It’s modified sign language. I mean, if you want a seperate word for everything wouldn’t a new word not on the spectrum of the words you said be even better?
Here’s a thing that has kind of flummoxed me in reading the comments tonight.
ASL has its own freaking grammar. Any translation you see of ASL into English sentences is just that: a translation. It could be translated into Danish, or Russian, or Yoruba, and it would still be a translation.
Willis chose to make the English translation of Sal’s signing follow Sal’s spoken speech patterns, and somehow this is a big freaking deal, and I kinda doubt he ever expected that. I certainly didn’t.
Marcie and Sal are not communicating in Signed Exact English. They are communicating in ASL. The words you are seeing on the page are a translation, not a transliteration. It’s not that big of a deal.
It’s a big thing because most people don’t know anything about sign, it isn’t part of their daily experience and they’ve never had to process any thoughts about the idiosyncrasies of sign. It’s not freaking out, it’s genuine curiosity about what accent transliterates to in sign, if anything. They have no data to even guess, so they ask.
It took me a second to realize Sal was signing. At first glance I assumed all of the blue dialogue was Marcie’s, then I noticed Sal’s hands were in signing-blue and the translation followed Sal’s speech patterns.
What would a transliteration of this conversation look like?
Leorale
My sign is very beginner, but from my rudimentary knowledge, maybe something like:
You, me, with friends, future?
Yeah, maybe, same as Malaya with me friends, future.
Please, not say Malaya me same.
Look, I like similar women, ok?
All these parts of this conversation, I don’t like.
Please chime in, people with more ASL knowledge.
Leorale
What’s really cool with ASL grammar is that it’s *spatial*. So like, Marcie can set up that the space to her upper right will represent Malaya, and then that space represents Malaya for this conversation. Marcie can gesture to encompass herself and the Malaya-space to mean ‘Malaya and me’. And Marcie can sign ‘same’ between the Malaya-spot and Sal, to instantly say that Malaya and Sal are similar.
Leorale
There would also be a ton of facial expression required, it does everything that your vocal inflection would do in a spoken language.
Leorale
So on further thought, maybe it looks like:
Sal signs the word “friends” between where she and Marcie are standing, and gestures forwards into the future. “Possible?”
Marcie signs “Yes” and “maybe” with the facial expression shown to make it into “sure, possibly”. Marcie sets up where Malaya is in this conversation (by signing Malaya’s name in the air there). She encompasses herself and the Malaya-space to the sign “friends” over here, and encompasses herself and Sal to the sign “friends” over there, and signs “same” between those two friend-places.
Sal: “One request. Not same”.
….I don’t know enough slang to have any idea how to say “I have a type”. I could say “Women similar to you and Malaya, I like them” which would work, but ASL slang probably has something more specific.
Sal could put “this conversation” over here, sign “many parts”, collect all the parts and say “I don’t like these”.
….I *think*. Again, kind of a beginner over here, could be wrong and would welcome correction. But I do think this illustrates why it’s hard to directly translate ASL into English.
Needfuldoer
Thanks! Most of what I learned about signing was from Linda on Sesame Street, so take that as you may.
It’s not really easy to find written ASL lessons, probably at least in part because it’s so reliant on context and space.
Marsh Maryrose
This is so cool! Thank you for explaining this in such detail.
The idea of a spatially-based language was a mind-blown moment for me.
Marcie is mute not deaf. She knows what Sal sounds like when speaking. The part of the brain that processes hearing speech also processes reading sign. Marcie literally hears Sal sign with Sal’s voice.
Why is Sal signing anyway? It’s not like Marcie’s deaf.
Nymphie
I think it got too emotionally heavy for her to say the words out loud.
Axel
Yes, especially as she also moved into signing when she had an argument with Marcie (don’t know the page but it started with her saying aloud ‘what do you mean you already did all the stuff’
Owlmirror
In addition to emotional heaviness, there’s also the point of being semi-private by speaking a language most people don’t know.
Of course, that leaves the possibility of those who do know accidentally listening (or in this case, watching).
Amias
ASL is its own language, with its own grammar. It’s probably easier to hold a conversation if both people are speaking one language, rather than two with different grammatical structures.
Romanticide
walls have ears and even if they are at the outside there is a lower chance to for nearby people to know about what is being talked if Sal also signs what she wants to say.
Unless she’s fingerspelling or signing English (which would be hard to understand by Marcie might get it based on signing with Sal a lot) no. My understanding is accents within ASL have more to do with minor sign variations and regional signs (things one region would spell out whereas another has invented a sign for it because it’s common, like a regional food).
That’s a yes. What is an accent if not “regional differences” in how you say things in the same language. Some signs are significantly different, so the difference between “you (plural)”, “Y’all”, and “yinz.” Then you have the ones that just differ in the angle of the hand or the direction of the movement, which would be more like what most people would think of as an accent.
I’m so happy that they are communicating and that this won’t affect their friendship in a major way. Now the questions are, is Marcie going to continue pursuing Malaya and how will that go? And will Sal and Malaya ever be anything other than 100% hostile to each other?
Seems like it will affect their friendship in a major way. I think that’s the point Marcie’s making when she says “probably in the same way I’m going to be friends with Malaya”. It’s difficult for a friendship to be balanced when one side wants something the other doesn’t. Doesn’t mean Sal isn’t going to try her best to stay friends anyway, of course!
Still eleven weeks, not that anyone’s perserverating or anything.
Clif
Perserverating?
Hold on while I consult Google…
Perseveration according to psychology, psychiatry, and speech-language pathology, is the repetition of a particular response (such as a word, phrase, or gesture) regardless of the absence or cessation of a stimulus. It is usually caused by a brain injury or other organic disorder. Symptoms include “lacking ability to transition or switch ideas appropriately with the social context, as evidenced by the repetition of words or gestures after they have ceased to be socially relevant or appropriate”,
Okay. Now I’m officially confused. Large buffers and buffer Marcies are always socially appropriate and any brain damage I may have accumulated from reading Lovecraft as a youngster is completely irrelevant.
Marsh Maryrose
This is in reference to the Buffer Watch, in the leftmost column, near the top, right under the HiveWorks logo, and also to the semantic ambiguity between “buffer” as “more buff,” and “buffer” as an actual buffer. I suppose I was trying (and apparently failing) to humorously imply that either Willis is somewhat obsessive about his buffer, or that I am, or perhaps both.
None of this matters, since the King in Yellow has already driven you insane.
vlademir1
Please, I’m not usually one to explore forbidden Chambers nor to name he who should not be names, but driving one insane is far less Hastur’s bag than his half brother’s.
Clif
Pedant. There is enough insanity for everyone.
StClair
You get a mania, and you get a mania, and…
He Who Abides
^Worst. Oprah giveaway. EVER.
BarerMender
Maybe a misspelling. There’s a word “perseverating,” but I don’t remember what it means.
Clif
Abdul Alhazred would know. You might consult his works.
Leorale
Perseverating is to think excessively about the same thing over and over. Ruminating is another handy word for it, like the way a sheep (which is a ruminant) chews her cud over and over all day.
I ♡ words
163 thoughts on “Type”
butts
man it’s funny how that southern accent translates, eh
Doctor_Who
Although the scar on her hand does give her a slight lisp.
Chronos
“If someone with one arm speaks with sign language is that a speech impediment or an accent?”
Here might be your answer Krillin.
Spriteless Girl
It’s modified sign language. I mean, if you want a seperate word for everything wouldn’t a new word not on the spectrum of the words you said be even better?
Colineo
DBZ:A fan, I see.
butts
god do we all just have one brain cell between us or what
ValdVin
It appears so.
Marsh Maryrose
Dumbing of Age Book 10: Do We All Just Have One Brain Cell Between Us or What
Clif
But for that to work, butts would have to become a DOA character.
I would be okay with this.
Jamie
They’re not?
Zach
They are the sole protagonist.
butts
heck sh’yeah i am
Deanatay
No, Butts Disease is a recurring character in all of Willis’ works.
Just because butts is Patient Zero, doesn’t make him a character.
Marsh Maryrose
Sue has a tag. Cholma doesn’t have a tag but has made a cameo appearance. Willis has the power to reach across the fourth wall.
Clif
Dumbing of Age Book 10: Willis has the power to reach across the fourth wall.
Clif
What I said, but with Caps.
Marsh Maryrose
Here’s a thing that has kind of flummoxed me in reading the comments tonight.
ASL has its own freaking grammar. Any translation you see of ASL into English sentences is just that: a translation. It could be translated into Danish, or Russian, or Yoruba, and it would still be a translation.
Willis chose to make the English translation of Sal’s signing follow Sal’s spoken speech patterns, and somehow this is a big freaking deal, and I kinda doubt he ever expected that. I certainly didn’t.
Marcie and Sal are not communicating in Signed Exact English. They are communicating in ASL. The words you are seeing on the page are a translation, not a transliteration. It’s not that big of a deal.
NelC
It’s a big thing because most people don’t know anything about sign, it isn’t part of their daily experience and they’ve never had to process any thoughts about the idiosyncrasies of sign. It’s not freaking out, it’s genuine curiosity about what accent transliterates to in sign, if anything. They have no data to even guess, so they ask.
Needfuldoer
It took me a second to realize Sal was signing. At first glance I assumed all of the blue dialogue was Marcie’s, then I noticed Sal’s hands were in signing-blue and the translation followed Sal’s speech patterns.
What would a transliteration of this conversation look like?
Leorale
My sign is very beginner, but from my rudimentary knowledge, maybe something like:
You, me, with friends, future?
Yeah, maybe, same as Malaya with me friends, future.
Please, not say Malaya me same.
Look, I like similar women, ok?
All these parts of this conversation, I don’t like.
Please chime in, people with more ASL knowledge.
Leorale
What’s really cool with ASL grammar is that it’s *spatial*. So like, Marcie can set up that the space to her upper right will represent Malaya, and then that space represents Malaya for this conversation. Marcie can gesture to encompass herself and the Malaya-space to mean ‘Malaya and me’. And Marcie can sign ‘same’ between the Malaya-spot and Sal, to instantly say that Malaya and Sal are similar.
Leorale
There would also be a ton of facial expression required, it does everything that your vocal inflection would do in a spoken language.
Leorale
So on further thought, maybe it looks like:
Sal signs the word “friends” between where she and Marcie are standing, and gestures forwards into the future. “Possible?”
Marcie signs “Yes” and “maybe” with the facial expression shown to make it into “sure, possibly”. Marcie sets up where Malaya is in this conversation (by signing Malaya’s name in the air there). She encompasses herself and the Malaya-space to the sign “friends” over here, and encompasses herself and Sal to the sign “friends” over there, and signs “same” between those two friend-places.
Sal: “One request. Not same”.
….I don’t know enough slang to have any idea how to say “I have a type”. I could say “Women similar to you and Malaya, I like them” which would work, but ASL slang probably has something more specific.
Sal could put “this conversation” over here, sign “many parts”, collect all the parts and say “I don’t like these”.
….I *think*. Again, kind of a beginner over here, could be wrong and would welcome correction. But I do think this illustrates why it’s hard to directly translate ASL into English.
Needfuldoer
Thanks! Most of what I learned about signing was from Linda on Sesame Street, so take that as you may.
It’s not really easy to find written ASL lessons, probably at least in part because it’s so reliant on context and space.
Marsh Maryrose
This is so cool! Thank you for explaining this in such detail.
The idea of a spatially-based language was a mind-blown moment for me.
Jhon
This is excellent! Thumbs up!
Elsendor
i had no idea about any of this! this has been a great learning experience, thanks!
Ophidiophile
Marcie is mute not deaf. She knows what Sal sounds like when speaking. The part of the brain that processes hearing speech also processes reading sign. Marcie literally hears Sal sign with Sal’s voice.
Ana Chronistic
oh dang I didn’t know ASL had Southern twang
TheMoreYouKnow.gif
(granted, that might be what Malaya was doing)
Ana Chronistic
[inb4: late bc Firefox is refreshing for some reason and Chrome wasn’t set up]
(also idgaf)
butts
yall just got BUTTSNIPED
(nobody cares)
Ana Chronistic
better than buttwiped?
Needfuldoer
“Butts niped”?
BarerMender
Nips butted?
ValdVin
I don’t know anything of ASL. Is Sal really signing “If Ah got one request”?
He Who Abides
I suspect that Marcie’s just seeing it that way, since Sal usually speaks with that accent.
David
Why is Sal signing anyway? It’s not like Marcie’s deaf.
Nymphie
I think it got too emotionally heavy for her to say the words out loud.
Axel
Yes, especially as she also moved into signing when she had an argument with Marcie (don’t know the page but it started with her saying aloud ‘what do you mean you already did all the stuff’
Owlmirror
In addition to emotional heaviness, there’s also the point of being semi-private by speaking a language most people don’t know.
Of course, that leaves the possibility of those who do know accidentally listening (or in this case, watching).
Amias
ASL is its own language, with its own grammar. It’s probably easier to hold a conversation if both people are speaking one language, rather than two with different grammatical structures.
Romanticide
walls have ears and even if they are at the outside there is a lower chance to for nearby people to know about what is being talked if Sal also signs what she wants to say.
NatNatNat
Unless she’s fingerspelling or signing English (which would be hard to understand by Marcie might get it based on signing with Sal a lot) no. My understanding is accents within ASL have more to do with minor sign variations and regional signs (things one region would spell out whereas another has invented a sign for it because it’s common, like a regional food).
shadowcell
i really hope it’s possible to have an accent in ASL, that would be unironically awesome
Mydnyt
I know drunk slurring is possible. It’s also incredibly hilarious.
dethtoll
Only inasmuch as there are some minor regional differences in certain signs.
Terry
That’s a yes. What is an accent if not “regional differences” in how you say things in the same language. Some signs are significantly different, so the difference between “you (plural)”, “Y’all”, and “yinz.” Then you have the ones that just differ in the angle of the hand or the direction of the movement, which would be more like what most people would think of as an accent.
Marsh Maryrose
ASL is a language. Ergo, it has accents.
Stephen Bierce
Playlist…
Kyrik Michalowski
I’m so happy that they are communicating and that this won’t affect their friendship in a major way. Now the questions are, is Marcie going to continue pursuing Malaya and how will that go? And will Sal and Malaya ever be anything other than 100% hostile to each other?
Kinoko
Seems like it will affect their friendship in a major way. I think that’s the point Marcie’s making when she says “probably in the same way I’m going to be friends with Malaya”. It’s difficult for a friendship to be balanced when one side wants something the other doesn’t. Doesn’t mean Sal isn’t going to try her best to stay friends anyway, of course!
William Leonard Reese Jr.
I do not think that there could have been a more insulting thing she could have said to Sal.
Also what is her type? Brash girls?
Yumi
People who only see her as a friend?
Marsh Maryrose
Kick-ass girls.
GoblinScribe
People who aren’t into her.
woobie
ouch
Mr. Bulmbin
Dark-skinned, outwardly kinda rude, definitely kickass.
butts
…
wait this is tagged “malaya”
butts
also is marcie just a buffer version of the marcie from peanuts and am i the last person to notice
John
It’s more obvious when you go back to the Walkyverse version.
Lingo
It’s come up before.
Kyoulkoa
Buffer?
David M Willis
*runs up*
what about a buffer
Marsh Maryrose
Still eleven weeks, not that anyone’s perserverating or anything.
Clif
Perserverating?
Hold on while I consult Google…
Perseveration according to psychology, psychiatry, and speech-language pathology, is the repetition of a particular response (such as a word, phrase, or gesture) regardless of the absence or cessation of a stimulus. It is usually caused by a brain injury or other organic disorder. Symptoms include “lacking ability to transition or switch ideas appropriately with the social context, as evidenced by the repetition of words or gestures after they have ceased to be socially relevant or appropriate”,
Okay. Now I’m officially confused. Large buffers and buffer Marcies are always socially appropriate and any brain damage I may have accumulated from reading Lovecraft as a youngster is completely irrelevant.
Marsh Maryrose
This is in reference to the Buffer Watch, in the leftmost column, near the top, right under the HiveWorks logo, and also to the semantic ambiguity between “buffer” as “more buff,” and “buffer” as an actual buffer. I suppose I was trying (and apparently failing) to humorously imply that either Willis is somewhat obsessive about his buffer, or that I am, or perhaps both.
None of this matters, since the King in Yellow has already driven you insane.
vlademir1
Please, I’m not usually one to explore forbidden Chambers nor to name he who should not be names, but driving one insane is far less Hastur’s bag than his half brother’s.
Clif
Pedant. There is enough insanity for everyone.
StClair
You get a mania, and you get a mania, and…
He Who Abides
^Worst. Oprah giveaway. EVER.
BarerMender
Maybe a misspelling. There’s a word “perseverating,” but I don’t remember what it means.
Clif
Abdul Alhazred would know. You might consult his works.
Leorale
Perseverating is to think excessively about the same thing over and over. Ruminating is another handy word for it, like the way a sheep (which is a ruminant) chews her cud over and over all day.
I ♡ words