Just kissing
Posted on October 19, 2025 by David M Willis

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Tags: dorothy, joyce

309 thoughts on “Just kissing”

  1. NGPZ

    aaaaaawwwwweeee :’)

    the ship may have been a little rough on the entry but this still gonna be some cute and cuddy sailing ^-^ <3

    *plays “Starlight Festival” from Super Mario Galaxy*

    1. Clif

      Yes!!!

      I shudder to think what Willis is setting us up for.

    2. Yet_One_More_Idiot

      *Has been on this ship since something like 2012* Finally it’s time to set sail properly! ^^ Joycy and Dots are just being friggin’ adorable together right now. ❤

      Also, Joycy’s had “a bit of a crush” in kinda the same way that WW1 was “a bit of an argument”. xP

      Also also – Joyce “Just kissing” can be a lot of fun, and good warm-up for more intimate stuff. Don’t be in too much of a hurry to get past “just kissing”. ❤

      1. Steamweed

        “Bit of an argument”, yeah! Like, what the hell. Some guy gets shot, and now everydamnbody is yelling. So uptight, really. Whole world needed to eat a snickers.

        1. ResRam

          A whole lot of people got shot before that some guy and since then.
          But yeah, the screaming on all channels (and without much information) about that specific some guy was extraoridnary.

          Especially since that some dude made it a solid cornerstone of his activist career to always scold everybody who ever said anything about gun violence for “politicizing a tragedy”.

  2. Ana Chronistic

    “Unlike Becky’s, MY Dorothy binder is VERY FULL”

    1. Rose by Any other Name

      I mean, given her chest size, that’s to be expected.

      **offers a high-five to any trans mascs in the house**

      1. Nymph

        *accepts half the high five on behalf of genderfluid people who bind sometimes!*

        1. Clif

          What I want to know is what is Rose going to do with the other half of a high five.

        2. Throwatron

          You invest that in an indexed fund, in 10-15 years, it’s a whole high five again!

      2. NGPZ

        I accept the half hi-five as well, I sometimes bind (even tho i practically flat) it feel nice and snug ^^

        1. Steamweed

          Only time I wore one was about 4 inches lower, to get a Hallowe’en costume to fit.

  3. Pocky

    she learned faster than she could’ve predicted

  4. Dot

    Alright, hater containment thread, let the shippers have their fun and contain your kvetching to here

    1. Dot

      Can’t really put a finger on why I just can’t vibe with this the way I could with Billie and Ruth. It’s not the cheating, I’m over that by now, but it’s something.

      1. Phil

        Billie + Ruth or Becky + Dina are least fun to read and/or have interesting dynamics to them. This is just boring while trying to be overly cute.

        1. Dot

          I mean I definitely find these two boring as a couple, very plain, very vanilla, very whitebread (statistically they ARE the whitest couple in the strip…). I’ll cop to them being cute enough, but there’s gotta be more to it than that. Gotta have some spice.

        2. Smokeysis

          That’s about how I feel, yeah. It’s just kind of boring. It doesn’t help that I don’t tend to really go for shipping best friends a lot of the time anyways (I know it’s not universal, but the thought of being in a relationship with any of my best friends is just… Weird. Regardless of their gender.) So I’m just waiting for something interesting to happen, like Dorothy finding out about the polyamory proposal.

        3. Big Z

          There was a frission of something today – if we have any ongoing dwell time on Dorothy’s internal roil of insecurity and perceived inadequacy, that could actually make for something interesting. Panel Five today has already dampened my hopes that Panel Three today could be the start of this relationship having something more to it than sweet+light, sadly.

        4. Dot

          I agree, if we leaned in on Dorothy’s insecurities and neurotic need to be perfect at everything she does on the first try, that’d be something. But it just gets instantly defused.

        5. Wendy

          Yeah this is…pretty much it haha.

      2. Bogeywoman

        Personally, I just don’t really see the romantic/sexual vibe. Maybe it’s because they remind me a bit of me and one of my friends, including the low-key sapphic tone. It always felt more like a squish than a crush, so the jump to the full romance is kinda jarring.

        1. Fuzzy

          Samesies. I mean, the squish part. Not that I specifically have a low-key sapphic friend who Dotty and Joyce reminds me of. Though Joyce’s various mildly-sapphic feelings about all of her female friends is a relatable vibe, and I would not be interested in fucking most of the female friends I feel that way about, so, iunno, like 25% samesies on that too I guess.

        2. FluffyLlamacorn

          Yeah, as an aroace woman with a lot of close and cuddly friendships, it stings a little when their entire friendship is being rewritten into a crush. The implication that any friendship that close HAS to not just *turn* romantic, but always *have been* romantic is really frustrating. Granted, they’re both still high on new relationship energy, so I can maybe excuse some of them as allo nonsense, but this has been bugging me since Dorothy started to realize her crush.

      3. Airyu

        That’s totally fair! I’m not a fan of Billie/Ruth, I think they were bad for each other in a way I don’t think Joyce and Dorothy are, but overall I can’t put my finger on why I don’t like that ship. (I am also not particularly a fan of Joyce and Dorothy, but as someone who used to have a crush on their very straight best friend, this does have a little wish fulfillment for me)

        1. Big Z

          For me that’s part of it, I think — I didn’t think Billie and Ruth were good for each other and I didn’t really ship it, per se, but their story arc was interesting! When the two of them showed up, you knew something was going to happen that was going to have something to say about substance abuse or depression or how to be in love when you don’t even like yourself or any number of things that make for powerful drama.

          When Joyce and Dorothy show up, for the past little bit, you know you’re going to get saccharine sweetness and glacially slow plot movement. There’s no payoff here for anyone but the shippers as of yet.

        2. Big Z

          Today’s strip is a particular case in point — if we have any dwell time at all on Dorothy’s ongoing insecurities and need to be Ms. Perfect (with the planning and research and everything), that could end up being something interesting to read outside of just “ship sailed”. So I’m vaguely annoyed that she seems to have already gotten over it by panel five.

        3. Airyu

          I think at least some things *had* to go smoothly with Joyce as a foil? comparison? to Becky. To have an easy coming out, to be with her first (girl) crush, etc. And I’m not sure either is completely over their issues! I think Dorothy might look “over it” for a few strips and then go back to where she was on some level for example
          Am aside, I also do find it a little funny that Dorothy seems to be into people that look like her, since the other girl she blushes about was Amazi-girl/Amber. And it’s nice to have a little reprieve from Anxiety or Age because this comic can be A Lot sometimes

      4. Vaishino

        Billie + Ruth’s lead up involved physical fighting and alcohol abuse, and their time together was fraught with secrecy and conflict. So far we haven’t seen much from these two aside from panic and kissing. Maybe when cracks form over Joyce revealing she’s still planning on seeing Joe, or maybe one or both of them just isn’t into pussy and the sex is bad, it’ll pick up.

        1. Clif

          Sadly, I don’t think she’s still planning on dating Joe.

        2. Vaishino

          Well she sure did a bad job of breaking up with him then. Maybe she was saving it up for breaking Dorothy up with Walky.

      5. Burahn

        For me the cheating is still a big itch, but today it’s this scene in the bed, but I think I’ve pinned it down. Despite the lack of a serious reaction to the cheating, we the readers are privy to this and can’t help but feel for Joe. Personally it’s what Joyce says here laid against all the things Joe has said about going slow or taking the time to tell her all that she means to him.

        The readers can see how Gung-Ho Joyce is to punch her V card proper vs Joe who at best did some finger action got a blowie. We see this and read her words and it’s like…Oh…there was nothing Joe could’ve done. She didn’t see him in that light. Never did. It’s like Becky’s realization. Joyce always had a thing for chicks, she just didn’t have interest in them, Becky and Joe.

        I’d really go for those two having a spot of commiserating over it all. The two of them spiral into a real depressive mood because of it too. At least Becky has Dinah to pull her out of it. Joe will likely hammer into himself, increasing his self hate over his past actions and surmising that who he was and is, isn’t worth loving.

        Ahem-! Which is a long walk across the stage to say, it stings a little seeing Joyce go full bore and seeing that Joe’s efforts were ultimately meaningless in this regard at least. I’d rather they don’t go the Poly route. Ultimately Joyce found that she prefers Dorothy, (girls), from her time dating Joe. Let him find someone who loves him totally. Joyce loves Dorothy, he shouldn’t hope for scraps or try to butt in on this burgeoning romance. Let him walk away knowing he gave it his best at least.

        1. thejeff

          Joyce was absolutely into Joe physically. Maybe a bit scared of actual PiV sex, from her fundie upbringing, but she was all over him. She was gung ho there too, it was him who was trying to go slow.
          Hell, she went to break up with him the first time and wound up giving him a blow job instead. That’s not “didn’t see him in that light”

    2. Mona, Just Mona

      my kvetch is i don’t actually know how to pronounce ‘kvetch.’ I think i’ve said it differently every time. none of my relatives have corrected me so I’m clueless.

      1. Dot

        It’s pronounced how it’s spelled. You basically say the k and v at the same time.

      2. Cholma

        I think they actually meant “Kvatch”, you know, the city where the first Oblivion Gate opened. This thread is for posting all the locations where Oblivion Gates have been spotted!

        1. Dot

          No I meant kvetch because I’m Jewish

        2. Dot

          Also, please use she/her pronouns for me only, thank you.

        3. Airyu

          I don’t think Cholma was correcting you, I think just trying to make a joke about Oblivion

        4. Taffy

          The first Oblivion Gate opens in Wyoming, anyway.

        5. Clif

          What part of Wyoming?

        6. Taffy

          Miami.

        7. Clif

          I knew that there was a Miami, Texas, but I didn’t know there was a Miami, Wyoming.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami,_Texas

      3. Bittersweet

        Your teeth need to already be on your bottom lip when you make the “k” noise so it rolls organically into the “vuh”

      4. eh, whatever

        You can say kw, right? Y’know, qu? Do that, but without rounding your lips. (And without raising the back of your tongue.)

        1. VicMortimer

          Pretty sure kw is pronounced kilowatt.

        2. eh, whatever

          No, that’s kW.

    3. Donovan

      I might be sitting out on this one but salutes to the containment thread idea, boss.

    4. Phil

      Over the last few months I’ve realized that I’m reading this webcomic more out of habit than enjoyment. 10+ years of habit is hard to break, I guess, but having these two consistently shoved down my throat for several weeks in a row might just do it.

      1. Abdomino

        I had that with QC for a while. Better to cut the cord. I’m still enjoying myself here, some of the ick notwithstanding, but that’s also my general attitude to living in general.

        1. Phil

          Yea with QC I legit had a moment of “I see where this storyline is going, and if it actually goes there, I’m simply going to drop the comic ’cause I legit don’t want to read that story” so I stopped reading a long-ass time ago.
          I can’t remember why I dropped CAD, tho…I think I just really lost interest (like, way more than with DoA)

        2. Katie

          Which storyline was that?

        3. Taffy

          Faye moving in with Marten

        4. Rimwalker55

          That’s sick burn. 🙂

        5. Taffy

          It wasn’t supposed to be.

        6. Phil

          I don’t remember the names of anyone, but it was the one where main brown-haired girl started hooking up with her robot gal-pal shortly after they started a shop together. It felt less like “yea, this is a situation that makes sense for these characters and the logical next step of their respective character arcs” and more “I want to explore how relationships with robots would work out and these two characters are the best positioned to explore those relationships with (because platonic relationships are apparently impossible in webcomics)”.

          (tbf, I will never related to any storyline that revolves around romantic interest/exploration, no matter what media it’s in or how vanilla/non-vanilla it is, so that storyline, much like the one here in DoA, are quite a challenge, interest-wise)

        7. Thing 2

          If not interested in story lines exploring romantic interest, I’m not surprised you abandoned QC, which even the author summarised as “Spoilers: everybody fucks everybody else, the end.”
          What I am wondering is why you are still here in DoA.

        8. Phil

          Like I said, habit. The comic didn’t start out being 85% shipping :/

        9. Differentiator

          I remember Faye and Bubbles hooking up and starting their business feeling quite organic, actually. They were both in a low place, had some chemistry and needed a job.

          The straw that broke the QC camel’s back for me was Shitty Dan. Just be glad you didn’t read that^^

        10. Emmi

          Faye and Bubbles’ arc with Corpse Witch was actually what got me back into QC after a years-long break. I had to habit drop a lot of webcomics over the years though – Least i Could Do, PvP, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Penny Arcade… all went out the door. I think I still habit read Between Failures… it’s super slow and not super interesting, but the characters are familiar enough for me to linger.

        11. Charlie Spencer

          Emmi, I kicked LICD and Looking For Group to the curb so long ago I can’t even remember which storylines did it. I haven’t looked back. I dropped Between Failures about the same time I originally dropped DoA, and I binged it last month when I did this strip. Now that I’m reading BF regularly, I find I enjoyed it more as a binge and may drop it again. As you noted, it’s slow.

          Unlike others, I still enjoy QC, and Faye and Bubbles in particular. Still, Jeph has been introducing several annoying similar characters lately, although it’s unlikely to run me off.

        12. GUIGUI

          I am seeing a pattern, there.

        13. Drew Hargrave

          I’m also wondering which storyline it was

        14. Liara

          I’d put some quid down it was Marten and Claire getting together

        15. Phil

          Appropriate pfp is appropriate

          but nah, I was fine with that one.

        16. Big Z

          Wait, who doesn’t like Marten and Claire? I’ll fight ’em all at once.

        17. Fuzzy

          I used to like Marten and Claire but Claire got kind of mean to him after a while so I stopped liking it.

        18. 3oranges

          There’s no cord where you either stay attached or not. If you’re not enjoying something, you’re allowed to take a take a break and come back later and see if you like in any more when you don’t have to wait a day between comics. Some things work better that way.

      2. Josh

        Man I FEEL this. I already deleted it from my bookmarks but I’m still here out of habit and I hate it.

        1. Strain Of Thought

          I’ve been visiting this site exclusively via links from other webcomics for years. Deleting the bookmark does *nothing*. It’s like doomscrolling the news, I can’t look away from it and I hate myself for not being able to put it out of mind once and for all. There are so many webcomic archives I wish I had the patience to dive into, but instead I keep coming back to this, even after breaks of many months, apparently because of sunk cost emotional investment that started back in the Walkyverse. I just can’t find any new reliable dailies to replace all the ones that have finished or gone on hiatus or become irregular, so I keep coming back here for another daily hit of hate-dopamine. It’s the stupidest possible kind of addiction.

        2. deliverything

          If you hate it that much, maybe you should try to block the site? I don’t know how you’d do it on whatever you’re browsing this stuff on, but in Windows (with the default setup), it’d be:

          Edit the “hosts” file in your c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc folder and add the following line:
          0.0.0.0 http://www.dumbingofage.com

          Hopefully searching for the equivalent to the hosts file for whatever system you’re using will help you adapt this method. If it works, you’ll just get an error page any time you go to this site.
          It’s kinda a heavy-handed solution, yes, but if you can’t stop yourself coming back, making it impossible seems the best solution.

      3. GUIGUI

        “Shoved down my throat”
        There is no such thing when it comes to a media you can just choose not to read.
        It’s a made up excuse for people who do not actually want to justify why they dislike something and try to pass for the disparaged party instead.

        It’s always a bad faith criticism.

        1. Andy

          Your local library is full of stories. Tired of an author? There are thousands more. And a librarian who can make recommendations. If you’re reading this comic and don’t like it that’s a you problem. Go find something you do like because creators are unlikely to change to meet your specific needs.

      4. Charlie Spencer

        I took a break a few months into the second semester, when Amber was having discussions with her inner Mike. I did a binge last week and find this semester easier on my willful disbelief than the fall’s paternal terrorism.

        As to kvetching, based on my observations of web comics and TV ads, my Darling Bride and I are the only same-race heterosexual couple left in North America. I look forward to finding out how it is to be in the minority.

    5. pjeseb

      I appreciate the effort, but the hatred is too powerful to be contained in a single thread. This comment section is a savage, ravenous hydra, each head constantly tearing off another, only for two angrier, dumber heads to grow in their place.

      1. Nymph

        It actually mostly seems to have worked! So far anyway.

    6. k

      It’s really strange. I look at just the words on the last two panels and they spell out a cute dialogue, but when I put it back in context with these two characters I just don’t feel very emotional about them. More annoyance than anything else really. It’s all feels too saccharine.

    7. DiDi

      I wish I knew how to do one of those many comic edits on Reddit.

      Reading this makes me wanna dry heave. I do not believe in their love. I think it is worthless, forged from the debris that it came from. They’ll have to make this work now because if it crashes and burns, that means everything they fucking did was all for NOTHING.

      OK… I think that’s all I for today. Tune in tomorrow to see if it continues!

    8. Cheshrin

      For me it’s this: Joyce is a big melodramatic purple prose-y dweeb when it comes towards her feelings towards other people, which is perfectly tolerable and even adorable when counterbalanced against more toned-down people, but Dorothy is also a purple-prose-y dweeb about the people she loves, so when they’re together, it’s less a juxtaposition and more of an echo chamber of dramatic prose.

      It’s a schmaltz overload, basically. Which is fine for people who are into it, but I don’t think it would be very compelling for me even without the fact that I’m also a terminal hater of infidelity plots.

      (I also think they both have each other on a pedestal—especially Joyce towards Dorothy—and I don’t think that’s either emotionally healthy or narratively compelling. Part of why I was so intrigued by Joe/Joyce was that they called each other out on their shit; Joyce was constantly holding Joe to task for his misogyny and inappropriate behavior, while Joe called out Joyce’s whole “Destined Romance Makes Deliberate Romantic Interference Okay” thing she was doing between Raidah and Jacob. There was growth and conflict, but also growing respect and understanding. Here, it’s just Joyce going “Dorothy is unconditionally perfect and can do no wrong :)” which is. Boring? I’mma say it: boring. I guess there’s still time for the honeymoon phase to wear off and for something more grounded and interesting to settle in, but after 15+ years of Joyce’s feelings towards Dorothy remaining largely static I’m not sure if I’m holding my breath.)

      1. Jon

        My thoughts almost exactly. Joyce and Joe were sniping at each other for YEARS. Their first date (Galasso’s, Dress, Mike, Punching, Etc.) started off incredibly strong, character-wise, and then they had loads of incredible interactions over the years where they’d be in conflict, or have a surprisingly earnest moment, or have a tense respectful “armed truce.”

        I still remember one of the most “whoa!” moments for me being the reveal that Joyce was actually texting Joe on her trip back home with Becky. A real “ooooh” moment where the story potential spread out in front of them.

        They’d both grown tremendously since their first impressions of each other, and they saw each other through those changes, and they were tentatively helping each other discover a new side of themselves. That’s an example of what draws me to a romance arc.

        Compared to Joyrothy, where Joyce has thought Dorothy was THE BEST since, what, day 3 of college? And then she’s just continued to think Dorothy was perfect, and the change is that she now also wants to smooch Dorothy WHILE calling her perfect.

        Dorothy is more interesting at least, she’s got some broken worldview stuff going on, but notice how even that has now taken a backseat to the romance. I think it’d have been cool if Dorothy had stayed rebellious or jaded post-protest, and part of their courtship had been Dorothy being in shock or despair, and Joyce tries to help her snap out of it. And that could help to fan the romance that began at the protest.

        I dunno, I know it’s not really helpful to propose what-ifs to someone else’s writing. Just wanted to make a point that Joyrothy doesn’t have any flavor like the other exciting romance arcs have. They just…love each other. Because…well, because they love each other. Cue Joyce saying “you’re perfect” twenty more times, and me thinking “that’s a cute and endearing thing for a Leslie Knope -type character to say to her friend, and a vapid and meaningless thing to use as romance dialogue.”

      2. Vivvav

        Yeah, I think my big thing is I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. This relationship is not starting from a healthy place and it’s negatively impacting people around them. Joyce and Dorothy are in a new romance bubble at the moment, and while it’s bounced off some other characters, it hasn’t popped. Walky’s dumping was treated as a joke, Joe is being extremely passive towards being cheated on out of self-flagellation for past sins, Becky is being emotionally devastated but trying to put on a brave face, and Dinah’s response to Becky’s response hasn’t even properly been shown to us as the audience yet. The only meaningful resistance the two have gotten to their relationship is Sarah’s reaction, which isn’t really properly registering with them, even though I think deep down they know the things she’s calling them out for are valid. I’m waiting for all of this to come to a head. I want to see how they’ll handle their special new relationship being a drama bomb in their social circle. And I’m not invested in Joyce and Dorothy as a couple enough to enjoy their honeymoon phase.

        1. Vivvav

          And to follow up, I don’t think any of this is bad writing. I think Willis is doing all this intentionally. It’s just a really slow burn.

        2. OngoingConversation

          Yep, that’s basically my thought as well. They’re teenagers and in a relationship where they’ve been attracted to each other for ages and finally get to do something about it. This is honestly quite relatable for me, as someone who’s been in those shoes. But of course the other shoe is gonna drop once they are done being all new love-y over each other. This is obnoxious, yes, but I think that’s the point: Right now they’re too blinded by this to really register the damage they’re doing. The conses will quence, in time.

    9. Gotthammer

      For a supposed cheating plotline it’s twee and saccharine nothing. I’ve held sponges with more bite. A perfect sphere has more edge.

      It’s badly written, badly paced, insensitive then ham fisted, and relies on characters not acting like people. Nobody asks hey so I know what’s going on with you and Joe/Walky? They’re all just :thumbs up: good job 100 emoji.

      And the tonal flip flopping. It’s serious and urgent. But then it’s just a gag comic don’t be mad. As another person said elsewhere about a different comic:

      “Because even though the comic wants the characters and The Joke to be seperate, they aren’t. 50%+ of every page is The Joke, the characters are their jokes. You cannot remove that from them.”

      Oh and we skipped the lunch but spent two strips on a conversation about pills that went nowhere for some reason.

      1. Kyulen

        I was definitely hoping we would see at least a few strips of Jocelyne, Joyce, and Dorothy eating lunch with Hank and talking about their different views on the protests and such, and I’m disappointed that it was skipped over.

        1. Jon

          Overall I’ve consistently wanted more Hank since the time skip, just because I think it’d be an interesting plot line: how does Joyce behave with her dad as a single parent instead of a seamless unit? And how does Hank handle his fallout with the church?

          I had to make peace with the fact that Willis isn’t going to focus on that storyline: they’re keeping the focus tight on the college students, and Hank will only be there as a foil for the main cast. And that’s a totally reasonable choice (in an already expansive cast), but I was just personally sad about it

      2. Shogeton

        Because it’s not really a cheating plotline? The cheating was a minor ‘oh shit, we love each other, alright, we’ll need a few hours to actually gather the stones to tell our respective partners we’re together’. You cannot compare someone having another relationship on the side and willfully and deliberately hiding it for months or years with two people in a relationship deciding they do need to break up their previous one, knowing that they must do it, and then doing it after a few hours. People are treating those few hours with way more outrage than warranted.

        The only reason people consider it cheating is because Joyce’s non-committal ‘we’ll get back to this later’ on Joe’s proposal of a Poly relationship is cheating? Which I strongly disagree with.

        Are Walky and Joe ok with getting dumped? I don’t think so. Jennifer at the very least seems to be concerned with Walky, and as mentioned, Walky is not someone who’s emotional response is quick. And Joe pretty much got himself ready for it, but is still clinging to the hope of a poly relationship. And this whole thing is caught in the mess of ‘Joe doesn’t feel he deserves good things’

    10. Fuzzy

      my addition to the negativity train:

      C’mon Dorothy, don’t be too impressed. You said that like, two days ago. That’s just simple recall.

    11. Mal

      The thing that really bugs me here–separate from how I feel about the ship itself in the larger context– is how flat Joyce is. She feels like “Insert Romantic/Erotica Novel Cliche Here.”

      At least Dorothy is saying thing that are “unique” to her character. Obviously other inexperienced people could say these things, but Dorothy saying this is very much informed by her character thus far, and her relationship with Joyce: Dorothy is used to being more experienced than Joyce, she likes being prepared and knowledgable, she likes having A Roadmap of what’s going to happen so she can be good at it. All of her lists, and plans, and anxieties are reflected here. They don’t define her, but they are present.

      Joyce is just saying romantic cliches. All of her anxieties about sex: completely gone. All of her well-intentioned but clumsy navigation of LGBTQ topics: completely gone. All of her anxieties about Joe: completely gone. These lines could be have been said by thousands, millions, of blank slate romance MC. Joyce is suddenly confident and suave and erotically sexually dominant, just in time. “Everything will be great, because this is destined and True Love” presented so straight faced feels so…simplistic, given how this comic usually handles the nuances and hurdles of relationships.

      Now, is this an intentional juxtaposition to her relationship with Joe, where she very clearly likes(d) him but was still unsure about the whole sex thing, as opposed to her deep passion for Dorothy? Yeah, probably. And it still feels simplistic and saccharine and flat. We get it: Joyce/Dorothy are perfect shining endgame. They had a wedding moment in the middle of being teargassed, alongside various other people actually there to protest. They broke up with their boyfriends with minimal backlash, with a chance to rub it in to Walky. Joe’s on hold, but Joyce has seemingly forgotten that, so who cares? Everyone just knows they’re together and gay, just, the most gay, even gayer than the gay relationships we’ve seen in this comic thus far. Everyone that might be hurt by this development neatly sets aside their feelings to ensure that Dorothy/Joyce are preserved. And now, the sex is going to be Fantastic And Beautiful, because Joyce has decreed it so.

      It insists, to me. It is a mix of tell and show that sets aside so many of the other characters, and even Dorothy and Joyce’s personalities in this strip, in order to prove Dorothy/Joyce was a good decision at this point in the story.

      1. eh, whatever

        Joyce is just saying romantic cliches. All of her anxieties about sex: completely gone. All of her well-intentioned but clumsy navigation of LGBTQ topics: completely gone. All of her anxieties about Joe: completely gone. These lines could be have been said by thousands, millions, of blank slate romance MC. Joyce is suddenly confident and suave and erotically sexually dominant, just in time. “Everything will be great, because this is destined and True Love” presented so straight faced feels so…simplistic, given how this comic usually handles the nuances and hurdles of relationships.

        Why do you already draw conclusions at the very beginning?

        I think all the above is simply how Joyce right now believes she’s going to feel, and tomorrow or the day after, IRL, it’s all going to break down. Patience.

        1. Jon

          What’s the threshold for that, though? When does it stop being “the beginning”?

          I liked Jacob/Lucy, Becky/Dina, Sarah/Tony, and Joyce/Joe from their very first romantic interactions. There is a way to pull this off so it’s endearing and evocative from the start.

          Meanwhile I’ve felt “meh” about Joyce/Dorothy since the first moment at the protest. They were WAY more interesting to me before, when they ALMOST kissed in Joyce’s bed. But something has been lost in the recent stuff, like all the edges have been sanded off their personalities. I want more friction, even if it’s “good” friction.

    12. Kyulen

      Obligatory and probably already overused joke about us not being able to be contained.

    13. Li

      This was a nice thought. I appreciate it. ?

    14. Scruffy looking nerfherder

      These guys are so drab right now, I won’t deny that they could get better, but as it is right now they’re boring and have nothing going on for them except how madly in love with each other and cute points farming. So sweet it makes you feel your teeth rotting.

      Very boring stuff, even outside of the whole cheating and the specter of Joe’s involvement, or lack there of hanging over the relationship or the lack of consequences or the other million things people have gone over to death. Still gonna read because I love the hell out of the rest of the cast and Willis’ writing other than this has really spoken to me, but these two are just a rare miss to me. Going to keep just rolling my eyes every time they’re on screen and talking about how great it is that they’re so deeply in love with each other and are made for each other and etc etc.

    15. furubatsu

      I think in general, this entire arc is just suffering from being a daily comic strip. By that I mean in the comic? This whole mess has taken 3 days, but for us? From Jocelyne coming out/Dorothy sending tit pics/Joe desciding he wants to be a chef because Macaroni got him a hand job from Joyce, this story arc is approaching a year next month. That’s a long time for a storyline that doesn’t seem to be dragging out a cheating storyline that got outed day one for the characters for readers. With Sarah, Becky and by association, Dina, there is a promise that in Joyce and Dorothy’s post-nut clarity, that this relationship will actually affect the friend dynamic, but I don’t think people nessicarily wanted that to be because of the Becky Dina relationship, as opposed to how it’s affected Walky and Joe, but at the rate the story moves along, and Willis’ penchant for going “:3 I’m gonna keep ending the entirety of this weeks’ strips on cliff hangers” any actual conflict of fallout will probably happen August next year, which can feel like an absolute slog for readers who don’t nessicarily like this storyline.

      Basically, while I do think the way this whole story arc has been handled is jarring and almost sloppy (Why did it need the Palestine genocide as a backdrop? Why have all this buildup about Joe’s issues with infedelity only to have him accept what happened with a shrug/bizzare reveal that he was masterminding a Joyce Poly V setup all along and then forget about him?) readers’ frustration with it is in part because the plot moves at what feels like a snails pace by virtue of the medium it’s in. It can’t be a whole page spread series and enjoy it’s daily length and buffer, but is cant be a newspaper daily and cover enough story line to feel satisfying.

    16. drs

      Much of what I read now is yuri manga, and I write femslash fanfic. But here, Joe and Joyce were way more interesting. And Joyce getting with him then pivoting to Dorothy with minimal guilt feels weird for her character and as a narrative choice.

    17. Big Z

      I’ve said elsewhere in the containment thread some opinions on this ship still being too sweet for my taste buds, but I wanted to expand on that a bit — I do like it when a romantic pairing I like ends up being just perfect and sunshine and rainbows, but generally that’s only the case either when “the external forces arrayed against that pairing are providing the story interest” or “it’s the capstone on a long buildup, and the book closes before the ‘happily ever after’ wears out its welcome”. With the amount of buildup these two have had over fifteen years, I had kinda fully expected them to be an endgame relationship for the story (If you’d have asked me two years ago, I would have found it not unlikely for them getting together to be the signal the strip was ending, with a big “three years later, wedding right after graduation” epilogue) and having them be together now but with very little sign of either internal friction or external travail makes the part of my brain that expects stories to go a way I understand itch.

      That also said, man, there’s a much bigger gap than I’d really expected to see between “hates the ship, thinks DoA is just fine when it’s not just saccharine” and “has been souring on DoA as a whole for a while” because yeah, there’s quite a distance there between the extreme ends of haters as a whole.

      1. Dot

        Agreed. I’m definitely in the first camp myself – I think DOA has had some of the most compellingly written relationships in webcomics, between Billie and Ruth, Danny and Amazi-Girl, Becky and Dina, and even Joyce and Joe, which I was frankly only just coming around on when it blew up (in general straight relationships are a much harder sell to me than gay ones – which makes this whole situation very ironic, frankly). Dojo just does not hit the established threshold of quality that this strip has been capable of.

    18. Opinion

      For me its not even disliking them as a couple. Like if they were real people I knew in real life then fine. Might be some eye rolling at the over the top purple prose lines but they are young and in a new relationship that’s kind of expected.

      It’s the story aspect of it. So much of the comments before the kiss was talking about how they should get together because “think of all the messy drama” and now there just isn’t any drama.

      It’s day after day of saccharine sweet ” everything’s was great, then later it was also great, then it looked like things might be dramatic but don’t worry it was great instead”

      Which again irl is what you hope for. If I was irl friends with these people I would hope everything would work out for everyone forever and everything would be smooth. But as a story if everything is going to work out perfectly, and keep working out perfectly, and always go smooth at some point it’s just not a story anymore.

      1. Yumi

        Yeah, I’ve been deeply disappointed in this aspect. For me, “uninteresting” is one of the worst turns for fiction to take, and this just isn’t interesting for me.

    19. Mojo

      Well… I’m starting to feel rather left behind by the comic. I used to rather enjoy identifying with this or that character, but I’m starting to wonder if EVERY character is going to suddenly become gay or bi or something. I mean, I have NO problem with that kind of thing… it’s just that characters seem to randomly change. I was enjoying the Dorothy content with Walky, then suddenly she’s all in with Joyce. I was enjoying the content with Joyce too, and the growth of Joe, but now it looks like that’s going nowhere. I tried to enjoy Amber and Danny, but then even HE started pining for guys.
      I don’t want to be “that guy,” but I’m feeling like the comic is kind of going off the rails, and I’m not able to identify with anyone, or enjoy any of it.
      I hesitate to say it, but it “feels” like it’s abandoned the characters and stories in favour of the usual politics we get so often these days. That might just be my perception, but I don’t think that makes it an invalid observation.
      I apologize if my thoughts offend anyone, that’s not the intent.

  5. Queen Anthai

    Okay but the alt-text is genuinely the sweetest thing?

    1. NGPZ

      I concur, aaaaaaaaaaaaaah <3 ^^

      (stimmin so much rn)

    2. True Survivor

      It’s a terrible pun. I love it so much.

      1. eh, whatever

        What pun?

    3. Straximus

      It’s somehow legitimately the sweetest part of what was already one of the sweetest strips of the series.

      1. DJTsurugi

        meanwhile just above, the hate comments. I really don’t get it. ~<3

    4. Tan

      I mean it is, but at the same time what’s screwing me up is that I’m hearing it in the voice of the sister going “You’re my present this year” from the Folger’s incest commercial.

  6. RASSILONTDAVROS

    “I learned it from watching you, okay?!?”

    1. RASSILONTDAVROS

      note to self: learn how to type an interrobang

      1. Effie

        I think, first you interro, and then you bang

        1. Steamweed

          Yeah, that’s how most dating processes go. Though uncommon, sometimes it does get reversed.

      2. John Campbell

        Compose-!-? == ‽

        Compose-?-! produces ⸘the inverted interrobang‽

      3. Risky

        note to self: !?‽!?

      4. bubba0077

        On Windows, you can get it via the emoji menu (WIN+; or WIN+.) on the symbols tab.

      5. Taffy

        ‽
        On my phone, I can simply hold on the ? and it’ll show up.

  7. Sirksome

    C’mon. I’m starting to think they’re not listening to my warnings on not trusting stuff.

    1. Dot

      Don’t trust sirksome’s warnings about trust.

      1. Steamweed

        Dunno…not sure I trust that advice.

  8. C.T Phipps

    I admit I’m probably hyping up Dorothy finding out about Joe way too much in my head because it’s drowning out all my appreciation for this.

  9. Snugubus

    beeg gay :3

  10. drs

    You know, long long ago, Joyce told Mike something like she was interested in women above the waist.

    Would be amusing if that came up again.

    1. Dot

      It would be like Mike to come back from the dead just to follow up on that.

    2. Techhead

      It was “it’d be nice in theory, if I didn’t have to deal with any of the parts below the neck”

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/foranybody/

      1. Steamweed

        Yeah, but she wasn’t consistent with that. Though Joyce wanted to crawl up into Sal’s hair (above the neck), she also wanted to crawl up into Billie’s cleavage (definitely below the neck).

      2. Sirksome

        Ooof. Sometimes I forget some of these older moments. Not a great one for Walky there.

      3. Yumi

        Oh hey, there’s the in-comic “if Joyce was gay for anyone, it’d be Becky” thing some people brought up. Knew she didn’t say it to Becky, but here she did say it (well, mostly). Obviously not true, but good to know there’s some canon evidence of her having thought this.

    3. Nymph

      This is a very common sentiment from sapphire people who grew up heavily entrenched in heteronormativity. Also “I like women but couldn’t see myself in a relationship”

      1. Nymph

        Sapphic* thanks autocorrect

        1. Strain Of Thought

          No no it’s a good typo, it’s cute. Also like, Sapphire from Steven Universe totally got the show banned by getting gay married on kid’s television, sooo… yes, sapphire people indeed.

        2. Nymph

          ?Aww okay that’s pretty good.

        3. Dot

          tbh i’m really digging describing myself as a sapphire person

        4. Nymph

          Yeah, tbh I kinda like it too. Maybe I’ll let this one typo slide lol.

  11. Lightweight Baybee

    alr this is going too well
    i love this so much

    but how’s the pendulum gonna swing back the other way willis
    TELL ME YOU BASTARD

    1. Josh

      I don’t have Patreon but I am pretty sure the backswing is when Dorothy finds out Joyce didn’t finish breaking up with Joe.

    2. Shakes

      Why do you think the buffer got so large?
      It’s nothing but these two banging and talking about banging for the rest of time.
      Oh and occasional Asma and Raidah complaining about the white chicks ruining everything strips, you know, for representation and balance.

      1. Shakes

        Wait a minute that’s just leftist 9 chickweed lane

        1. Woof McGee

          You’re not wrong

        2. Big Z

          An accurate representation of why I keep reading — I know Willis will not become what they hate.

        3. Shakes

          It’s all fun and games till two thirds of the strip is legs and psychic demon children.

        4. Steamweed

          But without the frequent forays into ephebophilia.

        5. Vaishino

          “We become what we hate.”

  12. Bittersweet

    Awww. Still not a big fan of the ship, but I love the dialogue here.

  13. Icalasari

    Ok, pausing popcorn of consequences for squeas of adorable

  14. IntangibleMatter

    Dorothy, if you could look up the answers it wouldn’t be as fun

    1. Steamweed

      Yeah! As Dina will definitely advise you, proper science requires changing variables and doing repetitive experiments and evidence-based studies. Lots of lots of them.

  15. Yumi

    Gonna share this Taylor Tomlinson bit— seems relevant to Dorothy and also was relatable af for me.

    1. Yumi

      I’m kind of disappointed Dorothy hasn’t done some research here, but in a way where she hadn’t prepared for things at this exact moment, so she’d just be frantically searching her memory for that top ten tips list she read a while back going, “Okay, so, write out the alphabet with my tongue…”

      1. ValdVin

        I expect our Dorothy to know the Greek or Cyrillic alphabet and proceed accordingly.

    2. Tawnee

      Surprisingly relatable, thanks for the link.

  16. Qube

    god, get a roo- oh wait y’all’re already got a room, nevermind

    1. Qube

      …you ever try to say two different versions of the same sentence at the same time and end up looking dumb?

      1. Yumi

        Sometimes I’ll just randomly think of this and laugh, and you know what, makes my day a little better. So I try to just lean into it when I do it.

      2. Dara

        oh yeah

        interleaved sentences dropped words the whole nine yards

        1. Qube

          dreadful. hate it. ban it immediately I want it GONE

  17. thakoru

    To be fair, Joyce has been on a roll with callbacks today.

  18. brionl

    I’d like to see *that* Pinterest board.

  19. Dot

    It’s a nice sentiment, Joyce, but it’s more realistic to accept that you’re both just gonna be humiliatingly bad at this for at least a little while and your first time together ultimately won’t be much to write home about.

    Save the poetic callbacks for round five, maybe.

    1. Dot

      Not a value judgement. I was 18 with no clue what I was doing once too.

      1. Lee

        Heck, I’ve been *much* older than 18 with no clue what I was doing.

      2. Big Z

        Having tried it both ways, I can highly recommend “doing any given act for the first time with someone more experienced that you can also trust to not be taking advantage of you” over “both of you are fumbling first time idiots”, assuming you can find a suitable partner for the former.

    2. Kyulen

      I would be very surprised if two people who’ve never had this kind of sex before somehow turn out to be really good at it the first time they do it with each other.

    3. thejeff

      OTOH, the rush of new love can make even the fumbling around exciting.

      1. Dot

        Sure, but in my experience that translates to “a pleasant time with someone im crazy about instead of the most humiliating experience of my life” rather than anything particularly transcendent.

  20. anon

    kinds makes me think of that comic like “shouldn’t you /already/ know how to do that?” “not from other angles!”

    1. Qube

      “it’s like tryin’ to use a fork lefthanded it’s goofy”

  21. Reaver

    Wikihow: How to be gay

    Step one: Find person of opposite gender

    Step two: ???

    Step three: Profit!

    1. Annaphylaxis

      Opposite? You sure on that?

      1. Taffy

        Hang on, I wanna see where this is going.

        1. Reaver

          Look I’m aroace and briefly forgot how sexuality works dang it…

        2. Big Z

          Isn’t this why they say “write what you know”? 😀

      2. Reaver

        Well yes, you need to fight them to win over the affection of the same sex gender person you were both gunning for….Totally didn’t forget how gay works for a second

        1. Clif

          Nice save.

          Though I was hoping for something kinkier.

        2. Reaver

          Well the loser sits in the cuck chair-

      3. Gnomedeplume

        That’s where step 2 comes in somehow

    2. John Campbell

      I’m assuming from certain clues that these directions were written by an LLM.

      1. Steamweed

        “LLM”? That some new latest urban wiki term I’m not up on? Lesbian Lust Manager or some shit? (i mean, i’d be damn glad if that’s a thing; seems it’d make things simpler all ’round)

        1. RASSILONTDAVROS

          “Large Language Model”. Basically those Al slop text bots that cheapskate corporations use to write stuff rather than (gasp!) hiring actual people who know what the fuck they’re doing.

        2. Steamweed

          I know. I was making the funny stuff. 🙂

        3. Reaver

          I don’t wanna manage the lesbian lust!

      2. Reaver

        No, just a sleepy, still recovering from a cold Human who briefly forgot how sexuality works in what direction :C

  22. Dean

    Remember Dorothy, you’ll be tested on this afterwards.

    1. Dot

      Frankly Dorothy is probably more comfortable with the written portion than the practical.

    2. Steamweed

      The test isn’t the worrying part. That’s writing up the dang experience and having to figure out the correct _citation_ format!

      1. Ray Radlein

        Correct clitation format

  23. C.T Phipps

    Dorothy has already had sex with Joyce.

    She just can’t accept it.

    1. Lee

      Yes, another #LaundromatTruther!

  24. Taffy

    Dorothy’s cock appreciation thread. Only respond to this with pleasant remarks about Dorothy Margot Keener’s cock.

    I’ll start: She performs the action very well and never in a way that might cause her gun to function suboptimally.

    1. Stanistani

      Dorothy always uses her slide action to make sure a spent one leaves the chamber. No one is left unspent.

    2. Rebecca

      I don’t have as much experience with cock as I would like, at least in other people’s hands, but Dorothy looks like she’s got the methodology down to a science.

    3. QueenofSodor

      as an expert on the subject, my opinion on Dorothy Margot Keener’s cock is that it is cute. that is all,

  25. Dara

    wikihow how to be gay

    (lesbian answer specifically)

    (in case anyone was wondering)

    1. NGPZ

      *looks at image for part 2 of step 1*

      is that Joyce’s outfit on the left??? LMAO IM DEAD XD

      1. deliverything

        Last panel may be relevant:
        https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/earliest/

    2. Dot

      Dorothy: “this isn’t helpful at all! It says nothing about the mechanics!”

  26. NGPZ

    did anyone else notice that they’re thighs are forming a heart shape in the second panel? it cute ^^ <3

    1. Taffy

      It’s a very pleasant detail, for sure.

  27. Lee

    Alright, melt my heart of stone, I really like this one. I still say I’d enjoy the cute stuff a lot more if the fallout from the “btw I didn’t actually finish breaking up with Joe and he wants us to be poly” conversation had come first, though.

  28. Astariel

    Panel 3 is peak Dorothy, and frankly, super relatable. Love Joyce reassuring her and her total self-confidence.

  29. SarahTerra

    Dorothy may have a point about her needing to prep, given that she got her arms trapped by her top and as a result is trying to give Joyce a fully-dressed double thigh job while their faces drive their glasses into each other’s sinus cavities.

    1. Nymph

      Some people enjoy getting their arms trapped by their top.

      1. SarahTerra

        “Oh look at you, poor thing, can’t even use the Internet to figure out how to respond! And your carefully-indexed list of my sexual wants is waaaayyy over there on the desk where you can’t see it.”

        1. SarahTerra

          FRIG I wrote that, refreshed the main page, and Dorothy had undone it all! So to speak!

  30. K. Bray

    I am not going to enjoy the part where Joyce springs on Dorothy that she’s assuming poly relationship with Joe is okay. ?

    Everything is going too well and too in-line with my fanfc!

    I write that stuff knowing it’s ridiculous, it’s very upsetting for it to be actually kinda, sorta close to reality.

    1. Thing 2

      Um, it is still fiction, even when somebody else writes it…
      Or did you mean similarity between your fanfic and Willis’ version? If so, that just means you are as clever as Willis, surely!

    2. RocketRelm

      I don’t actually know if she’s assuming that yet. My personal presumption is the horny has made her lose object permanence in regards to Joe, and once she got wrapped up in the business went on about her day and night and may need to be reminded he exists again before emotionally dealing with that.

      1. Shogeton

        She said she’d give him an answer to him later. And later is not now. She is absolutely entitled to let her emotional bandwidth be fully consumed by enjoying the happiness of her relation with Dorothy and come back to Joe’s question when her heart’s calmed down.

        Joyce is not assuming Dorothy is okay with it. She is not, currently, in a poly relation or cheating. She broke off the monogamous relation with Joe, and Joe offered a poly relation, which she didn’t say yes to, but didn’t close the door on for later. Currently, the only person she’s in a relationship with is Dorothy.

        If Joyce, after thinking, decides that she’s okay with it, thenshe can bring up the matter with Dorothy. Honestly, as another fanfic writer, I don’t think there’s anything ridiculous about how things are progressing here.

        1. Dot

          Here we come back to the endless debate: did Joyce actually break up with Joe or not? Whether or not you consider Joyce’s delay in telling Dorothy to be okay or not depends almost entirely on where you fall.

        2. thejeff

          I think of it more in terms of intent. “Did she actually break up with Joe or not?” is more legalistic than social relationships usually work. It’s not a matter of whether the “broke up” box was properly checked off before she and Dorothy have sex (again), it’s how Dorothy reacts to what she finally says about it, if anything.
          If she’s rejected the idea, then it’s just a minor footnote and not likely to cause any problems. She just needs to get back to Joe relatively soon and let him know it’s not going to happen. Probably should mention it to Dorothy at some point, but it’s not critical.
          If she does want to and Dorothy’s not into it, I doubt “It’s okay that I didn’t tell you sooner because I’d checked the ‘broke up’ box first, even though I was already thinking about it” will make Dorothy any happier.

        3. Shogeton

          I don’t know on that last note. It’s not about the legalese, but about the position Joe has right now. Joe isn’t dating Joyce, he isn’t going to make any further romantic movements at her, there’s not going to be any kisses, the current status quo, Joyce and Joe are not romantically attached, it’s just that Joe has made a proposal to make that romantic attachment.

          I don’t think Dorothy’s initial reaction to a poly proposal will be very positive. But I also think that will mostly be with ‘It’s Joe’ and the fact that Joe made that offer X days before, and Joyce didn’t feel like making any decision then and there and just put it in the ‘deal with this later’ bin isn’t going to be an issue at all. And I dread that a lot of people are hyping themselves up for a ‘consequence’ that just isn’t going to come, because to me, and to many others, it’s not really something that we expect Dorothy to care about.

      2. Vulcanodon

        losing object permanence – yeah that is a legit autistic thing. I’ve just recently been told I’m callous and insensitive when really the whole situation is so overwhelming that I find it hard to actually respond at all

        1. Throwatron

          yeah this is where I’m at right now; how is the entire comment surprised that the two obviously neurodivergent women have spent two straight days neurotically flitting about between crises, while being perpetually hyper-fixated on whatever particular thing is in front of them, and losing all track of time and space beyond that?

    3. Miroku2235

      Oh I am going to savor that moment.

    4. GUIGUI

      I don’t think Joyce consider it defacto okay, but she’ll feel the need to at least tell Dorothy that Joe made her that proposition, for the sake of honesty, but fully expect and support Dorothy to be against it and put absolutely no pressure in making her accept. But she would also tell her that if Dorothy is actually fine with it that she might actually consider it.

  31. Polar

    SCReaming an d throwing up out of love and jeaously augh

  32. Thing 2

    Yeah, I did all the embarrassing what-do-I-do-now stuff with boys when I was a teen, largely because girls said no very firmly and boys said yes enthusiastically (and it was so long ago that girls with girls was very naughty). By the time I realised I was bi, and that that was OK, it was way too embarrassing to go back to teenage fumbling. Get over it now Dorothy, don’t wait until post middle age!

    1. Big Z

      Ooof, that’s a mood. Hell, it took my partner going enby and a couple of other moments for me to really internalize “hey there are some AMAB folks who are kinda cute actually” and “your forties” is not the time to try to START figuring out how to navigate that dating space no matter HOW long you’ve been poly.

      1. Nymph

        I hope, for both your sakes, that you do/have gone ahead and starting figuring that stuff out! Late Discovery Queer is common enough that just letting people know in advance will probably wiggle you past a lot of the weirdness!

        I know it’s anxiety inducing, but if you want it and it’s safe and fun to get it, I hope you go for it!

        1. Big Z

          Heh, I mean, full disclosure — I am a 40+ white cis male who has a very “biker/trucker dad” aesthetic, my major dating problem for YEARS has been that literally everyone reflexively distrusts me unless they get to know me (for damn good reason!) ESPECIALLY the kind of femboi-/twink-presenting dudes I tend to be attracted to. 😀

        2. Li

          I promise you. There are FLEETS of queer men for whom that is their exact type actually.

        3. Big Z

          I’m aware, but I’m also aware from experience that unless I lean full-on into some particular ways of acting that are (frankly) a poor fit on me, they are often wary I’m either a chaser or a closet-right-wing-asshole (or both).

        4. Li

          🙁

          I’m sorry. I know you’ve accepted it as being totally understandable, but that kind of thing does wear on a person, and even though they’re not doing it to hurt you, it’s okay to feel hurt by it. Feeling hurt by it isn’t bad allyship.

          It’s always what we do with our feelings, not the feelings themselves, that matters.

  33. The Big One

    Woo! The sapphics get to be unburdened by angst for one more page!*

    *She said, fully realizing the only reason Willis would let them be this happy is if they were setting up for some biiig Angst Bullshit down the line.

    1. Adam Black

      This

    2. Throwatron

      if joyce actually ends up single after all this it will make so many people so satisfied that i almost want it to happen just so somebody out there gets a win

  34. aSnowyEvening

    D’awww. Also I love the positioning in panel 1.

    Can someone help a sleep-deprived mom out by dropping a link to the original conversation Joyce referenced? Because I definitely have no recollection whatsoever.

    1. John Campbell

      Dorothy gave Joyce that advice about her first time with Joe.

  35. Ludaire

    I don’t care how many people are down about these two. I love them and wish the best for them. :3

  36. Arianod

    OK, this is just adorable and it’s not fair.

  37. GUIGUI

    *bending myself down*
    *like literally to the ground level*
    (ouch, my back!)
    *like, literally picking the fruit whose branch is so low it’s directly touching the ground*
    “SHE IS GOING TO BE SCREWING SOMEONE ALRIGHT!”
    *hear a crack, can’t stand up, my back is blocked*
    (Worth it anyway)

  38. Needfuldoer

    Did these two swap brains at some point?

    1. Throwatron

      that’s kinda been the on-going story arc, yeah. Dorothy was Joyce’s codependent keeper while Joyce’s life was in perpetual crisis, and Joyce fell in love with that very behavior, and immediately mirrored it back onto Dorothy, who is now, herself, living through a cosmic shift in her beliefs and priorities.

      The two have been character foils from the very beginning of the comic, which I’m starting to suspect, is the reason why so many people feel that their pairing produces strips that are bland as wallpaper paste. It’s like, if someone doesn’t personally possess an embarrassing codependent streak in their own love life, then there’s nothing else really going on, here, besides codependents Doing Their Thing.

      1. Big Z

        That’s a fairly good insight, I think.

  39. Slartibeast Button, BIA

    Don’t know about now, but I recall a USENET FAQ on this back in the day.

  40. darkoneko

    “I’m gonna screw something up”. or you know, someone.

  41. Chris Phoenix

    I’m getting the sense that although they’re really into each other emotionally, and romantically (at least the teenage version of romance), and they’re great friends, and they like each other a lot… maybe they’re about to discover that they’re just not very into each other sexually?

    In all the other relationships in this strip, I’ve picked up on the visceral attraction the partners had for each other. Here, I’m not feeling it. It feels like they’re trying really hard to convince themselves that they want to do this, but maybe they’re both…. too straight-ish?

    It kind of feels like it’ll fizzle the way the Walky/Lucy relationship did. Just … not work out somehow.

    I’m not hoping for this outcome, and I’m not complaining about the storyline. I like seeing people who like each other be cute and sexy together. But this relationship just doesn’t feel like the sex part is nearly as strong as the friendship part.

    1. Astariel

      Really? With all the blushing and lip-biting and barely being able to stop kissing for five minutes? With Joyce telling Dotty with a big grin that she’ll just have to fuck the fundie out of her and practically launching her into space when the elevator’s taking to long to get them back to their room?

      Plus, from a Doylist perspective, I seriously doubt Willis has gone through all this setup and drama just to have them go, ‘Ew, girl parts, never mind then.’

      1. Nymph

        I do think it’s interesting how this goalpost moves for people wrt Joyce/Dorothy.

        First it was “They’re both straight, you’re reaching”
        Then “Joyce is straight and Dorothy is bi and it’ll be so sad for her”
        Then “Okay they’re both a lil gay, but Dorothy is Like A Mother to her so it’s gross and won’t work.”
        Now it’s “Is it me, or do they not want to fuck each other as much as they wanted to fuck dudes?”

        I’m excited to see what the next line in the sand is after they blow past this one!

    2. Big Z

      I really don’t see the basis for this take — since the “they’re clearly bi” side of this has already been addressed, I’m going to address the other side )for half of the couple, anyway):

      Joyce was WAY more hesitant (to the point of deciding away from it at zero hour) when she had cock-portunity with Joe on their date, after literally prepping herself for it for hours. If she was “too straight-ish”, she’d be hemming and hawing about stuff with Dorothy “more” than she was with Joe, not “significantly less and with no angsting to a trusted friend etc.”

      If you say “then why didn’t they fuck last night”, I’ll remind you that A) they were still worrying about coming out/being found out, and B) they probably still smelled vaguely like tear gas and protest adrenaline.

      1. Doopyboop

        Plus when Joyce say, mentions that being with Sal would be easy if she doesn’t have to go beneath the neck, it’s a Joyce that has never explored herself. For all she knew, the vagina was a sea monster or something. Now that she’s gotten herself off at least twice, as well as Joe doing some finger action down there, lady parts are no longer a mystery to her. Yes, she’d have to be at a different angle with Dorothy, but she loves Dorothy, she’s excited to be with Dorothy, and she’s very, very much embracing this.

  42. Bryy

    I know it is cynical as fuck but whenever they go “I love you”, I roll my eyes.

    1. Roe

      they’re definitely cringey lol

  43. Rimwalker55

    Wow, I used to hate that going to the comments section always drops down to the very end, so this morning I get the morning coffee and figure I’ll scroll to the top and read comments in the correct order. Kinda a mistake. First sixty minutes full of people saying how they hate D0A. Go to bed people. It reads better in the morning.

    1. Big Z

      I’m gonna endorse this in particular — I mean, it’s no secret that I don’t like this ship and I haven’t been impressed with this storyline, but jeez it’s okay to just stop reading it if you are actually reading out of “habit” instead of “I expect it’ll return to the bits I like soon enough”.

    2. deliverything

      In this case, at least, it was a thread intended to isolate the hate-comments from the rest… Just happened to be a LOT of hate-comments, and with that thread being so near the top… well…
      On the other hand, the comments outside that thread seem a lot happier, on average, than they’d been on previous days.

      1. Dot

        The containment thread works! I’m a genius!

        1. Rimwalker55

          I smell Nobel Prize! 😀

        2. Dot

          Please read the above comment in the voice of a mad scientist

        3. Big Z

          Oh no! Dot’s gone mad with power! What will she do next?

        4. Dot

          Here’s a hint: it involves Danny, and two blue tablets under her tongue

        5. Nymph

          OH NO!!! She’s transing the Dannies!!!!

          Oh, wait, that’s fine actually.

        6. deliverything

          “Danny’s a good egg.”

        7. Big Z

          Instructions unclear, Danny has taken two of the OTHER little blue pills and is now hulking out in some ultimately harmless/hilarious but phallic way.

        8. Big Z

          … or maybe it was one of each, and Danny’s tripping the estro-viagra frontier.

        9. Throwatron

          honestly it was a very nice idea and did help, you always remain very cool

  44. Alan in DC

    Today’s strip reminds me of that old frog joke —

    “Okay you little bastard, move over… I’m gonna show you this just ONE last time”

    1. eh, whatever

      Please explain the joke, I don’t know it and don’t get it.

      1. Alan in DC

        Bumper-sticker version: guy meets girl in a bar, pulls a frog out of his pocket, says the frog is an expert at “goin’ down”. Curious, she takes them back to her place, and prepares for the experience. The frog just sits there and does nothing. The guy shoves the frog out of the way and says . . .

  45. eh, whatever

    “Just kissing”… and… tickling. :-S

    1. Dot

      Tickling can be very enjoyable for some people

  46. Da Boy

    Oh Dotty you adorable nerd.

  47. Rimwalker55

    They’re so cute. Takes you back to the time when everything was new and wonderful and unknown.

    1. Jernacious

      How about an inaugural poop?

      1. Dot

        No harm in experimentation, but I’d advise against that kind of play in a shared living space

  48. Warmth

    The big wave is coming at the right moment and time, will you surf or crash?

  49. Steamweed

    I’m sure there are like 2 or 3 websites on how to be gay.

    (oh, sure, there are lots about how to be gay and do crimes…but just how to be gay, those are the rare ones. only find those on page 2 of the google search)

  50. Hannah

    I really can’t tell anymore whether I always disliked this ship or not. Did I always dislike them together, or have all the negative comments about them poisoned my perception of them?

    I’m sure I remember being excited at one point when Dorothy was discovering she was in love with Joyce, maybe I just didn’t like it once it was reciprocated? And I must admit I’m a big Joece shipper so that might have soured me on them getting together. Again, it’s really hard for me to remember.

    Maybe it would be a good idea to stop reading the comments so I stop being so influenced by them, but a lot of the people here make really interesting observations so I’m not sure if I want to take such drastic measures.

    It’s not anyone’s fault, the comments sections purpose is for people to complain about things they didn’t like and praise the things they do like, it’s just a bummer that it’s potentially shaping the way I view the comic so much in a negative way.

    Hope everyone’s doing well

    1. Throwatron

      “Maybe it would be a good idea to stop reading the comments so I stop being so influenced by them, but a lot of the people here make really interesting observations so I’m not sure if I want to take such drastic measures.”

      i feel this so damn hard fr fr

  51. Getes

    You don’t have to rush the kissing. It’s one of the best parts, along with all of the other parts.

    1. Dot

      I honestly do like kissing more than sex! It’s a normal preference to have.

  52. Wilde

    I was rereading old panels and I came across this gender studies prophecy

    I’m curious if people think this arc is “correcting” Dorothy from her career path – currently Dorothy is burned out and pretty focused on her love life. On the other hand, the established context that Willis is well aware this is something done to women in media could mean there’s an exploration coming.

    Do you think Dorothy will regain some career motivation? Would Joyce encourage Dorothy to aim high again? And what about Joyce, is she over her trad-wife goals or will that choice be a struggle for her?

    I’m putting hopeful bets on Dorothy’s eyes opening and realizing that she wants to actually DO something, not make herself a pointless figurehead. She wants to help people but just doesn’t know how. I could see her as a great non-profit grants administrator or something like that. Realistic, tangible, more true to her skillset.

    1. Dawn

      Last time Joyce thought about her future, she realized that yeah, she DOES want to do elementary education. Not for tradwife homeschool reasons, but because she thinks teaching little kids will be fun. She absolutely adores little kids, after all.

  53. ScienceOfFantasy

    I’m not convinced the fallout of their coupling is going to have HUGE DAMAGING consequences. There are lingering threads of Joe, who says he’s cool with it, and Amber, who set it up, but ultimately the decisions were made by Joyce and Dorothy and I believe this is the most honest they’ve been with themselves in a long time.

    That does not excuse any collateral damage, but when you’re in a situation like this and you have to make a choice with no way do avoid hurting someone, the honest play is often the best one. Circumstances differ of course, but in this scenario, Joyce recognizing back at the protest that it was a make-or-break moment for them was key. If she had held back and not said anything or not kissed her, it was likely Dorothy could have cemented this idea that she never gets to have the thing she wants, which would have caused so much more emotional turmoil for herself down the line; for Joyce’s part, holding back might have regressed her to this state of sexual/emotional repression, which she had just broken. It was better for them overall to damn the consequences and be honest with themselves.

    I think people are capable of recognizing that honesty in others. Peiple are a lot more forgiving than we tend to believe, and sometimes it’s not worth holding onto the damage someone has caused you if you’ve been on the other end of it.

    1. Astariel

      I think this is a really good analysis and I totally agree. I think a lot of people who argue that they should have waited to kiss until they broke up with their boyfriends first are not grasping the urgency and unexpectedness of the moment it happened.

  54. Li

    Still trying to keep my comments participation to a minimum, but I just have to say:

    Thank you, Willis?

    Not to get too personal, but. It’s really nice, and reaffirming, to be reading these two right now. There’s a lot of societal pressure to have a Perfect First Time and I’ve always been in agreement with the general “haha, but seriously your first time will be so much better if at least one of you knows what you’re doing” self-deprecating humor, but……

    With these two, you’re reminding me that actually, if you really care about the other person, it’s impossible for your first time to be something you regret.

    They might be about to have all sorts of clumsy first time embarrassments, but they’re still going to have a good time together. This won’t have been a mistake, neither of them have to go Be With Someone Else first. They’ll learn together, and it’ll be okay.

    (Putting aside my lingering anxiety about rug-pulls for the moment.)

    It’s just genuinely making this ace enby feel less anxious about something personal, and… yeah, thank you.

    1. deliverything

      For what it’s worth: in Leftover Soup (another webcomic), there was a running gag of two people who were in love but kept messing up the sex part*. They kept trying, nonetheless, because they considered their relationship worth the difficulties.

      *I’m avoiding details because spoilers, but do want to pass on one lesson they learned the hard way: make sure to clean off any residue from spicy peppers before interacting with your partner’s sensitive bits.

      1. Li

        Heh, that sounds nice too (apart from the peppers). Thanks. ?

    2. Amós Batista

      Thank you, Willis

      1. Li

        ❤️

    3. Astariel

      That’s lovely, and it is a wonderful thing about this relationship.

      1. Li

        ❤️

    4. Throwatron

      FWIW i think you’re great and generally bring a very reasonable point and perspective to the comments section, but i also get pulling back a bit, with the way things have been, lately

      1. Li

        Thank you.

        I just… yeah I was real hair trigger the other day, and I don’t wanna be that person! I especially wanted to take a break while I was still just being sharp with people, where I regret my tone but at least not outright saying stuff I feel guilty about. If that makes sense.

        A break will do me well ❤️ and thank you for the kind words.

  55. Pappenheimer

    Way off topic for the events depicted in the current strip, (heh heh he said ‘strip’) but IU very recently killed the student paper for “criticism of the Whitten regime and IUs further slide into Fscst (sic) control*” which couldn’t be allowed be on the stands during Homecoming Week when all the rich Alumni come into town.
    Except that the PU student paper (which owns its own presses) printed the verboten issue, drove it over the Bloomington and stocked all the boxes. “just in time for Homecoming.”
    “Solidarity*” indeed.

    *all quotes from Gretchen Whitmer, thanks Gretchen

    P.S. apologies if this was already discussed and I missed it

    1. Clif

      I don’t know which university PU is, but good for them.

      1. deliverything

        Pimento University? Do we have the Dover Boys to thank for this?

      2. NickG

        Perdue which is IU’s traditional rival (Mike is wearing a Perdue shirt in the old ‘Football Crowd’ poster).

      3. Big Z

        Purdue, which IIRC normally collectively feels mutually about IU (in sports terms, at least) that this counts as an enemies-to-lovers arc.

  56. Pappenheimer

    dammit, should he Sara, not Gretchen. This is my off day.

    1. Yumi

      Makes more sense; Gov. Gretchen Whitmer has done *some* okay stuff, but I was really doubting she’d say that.

  57. Amós Batista

    Of course they loved each other way before the first kiss.

  58. Clif

    On the poll, I was torn between the third and fifth option.

    But the fifth was kind of true but afterthoughty, so I went with donuts, which are also sweet.

    1. Clif

      Wait, the order of the options reshuffled. Okay, I was torn between donuts and Billie and Ruth.

      If it wasn’t against my religion to pay for porn, the answer might have changed.

      1. Nymph

        What religion allows free porn but not the for-pay kind?

        1. Dot

          Cheapskatology

        2. Pappenheimer

          Patron saint: Jack Benny

          Five Hells, I am SO old. 3/4 of those here may have to look Jack up.
          Mugger: your money or your life!
          Jack: …..
          Mugger: Did you hear me? I said, your-
          Jack: I’m thinking! I’m thinking!

        3. Dot

          I know who Jack Benny is, but that’s mostly because I used to listen to old radio shows on long car trips as a kid.

        4. Clif

          Congratulations on your deductive ability tho.

  59. yak

    Who knew Joyce was such a sweet-talker.

  60. DashWallkick

    There’s something really specific about how she’s kind of different between Dorothy and Joe. She’s all sexual aggression and sweet talk here, then with Joe she’s gleefully putty in his hands. Joyce the switch.

    1. Dot

      My girl needs to get her hands on a strap

      1. Throwatron

        It’s one more opportunity to be better at something than Walky, I think Joyce would get pretty damn passionate about topping Dorothy’s proverbial high score tables.

  61. Dot

    Damn Willis really got me good with that poll. I stare at most strips in this series hoping they’ll turn into one about Billie and Ruth.

    1. Donovan

      Ruth should be in every strip

      1. Dot

        When Ruth isn’t in a strip, all the characters should be asking, “where’s Ruth?”

    2. Amós Batista

      I didn’t get the 3rd one.
      (Only waiting for this, before I vote to “Questionable Content, because I thought Willis and Jaques were lovers”)

  62. Yeet

    re: the poll
    where do I collect my doughnuts

    1. Throwatron

      never believe what the internet tells you 🙁

  63. Suet

    Wikihow? In THIS economy?

    yeah you’ve practiced it a lot since *checks notes* yesterday

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