My sister’s teased me in the past about having a beard like Father Christmas (so have my colleagues). My response – put together a full Father Christmas cosplay! ^^
I wished Jocelyne came out to Hank, but now I’m see how she is relieved. Like she’s feeling it’s not a good idea to risk it.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems Jocelyne is the weakest point of thehe rope, instead Joyce.
Her sister made a solid for her.
Yeah, she wasn’t ready yet. And she may yet be outed, as she says, but it still should be her choice. And I love that Joyce was able to see that and act in time.
Totally support Jocelyne coming out at a time of her choosing. I do still wish there was some indication that she and her dad had actually discussed the whole protest thing, peer-to-peer, but… yeah.
As an elder sibling, I can assure you, we do this shit out of love. And spite.
Mostly love though, like 85%. We just all have vivid memories of you younger sibs getting away with shit we never did because the parents weren’t as burned out during our go. 15% spite is perfectly reasonable.
Yeah, Carol got progressively worse over the years.
There’s a reason Jordan (next oldest sibling after Joyce) went no-contact.
Needfuldoer
*next-youngest sibling
John
Jocelyne
Jordan
Joyce
Jallorn
As a youngest child- that seems to be the way. In some ways, the youngest benefits from their parents having more experience being parents, in other ways they suffer from their parents knowing more ways things can go wrong and being more fearful and protective.
I´m just beginning to figure out – in my late fourties, mind you – that my older sis was a saint and broke all the ground for me.
She had to fight for everything, while our parents still where full of pedagogic vigour and ideals.
When I came along? My mom was already sick, my dad up to his ears in work and I basically skated through every obstacle she had
fought through. Allowance, home-by-times, solo holiday trips, Motorcycle licese, you name it. All tracks where already comfortably broken in for me.
Dorothy is a “plan fifteen steps ahead” sort of person, so in that instant she’s calculating the odds that she ends up marrying into this family and having Jocelyn as a big sister for the rest of her life.
Y’know. I was honestly holding out hope that maybe Jocelyne would be a bit annoyed at Joyce for more or less interrupting what could’ve been her best chance at coming out to her father. Like maybe Joyce meant well but Jocelyne actually feels let down she’s been prevented from coming out to her father and has more or less been pushed to remain closeted. If anything this may have BEEN one of the best chances to do it on her “own terms”
Hey, is there a place you put your sketches? ‘Cause I don’t always look at the comment section but I know in the past you’ve thrown stuff on imgur, but that’s about it.
I haven’t been posting to it in a while, but I compiled a lotta my art on imgchest https://imgchest.com/p/ne7bw5ovn75
Some of it has aged POORLY but in the name of transparency I put everything I’ve ever drawn here. I apologize for anything past yoto did that may be problematic. Also Future yoto. Not current yoto though. He’s perfect.
There would be no way, because Joss was attempting to confess to take the bullet for Joyce when she didn’t even want to see her dad that day, she was keeping a low profile and deserves to be able to handle these confessions in her own time. She has no reason to believe her dad would take it well, have you looked at the real world lately? “Trans” has replaced “gay” in the Christian extremist community for the terrible awful thing that can happen to your child that requires drastic measures like conversion therapy or disowning or even murder. People want someone to get mad at Joyce, for anything, because her behaviour with these relationships has seemed childish and inconsiderate. Yes, an 18 year old who has barely even dated before with a heavily sheltered past makes dumbass mistakes when it comes to how to treat others. But if y’all keep reading this comic through the lens of your personal distaste over the crowning moment of this arc, you are never going to be satisfied because it is clear that the author along with many of us in the reader base do not share your distaste.
Real barely-adults fuck up, they fuck up a lot and yet they’re still human and still deserve supportive siblings and understanding friends, even when they kiss someone who isn’t their boyfriend.
Yeah, for me, this has all been pretty in character for Joyce – someone who has consistently shown that her heart’s in the right place, but she just doesn’t know how to properly handle these situations. In part because of inexperience, in part because of religious indoctrination, and in part because of her own autism. I think she’s a great character, and has been handling things the way that I would expect her to – not perfectly, but with a genuine hope of doing the right thing.
That said, if I was in Jocelyne’s shoes, I would have been extremely put out with Joyce and how she handled the situation. But I’m not in Jocelyne’s shoes, and so I can enjoy seeing Joyce’s antics as she bumbles her way through this granted rather dicey situation. It’s entertaining if nothing else, and fully in character for her and her story arc thus far.
@eskimolos – Very well said. I think it’s wild that some people want Jocelyne to be angry at her sister, as opposed to glad that everything worked out.
I don’t think Jocelyne was ready to out herself to her father. I think she was only about to come out in that moment because she believed that Joyce desperately needed protection.
Note her words right as she was about to out herself “I’m afraid I’m suddenly no longer the most vulnerable.”
I also vaguely recall her advice to (I think) Becky a long time ago, which was something to the effect of “Do what you need to keep yourself within access to resources.”
Jocelyne had decided that Joyce was at risk of being cut off from her father’s tuition payments and other support during her Freshman year of college. So she was prepared to sacrifice herself as a distraction from the kiss photos. It’s probably not how she wanted things to go.
On top of what Justin said, I think it’s worth remembering that Jocelyne likely made that decision in a manner of minutes. She didn’t warn Joyce ahead of time, so she likely didn’t know about the photo, and she definitely didn’t know about Hank showing up. That means that Jocelyne had to make that decision in the window of time between Hank showing up and him seeing her in the lobby. I think a lot of people are misinterpreting it because Jocelyne seemed calm in the moment, but it was definitely an impulse decision on her part, really just made as a sacrifice for her sister.
Good grief. If I had a dollar for every time “projection” gets tossed around as an accusation in these comments, I’d have a lot of money.
Like $300-400 at least.
Yotomoe
Yeah wasn’t really sure how to respond without sounding mad so I decided not to.
Donovan
Probably good call, that was a little weird
GreyICE
That’s probably low by an order of magnitude.
Falcon
I’m not trying to be mean about it. Kinda like what Li says, we’re all prone to projection at some point or other. Me saying that the evidence is overwhelming and that someone who is still saying the opposite is projecting doesn’t mean “you suck, crawl in a hole and never speak again.” I mean exactly what the words mean. My hope is to prompt some form of insight, not to insult.
Li
Point of order: we are ALL projecting, and it needn’t be an accusation. This is a story, after all, not real people talking to us about their real lives, where projecting would be rude.
And I mean, none of us can really help bringing the context of our own lives to a story. Who else’s experience are we meant to be bringing to our reading, and how?
Like, yes, a certain flavor of literature criticism calls for trying to assume other viewpoints, and that’s an important skill for critical thinking, but it’s certainly not the only valid way of reading a text.
TL;DR: I technically agree with Falcon in that I don’t think Jocelyne has actually seemed like she wanted to come out, and that folks who are upset on her behalf are upset generally because they’d feel differently in her position — or, fully valid, because they want Joyce to be told off (generally) and they keep getting denied that.
But also we all project. We project all the time. It shouldn’t be said as an insult, that’s an extremely glass house to be throwing rocks from. :/
Falcon
Sure. Lots of cookie cutter phrases are overused. The evidence remains overwhelming that Jocelyn doesn’t want to come out at this exact moment. I’ve been frustrated to see people shitting on Joyce for protecting her sister too because of their projection of themselves onto Jocelyn, and I’ve seen that way too often too.
She basically spelled out that she was doing it to take heat off Jouce, that’s very much not doing on her own terms, that’s putting yourself in possibly harm’s way because you fell you have to.
I would suspect so, as Becky seems to have had a crush on Joyce for a long time and they seem pretty intuitive while having not an close relationship but strong report with Becky. However, I also know they are a somewhat older sibling, so I am not sure how much of Becky and Joyce’s teenage years they were around for.
362 thoughts on “Terms”
NGPZ
LMFAO IM DEAD XD
Jocelyne you are the best :’)
Embe13
agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
full on belly laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my siblings would be teasing me for looking like a santa ad
DJTsurugi
I just laughed so hard it physically hurt! ~<3
Yet_One_More_Idiot
My sister’s teased me in the past about having a beard like Father Christmas (so have my colleagues). My response – put together a full Father Christmas cosplay! ^^
Makkabee
GOOD ANSWER!
anon
lol she should repeat the ‘getting wrecked’ line she said to carla too
Badger
Came here to say this. She’s amazeballs.
EpochFlame
Jocelyn is a treasure.
Jo_cubstar
Jocelyn is the best
Amós Batista
I wished Jocelyne came out to Hank, but now I’m see how she is relieved. Like she’s feeling it’s not a good idea to risk it.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems Jocelyne is the weakest point of thehe rope, instead Joyce.
Her sister made a solid for her.
Michelle J Caboose
Yeah, she wasn’t ready yet. And she may yet be outed, as she says, but it still should be her choice. And I love that Joyce was able to see that and act in time.
Achallenger
Making her own destiny etc
Acher4
+++
sickolesbian
but uhhhhh not wanting to come out as trans doesn’t make you a weak link?
Freemage
Totally support Jocelyne coming out at a time of her choosing. I do still wish there was some indication that she and her dad had actually discussed the whole protest thing, peer-to-peer, but… yeah.
Embe13
i think amos is referring to the family connections rope, and that jocylin is the sibling currently most likely to be cut off
Amós Batista
this, all of this
mindbleach
In so many ways – she knows what she’s about.
Doctor_Who
As an elder sibling, I can assure you, we do this shit out of love. And spite.
Mostly love though, like 85%. We just all have vivid memories of you younger sibs getting away with shit we never did because the parents weren’t as burned out during our go. 15% spite is perfectly reasonable.
Needfuldoer
Sometimes 20-25% spite.
GreyICE
In this case given the religion, it seems Joyce had the strictest upbringing.
Needfuldoer
Yeah, Carol got progressively worse over the years.
There’s a reason Jordan (next oldest sibling after Joyce) went no-contact.
Needfuldoer
*next-youngest sibling
John
Jocelyne
Jordan
Joyce
Jallorn
As a youngest child- that seems to be the way. In some ways, the youngest benefits from their parents having more experience being parents, in other ways they suffer from their parents knowing more ways things can go wrong and being more fearful and protective.
ResRam
I´m just beginning to figure out – in my late fourties, mind you – that my older sis was a saint and broke all the ground for me.
She had to fight for everything, while our parents still where full of pedagogic vigour and ideals.
When I came along? My mom was already sick, my dad up to his ears in work and I basically skated through every obstacle she had
fought through. Allowance, home-by-times, solo holiday trips, Motorcycle licese, you name it. All tracks where already comfortably broken in for me.
And she never let me feel it.
Snoopy
That is an older sibling play that I respect immensely. As both an older AND a younger sibling, hell yeah. Well done Jocelyn!
Dafydd
I love how Dorothy is every bit as turned on by that statement as Joyce is embarrassed. Gonna be a fun dynamic having them be girlfriends
Doctor_Who
Dorothy is a “plan fifteen steps ahead” sort of person, so in that instant she’s calculating the odds that she ends up marrying into this family and having Jocelyn as a big sister for the rest of her life.
Sharizard
Personally i think the whole thing just BSOD’d her brain, but i could accept this as an alternative.
Alongcameaspider
Hank is gone so Jocelyne can let her guard down, therefore it is time to be an annoying older sister
Taigan
I love Jocelyn SO much! ❤️
RASSILONTDAVROS
Step aside Becky, the real Chaotic Good has arrived
Yotomoe
Y’know. I was honestly holding out hope that maybe Jocelyne would be a bit annoyed at Joyce for more or less interrupting what could’ve been her best chance at coming out to her father. Like maybe Joyce meant well but Jocelyne actually feels let down she’s been prevented from coming out to her father and has more or less been pushed to remain closeted. If anything this may have BEEN one of the best chances to do it on her “own terms”
DorJoJoe
Hey, is there a place you put your sketches? ‘Cause I don’t always look at the comment section but I know in the past you’ve thrown stuff on imgur, but that’s about it.
Yotomoe
I haven’t been posting to it in a while, but I compiled a lotta my art on imgchest
https://imgchest.com/p/ne7bw5ovn75
Some of it has aged POORLY but in the name of transparency I put everything I’ve ever drawn here. I apologize for anything past yoto did that may be problematic. Also Future yoto. Not current yoto though. He’s perfect.
Clif
Indeed.
Dara
so
many
files
😀
Steamweed
Well there went 10 minutes of chortling and outloud laughing. 😀
Sharizard
The spawn of Faz and Dina… had me chuckling like crazy.
And the Joyce with blood splatter one.
Still going through them…
Amós Batista
thank you, again
Donovan
Alas
Michelle J Caboose
It might have been a good *time*, but not a good *place*, in the middle of the dorm hallway, with an audience.
Jocelyne would probably feel more comfortable having that discussion with Hank in private, rather than in public.
Serendipity
Just going to put the idea out there that Joyce knows her sister better than we do.
eskimolos
There would be no way, because Joss was attempting to confess to take the bullet for Joyce when she didn’t even want to see her dad that day, she was keeping a low profile and deserves to be able to handle these confessions in her own time. She has no reason to believe her dad would take it well, have you looked at the real world lately? “Trans” has replaced “gay” in the Christian extremist community for the terrible awful thing that can happen to your child that requires drastic measures like conversion therapy or disowning or even murder. People want someone to get mad at Joyce, for anything, because her behaviour with these relationships has seemed childish and inconsiderate. Yes, an 18 year old who has barely even dated before with a heavily sheltered past makes dumbass mistakes when it comes to how to treat others. But if y’all keep reading this comic through the lens of your personal distaste over the crowning moment of this arc, you are never going to be satisfied because it is clear that the author along with many of us in the reader base do not share your distaste.
Real barely-adults fuck up, they fuck up a lot and yet they’re still human and still deserve supportive siblings and understanding friends, even when they kiss someone who isn’t their boyfriend.
Myra V
Yeah, for me, this has all been pretty in character for Joyce – someone who has consistently shown that her heart’s in the right place, but she just doesn’t know how to properly handle these situations. In part because of inexperience, in part because of religious indoctrination, and in part because of her own autism. I think she’s a great character, and has been handling things the way that I would expect her to – not perfectly, but with a genuine hope of doing the right thing.
That said, if I was in Jocelyne’s shoes, I would have been extremely put out with Joyce and how she handled the situation. But I’m not in Jocelyne’s shoes, and so I can enjoy seeing Joyce’s antics as she bumbles her way through this granted rather dicey situation. It’s entertaining if nothing else, and fully in character for her and her story arc thus far.
Astariel
@eskimolos – Very well said. I think it’s wild that some people want Jocelyne to be angry at her sister, as opposed to glad that everything worked out.
justin8448
I don’t think Jocelyne was ready to out herself to her father. I think she was only about to come out in that moment because she believed that Joyce desperately needed protection.
Note her words right as she was about to out herself “I’m afraid I’m suddenly no longer the most vulnerable.”
I also vaguely recall her advice to (I think) Becky a long time ago, which was something to the effect of “Do what you need to keep yourself within access to resources.”
Jocelyne had decided that Joyce was at risk of being cut off from her father’s tuition payments and other support during her Freshman year of college. So she was prepared to sacrifice herself as a distraction from the kiss photos. It’s probably not how she wanted things to go.
Yotomoe
Yeah that’s fair.
Envy
On top of what Justin said, I think it’s worth remembering that Jocelyne likely made that decision in a manner of minutes. She didn’t warn Joyce ahead of time, so she likely didn’t know about the photo, and she definitely didn’t know about Hank showing up. That means that Jocelyne had to make that decision in the window of time between Hank showing up and him seeing her in the lobby. I think a lot of people are misinterpreting it because Jocelyne seemed calm in the moment, but it was definitely an impulse decision on her part, really just made as a sacrifice for her sister.
Falcon
Given the overwhelming evidence before you, such emotions concerning Jocelyne should clearly be projection at this point.
Jon
Good grief. If I had a dollar for every time “projection” gets tossed around as an accusation in these comments, I’d have a lot of money.
Like $300-400 at least.
Yotomoe
Yeah wasn’t really sure how to respond without sounding mad so I decided not to.
Donovan
Probably good call, that was a little weird
GreyICE
That’s probably low by an order of magnitude.
Falcon
I’m not trying to be mean about it. Kinda like what Li says, we’re all prone to projection at some point or other. Me saying that the evidence is overwhelming and that someone who is still saying the opposite is projecting doesn’t mean “you suck, crawl in a hole and never speak again.” I mean exactly what the words mean. My hope is to prompt some form of insight, not to insult.
Li
Point of order: we are ALL projecting, and it needn’t be an accusation. This is a story, after all, not real people talking to us about their real lives, where projecting would be rude.
And I mean, none of us can really help bringing the context of our own lives to a story. Who else’s experience are we meant to be bringing to our reading, and how?
Like, yes, a certain flavor of literature criticism calls for trying to assume other viewpoints, and that’s an important skill for critical thinking, but it’s certainly not the only valid way of reading a text.
TL;DR: I technically agree with Falcon in that I don’t think Jocelyne has actually seemed like she wanted to come out, and that folks who are upset on her behalf are upset generally because they’d feel differently in her position — or, fully valid, because they want Joyce to be told off (generally) and they keep getting denied that.
But also we all project. We project all the time. It shouldn’t be said as an insult, that’s an extremely glass house to be throwing rocks from. :/
Falcon
Sure. Lots of cookie cutter phrases are overused. The evidence remains overwhelming that Jocelyn doesn’t want to come out at this exact moment. I’ve been frustrated to see people shitting on Joyce for protecting her sister too because of their projection of themselves onto Jocelyn, and I’ve seen that way too often too.
biomanzilla
The minute Hank gets home, Jocelyne is going to call him, say “Hey dad, I’m trans” and then immediately hang up.
The Queer Agenda [frog memes]
Perfect, he just needs to get in the “hey trans, I’m dad,” joke before she hangs up. Then after the conversation is over, “wait, what?”
nadamás
She basically spelled out that she was doing it to take heat off Jouce, that’s very much not doing on her own terms, that’s putting yourself in possibly harm’s way because you fell you have to.
TheCruisiest
Joyce an Jocelyne were doing fundamentally the same thing. There isn’t any reason to be mad at one and not the other in this situation.
Li
Pfffft. Big sibs gonna big sib, regardless of gender.
DorJoJoe
Brown sisters still qt
Nono
I just realised that a very different mental image came to mind with the phrase “Brown sisters”.
biomanzilla
They’re the whitest Brown sisters ever.
Blibdoolpoolp
Staying true to annoying big-sib energy. (spoken as someone without any big-sibs)
Bryy
Please do not make Joyce’s first time traumatic, oh Willis God.
Jeff K!
According to her definition of “first time”, it wasn’t.
Steamweed
Yeah, she’s had sex now several times. Totally a worldly woman! 😀
Nono
I wonder if Jocelyne knows about Becky’s crush on Joyce.
True Survivor
I would suspect so, as Becky seems to have had a crush on Joyce for a long time and they seem pretty intuitive while having not an close relationship but strong report with Becky. However, I also know they are a somewhat older sibling, so I am not sure how much of Becky and Joyce’s teenage years they were around for.