What if there was coal in the submarine? Would the implosion create a diamond out of the coal?:-P
nothri
Can’t we give ourselves one more chance? Can’t we give ourselves one more chance? Why can’t we give love that one more chance? Why can’t we give love, give love, give love….etc.
Cause love’s such an old fashioned word and love DARES YOU TO CARE FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE EDGE OF THE NIGHT AND LOVE DARES YOU TO CHANGE OUR WAY OF CARING ABOUT OURSELVES!
THIS IS OUR LAST DANCE!
THIS IS OUR LAST CHANCE.
This is ourselves….
(Ice Ice Ba-)
Sweet lightning, I love that song. There’s no letdown like expecting Queen and getting Vanilla Ice.
Who Izzy
Ifeel the opposite
Needfuldoer
It’s not as bad as what Kid Rock did to ‘Sweet Home Alabama’, but it’s close.
Bicycle Bill
Damn right. It’s a good thing Warren Zevon had already passed away or Kid Rock would have gotten his ass sued from here to hell and back.
timemonkey
You can listen to Queen anytime, Ice Ice Baby is a rare and precious gift.
HMRC4EVR
I had to listen to ‘Ice Ice Baby’ for FOUR HOURS EACH WAY going to Myrtle Beach some years ago. It was on a CASSETTE SINGLE in a car player with auto reverse. It wasn’t my car and it’s what the person paying my way down wanted to listen to.
That…my friends…is hell.
Ana Chronistic
I had a dude in the gym put “Beyond My Broken Heart” on speaker. On his shitty smartphone speaker. On repeat. At least twenty times. I swear, songs are even more irritating with the “muzak” treatment of being just audible enough to be an earworm rather than an enjoyable listening experience. Even when I left and came back with my headphones, I COULD STILL HEAR IT through EARBLASTING VOLUME.
At least that was survivable, though. The next time, dude next to me let an SBD… then another. I legit could not breathe and had to bail.
Alt text is probably just a joke, but I genuinely do think that just knowing people care enough to help you is a huge positive, even if they’re not saying quite the right thing.
It depends on the person, and the state of mind. When I’m feeling intensely anxious, depressed, and/ or frustrated, being fed platitudes makes me want to scream and hit things. Relax. Don’t worry. Everything will be all right. Don’t cry. There’s no reason to cry. Smile, be happy. As long as you do your best, everything will be fine. You can do anything if you put your mind to it. Everything’s darkest before the dawn. Aaaaggghhh!
That’s just me, though. We’re not all the same.
I agree that someone needs to talk to Joyce, and encourage her to open up about what she’s been feeling. I suspect that won’t be an easy task. Also, I suspect that Joyce isn’t yet in a place where she’s ready to open up, and share the stuff she’s trying to work through.
These situations are never easy. The best bet would probably to offer to be a supportive ear or shoulder to Joyce when she is ready to talk about this, and also give her information on other useful resources that might be able to help her.
Of course, it’s one thing to write all this out. Personally, I’m a lot better at writing thing than I am at actually doing things, because my brain is weird like that. It’s way easier to think of the right things to do when I’m just sitting and writing than it is when life is actually happening. Then, there’s just too much information to process, and I fail to think of things. In real life situations like this, I’ll be as supportive as I’m able if the other person comes to me, but I’m not inclined to take the initiative. When someone is visibly upset, but not saying anything to me about it, I generally can’t think what to do, so I avoid, avoid, avoid.
I can go and and on about what Billie and Ruth *should* do, but I really wouldn’t do any better facing a real life situation like this. People are really hard.
Oh god yeah, I know that feeling when it comes to the platitudes. Friends are better about it, but if I try venting to my folks they think I’m on the verge of a breakdown, and like, just let me be angry for a bit. Anger is okay!
I do appreciate that they’re trying to help, though, even if they have a tendency to go too far with the “everything is fine” talk.
Captain Button
This is reminding me of the advice on people complaining about more mundane problems, that sometimes people want sympathy rather than solutions.
And the advice on comforting the bereaved, if they ask you why someone had to die, don’t give them platitudes, just say “I don’t know.”
(Not meaning this comment to sound as callous as it seems to be ending up.)
In moments of grief one asks the impossible questions to which one knows the answer – like “I want my Dad back” – but the scream contained within the question has to be let out.
The answer has to be brutal, that is how the world works. Facing oblivion’s flowers is hard, but it has to be done.
Reltzik
Yeah, Joyce definitely needs someone to set her straight.
Because I love proposing awful ideas simply for the spectacle of their awfulness, I nominate Mary.
Spencer
“Joyce have you considered that you crisis of faith is happening is because you’re associating with that sinning harlot?”
That’s totally common, to think of things except when a person needing comfort is right there, and then freezing up or avoiding the person that you wish you could comfort.
What works for me was to just say what’s there: “I don’t quite know what to say. I care about you tho.” It gives me permission to get it wrong, which frees me up to listen. Also sometimes I ask, “would you like a hug-and-listen, a distraction, or to be left alone?” People always seem to know which they’d prefer.
Well…yes. Absolutely. I generally think giving someone hallmark platitudes is super duper the wrong way to do things.
On the other hand “Hey, Joyce, you seemed really hurt by everything that happened and I was worried about you. If you want to talk, anytime, I’m right here to listen and help in any way I can”…that would make me feel a lot better.
So, do not give the platitudes, live the platitudes. Don’t say “I’m here to help because maybe that will make you feel better”. Just…be there to help, and hope (silently) that this will make her feel better.
It… usually is, at least, but Ruth’s more or less right in that last panel. Still, it’s probably not actively harmful, so you should try. Yeah, there’s a risk, but life’s kind of about managing them, and Joyce doesn’t seem /depressed/, just hateful of the planet, which is a fairly valid place to be after the last few major events.
I think in Joyce’s case it’d definitely be helpful to her if she just has support, since there’s nobody who can actively solve her problems right now, and it’s going to be a process she has to go through.
So like, I think it’s really good for Joyce right now to know that, while things have changed, she always has her friends to back her up.
It….. really depends. I’ve been trying to cope with severe depression for most of my life, and some of the things people have said to me while trying to help have actually hurt my immediate mental state enough to tip me over from unmotivated and empty to self-harm, because I went from feeling nothing to feeling like I was worthless and a burden to people around me, and they’d be better if my problems and I weren’t there.
Yeah, I remember that period, that part where just being around other people was a crime and how dare I blight them with my presence. Even just being encouraged made me feel worse because they’re taking time out of their schedule to make me feel better, and they must have so many better things to do!
It took me a while, but I eventually started to grasp that people can like me, and it’s not something that had to be measured or earned.
And speaking from the other side I never knew how to act or what to say. Always too scared of saying the wrong thing to say or do anything other than what I’d normally say.
Totally agree with everyone else. It can be a really random affair for depressed people. What might help shake one person out of stuff might dump another into an even deeper spiral. I’ve gotten in the habit of asking what I can do to support and then just be present and listening if the person is noncommunicative.
And from personal experience, I’ve been the literal worst person to deal with when depressed because I tend to climb inside myself and not come out when I get into a hole, which drives “fixer” personalities up a wall.
If you feel terrible because you think no one likes you then maybe. But if you feel terrible because you think people only do nice things for you when you seem hurt or need sympathy then not so much.
Similarly if you feel bad because you feel useless, like a waste of time and effort and them someone starts wasting time and effort on you that’s not going to work so well. Even if you give them a chance if you still feel depressed then you are caught in a nasty bind where you either assume that the help failed = waste of life. Or you pretend to feel better to make them feel better = ignoring the problem.
Often times unhelpful help can make a person feel better in the short term temporarily alleviating the stress, only for it to come back when the “helper” is gone. For instance, if someone’s feeling bad about their academics which causes them to feel worthless and then they express these feelings of worthlessness to a friend, who tells them not to care so much about academics, they aren’t everything after all. The result could be a temporary relief from stress and depression only to return when other consequential goals such as career success reinforce the importance of academic success forcing the distressed person to again face their sense of failure and worthlessness now with four hours passed and none of which spent studying.
I’m just spit-balling many ways in which unhelpful help can be unhelpful. And of course none of this explores the many more obvious and immediate ways that someone can be unhelpful while trying to help. Such as when the proffer drugs as a solution to feelings of sadness. When their behavior reinforces negative images about the person or the world. Or when their advice is otherwise self destructive.
It definitely helps to know people care, but sometimes the best way to do that is ask ‘do you want a distraction, do you want someone to listen or would you rather be left alone’.
People trying to placate me has always just made me angry and prone to lashing out that they’re wrong. While letting me choose when to reopen interactions has let me calm down, lift my mood by talking with them and then move on past that particular moment.
I agree with the sentiment, even when I read messages on comment boards from people who want to react only to the word and are unwilling to even consider anything resembling context. But keep the thought. It’s a good one.
I bet there’s not even anything on that clipboard. Ruth is just using it so she has something to pretend to pay attention to, so she doesn’t have to make eye contact and engage.
Been there. Psst, Ruth, keep the sound effect you use for text notifications on your phone’s homescreen, so you can play it and fake a text whenever you want.
127 thoughts on “Relinquished”
EdHead
RKO…..
Proxiehunter
Out of nowhere.
Clif
Ruth is right with her last line tho.
Ana Chronistic
“myth: BUSTED”
“STOP TRYNA PROVE I’M ACTUALLY A GOOD PERSON, THAT’S TOO MUCH PRESSURE”
EdHead
Diamonds are made under pressure.
Spencer
Well, Diamond is Unbreakable.
I’m sorry. I just started watching JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure and had to work a reference somewhere.
DarkoNeko
Muda muda muda muda muda muda muda muda !
Spencer
There are other JoJo references to make! Kars was a really cool villain too!
Well, not as cool as Dio. Nobody’s cooler than Dio.
N0083rP00F
Diamonds are one of the Hardest materials out there but they are very breakable. Hard = Brittle
Doctor_Who
They also require that conditions be very hot. I’m sure Billie can supply that too.
EdHead
and because they are ‘under’ pressure… Billie’s topping.
Plasma Mongoose
Pressure: It can turn coal into diamonds or implode a submarine.
dmaxx
What if there was coal in the submarine? Would the implosion create a diamond out of the coal?:-P
nothri
Can’t we give ourselves one more chance? Can’t we give ourselves one more chance? Why can’t we give love that one more chance? Why can’t we give love, give love, give love….etc.
Cause love’s such an old fashioned word and love DARES YOU TO CARE FOR THE PEOPLE ON THE EDGE OF THE NIGHT AND LOVE DARES YOU TO CHANGE OUR WAY OF CARING ABOUT OURSELVES!
THIS IS OUR LAST DANCE!
THIS IS OUR LAST CHANCE.
This is ourselves….
Under pressure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWdLt3Afjrg
Disloyal Subject
(Ice Ice Ba-)
Sweet lightning, I love that song. There’s no letdown like expecting Queen and getting Vanilla Ice.
Who Izzy
Ifeel the opposite
Needfuldoer
It’s not as bad as what Kid Rock did to ‘Sweet Home Alabama’, but it’s close.
Bicycle Bill
Damn right. It’s a good thing Warren Zevon had already passed away or Kid Rock would have gotten his ass sued from here to hell and back.
timemonkey
You can listen to Queen anytime, Ice Ice Baby is a rare and precious gift.
HMRC4EVR
I had to listen to ‘Ice Ice Baby’ for FOUR HOURS EACH WAY going to Myrtle Beach some years ago. It was on a CASSETTE SINGLE in a car player with auto reverse. It wasn’t my car and it’s what the person paying my way down wanted to listen to.
That…my friends…is hell.
Ana Chronistic
I had a dude in the gym put “Beyond My Broken Heart” on speaker. On his shitty smartphone speaker. On repeat. At least twenty times. I swear, songs are even more irritating with the “muzak” treatment of being just audible enough to be an earworm rather than an enjoyable listening experience. Even when I left and came back with my headphones, I COULD STILL HEAR IT through EARBLASTING VOLUME.
At least that was survivable, though. The next time, dude next to me let an SBD… then another. I legit could not breathe and had to bail.
Dragon_Nataku
or that time he was on that cooking show and was cooking rice and went “Rice rice baby”
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Pressure also makes waffles.
Mr. Mendo
Billie’s on the verge of a paradigm shift! Maybe she should have a drink!
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Billie and Ruthie are both starting to sound a bit more like actual counsellors here. I applaud this! Here girls, having a drink…of applejuice. 🙂
Spencer
Alt text is probably just a joke, but I genuinely do think that just knowing people care enough to help you is a huge positive, even if they’re not saying quite the right thing.
Edupoet81
It depends on the person, and the state of mind. When I’m feeling intensely anxious, depressed, and/ or frustrated, being fed platitudes makes me want to scream and hit things. Relax. Don’t worry. Everything will be all right. Don’t cry. There’s no reason to cry. Smile, be happy. As long as you do your best, everything will be fine. You can do anything if you put your mind to it. Everything’s darkest before the dawn. Aaaaggghhh!
That’s just me, though. We’re not all the same.
I agree that someone needs to talk to Joyce, and encourage her to open up about what she’s been feeling. I suspect that won’t be an easy task. Also, I suspect that Joyce isn’t yet in a place where she’s ready to open up, and share the stuff she’s trying to work through.
These situations are never easy. The best bet would probably to offer to be a supportive ear or shoulder to Joyce when she is ready to talk about this, and also give her information on other useful resources that might be able to help her.
Of course, it’s one thing to write all this out. Personally, I’m a lot better at writing thing than I am at actually doing things, because my brain is weird like that. It’s way easier to think of the right things to do when I’m just sitting and writing than it is when life is actually happening. Then, there’s just too much information to process, and I fail to think of things. In real life situations like this, I’ll be as supportive as I’m able if the other person comes to me, but I’m not inclined to take the initiative. When someone is visibly upset, but not saying anything to me about it, I generally can’t think what to do, so I avoid, avoid, avoid.
I can go and and on about what Billie and Ruth *should* do, but I really wouldn’t do any better facing a real life situation like this. People are really hard.
Spencer
Oh god yeah, I know that feeling when it comes to the platitudes. Friends are better about it, but if I try venting to my folks they think I’m on the verge of a breakdown, and like, just let me be angry for a bit. Anger is okay!
I do appreciate that they’re trying to help, though, even if they have a tendency to go too far with the “everything is fine” talk.
Captain Button
This is reminding me of the advice on people complaining about more mundane problems, that sometimes people want sympathy rather than solutions.
And the advice on comforting the bereaved, if they ask you why someone had to die, don’t give them platitudes, just say “I don’t know.”
(Not meaning this comment to sound as callous as it seems to be ending up.)
Clif
You don’t know? You horrible monster you.
DarkoNeko
Yeah, even Han Solo knew.
Willoughby Chase
In moments of grief one asks the impossible questions to which one knows the answer – like “I want my Dad back” – but the scream contained within the question has to be let out.
The answer has to be brutal, that is how the world works. Facing oblivion’s flowers is hard, but it has to be done.
Reltzik
Yeah, Joyce definitely needs someone to set her straight.
Because I love proposing awful ideas simply for the spectacle of their awfulness, I nominate Mary.
Spencer
“Joyce have you considered that you crisis of faith is happening is because you’re associating with that sinning harlot?”
Commodore Jeep-Eep
Cue nose crunching noise.
Leorale
That’s totally common, to think of things except when a person needing comfort is right there, and then freezing up or avoiding the person that you wish you could comfort.
What works for me was to just say what’s there: “I don’t quite know what to say. I care about you tho.” It gives me permission to get it wrong, which frees me up to listen. Also sometimes I ask, “would you like a hug-and-listen, a distraction, or to be left alone?” People always seem to know which they’d prefer.
nothri
Well…yes. Absolutely. I generally think giving someone hallmark platitudes is super duper the wrong way to do things.
On the other hand “Hey, Joyce, you seemed really hurt by everything that happened and I was worried about you. If you want to talk, anytime, I’m right here to listen and help in any way I can”…that would make me feel a lot better.
So, do not give the platitudes, live the platitudes. Don’t say “I’m here to help because maybe that will make you feel better”. Just…be there to help, and hope (silently) that this will make her feel better.
Clif
Live the platitudes. I like that. It’ll be my new platitude.
Is Platitudes the book right after Proverbs or the one just before Psalms?
Rutee
It… usually is, at least, but Ruth’s more or less right in that last panel. Still, it’s probably not actively harmful, so you should try. Yeah, there’s a risk, but life’s kind of about managing them, and Joyce doesn’t seem /depressed/, just hateful of the planet, which is a fairly valid place to be after the last few major events.
Spencer
I think in Joyce’s case it’d definitely be helpful to her if she just has support, since there’s nobody who can actively solve her problems right now, and it’s going to be a process she has to go through.
So like, I think it’s really good for Joyce right now to know that, while things have changed, she always has her friends to back her up.
Silamy
It….. really depends. I’ve been trying to cope with severe depression for most of my life, and some of the things people have said to me while trying to help have actually hurt my immediate mental state enough to tip me over from unmotivated and empty to self-harm, because I went from feeling nothing to feeling like I was worthless and a burden to people around me, and they’d be better if my problems and I weren’t there.
Spencer
Yeah, I remember that period, that part where just being around other people was a crime and how dare I blight them with my presence. Even just being encouraged made me feel worse because they’re taking time out of their schedule to make me feel better, and they must have so many better things to do!
It took me a while, but I eventually started to grasp that people can like me, and it’s not something that had to be measured or earned.
ton
And speaking from the other side I never knew how to act or what to say. Always too scared of saying the wrong thing to say or do anything other than what I’d normally say.
Cerberus
Totally agree with everyone else. It can be a really random affair for depressed people. What might help shake one person out of stuff might dump another into an even deeper spiral. I’ve gotten in the habit of asking what I can do to support and then just be present and listening if the person is noncommunicative.
And from personal experience, I’ve been the literal worst person to deal with when depressed because I tend to climb inside myself and not come out when I get into a hole, which drives “fixer” personalities up a wall.
John
It depends on why the person is feeling terrible.
If you feel terrible because you think no one likes you then maybe. But if you feel terrible because you think people only do nice things for you when you seem hurt or need sympathy then not so much.
Similarly if you feel bad because you feel useless, like a waste of time and effort and them someone starts wasting time and effort on you that’s not going to work so well. Even if you give them a chance if you still feel depressed then you are caught in a nasty bind where you either assume that the help failed = waste of life. Or you pretend to feel better to make them feel better = ignoring the problem.
Often times unhelpful help can make a person feel better in the short term temporarily alleviating the stress, only for it to come back when the “helper” is gone. For instance, if someone’s feeling bad about their academics which causes them to feel worthless and then they express these feelings of worthlessness to a friend, who tells them not to care so much about academics, they aren’t everything after all. The result could be a temporary relief from stress and depression only to return when other consequential goals such as career success reinforce the importance of academic success forcing the distressed person to again face their sense of failure and worthlessness now with four hours passed and none of which spent studying.
I’m just spit-balling many ways in which unhelpful help can be unhelpful. And of course none of this explores the many more obvious and immediate ways that someone can be unhelpful while trying to help. Such as when the proffer drugs as a solution to feelings of sadness. When their behavior reinforces negative images about the person or the world. Or when their advice is otherwise self destructive.
Sam
It definitely helps to know people care, but sometimes the best way to do that is ask ‘do you want a distraction, do you want someone to listen or would you rather be left alone’.
People trying to placate me has always just made me angry and prone to lashing out that they’re wrong. While letting me choose when to reopen interactions has let me calm down, lift my mood by talking with them and then move on past that particular moment.
DSL
I agree with the sentiment, even when I read messages on comment boards from people who want to react only to the word and are unwilling to even consider anything resembling context. But keep the thought. It’s a good one.
DSL
… the sentiment expressed in Spencer’s original post.
Doctor_Who
I bet there’s not even anything on that clipboard. Ruth is just using it so she has something to pretend to pay attention to, so she doesn’t have to make eye contact and engage.
Been there. Psst, Ruth, keep the sound effect you use for text notifications on your phone’s homescreen, so you can play it and fake a text whenever you want.
Bagge
It’s her List.
You do not want to be on Ruth’s list.
(unless you are Billie).
Reltzik
Or maybe Mike. We’ve seen how Mike responds to domineering, abusive women.
Captain Button
So Ruth is telling Billie what a good person she is, but making it look like insulting her.
Shiro
That does seem to be how their relationship works.
Cerberus
Yeah, they’ve got beautiful healthy moments sandwiched in self-loathing, self-destruction, alcoholism, and abuse.
Cheshrin
Mr. Willis, I don’t recall signing the permission slip for this feels trip.
Needfuldoer
Please let this be a normal feels trip…
Vagabond J
With the Willis?
NO WAY!
Kernanator
Quick Billie, roll a die and base your decision on that!
That One Guy
*rolls a d20*
*gets a 1*
This game’s rigged!
Clif
Correct. But you can’t not play.
That would be against the rules.
Bicycle Bill
The only winning move is to not play.
John
What is that, some kind of D&D thing?
NERRRRRRD!
(Sometimes I miss my old Yelling Billie gravatar.)
Bicycle Bill
It’s from “War Games”, a 1983 Matthew Broderick movie.
motorfirebox
Yyyyyyyyyyyyep.
Stephen R. Bierce
*plays Molly Hatchet’s “Lady Luck” on the Muzak*
maxyai
In South Park Canadians have flappy heads but in DoA they have square jaws?
Lord Stoneheart
Well the only Canadians we’ve seen are Ruth and Howard and they’re related. Also non Canadians have been shown to have square jaws as well. (Like Joe)
Disloyal Subject
…huh. It just occurred to me that Joe’s probably related in some way to Canada Guy.
Lord Stoneheart
What?
inqntrol
Who’s Canada Guy?
Amazi-Stool
And what is a search engine, may i ask?
LMGTFY