I hope Joyce gives Lucy’s church a shot. So much of Joyce’s life and being has been based around church and god, this crisis of faith is really ripping into her. If Joyce does leave church for good (which I doubt) I’d like her to experience actually kind places before doing so.
Oh true, I’m an atheist myself. I just don’t really see her going from super religious to atheist in the space of a semester or two (or however long the webcomic covers). Having doubts, sure, but not full on non-belief.
Plus, Joyce hasn’t exactly had a lot of experience with different types of churches/religions. Finding out choices she has, over the (fundy? evangelical?) one she was raised with, would be great!
thejeff
One of Joyce’s problems is that her religious understanding isn’t very deep. As she says here, it’s mostly social and emotional. She’s got her theological hangups, but her concerns about those pale next to her need for the familiar. If the church has folding chairs, electric guitars, grape juice and Jesus in a blue sash, she’ll be fine.
At the same time, what she has absorbed of what they taught seems to be more hot button political issues than theological differences – gender roles, sex, evolution. But her indoctrination has tied those tightly to her faith. She’s said how if evolution is true, then everything else is a lie.
I’m not really sure how she’d do looking for a new church, since her emotional reaction is likely to overwhelm any more intellectual analysis of doctrine, but the doctrine’s likely to conflict with what she’s learning outside of church. She could just stumble into a hippie church with the right asthetic, I suppose. That’s probably her best chance to stay religious.
BarerMender
Course of a semester? I went from Catholic to agnostic to atheist in a week. At age 14. When irrational beliefs start to collapse, they can go down in a cloud of dust like a dynamited building.
I became atheistic-agnostic 4 LYFE at like age 8 after throwing myself at the ground and knocking the wind out of myself, passing out with absolutely no vision of the afterlife or any of that noise, and realising I would have just stayed in that nothingness if not for my mother reviving me
SLIP ‘N’ SLIDE DISPROVED GOD
(not a “you just weren’t dead long enough” thing, either, I’ve relived that every time I pass out, which is a lot more often now I have to have regular grown up doctor appointments and shit)
Felian
Whether or not she is on the path to atheism, it might be nice to find a church that’s less dogmatic and judgmental. If she finds one that fits her new conscience, perfect – if she finds atheism fits her conscience – perfect.
But yes, it can be very scary to get rid of what you’ve believed all your life. As thejeff said, there’s so much emotional anchoring involved, Joyce needs the familiar.
Some of the feeling just sticks with you. “There is none like you“ is singing itself in my head now and part of me wants to sing it out loud to recreate the peaceful feeling i used to have as a kid and teen when we were singing at church. Now, i feel guilty somehow to be convinced atheist and still kind of missing the comfort it used to hold. It does leave an empty spot. I don’t miss the dogma ever. i just miss how some of the recurring habits around christianity made me feel safe.
Somehow, it was nice to believe in a God that could theoretically make everything work out, while now, it’s just up to ME… it can be scary. But i tell myself that if god didn’t exist back when i believed he solved my problems, it means I did it on my own after all.
Still. Religion can give comfort. But i haven’t yet found (and stopped trying) a christian branch of faith that gives you the comfort without the dogma and judgement.
You know I just watched Knowing Better’s video on Hitting Rock Bottom, or how traumatic adversity can make one rethink their whole belief system. I think it is an apt explanation for Joyce’s thoughts and actions lately.
Very insightful.
When your entire world view is Jesus is Love and Church is Infallible, it’s destabilizing enough to realize that what you were taught about atheists and LGBTQ people is wrong and hateful.
But when a man you always believed was A Good Christian points a gun at you because of that hatefulness and your beloved mother sides with him, suddenly you see she’s not as good and loving as you thought and if your Good Christian Mother isn’t Pure Jesus Love, then what really is Jesus Love, and your world comes crashing down.
Things should never be as great as children believe to those same children when they grow up. If they are, then we have failed to raise children to be better than we are.
I want my great grandchildren to think of me as archaic, some of my beliefs barbaric. I want them to believe things I am not inclined to, hold ideas I would never think of and take civilization beyond what I could ever envision.
desolation0
I quite enjoy this thought. Thank you. Fortunately given how often we think of our past selves as archaic there is a good chance of this happening.
Freemage
I’ve occasionally opined that someday, I want to have been a horrible person right now, because that will mean we’ve actually advanced a bit.
Seregiel
I get this, but I also grew up with my great grandparents and saw you could be flexible with your beliefs and adapt to do better if you eat your humble pie and love enough. I get so angry at wrongs against people, I hope that my idea of progress isn’t so rigidly held I become archaic in that manner. I want my grandchildren to help me evolve too so they can be proud of me that learning can go in all directions.
TemperaryObsessor
True success for society is if our grandchildren can look back on us and think our society was garbage compared to their’s and be right.
Felian
Wow, that’s an inspiring thought. I had always just aimed at getting kids to be just as good as what i think is good, but i really appreciate the idea that i could be seen as archaic… let’s see. But it’s good to keep in mind that what i believe now to be good ethics will be outdated very soon. Aaaand i think my beliefs are already beyond what the average of people think (i’m not comparing to you guys, more to right wing people which are scarily many) ….. so if the next generation is EVEN BETTER, i’m excited about it!
Are we talking about a creates-alternate-timelines time machine, or a can’t-change-the-past time machine, or a creates-universe-destroying-paradoxes time machine?
158 thoughts on “Recommended”
Ana Chronistic
“well Tristan’s a tall glass of water”
Tacos
But does his voice give him super strength?
Delicious Taffy
He’s been thinking about changing it.
MatthewTheLucky
What?! Change your voice!? That’s imposssibbble!
fire_daws
Hate to break this for Joyce but he’s more interested in Serenity.
Felian
That depends on what hormones your body is on!
ValdVin
That panel is a…tall order for a book title.
ValdVin
(By which I mean, Joyce in panel 4.)
Reltzik
It might make for a good song verse though.
Xenocide
“What are you looking for, exactly?” could be a good option!
Ana Chronistic
Dumbing of Age Book 9: *see page 68, strip 2, panel 4
Joe Moose
That *is* a tall order.
Poor Joyce.
Plasma Mongoose
“Have you ever considered switching to Buddhism?”
Opus the Poet
Or Folger’s Crystals? “We secretly replaced Joyce’s church with dark, rich Folger’s Crystals. Do you think she’ll notice the difference?”
JetstreamGW
Go big or go home, Joyce.
Reltzik
Go big, since you can’t go home.
Masumi
Then maybe just go back to bed.
Bagge
That was her plan A.
Marsh Maryrose
“O lost, and by the wind grieved, ghost, come back again.”
Yumi
Damn, now Joyce has to actively decline church instead of just sleeping in and acting like it’s not on her mind.
For those who don’t want Joyce to go the atheist route, Lucy’s church may be a good alternate. Perhaps. We’ll see.
Hazel
I hope Joyce gives Lucy’s church a shot. So much of Joyce’s life and being has been based around church and god, this crisis of faith is really ripping into her. If Joyce does leave church for good (which I doubt) I’d like her to experience actually kind places before doing so.
Keulen
I’d like to see Joyce try Lucy’s church, but I also wouldn’t mind if she eventually goes the atheist route. It’s not that bad a route to take.
Hazel
Oh true, I’m an atheist myself. I just don’t really see her going from super religious to atheist in the space of a semester or two (or however long the webcomic covers). Having doubts, sure, but not full on non-belief.
Plus, Joyce hasn’t exactly had a lot of experience with different types of churches/religions. Finding out choices she has, over the (fundy? evangelical?) one she was raised with, would be great!
thejeff
One of Joyce’s problems is that her religious understanding isn’t very deep. As she says here, it’s mostly social and emotional. She’s got her theological hangups, but her concerns about those pale next to her need for the familiar. If the church has folding chairs, electric guitars, grape juice and Jesus in a blue sash, she’ll be fine.
At the same time, what she has absorbed of what they taught seems to be more hot button political issues than theological differences – gender roles, sex, evolution. But her indoctrination has tied those tightly to her faith. She’s said how if evolution is true, then everything else is a lie.
I’m not really sure how she’d do looking for a new church, since her emotional reaction is likely to overwhelm any more intellectual analysis of doctrine, but the doctrine’s likely to conflict with what she’s learning outside of church. She could just stumble into a hippie church with the right asthetic, I suppose. That’s probably her best chance to stay religious.
BarerMender
Course of a semester? I went from Catholic to agnostic to atheist in a week. At age 14. When irrational beliefs start to collapse, they can go down in a cloud of dust like a dynamited building.
Ana Chronistic
I became atheistic-agnostic 4 LYFE at like age 8 after throwing myself at the ground and knocking the wind out of myself, passing out with absolutely no vision of the afterlife or any of that noise, and realising I would have just stayed in that nothingness if not for my mother reviving me
SLIP ‘N’ SLIDE DISPROVED GOD
(not a “you just weren’t dead long enough” thing, either, I’ve relived that every time I pass out, which is a lot more often now I have to have regular grown up doctor appointments and shit)
Felian
Whether or not she is on the path to atheism, it might be nice to find a church that’s less dogmatic and judgmental. If she finds one that fits her new conscience, perfect – if she finds atheism fits her conscience – perfect.
But yes, it can be very scary to get rid of what you’ve believed all your life. As thejeff said, there’s so much emotional anchoring involved, Joyce needs the familiar.
Some of the feeling just sticks with you. “There is none like you“ is singing itself in my head now and part of me wants to sing it out loud to recreate the peaceful feeling i used to have as a kid and teen when we were singing at church. Now, i feel guilty somehow to be convinced atheist and still kind of missing the comfort it used to hold. It does leave an empty spot. I don’t miss the dogma ever. i just miss how some of the recurring habits around christianity made me feel safe.
Somehow, it was nice to believe in a God that could theoretically make everything work out, while now, it’s just up to ME… it can be scary. But i tell myself that if god didn’t exist back when i believed he solved my problems, it means I did it on my own after all.
Still. Religion can give comfort. But i haven’t yet found (and stopped trying) a christian branch of faith that gives you the comfort without the dogma and judgement.
Makkabee
I can understand Joyce’s desire for a church that gives her that “not having a gun pointed at my face” feeling.
desolation0
You know I just watched Knowing Better’s video on Hitting Rock Bottom, or how traumatic adversity can make one rethink their whole belief system. I think it is an apt explanation for Joyce’s thoughts and actions lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSfK9PzEDw
BigDogLittleCat
Very insightful.
When your entire world view is Jesus is Love and Church is Infallible, it’s destabilizing enough to realize that what you were taught about atheists and LGBTQ people is wrong and hateful.
But when a man you always believed was A Good Christian points a gun at you because of that hatefulness and your beloved mother sides with him, suddenly you see she’s not as good and loving as you thought and if your Good Christian Mother isn’t Pure Jesus Love, then what really is Jesus Love, and your world comes crashing down.
mrnoidea
Yes, I’m glad someone else knows about Knowing Better! It’s also through him that I found exurb1a and Contrapoints.
BigDogLittleCat
That’s high on my list when seeking places of comfort.
Stephen Bierce
*plays “Show Me The Way” on the hacked Muzak*
Stephen Bierce
THIS one.
ValdVin
I thought it was that one.
Stephen Bierce
The Frampton one is a lot more popular.
Willoughby Chase
Neil Young’s pretty pessimistic about that tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-macfL0MdM
Kern Wallace
That’s a tall speech bubble.
Sunny
Not as tall as it’s wide, though.
*urge to make a “your mom” joke rising*
What is wrong with me!?
Nono
I’m waiting for the uncomfortable moment when Jacob asks Joyce to go to church.
woobie
Oh, she’d be up for that.
ǝ snow ʍousɐ
Actually, I think Joyce will go up to Jacob and say TAKE ME TO CHURCH
ǝ snow ʍousɐ
(and then of course someone will start singing that song)
drs
She’s already been to his church and freaked out.
Nono
Not since she’s started her epiphany, though.
Mra
maybe she could go to Jacob’s place again?
Reltzik
PAPACY!
Mra
?
Reltzik
Jacob’s church was too Catholic for her, even though it wasn’t Catholic.
BBCC
Oh, honey, it doesn’t work that way.
She needs a hug. And a time machine. And a non-sucky church.
Robbie
A time machine would only help her see that even then it wasn’t as great as she believed… And I think she already knows that
Bless her heart.
BBCC
Yeah, but sometimes it’s nice to have some nostalgia.
Whether or not her nostalgia would be ‘nice’ on the other hand.
Jamie
Nostalgia is the missing of old times, not the re-experiencing of old times.
BBCC
Depending how the time machine works, they can be more like a close up movie of old times.
Falcon
Things should never be as great as children believe to those same children when they grow up. If they are, then we have failed to raise children to be better than we are.
I want my great grandchildren to think of me as archaic, some of my beliefs barbaric. I want them to believe things I am not inclined to, hold ideas I would never think of and take civilization beyond what I could ever envision.
desolation0
I quite enjoy this thought. Thank you. Fortunately given how often we think of our past selves as archaic there is a good chance of this happening.
Freemage
I’ve occasionally opined that someday, I want to have been a horrible person right now, because that will mean we’ve actually advanced a bit.
Seregiel
I get this, but I also grew up with my great grandparents and saw you could be flexible with your beliefs and adapt to do better if you eat your humble pie and love enough. I get so angry at wrongs against people, I hope that my idea of progress isn’t so rigidly held I become archaic in that manner. I want my grandchildren to help me evolve too so they can be proud of me that learning can go in all directions.
TemperaryObsessor
True success for society is if our grandchildren can look back on us and think our society was garbage compared to their’s and be right.
Felian
Wow, that’s an inspiring thought. I had always just aimed at getting kids to be just as good as what i think is good, but i really appreciate the idea that i could be seen as archaic… let’s see. But it’s good to keep in mind that what i believe now to be good ethics will be outdated very soon. Aaaand i think my beliefs are already beyond what the average of people think (i’m not comparing to you guys, more to right wing people which are scarily many) ….. so if the next generation is EVEN BETTER, i’m excited about it!
Reltzik
Are we talking about a creates-alternate-timelines time machine, or a can’t-change-the-past time machine, or a creates-universe-destroying-paradoxes time machine?
ShinyNeen
Sounds like, either way, somebody’d have to teach Joyce how time travel works.
Not it!
Kat
I mean, most of those solve the problem one way or the other. …
BBCC
Exactly! 😀
ShinyNeen
Maybe we can work through our difficult feelings without destroying the universe via time paradoxes?
Portland
Now THAT’S a tall order.
BBCC
You’re no fun! *pouts*
ShinyNeen
Look, I just think it’s awfully illogical to go around destroying universes just to avoid-
-Oh no. I really AM no fun.
Schpoonman
At my last job when we were assigning people different characters from Spongebob, guess who got Squidward?
ShinyNeen
It took me several seconds to realize that you were referring to yourself, if that helps : )