Yes, I actually think it’s cute. Not cute in a “yay bigotry” way but because she’s willing to admit that God isn’t all that and her family might actually be more tolerant than they seem, and *that’s okay*. Joyce at the beginning of DOA would’ve shrieked about the Bible.
Oh yeah, very much so. And there’s preview panels of their church so we’re definitely following the Brown clan to church. I’m gonna guess that Sunday is going to get real real bad for Joyce.
thejeff
And for Becky. Have the previews shown Becky in church?
There’s also the youth pastor – important enough to get his own character model preview.
Ah crap. I’d forgotten about the whole taking the car without informing the parents. If Joyce were a good liar she coulda said her phone ran out of battery and thus would be unable to contact anyone. Unfortunately she’s not a good liar.
Nono
Well John thought Joyce was meeting him for lunch, so there’s plausible deniability there if John hasn’t talked to their parents yet.
JustCheetoDust
Given the way he acted, Joyce probably isn’t that lucky.
I can understand why none of them contacted the parents — they all have reasons to avoid them — but from the Brown parents’ PoV, unless there’s been back-channel stuff from Jocelyn or Jon about that lunch meeting, their daughter, her best friend, and their car have been missing since dawn with no word.
You’d think a text asking “Hey, did you take the car?” or >something< would've come in. That no simple, drama-preventing communication has been shown suggests to me stuff is being saved up…
Yup, especially when combined with Carol arguing so strenuously for her being sequestered and removed from college. That there isn’t a single “what the fuck” call or text or a single “did you take the car” or even a single “you made us so worried” means that when they get home, it’s going to be genuinely awful and abusive.
And all the calmness and peace of this moment will give way to panic and fear again. Because that’s what Carol is best at.
Marie
I get why they wouldn’t want to, but Jocelyn texting like “hey Joyce is hanging out with me, sibling catch up time :),” esp directed to hank, seems like way more preemptive damage control than risk.
Actually now that I think about it, has Willis stated how Jocelyn rolls, sexual attraction wise? I know she said she wasn’t gay when she met ethan, but was it ever clarified if she meant from a closeted or non closeted perspective?
He’s mentioned that Joss likes dudes. (I don’t remember if he specified ‘only’, but she’s definitely not a lesbian.) It’s fairly deep in his Tumblr at this point, so I can’t find the specific post, unfortunately.
But also, characters have (for the most part) their canon sexualities from the Walkyverse. Carla may be a slight exception because she’s a trans female human, instead of a trans-chasis homoromantic robot, but I’d assume the closest counterpart to that is that she’s romantically into women in this comic.
Achallenger
man sexuality is *complicated*
Jason
I’m a heteroflexible panromatic poly transman who used to be all sorts of confused as to why I was primarily attracted to women but also repulsed by the idea of having lesbian sex. Sexuality can be confusing as all hell!
Nowadays my sexuality just confuses everyone else.
Austyn
I agree 100%
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Carla is so cute in that strip. Thanks for reminding me.
Which I absolutely love, because Carla and Ultracar are like the only two characters I know of in any fiction who share my identity and sexuality in that way (homoromantic asexual trans women).
As I recall, she said, “I’m not actually gay” (followed by “but you are”) which implied to me that she does like guys given the context – she’d be gay if she was a guy. But she’s not a guy, so.
(Could be bi or pan or w/e of course, but that was what was said.)
Jason
The wording heavily suggested (to me) that she was into dudes only, but that she wasn’t gay (because, you know, woman.)
It was something like “despite what people think I’m not actually gay”, I believe. Which suggests that people think she’s a gay man, rather than any other sexuality.
So- I think she’s straight? But I will wait for it to be stated explicitly.
Jason
Wow, no, I was well off the mark there. But that was how I read it, that she’s not gay despite only being into dudes. I don’t know why my brain put in a whole ‘nother line that does not exist and hasn’t anywhere ever.
Seems fairly simple, we know her gender and we know she’s not gay. So she’d be attracted to men.
Chris Phoenix
She said “I’m not gay” to someone who, she knew, saw her as a man. She could expect him to interpret this as “I’m not attracted to men.”
Given that Willis has said that Joss likes dudes, then she apparently was not choosing her words to convey the most accurate information possible about herself given what Ethan knew. Instead, she was probably describing herself from her own point of view.
Of course, if she eventually plans to present as female, then she might expect that a gay man would be less physically attracted to her… so she might have been telling a white lie so as not to get his hopes up.
ninja_jesus
She said “I’m not actually gay”, which is a totally different thing. To me it means that Joss liking guys is no different from Joyce or Dorothy liking guys.
This. And being a straight trans woman, she’s probably gone through the gauntlet of people going “why don’t you just be gay” and potential partners with masculinity issues thinking that dating a trans woman somehow makes them gay.
So that would be a very important distinction for her.
thejeff
I kind of doubt she has. I doubt she’s far enough out of the closet anywhere to even consider dating as a woman. Or willing to open up to anyone she’s not already sure won’t give her the “why don’t you just be gay” routine.
Maybe not. Maybe she’s got more of a secret life than I think. It would surprise me though.
We know she’s at least out online and it’s been implied that she’s out to her college friends (the ones she left to hang out with during Parent’s weekend). I’m suspecting she may have been slightly out in college but terrified of making any big steps because parents (knew so many of those types of kids when I volunteered as a trans mentor for a college campus).
“Amazing how they haven’t entertained the notion that maybe Joss is gay (even though it’s more complicated than that)… babby steps FTW”
Statistically, though, it’s more likely that he “knows a gay guy.”
On a more human level, it’s probably just harder entertaining the notion that someone who you ostensibly know so well is actually different in such a significant way from what you imagined, rather than entertaining the notion that the person simply “knows a gay guy.”
Though it should probably be a bit easier for both Becky and Joyce, since Becky has experienced hiding that sort of thing, and Joyce has already been on the “getting new information” end of this equation *at least* once: With Becky. Actually, probably *twice,* because Ethan is gay….or *three* times, with Dina, whatever her specific situation is. That’s not even counting the fact that she had to revise her views after learning that Dorothy’s an atheist.
It’s mildly surprising that Joyce isn’t freaking out more than she is. She’s had her entire worldview flipped on its head, in so many ways, in the last, what, month and a half? It only seems gradual to us because, depending on when we started reading, it’s been up to five and a half years. But Joyce has gone through all this character development, not to mention the drugging/attempted rape and dealing with the gun-wielding father of her best friend on campus (and subsequent car/motorbike chase).
It’s the reason why she’s been super inside her head of late. She’s changed a lot really fast and has learned the truth about a lot of people she was raised to hate and is still reeling from all she is experiencing all at once.
Considering Jocelyne’s interaction with Ethan back on Parent Day, I would guess that Jocelyne likes girls still. So technically I guess she is gay, but not according to Joyce who still sees her as her brother (due to a lack of information).
Way back at the end of her first appearance on Family weekend, when she sent Ethan a link to her writings, using her real name “jocelynejbrown.com”.
That’s not absolutely clear in itself, but it’s been confirmed by Word of God. All the tags changed to Jocelyne as soon as it was revealed, which was another strong meta clue.
But it’s not John who’s trans. John’s the bigot missionary oldest brother. The rest of the family knows Jocelyne as “Joshua”.
You’d be astounded at how dense people can be when it comes to coming out. I’ve had people who I *told* claim that there’s no way they could have known. Those straight/cis goggles can be strapped on mighty tight at times.
I was bad at chemistry so that took a while to get.
Cerberus
When I teach chemistry, I’m fond of saying the transition metals are the genderfluid elements, cause you gotta ask for their current charge pronouns before you can proceed forward in naming and balancing.
Falling Star
Which is a bongo and a half trying to figure out if you haven’t had a proper chemistry base learning.
But does Joyce know that Jocelyne knows that Ethan is gay? They did meet pre Ethan telling Joyce he’s gay, right? Jocelyne knows, obviously, because Ethan basically told her (and was flirting with her). But at least on ‘screen’, as it were, Joyce and Jocelyne haven’t had the ‘oh btw, Ethan is totes gay’ convo, right?
293 thoughts on “Chat”
Zamer
Oh man that was beautiful
arosebyanyothername
Jocelyne and Joyce are so adorable together! I wanna see them interact more!
miados
almost makes me wish my brother and i were closer…… almost.
DarkoNeko
They looks like they took their parent’s car early this morning, and now it’s night and … gosh, I really hope Joyce asked them first.
Ana Chronistic
Amazing how they haven’t entertained the notion that maybe Joss is gay (even though it’s more complicated than that)… babby steps FTW
Have they even gone back to the Browns’ house since running off with the car?
Rosicrucian
It’s the possibility Joyce can arrive at because it’s how she herself had to relax her views.
mistrali
Yes, I actually think it’s cute. Not cute in a “yay bigotry” way but because she’s willing to admit that God isn’t all that and her family might actually be more tolerant than they seem, and *that’s okay*. Joyce at the beginning of DOA would’ve shrieked about the Bible.
Nono
Nope. Momfrontation incoming.
Shaunock
The best way to avoid the dreaded Momfrontation is to hide under a blanket.
Ask me how I know.
DarkoNeko
You have pets ?
Sparks
Little-known fact: mothers don’t have object permanence?
AndroidDreams
A* comment
foamy
No, and as best I can recall, despite them being gone for the whole day there’s been no attempts to communicate from their parents.
This is the setup to a dramabomb. 🙁
Cerberus
Yup, shit’s gonna be bad when they get home.
Rosicrucian
Storyline ends on… I think June 8?
That’s a lotta strips before we get Joyce sitting forlorn in her bed.
Needfuldoer
Saturday ends on the eighth.
We’ll probably see more of Joyce’s parents tomorrow, especially if the comic follows the Brown clan to church.
Cerberus
Oh yeah, very much so. And there’s preview panels of their church so we’re definitely following the Brown clan to church. I’m gonna guess that Sunday is going to get real real bad for Joyce.
thejeff
And for Becky. Have the previews shown Becky in church?
There’s also the youth pastor – important enough to get his own character model preview.
Austyn
Oh no oh no. I anticipate with dread.
Tacos
Ah crap. I’d forgotten about the whole taking the car without informing the parents. If Joyce were a good liar she coulda said her phone ran out of battery and thus would be unable to contact anyone. Unfortunately she’s not a good liar.
Nono
Well John thought Joyce was meeting him for lunch, so there’s plausible deniability there if John hasn’t talked to their parents yet.
JustCheetoDust
Given the way he acted, Joyce probably isn’t that lucky.
Marie
Throughout, I’ve been hoping (but seeing no evidence) that Jocelyn would make the call.
foamy
I can understand why none of them contacted the parents — they all have reasons to avoid them — but from the Brown parents’ PoV, unless there’s been back-channel stuff from Jocelyn or Jon about that lunch meeting, their daughter, her best friend, and their car have been missing since dawn with no word.
You’d think a text asking “Hey, did you take the car?” or >something< would've come in. That no simple, drama-preventing communication has been shown suggests to me stuff is being saved up…
Cerberus
Yup, especially when combined with Carol arguing so strenuously for her being sequestered and removed from college. That there isn’t a single “what the fuck” call or text or a single “did you take the car” or even a single “you made us so worried” means that when they get home, it’s going to be genuinely awful and abusive.
And all the calmness and peace of this moment will give way to panic and fear again. Because that’s what Carol is best at.
Marie
I get why they wouldn’t want to, but Jocelyn texting like “hey Joyce is hanging out with me, sibling catch up time :),” esp directed to hank, seems like way more preemptive damage control than risk.
Emi
Actually now that I think about it, has Willis stated how Jocelyn rolls, sexual attraction wise? I know she said she wasn’t gay when she met ethan, but was it ever clarified if she meant from a closeted or non closeted perspective?
Kamino Neko
He’s mentioned that Joss likes dudes. (I don’t remember if he specified ‘only’, but she’s definitely not a lesbian.) It’s fairly deep in his Tumblr at this point, so I can’t find the specific post, unfortunately.
Cerberus
Yeah, straight or bi/pan. My guess is probably straight to serve as contrast to Carla’s trans queerness.
Elsendor
CARLA LIKES GIRLS? HOW DID I MISS THIS??
Kinoko
I felt like she was hinting it in this strip: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/spilled/
But also, characters have (for the most part) their canon sexualities from the Walkyverse. Carla may be a slight exception because she’s a trans female human, instead of a trans-chasis homoromantic robot, but I’d assume the closest counterpart to that is that she’s romantically into women in this comic.
Achallenger
man sexuality is *complicated*
Jason
I’m a heteroflexible panromatic poly transman who used to be all sorts of confused as to why I was primarily attracted to women but also repulsed by the idea of having lesbian sex. Sexuality can be confusing as all hell!
Nowadays my sexuality just confuses everyone else.
Austyn
I agree 100%
Gamaran Sepudomyn
Carla is so cute in that strip. Thanks for reminding me.
Cerberus
Yup, that was definitely a clue-in. And Word of Willis has confirmed that Carla is homoromantic asexual, just like Ultracar was.
Cerberus
Which I absolutely love, because Carla and Ultracar are like the only two characters I know of in any fiction who share my identity and sexuality in that way (homoromantic asexual trans women).
Dara
As I recall, she said, “I’m not actually gay” (followed by “but you are”) which implied to me that she does like guys given the context – she’d be gay if she was a guy. But she’s not a guy, so.
(Could be bi or pan or w/e of course, but that was what was said.)
Jason
The wording heavily suggested (to me) that she was into dudes only, but that she wasn’t gay (because, you know, woman.)
It was something like “despite what people think I’m not actually gay”, I believe. Which suggests that people think she’s a gay man, rather than any other sexuality.
So- I think she’s straight? But I will wait for it to be stated explicitly.
Jason
Wow, no, I was well off the mark there. But that was how I read it, that she’s not gay despite only being into dudes. I don’t know why my brain put in a whole ‘nother line that does not exist and hasn’t anywhere ever.
a snow ʍousɐ
It exists as subtext!
Shade
Seems fairly simple, we know her gender and we know she’s not gay. So she’d be attracted to men.
Chris Phoenix
She said “I’m not gay” to someone who, she knew, saw her as a man. She could expect him to interpret this as “I’m not attracted to men.”
Given that Willis has said that Joss likes dudes, then she apparently was not choosing her words to convey the most accurate information possible about herself given what Ethan knew. Instead, she was probably describing herself from her own point of view.
Of course, if she eventually plans to present as female, then she might expect that a gay man would be less physically attracted to her… so she might have been telling a white lie so as not to get his hopes up.
ninja_jesus
She said “I’m not actually gay”, which is a totally different thing. To me it means that Joss liking guys is no different from Joyce or Dorothy liking guys.
Cerberus
This. And being a straight trans woman, she’s probably gone through the gauntlet of people going “why don’t you just be gay” and potential partners with masculinity issues thinking that dating a trans woman somehow makes them gay.
So that would be a very important distinction for her.
thejeff
I kind of doubt she has. I doubt she’s far enough out of the closet anywhere to even consider dating as a woman. Or willing to open up to anyone she’s not already sure won’t give her the “why don’t you just be gay” routine.
Maybe not. Maybe she’s got more of a secret life than I think. It would surprise me though.
Cerberus
We know she’s at least out online and it’s been implied that she’s out to her college friends (the ones she left to hang out with during Parent’s weekend). I’m suspecting she may have been slightly out in college but terrified of making any big steps because parents (knew so many of those types of kids when I volunteered as a trans mentor for a college campus).
Romanticide
I am not surprise, their processing power got quite a load that evening, who might also be gay is not something they may have time to think about.
Jon Rich
“Amazing how they haven’t entertained the notion that maybe Joss is gay (even though it’s more complicated than that)… babby steps FTW”
Statistically, though, it’s more likely that he “knows a gay guy.”
On a more human level, it’s probably just harder entertaining the notion that someone who you ostensibly know so well is actually different in such a significant way from what you imagined, rather than entertaining the notion that the person simply “knows a gay guy.”
Though it should probably be a bit easier for both Becky and Joyce, since Becky has experienced hiding that sort of thing, and Joyce has already been on the “getting new information” end of this equation *at least* once: With Becky. Actually, probably *twice,* because Ethan is gay….or *three* times, with Dina, whatever her specific situation is. That’s not even counting the fact that she had to revise her views after learning that Dorothy’s an atheist.
It’s mildly surprising that Joyce isn’t freaking out more than she is. She’s had her entire worldview flipped on its head, in so many ways, in the last, what, month and a half? It only seems gradual to us because, depending on when we started reading, it’s been up to five and a half years. But Joyce has gone through all this character development, not to mention the drugging/attempted rape and dealing with the gun-wielding father of her best friend on campus (and subsequent car/motorbike chase).
Massive tangent. Sorry about that.
Cerberus
It’s the reason why she’s been super inside her head of late. She’s changed a lot really fast and has learned the truth about a lot of people she was raised to hate and is still reeling from all she is experiencing all at once.
Stairmasternem
Considering Jocelyne’s interaction with Ethan back on Parent Day, I would guess that Jocelyne likes girls still. So technically I guess she is gay, but not according to Joyce who still sees her as her brother (due to a lack of information).
El Chupacabre
When did we find out John (Jocelyn?) was trans? A lot of comments have mentioned this, but I must have completely missed it somehow.
thejeff
Way back at the end of her first appearance on Family weekend, when she sent Ethan a link to her writings, using her real name “jocelynejbrown.com”.
That’s not absolutely clear in itself, but it’s been confirmed by Word of God. All the tags changed to Jocelyne as soon as it was revealed, which was another strong meta clue.
But it’s not John who’s trans. John’s the bigot missionary oldest brother. The rest of the family knows Jocelyne as “Joshua”.
Indy
You’d be astounded at how dense people can be when it comes to coming out. I’ve had people who I *told* claim that there’s no way they could have known. Those straight/cis goggles can be strapped on mighty tight at times.
AnvilPro
Ah, irony.
Van Jealous
Otherwise known as a “Ferric Patella”.
JessWitt
Here’s a +1.
Cerberus
Don’t you mean a +3? 😉
tyersome
The force is strong with the one …
JessWitt
I was bad at chemistry so that took a while to get.
Cerberus
When I teach chemistry, I’m fond of saying the transition metals are the genderfluid elements, cause you gotta ask for their current charge pronouns before you can proceed forward in naming and balancing.
Falling Star
Which is a bongo and a half trying to figure out if you haven’t had a proper chemistry base learning.
Jon Rich
*Claps* Took me a moment.
Kamino Neko
Same.
Arian
LOL
Falling Star
YASSSSSSSSS
Onion
DRAMATIC irony.
Doctor_Who
Jocelyn met Ethan so she does indeed know at least one gay guy.
Thus Joyce is technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Kirby
Thank you, number 1.0
Cattleprod
Bah, I was way too slow posting this joke further down.
caesaria82
But does Joyce know that Jocelyne knows that Ethan is gay? They did meet pre Ethan telling Joyce he’s gay, right? Jocelyne knows, obviously, because Ethan basically told her (and was flirting with her). But at least on ‘screen’, as it were, Joyce and Jocelyne haven’t had the ‘oh btw, Ethan is totes gay’ convo, right?
And now I made my brain hurt xD
Rookster
Yeah Joyce maybe he does
Rosicrucian