Who is Billy Pilgrim?
Do they fight evil exes?
Or have questionable holidays celebrating the fact that they didn’t starve to death and thus perpetuating the tradition to eat roast (sometimes smoked) turkey instead of the objectively better fried chicken?
I’m currently re-reading Slaughterhouse Five, this time in Ryan North’s graphic novel adaptation. My understanding of Billy Pilgrim’s time-line jumping is that it was a metaphor for dissociative episodes in PTSD.
I’ve certainly experienced similar “space cadet” obliviousness to surroundings… I think a lot of people have. It’s very common to perceive different things from what others consider obvious. And to utterly fail to see the “obvious” things in front of you. That’s why changing user interfaces for machines give so many people so much trouble.
Whether Charlie has the kind of PTSD that Billy Pilgrim had or not, she seems to perceive and interact with time differently, depending on whether Booster is talking with her or not.
I dunno… being someone myself who has varying perceptions of time, different from those of other people, I really don’t quite understand the scorn and derision that I’ve been picking up from some of the comments, recently. (Not the origin to THIS thread, of course! Just a few others.)
Sure, it can interfere with “functioning” and daily task completion like other people expect one to do. But it’s not always impossible to adapt and work with a winding path like that one.
Sounds like I should re-read slaughterhouse Five, more and more I have temporal discontinuity, where I remember similar experiences from the past, but have no idea where in time I am or was.
Laura
Might be helpful to talk with someone. When that was happening to me more frequently, it was PTSD. Sometimes it is just spaciness or other reasons, though. Either way, it can help to figure it out together with someone.
Laura
Just a thought… (and “someone” is NOT always code for “someone professional”!) Just an idea floating on the wind like a leaf, drifting past, to think of or not, as you like.
Regret
Thanks for caring 🙂
I tend not to ask help, which, you know, just adds to your diagnosis 😛
By my own estimate if I have PTSD it is cPTSD. Yay high school.
Anyway, I still have hope that at some point I will feel safe enough to work on my psychological needs. I remember being skilled at constructive self-reflection. But I’m not that high on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs at the moment.
Laura
I get that! Totally. One step at a time.
Take good care, friend.
If you are in the US or Canada, calling 2-1-1 (United Way resource directory) is always a kind of a low-key, low-pressure way to start navigating nearby social supports. Just a thought… another leaf on the wind… 🙂
So many fellow PTSD survivors among the readership. I have had mine for more than 50 years now. More than 16 schools by the time I was a sophomore in high school, 4 in 8th grade alone. Plus getting shot at, killed in 2001, and a few other things. And untreated PTSD turns into depression, which they couldn’t treat when I got it because it wasn’t even a diagnosis until 20 years later. I hope that you got treated anyway, because my nightmares have devolved into hallucinogenic trips…
Laura
I’m so sorry you are dealing with all this, Opus the Poet.
Don’t know if it might help at all, but I always share these:
PTSD? As in Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder? As in Shell Shock?
Is this a case of one initialism, two meanings, or do you actually mean the result of surviving a harrowing experience and experiencing long-term mental effects from it?
Laura
Hi Sean,
Yes, that is my understanding. Kurt Vonnegut was a prisoner of war during World War Two. My understanding is that Slaughterhouse Five was a metaphorical description of the kinds of post-traumatic dissociation that Vonnegut himself apparently experienced.
Thanks for clarifying!
Anna
Billy Pilgrim (the character l) fought in WW2, became a prisoner of war, and survived the destruction of Dresden. He definitely suffers from PTSD in the novel.
lol this makes me think of that ma3 strip “did i skip a page?!” since something like “oh i already held her hand but she still wasn’t aware of me” does seem something she’d tell booster whether accidentally or semi-bragging (tho I guess based on what we’ve seen so far it’s totally believable that charlie’s used to ppl holding her hand/guiding her with non romantic intentions)
It seemed Booster was going to use her connection with Charlie to force Carla into running through hoops in order to satisfy her sense of psychological control.
Charlie headed that off.
Bootshivers
Their
C.T. Phipps
Typo. My bad.
SeanR
Booster is protecting their delicate sister from the sociopath-in-training that is Carla.
“Prove to me that you’re not a massive, flaming, colon sphincter, who will hurt my sister before I help you get with her” is hardly what I’d call “psychological control”.
Traditionally, this is the role of the brothers and father, to scare the prospective boyfriend into proving his worth, or getting lost, before he breaks their sister.
superglucose
wow this accidental transphobia towards Carla deserves multiple pies to the face
thejeff
Not to mention the bog standard misogyny of the “traditional” role of the man in family gatekeeping access to the women.
C.T. Phipps
Booster being a protective non-binary sibling is fine. But it seems they’re just enjoying playing with Carla’s head and not respecting their sibling’s autonomy.
As a neurodivergent person, I hated when people infantalized me.
Carla is loud and obnoxious but, well, a good person. She saved Ruth’s life.
SeanR
I will grant that Charlie’s obvious neurodivergence does factor into my labeling her as “delicate”, or at least more vulnerable to being taken advantage of, but the duty of a more capable, (of seeing and reading the signs, and of ending the threat), family member is to see to it that no one gets to hurt them. Regardless of their other attributes.
Carla has publicly stated that what matters to Carla is Carla. She’s not a stock, cardboard-cutout of a villain, but no one is. If I were in Booster’s shoes, I’d not want to be the one introducing the two, either, as it could be taken as an endorsement, and I’d certainly not want to endorse Carla.
thejeff
Yeah, I don’t actually have any problem with Booster here. (Or at least not beyond the dumbing expected from any character in this comic.)
It was the praise of that traditional male role that got to me.
SeanR
I was wrong. Carla doesn’t appear to be a sociopath.
Carla certainly appears to be a narcissist.
I’d want neither anywhere near anyone I cared about.
How is it transphobia to not want the studied selfishness that is Carla near a loved-one? She goes out of her way to express that she cares about no one but herself.
Uly
The transphobia comes when you refer to both Booster and Carla as male – Booster as a *brother*, Carla as a *boyfriend*.
Transphobia with a healthy dose of misogyny.
Arillius
While that is a read, it is certainly a very uncompromising read since they didn’t directly state ‘Booster is a brother’. They spoke of general, factually traditional roles associated with brothers and fathers. It’s only misogynistic if they insist that is something women are not allowed to do, which they did not.
Taffy
Well, until the court comes back with a verdict, maybe armchair litigation is a little bit preemptive.
thejeff
Oh no, it’s misogynistic as hell if you’re talking about those traditional roles with any kind of approval. Arguing that anyone in the family, but mostly the men, need to test prospective dates for their female kin, is misogynistic. Women can date who they want and don’t need some to try to scare them off.
The transphobic part is a bit less clear, since it’s not stated directly, but since they’re applying the traditional role of brothers scaring prospective boyfriends to Booster and Carla respectively, the implication is there.
S.R.
Pretty sure “traditionally that’s directed towards the boyfriend” implies “traditionally it’s boys who court girls”, not “Carla is a boy”. Which is true, for some places and some time periods, including the places and time periods where that model of trying to scare off said courtiers is a thing.
thejeff
Combined with casting Booster in the role of “brother” and the general misogyny of the whole concept, I’m not inclined to cut a lot of slack here.
Taffy
That’s silly. Charlie doesn’t seem “delicate” at all.
I mean, I love me an adorkable disaster lesbian romance, but… I don’t think that’s what this is. I don’t know what this is, but…
**continues backing away slowly**
I think they’re just kinda blind and awkward right now more than anything sinister or potentially destructive like with the almost-not-toxic-towards-the-end relationship Billie and Ruth had.
These two are just a little silly with it.
Well it gets a lot weirder and more problematic if you assume as we had every reason to until this strip that we’d seen all their interactions and nothing like what she said had ever happened.
Rose by Any Other Name
Like… even with this strip… they sat near one another without speaking or interacting in any way?
Except that Carla maybe touched her hand once?
Like, if I sit next to someone and bump their hand, it is CREEPY if they then think we’re dating.
I mean, I’m glad Carla’s happy and all, but…
Mturtle7
It gets less creepy, I think, if you imagine that Carla was actually talking AT Charlie, hoping to be acknowledged but never seeing it. That is to say, they WERE meaningfully interacting, but Carla didn’t know that Charlie knew they were doing that, and Charlie didn’t know that Carla didn’t know that Charlie knew they were doing that.
I go into a lot more detail into my headcanons about their interactions in a comment some ways below, which I hope will present a relatively plausible & non-creepy vision of how it all went down!
Mturtle7
Oh, and to be clear: I’m not saying this is a HEALTHY relationship for either of them, just that it’s not as creepy as you say.
Discussion (454) - “The Switch”
Doctor_Who
Maybe Charlie is unstuck in time like Billy Pilgrim.
Would kinda explain a lot about her, actually.
cbwroses
Who is Billy Pilgrim?
Do they fight evil exes?
Or have questionable holidays celebrating the fact that they didn’t starve to death and thus perpetuating the tradition to eat roast (sometimes smoked) turkey instead of the objectively better fried chicken?
Thag Simmons
I assume they’re unstuck in time, or maybe that just happens in the anime adaptation-that’s-actually-a-stealth-sequel.
staszu13
Good one
Laura
That would make sense.
I’m currently re-reading Slaughterhouse Five, this time in Ryan North’s graphic novel adaptation. My understanding of Billy Pilgrim’s time-line jumping is that it was a metaphor for dissociative episodes in PTSD.
I’ve certainly experienced similar “space cadet” obliviousness to surroundings… I think a lot of people have. It’s very common to perceive different things from what others consider obvious. And to utterly fail to see the “obvious” things in front of you. That’s why changing user interfaces for machines give so many people so much trouble.
Whether Charlie has the kind of PTSD that Billy Pilgrim had or not, she seems to perceive and interact with time differently, depending on whether Booster is talking with her or not.
I dunno… being someone myself who has varying perceptions of time, different from those of other people, I really don’t quite understand the scorn and derision that I’ve been picking up from some of the comments, recently. (Not the origin to THIS thread, of course! Just a few others.)
Sure, it can interfere with “functioning” and daily task completion like other people expect one to do. But it’s not always impossible to adapt and work with a winding path like that one.
Regret
Sounds like I should re-read slaughterhouse Five, more and more I have temporal discontinuity, where I remember similar experiences from the past, but have no idea where in time I am or was.
Laura
Might be helpful to talk with someone. When that was happening to me more frequently, it was PTSD. Sometimes it is just spaciness or other reasons, though. Either way, it can help to figure it out together with someone.
Laura
Just a thought… (and “someone” is NOT always code for “someone professional”!) Just an idea floating on the wind like a leaf, drifting past, to think of or not, as you like.
Regret
Thanks for caring 🙂
I tend not to ask help, which, you know, just adds to your diagnosis 😛
By my own estimate if I have PTSD it is cPTSD. Yay high school.
Anyway, I still have hope that at some point I will feel safe enough to work on my psychological needs. I remember being skilled at constructive self-reflection. But I’m not that high on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs at the moment.
Laura
I get that! Totally. One step at a time.
Take good care, friend.
If you are in the US or Canada, calling 2-1-1 (United Way resource directory) is always a kind of a low-key, low-pressure way to start navigating nearby social supports. Just a thought… another leaf on the wind… 🙂
Opus the Poet
So many fellow PTSD survivors among the readership. I have had mine for more than 50 years now. More than 16 schools by the time I was a sophomore in high school, 4 in 8th grade alone. Plus getting shot at, killed in 2001, and a few other things. And untreated PTSD turns into depression, which they couldn’t treat when I got it because it wasn’t even a diagnosis until 20 years later. I hope that you got treated anyway, because my nightmares have devolved into hallucinogenic trips…
Laura
I’m so sorry you are dealing with all this, Opus the Poet.
Don’t know if it might help at all, but I always share these:
• United Way: https://www.211.org/ or call 2-1-1
• Find Help: https://www.findhelp.org/
• Connect IE: https://connectie.org/?lang=en
SeanR
PTSD? As in Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder? As in Shell Shock?
Is this a case of one initialism, two meanings, or do you actually mean the result of surviving a harrowing experience and experiencing long-term mental effects from it?
Laura
Hi Sean,
Yes, that is my understanding. Kurt Vonnegut was a prisoner of war during World War Two. My understanding is that Slaughterhouse Five was a metaphorical description of the kinds of post-traumatic dissociation that Vonnegut himself apparently experienced.
Thanks for clarifying!
Anna
Billy Pilgrim (the character l) fought in WW2, became a prisoner of war, and survived the destruction of Dresden. He definitely suffers from PTSD in the novel.
Formedras
Hope Charlie doesn’t get assassinated at some point. But even if… so it goes.
Laura
“Poo-tee-weet?”
MM
Did canon ever establish a name for Dexter’s home planet? If not, is it Trafalmadore?
hoop
IIRC it was literally called “Alien”
Needfuldoer
Charlie just interacts with the world over a dial-up connection. 5000 ping and occasional disconnects.
Laura
Ah. That explains it. 🙂 (Cue dial-up modem sound…)
Ana Chronistic
is THAT how it works ?
(Charlie seems to live in a happy little reality of her own, I’d like to visit)
milu
Hope you don’t mind seahorses
Mr. Random
I mean… dating doesn’t mean you’re exclusive.
Animedingo
I dont know if there’s a word for what Charlie has
Doctor_Who
The word for what Booster currently has is “migraine”.
SmartAlec105
Yeah, it’s nice to see Booster being the one fucked with this time. Pretty much every character needs someone who pushes their buttons.
Laura
A girlfriend! That’s the word. 😉
RacingTurtle
lol
Proxiehunter
Carla. She has Carla.
Jamie
“90s-style quirkiness”?
DailyBrad
A Switch. It might be Booster’s turn again soon, though.
Librain
Well, I don’t think we have confirmation on what Carla’s preferences are in that regar- oh wait, you’re talking about the game console…
Chasey
Wait.
What?
clif
A switch. It’s what Willis just did.
Tan
Once again the universe bends itself to Carla’s benefit
clif
As is only proper.
JoeCovenant
Just came here to say EXACTLY the same thing!
Grimey
Just gals being pals.
Chaucer59
Love on the spectrum. It’s just as screwed up as love off the spectrum.
Jo_cubstar
Aaaaaaaaaah hahahahaha God Damn it, Willis! Well done messing with us all like that. That was absolutely brilliant ahahahahahaha.
anon
lol this makes me think of that ma3 strip “did i skip a page?!” since something like “oh i already held her hand but she still wasn’t aware of me” does seem something she’d tell booster whether accidentally or semi-bragging (tho I guess based on what we’ve seen so far it’s totally believable that charlie’s used to ppl holding her hand/guiding her with non romantic intentions)
C.T. Phipps
It’s good to see Booster’s evil schemes utterly thwarted.
Rabbit
…What part of their scheme was evil though?
PedanticJerkass
And what part of it was thwarted, for that matter?
(Well, aside from the “evil scheme” of eating a warm lunch, that is.)
C.T. Phipps
It seemed Booster was going to use her connection with Charlie to force Carla into running through hoops in order to satisfy her sense of psychological control.
Charlie headed that off.
Bootshivers
Their
C.T. Phipps
Typo. My bad.
SeanR
Booster is protecting their delicate sister from the sociopath-in-training that is Carla.
“Prove to me that you’re not a massive, flaming, colon sphincter, who will hurt my sister before I help you get with her” is hardly what I’d call “psychological control”.
Traditionally, this is the role of the brothers and father, to scare the prospective boyfriend into proving his worth, or getting lost, before he breaks their sister.
superglucose
wow this accidental transphobia towards Carla deserves multiple pies to the face
thejeff
Not to mention the bog standard misogyny of the “traditional” role of the man in family gatekeeping access to the women.
C.T. Phipps
Booster being a protective non-binary sibling is fine. But it seems they’re just enjoying playing with Carla’s head and not respecting their sibling’s autonomy.
As a neurodivergent person, I hated when people infantalized me.
Carla is loud and obnoxious but, well, a good person. She saved Ruth’s life.
SeanR
I will grant that Charlie’s obvious neurodivergence does factor into my labeling her as “delicate”, or at least more vulnerable to being taken advantage of, but the duty of a more capable, (of seeing and reading the signs, and of ending the threat), family member is to see to it that no one gets to hurt them. Regardless of their other attributes.
Carla has publicly stated that what matters to Carla is Carla. She’s not a stock, cardboard-cutout of a villain, but no one is. If I were in Booster’s shoes, I’d not want to be the one introducing the two, either, as it could be taken as an endorsement, and I’d certainly not want to endorse Carla.
thejeff
Yeah, I don’t actually have any problem with Booster here. (Or at least not beyond the dumbing expected from any character in this comic.)
It was the praise of that traditional male role that got to me.
SeanR
I was wrong. Carla doesn’t appear to be a sociopath.
Carla certainly appears to be a narcissist.
I’d want neither anywhere near anyone I cared about.
How is it transphobia to not want the studied selfishness that is Carla near a loved-one? She goes out of her way to express that she cares about no one but herself.
Uly
The transphobia comes when you refer to both Booster and Carla as male – Booster as a *brother*, Carla as a *boyfriend*.
Transphobia with a healthy dose of misogyny.
Arillius
While that is a read, it is certainly a very uncompromising read since they didn’t directly state ‘Booster is a brother’. They spoke of general, factually traditional roles associated with brothers and fathers. It’s only misogynistic if they insist that is something women are not allowed to do, which they did not.
Taffy
Well, until the court comes back with a verdict, maybe armchair litigation is a little bit preemptive.
thejeff
Oh no, it’s misogynistic as hell if you’re talking about those traditional roles with any kind of approval. Arguing that anyone in the family, but mostly the men, need to test prospective dates for their female kin, is misogynistic. Women can date who they want and don’t need some to try to scare them off.
The transphobic part is a bit less clear, since it’s not stated directly, but since they’re applying the traditional role of brothers scaring prospective boyfriends to Booster and Carla respectively, the implication is there.
S.R.
Pretty sure “traditionally that’s directed towards the boyfriend” implies “traditionally it’s boys who court girls”, not “Carla is a boy”. Which is true, for some places and some time periods, including the places and time periods where that model of trying to scare off said courtiers is a thing.
thejeff
Combined with casting Booster in the role of “brother” and the general misogyny of the whole concept, I’m not inclined to cut a lot of slack here.
Taffy
That’s silly. Charlie doesn’t seem “delicate” at all.
milu
They will have their revenge!!!! Which is best served cold, like these fries
clif
These fries are best served cold? Well maybe with the right salsa.
RassilonTDavros
“Was this part of your plan too, Charlie?”
RassilonTDavros
Anyway Charlie just keeps climbing up my favorite characters list every time she appears.
Rose by Any Other Name
Charlie: “Carla’s my girlfriend.”
Me: **backing away slowly**
I mean, I love me an adorkable disaster lesbian romance, but… I don’t think that’s what this is. I don’t know what this is, but…
**continues backing away slowly**
AlexaSpuds
I think they’re just kinda blind and awkward right now more than anything sinister or potentially destructive like with the almost-not-toxic-towards-the-end relationship Billie and Ruth had.
These two are just a little silly with it.
thejeff
Well it gets a lot weirder and more problematic if you assume as we had every reason to until this strip that we’d seen all their interactions and nothing like what she said had ever happened.
Rose by Any Other Name
Like… even with this strip… they sat near one another without speaking or interacting in any way?
Except that Carla maybe touched her hand once?
Like, if I sit next to someone and bump their hand, it is CREEPY if they then think we’re dating.
I mean, I’m glad Carla’s happy and all, but…
Mturtle7
It gets less creepy, I think, if you imagine that Carla was actually talking AT Charlie, hoping to be acknowledged but never seeing it. That is to say, they WERE meaningfully interacting, but Carla didn’t know that Charlie knew they were doing that, and Charlie didn’t know that Carla didn’t know that Charlie knew they were doing that.
I go into a lot more detail into my headcanons about their interactions in a comment some ways below, which I hope will present a relatively plausible & non-creepy vision of how it all went down!
Mturtle7
Oh, and to be clear: I’m not saying this is a HEALTHY relationship for either of them, just that it’s not as creepy as you say.