I like to think it takes so long because Joyce’s mind still runs with old timey film tech. A little Joyce has to go in and unspool the film before cutting out a section and carefully pasting it back together.
As someone with a near eidetic memory (except for spelling, ’cause dyslexic [yes, related]), and surrounded by OCD types… I so wish I had this, and so glad I don’t.
I want to forget those 30 or 40 (or more) events that my brain keeps replaying at random moments. And yet, I can’t understand how so many people can forget or mix up events just a couple of years (decades) ago.
It is because those events hurt or or is something the brain wants to avoid happening again, so the brain keeps them around so it doesn’t get hurt again. Next time a memory comes up, how this next bit goes varies, but basically tell yourself this isn’t likely to happen again and try to back off the pain of it.
Definitely depends on the person (speaking only from my own POV as a trans person). I have a lot of coworkers who are trying but still slip up often. It’s general the older people who have memory problems. While it’s annoying, I also understand that having a bad memory isn’t the same as doing it out of malice.
Dana W
I cured my mother. After I had surgery I went to see her in Arizona, Took a long hot bath, got out of the bath and started walking around the house naked. She kept going “put on some clothes!” I told her “why? just us girls” She got really freaked and said “PLEASE!” I told her “can we get my name, sex and gender right?” she said “Anything just put some clothes back on” the few times she started to slip up I just started taking my shirt off. Fixed that stuff right up. 🙂
Might also depend on how often they are with you and how much the habit got ingrained. If it is someone that used to see you a lot before but now only does during the holidays or a very rare phone call (birthday or something), I would expect it to take longer than someone you see every week or day. Since Joyce spent evey day with Jocelyne being her brother growing up, that is a lot of years to build up that habit, especially since they aren’t living together anymore. One food method might be to have a conversation with Joe about childhood stories of herself and Jocelyne eveyday until the correct terms become a habit. It would be better than talking directly to Jocelyne since the you doesn’t have a gender and you don’t commonly use someone’s name in a conversation except at the very start.
I also think that it makes a difference how flustered you are too. Joyce’s brain is focused on Dina and her sister being acquainted enough to share secrets, so it defaults without thinking to what she has called her sister for all of her life until now.
I dunno, I think it still depends. I’m a trans person and am usually great at properly gendering people all of the time, but there are moments where I’ll slip up even if I’ve always gotten it right before.
My mom used to slip up all the time misgendering me, but now she gets it right 98% of the time, but there are still times when she might get it wrong. It’s clearly not out of malice, it’s just an honest mistake.
I feel like if it’s clear someone’s not doing it on purpose and is genuinely trying their best and improving over time, it’s not too big a deal. Even if it’s still uncomfortable for me, it’d be even more uncomfortable to make a big deal about it when someone’s trying their best.
moon
yeah i usually give grace to my relatives who’ve been calling me different stuff for 20+ years lol im just happy they support me at all
I had a coworker that didn’t change their name when they transitioned and I always had to put effort into getting their pronouns correct when they came up in conversation (but not when they were standing there in person). If I had gotten distracted I could have easily slipped up even 6 months later. I believe they did change their name but only after quitting the job, so I never got the chance to see if that made a difference to my brain.
I find the time it takes me to get the groove is related to how long I’ve known someone.
Someone can be at the very start of their transition and still boy-moding but if I’ve just met them it’ll click right away. If I’ve known someone a long time I need to practice a lot more (I’ll literally practice talking to myself about memories I have together).
It’s harder to incorporate new info if I beat myself up (go into freeze mode like Joyce) than it is if I own that I’ll make mistakes while I’m processing.
I’ve found that remembering their new name can be hard if it’s someone you’ve known for long, but the actual gendering goes pretty quick.
I can’t quote it directly, but there was a tumblr post that put it in words so well, with that you have to recontextualize your entire memory of the person. It’s not “when they were a boy/girl”, it’s just “before New Name transitioned”. As long as you’re stuck in seeing them as having had the wrong gender at one point, you will continue to slip up.
Ololo-518
At least in English. You have to worry only about speaking in third person.
In other languages though…
(My friend came out as a boy, and my brain was “okay. We change verb forms for masculine now. Okay. We do that for everyone!”, so I had to look out and not use masculine forms for myself…
Given a pass by the commenters, sure. But some of us respond to these mistakes with 20 lashes of self-flagellation and frankly it kinda helps with not doing it again, so…
It is way easier for me to not misgender someone I’ve met post transition (in fact I’ve never misgendered someone I met post transition) rather than someone whose transition I’ve been through. For someone who has transitioned twice I’ve even gone through the pronouns in the order I’ve been introduced. Habits are really hard to break and my agender lack of understanding of gender doesn’t help.
Joyce would still be at the point where she has to mentally correct herself given she’s only just learned this today. So the slip up when she’s not really thinking and just reacting makes sense.
What’s important now is how she handles the error.
Honestly I sympathize with this. If you get used to referring to somebody a certain way it can take time to reprogram. And it feels awful to slip up. But the solution is not to pretend you didn’t make the mistake Joyce, geez!
Seriously. I get that it’s well-intentioned–and it’s definitely preferable to the transphobic assholes–but after a while, it’s exhausting trying to manage other people’s guilt. Especially when some of them make it all about their feelings instead of yours. A quick self-correction is preferable
Sirksome
It’s an interesting debate because misgendering does happen but the line between honest mistake and bad faith is so thin, as well as processing guilt or apologizing too much. It’s just so easy for transphobes to take advantage at every aspect of the interaction. How does it feel when a loved one vs a stranger misgenders? What if it keeps happening? Is it okay if it’s an honest mistake, how do you decide when it’s too much? I don’t think we’ve really found an elegant solution yet.
Oh definitely fair. I would never pull some apology barrage nonsense, past a certain point you’re clearly just doing that for your own benefit. I remember the one time I got called out for slipping up I just said sorry one time and made sure it was as genuine as I could make it.
…And then I agonized over it for weeks in private. Which might not have been the healthiest way to do things but you know what? The next time I heard her deadname (she was really slow to update her caller ID for some reason) I had reprogrammed myself so effectively I literally didn’t know who was being referred to. So clearly agonizing over your mistakes is the best way to go about things!
Shade
Not that it happens much, but when it does my default is to say the correct pronoun and say sorry just the one time after the mistake. I think that’s reasonable, I haven’t had any issues at least.
TIL a new word that I have definitely engaged in. u_u
BarerMender
“Until” is Johnny-come-lately. “Till” goes back to Old English.Til or ’til is a misapprehension of English teachers
BarerMender
Oops, left out a part. “Until” only goes back to the 14th century.
Nymph
That’s not the word they were using at all. TIL is an abbreviation of Today I Learned.
butting
Ahhhh but THAT one goes right back to the Venerable Bede, who recounts how it was boosted from Old Gaelic by Saxon invaders. A random fact brought to you to celebrate The Internet Never Lies Day 2024.
Matthew Davis
Wouldn’t it be Brythonic at that point? Not that Bede would call it that, but he wouldn’t call it Old Gaelic either.
And yes, this is me Missing the Point.
M!a
The term goes back to the Pedantic Wars between Turkey and Greece. Frozen Turkeys were cooked in boiling Greece and the loss of life was catastrophic. Sadly, the act kept repeating throughout the period because Hold My Beer.
Needfuldoer
“Till” can also be a cash register or point-of-sale machine!
If that was the only thing she did then that’s one thing but according to Joe she’s apparently now actively trying to forget she even made the mistake at all by purging her memory… that doesn’t sound really healthy.
some earthlings seem to try to force making it more natural for themselves by basically gaslighting themselves into thinking it was always this way for them to begin with, to varying degrees of efficacy
198 thoughts on “Can’t believe”
Ana Chronistic
“MAYBE IF I FREAK AND BLURT OUT THE RIGHT THING LOUDLY ENOUGH IT WILL OVERWRITE THE ERROR”
EtchJetty
THE PROFILE PHOTO PROPHECY HAS BEEN MET
IntangibleMatter
ALL HAIL, ANA BECOMES CHRONISTIC ONCE AGAIN FOR A BRIEF MOMENT
NGPZ
the strip comes first?
what’s it gonna be
a rock paper scissors and a
ONE TWO THREE !!! XD
Lysbeth
SHIRLEY CHRONISTIC IS BORN
Proxiehunter
Don’t call her Surely.
Michael Steamweed
The time traveler has arrived, as it has been foretold.
TrueVCU
SYSTEM ERROR MEMORY REFORMATTING IN PROGRESS 10% COMPLETE
True Survivor
I like to think it takes so long because Joyce’s mind still runs with old timey film tech. A little Joyce has to go in and unspool the film before cutting out a section and carefully pasting it back together.
jeffepp
Wearing an old-timey straw hat, a vertical striped red and white vest, and a very fake mustache. To banjo music.
Dara
Hammer dulcimer music.
Chris
Plus those arm thingies. You know, garters for biceps.
Michael Steamweed
Gotta keep the shirt sleeves from sliding down and covering up the hands.
Mr D
My work uniform has those because they’re too cheap to give us winter and summer shirts!
Nathan
My parents used a pair of those as their engagement rings
Needfuldoer
Ragtime piano.
Mark
Or draw over each frame with a Sharpie?
NGPZ
at least she didn’t BSOD this time XD
perhaps Dina can give her some pro tips? ^^
*plays “reconstruct” by Photay on hacked muzak*
Steampunkette
At least she’s not throwing herself at Jocelyne’s feet to apologize and lament her failure and how she’s a bad sister and will get it right forever…
Steampunkette
Ohdip. I got Sal? Finally, I’m cool!
Kyrik Michalowski
Congratulations!
Kim
Congrats!✨?
Kim
Woops! Accidentally reported this comment ?. Sorry! (Missclicked)
Doctor_Who
Joyce mentally edits out all moments where she makes a mistake?
So for her this comic progresses in real time, then.
jeffepp
As someone with a near eidetic memory (except for spelling, ’cause dyslexic [yes, related]), and surrounded by OCD types… I so wish I had this, and so glad I don’t.
I want to forget those 30 or 40 (or more) events that my brain keeps replaying at random moments. And yet, I can’t understand how so many people can forget or mix up events just a couple of years (decades) ago.
Andy
It is because those events hurt or or is something the brain wants to avoid happening again, so the brain keeps them around so it doesn’t get hurt again. Next time a memory comes up, how this next bit goes varies, but basically tell yourself this isn’t likely to happen again and try to back off the pain of it.
NGPZ
i feel this so hard
is one of the reasons so glad I discovered a med regime which has proven at all effective T_T
Michael Steamweed
Most neurotypical types are pretty dang good at self-editing memories, given time. Mebbe a bit more difficult for neurodiverse types.
Nono
HURR HURR HURR
M!a
Oh dammit you beat me to it.
Of course I’m five hours late so I can’t really complain.
[*mumble grumble raggum fraggum*]
KM
I kinda feel like Joyce can be given a pass here on the misgendering. Like it’s been minutes at most?
DailyBrad
Yeah, nonbinary here, and I would not be offended either as a reader or as Jocelyn. Give her brain a bit to compile here.
Dana W
From us binary t folks its really irritating It annoys me as much now as it did in 2000.
Dana W
My view was 90 days, anything after that and you are just being a dick.
ian livs
Definitely depends on the person (speaking only from my own POV as a trans person). I have a lot of coworkers who are trying but still slip up often. It’s general the older people who have memory problems. While it’s annoying, I also understand that having a bad memory isn’t the same as doing it out of malice.
Dana W
I cured my mother. After I had surgery I went to see her in Arizona, Took a long hot bath, got out of the bath and started walking around the house naked. She kept going “put on some clothes!” I told her “why? just us girls” She got really freaked and said “PLEASE!” I told her “can we get my name, sex and gender right?” she said “Anything just put some clothes back on” the few times she started to slip up I just started taking my shirt off. Fixed that stuff right up. 🙂
Hroethvitnir
Incredible work
Adept
Positively Pavlovian Dana W.
Dana W
Sometimes you work with what you have.
Kimi
Might also depend on how often they are with you and how much the habit got ingrained. If it is someone that used to see you a lot before but now only does during the holidays or a very rare phone call (birthday or something), I would expect it to take longer than someone you see every week or day. Since Joyce spent evey day with Jocelyne being her brother growing up, that is a lot of years to build up that habit, especially since they aren’t living together anymore. One food method might be to have a conversation with Joe about childhood stories of herself and Jocelyne eveyday until the correct terms become a habit. It would be better than talking directly to Jocelyne since the you doesn’t have a gender and you don’t commonly use someone’s name in a conversation except at the very start.
I also think that it makes a difference how flustered you are too. Joyce’s brain is focused on Dina and her sister being acquainted enough to share secrets, so it defaults without thinking to what she has called her sister for all of her life until now.
CombustibleLemons
I dunno, I think it still depends. I’m a trans person and am usually great at properly gendering people all of the time, but there are moments where I’ll slip up even if I’ve always gotten it right before.
My mom used to slip up all the time misgendering me, but now she gets it right 98% of the time, but there are still times when she might get it wrong. It’s clearly not out of malice, it’s just an honest mistake.
I feel like if it’s clear someone’s not doing it on purpose and is genuinely trying their best and improving over time, it’s not too big a deal. Even if it’s still uncomfortable for me, it’d be even more uncomfortable to make a big deal about it when someone’s trying their best.
moon
yeah i usually give grace to my relatives who’ve been calling me different stuff for 20+ years lol im just happy they support me at all
Prior Semblance
I had a coworker that didn’t change their name when they transitioned and I always had to put effort into getting their pronouns correct when they came up in conversation (but not when they were standing there in person). If I had gotten distracted I could have easily slipped up even 6 months later. I believe they did change their name but only after quitting the job, so I never got the chance to see if that made a difference to my brain.
Bogeywoman
I find the time it takes me to get the groove is related to how long I’ve known someone.
Someone can be at the very start of their transition and still boy-moding but if I’ve just met them it’ll click right away. If I’ve known someone a long time I need to practice a lot more (I’ll literally practice talking to myself about memories I have together).
It’s harder to incorporate new info if I beat myself up (go into freeze mode like Joyce) than it is if I own that I’ll make mistakes while I’m processing.
Nymphie
I’ve found that remembering their new name can be hard if it’s someone you’ve known for long, but the actual gendering goes pretty quick.
I can’t quote it directly, but there was a tumblr post that put it in words so well, with that you have to recontextualize your entire memory of the person. It’s not “when they were a boy/girl”, it’s just “before New Name transitioned”. As long as you’re stuck in seeing them as having had the wrong gender at one point, you will continue to slip up.
Ololo-518
At least in English. You have to worry only about speaking in third person.
In other languages though…
(My friend came out as a boy, and my brain was “okay. We change verb forms for masculine now. Okay. We do that for everyone!”, so I had to look out and not use masculine forms for myself…
Jamie
Given a pass by the commenters, sure. But some of us respond to these mistakes with 20 lashes of self-flagellation and frankly it kinda helps with not doing it again, so…
Needfuldoer
An hour, at most.
A lifetime of habit inertia doesn’t turn on a dime.
Nicoleandmaggie
It is way easier for me to not misgender someone I’ve met post transition (in fact I’ve never misgendered someone I met post transition) rather than someone whose transition I’ve been through. For someone who has transitioned twice I’ve even gone through the pronouns in the order I’ve been introduced. Habits are really hard to break and my agender lack of understanding of gender doesn’t help.
Shade
Joyce would still be at the point where she has to mentally correct herself given she’s only just learned this today. So the slip up when she’s not really thinking and just reacting makes sense.
What’s important now is how she handles the error.
DailyBrad
Give her a sec.
Armadillo
Honestly I sympathize with this. If you get used to referring to somebody a certain way it can take time to reprogram. And it feels awful to slip up. But the solution is not to pretend you didn’t make the mistake Joyce, geez!
DailyBrad
Honestly, sometimes it is. Like, a lot of trans people would rather move on from it than endure the apology barrage.
ian livs
Seriously. I get that it’s well-intentioned–and it’s definitely preferable to the transphobic assholes–but after a while, it’s exhausting trying to manage other people’s guilt. Especially when some of them make it all about their feelings instead of yours. A quick self-correction is preferable
Sirksome
It’s an interesting debate because misgendering does happen but the line between honest mistake and bad faith is so thin, as well as processing guilt or apologizing too much. It’s just so easy for transphobes to take advantage at every aspect of the interaction. How does it feel when a loved one vs a stranger misgenders? What if it keeps happening? Is it okay if it’s an honest mistake, how do you decide when it’s too much? I don’t think we’ve really found an elegant solution yet.
Armadillo
Oh definitely fair. I would never pull some apology barrage nonsense, past a certain point you’re clearly just doing that for your own benefit. I remember the one time I got called out for slipping up I just said sorry one time and made sure it was as genuine as I could make it.
…And then I agonized over it for weeks in private. Which might not have been the healthiest way to do things but you know what? The next time I heard her deadname (she was really slow to update her caller ID for some reason) I had reprogrammed myself so effectively I literally didn’t know who was being referred to. So clearly agonizing over your mistakes is the best way to go about things!
Shade
Not that it happens much, but when it does my default is to say the correct pronoun and say sorry just the one time after the mistake. I think that’s reasonable, I haven’t had any issues at least.
StClair
TIL a new word that I have definitely engaged in. u_u
BarerMender
“Until” is Johnny-come-lately. “Till” goes back to Old English.Til or ’til is a misapprehension of English teachers
BarerMender
Oops, left out a part. “Until” only goes back to the 14th century.
Nymph
That’s not the word they were using at all. TIL is an abbreviation of Today I Learned.
butting
Ahhhh but THAT one goes right back to the Venerable Bede, who recounts how it was boosted from Old Gaelic by Saxon invaders. A random fact brought to you to celebrate The Internet Never Lies Day 2024.
Matthew Davis
Wouldn’t it be Brythonic at that point? Not that Bede would call it that, but he wouldn’t call it Old Gaelic either.
And yes, this is me Missing the Point.
M!a
The term goes back to the Pedantic Wars between Turkey and Greece. Frozen Turkeys were cooked in boiling Greece and the loss of life was catastrophic. Sadly, the act kept repeating throughout the period because Hold My Beer.
Needfuldoer
“Till” can also be a cash register or point-of-sale machine!
“TIL” = Today I Learned
ian livs
I don’t think she’s pretending she didn’t make the mistake? Seems like she’s just correcting herself by saying the sentence again the right way
Alongcameaspider
She also seems to be trying to force her brain to get used to referring to Jocelyne as the correct pronouns so she doesn’t make the mistake again
Nono
Reminding me of Hannelore writing “Tilly” on the blackboard 1000 times.
Taffy
I asked her to stop, but she wouldn’t listen.
BarerMender
Ha! Good one!
KM
If that was the only thing she did then that’s one thing but according to Joe she’s apparently now actively trying to forget she even made the mistake at all by purging her memory… that doesn’t sound really healthy.
NGPZ
some earthlings seem to try to force making it more natural for themselves by basically gaslighting themselves into thinking it was always this way for them to begin with, to varying degrees of efficacy