I think the more egregious assumption is that all of them would be fine with a male partner, given that thus far, two of them have only shown interest in women. Sarah doesn’t have the other-universe info that would back up her plan.
I mean, she’s just asking. She doesn’t seem to be assuming the answer will be ‘yes’.
Insanenoodlyguy
Asking a group to incorporate somebody else is a big ask. Asking a group to incorporate a third party is a huge ask. Asking them to just seduce some guy you acknowledge you don’t like, in order to ruin a 4th parties relationship with the third party, reducing the respect of the entire relationship to nothing more than lustbait, that’s stopped being something measurable in offhand size categories.
Soon: Sarah organizes a massive, campus-radio-advertized, flyers-printed-by-the-bushel, invite-only-and-Joe-is-the-only-cis-dude-getting-an-invite sex party
“Hey Roz fuck Joe” might work. The novelty of the request an the fact Joe’s good in the sack might get her inclined to grab the boy for another go.
“Hey Roz fuck Joe to ruin a relationship.” is gonna flip that right around. And Sarah’s actual manipulative ability is being shown here in that she has none. So she’d basically just say “Hey Roz fuck Joe to ruin a relationship.”
I don’t even understand what Sarah thinks this will prove. Sarah just offered herself to Joe, Joe accepted, and Joyce immediately forgave him. Why does Sarah think Joyce wouldn’t forgive Joe if Joe accepted a proposition from three girls instead of one? By standard macho calculus, three girls at the same time is a greater temptation. Plus, Joe in particular has already shown a specific interest in having sex with multiple partners because he once lied about having done it already and then came clean and said he hasn’t. If anything that’s MORE forgivable under the “sex = temptation” paradigm Joyce seems to be applying to Joe here anyway.
Sarah offered herself to Joe and he accepted, but they never actually went through with anything. That could lead to some doubt… maybe Joe would have backed out at the last minute, maybe Joe was really “just kidding” when he accepted, etc.. It makes it a little easier to forgive someone if their mistakes are all theoretical.
Its only if he goes through with some sexual encounter will it be completely solid evidence that “Joe really can’t be trusted to stay faithful”. Sarah might think that that is enough to change the Joe/Joyce relationship.
Looking back at it, I’m pretty sure she changed her hair to blue when Becky started hanging out in the dorm (there can be only one orange-head-lander?), and changed it back after Robin called her “safely ethnic” for being “white with dyed hair” during the Birthday party for Dina that Becky threw (which she tried to cover up with a “Re-elect Desanto Party” banner when Robin came home early).
Either way, Mandy’s only appearance since that was as a background character in the mandatory floor meeting at the start of second semester (where she had her original orange hair), so that barely counts.
thejeff
I guess that could have been the motivation, but since we didn’t see her between then and the timeskip, it’s hard to say. It could have been right away. It could have been months later over the Christmas holidays.
The thing about a polycule is that it doesn’t necessarily mean all the people in it are romantically or sexually involved with each other. You could have, say, Bob and Jane dating, and Jane also dating Jack, while Bob and Jack are only friendly with each other.
Yep, there are such things as Vees and triangles and chains, but chains usually involve 4 or more people.
Chris Phoenix
For example, you can have a polycule in which everyone is straight. Alice sleeps with Bob and Carl; Bob also sleeps with Denise; hopefully, Bob and Carl like each other, but they might have zero interest in each other’s body, and likewise for Alice and Denise. Or in some poly arrangements, Bob and Carl might not even know each other.
Poly covers quite a range. The important thing is honesty, not who’s sleeping with whom.
Why not just use the broader terms of ‘prejudice’ and ‘bigotry’?
That having been said, yes, Sarah’s behavior here is a form of that. She’s making potentially hurtful assumptions based on outward appearances and stereotypes.
I can’t recall if there’s a term for the prejudice that poly ppl experience, made worse by the fact its not a protected class. I literally got fired over it, ironically I was actually monogamous, but happened to be dating a poly person.
How the fuck does that work? Not you dating a poly person, you being fired for dating, well anyone honestly poly or nit. Feels illegal. Although I guess laws in the US are slowly changing in certain states to allow any discrimination if it make you feel better with god, so maybe that’s the answer?
Mark
Just because there’s a law doesn’t mean it’s useful in a practical way. Suing your employer to get your job back is kinda like setting fire to the bridge you want to be standing on.
You got fired for dating somebody? That’s strange.
clif
Unless they were also working at the same company; then not so strange. Some companies don’t want to deal with work fallout of relationships breaking up or superiors/subordinates emotionally attached or coworkers or subordinates being pressured to date. But if that’s their policy, they have to say so in advance.
Ari
I mean, in at-will employment states you can be fired for basically anything as long as it’s not a protected class
To Sarah’s credit, that’s why she’s calling it a favour.
Da Boy
Does she even have the necessary “social currency” to do that? She is not exactly a friendly person and I don’t think she is anywhere near close to the three girls to even suggest such a thing.
Nono
Well, one of the trio is Sarah’s roommate’s best friend’s ex-roommate. So three degrees of separation, maybe.
Da Boy
A friend of a friend of a friend, yeah that shit is not working out for Sarah.
Amara
Oh, you mean Sierra and Dorothy! It took me a while because Becky didn’t have any former roommates at this college, and she’s the very loudly proclaimed Joyce’s Best Friend.
Would Joe be a ‘tough sell’ (as opposed to any other man)?
Joe is considered to be the traditional “classic” masculine/attractive man, so if any of them are bisexual they might consider him hansom enough.
There is the issue of Joe’s personality and his obsession with sex. This would have been an issue with someone like Sarah or Rachael, but not all women will react the same way. I don’t recall any sort of negative interactions between Joe and any of the other characters to suggest it would be a problem. And Joe did sort of “hit on” Sierra once… while we don’t have any evidence that it went anywhere, its not like Sierra was repulsed by him.
Remember that Joe had that “hotness rating” list of all the local gals. Base Joe’s decent looking and Roz has said he’s good in the sack but the known objectification has the perception of many down as “ew.” Even if they are all sexually attracted to conventionally attractive males, Joe specifically would not appeal.
It’s academic though, since this inappropriate ask is so egregious nobody even waited to hear it was Joe before rejection was obvious.
That works in Sarah’s favor though. It would prove Joe’s still the kind of misogynist creep that thinks a very sapphic relationship still craves a man. Something I’d easily believe he would think at the start of his character.
It doesn’t work in Sarah’s favor if a burly man isn’t their type and therefore they don’t want to do it.
Random832
She’s not asking them to actually do it. Just to participate in her weird scheme to break up someone’s relationship by getting the guy to agree to cheat. Presumably, in her mind, Joe says yes, Joyce dumps him, they say haha gotcha nevermind, Joe now has zero threesomes and zero girlfriends.
This is definitely something a reasonable person would expect someone polyamorous to agree to be a party to.
eskimolos
It’s also exactly what Sarah already did, as just a single person, in earshot of Joyce. And Joe happily agreed, it was just slamming the door in his face that shut it down. Point being even if it works they wouldn’t super likely seal the deal (poly people and monogamous bs are like oil and water, for a whole polycule to agree to get tangled in some new monog dumpster fire between a recently reformed christian and a jewish guy just seems extremely unlikely), so it wouldn’t hold any greater weight compared to him wanting to dick down with her roommate at a moment’s notice.
eskimolos
I need to stress that I am actually very much a joe/joyce shipper, and don’t think him heeding sarah’s call is egregious and wrong, likewise I also don’t think sarah attempting to break them up is so egregious and wrong either – they’re both operating within the limits of their characters and personalities, joyce knows and understands them both, and I think this will end up being educational for everyone. I don’t know if it will make them less dumb, but it certainly theoretically could!
Mark
Exactly how is that cheating? Joe and Joyce have tacitly agreed that they like each other and are mutually attracted. That’s pretty much their entire deal at this point.
Discussion (262) - “Mandy”
Amós Batista
If you need more explanation about this polycule, I’ve made a simple chart. You should see it.
Doctor_Who
Are you sure Grace isn’t a secret agent? We ended up theorizing in this thread that she’s a member of the Thunderbirds.
Thag Simmons
well, not in this version at least
Nalim Skarro
From the bedroom eyes she’s making, clearly Grace is the rizzler. She may not love but she’s definitely there to make love…
Corronchilejano
What are polycules if not threesomes persevering?
Scoops!
I’m applauding and laughing out loud, this is so good.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Sarah bein’ all presumptuous here. Disgusting. I hope it works out when Joe brings Joyce along. ?
Vangeln
No Faz?
Amós Batista
No, I’m afraid not.
But good call: I need to update the DoA chart.
Doctor_Who
Where this is heading for Sarah.
You may use your imagination as to what the gauntlet is for.
Ana Chronistic
“why do you think that just because we have sex that we’ll want to have sex?”
“um”
“…YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN”
Rose by Any Other Name
I think the more egregious assumption is that all of them would be fine with a male partner, given that thus far, two of them have only shown interest in women. Sarah doesn’t have the other-universe info that would back up her plan.
Ari
More egregious still is the assumption that any of them would be fine with Joe, specifically
Alaric
I mean, she’s just asking. She doesn’t seem to be assuming the answer will be ‘yes’.
Insanenoodlyguy
Asking a group to incorporate somebody else is a big ask. Asking a group to incorporate a third party is a huge ask. Asking them to just seduce some guy you acknowledge you don’t like, in order to ruin a 4th parties relationship with the third party, reducing the respect of the entire relationship to nothing more than lustbait, that’s stopped being something measurable in offhand size categories.
NGPZ
So Sarah calls upon the only poly people in the dorm for the sole purpose of attempting to break up Joyce and Joe?
She’s fucking DESPERATE. But I guess they don’t call this Dumbing of Age for nothing I guess. ?
Doctor_Who
Maybe it’s sort of a vote of confidence for Joyce?
I mean, I’d be slightly flattered if someone wanted to break me up from my SO and thought it would take THREE people to surpass my appeal.
milu
Soon: Sarah organizes a massive, campus-radio-advertized, flyers-printed-by-the-bushel, invite-only-and-Joe-is-the-only-cis-dude-getting-an-invite sex party
Opus the Poet
Take my imaginary upvote!
Leorale
Yeah, can I get Sarah to dislike me so she’ll set me up with all the foxy poly ladies, too
NGPZ
hahaha i also want in on that inside job, ?
brionl
Inside, outside, over the side watching…
Angel
mght be easier to ask roz again but i imagine she wouldn’t care anymore
Schpoonman
Roz was pissed at Dorothy trying to shame Joyce away from Joe, asking Roz to hook up with Joe would set her off in thermonuclear fashion.
Insanenoodlyguy
“Hey Roz fuck Joe” might work. The novelty of the request an the fact Joe’s good in the sack might get her inclined to grab the boy for another go.
“Hey Roz fuck Joe to ruin a relationship.” is gonna flip that right around. And Sarah’s actual manipulative ability is being shown here in that she has none. So she’d basically just say “Hey Roz fuck Joe to ruin a relationship.”
Dr Sharks
I don’t even understand what Sarah thinks this will prove. Sarah just offered herself to Joe, Joe accepted, and Joyce immediately forgave him. Why does Sarah think Joyce wouldn’t forgive Joe if Joe accepted a proposition from three girls instead of one? By standard macho calculus, three girls at the same time is a greater temptation. Plus, Joe in particular has already shown a specific interest in having sex with multiple partners because he once lied about having done it already and then came clean and said he hasn’t. If anything that’s MORE forgivable under the “sex = temptation” paradigm Joyce seems to be applying to Joe here anyway.
Segnosaur
Sarah offered herself to Joe and he accepted, but they never actually went through with anything. That could lead to some doubt… maybe Joe would have backed out at the last minute, maybe Joe was really “just kidding” when he accepted, etc.. It makes it a little easier to forgive someone if their mistakes are all theoretical.
Its only if he goes through with some sexual encounter will it be completely solid evidence that “Joe really can’t be trusted to stay faithful”. Sarah might think that that is enough to change the Joe/Joyce relationship.
EmTaya
I like Mandy 🙂
Doctor_Who
One of Nic Cage’s most underrated films.
Puppeteer Nessus
Cheddar Goblin?
Animedingo
Nice
Cattleprod
Changed back? That looks like the same hair color she had in her last appearance in 2020. It was blue in 2019.
Cattleprod
(I know this because I always check the tags when a character who hasn’t appeared in a while shows up.)
Ymbrael
Looking back at it, I’m pretty sure she changed her hair to blue when Becky started hanging out in the dorm (there can be only one orange-head-lander?), and changed it back after Robin called her “safely ethnic” for being “white with dyed hair” during the Birthday party for Dina that Becky threw (which she tried to cover up with a “Re-elect Desanto Party” banner when Robin came home early).
Either way, Mandy’s only appearance since that was as a background character in the mandatory floor meeting at the start of second semester (where she had her original orange hair), so that barely counts.
thejeff
I guess that could have been the motivation, but since we didn’t see her between then and the timeskip, it’s hard to say. It could have been right away. It could have been months later over the Christmas holidays.
Thag Simmons
I think this is her first major speaking part since the new dye though
Sirksome
Is assuming the poly couple does threesomes..I don’t know what the term is for the relationship form of racist. Is it that?
C.T. Phipps
I think, instead, it would be like assuming a happy couple has a healthy sex life.
Decidedly Orthogonal
Closer to assuming a happy couple does doggy style, or missionary. It’s a pretty intimate ask to have someone share how they participate in sex.
S.R.
The thing about a polycule is that it doesn’t necessarily mean all the people in it are romantically or sexually involved with each other. You could have, say, Bob and Jane dating, and Jane also dating Jack, while Bob and Jack are only friendly with each other.
Opus the Poet
Yep, there are such things as Vees and triangles and chains, but chains usually involve 4 or more people.
Chris Phoenix
For example, you can have a polycule in which everyone is straight. Alice sleeps with Bob and Carl; Bob also sleeps with Denise; hopefully, Bob and Carl like each other, but they might have zero interest in each other’s body, and likewise for Alice and Denise. Or in some poly arrangements, Bob and Carl might not even know each other.
Poly covers quite a range. The important thing is honesty, not who’s sleeping with whom.
vlademir1
Why not just use the broader terms of ‘prejudice’ and ‘bigotry’?
That having been said, yes, Sarah’s behavior here is a form of that. She’s making potentially hurtful assumptions based on outward appearances and stereotypes.
MoreWLessG
Huh? I am really not sure how assuming that people in a relationship have sex with each other is a form of prejudice or bigotry.
MoreWLessG
Actually I am re-reading it and nevermind. I get it.
Angel
it’s like when a girl goes on tinder for a bi/lesbian girl to try to convince her to do a threesome with her mid boyfriend
monkyvirus
I can’t recall if there’s a term for the prejudice that poly ppl experience, made worse by the fact its not a protected class. I literally got fired over it, ironically I was actually monogamous, but happened to be dating a poly person.
Sirksome
How the fuck does that work? Not you dating a poly person, you being fired for dating, well anyone honestly poly or nit. Feels illegal. Although I guess laws in the US are slowly changing in certain states to allow any discrimination if it make you feel better with god, so maybe that’s the answer?
Mark
Just because there’s a law doesn’t mean it’s useful in a practical way. Suing your employer to get your job back is kinda like setting fire to the bridge you want to be standing on.
BarerMender
Nice figure. But how about suing for lost wages?
Uly
“Right to work” laws.
Taffy
You got fired for dating somebody? That’s strange.
clif
Unless they were also working at the same company; then not so strange. Some companies don’t want to deal with work fallout of relationships breaking up or superiors/subordinates emotionally attached or coworkers or subordinates being pressured to date. But if that’s their policy, they have to say so in advance.
Ari
I mean, in at-will employment states you can be fired for basically anything as long as it’s not a protected class
Yotomoe
I mean it’s a 3-girl polyamory. There is a DISTINCT possibility that maybe a burly man isn’t exactly their type.
Thag Simmons
Even for the ones who are into dudes I think havig the dude be Joe specifically would be a tough sell
Nono
To Sarah’s credit, that’s why she’s calling it a favour.
Da Boy
Does she even have the necessary “social currency” to do that? She is not exactly a friendly person and I don’t think she is anywhere near close to the three girls to even suggest such a thing.
Nono
Well, one of the trio is Sarah’s roommate’s best friend’s ex-roommate. So three degrees of separation, maybe.
Da Boy
A friend of a friend of a friend, yeah that shit is not working out for Sarah.
Amara
Oh, you mean Sierra and Dorothy! It took me a while because Becky didn’t have any former roommates at this college, and she’s the very loudly proclaimed Joyce’s Best Friend.
Segnosaur
Would Joe be a ‘tough sell’ (as opposed to any other man)?
Joe is considered to be the traditional “classic” masculine/attractive man, so if any of them are bisexual they might consider him hansom enough.
There is the issue of Joe’s personality and his obsession with sex. This would have been an issue with someone like Sarah or Rachael, but not all women will react the same way. I don’t recall any sort of negative interactions between Joe and any of the other characters to suggest it would be a problem. And Joe did sort of “hit on” Sierra once… while we don’t have any evidence that it went anywhere, its not like Sierra was repulsed by him.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/gift/
Insanenoodlyguy
Remember that Joe had that “hotness rating” list of all the local gals. Base Joe’s decent looking and Roz has said he’s good in the sack but the known objectification has the perception of many down as “ew.” Even if they are all sexually attracted to conventionally attractive males, Joe specifically would not appeal.
It’s academic though, since this inappropriate ask is so egregious nobody even waited to hear it was Joe before rejection was obvious.
Sirksome
That works in Sarah’s favor though. It would prove Joe’s still the kind of misogynist creep that thinks a very sapphic relationship still craves a man. Something I’d easily believe he would think at the start of his character.
Devin
It doesn’t work in Sarah’s favor if a burly man isn’t their type and therefore they don’t want to do it.
Random832
She’s not asking them to actually do it. Just to participate in her weird scheme to break up someone’s relationship by getting the guy to agree to cheat. Presumably, in her mind, Joe says yes, Joyce dumps him, they say haha gotcha nevermind, Joe now has zero threesomes and zero girlfriends.
This is definitely something a reasonable person would expect someone polyamorous to agree to be a party to.
eskimolos
It’s also exactly what Sarah already did, as just a single person, in earshot of Joyce. And Joe happily agreed, it was just slamming the door in his face that shut it down. Point being even if it works they wouldn’t super likely seal the deal (poly people and monogamous bs are like oil and water, for a whole polycule to agree to get tangled in some new monog dumpster fire between a recently reformed christian and a jewish guy just seems extremely unlikely), so it wouldn’t hold any greater weight compared to him wanting to dick down with her roommate at a moment’s notice.
eskimolos
I need to stress that I am actually very much a joe/joyce shipper, and don’t think him heeding sarah’s call is egregious and wrong, likewise I also don’t think sarah attempting to break them up is so egregious and wrong either – they’re both operating within the limits of their characters and personalities, joyce knows and understands them both, and I think this will end up being educational for everyone. I don’t know if it will make them less dumb, but it certainly theoretically could!
Mark
Exactly how is that cheating? Joe and Joyce have tacitly agreed that they like each other and are mutually attracted. That’s pretty much their entire deal at this point.