preferred and Malaya has so far seemed fine with “she” that’s why I used it.

  38. DJTsurugi

    I realized I “wasn’t right” when I was eight, which was long enough ago that it would have been extremely dangerous to come out to my mostly redneck family. I kept it inside for many years. ~<3

    1. Bathymetheus

      I hope you feel (and are) safer now.

  39. Cerberus

    Trans Cono!!!! <3

    1. Cerberus

      *convo

  40. Pebble

    I love the comments today. Thank you to everyone for your stories! I still haven’t figured out whatever it is, and I only started figuring something out last year at 37; finding out that other people didn’t figure it out until they were older was a big help in recognising what was going on for me.

    are we just not going to talk about our beloved damnable author, who is like 40 and updated their pronouns recently

  41. Seregiel

    I’m SO sorry for everyone here who found that their identity home came with a more unwelcoming world. Stay safe and keep seeking open hearts with whom to trust your true self. Life is a lot bleaker when you’re forced to be a shadow due to survival mode when you should be able to celebrate YOU.

    1. Seregiel

      And sorry I commented on so many things yesterday after the date… started comment reading and didn’t realize I back paged part through. Things make more sense now.

  42. Yumi

    I remember when I was in middle school, I sort of knew about transgender people– but I assumed that trans rights were *ahead* of gay rights in terms of progress. Why? Because you never heard about transgender issues…so that must mean they were already solved.

    1. Seregiel

      Not that people should be ahead or behind, but the thoughts behind the theory make your head cannon sound like a nicer place to live.

  43. Heavensrun

    You’re golden, Carla, all you gotta do is include an “in that way” at the end and you’re still covered.

  44. Mel

    I found out about the term Genderqueer as a teen (in the nineties!) and lowkey embraced that for myself, but it took me a while to really understand it’s not exactly a standard identity, what that means for me, and even when some of my reactions that I counted as just …normal.. were dysphoric. I’m glad to talk more to trans friends now that I understand that while I might not be transitioning, there’s a lot of out experiences of outward gender vs internal gender I can learn from and relate to.

  45. Chaucer59

    So, Carla thinks Malaya’s trying to back her into a rhetorical corner. I’m not so sure. I think Malaya’s trying to find out if she’s too old to come out as a transman. (Autocorrect tried to make that “transnational.”)

    1. Suitora

      Mal (that’s my gender-neutral nickname for them until something is canon) may or may not be a trans man. Mal may be anywhere on the gender spectrum, they haven’t really made any specific statement related to gender other than “I don’t identify as female”.

  46. Opus the Poet

    I’m superior in some ways (hello, I’m an Unkillable Badass) but there are things that make me think I might be On The Spectrum which hinders me in other ways, like I can’t write prose dialog to save my life, except for porn where who looks for believable dialog anyway?

    So, Superior In Places, normal or below the rest of my life.

  47. Suitora

    Carla may be a horrible person in multiple other areas of life, but at least Carla isn’t truscum. And that’s the real lesson to take from this.

  48. CF

    Aw, don’t make this new gendercult garbage into a storyline. The only reason this “hate the body you were born with” culture persists is because doctors realized transitioners will be paying for surgery and medication their entire lives.

    1. Deadjolras

      what the fuck

    2. Jess

      #yikesm8

      I’m not sure if you’re just out here trolling, but on the off-chance that you are open to learning more about all this, I’m guessing you didn’t know that some trans people don’t feel the need to medically transition. I’m guessing you also didn’t know that trans people (to use today’s parlance) have been around for a very long time.

      Finally, it costs $0 to be respectful of other people’s experiences even if you don’t understand them!

      1. Jess

        Well, apparently I don’t know how to insert links in html, so here they are longform: http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/still-valid and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

    3. Yumi

      Just a reminder to other trans/non-binary people who had the misfortune of reading this comment: You don’t need anyone to validate your identity; no one is you, living in your head, body, soul if you believe in that. And yeah, it sucks that there are people who will go out of their way to insult or harm us, but there is also a growing number of people (cis and trans) who are there to defend and support us.

    4. Suitora

      Ugh… No. Just stop talking about a topic you have no firsthand experience in because you’re going to look tacky and ridiculous.

      You want to know what I felt before I even knew what gender dysphoria was? I constantly thought I was born in the wrong body to the point I literally cried when a doctor examined it and I didn’t know why. The first time I encountered the concept of castrati, I was envious. The first time I engaged in sexual activity, I literally wanted it to end the minute I started it. Looking in the mirror, touching certain parts of my body, would give me a sensation of suffocating.

      I remember thinking I should have been born a girl as far back as 5th or 6th grade. But even before then, I acted in accordance with hyperfeminine stereotypes because in some fashion, I believed that would get people to acknowledge me as I am.

      The first conceptualization of trans that I experienced other than “lol look at the crossdresser” jokes was Ranma 1/2 when Ranma had amnesia and his gender identity changed from male to female. And there was a part of me wondering why in the hell they changed him back to normal. Another early one was the infamous South Park episode, where I actually acknowledged that I felt exactly like Mr. Garrison felt, but that episode only left me feeling in despondence because I was in a situation that I believed I could not FIX.

      I had a failed suicide attempt at 15 because I felt so out of the ordinary that I should have done it. Even after that scare, I still maintained a passive suicidality, wishing I would die but never going through with it because I didn’t want people to figure out the immense psychological turmoil I was going through. The thing that got me to transition despite my horrifically self-effacing tendencies was the absolute realization that if I kept going like this, staying in this body, my suicidal tendencies would inevitably get the best of me because they weren’t getting better.

      This is what people mean when they say “they were born in the wrong body”. It’s not this whimsical belief that I want to be a pretty girl and wear dresses. It’s this disgusting, Kafka-esque body horror that I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It’s the feeling of maybe if you rip off your skin, cut off your Adam’s apple, you might transcend that feeling of strangulation that permeates through your throat, stealing the very air you breathe.

      1. Suitora

        And if, after reading this, you still think this whole “being born in the wrong body” is bullshit, let me give you my cordial permission to go fuck yourself with the heavy end of a spiked baseball bat.

    5. Suitora

      And this whole “born in the wrong body” narrative actually comes from Magnus Hirschfield, a doctor who treated children in the 1900s with deep, unchanging feelings of being born the wrong sex, and gave them HRT to alleviate those symptoms. It was a wildly successful experiment that gave birth to a breakthrough in psychological and medical science.

      1. Emperor Norton II

        Not only that, but more than a hundred years ago; someone who was assigned a boy at birth, but lived in the right community (and in a wealthy family) would indeed go on an overseas trip to some distant relatives; sadly “pass away”, but then the family would come back with a new “niece” instead. And this would (more or less) be accepted.

        It might not have been a perfect system; but at least there was a way for transgenders to become themselves. More than a hundred years ago.

        And let’s not forget that the Nazis burned all the books Hirscfield and his institute wrote on sexuality; including their studies of transgender. That alone set the science on transgender several decades back. So yeah, the main reason many people think of this as a modern phenomena is because of Nazis and other assholes (like CF, but in power) trying to bury the past knowledge as best they could.

    6. Fart Captor

      @CF if you don’t like this storyline I’m sure you are welcome to take your transphobic dumpster fire somewhere else and eat shit

  49. Shyandya

    I am completely amazed at how many non-binary/transpeople appear to be reading this comic, because so many of the first comments are individual’s stories of realization.

    Now, this may be the wrong place to ask this, but I wouldn’t know where else; and sorry for making this about me:
    I thought (think?) that I am a very hetero, cis woman – but at the same time, I feel super fascinated by the drag and queer scene, and sometimes find myself wishing I were
    a) into women (even though I havent yet felt sexually attracted to another woman)
    b) trans/non-binary – but I just don’t think I am.
    I don’t feel like I have to be cis & hetero. So I don’t think that would be the reason for me to suppress any realization.
    Now my question to those of you, who know more about this: is this a normal thing to feel/wonder for a cis person?
    I very much hope I am not just an ignorant whatever… But I really cant figure where to these thoughts and emotions….
    any answers are much appreciated!

    Also: one wonderful comic, this! And I am absolutely surprised by this Malaya twist!

    PS: Is there such a thing as “women/persons who are into drag queens”? and is it ok to be that?

    1. Alacrity Fitzhugh

      Yes.

    2. Yumi

      Hm. As a queer and non-binary person, I’m not sure I’m in the best position to answer with what is normal for a straight, cis person. I have seen it said that wishing you were a different gender/trans/non-binary can be a sign that you are, in fact, that. I don’t think it’s as perfectly “I’ve got some news to tell you” as some people might think or joke it is, though.

      If you were something other than cis and straight, is there anything you’d want to change? What would these changes mean to you, and could you experiment with them? For example, I use they/them pronouns; if that’s something you’re interested in, is there a space or people you could try that out with?

      (Note that pronoun usage also doesn’t have to directly correspond to a gender.)

      I will also say that I didn’t think I thought I had to be straight or cis…like, when I did realize I was queer, it was pretty easy for me to accept. But I had also been crushing on a girl for, like, three years by that point, and just the assumption that I wasn’t “that way”– even though it was “totally fine to be!”– kept me, I think, from realizing it sooner.

    3. Seregiel

      So I can’t answer a lot of those questions but the last one strikes me the most and I’m tired so I’m going to try and word this right (Other people please nitpick away so this can be clear and inclusive): as long as you aren’t reducing someone to only an aesthetic, it is not wrong to like whatever you like and you shouldn’t feel ashamed of those preferences. Now, if you’re asking if it’s in the same vein as people who exoticize others, I think the difference is how you come at it. If there is simply a look you are attracted to than there isn’t a need to be embarrassed because sexual attraction happens where it does. But, if you are being attracted to the presumed experience and life you assign to a person base solely on their looks, than that is effectively fetishizing them/dehumanizing the individual and isn’t really okay. Lots of caveats for two consenting adults who might actually be into Degradation/dollifcation/etc. with emotional transparency etc.

      1. Jess

        ^ I would agree with that — Shyandya, I think it’s important to ask why you find drag queens and queer people so interesting and/or attractive. Is it aesthetic appreciation? Is it envy (and if so, envy for what)? Is it objectification? Is it guilt? How does your attraction interact with the fact that many drag queens identify as cis men? How does your attraction interact with the fact that many drag queens identify as trans women? How do you feel about drag kings?

        Attraction and identity are messy things and they can take a lot of thought to get through! I still haven’t figured out what’s going on with my gender after something like seven or eight years of questioning, and my sexuality still surprises me every few years or so. So it’s fine to keep taking time to think about this sort of thing! Like Seregiel said, though, you’re probably fine as long as you’re not fetishizing/dehumanizing/etc. the objects of your attraction.

        At any rate thanks for being so polite in asking!!

    4. Professional Feeler Healer

      I’m a cis het woman and maybe I understand. I can tell and recognize when people are aesthetically attractive but I’m not interested in sex with another woman. Maybe this means I’m one or two steps in on the kinsley scale but I don’t think I’m Bisexual and I am very secure in my gender identity. I work as a therapist and I have a bit of guilt for having it easier than people who are LGBTQ. I do feel much more emotionally connected with the women in my life and I get really excited when I click with someone. I’ve had friend crushes(?) that don’t feel sexual to me. Maybe it’s disgust at being sexualized by men I don’t like, respect or find attractive, or being dismissed or talked over because I’m a short woman. I feel more comfortable being authentic with queer people and women than with cis het men. I think maybe everyone(even us cis het peeps) could benefit from knowing themselves with more nuance rather than in a binary system. <3 for this community 🙂

    5. LeslieBean4shizzle

      Shyandya – it occurs to me that, if you don’t have any attraction for cis females but do have an attraction to trans females or males who are androgynous, then it might be that you are specifically attracted to people for whom gender is ambiguous but whom have male primary sexual characteristics.
      I don’t know of a word for that specifically (well, a non-offensive one anyway), but I do have a friend who most certainly has similar tastes.
      And actually, I have my own variant.
      I’m firmly bisexual, but I tend towards homoromance – that is, I feel the most comfortable dating other women. Dating men always feels weird and awkward to me. However, being bi, I do enjoy some good old fashion dick now and then. So, back when I was dating, I often found myself attracted to pre or no-op trans women. I felt comfortable dating them because their gender was female, but they still had male anatomy.
      So… maybe that helps? At least, I hope you feel a bit less alone.

    6. Fart Captor

      I can’t speak to the specifics, but gender is bullshit but very really for *everyone*, not just trans and non-binary folks.

      I’m a straight, cis dude and interrogating my own gender has done me a lot of good, because even tho I’ve concluded that prior assumptions that I was male were correct, I realized that what exactly that meant was entirely up to me, and society trying to decide that FOR me had been stifling me in harmful ways (making me too embarrassed to express feelings other than anger, shaming me for enjoying cute things, etc). It’s a realization that allowed me to become a much happier person

      Don’t worry so much about what’s “normal”, especially when it comes to your feelings and having questions

  50. nightshade

    this is one of those times when being known as a pain in the ass comes back to bite you…

  51. Smooti

    Mine was freshman year of college, but I hadn’t felt comfortable firmly asking people to use specific pronouns until… uh…. a couple of days ago I guess?

    It’s a journey, not a destination, I guess.

  52. vivid grim

    for me the realization happened in highschool, complicated by the aftereffects of sexual abuse and objectification. it’s confusing to be AFAB and be expected to demarcate where desire to avoid misogyny ends and dysphoria begins

    malaya’s a shithead but hip hip hooray for a nonbinary character!

  53. Romanticide

    And now I fear Malaya going all “I transitioned this way so I am better than you” *shudders*

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