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277 thoughts on “Deposit”
Ana Chronistic
aw come on, Beckers, SURELY you can afford the finest UPSCALE smells!
[like, uh… P.F. Chang? idk what’s there]
TrueVCU
In which Becky learns about the concept of minimum wage
TrueVCU
And the related concept of begging for extra shifts
Tilt
Not just minimum wage. WAITRESS minimum wage. It’s $2.15 an hour, depending on the state.
Dark
Which is absolutely bollock-shitting insanity.
Hedgie
Damn. It took me a minute to get that (I live in California). And Galasso’s doesn’t seem to be the sort of environment where the tips would be high enough for withholding to kill the cheque.
Needfuldoer
But their primary clientele are college students, a demographic famous for being awash in disposable income…
/s
TheLurkerAbove
Wait what, US$2.15/h? That’s lower than working at a McDonald’s in my country with no minimum wage laws!
Aletheia
Yup. :/ Wait staff are expected to make the rest of a livable wage up in tips, which is shitty in SO many ways….
Aletheia
(I should add that the staff at McDonalds and other fast food restaurants usually *do* make the normal minimum wage, something like $7.15 I think (if it’s not higher due to state laws); it’s only servers and similar tip-focused positions that make the insanely low minimum wage. :/ )
Greylurker
Wait what? That is so Wrong. Tips are supposed to be like a bonus. Flee to Canada Becky. Even Saskatchewan will pay you $11/hour in our colorful monopoly money
Chupicron
That’s how it *used* to be. In the 1960’s, employers basically dumped the bill on their customers to pay their employees. Successfully lobbying for a separate, tipped minimum wage when waitstaff finally got added to the Fair Labor Standards Act.
Dean
And the tipped minimum wage hasn’t increased with cost of living like the regular minimum wage has.
TheStranger
Even the regular minimum wage (federal) has less buying power now than it had in the 1950s. It, uh, hasn’t increased in a few decades its own self.
State/local minimum wages, depending on where you are, those are a different thing. But the federal minimum wage last saw an increase around the turn of the millennium, and I think THAT was the first such in 20 years, itself.
Heavensrun
Minimum wage hasn’t budged in 30 years, at least in my state.
thejeff
Raised to the current rate in 2009 (with a couple steps up in the years before). Before then, raised in 1997.
But yes, it’s fallen behind cost of living. And the tipped minimum hasn’t gone up since the early 90s.
thejeff
Of course it’s not so much that it got worse in the 60s, since there was no minimum wage for such jobs before then.
It does suck, but it’s a little more complex – tipped jobs can actually wind up paying well over the minimum wage counting the tips in, so they’re often not a bad option. And theoretically, if you don’t make enough in tips to reach minimum wage, your employer has to make up the difference. That’s commonly abused though. Illegal, but common.
Liquid Len
And since Becky is working without all the proper documentation IIRC, she probably wouldn’t have much leverage against that.
Lucy Gillam
I thought she had gotten everything she needed? Even so, the tips at a student pizza joint aren’t going to amount to much, even if she’s also working the bar section (which, assuming she’s 18, she could, but then involves the complex algebra of tipping out the bartender, who has a math degree and thus can figure that out to1/1000th of a cent).
thejeff
Becky’s documented. She’s got her SSN and birth certificate. That’s enough to prove anything she needs.
She’s not working the bar though. Jason it. We’ve seen they need people 21 or older to even bring drinks to a table.
BBCC
Pamela didn’t take her documentation though – Becky’s still technically working under the table.
BBCC
And, no, it’s not ‘more complex’ with tipped positions – pay your goddamn workers properly (as in, the fucking minimum wage if you can’t be bothered to go over). And yeah, making more than the federal minimum wage isn’t saying much – your federal minimum is garbage too.
I’ve never met an American server who wouldn’t rather make a stable, consistent (preferably living) wage over one that relies on customer generosity, especially when tip collecting is so easily abused.
thejeff
I’ve met plenty who worked restaurant jobs precisely because with tips they could make more than a straight minimum wage job. Admittedly this was some years back in my twenties, when I worked for minimum wage or just above and knew plenty of people in the same boat.
Of course, they’d have rather been making an actual living wage, but that’s a separate question. They had to choose between crappy job with tips or our crappy minimum wage.
It’s fair to say that tip abuse has probably gotten worse over the years though. I think there’s more room to cheat by pooling and splitting tips than there used to be.
BBCC
You only make that extra if you have a lot of customers or if the customers are generous though – that’s part of the problem. You can’t make an actual living wage if your employers don’t even have to pay you the crappy existing minimum wage.
Lucy Gillam
Gotcha. I was just going by the state law. It could be that the local ordinances restrict it to 21 (I live in the OTHER Big State U city in Illinois, and that’s a bit more research than I want to do ;), but if comic canon says it’s 21, it’s 21.
Khno
I agree with BBCC here, it’s not “more complex” – at least not in this direction. Imagine a waiter/waitress being largely tipped, having a way of life according to it. They would have to rely on this income to be able to pay whatever insurances (health, whatev) that the boss don’t pay for them (let me guess how often the answer is “any” for small joints like these). Any sick day would result not only on a salary loss, but on an inability to be able to further pay any health related insurance. Whereas on a standy even minimum wage, you always can afford what you’re paid for. That’s the reason proper healthcare means drug dealing is moot.
Fido the strange
What’s worse is, the IRS will tax your tips, even if you didn’t make any. They just assume you made good tips, and tax you on that.
Segnosaur
At one time it may have been that Tips were a bonus. But (at least in some western countries) they are almost an expectation. (Granted, its usually not mandatory to leave a tip, but protocol seems to be “Minimum 10-15% of the bill”.)
Kabo
I listened to a comedian in my country talking about a visit to California. He had gone to some type of stand up club, and in the pause the owner of the joint had come up on stage to remind everybody to tip, “especially you cheap Europeans!”
And the guy was like: I’m the cheap one? You’re the asshole who pays your staff minimum wage so that I have to tip them.
Kinoko
Yeah. I live in California, and I totally agree. (I moved here from England, though.)
It’s really shitty to call Europeans “cheap” because they don’t know how tips work because THEY PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE. I see that attitude all the time, and it drives me nuts. A lot of folks have never traveled abroad and don’t know how nice it is when their bill isn’t a giant inflated lie due to sales tax and tip being added on after the fact.
Tilt
Yeah. It is. The thing is that in America, it used to be that waiters and waitresses were paid by their employer and made minimum wage and tipping was considered rude. But, when money started flowing up, businesses started to encourage staff to ask for tips from wealthy patrons willing to pay extra for faster service. Tipping became the norm and business owners argued that because wait staff could expect to be tipped for the service they provide, they shouldn’t have to be paid minimum wage. So, they’re paid just $2.15 an hour. TECHNICALLY, the restaurant should pay their staff for any hourly shortcomings (If you only make $1 in tips due to it being slow or working on a campus of broke college students, they’d have to pay an extra $6 an hour to make up for it), but that isn’t really enforced.
Delicious Taffy
The solution is to stop tipping.
Snycke
The solution is to fix the legislation. If you stop tipping, all that happens is that servers fail to make rent for years and have their lives ruined before anybody will actually hold employers accountable for not appropriately compensating their workers.
David M Willis
what is wrong with you
Clif
Quite a bit actually. If everyone stopped tipping then it might work, but that’s not going to happen and the only result of not tipping is that the people who can least afford it are screwed again. What annoys me though it tip creep where more and more of the pay is shifted to expected tips. In my lifetime 10% was a generous tip. Now, 20% to 25% is considered standard.
Kinoko
So the poorest, working class folks have to get evicted and starve in order to make a point that the culture of relying on tips is unethical? Let’s not.
Notice how great that’s going with healthcare? Diabetic working class folks are rationing their insulin and dying, and NOTHING is being done about it.
Kinoko
…Sorry, I now realized I’ve mis-read your comment. I was fixated on the “if everyone stopped it might work” part, but you clearly addressed the problem where it screws over the most vulnerable.
It’s apparently really easy to jump to conclusions on this topic, which we all seem to agree is awful. Carry on.
Khno
Wait, I lived in Germany with the assumption 10% was a normal tip, AND they don’t pay waiters in tips there…
Tilt
You can’t change an entire culture by cheaping out of paying workers. If you don’t tip, waitresses starve. You need to fix the laws.
BBCC
I’m pretty sure Taffy meant on a cultural level, but yes, that requires forcing employers to pay their employees first, at which point tipping will be unnecessary.
Tilt
But that’s not what he said. He said the /solution/ is to /stop/ tipping. Not that tipping should be unnecessary. By saying the solution is to stop tipping, that implies that he thinks the way to fix the problem of underpaid waitresses is to stop tipping and let things sort themselves out.
If he meant that tipping should be unnecessary, he should have said, ‘this is why tipping shouldn’t be a thing.’
Delicious Taffy
That’s basically what I meant, yeah. I think I came across as an asshole, there.
To clarify, the current situation is that customers are expected to pay the employees directly, on top of their original purchase, instead of employers being expected to pay their employees in the first place, and I’m trying to say that I don’t think it should have to be that way.
Delicious Taffy
On second thought, how about I just shut the fuck up about the subject, since tonight clearly isn’t a good-communication night for me and everything I say keeps coming out wrong.
BBCC
That’s why I said that’s what I’m pretty sure he meant.
Ob
Perhaps the solution is to start an initiative by opening your own restaurant and pay your waiters minimum wage, then not accept tips.
However, you’ll quickly realize that 99% of waiters actually prefer this tip-based system as they can rake in a lot more cash this way. (May be different in places where most customers are poor students).
Inahc
I’ve heard that that’s been tried, and customers got sticker shock and didn’t want to pay the “high” prices.
Plus, given how I’ve seen some people behave at European restaurants, I suspect many customers would be just as unwilling to give up tipping. People can get really weird about it.
Lensipensi
Just an unknowing European here: wouldn’t the solution be to go into and change politics/ elect somebody who enforces fair pay/ join an union/ start your own restaurant with fair pay? If you are not willing to do something by yourself about it, it is quite unfair to underpay the staff by not tipping.
Delicious Taffy
I already said I’m not talking about it anymore. I don’t need words put in my mouth so you can take issue with them in my absence.
Rowen Morland
This probably counts as both those things, but I read your first post as “stop the tipping culture”. Like change the whole thing not just micro scale.
Lensipensi
I am sorry. I wasn’t aware, that I misinterpreted it so much.
Lensipensi
And I didn’t see your replies until today. I am sure they weren’t there, when I answered, otherwise I wouldn’t have answered as I have. Again, I am sorry!
Unusually Angry Hippie
Alright, Mr. Pink.
Unusually Angry Hippie
Reservoir Dogs reference aside, I really don’t think Taffy should have to apologize for how others construed a single sentence accompanied by no context.
And, even if they meant it the way you guys chose to take it, your replies were rude, confrontational, and wholly nonconstructive….so basically everything that’s been wrong with the comment section for years, only applied to tipping instead of social issues.
People are allowed to have opinions, including unpopular ones. People also aren’t required to tip. Stop being such assholes for imaginary brownie points just because being mean to ‘acceptable targets’ on the internet makes you feel good about yourselves.
thejeff
@Tilt
I don’t think it’s actually true that waiters and waitresses used to paid by their employer and made minimum wage.
Near as I can tell servers were never covered under regular minimum wage laws. They only were brought in at all in the 60s when the tipped wage was introduced.
Marsh Maryrose
In Indiana, $2.13/hr. But McDonald’s employees are not tipped.
The minimum wage is $7.25/hr for all employees, tipped or not. But tipped employees are supposed to report their tips, and if those reported tips + tipped minimum wage are at least equal to the minimum wage, then the employer only has to pay the tipped minimum wage.
If a tipped employee reports tips that are less than the difference, then the employer has to make up the difference. But if a tipped employee reports tips that are less than the difference, they are likely to be fired, and that’s completely legal. Not right, but legal.
Ellegos
Yuuup.
https://youtu.be/q_vivC7c_1k
Toes14
In theory, tips should more than make up the difference. But it does depend on the restaurant. Back when I waited tables (mid 80’s), I got $2.01/hour. One place I worked only lunches and a bad day averaged $5.00 or so an hour (including the $2.01). A good day was more like $8.00/hour. T
The other place was much better. I worked evenings and averaged AT LEAST $9-10/hour on a bad day, $15.00/hour on a good day. For comparison, minimum wage was $3.35/hour then.
That wasn’t bad money for an early 20’s college student.
BBCC
The US waitress minimum wage is fuck off evil. Where I live it’s $12.20 an hour. It’s still lower than the $15 minimum wage ideal but it’s not fuck off ridiculous.
Tilt
It really, seriously is. Especially in small towns because smaller businesses aren’t required to meet the same standards of business practices. So it’s a double whammy of ‘There aren’t enough people coming here to make good tips’ and ‘They don’t employ enough people for the government to care.’
I want to say that when I called a lawyer about unsafe business practices and the owners cheating staff, I was told that they couldn’t do anything as long as there were fewer than 15 employees.
Greylurker
This whole conversation made me do some digging just to see what the policies actually are here in Canada. Apparently Tips are never considered Wage (Good for us) but can be considered Pay depending on if they are Controlled tips or Direct Tips. Controlled Tip = Restaurant automatically adds 20% Gratuity to your bill. Direct Tip = I leave $5 on the table when I go. Controlled Tips count as Pay and employer distributes them onto the paycheck. As pay they count for income tax, CPP and EI.
Kryss LaBryn
Does using Controlled Tips mean the staff’s hourly wage is allowed to decrease, though? Or just that it gets added to the staffs’ paycheques, and therefore taxed?
Canadian myself here, and so far as I’ve ever heard, pay doesn’t decrease, but I couldn’t say for sure, having only ever worked two days as a waitress, heh. And I don’t really have the spoons to research it myself right now. :/
Greylurker
From what I was reading it’s added to wage. the Government web site was very specific that Tips do not count as Wages. So Controlled Tips are a bonus, on top of your Wages, but you still pay Taxes and the other things on them.
Victor
Wait, so a voluntary tip isn’t even considered taxable there?
I mean, that makes sense, if it’s not countable as wages and not mandatory it should be considered a gift, but that’s not at all how it works in the US.
Not only do tips count toward wages for minimum wage purposes (and while if they’re not enough to get to it the employer is supposed to make it up, they almost never actually do that) they’re considered taxable income.
That’s why it’s best to tip in cash even if you’re paying with a credit card, credit card tips are always reported, cash tips can be fudged. And I’m not going to begrudge somebody making sub-minimum wages a bit of fudging on taxes at all.
Dr. T
I don’t know how Mother Bears, the real life Galasso’s, handles tips, but in Indiana you can actually force the wait staff to pool their tips.
What’s more, the Trump Administration recently changed the rules that allows any employer that forces their wait staff to share their tips can divide the tips amongst the staff AND the restaurant however the owners of the restaurant chooses, which means that it is now perfectly legal for the restaurant owner to take nearly ALL of the tips earned at the restaurant.
Tilt
That is FUCKED UP.
Needfuldoer
That’s red America, where corporations are people and they’re more important than human people.
Kensou
Another layer of “FUCKED UP” I didn’t even know existed added to an already shitty situation. What the hell.
Wizard
And any restaurant that actually tries that will soon be out of business because they can’t get good (or possibly any) help. The laws of the market are more powerful than those of the state, since they’re self enforcing and can’t be repealed. (Not that politicians don’t keep trying. )
Daisy
You’d think so, but sadly there are always desperate people. In certain places, word would get around, yes. But even in the UK I hear people going to work for places like Deliveroo, who reduce their wages once they’ve finished recruiting in a new area because people stick with them. Some people are just grateful to have a job.
The fucked-up bit here is apprenticeships. No matter how old you are, on an apprenticeship you get paid less than £4 an hour. This applies to placements that will lead you directly into a new, high-paying job, AND for placements that are two years of office administration for a certificate that says “I can do filing, also speak English”.
marillius
Anyone who thinks a business will go out of business because they treat their workers like shit doesn’t know business. It is good business sense to squeeze every last drop out of your works while giving them nothing in return, sometimes less then nothing, and then hiring someone else to replace them because they’re disposable and there are plenty of other disposable people struggling to make ends meet who can use the job.
And the best part about america? It’s actually not really illegal, per say, to do horrible things like withhold pay checks, charge someone for things like their uniform or really any number of other issues. As long as you do it to only one or two employees at a time the government in a lot of red states won’t investigate complaints. Particularly if you use an older model of clocking in that leaves less evidence for them to show. And the FBI and Police don’t investigate things like this at all!
So as long as you only do it to the poor people who can’t afford lawyers, you’re good, because the myth about lawyers working pro-bono to help people died a long time ago and these days lawyers won’t do shit without money upfront! And you have their paycheck! And it’s christmas anyway so no one’s even at the office!
^ This is a real thing that happened to me at a store in which I was a fricking stock manager. Last I heard, their chain was going inter-state. And this is actually one of the least offensive stories I’ve got from my time as a non-crippled individual capable of performing menial labor.
Khno
McDonalds. Germany. the 2000’s. Lodging illegally polish workers in the basement. Making them pay 1/3 of salary for accomodation. Still found plenty of them. And Poland is EU.
thejeff
Though even if the restaurant pools tips and takes most of the proceeds themselves, they’re required to ensure that servers aren’t actually working for less than minimum wage – pay+tips has to be minimum. That’s often abused, but I think it would be easier to catch if the tips are pooled and distributed by the business.
Schpoonman
Correct me if I’m wrong, but under those terms I could hire a full staff of waiters at $2.whatever an hour, collect ALL their tips, and then bump paychecks up to minimum wage ($7.25 where I live) and pocket the rest?
Are you fucking kidding me?
thejeff
You could.
Of course, that’s not really any different than any other business where you can hire employees for minimum wage.
And I suspect your employees would either quickly move on. Or discourage tipping. 🙂
Toes14
Schpoonman – You’d also lose wait staff incredibly fast, leaving only the schlubs who suck at it. Your service would take a huge hit, quickly followed by the restaurant’s reputation, then boom! You are out of business.
Mopey
See, the thing about wait staff is that there’s pretty much an infinite and renewable supply of inexperienced teens who think that any amount of money is better than no money and will need a couple of months to catch up to the fact that you’re giving them the rawest possible deal. By cycling through employees every couple of months you can hobble along at “passable” service pretty much forever.
You can always rely on someone taking the absolute most exploitative route, and the idea that they’ll be punished for it is a nice enough fantasy until you compare it to reality where exploitative practices are rewarded all the time.
See also Marillius’ and Daisy’s responses to Wizard above.
MatthewTheLucky
Or you could take all the tips, pay $2.15 an hour, and threaten your staff if they complain!
sunflowerofice
well i’m pretty sure the place is legally obligated to provide the difference if tips don’t get them up to minimum wage. I heard that somewhere….. eh.
Catman