I think he’s just tired of an overly complicated vinegar flavored meal he’s been working on for… how long have he and Raidah been together? Something tells me he wants something light fluffy and sweet instead. Y’know, not too complicated.
Ah well, he should make up his mind about what he wants to eat and where he wants to eat it before he ends up mixing up his meals and getting indigestion.
I know you’re talking about relationships but as a cook, if your meal doesn’t taste proper you do it OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT IS RIGHT OR ALL YOUR DISHES ARE BROKEN IN RAGE
HeySo
As a poor person, you eat that first meal, no matter how messed up it is, and you’re grateful just to have something to eat at all. And then you think about people throwing away perfectly good food because it’s “not proper”, and your eye does.. a thing.
Of course, the notion that the alternate menu item in this case is ‘not too complicated’ is an interesting one. I mean, Joyce is an absolute seven-layer dip.
The first thing that popped into my head when i read “light fluffy and sweet” was the lyrics from the bloodhound gang song and somehow, it still fit with what i think Jacob was thinking in a way.
I think the problem here is that Jacob has spent so much time trying to fill his brothers shoes do to the high expectations people have for him that he seems a bit depressed over things being all work and no play.
Raidah passive aggressively mocks Joyce for being childish and care free but I think Jacob’s see’s that and wishes he could have a bit that free spirited morale in his life. It’s probably why he likes hanging out with Joyce.
Yeah, that’s why I don’t get some of the comments about “having morals” about breaking these two up. Raidah’s well on her way to getting the job done on her own.
Jacob runs into Walky and it’s love at first sight, thus solving both their relationship problems.
CleverTrousers
C’mon, Doctor. Don’t pull another End of Time Part 2 and pair off the two (of four who I can remember) black people on the cast because you think it’s better if you get to snog the blonde teenagers.
martha was one of the best companions regardless btw planting my flag on this hill
Durandal_1707
Definitely the best one of the RTD era.
Doctor_Who
RTD had some weird ideas about tying up loose ends, didn’t he? Have two characters who barely ever interacted get married offscreen, visit the descendant of someone he cared about, not the person themselves, and help Captain Jack get laid (as if he’s ever had difficulty with that).
Moffat’s run may have been spotty in parts, but at least he knew how to say goodbye; a short and sweet scene where the Old Doctor addresses the New Doctor, which doubles as the Old Actor speaking to the New Actor and the Old Writer giving notes to the New Writer.
Russel T. Davis, the showrunner for Doctor Who during the 9th and 10 Doctor runs.
Cyrus
Unless Joyce straight up murders Raidah, it will be his choice.
Doctor_Who
Now I’m imagining Joyce as a Yandere, and it’s creepy.
She’s got the smile for it.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
Um, I’m pretty sure that Joyce was a text-book Yandere back in Roomies (less so in It’s Walky – the memory wipe helped). No matter what the recent video game might suggest, most Yandere don’t actually hurt anyone physically.
I believe Delicious Taffy is talking about Yandere Simulator, a game stuck in development hell (and yes, it’s exactly what it says on the tin) whose creator, YandereDev, is indeed a scumbag.
Jon Rich
Are you saying that they’re a scumbag for making the game, or is there something else going on, too?
There’s a lot going on with him, from what I’ve heard. He’s a control freak, can’t accept criticism, tells his fans to kill themselves on livestreams (and a good portion of them are underage), steals assets for his game, ‘hires’ people to work on his game but never actually pays them, among other things. I’m probably not the best person to ask this to, though, since I only found out about his existence last month and I haven’t been following this since.
To stay on topic with DoA: I support the idea of Jacob getting a clue and ditching both Raidah and Joyce.
Durandal_1707
Exactly. She’s just putting herself out there. No one’s forcing Jacob to do anything.
Durandal_1707
*beaten by drs, who put it better than I did anyway.
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
And his fault if he ends up as Raidah’s means to an end at his expense because he can’t see a red flag or two….How deep in their relationship were they in before Raidah found out about his brother?
drs
How would it possibly be anyone else’s choice? Joyce can’t actually break them up.
And seems to me that all she’s really doing is putting herself out there. She’s being herself, or a more confident version of herself than we’re used to. Her flirting with Jacob is largely them having chemistry, which is why Sarah thought aiming Joyce at Jacob had a chance in the first place. It’s up to Jacob to sit back and enjoy the show, shut her down, or decide that hey, a two month freshman relationship isn’t a romance for the ages.
saltchocolate
This.^
Wraithy2773
Joyce has explicitly stated previously that she wants to break up Jacob and Raidah so that Jacob will be with someone that Joyce approves of, Sarah initially and her now.
I don’t fucking care how good or bad Raidah is. She can be Queen Bongo of the Universe for all it matters, because it’s not about her, it’s about Jacob.
The moment that Joyce started on this road, everything about it became tainted. The moment she went from “I’m just being nice to this guy that’s nice and friendly” to “…I want to be with him and I don’t care what his actual girlfriend has to say about it”, she crossed a line.
It’s little more than Nice Guy Entitlement, and it frankly sickens me.
Emily
Didn’t you know Nice Guy Entitlement is okay though when it’s coming from the pretty white girl.
thejeff
Well, she was never really “I’m just being nice to this guy that’s nice and friendly”. She went straight from “Jacob would be good for Sarah” to “I’m going to help Sarah break them up so she can get together with him” to “I’m going to break them up for me.” There was never a point without the ulterior motives.
And I don’t really think it’s got much to do with Nice Guy Entitlement. It’s shitty, but it’s a different kind of shitty.
Part of what’s throwing some people, is the distinction between Joyce’s intent and her actual actions. Ignoring intent, we haven’t seen her do anything that bad – she’s just been hanging out with him in a friendly way, right? She hasn’t bad-mouthed Raidah. She hasn’t made an open move on him. She’s just there, being attractive.
And yet we know her intent. We know she wants to get him to fall for her and leave Raidah, which casts everything she does in a different light for me.
I think that’s partly where the difference from the Nice Guy (Nice Gal?) comes in – the stereotypical nice gal would be stewing over how bad the other partner was, but would be trying to position herself to be there for the inevitable breakup or passive-aggressively tearing the other down, rather than trying to win him with her own charms.
Emily
I mean that’s kinda exactly what Nice Guys do: passively exist in the object of their affection’s orbit in the guise of a friend without stating their romantic intentions so they can’t be clearly shot down, it just happens she started out acting as like a Nice Guy by proxy for Sarah. Like, Joyce is too generally good natured for the kind of festering resentment you often see in Nice Guys but her playbook isn’t far off and her behaviour is still rooted in a belief that she is entitled to insert herself into Jacob’s love life because she knows what’s best for him. The difference is semantics.
thejeff
Perhaps. I think it’s different.
I suspect Joyce is already less passive and is probably going to become less so.
She’s really more the “Other Woman” stereotype here. She’s actively trying to seduce him (in her own way), not just waiting for them to break up.
And frankly, without the festering resentment and without the “I did stuff for you, you owe me dates and sex”, I’m not actually sure what’s left that’s wrong with the Nice Guy. At that point, we’re really left with “I’ve got a crush on you that I haven’t told you about since you’re dating someone else, but that’s okay. I’m cool with it.” We’ve pretty much all been there.
Skeptible
So… Thought Crime? (Namely ” I want this person to choose me over someone else”) I guess I just never saw dating as a inviolate bond, so I don’t see a problem unless lies are involved
siburyo
I feel like a lot of the arguments over this stem from a disagreement over how serious “dating” should be.
Dana
You can’t ever find out where the dating is going to go if other people are constantly moving in on you. And it might be useful to practice actual monogamy so you know if you can handle it in an actual full-blown commitment.
Some people here may be poly and may say “uh what about poly people” but I’ve seen how summayou folks handle that stuff and let me say I’m mostly not impressed. Plus I’m not poly so I can’t speak from that perspective, not that there is ONE poly perspective anyway. If there’s anything you can say for mono people, it’s that they put more of an emphasis on boundaries and clean breaks. Ideally. In theory that means less emotional/psychic garbage to have to drag around.
HeySo
“You can’t ever find out where the dating is going to go if other people are constantly moving in on you”
Sounds like we’re attributing someone’s inability to handle their own relationship decisions on other people. I mean, are we really taking the “it’s their fault for being interested in me, I couldn’t help myself” angle? Good grief.
Not sure how Poly came into this, but Poly is just monogamy with more people and a theoretically, potentially better end result. In short, the support structure and bonds formed could be that much more significant and reliable.. but imagine the difficulty of having a functional monogamous relationship, and then EXPONENTIALLY multiply it. It’s obvious that most poly relationships wouldn’t work out- though that doesn’t mean it isn’t something to aim for (if that’s an acceptable relationship structure for you), since the potential end result could be massively beneficial.
But, anyway. Poly has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, not only because it never came up in any way, but also because Poly (even just the less idealized, sexualized interpretation) requires openness (or it’s not poly, it’s cheating), meaning it can’t have been implied in any way.
In any case, if you’re that easily lured away from your current partner then, 1: You shouldn’t in a relationship with them, since it’s clear your relationship wasn’t strong and 2: You shouldn’t be in a relationship with anyone, since you lack proper respect for your partners. That has nothing to do with anyone hitting on you, regardless of how sultry and seductive they may be going about it [assuming they’re not actively deceiving you about anything, or manipulating you against your partner, or so forth]. It certainly doesn’t apply to respectful flirting, or to open admissions of interest. You have the ability to make a mature decision about your relationship progressions- casting aside that responsibility to put blame on others makes it pretty readily evident that the individual in question isn’t mature enough to properly handle a relationship of any sort.
And there we loop back to “even a basic monogamous relationship is difficult.. and requires effort“.
Final note, it’s “psychological”. Psychic is a bit different. 🙂
HeySo
There’s a tl;dr version by Eolirin just below 😛
Victor
Joyce owes Raidah nothing. We’re not talking about a marriage, we’re talking about a college freshman relationship that’s maybe a month old.
thejeff
She owes Jacob not messing with his relationship.
Because you know, she likes Jacob and should respect his choices.
Eolirin
The thing is, she’s not. Jacob’s choices are his own, and every single person making the whole Joyce is being awful in having the intent of winning Jacob over and getting him to break up with Raidah seem to completely ignore that Jacob has actual agency and isn’t beholden in any way to Joyce’s whims, desires or intent.
Joyce can’t break them up unless Jacob wants them to break up, and the sorts of things that would actually cross a line, like spreading vicious rumors about Raidah, trying to create tension between her and Jacob’s other friends, or attempting to sabotage Raidah academically or socially isn’t happening.
Joyce is competing, and isn’t doing so in an underhanded way. Jacob isn’t being denied agency.
Durandal_1707
^ Yes.
thejeff
Yeah, we’ve all been over this any number of times since this storyline started.
You’re right. He still gets choices. She’s not actually taking his free will away. Nonetheless I think it’s uncool to try to do so, even not using the nastiest of methods.
They’re dating. Don’t hit on him. If they break up someday, ask him out then.
But I’m sure we’re going to disagree on this and I don’t really have anything further to say.
Dana
It is still rude to presume to tell someone, directly or indirectly, that you know better than they do about whom they should be dating. Let’s talk about agency here, by all means. *Joyce* has agency. And maybe she shouldn’t be abusing it.
I still like the lady, don’t get me wrong. I just think she needs to chill and let things run their course. Raidah’s not what you’d call a terribly nice person, and Jacob’s going to figure that out eventually when his hormones stop getting in the way.
ego
you respect someone’s right to make their own decisions, and joyce neither has the privileged position nor has demonstrated the inclination to violate THAT rule. if anything, she is *presenting* him with choices to make, and you’re calling for her to *restrict* his options to choose among.
respecting someone’s decisions? like, each and every one? not only do you not owe anybody that, it’s not even possible to deliver that. if you ever go a *week* without making a forehead-slappingly stupid decision, let me know how it feels. ive certainly never done it, never seen it done.
thejeff
Nah, I’ve done plenty of dumb stuff.
But I don’t hit on people in relationships.
Dana
He doesn’t need her help to make any decisions about whom he’s dating. He’s perfectly capable of dumping Raidah on his own and then going and chatting Joyce up if that is what he wants to do. The fact he is not doing it tells me that either he’s not interested in Joyce or that the interest only goes as far as theory and not far enough for him to want to act on it. Either way, he’s where he wants to be. It’s dating, not stealing plutonium for a flux capacitor from Middle Eastern terrorists. There are far worse decisions a person can make.
HeySo
He still barely knows Joyce, and he’s still in a relationship with Raidah, which he needs to come to conclusions about. Are you forgetting the pacing of the comic’s timeline, or? ’cause I can’t figure out why you seem to be arguing against the very point you made just above. 😛
“Hi, let’s be friends. And I’ll be flirty, because I’m interested in you. If you don’t reciprocate that interest, that’s fine. But, rather than confront you about your bad relationship, let me passively offer you an alternative, for comparison. If you don’t accept that- agan, that’s fine, I won’t push it.” is a far cry different from the sort of seduction and manipulation and so forth that people are attributing to Joyce.
I mean, gods. Joyce isn’t acting any differently than some people do naturally, and such people (excluding those who ARE actively flirting with everyone) have it well-established that they’re not intentionally trying to “put moves” on someone. It’s not like Joyce is there complimenting Jacob’s biceps and talking about how good his abs must make him in bed. There’s nothing remotely improper going on.
And, as you say- he’s where he wants to be, and noone is trying to coerce him out of that. Name one clear thing that Joyce has done that remotely crosses a line, outside of the scope of “thought crimes”?
Fomalhaut88
Did common human decency and lack of malice stop existing?
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
They’ll just get in the way, for, oh Earth and Sea, Sarah and Raidah hath found themselves their next Dana!!!!! Zounds and Gadzooks!
It’s one thing to talk to a friend, tell them you don’t think a relationship is good for them. It’s another to say “therefore you should be with me” or try to *make* them end a relationship.
I suspect it is going to do what she expects it to do. At least in the short term. (Eventually I expect she’ll escalate far enough to piss Jacob off, but we’re nowhere near that yet.)
This is relatively subtle “crapping on your boyfriend’s friends”. Just reminding him of things they’ve joked about and how much better of an impression she’ll make than that kid would.
Remember that Jacob and Sarah first bonded over silly Joyce stories. If you’re looking at Raidah through somewhat rose-tinted glasses (and are completely oblivious to the tension), this doesn’t look that different.
383 thoughts on “Numerous”
Ana Chronistic
Jacob was jonesin’ for those not-spicy chicken doobers tho
Arawn
I think he’s just tired of an overly complicated vinegar flavored meal he’s been working on for… how long have he and Raidah been together? Something tells me he wants something light fluffy and sweet instead. Y’know, not too complicated.
Ah well, he should make up his mind about what he wants to eat and where he wants to eat it before he ends up mixing up his meals and getting indigestion.
Mr D
I know you’re talking about relationships but as a cook, if your meal doesn’t taste proper you do it OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT IS RIGHT OR ALL YOUR DISHES ARE BROKEN IN RAGE
HeySo
As a poor person, you eat that first meal, no matter how messed up it is, and you’re grateful just to have something to eat at all. And then you think about people throwing away perfectly good food because it’s “not proper”, and your eye does.. a thing.
Mr D
Who says I throw away the food?
Deanatay
So, after months of some boutique micro-batch spicy Worchestershire sauce, he’s hankerin’ for some sweet Heinz?
(Joyce got dat Heinz goin on)
wraith_ferron
Joyce would have a honey sauce, and I’m sure Jacob would be interested in Joyce’s bee-Heinz.
Jupiterror
underappreciated wordplay tbh
Freemage
Of course, the notion that the alternate menu item in this case is ‘not too complicated’ is an interesting one. I mean, Joyce is an absolute seven-layer dip.
Ana Chronistic
With all the ingredients in their own separate bowls
HeySo
And now I’m hungry for dip.. :X
mookfish
The first thing that popped into my head when i read “light fluffy and sweet” was the lyrics from the bloodhound gang song and somehow, it still fit with what i think Jacob was thinking in a way.
ShinyNeen
Aaaaaaand Anxiety!
Whoof. Sorry, Jacob.
newllend(henryvolt)
I think the problem here is that Jacob has spent so much time trying to fill his brothers shoes do to the high expectations people have for him that he seems a bit depressed over things being all work and no play.
Raidah passive aggressively mocks Joyce for being childish and care free but I think Jacob’s see’s that and wishes he could have a bit that free spirited morale in his life. It’s probably why he likes hanging out with Joyce.
James Rye
Yeah, it seem Jacob WANTS to be childish, as in having fun and be care-free and not worry too much about this or that or how other people see him.
Architex
What happened to that sushi joint the gang took Becky to?
Doctor_Who
Galasso defeated them, as he shall all restaurants! In the end, there will be only Galasso’s!
(And Taco Bell, according to Demolition Man)
abysswatcher1993
Or a combination of Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.
L33tmaster
Ah yes demolition man good times….
Dang now i wanna see Wesley Snipes and Sylvester Stallone show up and Galasso and just have a random cage fight…
Needfuldoer
As long as Sly gets to yell “PHOENIX!!” a few times!
Annonymouse
Nah, all three huddled in confused conversation on how exactly does one use The Three Shells.
Tgape
I’m not sure we saw the same movie.
They *called* it Taco Bell, but it looked all Galasso’s to me.
CJ
I thought Galasso’s served Shushi, too?
Ryek Hvek
his signature Indiana Rolls, filled with Arby’s
JetstreamGW
Yessss, crapping on your boyfriend’s friends. That’s productive. And clever. And going to do exactly what you want it to do.
Durandal_1707
Yeah, that’s why I don’t get some of the comments about “having morals” about breaking these two up. Raidah’s well on her way to getting the job done on her own.
butts
That’d be Jacob’s choice (or hers, if it comes to that). It shouldn’t be anyone else’s.
Doctor_Who
Pair the Spares!
Jacob runs into Walky and it’s love at first sight, thus solving both their relationship problems.
CleverTrousers
C’mon, Doctor. Don’t pull another End of Time Part 2 and pair off the two (of four who I can remember) black people on the cast because you think it’s better if you get to snog the blonde teenagers.
Delicious Taffy
martha was one of the best companions regardless btw planting my flag on this hill
Durandal_1707
Definitely the best one of the RTD era.
Doctor_Who
RTD had some weird ideas about tying up loose ends, didn’t he? Have two characters who barely ever interacted get married offscreen, visit the descendant of someone he cared about, not the person themselves, and help Captain Jack get laid (as if he’s ever had difficulty with that).
Moffat’s run may have been spotty in parts, but at least he knew how to say goodbye; a short and sweet scene where the Old Doctor addresses the New Doctor, which doubles as the Old Actor speaking to the New Actor and the Old Writer giving notes to the New Writer.
Jon Rich
RTD?
sun tzu
Russel T. Davis, the showrunner for Doctor Who during the 9th and 10 Doctor runs.
Cyrus
Unless Joyce straight up murders Raidah, it will be his choice.
Doctor_Who
Now I’m imagining Joyce as a Yandere, and it’s creepy.
She’s got the smile for it.
LeslieBean4Shizzle
Um, I’m pretty sure that Joyce was a text-book Yandere back in Roomies (less so in It’s Walky – the memory wipe helped). No matter what the recent video game might suggest, most Yandere don’t actually hurt anyone physically.
Delicious Taffy
Thanks for reminding me of that borderline vaporware travesty and it’s scumbag creator.
Delicious Taffy
*its, you fucking reprobate
DrunkenNordmann
… wait, where did that come from?
timemonkey
What has the creator done?
Deadjolras
I believe Delicious Taffy is talking about Yandere Simulator, a game stuck in development hell (and yes, it’s exactly what it says on the tin) whose creator, YandereDev, is indeed a scumbag.
Jon Rich
Are you saying that they’re a scumbag for making the game, or is there something else going on, too?
Deadjolras
There’s a lot going on with him, from what I’ve heard. He’s a control freak, can’t accept criticism, tells his fans to kill themselves on livestreams (and a good portion of them are underage), steals assets for his game, ‘hires’ people to work on his game but never actually pays them, among other things. I’m probably not the best person to ask this to, though, since I only found out about his existence last month and I haven’t been following this since.
To stay on topic with DoA: I support the idea of Jacob getting a clue and ditching both Raidah and Joyce.
Durandal_1707
Exactly. She’s just putting herself out there. No one’s forcing Jacob to do anything.
Durandal_1707
*beaten by drs, who put it better than I did anyway.
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
And his fault if he ends up as Raidah’s means to an end at his expense because he can’t see a red flag or two….How deep in their relationship were they in before Raidah found out about his brother?
drs
How would it possibly be anyone else’s choice? Joyce can’t actually break them up.
And seems to me that all she’s really doing is putting herself out there. She’s being herself, or a more confident version of herself than we’re used to. Her flirting with Jacob is largely them having chemistry, which is why Sarah thought aiming Joyce at Jacob had a chance in the first place. It’s up to Jacob to sit back and enjoy the show, shut her down, or decide that hey, a two month freshman relationship isn’t a romance for the ages.
saltchocolate
This.^
Wraithy2773
Joyce has explicitly stated previously that she wants to break up Jacob and Raidah so that Jacob will be with someone that Joyce approves of, Sarah initially and her now.
I don’t fucking care how good or bad Raidah is. She can be Queen Bongo of the Universe for all it matters, because it’s not about her, it’s about Jacob.
The moment that Joyce started on this road, everything about it became tainted. The moment she went from “I’m just being nice to this guy that’s nice and friendly” to “…I want to be with him and I don’t care what his actual girlfriend has to say about it”, she crossed a line.
It’s little more than Nice Guy Entitlement, and it frankly sickens me.
Emily
Didn’t you know Nice Guy Entitlement is okay though when it’s coming from the pretty white girl.
thejeff
Well, she was never really “I’m just being nice to this guy that’s nice and friendly”. She went straight from “Jacob would be good for Sarah” to “I’m going to help Sarah break them up so she can get together with him” to “I’m going to break them up for me.” There was never a point without the ulterior motives.
And I don’t really think it’s got much to do with Nice Guy Entitlement. It’s shitty, but it’s a different kind of shitty.
Part of what’s throwing some people, is the distinction between Joyce’s intent and her actual actions. Ignoring intent, we haven’t seen her do anything that bad – she’s just been hanging out with him in a friendly way, right? She hasn’t bad-mouthed Raidah. She hasn’t made an open move on him. She’s just there, being attractive.
And yet we know her intent. We know she wants to get him to fall for her and leave Raidah, which casts everything she does in a different light for me.
I think that’s partly where the difference from the Nice Guy (Nice Gal?) comes in – the stereotypical nice gal would be stewing over how bad the other partner was, but would be trying to position herself to be there for the inevitable breakup or passive-aggressively tearing the other down, rather than trying to win him with her own charms.
Emily
I mean that’s kinda exactly what Nice Guys do: passively exist in the object of their affection’s orbit in the guise of a friend without stating their romantic intentions so they can’t be clearly shot down, it just happens she started out acting as like a Nice Guy by proxy for Sarah. Like, Joyce is too generally good natured for the kind of festering resentment you often see in Nice Guys but her playbook isn’t far off and her behaviour is still rooted in a belief that she is entitled to insert herself into Jacob’s love life because she knows what’s best for him. The difference is semantics.
thejeff
Perhaps. I think it’s different.
I suspect Joyce is already less passive and is probably going to become less so.
She’s really more the “Other Woman” stereotype here. She’s actively trying to seduce him (in her own way), not just waiting for them to break up.
And frankly, without the festering resentment and without the “I did stuff for you, you owe me dates and sex”, I’m not actually sure what’s left that’s wrong with the Nice Guy. At that point, we’re really left with “I’ve got a crush on you that I haven’t told you about since you’re dating someone else, but that’s okay. I’m cool with it.” We’ve pretty much all been there.
Skeptible
So… Thought Crime? (Namely ” I want this person to choose me over someone else”) I guess I just never saw dating as a inviolate bond, so I don’t see a problem unless lies are involved
siburyo
I feel like a lot of the arguments over this stem from a disagreement over how serious “dating” should be.
Dana
You can’t ever find out where the dating is going to go if other people are constantly moving in on you. And it might be useful to practice actual monogamy so you know if you can handle it in an actual full-blown commitment.
Some people here may be poly and may say “uh what about poly people” but I’ve seen how summayou folks handle that stuff and let me say I’m mostly not impressed. Plus I’m not poly so I can’t speak from that perspective, not that there is ONE poly perspective anyway. If there’s anything you can say for mono people, it’s that they put more of an emphasis on boundaries and clean breaks. Ideally. In theory that means less emotional/psychic garbage to have to drag around.
HeySo
“You can’t ever find out where the dating is going to go if other people are constantly moving in on you”
Sounds like we’re attributing someone’s inability to handle their own relationship decisions on other people. I mean, are we really taking the “it’s their fault for being interested in me, I couldn’t help myself” angle? Good grief.
Not sure how Poly came into this, but Poly is just monogamy with more people and a theoretically, potentially better end result. In short, the support structure and bonds formed could be that much more significant and reliable.. but imagine the difficulty of having a functional monogamous relationship, and then EXPONENTIALLY multiply it. It’s obvious that most poly relationships wouldn’t work out- though that doesn’t mean it isn’t something to aim for (if that’s an acceptable relationship structure for you), since the potential end result could be massively beneficial.
But, anyway. Poly has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, not only because it never came up in any way, but also because Poly (even just the less idealized, sexualized interpretation) requires openness (or it’s not poly, it’s cheating), meaning it can’t have been implied in any way.
In any case, if you’re that easily lured away from your current partner then, 1: You shouldn’t in a relationship with them, since it’s clear your relationship wasn’t strong and 2: You shouldn’t be in a relationship with anyone, since you lack proper respect for your partners. That has nothing to do with anyone hitting on you, regardless of how sultry and seductive they may be going about it [assuming they’re not actively deceiving you about anything, or manipulating you against your partner, or so forth]. It certainly doesn’t apply to respectful flirting, or to open admissions of interest. You have the ability to make a mature decision about your relationship progressions- casting aside that responsibility to put blame on others makes it pretty readily evident that the individual in question isn’t mature enough to properly handle a relationship of any sort.
And there we loop back to “even a basic monogamous relationship is difficult.. and requires effort“.
Final note, it’s “psychological”. Psychic is a bit different. 🙂
HeySo
There’s a tl;dr version by Eolirin just below 😛
Victor
Joyce owes Raidah nothing. We’re not talking about a marriage, we’re talking about a college freshman relationship that’s maybe a month old.
thejeff
She owes Jacob not messing with his relationship.
Because you know, she likes Jacob and should respect his choices.
Eolirin
The thing is, she’s not. Jacob’s choices are his own, and every single person making the whole Joyce is being awful in having the intent of winning Jacob over and getting him to break up with Raidah seem to completely ignore that Jacob has actual agency and isn’t beholden in any way to Joyce’s whims, desires or intent.
Joyce can’t break them up unless Jacob wants them to break up, and the sorts of things that would actually cross a line, like spreading vicious rumors about Raidah, trying to create tension between her and Jacob’s other friends, or attempting to sabotage Raidah academically or socially isn’t happening.
Joyce is competing, and isn’t doing so in an underhanded way. Jacob isn’t being denied agency.
Durandal_1707
^ Yes.
thejeff
Yeah, we’ve all been over this any number of times since this storyline started.
You’re right. He still gets choices. She’s not actually taking his free will away. Nonetheless I think it’s uncool to try to do so, even not using the nastiest of methods.
They’re dating. Don’t hit on him. If they break up someday, ask him out then.
But I’m sure we’re going to disagree on this and I don’t really have anything further to say.
Dana
It is still rude to presume to tell someone, directly or indirectly, that you know better than they do about whom they should be dating. Let’s talk about agency here, by all means. *Joyce* has agency. And maybe she shouldn’t be abusing it.
I still like the lady, don’t get me wrong. I just think she needs to chill and let things run their course. Raidah’s not what you’d call a terribly nice person, and Jacob’s going to figure that out eventually when his hormones stop getting in the way.
ego
you respect someone’s right to make their own decisions, and joyce neither has the privileged position nor has demonstrated the inclination to violate THAT rule. if anything, she is *presenting* him with choices to make, and you’re calling for her to *restrict* his options to choose among.
respecting someone’s decisions? like, each and every one? not only do you not owe anybody that, it’s not even possible to deliver that. if you ever go a *week* without making a forehead-slappingly stupid decision, let me know how it feels. ive certainly never done it, never seen it done.
thejeff
Nah, I’ve done plenty of dumb stuff.
But I don’t hit on people in relationships.
Dana
He doesn’t need her help to make any decisions about whom he’s dating. He’s perfectly capable of dumping Raidah on his own and then going and chatting Joyce up if that is what he wants to do. The fact he is not doing it tells me that either he’s not interested in Joyce or that the interest only goes as far as theory and not far enough for him to want to act on it. Either way, he’s where he wants to be. It’s dating, not stealing plutonium for a flux capacitor from Middle Eastern terrorists. There are far worse decisions a person can make.
HeySo
He still barely knows Joyce, and he’s still in a relationship with Raidah, which he needs to come to conclusions about. Are you forgetting the pacing of the comic’s timeline, or? ’cause I can’t figure out why you seem to be arguing against the very point you made just above. 😛
“Hi, let’s be friends. And I’ll be flirty, because I’m interested in you. If you don’t reciprocate that interest, that’s fine. But, rather than confront you about your bad relationship, let me passively offer you an alternative, for comparison. If you don’t accept that- agan, that’s fine, I won’t push it.” is a far cry different from the sort of seduction and manipulation and so forth that people are attributing to Joyce.
I mean, gods. Joyce isn’t acting any differently than some people do naturally, and such people (excluding those who ARE actively flirting with everyone) have it well-established that they’re not intentionally trying to “put moves” on someone. It’s not like Joyce is there complimenting Jacob’s biceps and talking about how good his abs must make him in bed. There’s nothing remotely improper going on.
And, as you say- he’s where he wants to be, and noone is trying to coerce him out of that. Name one clear thing that Joyce has done that remotely crosses a line, outside of the scope of “thought crimes”?
Fomalhaut88
Did common human decency and lack of malice stop existing?
DudeMyDadOwnsADealership
They’ll just get in the way, for, oh Earth and Sea, Sarah and Raidah hath found themselves their next Dana!!!!! Zounds and Gadzooks!
All-Purpose Guru
Yeah, but how many times does something like this snowball and then you find out you’ve been married to the wrong person for 5 years?
Elisto
It’s one thing to talk to a friend, tell them you don’t think a relationship is good for them. It’s another to say “therefore you should be with me” or try to *make* them end a relationship.
thejeff
I suspect it is going to do what she expects it to do. At least in the short term. (Eventually I expect she’ll escalate far enough to piss Jacob off, but we’re nowhere near that yet.)
This is relatively subtle “crapping on your boyfriend’s friends”. Just reminding him of things they’ve joked about and how much better of an impression she’ll make than that kid would.
Remember that Jacob and Sarah first bonded over silly Joyce stories. If you’re looking at Raidah through somewhat rose-tinted glasses (and are completely oblivious to the tension), this doesn’t look that different.
Danni
jacob’s totally not happy in the relationship
Passchendaele