“God damnit I wish these two would shut the hell up so i can focus on drawing the proper line of action so that my poses stop looking so stiff! God, I screwed up the hand placement and it’s all their fault! I shouldn’t have picked to day to use charcoal”
I imagine that most of the campus has identified the main cast and avoid them. If not when Joe’s list came out, then when it became a mortal hazard to be near Becky or Joyce.
“Why yes Joyce, your near-continuous snark, fundie-residual sexual shaming and hostile put-downs have set the stage for me to open up and share my vulnerability. Here, please crush my heart while you’re in there.”
Tf does she think Joe’s doing, hanging on her every word? I get that Joyce is going through it right now, but she’s acting downright blind to the tone her actions are setting. No duh Joe will respond with jokes and snark.
I feel like thete’s more to their relationship than what’s been shown? Like what prompted Joyce to start texting Joe that one weekend where she went home or if he texted back at any point?
A lot of her interactions with Joe have also felt very defensive lately as well and I’m not sure if it’s due to her expecting him to tease her or if it’s more due to how all her friends have been treating her lately? Most of her more positive interactions have been with Joe since the start of the new term/semester so I’m interested in seeing where this goes…
Like an autistic person might sometimes. But that can’t be right can it?
Taffy
Maybe this is an insensitive thing to say, but… So what if she’s (probably) autistic? So am I, and I don’t get a free pass to say any old thing I want about people. I get rightly shit down if I get genuinely out of line, and while I don’t think Joyce is actually doing that here, if she were she shouldn’t get that free pass for it, either. We (autistic people) aren’t magical faeries who get to play by our own rules and expect every single neuroboring person to let us do and say whatever, consequence-free. If Joe was truly hurt by her remark (I don’t think he is), he’d be well within any reasonable standard of behavior to shoot back at her and/or leave, or even bluntly tell her she’s crossing a line.
Now, I’m not painting either of them as Bad People, let’s get that straight up-front, but there’s absolutely no reason why she should be allowed to say and do things that are hurtful (I don’t think she’s doing that) or fail to read the room without an expectation of something happening as a direct result. In fact, failing to read the room often has the direct consequence of being removed from the room, and that’s Fine, Actually.
TL;DR, like… I just don’t think being (probably) autistic means she (or we) can just Get To act however and Joe can’t be bothered by it.
Nova
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone you’re replying to said “she gets to act however she wants and joe can’t be bothered by it” – they were pointing out that there are reasons behind what she’s doing and how she’s doing it that explain why she might not be behaving the way some people expect.
Also, she’s not someone who has been working for a bit to understand and cope with her social cue struggles. She’s brand new to this. It has never occurred to her before a couple days ago. She doesn’t get to act however she wants, but it wouldn’t kill people in this comment section to treat her with a little empathy while she finds out where her miscommunications lie and gets a handle on what to apply extra effort to.
Taffy
I don’t really have a stake in whether you’re right or wrong, personally. That’s not my jurisdiction. I also never said anyone else said anything, but I will now. You yourself called it a “great excuse”, and maybe we’ve just lived different experiences, but that noun has usually been thrown at me as a synonym for “free pass”, with the implication that I ever wanted that pass to begin with. Whether or not “free pass” is the specific phrasing anyone here used, is beside the point.
But if you’re saying that’s not what you meant, I’ll just believe you, because you know what you meant better that I do. I was bristling at a term that’s been used to directly harm me and the attitude behind it, is all.
Nova
I wanted to reply, but honestly if you’ve got no stake in it then there’s little point. Have a good one.
Seriously, it’s like she actually thinks Joe doesn’t have any emotion past “horny”.
teebee
She knows he does, which is why it frustrates her that he again and again has not let her in. She doesn’t actually believe he’s just a libido with a face, but she’s tired of having to pry for him to share anything with her
Rainhat
Did I miss something where he owes her that, on demand?
When she asked him if he wanted to talk about it in the doorway of his dorm room, he said, “wanna go get a pizza?” Which was both an implicit agreement that he was open to talking about this and also a choice to move it from the most private venue immediately available to them (Joe’s room, not currently containing Danny) to something more public (a restaurant).
Joe set the expectations there. He’s perfectly within his rights to change his mind about what he wants to share, and when, and where, but Joyce’s irritation about the backtracking ain’t coming out of nowhere.
Taffy
I think “Do you wanna talk about this over a pizza” was the expectation. Joyce said she was coming here and his response to that was “Another time, then?” Sure, he agreed to come with her to this class, but that doesn’t automatically mean he’s shifted on where he’s okay talking about his anxieties. He’s made no indication since coming here that he wants to Have This Conversation Here, and while it’s fine for her to ask, it’s not backtracking on his part to not do something he didn’t explicitly and vocally agree to do. He hasn’t (as far as I can see) changed his mind about the when and where, he expressly set that conversation aside for “another time”. This class is a separate activity.
Azhrei Vep
He doesn’t, and I don’t honestly think she believes he does. She just … really wishes he would share with her. And she’s frustrated that he won’t. And that may not entirely be fair, but it’s also pretty believeable and relatable.
On both their parts. Because damn it, Joyce, you’re in public, in what is probably a fairly quiet room. This is absolutely not the place for that kind of conversation. But damn it, Joe … don’t just blow it off with a casual joke, either. Blow it off with a casual joke, then follow it with a “seriously though, not here, okay?”
thejeff
“Not here” implies he’ll talk about it elsewhere and he doesn’t want to open up to her about this at all.
And he doesn’t have to.
teebee
If he’s not up to share he should say so then? He suggested talking about his anxieties at a pizza place, and Joyce counter offered that he come with her to life drawing. And he did. He has not indicated to her that he changed his mind about sharing, thus Joyce is frustrated by the deflecting.
Yotomoe
Yeah but I feel like talking over lunch is a different vibe than talking while in an art class. You might still be in public but a booth gives you some semblance of privacy.
Subjektivity
Im not sure that she does see him as having more depth than his persona. Id imagine she suspects there might be more but is so offput by his casual objectification of women that she immediately puts up her defenses whenever she lets them down and he responds with a defensive joke.
v.gay.person
While I agree she hasn’t been very palatable, I’m not miffed here. She heard one of her friends might be going through something and was told she should talk to him. Sought him out and offered to talk to which he was agreeable (he suggested pizza and came with her). She initiated the topic and was immediately shot down with a weird kinda-sexist joke.
On a bad day, “if you wanna act like an emotionally stunted misogynist, fine. You do that,” would also be my response.
On a good day it’d be different, but I also have a fully formed brain. As a teen I’d probably still be a bit bongo
Nova
She literally just found out she might have autism a day ago. It’s actually a great excuse AND an explanation because she’s dealing with something right now, isn’t equipped with any of the tools ND people use to deal with NT people, and also isn’t required to laugh at jokes she finds objectionable.
I will simply note that “explore a little empathy” was also the reaction when she tried to be all “AUTISM BUDDIES” with Dina and Dina shut her down.
Yeah, Joyce has been All Up In Her Feelings for multiple valid reasons (and a couple not-so-valid). That doesn’t give her the right to demand to be “Anxiety Buddies” with Joe, then insult him when he doesn’t play along
.
YEPPPP. Shocking that someone with undiagnosed, unassisted autism might be struggling with symptoms of autism.
Mr D
Hey, yo, someone in the autism spectrum here: We do not, actually, get to use autism as an excuse for being little shits.
It is an explanation, sure, but we don’t get free passes.
Nova
Hi there! Also on the spectrum and not interested in arguing against a point I didn’t make.
I said she’s struggling with the symptoms, not that she gets a free pass. I said it’s not shocking that she’s struggling, given the fact that she had no awareness or assistance up to this point with recognizing and understanding her own behaviours.
If everyone could stop acting like I’m saying “free pass!” when I really said “understanding!” that’d be great.
Last time I checked that’s not an excuse to hurt people’s feelings, though. You still gotta apologize and try to be better, even if people around you should be more understanding with you, too.
Taffy
You are correct.
Tan
He knows it’s a facade. She knows it’s a facade. He knows she knows it’s a facade. She knows that he knows that she knows etc. He is nonetheless specifically and purposely continuing the facade. If he is going to be hurt by her giving up and admitting defeat on pushing past the facade (at least for today), that is on him.
Which, as even her defenders have pointed out, she knows isn’t true.
That makes it WORSE.
Tan
Joe: Really, I don’t like birthday parties.
Joyce: Fine, I will not throw you a birthday party, as you hate them so much.
Joe: *deeply upset at not getting a birthday party*
Comment section: How can Joyce so cruelly take away someone’s birthday party like this? And to go so far as to call him a birthday party hater?? Where is her comeuppance?!
RedCat
…yeah, Tan, that’s not really what this is. She SAID something mean she could have said in a nicer way. That’s it.
But if she’s evil, then she’s like her father, who she despises with a purple passion.
Proxiehunter
That’s a good part of what led to her mind creating a second her who’s almost cartoonishly good in a “Saturday morning superhero punches bad guys in the face.” kind of way. Yeah it was also to get her violent urges out in a way more acceptable to her but I can’t help but think that there being a her that was by definition good was a factor.
Well Joe of all the times in which you need to be honest, this is one of them. I’m not sure how Joyce will react to your anxieties, but it has to be better than being silent and feeling like shit.
213 thoughts on “Too unrealistic”
Ana Chronistic
“That hurts! I ALSO have a penis”
Psychie
I’m pretty sure that’s the libido
Ana Chronistic
So, a penis with a face?
Rose by Any Other Name
… so Neon Green then?
(that’s a deep cut for the Slipshine subscribers)
The Wellerman
That second panel Joe face is just PERFECT ?
Amós Batista
Did Joe draw a boobie, upside down?
Gonna say he have some basics of perspective, which is … good.
shadowcell
it’s super effective!
Thag Simmons
Hmm, is that a worse hit than whah he got during their last date
Psychie
Yes, soul damage is generally worse than bludgeoning.
Nathan
Wonder what the rest of the class thinks of all this.
Doctor_Who
They’re not protagonists, they know to just shut up and mind their business.
Yotomoe
“God damnit I wish these two would shut the hell up so i can focus on drawing the proper line of action so that my poses stop looking so stiff! God, I screwed up the hand placement and it’s all their fault! I shouldn’t have picked to day to use charcoal”
Decidedly Orthogonal
I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue!
Mollyscribbles
They’re so focused on trying to get something on the page in 15 seconds that everything else is just background noise.
Proxiehunter
For some reason I feel like at least one person has started drawing them instead of the model. It just feels right.
Rainhat
I imagine that most of the campus has identified the main cast and avoid them. If not when Joe’s list came out, then when it became a mortal hazard to be near Becky or Joyce.
Ed Callahan
Maybe the IU administration issues threat level warnings to the rest of the campus, based on how many crises are going on among the cast.
spriteless aunty
Ha like in Community.
teddae
The Willis Gives, and the Willis Taketh Away
True Survivor
He is displeased with us. Who has a goat to sacrifice?
RedCat
That’s animal abuse, sacrifice a cake. Which is significantly less animal abuse.
The Wellerman
Oh please. Everyone knows Willis Sama would be much more pleased with a Kraft Dinner. ?
Mravac Kid
That should be spelled DAMN YOU WILLIS.
SweaterZach
“Why yes Joyce, your near-continuous snark, fundie-residual sexual shaming and hostile put-downs have set the stage for me to open up and share my vulnerability. Here, please crush my heart while you’re in there.”
Tf does she think Joe’s doing, hanging on her every word? I get that Joyce is going through it right now, but she’s acting downright blind to the tone her actions are setting. No duh Joe will respond with jokes and snark.
Yotomoe
Yeah she’s not really made herself out to be a pal or a confidant. Honestly it’s kinda bugging me a lot actually.
Psi Baka Onna
I feel like thete’s more to their relationship than what’s been shown? Like what prompted Joyce to start texting Joe that one weekend where she went home or if he texted back at any point?
A lot of her interactions with Joe have also felt very defensive lately as well and I’m not sure if it’s due to her expecting him to tease her or if it’s more due to how all her friends have been treating her lately? Most of her more positive interactions have been with Joe since the start of the new term/semester so I’m interested in seeing where this goes…
thakoru
It’s almost like she has trouble reading social cues or something.
Proxiehunter
Like an autistic person might sometimes. But that can’t be right can it?
Taffy
Maybe this is an insensitive thing to say, but… So what if she’s (probably) autistic? So am I, and I don’t get a free pass to say any old thing I want about people. I get rightly shit down if I get genuinely out of line, and while I don’t think Joyce is actually doing that here, if she were she shouldn’t get that free pass for it, either. We (autistic people) aren’t magical faeries who get to play by our own rules and expect every single neuroboring person to let us do and say whatever, consequence-free. If Joe was truly hurt by her remark (I don’t think he is), he’d be well within any reasonable standard of behavior to shoot back at her and/or leave, or even bluntly tell her she’s crossing a line.
Now, I’m not painting either of them as Bad People, let’s get that straight up-front, but there’s absolutely no reason why she should be allowed to say and do things that are hurtful (I don’t think she’s doing that) or fail to read the room without an expectation of something happening as a direct result. In fact, failing to read the room often has the direct consequence of being removed from the room, and that’s Fine, Actually.
TL;DR, like… I just don’t think being (probably) autistic means she (or we) can just Get To act however and Joe can’t be bothered by it.
Nova
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone you’re replying to said “she gets to act however she wants and joe can’t be bothered by it” – they were pointing out that there are reasons behind what she’s doing and how she’s doing it that explain why she might not be behaving the way some people expect.
Also, she’s not someone who has been working for a bit to understand and cope with her social cue struggles. She’s brand new to this. It has never occurred to her before a couple days ago. She doesn’t get to act however she wants, but it wouldn’t kill people in this comment section to treat her with a little empathy while she finds out where her miscommunications lie and gets a handle on what to apply extra effort to.
Taffy
I don’t really have a stake in whether you’re right or wrong, personally. That’s not my jurisdiction. I also never said anyone else said anything, but I will now. You yourself called it a “great excuse”, and maybe we’ve just lived different experiences, but that noun has usually been thrown at me as a synonym for “free pass”, with the implication that I ever wanted that pass to begin with. Whether or not “free pass” is the specific phrasing anyone here used, is beside the point.
But if you’re saying that’s not what you meant, I’ll just believe you, because you know what you meant better that I do. I was bristling at a term that’s been used to directly harm me and the attitude behind it, is all.
Nova
I wanted to reply, but honestly if you’ve got no stake in it then there’s little point. Have a good one.
Taffy
Aye, and you as well. ?
Freezer
That makes it explainable, not acceptable.
Dina got to call her on her bullshit. I hope Joe gets a similar chance.
Freezer
Seriously, it’s like she actually thinks Joe doesn’t have any emotion past “horny”.
teebee
She knows he does, which is why it frustrates her that he again and again has not let her in. She doesn’t actually believe he’s just a libido with a face, but she’s tired of having to pry for him to share anything with her
Rainhat
Did I miss something where he owes her that, on demand?
Freezer
THANK YOU.
Yotomoe
In public, might I add?
Cerusee
When she asked him if he wanted to talk about it in the doorway of his dorm room, he said, “wanna go get a pizza?” Which was both an implicit agreement that he was open to talking about this and also a choice to move it from the most private venue immediately available to them (Joe’s room, not currently containing Danny) to something more public (a restaurant).
Joe set the expectations there. He’s perfectly within his rights to change his mind about what he wants to share, and when, and where, but Joyce’s irritation about the backtracking ain’t coming out of nowhere.
Taffy
I think “Do you wanna talk about this over a pizza” was the expectation. Joyce said she was coming here and his response to that was “Another time, then?” Sure, he agreed to come with her to this class, but that doesn’t automatically mean he’s shifted on where he’s okay talking about his anxieties. He’s made no indication since coming here that he wants to Have This Conversation Here, and while it’s fine for her to ask, it’s not backtracking on his part to not do something he didn’t explicitly and vocally agree to do. He hasn’t (as far as I can see) changed his mind about the when and where, he expressly set that conversation aside for “another time”. This class is a separate activity.
Azhrei Vep
He doesn’t, and I don’t honestly think she believes he does. She just … really wishes he would share with her. And she’s frustrated that he won’t. And that may not entirely be fair, but it’s also pretty believeable and relatable.
On both their parts. Because damn it, Joyce, you’re in public, in what is probably a fairly quiet room. This is absolutely not the place for that kind of conversation. But damn it, Joe … don’t just blow it off with a casual joke, either. Blow it off with a casual joke, then follow it with a “seriously though, not here, okay?”
thejeff
“Not here” implies he’ll talk about it elsewhere and he doesn’t want to open up to her about this at all.
And he doesn’t have to.
teebee
If he’s not up to share he should say so then? He suggested talking about his anxieties at a pizza place, and Joyce counter offered that he come with her to life drawing. And he did. He has not indicated to her that he changed his mind about sharing, thus Joyce is frustrated by the deflecting.
Yotomoe
Yeah but I feel like talking over lunch is a different vibe than talking while in an art class. You might still be in public but a booth gives you some semblance of privacy.
Subjektivity
Im not sure that she does see him as having more depth than his persona. Id imagine she suspects there might be more but is so offput by his casual objectification of women that she immediately puts up her defenses whenever she lets them down and he responds with a defensive joke.
v.gay.person
While I agree she hasn’t been very palatable, I’m not miffed here. She heard one of her friends might be going through something and was told she should talk to him. Sought him out and offered to talk to which he was agreeable (he suggested pizza and came with her). She initiated the topic and was immediately shot down with a weird kinda-sexist joke.
On a bad day, “if you wanna act like an emotionally stunted misogynist, fine. You do that,” would also be my response.
On a good day it’d be different, but I also have a fully formed brain. As a teen I’d probably still be a bit bongo
Nova
She literally just found out she might have autism a day ago. It’s actually a great excuse AND an explanation because she’s dealing with something right now, isn’t equipped with any of the tools ND people use to deal with NT people, and also isn’t required to laugh at jokes she finds objectionable.
It wouldn’t hurt you to explore a little empathy.
Freezer
I will simply note that “explore a little empathy” was also the reaction when she tried to be all “AUTISM BUDDIES” with Dina and Dina shut her down.
Yeah, Joyce has been All Up In Her Feelings for multiple valid reasons (and a couple not-so-valid). That doesn’t give her the right to demand to be “Anxiety Buddies” with Joe, then insult him when he doesn’t play along
.
Nova
YEPPPP. Shocking that someone with undiagnosed, unassisted autism might be struggling with symptoms of autism.
Mr D
Hey, yo, someone in the autism spectrum here: We do not, actually, get to use autism as an excuse for being little shits.
It is an explanation, sure, but we don’t get free passes.
Nova
Hi there! Also on the spectrum and not interested in arguing against a point I didn’t make.
I said she’s struggling with the symptoms, not that she gets a free pass. I said it’s not shocking that she’s struggling, given the fact that she had no awareness or assistance up to this point with recognizing and understanding her own behaviours.
If everyone could stop acting like I’m saying “free pass!” when I really said “understanding!” that’d be great.
RedCat
Last time I checked that’s not an excuse to hurt people’s feelings, though. You still gotta apologize and try to be better, even if people around you should be more understanding with you, too.
Taffy
You are correct.
Tan
He knows it’s a facade. She knows it’s a facade. He knows she knows it’s a facade. She knows that he knows that she knows etc. He is nonetheless specifically and purposely continuing the facade. If he is going to be hurt by her giving up and admitting defeat on pushing past the facade (at least for today), that is on him.
Freezer
And the insults are on Joyce.
Tan
The “insult” is a direct description of the facade he is presenting.
Freezer
Which, as even her defenders have pointed out, she knows isn’t true.
That makes it WORSE.
Tan
Joe: Really, I don’t like birthday parties.
Joyce: Fine, I will not throw you a birthday party, as you hate them so much.
Joe: *deeply upset at not getting a birthday party*
Comment section: How can Joyce so cruelly take away someone’s birthday party like this? And to go so far as to call him a birthday party hater?? Where is her comeuppance?!
RedCat
…yeah, Tan, that’s not really what this is. She SAID something mean she could have said in a nicer way. That’s it.
Nono
It’s why I’m not behind Joe/Joyce right now. Until she works all the residual judgment out of her system, she’s not kind to him.
Bladeglory
“That makes no sense. You say I don’t have an anxiety and then immediately say my anxiety!”
Joe Moose
No idea why, but I think Amber may have been slightly evil putting these two together.
True Survivor
Amber’s always been slightly evil.
Opus the Poet
But if she’s evil, then she’s like her father, who she despises with a purple passion.
Proxiehunter
That’s a good part of what led to her mind creating a second her who’s almost cartoonishly good in a “Saturday morning superhero punches bad guys in the face.” kind of way. Yeah it was also to get her violent urges out in a way more acceptable to her but I can’t help but think that there being a her that was by definition good was a factor.
RedCat
Well, yeah, she needs to make her own drama, she just stated that a few strips ago.
DanLovatClark
Amber is smart and Amber is mean?
Kyrik Michalowski
Well Joe of all the times in which you need to be honest, this is one of them. I’m not sure how Joyce will react to your anxieties, but it has to be better than being silent and feeling like shit.
RassilonTDavros
…what is Joe’s drawing in the second panel supposed to be? I feel like I’m missing something here.
Thag Simmons
a bangin’ boobie that’s too rocking for this world
Thag Simmons
a bangin’ boobie that’s too rocking for this world
Yotomoe