Maybe, but I’ve lived in two of the largest metropolitan areas in the U.S. my whole life and I can only recall actually getting to know two English people in that entire time. And one of them is a guy I saw at work maybe a dozen times ever.
I’ve mostly lived in fairly large metropolitan areas, and met several English people… when I attended a large state university in a college town! Scousers and Geordies and the occasional Public School Accent types, even
Might be two years in Becky’s case? Dina’s 19 now, and I think the rest of the freshmen are 18 unless they’ve had a birthday in the timeskip. So depending on birthdays, Carla might be 20/21.
Thag Simmons
It might be two years on both. I think she’s Ruth’s age and Ruth is 21.
Nono
Carla was still using a fake ID to buy beer early on in the strip, so it would just depend on if she’s had her birthday since.
Segnosaur
I am trying to remember the dialog… But did the strip say “Carla had a fake I’d” or just that someone in Sal’s regular group had an id that looked like it was “generated on a laser printer”. That means either Carla’s Id could be real.
Man, “Ruth is 21”. When I started reading Dumbing of Age I was younger than her and now I’m so much older lol
BTW criticizing Carla because she used the work “kids” seems like a useless exaggeration. It’s not like she said “stupid fucks” or true insults like those.
To be fair to Carla as well, damn near every major character in this comic is a child. It’s pretty much just Leslie and Robin (depending on whether one considers her major) that aren’t.
I assume her choice to call Dian a kid comes from either
1) As a sort of self-absorbed sophomore, everyone younger than her is a “kid.” You remember how high school is right?
or 2) Carla, obviously not having a great grasp on who is who, just does heuristics and correlates height with age. I mean that’s how I know Tom Cruze is 14 and Michael Jordan is roughly 2 million years old.
Aknowledging the point about Dina’s justified anger over being infantilized, if we’re going to call out Carla here, it needs to be for generic ageism. She’s calling them both kids because they’re younger than her, not because of Dina’s stature or appearance.
Secondly, to the alt-text, obviously youtag them both, A-Doy(ce) ?
My (American) experience with the English is a first impression of unusual intelligence. Eventually I figure out they’re no smarter than anyone else, they’re just better educated. Why can’t we have that here?
She’s calling both Becky and Dina kids I assume it’s because she’s a couple years older, or that they’re freshman while she’s a sophomore or junior. She’s being a jerk, but I don’t think she’s being ableist.
GreyICE
I agree she’s not being ablist, because if nothing else that would involve Carla remembering details about Dina.
Even if you’ve never met an actual English person in your life, you should still not be a complete fucking asshole and assume that someone acting English is being a fake English person.
Why would you fake being english also? I mean it’s not like it’d had the best rep out there or would sound adventurous?
Yumi
I’ve been accused of “faking being English” because my “accent” didn’t sound “convincing.”
Reader, I have a speech impediment.
(As for why one would fake it…well, there could be a number of reasons, but when I was accused of this was at that time when Doctor Who and Sherlock were really popular, so…maybe I was trying to be trendy? idk. Again, speech impediment.)
khn0
I’m sorry you got accused of liking tea, and even more sorry you got mocked for a speech impediment. These people were decidedly wrong on many levels.
Taffy
I promise this is in no way meant to diminish the seriousness, but “I’m sorry you got accused of liking tea” is an excellent and hilarious thing to say out of context.
Until you’re somewhere in your early/mid 20s, and especially when you’re an undergrad, your peers are “kids.” Or at least that was the case ten years ago.
Also, I suspect having met actual English people – probably, given her parents, actual posh English people – is what’s behind her assessment of Jason as “fake English guy.” Even though he is English, it’s pretty obvious he’s putting on airs.
I’m thinkin she’ll be standing there like a t. rex and umping when she sees Dotty, Joyce and friends coming back to deliver the crushing news.
Unfortunately either nothing will happen wrt to Joyce’s reaction OR Joyce will feel funny that they told everyone but tried to hide it from her specifically.
The absolute sass on this woman. She really isn’t making this easy for Walky, and I dig it like nobody’s business.
I have absolutely done exactly the same thing though, full-on arms behind the head, kick back and relax-type pose, just to see what happens. (Usually funny things, YMMV)
Flexible, more so in the left leg than the right though, which, after looking at past strips, went over my head that it’s probably because of the car accident.
o3o haha If you mean in my comic that was just my attempt to depict her actively moving her legs into that position. And y’know, keeping the pose from being too symmetrical and therefore boring.
cbwroses
I mention it cuz of you mentioned she’s flexible in your comment, but she actually tells Agatha (I think it’s her), during the stuck trash chute deal, that her right leg doesn’t lift as high as her left leg anymore, the left leg being the one she used to stomp the trash down the chute.
And it was only looking at it again recently that it occurred to me that it’s probably from injury during the accident and not simply from being a little heavier than she used to be.
Yotomoe
Ah, my bad then. I remembered the kick but forgot her mentioning her lack of flexibility. That’s a pretty neat correlation honestly. I wouldn’t have thought of that either, I just assumed she was out of practice.
My first guess is that we forge a golden ring into which we would pour his resentment, dreams, nightmares and ADHDemon powers, then wait for some creature to take it into misty mountains and become possessed by it ?
Sorry I’ve been watching Lord of Rings, did you want a serious answer?
Most, if not all, neurodivergents have unique blends of neurodivergent stripes, and some of those stripes can be categorized as ADHDemon, just ’cause “demon” is so much better than “disorder” — not “incorrect” functioning, just different, and also strange and wonderful powers.
Nova
Not what I asked, though. I’m ADHD, so I do understand how neurodivergency works.
I was asking because, if he’s not (or if you don’t know that he is), it’s not okay to just diagnose him because you think he might be.
I also don’t super appreciate the mention of “strange and wonderful powers” since that kind of thinking, in part, made it difficult for me to get help for most of my life. I think it’s worth considering all directions of possible fall out from mentioning neurodivergency only in positive terms when it really does have a severe effect on some people’s lives.
Nova
I know you’re ND as well, so I’m not going to police how you talk about your own experiences, but the application of it to people with ADHD as a whole is the part I’m a little shakier on.
To answer your first question, Willis himself said he suspects a really high likelihood of being neurodivergent of some kind, ADHD referring to the feedback he got from fans with it who pointed it out in Walky, a character modeled after himself.
But towards your main point, I do appreciate your sensitivity about it, very much so.
I was called “autistic” for much of my life, and that label ’caused me decades of abuse and infantilization and dehumanization from friends, family, teachers and so-called professionals who acted like what they were doing was compassion.
Knowing the pain of having hurtful assumptions made about me all the time, I definitely don’t want to do that to others.
In fact I really don’t say I’m ADHDemon anywhere but in the comments section, and I guess I really only do it because something that makes me so assured knowing people here who can relate to my experiences.
We have our powers, and we have our shortcomings. Our functioning isn’t more or less “correct” than any other. We’re just different, and we’re trying our best to thrive in a world that’s really badly structured for us.
If anything, I just wish that people would be more compelled to ask us about what our individual powers actually are and what we need help with.
Regalli
To my knowledge, Willis is not currently IDing as ADHD, and while I try not to actively use my weird selective memory powers to memorize tidbits of a creator whose work I follow’s personal life when I spot them on Twitter, I have seen fairly recently that he seems to be vaguely self-identifying as autistic, specifically. (I’m also trying to avoid Twitter when I can but the 9CL hatethreads are as ever captivating.)
Wellerman, I recognize you have trauma towards autism as a term specifically, but ADHD’s a clinical term too and there are plenty of people for whom ‘autistic’ is a term of community or pride – hi! – and some people might have trauma related to ADHD. (I claim it for myself as well, but it’s not uncommon for kids to get misdiagnosed with it rather than something else and medicated in ways that are… not great, in hindsight. Or at least it wasn’t uncommon when I was in elementary school.) Self-identification is important, especially when you are dealing with terms that are pathologized. If Willis wants to use autism for himself right now, that’s one definite term to be using. He could have ADHD in addition, I dunno, again I try not to ACTUALLY collect this knowledge, but it is a specific clinical term with a specific clinical meaning and ALL of them can be used as both a community-finder and a source of trauma depending on the individual person’s circumstances.
Our having so very very few terms for ourselves that aren’t pathologized is a different conversation, but honestly a neurodivergence can be a totally valid way of existing and STILL be a disability that’d make your life just that little bit harder even on a deserted island. Disability’s not a dirty word. We shouldn’t be defined exclusively by the medical model, but ultimately if my brain can’t make enough serotonin that’s a problem for me and medication is merited. If I can’t make myself get up to do something necessary like eat or go to the bathroom, or start doing something fun, because changing gears is oddly daunting, then yeah, it’s a disability. Doesn’t mean I want it gone, does mean I have to accommodate it somehow and would have to do so even in an ideal world. And I don’t like generic ‘neurodiversity’s tendency towards being used ONLY for the sensory/executive function/social cluster that contains ADHD, autism, and maybe a couple other subgroups. Schizophrenia and intellectual disabilities coincide with autism, too, but they frequently get left out of the conversation because they’re deemed even LESS palatable. That’s an issue on all fronts. But anyway, trying not to make it a rant, really don’t want to get drawn into a conversation here.
Very thorough, I feel relieved seeing you write all this.
On one hand, is it just me, or does ADHD just not seem to have the same kind of cultural baggage and pathologizing that happens to the “autism” label, at least in America?
ADHD doesn’t have it’s own equivalent of very offensive cultural stereotypes like Sheldon Cooper or Rain Man.
ADHD doesn’t have the equivalent of people on the internet going “autism screech” or “mildy autistic”.
ADHD doesn’t have an extremely powerful hategroup that claims to act on their behalf while using children as leverage in viciously manipulative ads and campaigns.
Personally, I like ADHDemon because for me it entails with it a sense of belonging and relating with others who have struggled in a world that’s not made for us anyway — kinda like a culture, within which I have an identity that’s finally my own, and where I’m not judged by the standards used to deem us “failures”.
Looking back, maybe I would have said “neurodivergent stripes” when referring to Willis, but I just jumped to ADHDemon it sounded cool to me at the moment (which ironically I can attribute to my ADHD)?
Re: neurodivergent categories, I guess I coined ADHDemon ’cause I also wanted a way to make at least that kind of neurodivergence more palatable? Besides that, we definitely need better ways of describing ourselves other than an oligopoly of categories we currently have.
ischemgeek
Being ADHD is both under and over diagnosed – by which I mean studies have found that about 38% of boys with ADHD and almost half of girls with it aren’t correctly diagnosed, while about 1/3 of those with an ADHD label don’t show a symptom pattern consistent with ADHD: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8385721/
It’s more commonly missed in girls because there’s still the myth that girls don’t get ADHD.
Nova
THIS was definitely my point. Thank you for being a great deal more articulate today than I could be, and for laying it out well.
ischemgeek
On the ADHD as disability front: I would love to be able to just… Decide I’m going to get ready for the day like non ADHD people do, rather than needing to get up 3.5 hours before I need to leave to get anywhere on time. That’d be great.
Or like, be able to notice and address mess before I have doom piles all over my place.
Or generally not have so much baggage around cleaning I probably should be in therapy just for cleaning trauma.
Or be able to get boring work tasks done even if the stars don’t align.
Or be able to judge my capacity and how long tasks will take as well as curb my novelty drive so I’m not CONSTANTLY loaded up with like 3 full time jobs worth of responsibility and then blamed for it because my boss takes advantage of my tendency to impulsively say yes and then blames me if I end up overloaded. But also doesn’t respond well if I point out I’m already overloaded.
I’d love to not have RSD so mild criticism doesn’t send me into a shame spiral for days.
I could go on.
Also, as someone who has both autism and ADHD, it’s not true that ADHD doesn’t have stigma. Yes the equivalent of A$ doesn’t exist but ppl with ADHD are about 30x more likely to be suicidal than the general population for a reason. That reason is stigma.
I’d love for people to not assume I’m lazy, dishonest or a drama llama for how my brain is configured. I’d like to be able to disclose at work without immediately having my responsibilities cut and basically lose the equivalent of 5 years of experience in the boss’s eyes (every time I have disclosed that’s happened so I don’t anymore) and seeing my wage get frozen for a few years and my reviews instantly drop from the date of disclosure. I’d love for people to stop acting like I can just willpower past how my brain works with sticker charts and organizational apps (FUCK sticker charts). I’d love to have the ability to put all my limited EF to work on my work and not also looking normal. I’d love not to rack up hundreds in late fees and tickets every year because I forget to pay shit that isn’t automatic. And when I do remember, I’d love to dispense with the condescending lecture from city hall on paying fines on time. I can go on here as well.
Like yes hyperfocus is cool, but ADHD is a disability, not a superpower, IMO.
Keulen
I personally prefer to use the label autistic to describe myself. Lots of people and organizations have negative views and misconceptions about autism, but the term is what I’ve been diagnosed with. I like the term neurodivergent, but it’s an umbrella term for a whole bunch of ways your brain can be different from typical. Autistic describes how my brain works.
In fact, I want to take this opportunity to get to know your unique stripes if you don’t mind me asking!!!
Can you tell me a bit more about your experiences with it, your hobbies and goals?
Nova
I’m answering here because Regalli did an excellent job of summing up most of my thoughts on the matter, particularly with regard to some people (like myself) not viewing ADHD as some magical power-bestowing force, but a source of trauma as well as a label that is being thrown around FAR too much at the moment by people not qualified or in a position to make that kind of diagnosis.
As for my own “stripes” I have no interest in further discussing them. I don’t know you, and as I’ve said I don’t see it as a magic power. It’s a thing that my brain does, for better or worse. I only mentioned it at all to point out that this complaint was coming from someone within the community rather than a white-knight with peripheral knowledge.
You didn’t ask me specifically, but I was reading replies and saw that the last thread was super long, so I’ll post this here!
I relate to a lot of what @ischemgeek said, but as for dealing with the ADHD label, I think “attention regulation disorder” might be more accurate than “attention deficit (hyperactivity) disorder” (I don’t *lack* attention, I’m just not great at organizing it). Brain-related sciences are relatively new, too, and the labeling may change.
You wrote that you prefer not to call it a “disorder” and that makes sense. For me, I like some things that come with my particular mental configuration, but a lot of the times my ADHD is a pain in the ass.
Discussion (331) - “Hatted”
The Wellerman
While Carla should chill with referring to Dina as a child,
It looks like we don’t have to worry about her telling Joyce, at least for now.
Also the possibility of her probably having seldom known a genuine English person in her life might tell us a lot about her upbringing.
Nathan
Maybe, but I’ve lived in two of the largest metropolitan areas in the U.S. my whole life and I can only recall actually getting to know two English people in that entire time. And one of them is a guy I saw at work maybe a dozen times ever.
Ray Radlein
I’ve mostly lived in fairly large metropolitan areas, and met several English people… when I attended a large state university in a college town! Scousers and Geordies and the occasional Public School Accent types, even
C.T. Phipps
Carla feels like she’s the female Walky as both she and he seem to default to only knowing about England through CS Lewis.
Walky making his “Turkish Delight” reference.
Needfuldoer
Come on now, their knowledge of the UK isn’t that narrow.
I’m sure Carla’s seen every episode of Top Gear and Walky has the Mr. Bean box set.
cbwroses
He is also aware of a certain person with a doctorate, a screwdriver, and a telephone booth.
Thag Simmons
Eh, she’s calling them both kids, and she is older than them both by like a year at least.
Nono
Might be two years in Becky’s case? Dina’s 19 now, and I think the rest of the freshmen are 18 unless they’ve had a birthday in the timeskip. So depending on birthdays, Carla might be 20/21.
Thag Simmons
It might be two years on both. I think she’s Ruth’s age and Ruth is 21.
Nono
Carla was still using a fake ID to buy beer early on in the strip, so it would just depend on if she’s had her birthday since.
Segnosaur
I am trying to remember the dialog… But did the strip say “Carla had a fake I’d” or just that someone in Sal’s regular group had an id that looked like it was “generated on a laser printer”. That means either Carla’s Id could be real.
thejeff
My fake ID doesn’t look like it was printed in the computer lab.
Marrow
Man, “Ruth is 21”. When I started reading Dumbing of Age I was younger than her and now I’m so much older lol
BTW criticizing Carla because she used the work “kids” seems like a useless exaggeration. It’s not like she said “stupid fucks” or true insults like those.
Azhrei Vep
To be fair to Carla as well, damn near every major character in this comic is a child. It’s pretty much just Leslie and Robin (depending on whether one considers her major) that aren’t.
True Survivor
I assume her choice to call Dian a kid comes from either
1) As a sort of self-absorbed sophomore, everyone younger than her is a “kid.” You remember how high school is right?
or 2) Carla, obviously not having a great grasp on who is who, just does heuristics and correlates height with age. I mean that’s how I know Tom Cruze is 14 and Michael Jordan is roughly 2 million years old.
The Wellerman
Inferring her age from her height like that is still just as bad in some ways, but whatever.
Re: High School — *shudder* I’m STILL trying to erase those god-awful memories from my host body. Bongo and a half.
Dean
Yes, everyone knows that you calculate age by cutting them in half and counting the rings.
Geneseepaws
If I recall correctly:
“The police didn’t think it was funny either.”
Ed Callahan
As someone who’s 67, anyone who’s 66 or under is a kid. Unless they’re under 30, then they’re toddlers.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Aknowledging the point about Dina’s justified anger over being infantilized, if we’re going to call out Carla here, it needs to be for generic ageism. She’s calling them both kids because they’re younger than her, not because of Dina’s stature or appearance.
Secondly, to the alt-text, obviously youtag them both, A-Doy(ce) ?
BarerMender
My (American) experience with the English is a first impression of unusual intelligence. Eventually I figure out they’re no smarter than anyone else, they’re just better educated. Why can’t we have that here?
RowenMorland
The British education system is often quite uneven as a postcode lottery and riddled with class inequality.
You sort of already do have that in the US.
GreyICE
Oh yes, because something about this arc says that Carla is considerate. It’s only the calling Dina a child bit that suggests she’s a jackass.
Norah
She’s calling both Becky and Dina kids I assume it’s because she’s a couple years older, or that they’re freshman while she’s a sophomore or junior. She’s being a jerk, but I don’t think she’s being ableist.
GreyICE
I agree she’s not being ablist, because if nothing else that would involve Carla remembering details about Dina.
Clif
What? Where did she call Dina a child?
Clif
Never mind. I see that you’re referring to kids. It’s a slangy colloquialism that doesn’t necessarily refer to age. All the cool kids use it.
Wraithy2773
Even if you’ve never met an actual English person in your life, you should still not be a complete fucking asshole and assume that someone acting English is being a fake English person.
khn0
Why would you fake being english also? I mean it’s not like it’d had the best rep out there or would sound adventurous?
Yumi
I’ve been accused of “faking being English” because my “accent” didn’t sound “convincing.”
Reader, I have a speech impediment.
(As for why one would fake it…well, there could be a number of reasons, but when I was accused of this was at that time when Doctor Who and Sherlock were really popular, so…maybe I was trying to be trendy? idk. Again, speech impediment.)
khn0
I’m sorry you got accused of liking tea, and even more sorry you got mocked for a speech impediment. These people were decidedly wrong on many levels.
Taffy
I promise this is in no way meant to diminish the seriousness, but “I’m sorry you got accused of liking tea” is an excellent and hilarious thing to say out of context.
Raen
Until you’re somewhere in your early/mid 20s, and especially when you’re an undergrad, your peers are “kids.” Or at least that was the case ten years ago.
Also, I suspect having met actual English people – probably, given her parents, actual posh English people – is what’s behind her assessment of Jason as “fake English guy.” Even though he is English, it’s pretty obvious he’s putting on airs.
Caro
Living in Florida, I think I’ve only encountered one genuine british person… my own father lmao
Ana Chronistic
Carla: YOU THERE! I MUST INFORM YOU THAT THE HATTED ONES HAVE FUCKED!
Dotty: yeah, I know
Carla: …I’VE BEEN ROBBED OF HILARITY D=<
Doctor_Who
Carla: AS YOU HAVE DEPRIVED ME, YOU MUST NOW PAY RESTITUTION. I DEMAND ONE LAUGH.
Dotty: That’s not how that wo-
Carla: TOO LATE!
(PIE!)
Clif
I thought it was inevitable that she consult the triangular smile girl on the best way to let Joyce (Dorothy) know without actually telling her.
Pies are simpler though.
Sirksome
I mean on one hand Jason totally failed as expected, but on the other that doesn’t even seem to matter, especially seeing as Joyce is off campus.
milu
and on yet another hand the entire premise of this subplot is exquisitely low-stakes anyway, so
jackiedu46k
I’m thinkin she’ll be standing there like a t. rex and umping when she sees Dotty, Joyce and friends coming back to deliver the crushing news.
Unfortunately either nothing will happen wrt to Joyce’s reaction OR Joyce will feel funny that they told everyone but tried to hide it from her specifically.
Ana Chronistic
The health clinic seems to be just barely on campus (and currently has a 2.1/5 star rating)
Yotomoe
https://i.imgur.com/j8uSFQj.png (NSFW)
I took a suggestion from Rose for this pose. Accidental Rhyme.
Sometimes it’s fun to remember Billie’s also kinda flexible.
https://imgur.com/a/9Ob1cy3(NSFW)
Yotomoe
https://imgur.com/a/9Ob1cy3 (NSFW)
Forgot the space.
The Wellerman
Love it Yoto! Specially that tongue bit in the second panel! ?
Also, those last two panels seem like authentic Dummiverse canon! ?
Rose by Any Other Name
**Squee!!**
Andy
I hear if getting it in deep is your thing (there’s a hockey joke in there), that’s a good way to do it
milu
hahaha so snarky
love it!
Taffy
The absolute sass on this woman. She really isn’t making this easy for Walky, and I dig it like nobody’s business.
I have absolutely done exactly the same thing though, full-on arms behind the head, kick back and relax-type pose, just to see what happens. (Usually funny things, YMMV)
cbwroses
Flexible, more so in the left leg than the right though, which, after looking at past strips, went over my head that it’s probably because of the car accident.
Yotomoe
o3o haha If you mean in my comic that was just my attempt to depict her actively moving her legs into that position. And y’know, keeping the pose from being too symmetrical and therefore boring.
cbwroses
I mention it cuz of you mentioned she’s flexible in your comment, but she actually tells Agatha (I think it’s her), during the stuck trash chute deal, that her right leg doesn’t lift as high as her left leg anymore, the left leg being the one she used to stomp the trash down the chute.
And it was only looking at it again recently that it occurred to me that it’s probably from injury during the accident and not simply from being a little heavier than she used to be.
Yotomoe
Ah, my bad then. I remembered the kick but forgot her mentioning her lack of flexibility. That’s a pretty neat correlation honestly. I wouldn’t have thought of that either, I just assumed she was out of practice.
Joe Moose
There is no way this will end well.
Yumi
It will end gloriously.
milu
in a hail of Carla.
Thag Simmons
Well, I mean, Dorothy already knows.
C.T. Phipps
I wish Rachel was a bigger part of this strip. How do we clone Willis and get him to do more comic strips?
The Wellerman
My first guess is that we forge a golden ring into which we would pour his resentment, dreams, nightmares and ADHDemon powers, then wait for some creature to take it into misty mountains and become possessed by it ?
Sorry I’ve been watching Lord of Rings, did you want a serious answer?
Nova
Does Willis have ADHD?
The Wellerman
Most, if not all, neurodivergents have unique blends of neurodivergent stripes, and some of those stripes can be categorized as ADHDemon, just ’cause “demon” is so much better than “disorder” — not “incorrect” functioning, just different, and also strange and wonderful powers.
Nova
Not what I asked, though. I’m ADHD, so I do understand how neurodivergency works.
I was asking because, if he’s not (or if you don’t know that he is), it’s not okay to just diagnose him because you think he might be.
I also don’t super appreciate the mention of “strange and wonderful powers” since that kind of thinking, in part, made it difficult for me to get help for most of my life. I think it’s worth considering all directions of possible fall out from mentioning neurodivergency only in positive terms when it really does have a severe effect on some people’s lives.
Nova
I know you’re ND as well, so I’m not going to police how you talk about your own experiences, but the application of it to people with ADHD as a whole is the part I’m a little shakier on.
The Wellerman
To answer your first question, Willis himself said he suspects a really high likelihood of being neurodivergent of some kind, ADHD referring to the feedback he got from fans with it who pointed it out in Walky, a character modeled after himself.
But towards your main point, I do appreciate your sensitivity about it, very much so.
I was called “autistic” for much of my life, and that label ’caused me decades of abuse and infantilization and dehumanization from friends, family, teachers and so-called professionals who acted like what they were doing was compassion.
Knowing the pain of having hurtful assumptions made about me all the time, I definitely don’t want to do that to others.
In fact I really don’t say I’m ADHDemon anywhere but in the comments section, and I guess I really only do it because something that makes me so assured knowing people here who can relate to my experiences.
We have our powers, and we have our shortcomings. Our functioning isn’t more or less “correct” than any other. We’re just different, and we’re trying our best to thrive in a world that’s really badly structured for us.
If anything, I just wish that people would be more compelled to ask us about what our individual powers actually are and what we need help with.
Regalli
To my knowledge, Willis is not currently IDing as ADHD, and while I try not to actively use my weird selective memory powers to memorize tidbits of a creator whose work I follow’s personal life when I spot them on Twitter, I have seen fairly recently that he seems to be vaguely self-identifying as autistic, specifically. (I’m also trying to avoid Twitter when I can but the 9CL hatethreads are as ever captivating.)
https://mobile.twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/1525965623032946688
Wellerman, I recognize you have trauma towards autism as a term specifically, but ADHD’s a clinical term too and there are plenty of people for whom ‘autistic’ is a term of community or pride – hi! – and some people might have trauma related to ADHD. (I claim it for myself as well, but it’s not uncommon for kids to get misdiagnosed with it rather than something else and medicated in ways that are… not great, in hindsight. Or at least it wasn’t uncommon when I was in elementary school.) Self-identification is important, especially when you are dealing with terms that are pathologized. If Willis wants to use autism for himself right now, that’s one definite term to be using. He could have ADHD in addition, I dunno, again I try not to ACTUALLY collect this knowledge, but it is a specific clinical term with a specific clinical meaning and ALL of them can be used as both a community-finder and a source of trauma depending on the individual person’s circumstances.
Our having so very very few terms for ourselves that aren’t pathologized is a different conversation, but honestly a neurodivergence can be a totally valid way of existing and STILL be a disability that’d make your life just that little bit harder even on a deserted island. Disability’s not a dirty word. We shouldn’t be defined exclusively by the medical model, but ultimately if my brain can’t make enough serotonin that’s a problem for me and medication is merited. If I can’t make myself get up to do something necessary like eat or go to the bathroom, or start doing something fun, because changing gears is oddly daunting, then yeah, it’s a disability. Doesn’t mean I want it gone, does mean I have to accommodate it somehow and would have to do so even in an ideal world. And I don’t like generic ‘neurodiversity’s tendency towards being used ONLY for the sensory/executive function/social cluster that contains ADHD, autism, and maybe a couple other subgroups. Schizophrenia and intellectual disabilities coincide with autism, too, but they frequently get left out of the conversation because they’re deemed even LESS palatable. That’s an issue on all fronts. But anyway, trying not to make it a rant, really don’t want to get drawn into a conversation here.
The Wellerman
Very thorough, I feel relieved seeing you write all this.
On one hand, is it just me, or does ADHD just not seem to have the same kind of cultural baggage and pathologizing that happens to the “autism” label, at least in America?
ADHD doesn’t have it’s own equivalent of very offensive cultural stereotypes like Sheldon Cooper or Rain Man.
ADHD doesn’t have the equivalent of people on the internet going “autism screech” or “mildy autistic”.
ADHD doesn’t have an extremely powerful hategroup that claims to act on their behalf while using children as leverage in viciously manipulative ads and campaigns.
Personally, I like ADHDemon because for me it entails with it a sense of belonging and relating with others who have struggled in a world that’s not made for us anyway — kinda like a culture, within which I have an identity that’s finally my own, and where I’m not judged by the standards used to deem us “failures”.
Looking back, maybe I would have said “neurodivergent stripes” when referring to Willis, but I just jumped to ADHDemon it sounded cool to me at the moment (which ironically I can attribute to my ADHD)?
Re: neurodivergent categories, I guess I coined ADHDemon ’cause I also wanted a way to make at least that kind of neurodivergence more palatable? Besides that, we definitely need better ways of describing ourselves other than an oligopoly of categories we currently have.
ischemgeek
Being ADHD is both under and over diagnosed – by which I mean studies have found that about 38% of boys with ADHD and almost half of girls with it aren’t correctly diagnosed, while about 1/3 of those with an ADHD label don’t show a symptom pattern consistent with ADHD: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8385721/
It’s more commonly missed in girls because there’s still the myth that girls don’t get ADHD.
Nova
THIS was definitely my point. Thank you for being a great deal more articulate today than I could be, and for laying it out well.
ischemgeek
On the ADHD as disability front: I would love to be able to just… Decide I’m going to get ready for the day like non ADHD people do, rather than needing to get up 3.5 hours before I need to leave to get anywhere on time. That’d be great.
Or like, be able to notice and address mess before I have doom piles all over my place.
Or generally not have so much baggage around cleaning I probably should be in therapy just for cleaning trauma.
Or be able to get boring work tasks done even if the stars don’t align.
Or be able to judge my capacity and how long tasks will take as well as curb my novelty drive so I’m not CONSTANTLY loaded up with like 3 full time jobs worth of responsibility and then blamed for it because my boss takes advantage of my tendency to impulsively say yes and then blames me if I end up overloaded. But also doesn’t respond well if I point out I’m already overloaded.
I’d love to not have RSD so mild criticism doesn’t send me into a shame spiral for days.
I could go on.
Also, as someone who has both autism and ADHD, it’s not true that ADHD doesn’t have stigma. Yes the equivalent of A$ doesn’t exist but ppl with ADHD are about 30x more likely to be suicidal than the general population for a reason. That reason is stigma.
I’d love for people to not assume I’m lazy, dishonest or a drama llama for how my brain is configured. I’d like to be able to disclose at work without immediately having my responsibilities cut and basically lose the equivalent of 5 years of experience in the boss’s eyes (every time I have disclosed that’s happened so I don’t anymore) and seeing my wage get frozen for a few years and my reviews instantly drop from the date of disclosure. I’d love for people to stop acting like I can just willpower past how my brain works with sticker charts and organizational apps (FUCK sticker charts). I’d love to have the ability to put all my limited EF to work on my work and not also looking normal. I’d love not to rack up hundreds in late fees and tickets every year because I forget to pay shit that isn’t automatic. And when I do remember, I’d love to dispense with the condescending lecture from city hall on paying fines on time. I can go on here as well.
Like yes hyperfocus is cool, but ADHD is a disability, not a superpower, IMO.
Keulen
I personally prefer to use the label autistic to describe myself. Lots of people and organizations have negative views and misconceptions about autism, but the term is what I’ve been diagnosed with. I like the term neurodivergent, but it’s an umbrella term for a whole bunch of ways your brain can be different from typical. Autistic describes how my brain works.
The Wellerman
In fact, I want to take this opportunity to get to know your unique stripes if you don’t mind me asking!!!
Can you tell me a bit more about your experiences with it, your hobbies and goals?
Nova
I’m answering here because Regalli did an excellent job of summing up most of my thoughts on the matter, particularly with regard to some people (like myself) not viewing ADHD as some magical power-bestowing force, but a source of trauma as well as a label that is being thrown around FAR too much at the moment by people not qualified or in a position to make that kind of diagnosis.
As for my own “stripes” I have no interest in further discussing them. I don’t know you, and as I’ve said I don’t see it as a magic power. It’s a thing that my brain does, for better or worse. I only mentioned it at all to point out that this complaint was coming from someone within the community rather than a white-knight with peripheral knowledge.
epitome of incomprehensibility
You didn’t ask me specifically, but I was reading replies and saw that the last thread was super long, so I’ll post this here!
I relate to a lot of what @ischemgeek said, but as for dealing with the ADHD label, I think “attention regulation disorder” might be more accurate than “attention deficit (hyperactivity) disorder” (I don’t *lack* attention, I’m just not great at organizing it). Brain-related sciences are relatively new, too, and the labeling may change.
You wrote that you prefer not to call it a “disorder” and that makes sense. For me, I like some things that come with my particular mental configuration, but a lot of the times my ADHD is a pain in the ass.