actually, what’s crazy is they’re ALL taking Calculus their freshman year–I took it ’cause I just expected to have to take some kind of maths every year, then it ended up counting as an ELECTIVE |=o
Well, Walkyverse Joyce was into Math, I’m assuming Dina is going for a science degree so probably has to take it, and I’m guessing Walky’s mom picked out at least some of his classes and wants him to be pre-med. Not sure about Sal, Mike, or Billie, though.
Doctor_Who
I think Walky’s major is telecommunications, and he’s almost worked up the guts to ask someone what that means.
AgentKeen
Yeah, I know, but his mom also says she’s hoping he’ll still change his mind, and I can see her at least saying ‘well, you have to take these, but can choose the rest’ (thus Gender Studies, since he was the one taking it because it’s an easy English credit).
Yet_One_More_Idiot
They’re *all* taking calculus in their 1st year? Of course they are.
Because Maths is awesome! 😀
(said the Maths graduate, cough cough)
I wonder, how much of Walky’s reaction in the last couple of panels is due to a) Dorothy mentioning that he can get top grades while not studying even though he just barely passed a test, b) Dorothy referring to him as “her boy”, and c) post-coital brainfreeze? 😛
Deanatay
Wait, you can NOT take a Math class during the year?
Calculus was part of my major requirements; I could chose that or biometry (physiology was one of my majors <3). But yeah, it's weird for Billie, because journalism majors in my school tended to take statistics or something easier to get the math requirement out of the way fast. Do we know what majors the others are? I just know Joyce's is education, and Walky's is communications. I would guess Dina's is archeology, or evolutionary biology.
Fugacity
Interesting that the Journalism majors are taking statistics when it seems to be an unwritten rule that Journalists must misinterpret every statistic they run across. They are forever making the mistake of “correlation = causation.”
‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’
(Mark Twain attributed it to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli but there is no solid evidence he ever said it – only that Mr. Clemens wrote it down and attributed it to Mr. Disraeli)
Bagge
A fact well corroborated from many sources and eagerly defended by Mr. Clemens is that Mr. Clemens was a liar.
John
Mr. Clemens had a well-developed natural defense mechanism against Star Trek computers.
Bagge
He was in one episode, wasn’t he? Did he fight the computer?
curiousgeorgie
Learning what kinds of statistical tests might exist in an introductory stats class takes you nowhere near understanding how to interpret statistics and experimental design, or even just when a particular test is appropriate (given real-world data that doesn’t have a solution in the back of the book).
Now I know why I love Joyce’s character so much, then. I took my university degree in Maths, which is my fave subject too.
…even though I took Quantum Mechanics II in my third year and got a zero. 😛
Bagge
I imagine in Quantum Mechanics you could get a 0 simultaneously as another grade.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Yes, but decoherence occurs rapidly.
Rycan
What can happen is you take the same test multiple times, answer each question the exact same each time, and be completely unable to predict whether you pass or fail each time. Your pass/fail ratio will be measurable, however.
Rycan
Quantum mechanics requires a good background in math, yes. But once you get beyond the hydrogen atom (a foreign concept to physicists), a background in chemistry really helps, too.
As a chem major, I took the course (mandatory for me), got hopelessly confused, and somehow passed. Although, if I took it again, I might fail. Grades are inherently uncertain in quantum mechanics.
Naw, that’s totally normal at IU (probably at other places too, but you know me, I never miss an opportunity to be the expert). Tons of my friends are taking it right now. They take it to get done with the basic requirement and then expect not to have to take any more math in college.
Hmm, maybe they have an adviser that is setting them up to fail. I’m sure they all have to take a math class anyway as a requirement to graduate, that’s pretty standard. But if you aren’t in a STEM major, they should be an easier math class they could take.
Come to think of it, I don’t remember what everyone’s major was, except for Walky being communications. I can see Dorothy taking Calc. regardless because of the challenge, she has to prove she’s Yale material after all. Walky might have taken it just because he’s cocky. But why is Sal taking calculus, what’s her major?
Carriethedragon
There’s also Finite. I have no idea how that compares in difficulty, though.
licoricepencil
IIRC, taking math through at least Precalculus was the “normal” level at my high school. My local big university (also a Big 10 school like IU) required 4 years of math for admissions with precalculus being the expected last year of math, with some calculus being preferred. Walky, Dorothy, Sal, and all the others taking Calc I to take care of their math requirement seems normal to me.
I took through about Calc II though (AP Calc BC) because I was super advanced, and therefore didn’t have to do a class to get my math requirement, so I may be wrong.
Architex
Here in California, we have pretty similar requirements in general. Having taken AP Calc AB, I was able to get out of the first class in our Calculus series. But as an engineer, I’m still taking a freckled-buttload of other math.
Mr Ak
Heh, Americans.
You don’t have to take any maths in Australia for a non-maths degree.
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Same here. British university degrees only require modules directly related to teh degree.
Which for me was Maths. 🙂
Deanatay
That’s too bad. I like having a well-rounded education. Then again, it IS called a “Jeffersonian education”, so maybe it is just an American thing…
Architex
I wouldn’t necessarily call my major a maths one, but Computer Science and Engineering definitely involves a lot of it.
Maybe Sal is taking it because of the whole trying to impress the parents thing that was introduced at one point?
thebombzen
For the record, encouraging someone to take Calc I is NOT “setting them up to fail.” Calc I is not hard as long as you don’t panic about it.
There seems to be this binary, where people who are outside STEM don’t have to take core math classes, but people in STEM still have to take core English classes. It’s pretty irritating that we’re assuming people who take math will automatically fail.
CrazyJ
The problem with calculus is that its difficulty is pretty much dependent on how strong your foundation is in algebra and trigonometry. A calculus teacher will (hopefully) teach you the calculus part, but assume you are comfortable with everything else, which isn’t always the case.
Other math classes you could probably take such as statistics or discrete math is more self-contained, and is usually a safer bet if you know you aren’t going into a STEM major. I’d also argue that statistics is generally more useful to know as well, even though very few majors require taking statistics.
Rycan
I would call a full year of calculus in your freshman year a trial by fire. If you’re coasting like Walky is, you’ll inevitably fail the first quiz on concepts that are completely new to you. After that, you need to learn how to study like a college student, and fast.
If you do get your act together, you’re in a good position to start tackling the actual hard courses.
Rycan
Oh, forgot to add – at my university, I was able to test out of English courses before my frshman year even began 🙂
I also had to test into Calc I, so there was some measure of sanity in that department as well.
holiday_boi
I dunno, Calc II was my easiest class the spring of my freshman year. Admittedly, I tested out of Calc I, but god forbid you give me a problem that requires trig knowledge beyond SOH CAH TOA because I will not do that correctly.
But stats…stats leave me quaking in my boots. I dread the likely stats class(es) I’ll have to take in grad school because I just DO NOT get stats.
Rycan
Heh, Calc II was so brutal for me, I nearly lost a scholarship. Had to appeal to get an extra quarter to recover my GPA.
IJ
People in STEM fields will eventually have to write research papers (or something similar- they will have to be able to communicate efficiently through writing, at the very least). An English major, on the other hand, will probably never need more than basic math skills.
No Name
Sal is sticking it to the (wo)man by proving that she can do everything Walky can (and she might actually succeed, if things keep going this way).
Gigafreak
“Everything you can do, I can do better?”
Walky did Dorothy today. Next time on Dumbing of Age: CAN SAL DO DOROTHY BETTER?
anonymsly
At the university I went to, Calculus was the lowest-level math course that counted for actual credit, regardless of your intended major, anything lower-level was considered ‘remedial’. The classes existed, but didn’t count towards either elective or degree requirements.
That said, if your major was in the College of Arts & Sciences, you had to take a certain number of credit hours (15 or 20) of ‘sciences’ of which math was one. Formal logic classes (in the philosophy major) counted, as did all the hard sciences and I think some linguistics, so if math itself wasn’t required for your major, there were ways around it.
I had to take one math class to graduate (as an English major). I took a course called “Math for the Behavioral Sciences.” Everyone called it “Math for Trees” (as in, not even sentience was required to pass a course this easy). I *stayed* in the professor’s office hours. I managed to pass and with a good grade, to my surprise. But all I remember is that it had to do with sets . . .
The last time I had to deal with calculus was when I paid a visit to the dentist.
Solenoid
+1 for biting wit.
thebombzen
It’s funny that you mention that. Last time I visited the dentist, he told me that plaque accumulates over time, and in order to see how much is on your teeth now you have to integrate the rate at which plaque accumulates over the last six months. The rate at which plaque accumulates is proportional to how much you brush your teeth. So: brush your teeth, because calculus.
Fugacity
Eh – better to hear about calculus from your dentist than your nephrologist (kidney stones), urologist (bladder stones), or hepatologist (gallstones).
No Name
That’s a lot of stones. I can only conclude that you are either a med student or the unluckiest person alive.
What’s worse is if you took AP exams. I was in Calc 3 freshman year and they put all the freshmen eligible for Calc 3 in the same classes. That curve sucked!
Technically we don’t know for sure whether Dorothy is taking Math. Walky said he brought his Calculus book, but he never said he wanted Dorothy to study the same stuff has he was. And when she said to “bring their books” she could mean for separate courses so they could each study separate subjects at the same time.
(I know they probably are both taking Calculus; I’m just saying there are other ways to interpret the comic.)
Dorothy isn’t taking Calculus, as far as we know. Walky’s just mentioning that he brought his book. You can study together without studying the same subject.
In fact, the only classes we know Dorothy takes are Gender Studies and Intro to Logic. We don’t even know what her degree is.
Fugacity
True – but if she wanted to go into some fields of sociology or psycology she would need to take Calculus-based statistics. The really, really simple non-calc based statistics that a lot of people isn’t worth squat, except to convince them (falsely) that they understand statistics.
segnosaur
Well, Dorothy wants to transfer to Yale (with the ultimate goal of becoming president). To be honest, I’m not sure if sociology or psychology would be the best options for that.
She could be taking some sort of pre-law, or economics/business (that might be a bit more geared towards a life in politics). Or maybe she is just going for a general arts degree until she can transfer to Yale and pick a program more suitable to her long term goals.
It would still puzzle me what her courseload is like, especially if she’s not doing Math with the rest of the crew. I wouldn’t put it past her to have already covered whatever is in freshman Calculus on her own and deciding her electives are better spent elsehwere, namely the sociological classes that aren’t really covered as well in textbooks.
John
Dorothy being Dorothy, I’m guessing she took all the AP classes she could cram into her schedule in high school, and placed out of Calc I and is in a different, more advanced calculus class. Or maybe she’s just in a different section; there’s certainly more than one. Even if that weren’t self-evident on a campus of 45,000, we’ve seen one of the others. And she had no reason to try to arrange her schedule to be in the same class as any of the others, because she didn’t know any of them before move-in day. Other schedule-optimization parameters would probably have taken priority, anyway.
segnosaur
Good catch. I had totally forgotten about that little bit of dialog.
So yeah, it does look like she’s taking some calculus. Whether its the same course that the others are taking or an alternate (advanced) course is unknown.
221 thoughts on “Marched”
Jen Aside
THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND
[but take some caution along just in case, ’cause that’s CRAZY]
Jen Aside
actually, what’s crazy is they’re ALL taking Calculus their freshman year–I took it ’cause I just expected to have to take some kind of maths every year, then it ended up counting as an ELECTIVE |=o
AgentKeen
Well, Walkyverse Joyce was into Math, I’m assuming Dina is going for a science degree so probably has to take it, and I’m guessing Walky’s mom picked out at least some of his classes and wants him to be pre-med. Not sure about Sal, Mike, or Billie, though.
Doctor_Who
I think Walky’s major is telecommunications, and he’s almost worked up the guts to ask someone what that means.
AgentKeen
Yeah, I know, but his mom also says she’s hoping he’ll still change his mind, and I can see her at least saying ‘well, you have to take these, but can choose the rest’ (thus Gender Studies, since he was the one taking it because it’s an easy English credit).
Yet_One_More_Idiot
They’re *all* taking calculus in their 1st year? Of course they are.
Because Maths is awesome! 😀
(said the Maths graduate, cough cough)
I wonder, how much of Walky’s reaction in the last couple of panels is due to a) Dorothy mentioning that he can get top grades while not studying even though he just barely passed a test, b) Dorothy referring to him as “her boy”, and c) post-coital brainfreeze? 😛
Deanatay
Wait, you can NOT take a Math class during the year?
Wait, why would you DO that??
(Also a Maths grad)
Eyebrow
What, there are first-year courses that DON’T include calculus?
(Also a math grad)
la6ue mous snow angel
I’d already finished Calculus III before I even started college.
(Math undergrad, freshman)
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Ahhh, calculus, I understood it well.
It was only when I went on to courses like Quantum Mechanics that I started to struggle… ;D
(Is now studying a professional accounting qualification)
Tayo
hes probably still hoping it has something to do with telepathy
airyu
Calculus was part of my major requirements; I could chose that or biometry (physiology was one of my majors <3). But yeah, it's weird for Billie, because journalism majors in my school tended to take statistics or something easier to get the math requirement out of the way fast. Do we know what majors the others are? I just know Joyce's is education, and Walky's is communications. I would guess Dina's is archeology, or evolutionary biology.
Fugacity
Interesting that the Journalism majors are taking statistics when it seems to be an unwritten rule that Journalists must misinterpret every statistic they run across. They are forever making the mistake of “correlation = causation.”
‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’
(Mark Twain attributed it to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli but there is no solid evidence he ever said it – only that Mr. Clemens wrote it down and attributed it to Mr. Disraeli)
Bagge
A fact well corroborated from many sources and eagerly defended by Mr. Clemens is that Mr. Clemens was a liar.
John
Mr. Clemens had a well-developed natural defense mechanism against Star Trek computers.
Bagge
He was in one episode, wasn’t he? Did he fight the computer?
curiousgeorgie
Learning what kinds of statistical tests might exist in an introductory stats class takes you nowhere near understanding how to interpret statistics and experimental design, or even just when a particular test is appropriate (given real-world data that doesn’t have a solution in the back of the book).
Bagge
Math is Joyce’s favorite subject
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Now I know why I love Joyce’s character so much, then. I took my university degree in Maths, which is my fave subject too.
…even though I took Quantum Mechanics II in my third year and got a zero. 😛
Bagge
I imagine in Quantum Mechanics you could get a 0 simultaneously as another grade.
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Yes, but decoherence occurs rapidly.
Rycan
What can happen is you take the same test multiple times, answer each question the exact same each time, and be completely unable to predict whether you pass or fail each time. Your pass/fail ratio will be measurable, however.
Rycan
Quantum mechanics requires a good background in math, yes. But once you get beyond the hydrogen atom (a foreign concept to physicists), a background in chemistry really helps, too.
As a chem major, I took the course (mandatory for me), got hopelessly confused, and somehow passed. Although, if I took it again, I might fail. Grades are inherently uncertain in quantum mechanics.
Carriethedragon
Naw, that’s totally normal at IU (probably at other places too, but you know me, I never miss an opportunity to be the expert). Tons of my friends are taking it right now. They take it to get done with the basic requirement and then expect not to have to take any more math in college.
CrazyJ
Hmm, maybe they have an adviser that is setting them up to fail. I’m sure they all have to take a math class anyway as a requirement to graduate, that’s pretty standard. But if you aren’t in a STEM major, they should be an easier math class they could take.
Come to think of it, I don’t remember what everyone’s major was, except for Walky being communications. I can see Dorothy taking Calc. regardless because of the challenge, she has to prove she’s Yale material after all. Walky might have taken it just because he’s cocky. But why is Sal taking calculus, what’s her major?
Carriethedragon
There’s also Finite. I have no idea how that compares in difficulty, though.
licoricepencil
IIRC, taking math through at least Precalculus was the “normal” level at my high school. My local big university (also a Big 10 school like IU) required 4 years of math for admissions with precalculus being the expected last year of math, with some calculus being preferred. Walky, Dorothy, Sal, and all the others taking Calc I to take care of their math requirement seems normal to me.
I took through about Calc II though (AP Calc BC) because I was super advanced, and therefore didn’t have to do a class to get my math requirement, so I may be wrong.
Architex
Here in California, we have pretty similar requirements in general. Having taken AP Calc AB, I was able to get out of the first class in our Calculus series. But as an engineer, I’m still taking a freckled-buttload of other math.
Mr Ak
Heh, Americans.
You don’t have to take any maths in Australia for a non-maths degree.
Yet_One_More_Idiot
Same here. British university degrees only require modules directly related to teh degree.
Which for me was Maths. 🙂
Deanatay
That’s too bad. I like having a well-rounded education. Then again, it IS called a “Jeffersonian education”, so maybe it is just an American thing…
Architex
I wouldn’t necessarily call my major a maths one, but Computer Science and Engineering definitely involves a lot of it.
pumacatrun2
Maybe Sal is taking it because of the whole trying to impress the parents thing that was introduced at one point?
thebombzen
For the record, encouraging someone to take Calc I is NOT “setting them up to fail.” Calc I is not hard as long as you don’t panic about it.
There seems to be this binary, where people who are outside STEM don’t have to take core math classes, but people in STEM still have to take core English classes. It’s pretty irritating that we’re assuming people who take math will automatically fail.
CrazyJ
The problem with calculus is that its difficulty is pretty much dependent on how strong your foundation is in algebra and trigonometry. A calculus teacher will (hopefully) teach you the calculus part, but assume you are comfortable with everything else, which isn’t always the case.
Other math classes you could probably take such as statistics or discrete math is more self-contained, and is usually a safer bet if you know you aren’t going into a STEM major. I’d also argue that statistics is generally more useful to know as well, even though very few majors require taking statistics.
Rycan
I would call a full year of calculus in your freshman year a trial by fire. If you’re coasting like Walky is, you’ll inevitably fail the first quiz on concepts that are completely new to you. After that, you need to learn how to study like a college student, and fast.
If you do get your act together, you’re in a good position to start tackling the actual hard courses.
Rycan
Oh, forgot to add – at my university, I was able to test out of English courses before my frshman year even began 🙂
I also had to test into Calc I, so there was some measure of sanity in that department as well.
holiday_boi
I dunno, Calc II was my easiest class the spring of my freshman year. Admittedly, I tested out of Calc I, but god forbid you give me a problem that requires trig knowledge beyond SOH CAH TOA because I will not do that correctly.
But stats…stats leave me quaking in my boots. I dread the likely stats class(es) I’ll have to take in grad school because I just DO NOT get stats.
Rycan
Heh, Calc II was so brutal for me, I nearly lost a scholarship. Had to appeal to get an extra quarter to recover my GPA.
IJ
People in STEM fields will eventually have to write research papers (or something similar- they will have to be able to communicate efficiently through writing, at the very least). An English major, on the other hand, will probably never need more than basic math skills.
No Name
Sal is sticking it to the (wo)man by proving that she can do everything Walky can (and she might actually succeed, if things keep going this way).
Gigafreak
“Everything you can do, I can do better?”
Walky did Dorothy today. Next time on Dumbing of Age: CAN SAL DO DOROTHY BETTER?
anonymsly
At the university I went to, Calculus was the lowest-level math course that counted for actual credit, regardless of your intended major, anything lower-level was considered ‘remedial’. The classes existed, but didn’t count towards either elective or degree requirements.
That said, if your major was in the College of Arts & Sciences, you had to take a certain number of credit hours (15 or 20) of ‘sciences’ of which math was one. Formal logic classes (in the philosophy major) counted, as did all the hard sciences and I think some linguistics, so if math itself wasn’t required for your major, there were ways around it.
saltchocolate
I had to take one math class to graduate (as an English major). I took a course called “Math for the Behavioral Sciences.” Everyone called it “Math for Trees” (as in, not even sentience was required to pass a course this easy). I *stayed* in the professor’s office hours. I managed to pass and with a good grade, to my surprise. But all I remember is that it had to do with sets . . .
Plasma Mongoose
The last time I had to deal with calculus was when I paid a visit to the dentist.
Solenoid
+1 for biting wit.
thebombzen
It’s funny that you mention that. Last time I visited the dentist, he told me that plaque accumulates over time, and in order to see how much is on your teeth now you have to integrate the rate at which plaque accumulates over the last six months. The rate at which plaque accumulates is proportional to how much you brush your teeth. So: brush your teeth, because calculus.
Fugacity
Eh – better to hear about calculus from your dentist than your nephrologist (kidney stones), urologist (bladder stones), or hepatologist (gallstones).
No Name
That’s a lot of stones. I can only conclude that you are either a med student or the unluckiest person alive.
Questionor
What’s worse is if you took AP exams. I was in Calc 3 freshman year and they put all the freshmen eligible for Calc 3 in the same classes. That curve sucked!
segnosaur
Technically we don’t know for sure whether Dorothy is taking Math. Walky said he brought his Calculus book, but he never said he wanted Dorothy to study the same stuff has he was. And when she said to “bring their books” she could mean for separate courses so they could each study separate subjects at the same time.
(I know they probably are both taking Calculus; I’m just saying there are other ways to interpret the comic.)
John
I went to an engineering school. The idea of college students not taking Calculus is incredibly bizarre to me.
la6ue mous snow angel
Right?
Nono
Dorothy isn’t taking Calculus, as far as we know. Walky’s just mentioning that he brought his book. You can study together without studying the same subject.
In fact, the only classes we know Dorothy takes are Gender Studies and Intro to Logic. We don’t even know what her degree is.
Fugacity
True – but if she wanted to go into some fields of sociology or psycology she would need to take Calculus-based statistics. The really, really simple non-calc based statistics that a lot of people isn’t worth squat, except to convince them (falsely) that they understand statistics.
segnosaur
Well, Dorothy wants to transfer to Yale (with the ultimate goal of becoming president). To be honest, I’m not sure if sociology or psychology would be the best options for that.
She could be taking some sort of pre-law, or economics/business (that might be a bit more geared towards a life in politics). Or maybe she is just going for a general arts degree until she can transfer to Yale and pick a program more suitable to her long term goals.
Nono
In hindsight, I’d completely forgotten that she was working through Advanced Calculus problems: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/missile/
It would still puzzle me what her courseload is like, especially if she’s not doing Math with the rest of the crew. I wouldn’t put it past her to have already covered whatever is in freshman Calculus on her own and deciding her electives are better spent elsehwere, namely the sociological classes that aren’t really covered as well in textbooks.
John
Dorothy being Dorothy, I’m guessing she took all the AP classes she could cram into her schedule in high school, and placed out of Calc I and is in a different, more advanced calculus class. Or maybe she’s just in a different section; there’s certainly more than one. Even if that weren’t self-evident on a campus of 45,000, we’ve seen one of the others. And she had no reason to try to arrange her schedule to be in the same class as any of the others, because she didn’t know any of them before move-in day. Other schedule-optimization parameters would probably have taken priority, anyway.
segnosaur
Good catch. I had totally forgotten about that little bit of dialog.
So yeah, it does look like she’s taking some calculus. Whether its the same course that the others are taking or an alternate (advanced) course is unknown.
otusasio451
Trading Places, starring Dorothy and Walky.
AgentKeen
Hehe, freckle butt.
Disloyal Subject
Arguably the best kind of butt.
Yotomoe
Well I’m the kinda guy who prefers big butts. I won’t lie.
Disloyal Subject
They’re hardly mutually exclusive. I thought that big butts’ superiority was a given.
…oh shit, is this Butt’s Disease? Is this how it starts?
grantimusmaximus
It’s only a matter of time before the merest sign of butts develops into full-blown #weirdbuttstuff.
otusasio451
Well, as another brother, I can’t deny that.
Plasma Mongoose
Now you got me thinking about freckle-punching. 😛
Disloyal Subject
…punching, or pinching? Not all that many people are into the first one.
Plasma Mongoose
Freckle-punching is Aussie slang for butt-sex.
Disloyal Subject
Huh. Learn something every day.
pumacatrun2
I’m Aussie and have never heard that one 😛
Plasma Mongoose
Clearly you never used to read Picture magazine back in the 90s.
Gigafreak
Ruth is into it but with role reversal
Deanatay
For Billie, it means getting punched by a girl with freckles. So, it’s kinda a turn-on.
Idon'tcarenomore
Dorothy is weird. Walky is confused, moreso that usual. And guilty.
Mr. Random