My freshman year we had two Toms, Big Tom (he was quite tall) and Purple Tom (which was completely arbitrary). Second semester a third Tom moved in, so we just called him Third Tom. The next year Big Tom moved out so Third Tom was upgraded to Tom Beta. That was like 15 years ago and I think he still goes by Beta.
Interesting that you’d have knowledge on the subject of things (such as information) appearing earlier in the timeline than they should, Ana Chronistic. Things being… nonlinear? Anti-causal? Un-temporal? I’m sure there’s a word for it.
For some reason I see this ending up with Robin freaking out at Becky, then seeing her popularity has skyrocketed even more, shrugging, then walking off
Please remember: American “left wing” is still pretty right wing by normal standards.
We just don’t notice as much because the “right wing” republicans have shifted so far to the right as to have smashed straight through Poland. And almost anything looks “left wing” when compared to literal fascists.
I’ve said that sort of thing myself but it’s been pointed out that “normal standards” really means “Western European”. Which has some merit because it’s easier to compare positions in similar societies, such as wealthy industrialized ones, but if you look at *all* countries and many issues “the US is right wing” gets harder to defend.
Meagan
Thank you for challenging the eurocentrism!
Pearl
No it doesn’t. Most postcolonial countries have the idea of a welfare state hard-coded into the constitution. USA does not.
Pearl
Source: I live in India.
drs
Which of the US and India has a better actual welfare state?
And there are other “left/right” issues, like women’s rights and gay rights and assimilating immigrants. Despite current problems the US is far ahead of many countries on all of those — for immigrants, ahead of much of Europe. (And for all our racism problems, Romany/Gypsy issues don’t make Europe look good either.)
I mean based on the last referendum only about 1.5% of Puerto Ricans actually want independence compared to over 97% that want statehood. One can argue the specific merits of statehood vs independence, but generally speaking I would say that it’s a better idea to make decisions based on what an overwhelming majority of prefer. Don’t think there’s much merit to releasing a territory that overwhelmingly would prefer not to leave.
It’s more complicated, I think. The major groups in favor of the current status boycotted the referendum and turnout was correspondingly very low. Statehood might have won anyway, but it certainly would have been much closer. Total independence does seem to be very much a minority view though.
The previous referendum in 2012 was also complicated. There were 2 questions: The first was essentially “Maintain the current status: Yes/no”. No won, by ~54%. The second was What non-territorial status do you prefer? Statehood won that by around 60%. But with that approach, you can’t distinguish between those who actually want statehood and those who don’t want change but would take statehood if things had to change.
Basically, there’s no good evidence of an overwhelming majority. Leftists on the mainland often assume Puerto Ricans want statehood (or for more radical lefties, independence), but that’s mostly projection. And often the assumption that a PR state would be two more Democratic Senators. 🙂
It’s what I used to think, but I’ve been corrected by various PR activists.
BBCC
Wouldn’t answering the first question ‘no’ and then picking statehood help distinguish those who only want statehood if things have to change?
thejeff
I don’t think the results are available broken down to “Voted No and State”, vs
“Voted Yes and State”.
BBCC
No, but wouldn’t that information help clarify things in the future? Since, lbr, there will probably be at least one more referendum about this.
Hi, actual Puerto Rican here! The last referendum was boycotted by over 80% of registered voters because, like the others before it, it was non-binding and a lot of folks deemd it a waste of resources and money, so I wouldn’t hold those results too close to the chest. It only got such a high vote for statehood because they comprised the 20%~ of registered voters who actually took part in the referendum.
As for where it falls in the left/right, the pro-state party is also the PR analog for the Republican Party and most of its platform is very right-wing. They’re usually behind anti LGBTQ+ legislation, anti-abortion legislation, and trying even harder to blur the line between church and state. I often tell my stateside friends that we’d fit right in the bible belt if the dominant denomination of Christianity in the island were Protestant instead of Catholic.
Anyway referendum results aside, the boilerplate leftist position on Puerto Rico is that it is a colony of the United States, and as such decolonization is necessary – which means independence, not statehood, which would simply make Puerto Rico an internal, rather than external, colony. Given that leftists, as a general rule, do not regard the United States as a legitimate entity (as it is a state created through settler colonialism), no leftist worth their salt would have any interest in adding more states to it, especially when it would simply perpetuate existing colonialism.
The De Santos are some variety of Hispanic so this might actually be a personal opinion. Also I think statehood is the plurality opinion of Puerto Ricans these days. Also I don’t see how it’s a left/right issue.
It is an overwhelming majority who want statehood as of the last referendum.
BBCC
Now that being said, the last referendum’s voter turnout was ridiculously low – only 23%. HOWEVER, in the 2012 referendum, statehood also overwhelmingly favoured statehood at 61% – an inarguable majority.
Deathjavu
I imagine after both parties claimed they would respect the outcome of the vote, and then they voted, and then nothing happened and nothing will continue to happen, because Puerto Rico would likely tip the balance of power in the senate, that people decided it wasn’t worth voting in.
That, or the second referendum was in a midterm. Or both.
Somebody
If I recall correctly, the group that was against statehood claimed the election was illegitamate and told people not to vote in it. Which is why the results so overwhelmingly favor statehood — those who were against it didn’t vote.
BBCC
That’s true for the most recent one, not for the 2012 one that I can find.
281 thoughts on “Statehood”
Ana Chronistic
#for2ndrachel
John Madden
#4moresupremecourtrachels
sidehack
My freshman year we had two Toms, Big Tom (he was quite tall) and Purple Tom (which was completely arbitrary). Second semester a third Tom moved in, so we just called him Third Tom. The next year Big Tom moved out so Third Tom was upgraded to Tom Beta. That was like 15 years ago and I think he still goes by Beta.
Doctor_Who
Tomorrow’s headline: Rep DeSanto Reviews Sister’s Sex Video, Praises Her Technique
Clif
Using a time machine to read tomorrows papers is illegal in 12 of the major timelines.
Ana Chronistic
What if it’s the Evening Edition
Ana Chronistic
sorry, Early Edition
Andrusi
Interesting that you’d have knowledge on the subject of things (such as information) appearing earlier in the timeline than they should, Ana Chronistic. Things being… nonlinear? Anti-causal? Un-temporal? I’m sure there’s a word for it.
He Who Abides
Curse you, Ana! I’d finally forgotten that show!
*scrambles to find DVDs*
Deathjavu
Really? Patreon seems perfectly legal to me 😛
DarkoNeko
Yes, for your friend. Sure 😀
Cattleprod
You’ll just be Rachel, but the one who used to be known as simply Rachel will now be Better Rachel.
Doctor_Who
Tall Rachel?
Kamino Neko
But that would mean Other Rachel would be Fat Rachel, and that’s mean.
Doctor_Who
Ah, the Tankor Principle.
EvilMidnightLurker
Tall, Fat… that calls for Hill Rachel to round out the ranks of the Lieutenants Rachel.
(A cookie… no, a big red cheese to whoever knows what the hell I’m talking about.)
Kamino Neko
The Lieutenants Marvel. Too easy.
Needfuldoer
But why? Only one Rachel needs a descriptor.
Besides, weight is generally easier to change than height.
Kamino Neko
Because you can’t have a Tall Tankor without a Fat Tankor. That’s how it works.
ProfessorDetective
Old Rachel?
Cyrus
Mean Rachel.
sdrainbow
Wait, when did she morph into a starfish?
Delicious Taffy
Duty.
Tacos
Second Rachel?
mister gray
I was thinking purple Rachel cuz of the hair.
TheFlamingonator
why not Purple Rachel? and then if her hair colour changes she becomes {Insert hair colour] Rachel
No Name
But what if she dyes her hair black? What then?
TheFlamingonator
Goth rachel?
TachyonCode
The Rachel formerly known as Other Rachel.
Chronos
Rachel Classic.
Andrusi
Rachel (Armada)
leadsynth
“In my head, I change the meaning from Other Rachel to Original Rachel, so now it’s a compliment.”
(Silicon Valley, anyone?)
Roborat
Not the Other Rachel.
Kyrik Michalowski
Becky I think you’ve gone mad with power, and I love it. This can only end well, let me get some popcorn.
Diner Kinetic
honestly, this is the kindest, gentlest pandering I’ve ever seen though. But yes is it beautiful and most cornworthy
Delicious Taffy
“Cornworthy” sounds like an Illinois-based farming cult.
Icalasari
For some reason I see this ending up with Robin freaking out at Becky, then seeing her popularity has skyrocketed even more, shrugging, then walking off
StClair
“Of course I have. Have you ever tried going mad without power? It’s boring, no one listens to you.”
Clif
Well, yes, but then you get to plan how to show them all before destroying them like the insignificant insects they are.
abysswatcher1993
Dammit, you win this time.
abysswatcher1993
Have you tried becoming mad without power? Nobody takes you seriously.
Keulen
If Robin’s Republican base hasn’t already abandoned her by now, these tweets by Becky are sure to drive them away.
Chronos
This is going to be a beautiful trainwreck.
Schpoonman
Rachel deserves better.
Not the tall one, she’s an asshole.
Schpoonman
Rachel and Tall Rachel 2020.
Chronos
They need to open a lawfirm together…
Rachel and Rachel.
Hey, if Allen, Allen, Allen, and Allen can do it, why not them?
Mr. Random
As much as I think she’s an asshole, she’s almost always an asshole for the right reasons.
AnvilPro
Oh Meredith, you so crazy
Antonio Tyler
Sorry, Other Rachel, only realistic requests.
Tacos
Look, Becky can change policy but she can’t change the laws of nature, Other Rachel.
Jabberwocky
Roz: yeah I’m a leftist
Also Roz: Puerto Rican statehood and not independence
Sheason
Please remember: American “left wing” is still pretty right wing by normal standards.
We just don’t notice as much because the “right wing” republicans have shifted so far to the right as to have smashed straight through Poland. And almost anything looks “left wing” when compared to literal fascists.
drs
I’ve said that sort of thing myself but it’s been pointed out that “normal standards” really means “Western European”. Which has some merit because it’s easier to compare positions in similar societies, such as wealthy industrialized ones, but if you look at *all* countries and many issues “the US is right wing” gets harder to defend.
Meagan
Thank you for challenging the eurocentrism!
Pearl
No it doesn’t. Most postcolonial countries have the idea of a welfare state hard-coded into the constitution. USA does not.
Pearl
Source: I live in India.
drs
Which of the US and India has a better actual welfare state?
And there are other “left/right” issues, like women’s rights and gay rights and assimilating immigrants. Despite current problems the US is far ahead of many countries on all of those — for immigrants, ahead of much of Europe. (And for all our racism problems, Romany/Gypsy issues don’t make Europe look good either.)
Evan
I mean based on the last referendum only about 1.5% of Puerto Ricans actually want independence compared to over 97% that want statehood. One can argue the specific merits of statehood vs independence, but generally speaking I would say that it’s a better idea to make decisions based on what an overwhelming majority of prefer. Don’t think there’s much merit to releasing a territory that overwhelmingly would prefer not to leave.
Ana Chronistic
Puerto Rexit
thejeff
It’s more complicated, I think. The major groups in favor of the current status boycotted the referendum and turnout was correspondingly very low. Statehood might have won anyway, but it certainly would have been much closer. Total independence does seem to be very much a minority view though.
The previous referendum in 2012 was also complicated. There were 2 questions: The first was essentially “Maintain the current status: Yes/no”. No won, by ~54%. The second was What non-territorial status do you prefer? Statehood won that by around 60%. But with that approach, you can’t distinguish between those who actually want statehood and those who don’t want change but would take statehood if things had to change.
Basically, there’s no good evidence of an overwhelming majority. Leftists on the mainland often assume Puerto Ricans want statehood (or for more radical lefties, independence), but that’s mostly projection. And often the assumption that a PR state would be two more Democratic Senators. 🙂
It’s what I used to think, but I’ve been corrected by various PR activists.
BBCC
Wouldn’t answering the first question ‘no’ and then picking statehood help distinguish those who only want statehood if things have to change?
thejeff
I don’t think the results are available broken down to “Voted No and State”, vs
“Voted Yes and State”.
BBCC
No, but wouldn’t that information help clarify things in the future? Since, lbr, there will probably be at least one more referendum about this.
Kwii
Hi, actual Puerto Rican here! The last referendum was boycotted by over 80% of registered voters because, like the others before it, it was non-binding and a lot of folks deemd it a waste of resources and money, so I wouldn’t hold those results too close to the chest. It only got such a high vote for statehood because they comprised the 20%~ of registered voters who actually took part in the referendum.
As for where it falls in the left/right, the pro-state party is also the PR analog for the Republican Party and most of its platform is very right-wing. They’re usually behind anti LGBTQ+ legislation, anti-abortion legislation, and trying even harder to blur the line between church and state. I often tell my stateside friends that we’d fit right in the bible belt if the dominant denomination of Christianity in the island were Protestant instead of Catholic.
Jabberwocky
The one everyone boycotted lmao
Jabberwocky
Anyway referendum results aside, the boilerplate leftist position on Puerto Rico is that it is a colony of the United States, and as such decolonization is necessary – which means independence, not statehood, which would simply make Puerto Rico an internal, rather than external, colony. Given that leftists, as a general rule, do not regard the United States as a legitimate entity (as it is a state created through settler colonialism), no leftist worth their salt would have any interest in adding more states to it, especially when it would simply perpetuate existing colonialism.
drs
The De Santos are some variety of Hispanic so this might actually be a personal opinion. Also I think statehood is the plurality opinion of Puerto Ricans these days. Also I don’t see how it’s a left/right issue.
BBCC
It is an overwhelming majority who want statehood as of the last referendum.
BBCC
Now that being said, the last referendum’s voter turnout was ridiculously low – only 23%. HOWEVER, in the 2012 referendum, statehood also overwhelmingly favoured statehood at 61% – an inarguable majority.
Deathjavu
I imagine after both parties claimed they would respect the outcome of the vote, and then they voted, and then nothing happened and nothing will continue to happen, because Puerto Rico would likely tip the balance of power in the senate, that people decided it wasn’t worth voting in.
That, or the second referendum was in a midterm. Or both.
Somebody
If I recall correctly, the group that was against statehood claimed the election was illegitamate and told people not to vote in it. Which is why the results so overwhelmingly favor statehood — those who were against it didn’t vote.
BBCC
That’s true for the most recent one, not for the 2012 one that I can find.