268

Afternoon
Posted on November 3, 2016 by David M Willis
2016-10-patreon2previewOctober's two bonus strips are now up at the Dumbing of Age Patreon!  The first is about Sayid, who won the month's poll.  The second is about ... well, you can guess from the preview panel, I figger.

268 thoughts on “Afternoon”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    “I can believe it–I floored Becky’s butthole dad with one punch! Only Mary’s EGO is more massive than he is.”

    1. Ana Chronistic

      “Come on, Joe, hat do I gotta do to get your attention? Wave my vagina around??”

      “What! No, that’s crazy talk. Boobs will do.”

      1. Doctor_Who

        Let those flesh flags fly!

        …That’s still just about the least appealing euphemism for breasts I have ever heard, so thanks for that, Willis.

        1. Raibean

          I wasn’t thinking of breasts when you said that…

        2. Tacos

          Doesn’t sound all that appealing for either….

        3. Annie

          I wasn’t either. And to add insult to injury, I was instantly reminded of the time my friend called them “meat curtains.”

        4. Dean

          No, those are something else.

        5. Raibean

          That’s exactly what we were thinking of, though.

        6. Ragingagnostic

          “Flesh flags”? Does that refer to huge ears?

        7. Godfather

          “Flesh flags” makes me think of HUGE skin tags on one’s neck…which I’m going to stick with. That’s fairly innocent, considering.

        8. Ana Chronistic

          come on

          TONGUES

    2. Gespenst

      Well, Toedad was straight out of a car crash, Mary was not.

      1. KingOfGreyfell

        She did take a rather impressive fall from her high-horse, though.

  2. Mr. Mendo

    Well, this day is going well…

  3. wheelpath

    Really, Willis? Old lonely island memes

    1. Ana Chronistic

      dangit I thought of a better meme… Billie as One-Punch (Wo)Man

      1. JustCheetoDust

        Her losing a fight to Ruth kind of fucks up that comparison.

        That, and I can’t stop picturing Faz as Agoni’s grandson, even if that would make Blaine the creator of the Hero Association.

        1. JustCheetoDust

          …and I messed that up, that would be Blaine’s father. Whatever.

        2. sidehack

          That butt-chinned little bastard will never not make me giggle like a child.

      2. Scar Man!!!

        Billie as Batman. Mary is Guy Gardner

        1. The Other Mike

          That is pretty much where my mind goes when I hear or see the words “one punch” anywhere.

        2. Cybersnark

          Which makes Dottie Blue Beetle.

          Joyce is totally Mary Marvel, which I guess leaves Walky to be Booster Gold.

        3. Scar Man!!!

          Those fit

        4. Cattleprod

          I never knew how much I needed ‘DoA cast as JLI’ in my life until now.

        5. SgtWadeyWilson

          Wouldn’t Carla fit for Blue? Tech genius geek that thinks they’re awesome and they kinda are?

          Galasso as Max Lord.

          Is anybody a dorky yet surprisingly effective detective? It doesn’t matter if it’s a stretch, I just feel like we need an Elongated Man.

          Oh, and Becky/Dina for… waitwaitwait, if I say that somebody will kill me!

    2. Orion Fury

      Thank you for that.

    3. TachyonCode

      One of my favorite ones, at that. Keep it up, Willis!

    4. KingOfSpill

      Now we know how long his backlog is.

  4. AnvilPro

    Joe is imagining Mary on the floor

  5. Fauna Sarcastic

    joe doesn’t believe in afternoons, only nights and the morning after

    1. Jason

      But what about afternoon delights?

      Ah-ah, afternoon delights!

      1. MatsuoTanuki

        That son is quite possibly the greatest composition in human history.

        And if you disagree… I. WILL. FIGHT YOU.

        1. Disloyal Subject

          I don’t actually recognize those lyrics off the top of my head. Am I entitled to a fight?

        2. Geneseepaws

          Sky rockets in flight,
          Afternoon deli-I-ights,
          Aaaafternoon delights.

        3. Willoughby Chase

          Some internets to you, kindly commenter.

        4. a/snow mous/e

          I think I’m too young?

        5. Roborat

          All memory of that song should be expunged from existence. It is not, however, the worst song ever written. That dubious honour goes to muskrat love.

        6. Emperor Norton II

          I see you and raise the song “Stripper Vicar” by Mansun.

        7. NelC

          MacArthur Park

    2. Needfuldoer

      What about coffee spoons?

      1. Hescotti

        No need to be measuring out lives just now.

  6. Shiro

    Well…this should be interesting. Fingers crossed for some movement away from douchebag immature sexist Joe? Pretty please with sugar on top?

    1. Doopyboop

      My fingers are crossed as well!

    2. Spencer

      I think what we’ll be seeing is similar to the arc they went through in It’s Walky!, only with Joe not being quite as mature and willing to open up to Joyce as he was there. Joe here is a lot more walled when it comes to emotions.

      I am begging for JoJo to become canon in this universe, lemme tell you.

      1. Shiro

        Shortpacked is all I’ve read of Walkyverse so far, I plan to correct that eventually but it hasn’t happened yet.

        1. JustCheetoDust

          I tell myself something similar whenever I look at the unplayed portion of my Steam library.

          (might as well throw in XBox Live, PSN, Virtual Console, and 80% of what I own on disc)

      2. Darkoneko

        Wryyyyyyy ?

      3. EvilMidnightLurker

        I must admit, speculating on what kind of Stands everyone would have is addictive.

        1. Spencer

          Dina would have Scary Monsters, natch.

      4. Felgraf

        You thought it was Jojo, but it was ME, DIO!

        … Sorry couldn’t resist that.

    3. Fart Captor

      Well, he’s in gender studies class and has spoken to someone and it wasn’t sleazy, so that seems like an improvement so far

      1. Disloyal Subject

        He’s pretty good at being unsleazy when it’s made clear that it’s unwelcome, eg Sarah’s “Back off, carnivore!” tirade. I think Joyce is on his non-sleaze list; they’ve had plenty of civil interaction even aside from texting.

        1. thejeff

          The problem is “made clear that it’s unwelcome” pretty much has to involve tirades and physical threats.

    4. ZerglingOne

      Hasn’t it been shown that Joyce confides in him? He’s definitely douchey on the outside, but he’s shown compassion.

      I don’t remember exactly when, but there was a text conversation they were having during one of Joyce’s crisis moments where he was a completely reasonable human being.

      1. ZerglingOne

        http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/help-2/

        In fact, it was exactly the last time we saw Joe.

        But even before that, it had been a mystery who she’d been texting frequently for help. That was just the reveal that it was Joe.

      2. Fart Captor

        That was on Sunday (yesterday), and she was getting advice dealing with her family. (The texts on Saturday were with Dorothy)

        It’s a very recent development, that began on Friday during gender studies, and she had been pretty much done with his shit at the start of class.

        1. ZerglingOne

          Even still, he’s a better person than he’s made out to be. That’s part of classic narrative. The character that you’re made to more or less despise, who comes around to being a good person in the end.

        2. Fart Captor

          I agree except for that first sentence. Saying he’s better than he’s “made out to be” implies too heavily that his shittier behavior was just misunderstood, and not, y’know, shitty.

          He definitely has potential to be a much better person if he can shed some of the crap that’s been holding him back.

        3. ischemgeek

          He’s def growing as a person – I think this cautious friendship he’s building with Joyce is going to help him personally – because his biggest character flaw is that he legitimately does not view women as full people with their own thoughts and ambitions, worthy of as much respect as he gives a man. He views women as targets and things to be acquired.

          I suspect that as he learns more about Joyce and sees more of the parallels between her situation and his (his dad’s an emotionally abusive creepazoid who probably tried to play him against his mother, Joyce’s mom is an emotionally abusive creepazoid who continually plays everyone off against everyone else), he might start to see her as a person and realize how dickish his behavior was to her – and maybe that’ll spread to others in the class.

          He’ll always be a shameless flirt – that’s his personality – but he’ll learn how to be respectful and genuinely good on consent as opposed to just paying lipservice to it like he does now.

        4. thejeff

          Except that I’m not sure he’s been made out to be all that bad. He’s pretty much been presented as the good horndog. He’s all about consent and he gets unfairly beaten up by Joyce & Mike. The only person we’ve actually seen him with is Roz, who’s clearly alright with what he’s offering and taking it on her terms. (Or Penny, which has it’s own set of problems.)
          There’s text that hints at some serious problems with his behavior, but it’s all in hints. If we’re going to have a deeper look at Joe, I’d really like to get a better look at his “Game”. How he reacts when he meets someone who’s reluctant, but not being quite so emphatic about it as Joyce or Sarah. How hard he pushes to get that consent he’s so proud of. How often alcohol is involved. Is he actually honest about just wanting the casual hook-up. Etc.

          Acknowledging his behavior as a problem if it is or making it clear that it really isn’t, before we move on to the “Joe falling in love” arc, if that’s where we’re going. The “Joe actually opening up and dealing with some of his trauma” arc isn’t necessarily the same arc, but it might be a good place to look at the problems with his coping strategy.

        5. Shiro

          Look, if a guy talks about using alcohol to lubricate sexual encounters and needs actual screaming at to get him to fuck off (after it’s been made perfectly and repeatedly clear the girl in question is not interested), he’s not a good guy. He’s not a rapist, and that’s the nicest thing I can say about him. You don’t get cookies for not being a rapist.

        6. thejeff

          I agree. But I’m still not sure that’s how we’re intended to read him. That’s why I want to see a closer look at him “at work” before we move into the redemption arc. I want us to see and him to have to deal with how much of a problem he actually is.
          I don’t want to go straight into the dealing with his trauma and opening up and dating Joyce arcs without it being made clear that his horndog approach isn’t as harmless as presented.
          We haven’t actually seen the harm.

        7. Fart Captor

          “The problem is “made clear that it’s unwelcome” pretty much has to involve tirades and physical threats.”

          This is sufficient, my opinion. There doesn’t actually even need to be “harm” for him to be sleazy and awful, if saying “no” to him requires so much work, and an ongoing effort.

        8. thejeff

          I think you’re missing what I’m saying. I’m not arguing that Joe is really cool and his standard approach isn’t sleazy and awful. I’m saying that narratively speaking it really should be shown clearly. We should be presented with and he should be confronted with actual harm he’s done before we move into the redemption phase. That’s an essential part of the arc. If he just moves past the “horndog looking for casual sex” to “horndog wanting a relationship”, that harm never gets addressed. He never has to own up to those problems.

          At the moment it’s pretty easy to look past the hints that he’s trouble, focus on his emphasis on consent and conclude that he’s harmless and anyone who has trouble with him is just upset at the casual sex.

        9. Tan

          [quote] (The texts on Saturday were with Dorothy) [/quote]

          No, that was also Joe. Many speculated it was Dorothy, as Dorothy had offered for Joyce to text her, but the other end of the conversation was never seen until the very end of Saturday night: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/bloc-2/

        10. Fart Captor

          Here we have Dorothy, on Saturday, telling Walky she’d been checking in with Joyce:
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/checkingin/

          She can text more than one person over the course of an entire weekend.

        11. Tan

          Just because Dorothy checks in with Joyce doesn’t mean any of the on-panel text messages we saw from Joyce went to Dorothy. Narratively it would make no sense to see a long series of text messages that are written as if to the same person but holding back who that person was, then reveal Joyce texting Joe only for the other texts to not be to Joe. Especially given that there was another not-showing-the-recipient text -after- the strip you linked, with the Joe reveal after that.

          I’m sure Dorothy did send Joyce a message or few, and most likely Joyce responded off-panel something like ‘Fine’, but all indications are that all of the opening-up-about-things texts we actually saw on-panel were to Joe.

        12. Emperor Norton II

          Thanks for writing what I wanted to write, Tan.

          Now I can disagree with Fart Captor again, and all is right with the world.

        13. Fart Captor

          The way I’d read it originally, I figured that was the point where she’d switched to texting Joe, but you’ve got a point. All the texts on Saturday were focusing on the same issue of how to deal with / survive her family, and Dotty would have been almost no use there, since her family does not seem to have any sort of drama at all.

          I don’t concede, though! I just need to figure out a way to spin this so I was right all along, and once again somehow forcing Emperor Norton to agree with me >:3

  7. Cattleprod

    One punch? Man, now I want to see Batman punching Guy Gardner redone with Billie and Mary.

    1. Scar Man!!!

      goddamn it I know someone beat me to it

    2. Ash_Ketchup

      “One punch? Man”

      lol

      1. Disloyal Subject

        Billie’s great, but she’s no Saitama. She can only lift, like, three people over her head.

  8. Dave Van Domelen

    Mary == Guy Gardner?

    1. Doctor_Who

      Nah, Guy is only an asshole about 50% of the time.

      1. Robbzilla

        Back at the time of the One Punch, Guy was an asshole about 95% of the time.

    2. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      Oops, I was confusing him with Gerald Gardner.

    3. Orion Fury

      [Insert Fridge Joke Here?]

    4. Geneseepaws

      At least not Chance Gardiner. … I guess you’d have to Be There.

  9. Doctor_Who

    We know they were texting during the Weekend of Awkwardness, but we only saw a bit of it.

    Here’s where we learn that Joyce sent Joe her 32 chapter epic Hymmel / Dexter crossover fic (with special appearance by Ultra Car), 140 characters at a time.

    1. Orion Fury

      That poor phone must be so tired.

  10. poofdepoof

    Yay, Joe-Joyce friendship! Or at least, development of it. 🙂

    1. newllend(henryvolt)

      It’s a start.

  11. Volt790

    Oh crud, I think Joe broke.

    On the other end, Time to make a checklist of how many people dislike Mary
    -All
    That was easy.

    1. Anorak

      has it been stated that mary dislikes herself?

      1. Orion Fury

        I think she’s on the list of “Those Entities That Like Mary”. I’d hazard a guess and say she’s alone on it.

        1. Lipke the Articulate

          Actually, Ross MacIntyre deeply respects Mary. I’m pretty sure that’s it, though.

  12. Raibean

    What’s wrong with Joe?

    1. Shiro

      He’s uncomfortable coming face to face with a girl he’s engaged with on a respectful personal level, without trying to make her a conquest. Not sure how to act next.

      1. Gordon

        I think it might also be vulnerability. Maybe even more so than her gender.

        Presumably, Joyce didn’t do all the talking over the weekend.

        It’s more than one new thing for Joe.

        1. Bluewind

          I hope your right, because the way he looks worries me and your idea fits the situation well.

        2. ischemgeek

          I wonder if it’s a combination of that and some personal stuff going on. He looks to be brooding on something.

      2. Lailah

        No, he can talk with Dotty fine. Whatever his problem is, it’s personal shit. Drama stuff he is trying and failing to bottle up inside, in all probability.

        1. Spencer

          He pinned Dorothy as a potential lay a minute after she and Danny broke up, and also called her desperate for making out with Walky.

        2. Lailah

          Yeah, and he’s had like two extended conversations where he just treated her as a friend. Which is a big chunk of his on-screen extended conversations w/ people.

        3. Lailah

          An offhanded joke is always going to be less relevant than his actual actions, is what I’m saying.

    2. (((Mkvenner)))

      I think a lot things involving his parents divorce have come bubble back up to the surface for him.

    3. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      Feels are for cyberspace only. Meatspace is for physical stuff only. And Joyce* has made it clear that is not on the table.

      * Special Guest Mike as “Punch-man”.

      1. Orion Fury

        Multiple-Punch-Man.

    4. Fart Captor

      Lots

    5. Nicster216

      Maybe it’s because he’s slept with so many girls he’s having difficulty talking to a girl whose his friend that he hasn’t slept with?

    6. Bagge

      He got a low score on his math test.

    7. Belegcam

      He looks more confused/distracted than riven with internal conflict. My guess is that he attributed a lot less meaning to the weekend’s conversation than Joyce did.

    8. Willoughby Chase

      We don’t know.

  13. Spencer

    Oh look, a man and a woman with an antagonistic relationship having difficulties speaking to one another.

    They are soul mates.

    1. John

      Nah, it’s a man and a woman who spent the weekend having a lengthy heart-to-heart conversation.

    2. zoelogical

      yr joking but this is the start of a romantic comedy without any punchlines

    3. Fart Captor

      Also, the only other dudes in the main cast who are into girls are Danny and Mike.

      Unless like, Ken or somebody gets promoted to a speaking role.

      1. Idontcarenomore

        Danny is bi, maybe, he’s still searching himself apparently.

        1. Tan

          Danny is bi. That is well-confirmed both in-story and by Word of Willis, no maybes about it.

          A part of being bi includes being into girls, so this does not contradict what FC said.

      2. Disloyal Subject

        So Walky’s not part of the main cast?
        Jacob has an entry on the Cast page, too, but I wouldn’t consider him part of the main cast.

        1. TheHorseCouncil

          Walky is spoken for. As is jacob at this time.

        2. Spencer

          Walky and Jacob still count as potential love interests, the same way Ethan counted as one for Danny while he was dating Amber, in the sense that there’s a preexisting relationship and a compatible orientation.

          The most likely of those, Walky/Joyce, is almost certainly not gonna happen in this series, though. Between cast relations and how it went down in the Walkyverse, Joe is probably the only real likely candidate for getting into a relationship with Joyce.

  14. John

    I’ve just recalled that Joe’s ability to open up over the net, but not in person, is a multiversal constant.

    1. Orion Fury

      It could possible be considered a near human being constant. Something, Something, Anonymous.

  15. Coco Pommel

    ONE PUUUUUUUUUNCH!!!!!!!!

  16. Reltzik

    “Wait, what? Now that we’ve got a friendlyish relationship via text I’m supposed to modify my public behavior towards you in a way that others might REALIZE we don’t hate each other any more?”

  17. JessWitt

    Whoa, news is traveling faster through these strips.

    1. Orion Fury

      It seemed that there might have been a small time skip.

  18. tim gueguen

    Joe’s first appearance since mid-June.

  19. Rukduk

    Joe seems to have a particularly haunted look today. Perhaps texting Joyce that advice brought up some painful memories he’s been trying to suppress or something? He just looks…dazed. Like he’s lost somewhere in his head and doesn’t know how to get out.

    1. Nono

      It’s the longest Danny’s gone without talking about his life to Joe.

      He’s not sure what this feeling is. Is it… happiness?

      1. Spencer

        Joe’s depressed that he’s been replaced with another Transformers obsessed, well chinned Jewish hunk.

        1. Orion Fury

          Poor guy, there does seem to be a plethora of them, huh?

        2. Deanatay

          Never thought Joe had much interest in Transformers, though…

  20. Mav

    Adventures with emotionally repressed man! Although there is always the argument that toxic masculinity plays a role in this, I’d like to point out that there are a lot of other reasons someone can turn out very emotionally repressed in person but open in virtual or otherwise indirect communication.

    I definitely have done what Joe did here – it’s something I still struggle with.

    1. Shiro

      Emotionally Repressed Man, One Punch Woman…Amazi-Girl suddenly has some competition!

  21. Bluewind

    Joe looks… distracted. I hope nothing is wrong. It could be him keeping up appearances or developing something for Joyce, but it could also be something else like a parent or loved one in the hospital, running into someone that caused him some kind of pain/drama, the suicide scare of someone he knows indirectly bringing up history about someone he knew who tried it, or something else I’m not thinking of. I’m hoping it’s something more superficial.

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      I am not sure there would be enough angst to go around.

    2. Orion Fury

      Not Enough Apologies

  22. Opus the Poet

    Joe is quite loquatious (sp?) in rson isn’t he?

    1. Conuly

      Loquacious. C, not t. (Since you asked, I mean.)

      1. Orion Fury

        At least it isn’t being combined with Sesquipedalian.

        1. a/snow mous/e

          Oh, that has TWO a’s…

        2. Orion Fury

          Oh, I thought I spelled it right. Sorry about that.

  23. Cthulhu's Intern

    ONE PUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNCH!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImBolnTVH8

    1. DarkoNeko

      \m/

    2. Felgraf

      CANNOT WAIT FOR SEASON 2

  24. Leorale

    (Alt text) SHE’S NOT A PART OF YOUR SYSTEM

    1. rectilinearpropagation

      I was going to be really disappointed if someone hadn’t already made this comment.

  25. Charles Phipps

    I’m going with Joe is fine being Joyce’s secret friend but has no desire to be her friend in public because he’s interested in being Mister Party and doesn’t want to screw up his groove.

    1. Orion Fury

      Here’s hoping he never has an old man tossed out a window…

    2. Fart Captor

      I dunno, to me it looks like he’s feeling troubled or even a little shaken up about something, and genuinely didn’t notice her say hello.

      He was vaguely angry about something on Friday, and considering the texts between them on Sunday, I’m gonna guess some kinda shitstorm brewing between his divorced parents.

      1. a4lbi

        Maybe still worried about Danny?

        1. Fart Captor

          I doubt it. He didn’t seem so worried about Danny that he’d be in a funk about it.

          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/upset-2/

          If Joe’s succumbing to feelings, I gotta think it’s something to do with the reason he avoids them to begin with.

        2. Disloyal Subject

          I’m a little inclined to disagree with that first paragraph. Joe looks to me very much like he could spiral into a funk if Danny stays closed off.
          For all that he complains about Danny, they’ve been besties eternal for quite a while. While I could be wrong, I don’t think it’s something with his parents – I get the impression that’s been unpleasant background noise to him for a while, a sort of constant misery. This sudden unresponsiveness suggests to me that he’s shaken up by a more recent shock; stewing in worry for Danny could fit the bill, or at least add fuel to the fire.

        3. ischemgeek

          Gotta go with Fart Captor on this one. I do think Joe cares about Danny – but on the other hand, I also think the closeness of their relationship is very one-sided. Danny has felt more attachment to Joe than the other way around for quite a while.

          I imagine Joe would have some worry about Danny – but I don’t know if it’d be enough to make him stew in a funk. On the parent visit, his parents seemed to be able to get genuine emotion out of him beyond horn-dog smug, horny, joy, and mild annoyance which was all he ever let penetrate his mask before. So if I had to place a bet, it’d be on the reason Joyce felt Joe would be a good choice to confide in – his lack of a good relationship with his folks.

        4. Joe Archer

          It was Danny who (as a child) drew the bromance that ended up on a parental fridge, not Joe.

        5. Disloyal Subject

          Hm, good point about Joe’s parents provoking a wider range of emotions. I still think y’all are underestimating his bond with Danny, though; sure, Danny’s always been the more invested in their friendship, but with him drifting off and being stressed, Joe might be feeling it. “You don’t knoe what you’ve got until it’s gone,” and all that. Parental drama does seem more likely, though, given recent Danny drama would probably have been shown onpanel (and Mike decided to target Ethan rather than Danny for his spite seduction).

  26. Quinctia

    Oh that weird moment when you are back face to face with someone you have been texting nonstop…

  27. Stephen R. Bierce

    *plays the guitar solo from Jimi Hendrix Experience’s “Hey Joe” on the hacked Muzak*

  28. DarkoNeko

    …someone else had a bad weekend.

  29. Spencer

    Don’t mind me, just here to brag about how Sayid won the patreon poll and he’s reappearing in January and I’m beside myself with glee.

    um yeah joe sure is nonchalant about josey whatever

  30. Tacos

    I was expecting more One Punch Man jokes out of you comments section. Shame on you. Shame.

    1. Spencer

      Hey we got a Guy Gardner reference. That’s what really matters.

    2. Orion Fury

      The morning is young.

    3. Darkoneko

      Look garder.

    4. Disloyal Subject

      I’m rather proud of us.

  31. Fart Captor

    Dang it Joyce, you shoulda made Becky come with you at least to this class today.

    But I suppose Becky meeting Leslie woulda solved too many problems 🙁

    1. Architex

      Yeah, solve too many problems too quickly, and there goes the webcomic.

    2. ety

      Just imagine if Leslie had our insight into most of the characters in the strip…

      1. BBCC

        “And YOU get therapy and YOU get therapy and YOU get a tutor and YOU talk to your friend and YOU here are some resources for LGBT+ youth who need their documents and to find shelter and YOU get therapy and YOU get therapy and YOU actually seem stable, good job.”

        1. Gwen

          + 5 million likes

        2. Bluewind

          Which one is the stable one?!?

        3. Lipke the Articulate

          I think that’s Jacob. Nobody else comes to mind.

        4. Scar Man!!!

          Jacob and Sierra annoy me because they are far stabler than I will ever be and I’m a middle class white cis male. If I can’t succeed with that background, I’m ducked

        5. ischemgeek

          Jacob, Sierra, and Dorothy.

          (Dorothy because she’s coping very well with her high workload and she does not seem to fall into the perfectionism trap of wrapping up her self-worth with her achievements)

        6. BBCC

          In my mind, it was Dorothy. I’d also say Danny, Sarah, Ethan, Sal, Dina, Becky, Roz, Mike, Joe, Carla, Jacob, or Marcie could fit. So, most of the main cast. That’s not to say they don’t have problems or that they couldn’t BENEFIT from therapy. It’s just to say that if they don’t (or refuse to, in some of their cases) they’ll probably be okay. I think Joyce needs some for her post-Ryan trauma, and for her crises of faith.

        7. Scar Man!!!

          who gets the car?

        8. BBCC

          Carla. Not because Leslie gave it, because she took it.

    3. Bagge

      She tried, but Becky made sure to tell her that today is Dina time.

      Sexy shenanigans aside, I think that is the right call. Dina felt insecure in he relationship after Becky spent her weekend with Joyce, and Becky really needs some time with her dinosaur chick as well. It was absolutely the right call of Joyce to accept it.

      1. thejeff

        Yeah, but there seems to be a thing that this particular period is Dina time, which is a shame because as cool and useful as her Bio class will be to Becky in the long run, a meeting with Leslie is more so in the short term.
        If there’s one class of Joyce’s that Becky should go with her to, it’s this one.

        Which is probably a good part of why she isn’t.

        1. BBCC

          To be fair, Joyce could ask to take Leslie up on her offer to help without Becky present. All she has to do is set up a day/time to meet and then bring Becky there.

        2. thejeff

          She certainly could, but barring further developments, she won’t. Becky showing up just to sit in on the class could be a catalyst for that help happening, even without Joyce/Becky specifically seeking it out.

        3. Fart Captor

          Hopefully Hank’s A+ dadding this weekend has restored some of Joyce’s ability to believe that at least some adults can be trusted

      2. Fart Captor

        I know, and it was a good call on Becky’s part. I just can’t wait for her to meet Professor Lesbean

        But now it can’t happen until at least Wednesday, and who knows how long that will be??

  32. Scar Man!!!

    Did she just reference the famous Guy Gardner “One punch! One punch!” scene?

    1. Marvelman

      Nah, I think that would be pushing it.

      1. Scar Man!!!

        let me rephrase that. Do you think Willis was referencing it? I don’t think Joyce’s parents let her read comics

  33. Kitschensyngk

    I won’t be part of Mary’s system!

    MAAAAAAAAN!!

  34. Marvelman

    Joe has been acting out of sorts for a while now, and we’re no closer to hearing why.

    1. Disloyal Subject

      We might be about to, unless Joyce decides to leave him be.

      1. BenRG

        Let’s face it, Joyce is not typically the sort of woman who subscribes to the ‘leave well enough alone’ school of interpersonal interaction, especially with those whom she regards as friends.

  35. Bagge

    “That doesn’t sound like Bill…. OK, but it doesn’t sound like Mary to… OK, I can’t believe it hasn’t happened earlier.”

  36. Larkle

    It was a one nighter heart-to-heart I guess?

  37. smooti

    Yep, he’s the kind of guy who won’t express himself as well through talking in public as he will privately texting. I’d know since I’m the same, though because of social anxiety rather than, I’m guessing, his obsession with being macho.

    1. Bagge

      Amber: I recognize the symptoms. I recommend an active night life to make up for lack of interpersonal daily communication.
      Joe: I so got that covered.

    2. ischemgeek

      I am also this kind of person – at least in part because my autism has a nasty tendency to render me nonverbal when I get upset. Even when I can fight through, my words are slurred and I have a hard time finding the right one and my stutter is horrible. So that’s a big part of why I do my best to never be upset in public – when you’re slurring and having trouble finding your words, people tend to assume you’re stoned and you get kicked out of places and threatened with expulsion/firing.

      1. Orion Fury

        It’s tough, mine become stilted, or I just skip words because my mind is moving too fast for my mouth to keep up.

  38. Bagge

    “PLEASE DON’T GET YOUR FEELS ALL OVER MY MACHO IMAGE!!!!!”

    1. Gwen

      SAYING IT IN ALL CAPS HELPS CONVEY MY COOL NONCHALANCE!

      1. Bagge

        ALSO MY AVOIDANCE OF EYE CONTACT SHOWS HOW ABOVE IT ALL I AM.

      2. Cephalo the Pod

        BUT DOESN’T EVERY CHARACTER TALK IN ALL CAPS?

        1. BenRG

          NO! IN STRIP CARTOONS BOLDFACE = CAPS!

        2. Orion Fury

          NOT ENOUGH BOLD!

  39. Lucius

    So many things to throw on the ground!

  40. Idontcarenomore

    I don’t think Joe is avoiding ‘public’ commentary with Joyce.
    Looked like he was actually off in some deep thinking, and not all that happy about whatever it is on his mind.
    It may well be his divorced parents are in the front of his mind based on his talk with Joyce about her crazyass paraents.

  41. BenRG

    Okay, Joyce, it looks like we’ve found your good deed for the day! I know that Joe isn’t exactly your favourite people but maybe you can help? At least show an interest in a guy who is usually bombastic on several levels but today looks miles away, hmm?

    1. BenRG

      You know, it suddenly occurred to me that I’d forgotten that we now know that Joyce has been confiding in Joe by text message for a while. I guess that’s just a measure of how totally out-of-character that seemed at the time that my brain just has never fully assimilated that!

  42. Eldritch Gentleman

    Are you telling me that Joe will have some Actual, Real problems? What kind of mad world did I wake up to… ?

    1. Scar Man!!!

      it’s been obvious to me since either the couples project or the time when he gave the “feelings are trouble” speech. I forget which came first

      1. Eldritch Gentleman

        Mhm Joe actually falling in love rather than just wanting some easy sex? Now that would be interesting.

        1. BenRG

          It’s not unprecedented across the Willis multiverse.

  43. Scar Man!!!

    someone explain the alt text to me, please

    1. BenRG

      I think it’s a reference to their disastrous date.

    2. Nenja

      it’s a reference to Lonely Island’s “Threw it on the Ground”

      1. RacingTurtle

        I am here in the comments section tonight solely to share that the alt-text made me laugh much harder than it should have. This seems as good a place as any to do it.

        ‘I THREW IT ON THE GROUND!’

        I’d like to expand on the joke, but I’m having trouble. Joe wishes his dad WAS a cell phone?

    3. ischemgeek

      There’s a Lonely Island song called “Threw it on the Ground” which is basically about some hipster going around and throwing shit on the ground to show how “above it all” he is. It doesn’t really have a chorus but it does have a refrain where the first line is him yelling that he through [an item described in the previous verse] on the ground and the third line is him saying, “I’m not part of your system, MAAAN”.

      It came out in 2011, and it quickly became a meme with “Threw it on the GROUND” becoming shorthand for pretty much anything involving an over-reaction that was almost comical. It’s very Millenial style humor – most people not in the millenial cohort I’ve introduced it to just don’t get it (my siblings and their SOs all found it hilarious but the network of parents and inlaws in the extended family usually were like, “Well, that was stupid. Why do you find that funny again?” after it’s over). But it’s kind of self-deprecating humor and pokes fun at millenials in general and our anxiety around adulthood and being part of the system that crashed the economy just as many of us were first stepping into the workforce.

      It’s one of those songs that really needs to be viewed with the music video to get the full joke, so you can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ

      1. ischemgeek

        Also note: If you think the main character is being a total dick – that’s the joke. He thinks he’s righteous, but he’s just being an asshole.

        This one was way funnier than Like a Boss which made fun of corporate overachiever culture but had tones of sexual harassment that really weren’t necessary and made it hard for me to enjoy it as much.

        1. ischemgeek

          Plus Like a Boss makes fun of suicidal ideation in a very punch-down way that I couldn’t really enjoy either.

    4. a/snow mous/e

      Lonely Island is a band that got drafted into SNL

      1. a/snow mous/e

        because they do funny songs like “I Threw it on the Ground,” “I Jizzed in my Pants,” etc.

      2. Roborat

        Andy Samberg and the rest of Lonely Island are a big reason for the success of youtube.

  44. Mr.Morningstar

    ONE PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNCH

  45. Keulan

    Joe appears to be distracted thinking about something. I wonder what it is.

  46. nooB

    How come noone mentioned how JOYCE said “holy cow” which is clearly in contradiction to the second commandment (or the first in the catholic and protestant interpretation)

    1. Stairmasternem

      Because there is a significant difference between saying “holy cow” as a substitute for profanity and going out, buying a gold cow statue, and saying “this is my god now.”

    2. Trolldrool

      For the same reason I see atheists all the time who say “Jesus Christ!” or “Oh, my god!” or “God, that was awesome.” or “God, that was awful.” or “Go to hell.” No sentence that fulfils the purpose of a profanity, however tame or disgusting, require the person using them to support a belief in what the sentence says.

    3. David M Willis

      For the same reason Joyce can say “Thursday” without people asking her if she worships Thor.

  47. BenRG

    Seriously, I’m wondering what’s up with Joe. Normally, he’s not one to let events get to him. I’m wondering if Danny’s been venting to him about the situation with Amber and… well, Danny’s his friend. As shallow as Joe can be, he’s allowed to be worried about his friend and to be brainstorming for some way he can help him.

  48. ScarvesandCelery

    Interesting. Walky and Joe are both completely spacing out in this strip. With Walky, I’d assume it’s due to his continued worry about his academic struggles, but I wonder if hearing about Billie’s latest confrontation with Mary has also contributed to his completely silent, non goofball behaviour.

    And with Joe, there are two possibilities here, already acknowledged in the comments above – one, he’s still stuck in the jock – nerd high school mindset, and doesn’t want to be openly friendly with Joyce in public. Two, and I’m leaning towards this, he’s just had some news, probably about his parents, that have left him uncommunicative (or they’re on his mind after talking to Joyce last night in comic time). I lean towards the second – he wouldn’t have to completely blank Joyce to hide the fact they’d been texting anyway – they usually talk in these classes, even if it’s not usually cordial.

    And, yep, Joyce casually blaspheming and just accepting that Billie punched Mary instead of instantly moralising about it are signs that she is beginning to shake off her fundie mindset. Also, that she probably sympathises with Billie reacting violently to Fundie bigotry, as she had the exact same response to Toedad. Should we start a “fundies get punched in the face” meme?

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      Maybe he found out about his dad and Amber’s mom?

  49. Cerberus

    Comic Analysis:

    Panel 1: “That is entirely in keeping with what I know about her”.

    All the other panels: It’s interesting and sad to see the way toxic masculinity constrains Joe here.

    He’s been forming a friendship with Joyce, with the two of them sharing a lot of closeness and support over the weekend, but Joe runs silent here, because by the rules of being a man he’s been trying to live by, Joe’s not supposed to be friends with girls. In fact, one is supposed to see friendship with girls as a bad thing, as a sign that your “moves” failed. It’s, to use Joe’s PUAish parlance, a “beta” move.

    And the thing is that it shouldn’t be. Friendships aren’t bad as Joe has been learning too late with Danny pulling away more and more emotionally from him and hanging with a girl and having real interactions that are about more than how hot she is and whether or not she’ll bang him is something that he’s going to have to learn to move out of this sexist phase he’s allowed himself to be enveloped in.

    But I can respect his trepidation. After all, beyond this aspect of toxic masculinity, he also has issues surrounding emotional intimacy and the dreaded FEEEEELINGS owing to the situations surrounding his parents’ divorce and cultural ideas of what makes a “sexually desirable man” (in the eyes of other straight men who talk to each other about what women want). And it is not easy shedding the garbage that society dumps on you and tells you to be like.

    And I think that’s the heaviest connecting line between Joe and Joyce. Both have been sold a bunk bag of goods surrounding gender that they are slowly unpacking. And I’m glad they have each other even if Joe doesn’t yet have the strength to acknowledge that publicly.

    1. BenRG

      I think it’s worth remembering that Joe wasn’t ‘sold a bunk bag of goods’, unless you want to argue that he sold them to himself.

      Joe seems to have come to the conclusion that the only way to handle adult relationships without it causing pain is to totally edit out the emotional element to it and base it purely on lust and pleasure. It seems that he came to this conclusion due to the traumatic end of his parents’ relationship. So, in a way, he’s actually acting out a very different trauma – If I never let anyone in, I can’t be hurt again. However, I think that he’s finding it more difficult to apply than he thought.

      The lesson? You should always think about the unintended secondary knock-on effects of your relationship decisions, especially if children are involved.

      1. thejeff

        Sold by his upbringing? He seems to adopted his father’s approach.
        Possibly acting out similar traumas, but it’s just as fair to say he’s following his father’s example as he’s doing it due to their divorce.

      2. Cerberus

        Well, I mean, he was.

        We’ve seen that his father is a very strong believer in a very specific way of being an adult and a man and that he has had a strong influence in shaping who Joe has grown up to more emulate in his college experiences.

        Additionally, society at large is very fond of these particular ways of being a man as we see in all the desperate young people who fall in with MRA/PUA/redpiller ideologies when they are young and sexually insecure and likes to heavily reinforce them and those who are invested in it also tend to reinforce them by bullying those who do not as honorary women or as “gay”.

        So he was fed it as a lot of men of his age are and like Joyce, I think what’s interesting about his character is how he’s going to get out of that worldview into seeing women as full people and that liking casual sex does not mean he has to view women as objects.

    2. Derek

      Joe might be emotionally stunted and rather boorish, but I think saying he’s a redpiller is an insult to his character. He’s better than that.

      1. thejeff

        Maybe. It’s hard to be sure, since he’s very much been a secondary character – we haven’t actually seen his technique outside of Joyce & Sarah, both of whom met it with extreme reactions.
        We’ve seen enough to know he’s got some similar traits despite his official focus on consent. Doesn’t seem to have a problem with alcohol helping to get that consent, for example. Keeps a (publicly?) posted list of ratings of women – his “do list”. His tactics, in the one date with Joyce, did seem to have a lot of the whole “move past or around objections, keep bringing it back to sex” thing going on.
        Hard to say whether he’s actually following one of the PUA playbooks or using their terminology. He may just think he doesn’t need them. He’s definitely thinking in the same terms though.

        1. BBCC

          It’s definitely publicly posted, since he asked Danny if he subscribed to its RSS feed

      2. chris73

        redpiller?

    3. chris73

      Why do you have such a negative hate on for Joe, we don’t know why Joe is acting the way he is but your immediate reaction is surprise, surprise toxic masculinity

      He might be using a PUA technic, he might be thinking about his parents divorce, he might be thinking about the latest transformers toy but you immediately assume the worse when, in reality, he may just be trying to process something

      When I’m in that situation (I’m assuming he’s processing something) I tend to zone out and ignore people as well and its not because of “toxic masculinity” its because I tend to focus on one thing and everything else falls by the way side

      As someone that identifies somewhat with Joe more then others I’m getting a bit tired of the belief that whatever Joe is doing is always wrong eg he’s ignoring Joyce it must be because he’s living by some self imposed rules of being a dude but we’ve seen here:

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/manhood/

      that he doesn’t buy into that at all

      Its not as bad as what was heaped on Danny (another character I have some empathy for) but when you compare his actions to others like Ruth he’s certainly nowhere near as close in terms of being a “bad” person yet Joes actions are always seen in a bad light

      Sal, Joyce, Becky, Billie, Ruth all get “passes” for their behaviour because of their upbringing and yet we’ve seen glimpses of how Joe was raised, his male role model:

      http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/persistent/

      But is Joe given the same allowances to grow and mature like the other characters on here?

      Not to the same degree at so maybe lets just see how this storyline plays out before we judge him (again) for failing to live up to everyone else’s expectations of what he should be

      PS I am sorry if this post upsets you because I do enjoy reading your posts

      1. Fart Captor

        Are you serious? You think Joe’s getting criticized too harshly and you actually compare it to Becky, of all people?

        Joe’s getting legit criticism for gross behavior and things he’s actually done. It’s even coupled with (mostly sympathetic) theories about how he got that way, and even hopes that he’ll grow as a person and get past those flaws.

        IN CONTRAST:

        Becky used to constantly take flack for events beyond her control, and not being sufficiently accommodating to other people’s homophobia. Like when she said hello to Hank and asked for a ride back to La Porte, but that was somehow “ruining the sanctity of the father-daughter moment”, and then she got preemptively blamed for how Hank’s hypothetical homophobic reaction might have impacted JOYCE.

        So I was really happily shocked yesterday when I realized that Becky was doing something bad and it was actually what she was being criticized for.

        Joyce got plenty of hate for her homophobia and slut-shaming, until she changed her behavior. It even kept up for a while after she’d changed, until it was clear it would actually stick. Hell, in the very comment you’re replying to, Cerberus accused Joyce exactly the same stuff she accused Joe of. And like Joe, however nice she was on the inside from the beginning, acting like a much crappier person negated much of that.

        Ruth gets sympathy good fucking reason, but she’d get a lot less if she were still used threats and violence as much as she did when the semester began. She nevertheless gets plenty of criticism about her being a horrible RA, even from people expressing hopes that she’ll get the help she needs.

        Billie is in a similar boat, but she still gets criticized her plenty for every angry outburst. I wish they’d quit with the “GAWD, why don’t you just stop being so depressed and handle your rage appropriately?”, but the fact remains that however understandable her anger may be, she often lashes out at people who don’t deserve it (and also Mary), and she gets called out for it.

        Sal also gets called out for every damn thing she says or does, including defending herself and others from violence. The merits of her advice to Joyce about reporting Ryan gets hotly debated back and forth every damn time it comes up, even four years later. I guess her free pass must have gotten lost in the mail.

        If other people’s defense of these characters seems unfairly strong to you compared to those countering criticisms of Joe, it’s most likely because Joe doesn’t get unfairly shat upon or victim-blamed at every friggin’ opportunity. He doesn’t get blamed for things completely beyond his control. Joe just gets called out on actual, certified bullshit. The fact that there is in fact a unfortunate backstory to why he acts this way doesn’t negate the fact that he acts this way.

        Or to be more specific, this way, where his refusal to care about anything that doesn’t arouse him stops him from showing even the most basic level of respect for Leslie or just human beings in general:
        http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/sweetlesbianfacts/

        He has potential to become a much better person, but until he starts acting like a much better person, he is not immune to criticism.

        1. BBCC

          Also, re Sal – Jesus Christ, the racism call out. The comments during that nonsense were frigging toxic. Then there’s the TERFs running around whenever Carla shows up and is insufficiently submissive when people are transphobic fucks. Also, while Amber gets plenty of deserved criticism for doing bad things, a lot of it is full of ableism and earlier on some of it was just for having panic attacks. Or how crabby some of the comments got whenever Dorothy asserted her ambition and treated every single good deed as some amazing turning point.

        2. chris73

          What I’m saying is that what Joe gets called out for wouldn’t get a mention from other characters even though the reasons are all quite similar (upbringing)

          I’m not saying that those characters don’t have legit reasons for acting the way they do, in a lot of cases they do

        3. Fart Captor

          What your saying is that irrational, unreasonable criticisms of characters other than Joe don’t count because you don’t care about those.

          Nobody ever makes that kind of knee-jerk critique of annnnybody else, ever.

          No wait, I mean every character, all the time, even Lucy, in one of two strips she appears in, being criticized for invading Malaya’s personal bubble within the tiny room they both live in (not to pick on the commenter in question)

        4. chris73

          Let me try to explain with an example, a while back I made a comment about Beckys new hair style and it hurt people, I was genuinely surprised by it because I thought it was a just throwaway line but I had hurt people by making an unthinking comment so I apologized for it

          I now understand why that comment hurt because I can recognize some, not all but some, of Joes behaviours in myself and it reminds me of a time when my actions were looked down on in a negative manner no matter what I did or didn’t do, it was unfair then and this is reminding me of that time

          In the latest strip it looks like Joe is thinking something reasonable important (he may not be but that’s what it looks like to me) and yet there are comments on here that have taken it to be a symptom of toxic masculinity and as a negative

          He’s deep in thought and distracted by something and yet that’s perceived as being something negative

          I really don’t get it

        5. Fart Captor

          I’d also read it as quiet introspection at first, until I noticed him deliberately looking away from Joyce to avoid eye contact in the last panel.

          That he’s lost in thought still seems a reasonable interpretation, but I think Cerberus is probably right about him being too uncomfortable to actually acknowledge the change in the dynamic between him and Joyce because now she knows he has feelings and can be sensitive, and talking to her now, in public, might expose that for all to see.

          And while I can’t speak for Cerberus, I read her analysis as very sympathetic towards Joe because how he thinks he need to lock away all of his feelings. If you’re just naturally reserved and stoic, there’s nothing wrong with that, but there is if you act that way because you think have to. Joe has made it very clear that feelings are something shameful, to be denied and repressed. Toxic masculinity, or the effects of his parent’s bitter divorce each seem like plausible factors in why Joe thinks that.

          And as Cerberus pointed out to me not long ago, toxic masculinity has more than one way it can manifest. Joe and Walky have each absorbed different pieces of it, but it’s still there in both of them, and other issues on top of that, because neither is a simple, one-dimensional character.

        6. chris73

          The problem is though that Joes looking away because hes uncomfortable with emotions then it must be TM, Walky acts like child: its good ol’ TM again, Danny feels he has to be whatever his current girlfriend wants him to be, well that’s TM again

          But it could be that Joe really likes sex and has had a poor role model in his father, it could also be that Walky has been spoiled by his parents his entire life and Danny could be a result of being bullied by his parents

          It could be toxic masculinity but it could also be something else entirely

        7. Fart Captor

          There can also – as I said – be multiple things that contribute to it, and not just Toxic Masculinity™. It’s sufficiently widespread and pervasive that it’s a safe bet it’s part of it, and like unconscious bias, being aware of it is necessary to fix it.

        8. Cerberus

          I do not bring up toxic masculinity in this case to condemn Joe, but to sympathize with him. Him ignoring Joyce? Pfft, it’s some momentarily hurt feelings for Joyce, but it’s not really something I’d be inclined to rake him over the coals with.

          But we’ve seen Joe and his interactions, the way he views women, how terrified he is of a deeper friendship connection with women.

          And well, that gets at a really fascinating aspect to toxic masculinity, how it can constrain the person under pressure to follow one of its precepts, how it can make it so much harder to allow themselves a full life.

          I mean, sure, I’m a loudmouthed feminist chick, but I’m also trans. I grew up assuming I was a boy and having others assume I was a boy and so got a lot of toxic masculinity messaging that I had to excise and avoid. That it was slightly easier for me because I wasn’t invested in being seen as a man is besides the point. I know from experience how universal handling those messages is as part of coming into age.

          As for his PUA-esque behavior… well, yeah, he’s done that shit and despite the assurances of Willis, I don’t trust his record on consent, because what we’ve seen in comic are some absolutely abysmal understandings of consent and a tendency to view consent as a matter of working around a potential no so she never says it rather than a commitment to respecting boundaries both stated and unstated.

          And that’s a really big deal to me. I’m a survivor of rape. Everyone I have ever dated is a survivor of rape. Most of my friends are survivors of rape. I’ve worked providing sexual assault survivor training and resources and have mentored more students who are dealing with the aftermath of sexual assault than I really want to think about.

          It’s why I am very down on Becky in her current plotline with Dina as she’s backsliding badly on consent and I don’t like that. So yeah, I hold that against Joe, because I’ve seen his red flag shit before and I’ve seen how badly that path leads to a Ryan.

          Like, for instance, this last tuesday, at my school, one of my trans students was raped by another student. This occurred on campus by a student I had been warning administration about for months owing to his pattern of bad boundary behavior and dismissive reductive views towards women.

          I was especially concerned about this student and my trans kid because well, my trans kid just came out as trans to the student body and well… this guy has creeped over him before and during the time that the two of them dated, he was really bad at boundaries and had abuse red flags out the ying yang. And I worried that he’d come rumbling up to my trans kid, because well, my trans kid is currently using he and the rapist kid had already expressed many very heterosexist ideas about men and women and what makes one a man as well as homophobic comments.

          And it’s not uncommon for assholes like him to rape trans men who come out as a means of trying to “correct” them “back” so they can try and justify their previous attraction as not gay.

          Do I think that Joe is like that kid?

          Hell no. But I’m also not going to overlook red flags about consent and I’m going to feel quite a bit shirty about someone basically making a comment about how I read too much toxicity into “normal dude stuff”, because I caught and warned about the exact thing that happened on Tuesday months ago because I have a wealth of terrible life experiences that give me a keen radar for certain types of shit. And my admin instead ignored that, because I’m the “crazy feminist” who “sees too much into stuff” and they let my trans kid get raped on campus because of it.

          So yeah. Oh yeah, and also I tend to be hyper-aware of toxic masculinity behaviors because I’m a trans woman and people have literally tried to kill me because of their ideas of what “being a man” means.

        9. chris73

          Yes I am serious, Becky has also shown some pretty unpleasant behaviour towards Dorothy but that gets okey because of how she was brought up and that’s understandable but its still pretty bad

          Joyce still has quite a lot of anger issues but again that’s understandable because of her upbringing

          Ruth harassed Billie verbally, physically and sexually she also stalked her, broke into her room and stole her clothing but its ok because Billie now likes it, now substitute Joe for Ruth and see how the comments on that would be

          “Joe just gets called out on actual, certified bullshit” most of what is said about Joe is conjecture, a single frame of reference is used to decide exactly what Joe is up to

          Look at the date with Joyce, reading some of the comments on here you’d think Joe was about to ply her insensible with alcohol so he could have his wicked way

          Yes he wanted to have sex with her, as did I when I went out on dates, I found them attractive and I wanted to have sex with them and I wouldn’t mind betting that was their viewpoint as well but apparently because Joe wants to have sex and is upfront about hes one step away from being a date rapist

          Yeah absolutely when you act like a dick then get called out on it BUT what I’m saying is that Joe gets called out on stuff other characters wouldn’t be and that that others actions are mitigated by their upbringings (and legitimately so) but Joe doesn’t get the same treatment

          People like to say Joe only accepts No when its used forcefully against him but from what I see the women he talks to start off with forcefully no so it doesn’t seem as if he asks, the lady says no and then he continues

          But the assumption round here is he bugs women until they have to get angry for him to back off

          I think Joe has some very good points about him and I’d like to see him grow more and have more comic time but not if, everytime he appears, his actions are looked down on negatively

        10. Fart Captor

          The Becky’s “feud” with Dorothy manifested was basically Becky saying “Dotty, we have a bitter rivalry” and one mean comment about her being a boney poindexter. Both of which are things Dorothy herself shrugged off, because explicitly mentioning the upheaval Becky was dealing with. Not to mention the fact that she stopped doing that.

          Joyce does not have fucking anger issues. She has completely valid reasons to be mad as hell, because her mother and older brother are bigots who care more about hating Becky for being a lesbian than actually loving and supporting other members of their family, and the religious community she’d been raised in had wanted her to be just as awful as Ross, and would have applauded him, if only his kidnapping had been more successful. And she’s managed to reign that shit in, both in holding back and checking in with Becky before making a scene on her behalf, and before that when she offered the olive branch to Joe via text, when he had been pissing her off earlier in that same class period. But sure, “she has an anger problem”.

          Your criticism of Ruth regarding her violence and the extremely fucked up way her relationship with Billie started is not something that she’s given a pass on. That shit comes up frequently.

          You are really making my point for me here. And I’m not even saying Joe doesn’t have good qualities here. I wouldn’t be so optimistic about his personal growth if I didn’t already see some good points for him to build on.

          And we have twice seen Joe refuse to accept a woman wasn’t interested until repeatedly told to fuck off. That’s only one fewer times than Becky’s “rivalry” with Dotty came up, but suddenly to complain about Joe we need a statistically valid sample size?

          Do you not see that the double standard being applied was inside you all along?

        11. chris73

          Yes Becky is going through upheavel and its understandable BUT it still doesn’t make the behaviour right

          Yes Joyce has some valid reasons to be angry and there have been times when that anger has saved her BUT there are instances when her default seems to be anger or are you going to excuse her assault of Joe?

          But here are some examples of Joyces anger some of which covers the time before the s**t started happening so theres anger in Joyce http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/serious/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/leisure/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/leisure/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/harness/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/stamina/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/looking-2/
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/bestpossiblething/

          As for Ruth there seems to be a helluva lot of people who, still, think Ruth and Billie should be together in spite of everything

          Have we seen Joe do that or is that what people decided happened, serious question because when a strip is put people have different interpretations of what that strip means

        12. Fart Captor

          So, you want us to acknowledge Joe can change and grow, but you keep dredging up behaviors that other characters have already grown out of?

          You seem to want us to forgive Joe’s failings because he has problems and bad things have happened in his life, and yet you refuse to forgive Becky for acting badly in the very recent wake of misfortune worse than anything Joe has experienced ever, or Joyce for bad behavior based on the awful fundie beliefs systematically drilled into her for 18 years. But no, ONLY JOE is never forgiven anything.

          And what the fuck do people wanting Billie and Ruth to be together have to do with anything? So some people are seeing the good aspects of their problematic relationship and they want it to work somehow. That doesn’t negate all the people who think that’s a horrible idea. Or the people who criticize them both for various reasons, valid and not so valid.

          Changing and growing out of bad behavior based on misguided beliefs like Joyce did is precisely what I hope Joe will do. And if he does, I will actually acknowledge and celebrate it, rather than constantly whinging about his old behavior as if it was still an issue.

        13. thejeff

          And this kind of argument is exactly why I want to see how Joe reacts to someone he’s hitting on who falls between the extremes of grabbing him and pulling him into bed (Roz & Penny) or yelling and hitting (Sarah & Joyce). What’s his actual Game like?
          We don’t know. We can extrapolate from what we’ve seen and from a few comments he’s made and I agree they paint a pretty damn sleazy picture, but we don’t actually know.
          Willis could intend him to be harmless and really mean it about consent. That’s not how he reads to me, but I could be wrong. It’s something that was never really confronted even as Joe matured in the Walkyverse. This is a much more nuanced and mature strip and I don’t think he’ll be allowed to slide here, but I’d be happier if we saw more on Joe.

    4. Bluewind

      I’m not sure that’s what that is here. I know we will probably find out in the next strip, but Joe looks more zoned out and distracted than anything. He might be trying to process the things he opened up about over the weekend, he might still be feeling emotionally vulnerable and needs to be alone, he might know someone who deals with depression and the attempted suicide and hospitalization of someone in the building might have brought back bad memories, someone he cares about might be doing bad or died, he could have run into someone online or in person who has left him distracted for one reason or another, he might be starting to care for

      1. chris73

        I know I’m being a bit over sensitive here but It really gets me to me that Joe is seemingly held to higher set of standards then others

        We know that basically he’s a product of his upbringing, like others, yet doesn’t seem to get the same slack as others do in regards to “growing up” and it almost seems as the default setting for any of Joes actions is guilty until proven innocent

        1. Cerberus

          Bullshit he is.

          Fuck, no man in the entire cast is even held to half the standards of any of the women cast members.

          Like, for fucks sake, Joe openly admits he uses alcohol to “lubricate” threesomes. Because consent is something to “lubricate” around. And he spent the entire date with Joyce actively trying to undermine her stated boundaries for the evening in a way that she’d have no alternative.

          That’s rapist behavior. And even with that shit we all give Joe free passes and assume he’s the salt of the earth and really trying. Like, fuck. I’m done.

      2. Bluewind

        Sorry! Bumped reply before I was finished…

        , he might be starting to care for Joyce (in a romantic or platonic way) which scares him as he keeps everyone at arm’s length, or something else could be going on that I haven’t considered. We can’t automatically assume that he is trying to be macho in the context we are given. And if he spouts off a joke and makes light of this moment? It still doesn’t change that it existed. Willis is a great storyteller in it for the long game and even if this moment is blown off for now, it will come back to the surface eventually.

        1. chris73

          Agreed

    5. Mav

      I think the masculinity stuff is very valid, but being emotionally stunted is also a side effect of having a traumatic situation thrust upon you, sometimes for several years. It can be a survival mechanism you develop to protect yourself. Not everyone who comes from backgrounds like that are going to be emotional and super empathetic and open. It’s important to remember that even in the context of toxic masculinity, the point of emotionally repressed is to be “strong”, i.e. you never have to risk being hurt/dealing with other people’s crap. You shut down or lash out so no one else can lash out at you. Devoid of all other emotions, pride is the only one you have left. It takes great courage to tap into the other ones.

      I think we compare Joe a lot to side characters who are in very extreme situations, but messy divorces can also be traumatic for the children involved – especially if it involves parents screaming, fighting, having other adults over/cheating in front of the kids, airing age inappropriate dirty laundry to and in front of their children. Some children watch their parents hate each other and treat each other with utter contempt until they finally separate. That stuff can really fuck you up, no matter what gender.

      I think maybe a lot of people here have had the hyper masculine culture thrust upon them either as a lifestyle or being a tool in that lifestyle – I think he in a lot of ways represents what is so problematic about that culture. I also think that there is this idea that if you come from a dominant and privilege group, you’re definitely dealt better cards by society, which is true, but the reality is that certain situations aren’t great for anyone’s psyche. Like, I wouldn’t tell Becky that even though her dad tried to kill her for being gay her life is better than mine because she’s white and I’m black. If you take that thinking to a personalized extreme, it stops making sense because you don’t know everyone’s life personally. If you think of it more in a cultural/institutional context, it makes more sense.

      I could be completely wrong about Joe, but we still don’t know his backstory yet. We know that he tries to use one aspect of his personality to construct and hide his true self. I wonder if the divorce was a particularly bad one, and hearing Joyce made him think about it. Maybe we’ll find out that Joe might not even like his dad that much. Maybe he, like many boys, emulate their fathers because there is no other socially acceptable way to feel close to them. Also, what Joyce told him is a lot to process, to be totally honest.

  50. JohnnyO

    Faaaace

  51. Lan

    What the hell is Joe thinking about? Willis please tell me you’re not reusing the Joe’s Mom thing from Roomies again.

    1. Mr.Morningstar

      He’s just becoming an anime protagonist

  52. Deanatay

    Before:
    “GAH! Joe is creeping on me! Why is he SO ANNOYING!!”

    Now:
    “GAH! Joe is ignoring me! Why is he SO ANNOYING!!”

    So tsundere, Joyce.

    1. Fart Captor

      Not really. It’s Joe’s attitude that changed here, which is why Joyce is willing to drop her grudge.

      Her continued skepticism has a pretty reasonable basis in his past actions.

      1. Mr.Morningstar

        plus they were actually texting each other when joyce and becky went home, and seemed reasonably friendly (still waiting on an explanation on how that started happening)

  53. Elsendor

    BEST. HOVERTEXT. EVER.

    1. a/snow mous/e

      ikr
      “this is the tale of Captain Jack Sparrow!” “wait what”

      1. Godfather

        “Okay, then, I’m a legal aide! Erin Brockovitch is my name!”

  54. a/snow mous/e

    MAAYYUUNN

  55. hof1991

    I think Joe has realized the Joyce has a better dad and role model than he does and that kinda breaks his world.

  56. Mr.Morningstar

    Sooo

    do they have any other classes besides gender studies and maths?

    i dont think any time we’ve seen them in class it was any other class

    1. Slartibeast Button, BIA

      Logic, Pre-law, Physics, and Computer Science per the Wikia: http://walkypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dumbing_of_Age_Class_Schedule

      But those two predominate, yeah. Like how most schools in anime only have two teachers, Math and Japanese Literature.

    2. Bagge

      Coas 122. Fuck everything and the horse it came in on. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/kitchen/

      (They also have IT studies which is trivially easy for Danny and Amber)

    3. BBCC

      Those are the classes we see the most, for sure.

  57. JCFG

    I just read 6 years worth of comic strips in 4 days. DoA is awesome.

  58. Mortartarsaus

    So, NOBODY made a One Punch Man joke? Can’t tell if I’m disappointed or Proud of you lot.

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