but wait. do they really want to get closer to god?
(we had a local radio staition i the early oughts that was licensed for christian rock, freq107, they took that to mean any rock/ metal /alternative music that had the god in it, including the NIN entire discigraphy!, best station the city had till they got cracked down on and had to stick to music that actually claimed to be christian rock, they were off the air a year later)
If there’s one thing literature has taught me, it’s not just the point but the middle as well, sometimes even the ring. And not just the dexter but the sinister as well.
That would either be either “Dinah-Moe-Humm”, “Wind Up Working In A Gas Station” or the never released “Swallow My Pride”…in this context, I am presuming that you are implying the 1st one…
The foreshadowing…
Joyce was always going to fuck the gay poindexter. The only question was which gay poindexter.
Also, @Birion: I usually go with ring and middle, actually. The pointer is good for precision and speed, but lacks the power for the really good stuff.
Yes, it’s so cute. She just filled with pure happiness to be lustful and to inspire lust. It’s great revenge on her horrible mother and the fundie upbringing, “living well.”
I don’t know why y’all are surprised. It’s a comic.
When the comic builds up to consequences, the funniest option is to yank them away – only to drop them when we least expect it.
It happened with Joe too. Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth only for Joe to completely defuse the situation, his calm reaction being the joke (an unexpected result contrary to expectation). Willis built up the expectation to make the reversal land harder. It’s a basic writing technique.
Now he’s doing it again. I don’t think he’ll repeat the joke, but since he’s using the same sort of buildup, I’m guessing he’s going for another ironic contrast as the payoff. I can think of a few Becky reactions that would qualify, so I guess we’ll see.
Except that only works when it’s unexpected. When you telegraph yanking away the consequences and do it repeatedly, it falls flat. Which is a problem a lot of us have with this arc.
That said, I do fully expect the buildup around them being scared to tell Becky means she won’t react badly.
ESM
If Becky is totally cool with it after all this build-up it will be *amazing*, though.
thejeff
I guess. Isn’t it kind of the expected result now though?
When it comes down it to, the whole situation only really had five potential consequences of this whole event:
1) Joe gets hurt – Resolved in an expected way. Joe is fine with the situation. Overall, handled well (if only because Joe has grown a lot).
2) Walky gets hurt – Resolved through punchline. Walky walks down the path of self-destruction. Overall, handled very badly (seriously Dorothy…).
3) Joyce’s family – On hold, but referred to repeatedly. Foreboding newspaper situation threatens future problems.
4) Friend’s opinions – Several catered to. Sal doesn’t care. Jennifer has opinions. Presumedly more to come.
5) Becky’s feelings – Delayed and delayed. Possibly setting us up for a punchline though I’d argue that since the Walky part of it had this kind of setup, revealing what’s happening to Becky may actually be bad.
So 4/5 were catered to one way or another, with the last one clearly being intentionally delayed. I’m sure there’s other issues that cropped up (such as Amazi-Girl’s injuries and the fears those who protested are feeling, but i’d argue these are tangent to the relationship in question here).
What are people actually expecting here in terms of consequences? A fight? Fists flying? Death? Lot of shoutiness? Someone running away in tears? Declarations of revenge? One of the other billions of cliches you get in shittier writing/daytime television?
Consequences are happening. Just turns out things ain’t simple and instantaneous. They’ve been publicly outed. The whole thing is fueling Walky’s self-destruction while he gets treated like a joke. You can be damn sure Joyce’s mum is going to have opinions on this. Dorothy is doing all of this while she knows Amber is recuperating and that certainly fuels her self-worth issues. And probably some other stuff.
I get that people don’t like how these two got together, but please don’t insist that there haven’t been consequences just because they aren’t the consequences you wanted.
I think Joyce’s family is gonna be a big deal, but I don’t think it counts as a consequence in this situation. Joyce’s mom would flip out if she saw DoJo kissing in any context. The choices that DoJo made, of getting together the way they did at the time they did with the relationships they had, is irrelevant. The only way Joyce could prevent her mom from crashing out would be to 1. never publicly post anything about her non-straight relationships, or 2. never come out of the closet at all.
Proxiehunter
Getting together the way they did, the time they did, is precicely why there is a picture of them on the front page of their college news paper meaning they have no control over when and how this news comes to te attention of anyone in their family.
Fuzzy
I dunno, can you imagine a when and how that results in Mrs. Brown being normal about it? It’s gonna happen sooner because it was at the protest, but it would’ve happened some day, and it would be just as terrible then.
Random832
I mean the other possibility was that they never see each other again. Once Joyce isn’t at the university anymore Carol doesn’t know where she lives.
What were we expecting? There’s no need to be overly dramatic about it. No death. No beatings. No dramatic declarations of revenge.
One of the boys involved to be upset about being cheated on? Kind of like Sarah was, but on their own behalf and thus not quickly defused by Joe.
Sharizard
Pretty sure Walky’s upset right now. It’s just his coping mechanism is broken.
Yes, still very cute. They are just cartoon freshmen who dated boys for a few days. Some people are overreacting so bizarrely, as if they were real people breaking up 20 year marriages with kids and houses.
JD
i don’t think it is particularly accurate or charitable to assume that cheating on their boyfriends to begin with has to be the reason for someone to be unnerved, uncomfortable, or worried by their displays of affection given the circumstances. this level of dismissiveness towards expressing discomfort towards casual inconsiderate or unkind behavior in a narrative is weird, actually. yes, some people have been entirely too bigoted regarding this storyline. but that does not appear to be the case here.
YourCousinJay
I understand this is a comic n all but despite it’s occassional fantastical elements to dismiss them as “just cartoon freshmen” feels reductive as hell with the story that’s been told with them up to this point.
Like them cheating isn’t some final like punchline and people are incredibly invested in these characters collective story so ofcourse people are going to care when two of the leading characters cheat on the two characters that didn’t even believe they were capible of love until they had met them, only for the narritive tension to suddenly screech to a halt as our two core leads spend their morning just casually wandering around after only trying to get ahead of the news of them very publicly cheating once, before then seemingly giving up instead of just talking to their friends in any meaningful, and in Joyce’s case not even considering how this could affect their friends at all.
Skychrono
Well said.
Needfuldoer
So why should we get invested in this relationship?
thejeff
I’m gonna give it 6 months of their time before I take it seriously.
What is there to clear up exactly? The way I read it, regardless of any potential poly development Joe pitched, it was pretty clear Joyce chose Dorothy. They broke up. Joe even admitted he doesn’t think he can compete with Dorothy and just wants a fraction of Joyce’s love and attention. Any potential poly conversation as stated should be for later, but Joyce doesn’t even know if she wants that. I think the problem is that the breakup kind of ended to cleanly so it feels ambiguous but Joe’s expression in the final panel of that strip isn’t the face of a man confident he still has a girlfriend and Joyce is very clearly operating under no assumption she’s still with Joe.
Feel bad for Joe. I do, but Joyce and Dorothy can probably be cute and fuck as free and clear as two bi chicks can when one is deathly afraid of her gay roommate finding out. Turns out that’s not much.
Joyce’s nervous “yeah” when Dorothy referred to Joe as her ex implies Joyce is very much of the opinion she didn’t break up with him yet. Don’t deny the implication is that’s probably the route she’s heading down but she didn’t actually do it (more importantly doesn’t think she did).
Which could mean anything from “Am I still with him?” to “Saying ex-boyfriend feels weird cause it just happened.” or literally anything else. Not saying Joyce won’t consider Joe’s proposal, it’s even very likely she still has feelings for him and would like to date him and Dorothy, but she’s broke up with him. That’s what happened. She said it when they left the paper.
I kinda just don’t like in this story where we’re already being exceptionally critical of the circumstances around these two dating we’re also finding reasons to undercut the developments when they actually make them.
I only think it’s very messed up that Joe’s created a situation where he’s likely clinging to hope while Joyce wants to fuck her gf without giving him a second thought. He’s maybe too good for her in this scenario.
Strawb
That’s a valid interpretation. I cant see the part where she says they broke up. She says “we informed our boys” which I read as purposely dodging what actually happened.
I’d argue that we still don’t know if Joyce considers them broken up (or more accurately there’s two opposite interpretations).
I agree that current story keeps undercutting their development. I would prefer some clarification.
Whirlakitty
I would argue that based on everything she’s said and done, Joyce very much does NOT consider herself and Joe broken up.
Freezer
I subscribe to this take.
Odo
Joe is 100% too good for her.
His whole issue was: “My father is a cheating horndog so I will be too and I will never deserve a serious relationship”
First he dealt with this by pursuing casual hookups exclusively and by adopting an objectifying misogynistic attitude. The misogyny was a problem, but it was addressed in the comic. He was condemned, faced consequences, repented, and chose to act differently.
He still thinks poorly of himself though, which explains why he doesn’t seem to think at all about himself. Joyce cheats on him and he goes “I just want you to have what you want”.
At some point I hope he realizes that he is a good person and doesn’t need to keep dragging himself for his Father’s actions.
Finep
He said he wanted to keep his place in Joyce’s heart, and I think he meant he would like his relationship with Joyce to stay as much as possible the same.
So he already thinks of himself, just not enough (maybe he should have followed when Joyce left). I also think he sincerely isn’t jealous, or thought about it and saw/thought it was a bit silly.
Or at least it would be coherent. He did look sad, but it would be logical too if it was out of fear…
Whirlakitty
What consequences? He treated women like crap, and managed to get caught in a public way. He had his little list go viral, leading a lot of women to feel really bad and probably suffer all sorts of bullying and abuse. He had what appeared to be extremely eager and very consensual sex with Penny, and then got her fired and thrown out for it. And the consequences for him were…that he felt a lot of self pity? And decided to be a “better guy” because…he’s really hot for Joyce. But to Dorothy he’s condescending and mean and either A) rubbing it in her face that he’s with Joyce and she’s not or B) actively trying to push her to be interested in Joyce. And he’s a real condescending ass to Rachel for her being so ridiculous as to not realize that like, a week ago, in private he started to be a better person. I still consider Joe an utter piece of crap. To change my opinion, I’d have to see him being a better person even when its not based on getting the date he wants.
Amara
It’s interesting how we can walk away with such different takes on Joe and Rachel’s gym convo. He’s being considerate at first because he knows his list was awful and fucked up, so lots of people dislike him, so he avoids stimulating their ire. Rachel continues to deny change is possible, (which is kinda the other shoe style of commentary to booster’s recurring line about revealing who we’ve actually always been underneath).
Also, it’s the second semester. All of the list shit was before the winter vacation. It’s been a little bit longer than just a few days. I think his change actually started happening before the winter vacation but it really was showing even from his very first appearances this semester.
In what world is cutting the conversation short and telling Joe “we’ll talk later” a clean breakup? In my book, there’s no official status on the two of them yet. And, as Strawb pointed out, Joyce is aware of that.
My guess is she’s pushing those thoughts aside and she’ll break down once she and Dorothy actually attempt to have sex.
Sirksome
The part where she said we have to break up because “I kissed Dorothy and plan on doing it again.” Or the part where she said. “I can’t date two people cause I’m not a hussy.” Just because Joe wants to still date Joyce and Joyce will talk to him doesn’t mean she didn’t say those things. That’s how agency works.
I don’t know how much more clear you can get here. Undercutting it with a joke and Joe’s general “You don’t have to break up with me.” argument don’t take away pretty solid decisions Joyce made. This feels like the Lucy situation where just because the last words a couple says during a break up aren’t “I officially declare we are broken up.” it means it didn’t happen, when the truth is communication is just messy sometimes.
eh, whatever
The part where she said we have to break up because “I kissed Dorothy and plan on doing it again.”
That just means the possibility of polyamory hadn’t crossed her mind yet.
Or the part where she said. “I can’t date two people cause I’m not a hussy.”
Two panels later she says she is a hussy. I’m a bit lost on how you managed to overlook the final panel, the punchline, or a strip you’re linking to.
communication is just messy sometimes
Reality can be messy, too. Messy communication can cover up cases when reality is clear, but it can also simply reflect messy reality.
Sirksome
I didn’t overlook the punchline. I directly mentioned it. “Undercutting with a joke.” But even taking it as literal in that moment Joyce realizing she is in fact a hussy doesn’t instantly invalidate her statement that she can’t date both of them. But I give up here. If people directly saying they broke up doesn’t constitute a break up I guess Joyce is still cheating. Dorothy is too, she never technically completely broke up with Walky. I can accept the status quo that there will be general baseline of filthy cheater status for the entirety of Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship. Good for them.
thejeff
I’d say that whether or not they’re actually broken up, Joyce is no longer cheating on Joe. She’s made it clear that whatever happens she’s going to be with Dorothy and Joe’s accepted that. The options are poly with the three of them or just Dorothy and Joyce. Either way, cheating on Joe isn’t a possibility.
If she is actually considering the poly option, she really needs to talk to Dorothy about it rather than leaving Dorothy under the impression she’s made a clean break.
Bedovian
You say “undercutting it with a joke” but that line is only a joke for the audience. Joyce doesn’t know she’s in a comic where her dialogue can be seen as funny. There’s no reason to believe she wasn’t serious there.
Clif
Some of us make jokes for the audience, whether the audience is really there or not.
Or maybe it’s an internal audience. Anyway, people are complicated.
Sirksome
Yes. You are correct. Joyce realizing she was in fact a hussy means her relationship with Joe is still in play and she’s eager to cheat on him with Dorothy in hopes of a poly route. Every interaction so far between them has been shameless hussy behavior.
John Campbell
It is impossible for Joyce to cheat on Joe with Dorothy because he has explicitly endorsed her being with Dorothy. It isn’t cheating if it isn’t against the rules.
Shogeton
To me that is ‘Hey, our current relation is broken up. I’m with Dorothy.’ Joe offers a poly relation, and Joyce says she will consider it. But that doesn’t mean that Joyce is being unfaithful here. Until such a time that she and Dorothy agree to go Poly, Joyce is with Doroty and not with Joyce.
It’d be considerate to Joe not to leave him hanging too long, but there is nothing ‘wrong’ to me, even in a ‘horny college Freshmen’ sense about Joyce and Dorothy to fully act like girlfriends with everything involved in it.
Shogeton
Joyce is with Dorothy and not with Joe that is of course.
yes, exactly my feelings. i WANT them to be cute, but Joyce is withholding information, which means Dorothy isn’t fully consenting to what she’s in.
Joyce didn’t *really definitely* break up with Joe (she just baaaasically left him on read in a reallife conversation), but Dorothy thinks she did, that the Joe chapter is closed. That’s not informed consent.
Joyce needs to either *definitely* end things with Joe (including refusing his poly offer), or come clean to Dorothy that she’s considering it.
I think as long as she doesn’t do anything with Joe before informing Dorothy of the situation, she’s not doing anything wrong at this point. It’s more or less fine for her to do whatever with Dorothy now, and then, at whatever point afterwards, either tell Joe ‘no’ without necessarily ever informing Dorothy it was a possibility (or how close she was to considering a yes), or bring up the possibility with Dorothy of getting back together under some poly arrangement. I don’t think merely the fact that the offer is open or even that Joyce is considering it is the kind of thing that must be disclosed or somehow impairs informed consent. It’s mildly shitty, but not even cheating levels of shitty let alone consent issues level of shitty.
The only thing I don’t like in that context is how insistent she was on closing off the possibility of Dorothy doing the same with Walky. “I win you lose” isn’t very poly of you, Joyce.
Random832
(Would either Walky or Dorothy go for it? Probably not. But that’s none of Joyce’s business, at least not in the scenario where she and Dorothy aren’t in a monogamous relationship)
Well, almost. Maybe it would be more like “Pounded in the Caboodle by the Rejection of Fundamentalist Veneration of Chastity”. It would involve Joyce wearing a size six strap-on, I suspect.
407 thoughts on “But if it was”
NGPZ
>:3
*plays “Closer” by Nine Inch Nails on hacked muzak*
Cholma
Bloodhound Gang’s “The Bad Touch” swells in the background.
Hexx
You and me baby ain’t nothin but mammals, so let’s do it like they do on the Discovery Channel…
Steamweed
An excellent music choice on this day.
Embe13
aahhhh she wants to feel dorothy from the inside!
but wait. do they really want to get closer to god?
(we had a local radio staition i the early oughts that was licensed for christian rock, freq107, they took that to mean any rock/ metal /alternative music that had the god in it, including the NIN entire discigraphy!, best station the city had till they got cracked down on and had to stick to music that actually claimed to be christian rock, they were off the air a year later)
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I’m imagining a reworked version of “I’m gonna wash that man right outta my hair”…
QueenofSodor
YOU FUCK THAT POINDEXTER JOYCE, YOU FUCK THAT POINDEXTER GOOD AND HARD
Birion
If there’s one thing literature has taught me, it’s not just the point but the middle as well, sometimes even the ring. And not just the dexter but the sinister as well.
Even the thumb has its place.
Erik
Zappa had something to say about that as well
Van Jealous
That would either be either “Dinah-Moe-Humm”, “Wind Up Working In A Gas Station” or the never released “Swallow My Pride”…in this context, I am presuming that you are implying the 1st one…
Rose by Any other Name
The foreshadowing…
Joyce was always going to fuck the gay poindexter. The only question was which gay poindexter.
Also, @Birion: I usually go with ring and middle, actually. The pointer is good for precision and speed, but lacks the power for the really good stuff.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Climbers know this as well.
Annaphylaxis
Now this, *this* should be delightful.
Andale, toro! Andale!
ReFlex76
That smile. Perfection.
Dara
I love how much of an utter happy horndog Joyce is becoming here, it’s utterly adorable xD
Amara
Joyce isn’t being a horndog, per se. She’s being a seductress. Dorothy, on the other hand….
Vanessa
Yes, it’s so cute. She just filled with pure happiness to be lustful and to inspire lust. It’s great revenge on her horrible mother and the fundie upbringing, “living well.”
Matrix
Gee Wilikers!!
Effie
Gee Willis-kers?
Lumino
And we’re back to doing this, eh?
How many comics until we pretend there will be consequences until Willis edges us again. Any takers?
Needfuldoer
Which will happen first, we pretend there’s consequences, or Dorothy issues Joyce another command?
ReFlex76
Consequences for what?
Rose by Any other Name
I don’t know why y’all are surprised. It’s a comic.
When the comic builds up to consequences, the funniest option is to yank them away – only to drop them when we least expect it.
It happened with Joe too. Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth only for Joe to completely defuse the situation, his calm reaction being the joke (an unexpected result contrary to expectation). Willis built up the expectation to make the reversal land harder. It’s a basic writing technique.
Now he’s doing it again. I don’t think he’ll repeat the joke, but since he’s using the same sort of buildup, I’m guessing he’s going for another ironic contrast as the payoff. I can think of a few Becky reactions that would qualify, so I guess we’ll see.
thejeff
Except that only works when it’s unexpected. When you telegraph yanking away the consequences and do it repeatedly, it falls flat. Which is a problem a lot of us have with this arc.
That said, I do fully expect the buildup around them being scared to tell Becky means she won’t react badly.
ESM
If Becky is totally cool with it after all this build-up it will be *amazing*, though.
thejeff
I guess. Isn’t it kind of the expected result now though?
Sharizard
When it comes down it to, the whole situation only really had five potential consequences of this whole event:
1) Joe gets hurt – Resolved in an expected way. Joe is fine with the situation. Overall, handled well (if only because Joe has grown a lot).
2) Walky gets hurt – Resolved through punchline. Walky walks down the path of self-destruction. Overall, handled very badly (seriously Dorothy…).
3) Joyce’s family – On hold, but referred to repeatedly. Foreboding newspaper situation threatens future problems.
4) Friend’s opinions – Several catered to. Sal doesn’t care. Jennifer has opinions. Presumedly more to come.
5) Becky’s feelings – Delayed and delayed. Possibly setting us up for a punchline though I’d argue that since the Walky part of it had this kind of setup, revealing what’s happening to Becky may actually be bad.
So 4/5 were catered to one way or another, with the last one clearly being intentionally delayed. I’m sure there’s other issues that cropped up (such as Amazi-Girl’s injuries and the fears those who protested are feeling, but i’d argue these are tangent to the relationship in question here).
What are people actually expecting here in terms of consequences? A fight? Fists flying? Death? Lot of shoutiness? Someone running away in tears? Declarations of revenge? One of the other billions of cliches you get in shittier writing/daytime television?
Consequences are happening. Just turns out things ain’t simple and instantaneous. They’ve been publicly outed. The whole thing is fueling Walky’s self-destruction while he gets treated like a joke. You can be damn sure Joyce’s mum is going to have opinions on this. Dorothy is doing all of this while she knows Amber is recuperating and that certainly fuels her self-worth issues. And probably some other stuff.
I get that people don’t like how these two got together, but please don’t insist that there haven’t been consequences just because they aren’t the consequences you wanted.
Fuzzy
I think Joyce’s family is gonna be a big deal, but I don’t think it counts as a consequence in this situation. Joyce’s mom would flip out if she saw DoJo kissing in any context. The choices that DoJo made, of getting together the way they did at the time they did with the relationships they had, is irrelevant. The only way Joyce could prevent her mom from crashing out would be to 1. never publicly post anything about her non-straight relationships, or 2. never come out of the closet at all.
Proxiehunter
Getting together the way they did, the time they did, is precicely why there is a picture of them on the front page of their college news paper meaning they have no control over when and how this news comes to te attention of anyone in their family.
Fuzzy
I dunno, can you imagine a when and how that results in Mrs. Brown being normal about it? It’s gonna happen sooner because it was at the protest, but it would’ve happened some day, and it would be just as terrible then.
Random832
I mean the other possibility was that they never see each other again. Once Joyce isn’t at the university anymore Carol doesn’t know where she lives.
thejeff
What were we expecting? There’s no need to be overly dramatic about it. No death. No beatings. No dramatic declarations of revenge.
One of the boys involved to be upset about being cheated on? Kind of like Sarah was, but on their own behalf and thus not quickly defused by Joe.
Sharizard
Pretty sure Walky’s upset right now. It’s just his coping mechanism is broken.
Nono
Yet another strip that might be kinda cute if they had cleared the whole poly thing up already??
Proxiehunter
Still cute.
Vanessa
Yes, still very cute. They are just cartoon freshmen who dated boys for a few days. Some people are overreacting so bizarrely, as if they were real people breaking up 20 year marriages with kids and houses.
JD
i don’t think it is particularly accurate or charitable to assume that cheating on their boyfriends to begin with has to be the reason for someone to be unnerved, uncomfortable, or worried by their displays of affection given the circumstances. this level of dismissiveness towards expressing discomfort towards casual inconsiderate or unkind behavior in a narrative is weird, actually. yes, some people have been entirely too bigoted regarding this storyline. but that does not appear to be the case here.
YourCousinJay
I understand this is a comic n all but despite it’s occassional fantastical elements to dismiss them as “just cartoon freshmen” feels reductive as hell with the story that’s been told with them up to this point.
Like them cheating isn’t some final like punchline and people are incredibly invested in these characters collective story so ofcourse people are going to care when two of the leading characters cheat on the two characters that didn’t even believe they were capible of love until they had met them, only for the narritive tension to suddenly screech to a halt as our two core leads spend their morning just casually wandering around after only trying to get ahead of the news of them very publicly cheating once, before then seemingly giving up instead of just talking to their friends in any meaningful, and in Joyce’s case not even considering how this could affect their friends at all.
Skychrono
Well said.
Needfuldoer
So why should we get invested in this relationship?
thejeff
I’m gonna give it 6 months of their time before I take it seriously.
StClair
Some of us may be dead by then.
Steamweed
Still cute. Just barely started exploring.
Sirksome
What is there to clear up exactly? The way I read it, regardless of any potential poly development Joe pitched, it was pretty clear Joyce chose Dorothy. They broke up. Joe even admitted he doesn’t think he can compete with Dorothy and just wants a fraction of Joyce’s love and attention. Any potential poly conversation as stated should be for later, but Joyce doesn’t even know if she wants that. I think the problem is that the breakup kind of ended to cleanly so it feels ambiguous but Joe’s expression in the final panel of that strip isn’t the face of a man confident he still has a girlfriend and Joyce is very clearly operating under no assumption she’s still with Joe.
Feel bad for Joe. I do, but Joyce and Dorothy can probably be cute and fuck as free and clear as two bi chicks can when one is deathly afraid of her gay roommate finding out. Turns out that’s not much.
Strawb
Joyce’s nervous “yeah” when Dorothy referred to Joe as her ex implies Joyce is very much of the opinion she didn’t break up with him yet. Don’t deny the implication is that’s probably the route she’s heading down but she didn’t actually do it (more importantly doesn’t think she did).
Sirksome
That’s putting a lot on a “Yehh?”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/splash/
Which could mean anything from “Am I still with him?” to “Saying ex-boyfriend feels weird cause it just happened.” or literally anything else. Not saying Joyce won’t consider Joe’s proposal, it’s even very likely she still has feelings for him and would like to date him and Dorothy, but she’s broke up with him. That’s what happened. She said it when they left the paper.
I kinda just don’t like in this story where we’re already being exceptionally critical of the circumstances around these two dating we’re also finding reasons to undercut the developments when they actually make them.
I only think it’s very messed up that Joe’s created a situation where he’s likely clinging to hope while Joyce wants to fuck her gf without giving him a second thought. He’s maybe too good for her in this scenario.
Strawb
That’s a valid interpretation. I cant see the part where she says they broke up. She says “we informed our boys” which I read as purposely dodging what actually happened.
I’d argue that we still don’t know if Joyce considers them broken up (or more accurately there’s two opposite interpretations).
I agree that current story keeps undercutting their development. I would prefer some clarification.
Whirlakitty
I would argue that based on everything she’s said and done, Joyce very much does NOT consider herself and Joe broken up.
Freezer
I subscribe to this take.
Odo
Joe is 100% too good for her.
His whole issue was: “My father is a cheating horndog so I will be too and I will never deserve a serious relationship”
First he dealt with this by pursuing casual hookups exclusively and by adopting an objectifying misogynistic attitude. The misogyny was a problem, but it was addressed in the comic. He was condemned, faced consequences, repented, and chose to act differently.
He still thinks poorly of himself though, which explains why he doesn’t seem to think at all about himself. Joyce cheats on him and he goes “I just want you to have what you want”.
At some point I hope he realizes that he is a good person and doesn’t need to keep dragging himself for his Father’s actions.
Finep
He said he wanted to keep his place in Joyce’s heart, and I think he meant he would like his relationship with Joyce to stay as much as possible the same.
So he already thinks of himself, just not enough (maybe he should have followed when Joyce left). I also think he sincerely isn’t jealous, or thought about it and saw/thought it was a bit silly.
Or at least it would be coherent. He did look sad, but it would be logical too if it was out of fear…
Whirlakitty
What consequences? He treated women like crap, and managed to get caught in a public way. He had his little list go viral, leading a lot of women to feel really bad and probably suffer all sorts of bullying and abuse. He had what appeared to be extremely eager and very consensual sex with Penny, and then got her fired and thrown out for it. And the consequences for him were…that he felt a lot of self pity? And decided to be a “better guy” because…he’s really hot for Joyce. But to Dorothy he’s condescending and mean and either A) rubbing it in her face that he’s with Joyce and she’s not or B) actively trying to push her to be interested in Joyce. And he’s a real condescending ass to Rachel for her being so ridiculous as to not realize that like, a week ago, in private he started to be a better person. I still consider Joe an utter piece of crap. To change my opinion, I’d have to see him being a better person even when its not based on getting the date he wants.
Amara
It’s interesting how we can walk away with such different takes on Joe and Rachel’s gym convo. He’s being considerate at first because he knows his list was awful and fucked up, so lots of people dislike him, so he avoids stimulating their ire. Rachel continues to deny change is possible, (which is kinda the other shoe style of commentary to booster’s recurring line about revealing who we’ve actually always been underneath).
Also, it’s the second semester. All of the list shit was before the winter vacation. It’s been a little bit longer than just a few days. I think his change actually started happening before the winter vacation but it really was showing even from his very first appearances this semester.
Differentiator
In what world is cutting the conversation short and telling Joe “we’ll talk later” a clean breakup? In my book, there’s no official status on the two of them yet. And, as Strawb pointed out, Joyce is aware of that.
My guess is she’s pushing those thoughts aside and she’ll break down once she and Dorothy actually attempt to have sex.
Sirksome
The part where she said we have to break up because “I kissed Dorothy and plan on doing it again.” Or the part where she said. “I can’t date two people cause I’m not a hussy.” Just because Joe wants to still date Joyce and Joyce will talk to him doesn’t mean she didn’t say those things. That’s how agency works.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/endorse/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/dateboth/
I don’t know how much more clear you can get here. Undercutting it with a joke and Joe’s general “You don’t have to break up with me.” argument don’t take away pretty solid decisions Joyce made. This feels like the Lucy situation where just because the last words a couple says during a break up aren’t “I officially declare we are broken up.” it means it didn’t happen, when the truth is communication is just messy sometimes.
eh, whatever
That just means the possibility of polyamory hadn’t crossed her mind yet.
Two panels later she says she is a hussy. I’m a bit lost on how you managed to overlook the final panel, the punchline, or a strip you’re linking to.
Reality can be messy, too. Messy communication can cover up cases when reality is clear, but it can also simply reflect messy reality.
Sirksome
I didn’t overlook the punchline. I directly mentioned it. “Undercutting with a joke.” But even taking it as literal in that moment Joyce realizing she is in fact a hussy doesn’t instantly invalidate her statement that she can’t date both of them. But I give up here. If people directly saying they broke up doesn’t constitute a break up I guess Joyce is still cheating. Dorothy is too, she never technically completely broke up with Walky. I can accept the status quo that there will be general baseline of filthy cheater status for the entirety of Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship. Good for them.
thejeff
I’d say that whether or not they’re actually broken up, Joyce is no longer cheating on Joe. She’s made it clear that whatever happens she’s going to be with Dorothy and Joe’s accepted that. The options are poly with the three of them or just Dorothy and Joyce. Either way, cheating on Joe isn’t a possibility.
If she is actually considering the poly option, she really needs to talk to Dorothy about it rather than leaving Dorothy under the impression she’s made a clean break.
Bedovian
You say “undercutting it with a joke” but that line is only a joke for the audience. Joyce doesn’t know she’s in a comic where her dialogue can be seen as funny. There’s no reason to believe she wasn’t serious there.
Clif
Some of us make jokes for the audience, whether the audience is really there or not.
Or maybe it’s an internal audience. Anyway, people are complicated.
Sirksome
Yes. You are correct. Joyce realizing she was in fact a hussy means her relationship with Joe is still in play and she’s eager to cheat on him with Dorothy in hopes of a poly route. Every interaction so far between them has been shameless hussy behavior.
John Campbell
It is impossible for Joyce to cheat on Joe with Dorothy because he has explicitly endorsed her being with Dorothy. It isn’t cheating if it isn’t against the rules.
Shogeton
To me that is ‘Hey, our current relation is broken up. I’m with Dorothy.’ Joe offers a poly relation, and Joyce says she will consider it. But that doesn’t mean that Joyce is being unfaithful here. Until such a time that she and Dorothy agree to go Poly, Joyce is with Doroty and not with Joyce.
It’d be considerate to Joe not to leave him hanging too long, but there is nothing ‘wrong’ to me, even in a ‘horny college Freshmen’ sense about Joyce and Dorothy to fully act like girlfriends with everything involved in it.
Shogeton
Joyce is with Dorothy and not with Joe that is of course.
Felian
yes, exactly my feelings. i WANT them to be cute, but Joyce is withholding information, which means Dorothy isn’t fully consenting to what she’s in.
Joyce didn’t *really definitely* break up with Joe (she just baaaasically left him on read in a reallife conversation), but Dorothy thinks she did, that the Joe chapter is closed. That’s not informed consent.
Joyce needs to either *definitely* end things with Joe (including refusing his poly offer), or come clean to Dorothy that she’s considering it.
Random832
I think as long as she doesn’t do anything with Joe before informing Dorothy of the situation, she’s not doing anything wrong at this point. It’s more or less fine for her to do whatever with Dorothy now, and then, at whatever point afterwards, either tell Joe ‘no’ without necessarily ever informing Dorothy it was a possibility (or how close she was to considering a yes), or bring up the possibility with Dorothy of getting back together under some poly arrangement. I don’t think merely the fact that the offer is open or even that Joyce is considering it is the kind of thing that must be disclosed or somehow impairs informed consent. It’s mildly shitty, but not even cheating levels of shitty let alone consent issues level of shitty.
The only thing I don’t like in that context is how insistent she was on closing off the possibility of Dorothy doing the same with Walky. “I win you lose” isn’t very poly of you, Joyce.
Random832
(Would either Walky or Dorothy go for it? Probably not. But that’s none of Joyce’s business, at least not in the scenario where she and Dorothy aren’t in a monogamous relationship)
shadowcell
Dorothy Fucks the Homeschooled Fundamentalist Veneration of Chastity Mindset Out of Joyce: A Dumbing of Age Pornographique
Cimorene
That just sounds like a Chuck Tingle DoA crossover fanfic
deliverything
Well, almost. Maybe it would be more like “Pounded in the Caboodle by the Rejection of Fundamentalist Veneration of Chastity”. It would involve Joyce wearing a size six strap-on, I suspect.
AK
I enjoyed this comment tremendously, thank you.
Steamweed