**nods**
Eventually, anyway. Sal’s last panel in yesterday’s strip really upset me, so I am glad to see that she’s pulled her head outta her butt.
Stu
In fairness to Sal, Walky’s always been the favorite child without having to try, and he’s been doing his damnedest to hide that he’s HAD a problem to start with.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
Sure… but not sure what that has to do with Sal slut-shaming people.
Of course, I will also admit that (somewhat like Roz) this is a rather hot-button issue for me. Between her actions here and in It’s Walky, I kinda actively dislike Sal. See also the situation with Marcie.
Diner Kinetic
Oh yeah one of Sal’s major charachter flaws is, in a way, kind of the same as Ambers- she’s totally a superhero; and butts into other people’s business because she sees herself as competent to deal with it (offering to rough up Ruth for Billie way back when is the main example I can think of). It’s a bad behavior that comes from a good place, and she definitely doesn’t like it when other people do it (Amazi-Girl, Jason); but Sal stands up for those she thinks needs standing up for and tries to right perceived wrongs. It just doesn’t always work in a world with shades of grey
Stu
I think it’s because Walky was going “Oh woe is me” regarding Dorothy, and then did a complete 180 – she wasn’t slut-shaming Amber, she was berating her brother for moving on that quickly and, in her eyes, that callously.
NotPiffany
And without context she doesn’t have, “this is garbage rood, nothing up here means anything” is… not a pleasant sentiment.
Kabo
Even with context it’s pretty stupid. It would be convenient if we could justify our actions by just defining certain places or times where normal morality and decency doesn’t apply, but that’s not how that stuff works.
CJ
I really don’t see why Morality had to be invoked for two consenting adults smooching. Both are single to boot, so it’s even less anybody else’s business than usual in this strip.
Alanari
It is their business. But that makes the argument “it doesn’t count on garbage roof” even more stupid. Walky does think it’s wrong, he does feel guilty and he rationalizes it in an incredibly stupid way.
If you want to rebound, go for it. But don’t make up stupid excuses like garbage roof. Be honest with yourself about what you are doing.
Kabo
@CJ That wasn’t my point. My point is it’s a bad justification, supposing that there’s something that needs to be justified.
Lex
I think it was less slut-shaming and more shaming Walky for moving on that quickly and saying it didn’t mean anything because it was garbage roof. Once Walky explained WHY he likes Amber, Sal backed off. Slut shaming would imply that she shames people for liking sex, which she doesn’t. She’s never shown shaming Roz for being in a porn tape, for example.
the final pam
I don’t think Sal even knows who Roz is, let alone been in a situation to talk about her.
No grappling hook this time. Also, doesn’t Amazi-girl usually make the dramatic exits (and entrances) rather than Amber? (Infiltrating the math building is an exception I think.)
*facepalms* Walky no. If you ARE truly interested in Amber, then think of her as her own person. Don’t compare her to Dorathy and certainly don’t call her a “Thicc” Dorathy. Appreciate her for who and what she is not what/who she isn’t.
But wouldn’t this comic be so much better if all the characters were morally perfect beings who never did anything wrong or bad?
CJ
And wouldn’t the world be a much more peaceful place if people stopped thinking about Morality(!) when two (or more) consenting adults are sexually interested in each other and follow up on it and instead applied ethics to the things they do in everyday life (e.g. not judge other people’s relationship choices).
There a difference between “hey, this is not a good move” and “you are WRONG!”
Kabo
You’re really hung up on my use of the word “morality”. I don’t think that word means what you think it means. “Ethics” and “morality” are two words for the same thing. One comes from Greek, the other from Latin.
Anyway, I wasn’t talking about the Walky-Amber smooching, I was talking about what the poster that I replied to was talking about, i.e. calling Amber “thicc Dorothy”
CJ
Right. IMO, morality is something that comes from outside of yourself, from a church, some other power that wants to tell people what to do and what not to do by instilling guilt in them.
Ethics come from within, that has to do with acting according to your own inner conviction and knowing acts have consequences.
And whenever I see or hear people moralizing about and judging other people’s relationship choices, I wonder why they have such a need to police other people’s most private feelings. There is an incredible amount of contradictory expectations on how when and with whom people should or shouldn’t have relationships, and it shouldn’t be anybody’s business when how and with whom people are attracted, have sex or relationships, as long as all parties involved are adults that consented to it and had a real option of not consenting.
thejeff
Because you can hurt people with sex and relationship choices, just like with choices in any relationship. Just that sex and romance tend to cut deeper and can be more painful.
So yes, ethics or morality apply. We talk about the moral implications of all sorts of acts here in this comic, I don’t see why relationships should be immune. And yes, there are contradictory expectations, like with everything else.
As for morality and ethics, I think you’ve got them almost backwards, though as Kabo says they’re often interchangeable. When they’re not, morality is generally the internal and ethics the external. A business for example might have a code of ethics its employees are expected to follow.
Where I think your version comes from is that many do learn their morals from their religion. It has to come from somewhere, even if it’s just the examples of parents and other role models. For many, their church is that place.
You know except for the part where they’re completely different people with basically no commonalities whatsoever beyond the completely superficial.
Makkabee
Picked the same college, played the same sports in high school, fell for the same guys, both have strong nerd interests, both have a deep commitment to justice and a desire to protect their loved ones… yup, no commonalities beyond the completely superficial there whatsoever.
Emily
Strong nerd interests is not a commonality that’s an incredibly broad field that has no unifying characteristics, Amber isn’t committed to justice she’s committed to subjecting acceptable victims to violence to make herself feel powerful if she gave a damn about justice she wouldn’t have changed Walky’s completely deserved grades, desire to protect ones loved ones is like a defining trait of decent humans in general.
BBCC
Also, they didn’t play the same sports – although they played similar ones. Amber did track and field and Dorothy ran cross country. And honestly, Amber and Billie have more similar body shapes than Amber and Dorothy do. Amber and Dorothy look similar enough for the gag toward but it’s really not super accurate if you look at them in detail.
thejeff
I think it’s the hair, mostly. 🙂
But yeah, very, very different people. Driven, ambitious over-achiever with supportive upbringing. Smart, abused kid with serious anger issues. Even the nerd interests seem completely different – mostly cartoons vs gaming.
Makkabee
Amber gets turned on by guys who dig My Little Pony, so still a strong link there.
And I never said that they weren’t different people, I said that the argument that they have no non-superficial commonalities is bullshit. HUGE difference between those two ideas.
the final pam
‘strong nerd interests’
Dorothy’s watched two whole damn cartoons. That doesn’t mean she’s a nerd.
Makkabee
Dorothy edits the wiki for at least one of those, and study-obsessed government official-wannabe is a TOTALLY nerd thing.
Joke or not, I agree with William. Between him calling her ‘Thicc Dorothy’ and a weirdo, it doesn’t feel like he respects Amber very much. He enjoys the attention, and how she makes him feel better, and that’s good and all? But combined with “She’s thicc”, the way he’s licking his lip, and how he just wants someone who won’t ‘move on’ from him… I dunno, I’m just skeeved out.
Eh, he went from feeling like garbage to having somebody who looks like his ex make moves on him to her suddenly bolting because of his sister
I can’t really say Walky is out of line as he’s probably mentally ALL over the place right now. If he acts like this after he’s had an hour or two to let his brain process everything that happened within a couple minutes, THEN I’m going to be worried
As it is, I can’t really be skeeved out as I think ANYBODY would act weird as fuck after that much happens that fast
The weirdo was part of him understanding her. He’s comparing her to himself. He’s saying that she’s a weirdo – and so is he. Also, since Amber herself identifies as a weirdo, again, that is more about understanding Amber as a person.
I’m sure with some guidance the next time he see’s her he’ll approach her with more etiquette now that they’re in a possible romantic stage…. wait a minute, Walky with etiquette? What the fuck am I talking about.
Lets all remember that Walky has no filter. Never has, probably never will, and shaming him for voicing thoughts that someone else would have had but not mentioned isn’t really productive. What he needs are friends and partners who understand that.
StClair
… or he could work on developing one.
I don’t blame him for not having one now, at this stage of life, but the notion that everyone should just accept and excuse and accommodate such behavior indefinitely/for the rest of his life is…
“no, no, you don’t need to learn tact or make any effort towards personal growth; we’ll just carry you so you can remain a child in an adult body, forever.”
Jay
All a filter does is protect pansies from the truth
Emily
It’s not other people’s jobs to be infinitely patient and understanding because a manchild refuses to grow up.
It really feels like he’s latching on to Amber because he doesn’t think she’s too good for him and thus won’t be able to find something better.
thejeff
Or as a rebound from someone who he did think was too good for him and who did leave him. Maybe more someone he won’t have to try and improve himself for. They can be garbage together.
Kind of an echo of Billie and Ruth’s initial pact, now that I think of it.
Emily
Okay but that still means he thinks Amber is garbage so like hardly the best basis of a relationship. Like Billie and Ruth’s pact was fucking incredibly unhealthy.
I would point out that literally everything else Walky said indicated that Walky is interested in Amber as a person and a friend. Sometimes a last panel punchline is just a punchline.
241 thoughts on “Shamed”
newllend(henryvolt)
#ThiccDorothy
Walky_Talky
Thicc like a Double Stuf Oreo.
butts
thicc like a tube sock full of cottage cheese
Sunny
thicc like a Dorothy full of muscles
Clif
Yep.
Schpoonman
Sweet merciful Neptune.
Deanatay
If this comment chain continues, I think I’m gonna be thicc.
Ana Chronistic
#ThiccGonBeGud
Bunnyfufu
EXTRA THICC
shadowcell
MAXIMUM HONESTY
Clif
WITH CHEESE. ALSO FRIES.
Bathymetheus
Add gravy, and you have an approximation to poutine.
Clif
Honest?
das-g
Yes, honest. But the cake is a lie.
Tim
IT”S GARBAGE ROOF. ALWAYS HONEST.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
Oh good – Walky stood his ground. Good for you Walky!
Hm. I hope Amber is okay.
Stu
And Sal respected him for both it and his obvious issues he’s wrestling with right now.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
**nods**
Eventually, anyway. Sal’s last panel in yesterday’s strip really upset me, so I am glad to see that she’s pulled her head outta her butt.
Stu
In fairness to Sal, Walky’s always been the favorite child without having to try, and he’s been doing his damnedest to hide that he’s HAD a problem to start with.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
Sure… but not sure what that has to do with Sal slut-shaming people.
Of course, I will also admit that (somewhat like Roz) this is a rather hot-button issue for me. Between her actions here and in It’s Walky, I kinda actively dislike Sal. See also the situation with Marcie.
Diner Kinetic
Oh yeah one of Sal’s major charachter flaws is, in a way, kind of the same as Ambers- she’s totally a superhero; and butts into other people’s business because she sees herself as competent to deal with it (offering to rough up Ruth for Billie way back when is the main example I can think of). It’s a bad behavior that comes from a good place, and she definitely doesn’t like it when other people do it (Amazi-Girl, Jason); but Sal stands up for those she thinks needs standing up for and tries to right perceived wrongs. It just doesn’t always work in a world with shades of grey
Stu
I think it’s because Walky was going “Oh woe is me” regarding Dorothy, and then did a complete 180 – she wasn’t slut-shaming Amber, she was berating her brother for moving on that quickly and, in her eyes, that callously.
NotPiffany
And without context she doesn’t have, “this is garbage rood, nothing up here means anything” is… not a pleasant sentiment.
Kabo
Even with context it’s pretty stupid. It would be convenient if we could justify our actions by just defining certain places or times where normal morality and decency doesn’t apply, but that’s not how that stuff works.
CJ
I really don’t see why Morality had to be invoked for two consenting adults smooching. Both are single to boot, so it’s even less anybody else’s business than usual in this strip.
Alanari
It is their business. But that makes the argument “it doesn’t count on garbage roof” even more stupid. Walky does think it’s wrong, he does feel guilty and he rationalizes it in an incredibly stupid way.
If you want to rebound, go for it. But don’t make up stupid excuses like garbage roof. Be honest with yourself about what you are doing.
Kabo
@CJ That wasn’t my point. My point is it’s a bad justification, supposing that there’s something that needs to be justified.
Lex
I think it was less slut-shaming and more shaming Walky for moving on that quickly and saying it didn’t mean anything because it was garbage roof. Once Walky explained WHY he likes Amber, Sal backed off. Slut shaming would imply that she shames people for liking sex, which she doesn’t. She’s never shown shaming Roz for being in a porn tape, for example.
the final pam
I don’t think Sal even knows who Roz is, let alone been in a situation to talk about her.
Inahc
I was kinda expecting her to escape down the side of the building, not through a *door*.
RicardtheDragoon
No grappling hook this time. Also, doesn’t Amazi-girl usually make the dramatic exits (and entrances) rather than Amber? (Infiltrating the math building is an exception I think.)
Lingo
*Sigh* I can no longer read “stand your ground” without thinking of Florida. Stupid, stupid Florida.
Bathymetheus
It’ll be underwater in a few decades. And deservedly so.
Benwhoski
I hope that Walky, with their “okay to be garbage” creed, is _finally_ someone that Amber will tell _why_ she’s freaked out by Sal.
Diner Kinetic
I laughed so hard the pain of the last few strips just spiraled into nowhere
wheelpath
I have never related to this dumpster fire we call a boy more than right now.
Doctor_Who
Walky speaks for us all.
William Leonard Reese Jr.
*facepalms* Walky no. If you ARE truly interested in Amber, then think of her as her own person. Don’t compare her to Dorathy and certainly don’t call her a “Thicc” Dorathy. Appreciate her for who and what she is not what/who she isn’t.
Ivy
It’s a joke yo
Kabo
But wouldn’t this comic be so much better if all the characters were morally perfect beings who never did anything wrong or bad?
CJ
And wouldn’t the world be a much more peaceful place if people stopped thinking about Morality(!) when two (or more) consenting adults are sexually interested in each other and follow up on it and instead applied ethics to the things they do in everyday life (e.g. not judge other people’s relationship choices).
There a difference between “hey, this is not a good move” and “you are WRONG!”
Kabo
You’re really hung up on my use of the word “morality”. I don’t think that word means what you think it means. “Ethics” and “morality” are two words for the same thing. One comes from Greek, the other from Latin.
Anyway, I wasn’t talking about the Walky-Amber smooching, I was talking about what the poster that I replied to was talking about, i.e. calling Amber “thicc Dorothy”
CJ
Right. IMO, morality is something that comes from outside of yourself, from a church, some other power that wants to tell people what to do and what not to do by instilling guilt in them.
Ethics come from within, that has to do with acting according to your own inner conviction and knowing acts have consequences.
And whenever I see or hear people moralizing about and judging other people’s relationship choices, I wonder why they have such a need to police other people’s most private feelings. There is an incredible amount of contradictory expectations on how when and with whom people should or shouldn’t have relationships, and it shouldn’t be anybody’s business when how and with whom people are attracted, have sex or relationships, as long as all parties involved are adults that consented to it and had a real option of not consenting.
thejeff
Because you can hurt people with sex and relationship choices, just like with choices in any relationship. Just that sex and romance tend to cut deeper and can be more painful.
So yes, ethics or morality apply. We talk about the moral implications of all sorts of acts here in this comic, I don’t see why relationships should be immune. And yes, there are contradictory expectations, like with everything else.
As for morality and ethics, I think you’ve got them almost backwards, though as Kabo says they’re often interchangeable. When they’re not, morality is generally the internal and ethics the external. A business for example might have a code of ethics its employees are expected to follow.
Where I think your version comes from is that many do learn their morals from their religion. It has to come from somewhere, even if it’s just the examples of parents and other role models. For many, their church is that place.
Jay
tbf. she is a thicc dorothy.
Emily
You know except for the part where they’re completely different people with basically no commonalities whatsoever beyond the completely superficial.
Makkabee
Picked the same college, played the same sports in high school, fell for the same guys, both have strong nerd interests, both have a deep commitment to justice and a desire to protect their loved ones… yup, no commonalities beyond the completely superficial there whatsoever.
Emily
Strong nerd interests is not a commonality that’s an incredibly broad field that has no unifying characteristics, Amber isn’t committed to justice she’s committed to subjecting acceptable victims to violence to make herself feel powerful if she gave a damn about justice she wouldn’t have changed Walky’s completely deserved grades, desire to protect ones loved ones is like a defining trait of decent humans in general.
BBCC
Also, they didn’t play the same sports – although they played similar ones. Amber did track and field and Dorothy ran cross country. And honestly, Amber and Billie have more similar body shapes than Amber and Dorothy do. Amber and Dorothy look similar enough for the gag toward but it’s really not super accurate if you look at them in detail.
thejeff
I think it’s the hair, mostly. 🙂
But yeah, very, very different people. Driven, ambitious over-achiever with supportive upbringing. Smart, abused kid with serious anger issues. Even the nerd interests seem completely different – mostly cartoons vs gaming.
Makkabee
Amber gets turned on by guys who dig My Little Pony, so still a strong link there.
And I never said that they weren’t different people, I said that the argument that they have no non-superficial commonalities is bullshit. HUGE difference between those two ideas.
the final pam
‘strong nerd interests’
Dorothy’s watched two whole damn cartoons. That doesn’t mean she’s a nerd.
Makkabee
Dorothy edits the wiki for at least one of those, and study-obsessed government official-wannabe is a TOTALLY nerd thing.
Doopyboop
Joke or not, I agree with William. Between him calling her ‘Thicc Dorothy’ and a weirdo, it doesn’t feel like he respects Amber very much. He enjoys the attention, and how she makes him feel better, and that’s good and all? But combined with “She’s thicc”, the way he’s licking his lip, and how he just wants someone who won’t ‘move on’ from him… I dunno, I’m just skeeved out.
Icalasari
Eh, he went from feeling like garbage to having somebody who looks like his ex make moves on him to her suddenly bolting because of his sister
I can’t really say Walky is out of line as he’s probably mentally ALL over the place right now. If he acts like this after he’s had an hour or two to let his brain process everything that happened within a couple minutes, THEN I’m going to be worried
As it is, I can’t really be skeeved out as I think ANYBODY would act weird as fuck after that much happens that fast
LeslieBean4Shizzle
The weirdo was part of him understanding her. He’s comparing her to himself. He’s saying that she’s a weirdo – and so is he. Also, since Amber herself identifies as a weirdo, again, that is more about understanding Amber as a person.
newllend(henryvolt)
I’m sure with some guidance the next time he see’s her he’ll approach her with more etiquette now that they’re in a possible romantic stage…. wait a minute, Walky with etiquette? What the fuck am I talking about.
Unusually Angry Hippie
Lets all remember that Walky has no filter. Never has, probably never will, and shaming him for voicing thoughts that someone else would have had but not mentioned isn’t really productive. What he needs are friends and partners who understand that.
StClair
… or he could work on developing one.
I don’t blame him for not having one now, at this stage of life, but the notion that everyone should just accept and excuse and accommodate such behavior indefinitely/for the rest of his life is…
“no, no, you don’t need to learn tact or make any effort towards personal growth; we’ll just carry you so you can remain a child in an adult body, forever.”
Jay
All a filter does is protect pansies from the truth
Emily
It’s not other people’s jobs to be infinitely patient and understanding because a manchild refuses to grow up.
Emily
It really feels like he’s latching on to Amber because he doesn’t think she’s too good for him and thus won’t be able to find something better.
thejeff
Or as a rebound from someone who he did think was too good for him and who did leave him. Maybe more someone he won’t have to try and improve himself for. They can be garbage together.
Kind of an echo of Billie and Ruth’s initial pact, now that I think of it.
Emily
Okay but that still means he thinks Amber is garbage so like hardly the best basis of a relationship. Like Billie and Ruth’s pact was fucking incredibly unhealthy.
Clif
Amber is the best garbage.
thejeff
I don’t think it necessarily does. Or only because he thinks he’s garbage.
Didn’t mean it was healthy, just that it wasn’t intended as “she won’t leave me for something better”.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
I would point out that literally everything else Walky said indicated that Walky is interested in Amber as a person and a friend. Sometimes a last panel punchline is just a punchline.
Makkabee
This.
JetstreamGW
I’ve begun to get the impression that you take this comic more seriously than Willis does.
newllend(henryvolt)
So not serious enough or too Serouse? I don’t know how to read into this.
Kris
Maybe Dorothy is thin Amber! #thinamber
Inahc
would that make danny… a white walker(ton)? 😀