243

Changed
Posted on February 2, 2019 by David M Willis

243 thoughts on “Changed”

  1. DarkoNeko

    Where did he even get that shirt ?

    1. Dean

      From the Tits Inspectorate, obviously.

      1. Doctor_Who

        Wow, he took the licensing exam? I’m impressed, no mere boob can pass the Breast Analysis Proficiency Study (BAPS).

        I’m told it’s a real knocker, and if you go bust you’ll feel a right tit.

        1. Hoodiecrow

          He is authorized to call “Stop! Mammae time!”.

          (Without the license, you can’t touch this.)

        2. Tualha

          This is a horrible pun collection, areola stinker. We need to nip it in the bud.

        3. Charlie Spencer

          It’s a well-rounded topic. Why not milk it?

        4. Deanatay

          I dug it for a while, but now I just knead to say “ta-ta” before the topic goes gazongas.

        5. Makkabee

          There seems to be a real cleavage between people who think this is a fit subject for extended punning and those who tersely reject the notion.

        6. Roborat

          Problem is, if the thread goes on long enough, the puns go flat and the humour starts to sag.

        7. Saucistophe

          Once you get the BAPS, you need to keep your knowledge up to date. You know, to keep a-breast.

    2. Jay

      He probably bought it at a store?

      1. Deanatay

        Eh, looks like he got it the same way Walky got a ‘ROBOTS’ shirt.

    3. Pablo360

      He took an online certification course.

      1. Julez

        He’s certitfied

        1. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

          He’s certifiable.

    4. Yotomoe

      In one of the fine clothing establishments either within the Indiana area or on the internet.

      1. DarkoNeko

        Seeing how rich his family is, I’m leanign toward “my dad has a shirt printer at home”

        1. Agemegos

          You can get custom-printed (and custom embroidered) shirts (and hats, tote bags…) very easily from services that have presence on the Web. Go to the site, choose your garment, upload a graphics file, and authorise payment on your credit card. Stuff comes in the mail, like Walky’s pyjama-jeans.

    5. Yumi

      I was once in a store in California that sold a shirt that said “Californication”…and had a picture of two bears fucking. Sometimes you just find this shit, and if you’re Joe, you buy it.

      1. Yotomoe

        I might buy that shirt. I mean I wouldn’t wear it in public but it’d be fun as pajamas.

        1. Yumi

          I spent time that should have been spent sleeping looking for my picture of that shirt; turns out I had misremembered what it said, which was actually “Califuckinfornia.” My mind just was like, “Surely they at least invoked wordplay.” Anyway. Searching that seems to being up siimilar shirts for your purchasing pleasure.

        2. Yotomoe

          Ew…I’m so let down by the poor wordplay I wouldn’t even wear that when I’m alone.

        3. CJ

          Ah, and I had started to wonder where bears came up in the Red Hot Chilie Peppers album.

        4. Yumi

          Honestly, you’d think since RHCP had already done the work of setting that up for them, they could have at least gone with it…

        5. Arawn

          Copyright infringement is a pain in the bare ass.

        6. davidbreslin101

          “The California animal is a bear
          Angeleno but the devil may care…”

      2. Knayt

        There was a shirt I saw once involving a bunch of pairs of cigarettes all in sex positions, with a no smoking sign around each pair.

    6. BenRG

      You can get custom t-shirts on-line. Quite a few of these vendors have surprisingly low standards as to for what they will accept money.

    7. H3xx

      What’s the problem with being an inspector for small birds?

      1. Yumi

        They prefer to manage their own communities and view this kind of other-species enforcement as oppressive.

        1. Arian

          *Like*

      2. Ed Rhodes

        Or for the Tennessee Institute of Technology?

  2. Ana Chronistic

    Can’t decide? Why not both?

    1. Kamino Neko

      Both is good.

  3. Josh Spicer

    Tie him up to the front of the class, shirtless, with the shirt burning in a trash, and teach the glass why what Joe is doing and wearing is wrong for all the reasons.

    Then kick him in the shin until he changes back to the respectable on a very minor level Joe.

    1. Josh Spicer

      Yeah you TEACH that glass…

      1. GoblinScribe

        … with his FAAACE

  4. AnvilPro

    Joe is a sad dude, and the only way he knows how to not be is to tell everyone he isn’t

  5. meep

    Why did Joe take this class again?

    1. JetstreamGW

      Because in a lot of schools a gender studies class is an elective that you don’t really have to pay attention to. Or at least it used to be. Maybe that’s changed.

      Anyway, the point is he figured it’d be easy.

      1. Deanatay

        Also, he figured it’d be full of hot chicks.

        Leslie informed him that, unfortunately, they were all lesbians.

        1. Deanatay

          D’ohh, how did I miss Woomy’s comment just below this? *sigh*

    2. Woomy

      He thought it would be mostly chicks, but joke’s on him, they’re all lesbians

      1. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

        And Joyce

        1. Heavensrun

          Like he said, all lesbians.

    3. Kamino Neko

      Because the class is mostly female. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/02-uphill-from-here/why/

    4. Cholma

      Probably a required elective that he thought he could sleep through.

    5. Yotomoe

      For the chicks man. How’s he gonna continue his profession if there’s no tits for him to inspect. He’s already looked over JACOB’S tit’s thoroughly.

    6. Tacos

      Creepily, to pick up chicks.

    7. BenRG

      In his own words: “I thought that it was going to be all about hot girl-on-girl action.”

      In other words, he’s either an idiot or came into the class with the intent of disrupting it whilst waving around his ‘he-man dude/class clown’ credentials.

      1. Reltzik

        ….. “either”?

    8. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

      Because this and math are literally the only classes this school offers.

  6. Stephen Bierce

    Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes! Turn and face the strange–CHANGES!

    1. Batman

      Hacks the muzak

  7. William Leonard Reese Jr.

    Hm. . . On the one hand I like Joe’s ruffled hair and 5’oclock shadow look. On the other hand that shirt is gross as hell.

    . . . Would Leslie’s idea of making that the subject of today’s class actually work to make him realize that he has regressed and needs to change his outlook or would it only be from realizing that Joyce has changed to convince him that he CAN change. That he is NOT doomed to become as sleazy as his father, who otherwise does not seem to be *too* bad of a guy, that he is in the process of becoming just like him.

    1. DailyBrad

      The problem isn’t so much regression as he has lost faith in himself. The Malaya thing, which was him running from Joyce confronting him about (seemingly) having feelings for her, made him feel like a failure.

      I think he needs to learn that he is allowed to stumble, but that he can’t wallow.

      1. BarerMender

        I don’t see the running-away-from-Joyce thing. I thought it was just another piece of ass for Joe. The thing that might have put a kink in Joe’s tail was the realization that he was the one being used, that he was being pumped and dumped. Or maybe he, like Mike with Ethan, was actually taken with Malaya, who merely saw it as casual sex.

        1. thejeff

          If you read the Slipshine, it’s pretty clear that he wasn’t taken with Malaya.
          It’s also pretty clear that Malaya wasn’t even interested in the sex.

        2. BarerMender

          I’m sorry, but I can’t spring the money to read slipshine.

        3. Paradox

          He also runs off with Malaya immediately after Joyce confronted him about his changes to her ranking on The List.

          I might be misremembering but he seemed backed into a corner and willing to take the easy out.

        4. thejeff

          It was awhile after that, IIRC.
          While Joyce was confronting him over him thinking she had a chance with Jacob. All while dealing with Faz.

          He may have been taking the easy out from that though.

    2. Jay

      Malaya ruined all the progress he made

      1. BBCC

        I know I made a joke along these lines yesterday but I really don’t think it’s fair to blame this on Malaya. Joe could choose not to be an ass. Or, if Joe really doesn’t think he’s capable of having sex without reverting to being an ass, he could have said no.

        1. Jay

          This is a man with insane impulse control issues, him sliding back into his old habits isn’t surprising especially considering Malaya isn’t exactly a good person either. I have faith he can get back on the right track tho.

        2. BBCC

          I’m not surprised he’s fallen into bad habits again and I believe he can get back on track too. That doesn’t make this Malaya’s fault.

        3. Cyrus

          Are you suggesting we hold a man accountable for his own shitty decisions instead of blaming a convenient female scapegoat? Blasphemy!

        4. Jay

          r/woosh

        5. Sporky

          You seem absolutely delightful.

        6. Jay

          It’s not Malayas fault but it IS because of Malaya. If it weren’t for that hookup he would still be on the right track.

        7. TemperaryObsessor

          Meh Malaya was an excuse not to face his feelings. Then he used that one time as an excuse to backslide hard. Just because you find people who will like you despite or even because of the bad things you do does not mean you have to keep doing them.

        8. BBCC

          That’s on Joe, not on Malaya.

        9. Llyia

          If it wasnt Malaya it would have eventually been another chick. Why are you trying to blame her so hard, hes responsible for his own actions.

        10. Jay

          I’m literally not blaming her and I agree it woulda been another chick

    3. Reltzik

      Regardless of whether Joe would learn something by being made the subject of the class, the rest of the class will learn something. DO IT, LESLIE!

      (Object lessons fall under the category of teachable moments.)

  8. Woomy

    Very funny, thanks Willis!

  9. Jay

    Well I think it’s a funny shirt Joe. *pats*

  10. Cattleprod

    “You had a redemption arc! You’re supposed to be a good person with no negative traits forever!”

    1. AGV

      “You were the redeemable one! You were supposed to bring catharsis to the readers, Joe!”

      1. 3oranges

        So much for that. Now, for once, Joyce has the moral high ground.

        1. davidbreslin101

          JOE: You depraved me!
          MALAYA: No, Joe, you have done that to yourself.

  11. C.T Phipps

    Leslie, don’t judge your students…aloud.

    1. Deanatay

      Leslie, don’t rate students.

      But, a teacher’s JOB is to rate their students!

  12. Yotomoe

    People don’t change. You’re thinking of Changeligns.

    1. Jess

      Changelings don’t change. You’re thinking of coinage you receive when you pay using bills greater than the worth of your purchase.

      1. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

        I’ve been staring at these coins for five hours and they haven’t changed at all

    2. Bagge

      Come to think of it, one of the big points with changelings in folklore is that their true nature shines through their upbringing – i.e. that they DON’T change.

      Maybe we can petition a bunch of dark ages storytellers to pick a different name.

      1. BrokenEye, the True False Prophet

        They don’t change, but they are changes. Before, you had a normal, healthy, human baby. And then they were injected with mercury they were given a subdermal RFI implant the water was fluoridated they were replaced with a fairy.

        1. Bagge

          I’m not saying it was aliens…

          But it was aliens

        2. Opus the Poet

          How else do you explain Superman syndrome? (Real condition, look it up)

        3. Opus the Poet

          This was the condition I was talking about. http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/dna-these-superhumans-could-save-millions

          The bone thing, not the pain thing. And not to the same extent as the guy who went deaf.

        4. TemperaryObsessor

          Its not that I don’t love my real kid and am willing to hurt them because they don’t live up to my expectations, its that the person that looks like my child actually helped fairies kidnap my real child.
          I’m not sure whether its better or worse when people think the good person is hiding inside the of you like Ross did with Becky.

        5. Bagge

          Sadly, you are completely right. LOTS of child abuse through the ages has been motivated by the changeling idea – literal or metaphorical.

      2. Kamino Neko

        And this is why I hate people using ‘changeling’ to mean shapeshifter (I’m looking at you, DS9, DC Comics, and D&D)…

        1. lightsabermario

          In MTG, shapeshifter is the type of creature, but Changeling is the ability that gives the card every creature type. The shapeshifters that don’t have changeling usually enter as a copy of a creature on the battlefield.

        2. Rowen Morland

          To be fair Odo’s specific origin was somewhat close to a fairy changeling.

    3. Needfuldoer

      No, Changelings just grumpily huff then yell at you to stop running on their promenade.

      Then they try to destroy the Federation.

      1. JBento

        Reading just your first paragraph I thought you were confusing Changelings with Hall Monitors.

        1. Bagge

          Sometimes I think Odo did.

  13. BBCC

    Turn him into the teachable moment. It probably won’t help – it never did before – and apparently the lunk is doing his best to shut out that development from earlier. Yet

    A) Being the teachable moment will piss him off. This will make me happy so long as Joe’s being an ass.

    B) He won’t listen, so it’s worthless talking to him right now*, but it’ll still be a pretty good example for the class.

    * = People generally need to be ready to hear things to break deeply engrained views.

    Also, Joe? Since you’re being a prick, you might not remember this but there was a very loud very VISIBLE incident with Becky you may recall. Yes, Joyce has changed. She’s got more changing to do, but she’s changed.

    1. JBento

      Thanks for the clarification on Mike yesterday. o/

      1. BBCC

        No worries!

        Mike a social work student though *shudders*

        1. JBento

          You know what’s weird? Why would he even WANT TO? If you’re Mike, the world is a target-rich environment anyway.

        2. BBCC

          Maybe he wants to get paid for what he does?

  14. Mada

    Put him in an Ornithology class and have him go over certain bird species.

    1. davidbreslin101

      Your gravatar’s expression is Joe’s when he’s told to “go look at some bearded tits.”

  15. Madock345

    I kinda hate that Joe is looking extra hot today. I would be disappointed in myself after we banged.

    1. LeslieBean4Shizzle

      Actually, banging him would be likely to cause a removal of the shirt, so… win?

      Also, I attempted to come up with a joke where I rated Joe on a numeric scale, but I couldn’t find a way to satire the thing without just being the thing, so I did this instead.

      1. Jess

        He’s an eggplant out of 10.

        1. AGV

          *an eggplant emoji ? out of 10

    2. Deanatay

      So, kinda like Joe is feeling after banging Malaya?

  16. Deadjolras

    This strip has a lot of things I could comment on, especially regarding gender dynamics and sexism, but somehow, all my brain is able to process is: “Joe and Joyce are interacting after they had an intense, kind of emotional conversation!”. So, my insightful commentary here is HEY, EVERYONE, JOE AND JOYCE ARE TALKING AGAIN.

    1. Moredecai

      Agreed!!!!

    2. Emily

      Yeah and he’s being a big ole piece of shit to her.

      1. Deadjolras

        Yes.

  17. Tan

    Joe, you’re being a dick right now. You know you’re being a dick right now. Stop being a dick right now.

    1. Rabid Rabbit

      But being a dick is his thing! After all, it’s his dickishness Malaya wanted…

      1. Reltzik

        Malaya might not be the best guideline for not being a dick.

  18. Nevermaker

    Jeez, the last time we saw Joe (in the flesh, anyway) was in April! Aaaaaaaaaand I’m remembering why I didn’t exactly miss him.

  19. Yotomoe

    I’m more just impressed. I mean seriously? Were there no “Female Body Inspector” shirts? I mean if you’re goin’ for a womanizing shirt that one’s a classic. And it’s JUST stupid enough for people to think “He’s probably wearing it ironically”

    1. insomniac

      Maybe this is, like, META ironically sexist trashy. Like, it’s commenting on those FBI shirts by doing the same joke without the wordplay.

    2. AGV

      Even better; he needs a “female pressenting nipples inspector”

  20. Tacos

    Both. Leslie you can do both.

  21. Nono

    Hmm. Is this Joe still being mad over Joyce trying to steal Jacob from Raidah?

    1. Swissaboo

      Cheating is basically Joe’s red line even at his worst, so probably.

      1. DailyBrad

        Yeah, that’s probably part of it. He doesn’t know she’s, at least seemingly, given up on that after Dorothy was disappointed in her.

        I highly doubt she’s texted him about it, and even if she did, I was under the impression he was ghosting her before now, anyway.

        1. Airyu

          Has she really given up? Her telling Lucy to “stay away from Jacob” makes me think Joyca has not actually given up

        2. BarerMender

          I’m with you. Also, I thought Jacob was getting an inkling about Raidah not being a completely good person.

        3. Deanatay

          Even if she HAS given up on claiming Jacob, she may have that reaction out of residual jealousy. She IS still attracted to him, probably.

  22. lilyliv

    Dammit, Joe… I was rooting for you. And then not only the shirt, but questioning Joyce when she’s honestly changed SO damn much in such a short time. She’s got a way to go, sure, but I’m so proud of how much she’s unlearning.

    1. Yumi

      And how fucking happily smug he looks in panel 3 about the idea of not changing.

      1. lilyliv

        I mean, I guess he’s at the age where being a dick is still seen as an appealing personality trait. Hopefully he’ll come to his senses soon.

      2. DailyBrad

        I took it more as defiance than smugness, but I mean, being defiant often has an element of smugness to it.

      3. Deanatay

        Joe has built much of his understanding of the universe on the fact that people say that they’ve changed, but don’t really change. Rich is his major example of this. He’s very consistent in this belief, even applying it to himself.

        1. Yumi

          I get people not believing that people change. The looking pleased with himself over it, when it’s been explained to him that his unchanged persona hurts people, is the issue I was stating here.

    2. Jay

      I don’t see how the shirts all that bad.

    3. BarerMender

      I’m hoping Joyce now changes to the point where she says, “Fuck you, Joe.”

      1. BarerMender

        With both middle fingers.

    4. timemonkey

      It occurs to me, has Joe ever seen her growth? It’s basically all been aimed at people he doesn’t interact with.

  23. Reltzik

    Leslie, while I fully acknowledge that Joe’s out of line in terms of propriety, disrespect, and a dozen other things. But he IS paying to be in the class and unless his shirt becomes a source of major disruption or in some way violates campus policy, rules in the syllabus, or previously-administered instructions, you do not actually have grounds to kick him out.

    So you’ll just have to make him the subject of the class instead.

    ….. DO IT! DO IT! PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE!

    1. Yotomoe

      It depends. There’s a line between inappropriate and obscene. You can get away with inappropriate. But you can totally kick someone out for wearing something “obscene” And Joe’s skirting that line.

      1. Jay

        I don’t see how it’s obscene. Inappropriate sure but no obscene

        1. BenRG

          He’s basically stating his intent to fondle women’s breasts in public. Yeah, even if it’s not obscene, it’s a statement of intent that could easily lose him his place in IU if enough people are offended.

        2. Jay

          Statement of intent? It’s a cheesy shirt. If it was on anyone but Joe it’d be nothing but a cheesy cringe shirt

        3. BenRG

          Yeah, context matters doesn’t it? Joe is known for objectifying and disrespecting women so the shirt says very, very worrying things about his attitude towards them.

        4. Paradox

          Context is important, yes. He’s been skeevy in the past, and right now, but he never went so far as to lay hands on someone without consent. He’s been disrespectful and has objectified women for a long time but he’s never crossed that line to my knowledge.

          I hope that it doesn’t come to that point, but for now he’s more douchey than assaulty.

        5. thejeff

          He has laid hands on women without consent, though in a surprise arm around the waist hug kind of fashion, not actual groping.
          Beyond that fairly low level boundary crossing, he’s not actually assaulty, but if I was a woman and I’d just seen his casual behavior, I sure wouldn’t trust him not to be.

        6. BBCC

          Especially since Joe used to go around talking about how alcohol facilitated threesomes and how Joyce might make a sex tape if you got her drunk enough.

          Sure, we know NOW Joe is full of shit, but he only ever said that to DANNY. To Joyce and the women in this class, he’s blaring ‘talks the talk about consent, doesn’t actually walk the walk’ at full blast.

        7. Deanatay

          It’s also not that offensive – even The Breast Cancer Society has crossed that line…

        8. Yumi

          Which is super gross of them!

          Seriously, I’ve come to hate October just because of people going around in “Save the Boobies” gear.

        9. JBento

          Why do you hate birds? 8(

    2. BBCC

      Joe’s been a disruption a few times in her class. She might just decide she’s not dealing with it today.

    3. Swissaboo

      Au contraire! Getting kicked out of his gender studies class, specifically, for that shirt, specifically, is exactly the education that he’s paying for.

    4. Reltzik

      Look, everyone, I’m trying to persuade her to make Joe and his shirt the subject of the class! Don’t interfere with the magic! THE MAGIC THAT CAN RETROACTIVELY MAKE WILLIS REWRITE THE COMIC TWO AND A HALF MONTHS IN THE PAST!

    5. Keulen

      I also would like to see Leslie make Joe and his shirt the subject of the class.

  24. Questionor

    Heh I totally wasn’t sure why the alttext was making a groundhog day joke without coincidentally looking at the calendar not long after reading this.

    1. Jess

      Oh, God, it’s a Groundhog Day reference. That makes me feel a whole lot better, it was super depressing at first.

  25. chris73

    Ok so Joe knows exactly what hes doing and the reaction that shirt will cause so why is he doing this? We know, at heart, hes a decent guy so why do this now, why does someone act like this, why act in a way to drive almost everyone that actually cares about him away.
    I don’t know but I’m guessing Joe is hurting like hell about something and this is one of his coping mechanisms

    1. Yotomoe

      He’s doubling down. It’s easier to be the bad guy than change for the better. Good people have to constantly watch what they say, be careful and tactful and not burn bridges. But if you just act like a lost cause, it’s kind of freeing. If no one has any standards for you then you can’t really let them down.

      1. thejeff

        Sort of. I think.
        Remember what we know of Joe’s motivations. We know he’s not actually as bad as he’d portrayed himself – that much of what he’d claimed was just posturing – no actual use of alcohol to get threesomes, for example. That he’s actually been far less successful sexually than he’s pretended, which suggests he’s not actually as predatory as he appears.
        We know he’s taken this approach because he thinks he’s just like his dad and won’t be able to be faithful in an actual relationship, but if he keeps everything casual he won’t really be able to hurt anyone – like his mom was hurt.
        Joyce made him realize that even this approach was hurting women – her in particular.
        Despite that, he fell to temptation the first time it came up, leaving Joyce in the lurch. From what he said at the time, I don’t think this was a calculated decision of “well, she’s coming on to me, so there’s nothing wrong with it”, but something he perceived as a failure of his own willpower and thus reinforcement of his idea that he is doomed to be like his dad.

        We also know he’s strongly attracted to Joyce.

        I think he’s doubling down as much to drive her away as anything. Keep her from getting any more uncomfortable revelations about him. And mostly keep her from getting close to him, because he’ll hurt her.

    2. BarerMender

      Joe is hurting because he fell in love, and a)his feelings weren’t returned, and b)his self image was destroyed and he’s trying to get it back.

      1. Nono

        What.

        1. BarerMender

          I once said something against the novel Dahlgren, and some English major said, “You didn’t read it deeply enough.” I didn’t punch him in the face, so I’m now empowered to say, “You didn’t read it deeply enough.” But I’ll keep the table between us while I say it.

    3. Emily

      We don’t actually know that.

  26. Badgermole

    Redemption is a story.

    1. AntJ

      Redemption is not real.

      1. Deanatay

        It’s weird that Rachel gives voice to what Joe actually believes.

  27. Alanari

    People do change, but only if they really want to change. Joe never wanted to change , he felt forced to do it. I never expected it to last.. This is faster than I thought though.

  28. Fart Captor

    “Being a good person” is an active process, not a passive state. It usually gets easier with practice and experience, but it requires effort, every single time.

    Joe is capable of doing better. For a moment he cared enough about it to put in the effort to change. The fact that he’s given up this quickly is disappointing, but sadly not that surprising. The first stretch is the hardest to stay motivated for, and Joe already demonstrated unmotivated he is

    Though I’m actually more upset that he’s being shitty to Joyce, who has changed a LOT, with great effort and at great cost to herself. Fuck right off with that, Joe.

    1. BenRG

      “I am not obliged to improve or even change because you are not perfect” is one of the come-backs that I loathe more than anything else.

      1. JBento

        I’ll take “What is whataboutism?” for 500, Alex.

    2. ShinyNeen

      Yeah. It’s bad enough to give up on yourself, but it’s even worse to tell other people that they shouldn’t try either. I’m really glad Joyce doesn’t buy into that for a second, and it’s super cool that she’s proud of how much she’s changed.

  29. smarties

    Joe is still a creepy douche. Cool.

    People change, but there is no reason to wait and hope on someone being decent when they actively don’t want to be. It’s Joe’s responsibility to make himself a decent person. No one else’s. Leslie should use him as a teaching moment for the rest of the class. Joe can be in or out of the room for that.

    1. Jay

      Douche sure but how is he being creepy? It’s a cheesy shirt I wouldn’t say it’s a creepy one

      1. Emily

        It’s absolutely creepy. “Hey, I wanna stare at your tits” is a creepy sentiment to have on your shirt.

        1. Jay

          Meh. I don’t think a cheesy shirt is all that bad. It’s like those F.B.I shirts but not as funny

        2. Emily

          Those shirts are in fact also gross and also not funny. “hahaha men feel entitled to judge women’s bodies” is not a funny joke its a grim reality.

    2. Icalasari

      He’s sliding back because of Malaya, basically

      1. Emily

        He’s sliding back because of Joe.

        1. Zaxares

          I wouldn’t absolve Joe of his responsibility in this, no. All the same, his experience with Malaya basically told him “See? There ARE ladies who like your macho, sexist act and are perfectly happy and consenting to jump on the Joe Train.”

          I can’t bring myself to support Joe’s behaviour, but all the same… I can’t bring myself to condemn him if that’s what some people (i.e. Malaya) actually like. Otherwise, it’s straying close to territory that I feel very passionately about as a kinkster who’s suffered YEARS of people mocking or shaming what we like just because it’s different from what “normal people” get off to.

        2. CJ

          Well, as I understand kink, it requires consent of all parties involved and Joe inflicts his shirt and attitude on people who don’t want to have that around.

        3. TemperaryObsessor

          Exactly having a water fight with another consenting person in a place where you can reasonably expect non consenting people won’t get caught in the crossfire sounds like good fun.
          Chucking water balloons at random people who haven’t agreed sounds obnoxious. Plus if they are wearing or holding something that can’t get wet its morally vandalism. If its already cold out its morally assault.
          Even having a waterfight
          I’m actually not sure I’m okay with what Malaya did either because it looks like half the reason she liked the water fight was because other people who are not her and didn’t agree to it got splashed on as well.

          I don’t blame Joyce for trying to “reform” Ethan but I do blame her for using it as an excuse to pressure him for kisses. Because Ethan agreed to a relationship based on helping each other avoid temptation.

        4. Emily

          Some people are into humiliation play that doesn’t mean it’s okay to greet every woman you meet with “Hey, you worthless slut.” Fuck even people who are into that usually don’t want some random dude they have no relationship with subjecting them to it in public. If you think people expecting you to keep your kinks between you and your consenting, informed partners is shaming then you shouldn’t be engaging in kink.

        5. BBCC

          Also, there’s a difference between pretending to be a misogynistic ass for the sake of play time with your partner, and actually going around acting like a misogynistic ass for real (or in a way that is indistinguishable from real as some would say this is because Joe’s given up or is only acting this way as a defence mechanism).

        6. Zaxares

          See, that’s where the line can get a bit blurry. What’s your stance then on things like kink parades where open nudity, sometimes with very explicit toys involved, is on show? No doubt there would be plenty of people who would find that going too far (I, for one, wouldn’t be caught dead in such a parade, because I have zero exhibitionism in me), but clearly, there ARE people who get off on that, and there are other people who are far more open about their alternative sexuality than us. And sometimes, how else are you going to raise awareness among people who may have never heard about this particular brand of kink before except by actually showing it to them? I have a male friend who discovered he was actually into sexual humiliation and told me that he never would have discovered it on his own in a million years until he ran into a mutual friend of ours who sort of “let him have it”.

          All that said, I do agree that as a baseline rule, don’t push your kinks onto other people unless they express an interest. At the same time, it can be very hard to actually LET people know you’re into this stuff because of fear of recrimination/alienation from others. I guess that’s basically what I’m trying to get across. Wearing a shirt like Joe’s is teetering on the edge of (maybe just a bit over it) what I’d consider acceptable, but if Joe was content to leave it at that and not creep on every single girl he came across, I’d be willing to let it slide.

        7. Emily

          Kink social media exists. Kink dating services exist. Even if they didn’t your desire to find people who share your kinks is infinitely less important than every woman’s right to exist in public spaces without having to deal with being objectified by gross men with no boundaries or respect for women’s dignity.

        8. thejeff

          I think Malaya may actually have given Joe a taste of what being on the other end of his schtick feels like. She didn’t actually like his “macho sexist act”, she just wanted to check off a box. She didn’t want him or even the sex particularly, she just wanted to get with the “do” list guy everyone was talking about.

          And he walked away from Joyce for bad sex.

  30. AntJ

    KISS HIM, JOYCE

  31. abysswatcher1993

    Leslie could use that shirt though. It wouldn’t be wrong.

  32. Ophidiophile

    Don’t do that, Leslie; Joe already has narcissist tendencies.

  33. Architex

    Big Nose!

  34. foducool

    why not both?

  35. jilo

    Joe, nooooooo!

  36. Bagge

    I thought Joe knew better than to become a teachable moment by now.

    I thought wrong…

    http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/cavemen/

    1. ShinyNeen

      Joe’s decided that he can’t change, which includes accepting that he’s just going to keep becoming a teachable moment.

      Over and over.

      1. Bagge

        Well, at least back then he tried to be smart about it. Keep his trap shut, watch out for Leslie’s ‘traps’ (because he still seem to think of education in terms of some kind of trick). Now he just went full class clown. ‘Ooooooh, look how sexist I am.’

        Granted, that last part is not entirely new either
        http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/unit/

  37. BenRG

    Either Joyce is about to burst into tears, hit Joe or never talk to him again… Or maybe all three. I wonder if he’ll get the message if Leslie kicks him out of class due to ‘offensive apparel choices’.

    1. Jay

      If he gets kicked out over this being offensive imma laugh, this is the most tame shite imo.

      1. Zach

        You keep saying that and missing the point. He’s disrupted her class at least twice, openly mocks His professor and the material, and I bet he is wearing it to be disrespectful.

    2. Reltzik

      Not option 3. Willis will find some reason for them to interact again.

    3. thejeff

      I suspect that’s his intent.

    4. Jimmy Joe III

      Kicking him out would do the OPPOSITE of teaching him.

  38. PB

    Alt-text i c wut u did thar

    I didn’t actually see that movie until last year.

  39. NinjaNick

    Joe will make a great subject of “What Not To Wear”.

    1. BenRG

      Or ‘How to Fail at Being Adult’.

  40. Screwball

    Wow, all these 97+ comments, and nobody picked up on the hovertext thing and what it means. Does….does this mean I have beaten you Humans at something?!?! I have, haven’t I? Now THIS day I wouldn’t mind repeating, even if I’m not in America…

    IT’S GROUNDHOG DAY!!!

    Daniel the Human has shown me the movie. Now don’t Drive angry. Don’t Drive angry…

    1. Needfuldoer

      Okay campers, rise and shine! And don’t forget your booties because it’s COOOOOOLD out there!

      1. StClair

        I’ve got you, babe.

  41. Arianod

    Both is fine.

  42. FacelessDeviant

    People are saying “Do both”. I’d say “Do neither”.

    Obviously, Joe needs the classes more than most. So kicking him out would be counter productive.

    Making him the subject of the class would single him out in front of other peoples scorn, which is not really a teachers place to do. It could also lead to him going on the defensive, closing his mind.

    1. JBento

      Leslie already threw Roz to the wolves once, so singling students out is not something she has a stellar record on.

    2. BBCC

      Joe doesn’t listen in these classes even when they’re not about him. “He’d close his mind” is kinda irrelevant when he’s not listening anyways. May as well make sure the other students get something out of him being a disruptive ass in class for once.

      1. Jimmy Joe III

        Do you KNOW that he’s not listening? He made progress, surely, regression or not. Plus, he’s the one who actually NEEDS the class, as the rest of the students in it presumably already agree with what’s being said.

        1. BBCC

          “Maybe people don’t change” says to me that he’s gone back to square one and (at least outwardly) doesn’t care to try to improve. Like, right here, he is ignoring and refusing to listen to Joyce. He’s refused to listen to Leslie when it challenged his schtick before.

          Second of all, not everyone does agree with what Leslie says. Even if they did, that doesn’t make Joe being a disruptive ass okay. If he’s not going to listen, then whether he needs the class or not is irrelevant. Focus on the people who want to learn.

    3. Emily

      His need for the class is not more important then the rest of the class’s right to a respectful learning environment. If he wants to be a gross, disrespectful idiot he can do it without a captive audience.

  43. Tualha

    Is it just me, or does Leslie look a lot like Ryan-the-rapist in that last panel? Nose, tuft of hair, eyes.

  44. Tualha

    Oh, BTW, congrats to David Willis for being one of the few English-speaking cartoonists left on Earth who know how to spell “whoa”.

  45. ShinyNeen

    Leslie looks nice today! I love that shade of blue. I guess somebody had to pick up the ol’ sweatervests while Joyce is dressing differently.

  46. JBento

    I like (“like”) how so many people are going “that shirt that dude’s wearing is so disrespectful to women” and then they follow it with a justification on why they blame Malaya for it.

    For all the terribleness that Mike displays, it’s amazing how often he’s right.

    1. PB

      For the record, the only reason I thought of Malaya was that he has the same JBF hair as he did once he left her room the first time.

      But I don’t think she’s the reason for the shirt. Especially not with the way he’s acting around Joyce. That sort of casual disrespect after he knows what she’s been through can only come from self-denial and backsliding.

  47. Delavan

    Everyone focusing on “regression” and “Malaya” – this is obvious. The Malaya hookup triggered Joe’s self-loathing and need to be/worries he is his father. So he’s lapsed into defense mechanisms. It isn’t Malaya’s fault, but she is the immediate cause. The ultimate cause is still, as it has always been, Joe’s toxic masculine, arguably emotionally abusive, impulsive idiot of a father.

    1. Delavan

      I should add, holding Joe completely responsible is naive. He’s responsible, but in the sense that it’s his responsibility to make progress and try to break out of his shitty upbringing. That kind of task is never fast, nor easy, and is prone to knee-jerk defensiveness and repeated regressions. It isn’t a linear process, and to think and act like it is, is both naive and self-defeating in the long-run.

    2. Jimmy Joe III

      Is Joe’s father toxic BECAUSE he is masculine, or is he masculine in a toxic way?

      1. BBCC

        Toxic masculinity refers to masculinity taken to the point of toxicity – for example, the idea that ‘real men’ don’t do anything ‘girly’ like wear pink.

        1. joyfulldreams

          I really don’t understand how so many people misinterpret the term ‘toxic masculinity’ to mean that all masculinity is toxic. Like. Just from the way the words work, it’s obvious the ‘toxic’ is an adjective being added onto ‘masculinity’. It’s like ah yes, the phrase ‘red car’ means all cars are red? No, there are cars, and then there are red cars. There is masculinity, and then there is masculinity which is toxic. And we call that…toxic masculinity.

          Like not even getting into the history of the term or the specific social trends it describes, it just seems like an inherent misunderstanding of how words work?

        2. thejeff

          In general? Because they’re deliberately misinterpreting it, so they can be justified in turning it back as an attack on all men rather than grapple with the actual issues.
          Or because they’ve been trained to read it that way by others who are doing so deliberately.

        3. Yumi

          Hey, I saw you on glumshoe’s tumblr!

        4. BBCC

          Wait, what?

        5. Yumi

          Not you, joyfulldreams. They sent in a similar ask to a tumblr I follow. Don’t see the ask now, though. They probably deleted it because jerks.

        6. BBCC

          No, I got that, I was wondering if there was a link because I checked to see joyfulldreams on that tumblr and I didn’t see it.

        7. Yumi

          Yeah, people frequently go off in their notes, so it’s hard to know what’ll still be there a bit later.

  48. ValdVin

    Part of me wants Joyce to just forget trying to be friends with Joe.

    Another part of me thinks we’re gonna get more drama/interaction between them, if only because (1) Willis and (2) when these two start talking seriously we get plenty of Big Iris Joyce.

    http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/object/

    http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/lying/

  49. Doopyboop

    And here we see a wild Joe! Frightened by his own ability to change and the idea of unknowns that would open up, it seems he has decided to double down! A regrettable decision indeed. But, eh, as disappointed as I am, not everybody can change easily. Even Joyce, as much as she has changed, still needs to address her unhealthy views on relationships (cough, her reaction to everything involving Walky in these past several strips, cough, everything Jacob related).

  50. Jimmy Joe III

    Tell me how, exactly, an idiot advertising himself as a douchebag is harmful? If anything, it just makes it easier to identify him as a person not to interact with.

    1. joyfulldreams

      Mostly because there are many many people out there who don’t see that as being a douchebag, and in fact, alerts all other douchebags in his vicinity that they have comrades in their douchebaggery and encourages them to do more douchebaggy things.

  51. Sporky

    panel 5 is like, the funniest thing to me for some reason

    1. JBento

      ‘sfunny cuz it’s true.

  52. JBento

    I just realised this is sort of like a call back to the other universe, where Joe is with Rachel, who ALSO believes people don’t change.

  53. Tunasammich

    Not a complaint about the comic this is just the way some people are, but just, ugh. Man. Gross. This is gross. If I saw a guy wearing a shirt like that I wouldn’t want to be within 20,000 feet of him

  54. Sock_V

    Groundhog Day alt-text?

    1. Agemegos

      (1) The 2nd of February (the date in the real worlds when the strip was published) is called “Groundhog Day” in the USA & Canada

      (2) There was a movie made back in 1993 called Groundhog Day in which the protagonist woke up day after day to find that it was the 2nd of February, he was snowed in in Punxsutawney PA, that the situation was exactly the same as yesterday morning, and nobody but him remembered yesterday being 2 February. It was really good.

  55. Nicolette

    All this insightful conversation and the only going through my head is A) How hot Joe is and B) How hot it will be in 7 years when Joyce and he start dating.

    ….. If I speak it into existence, it’s bound to happen right? Right…?….. Brb drawing fansliption.

  56. Emily

    People change Joe, you just didn’t because you suck and can’t be bothered to.

    1. StClair

      IMO, more like he tried, he failed, and took that (one) failure to mean that he can never succeed.

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