320

Snap
Posted on July 24, 2017 by David M Willis

320 thoughts on “Snap”

  1. Doctor_Who

    My comment was going to be that Amber’s reaction in the last panel is actually her realizing she just bit into (insert horrible variety of donut here), but I honestly couldn’t find a common type of donut that is unappetizing.

    1. MM

      They could be stale.

      1. ValdVin

        I submit that a mere stale donut isn’t repuslive enough to give someone that reaction.

        Now if a donut (if biodegradable) was turning colors not intended, owing to rot and time…

        1. N0083rp00F

          More like due to unforeseen internal chemical reactions.
          Sort of like what happens with a Crispy Cream – which is neither – ugh.

    2. LazerWulf

      Maple Glazed. Seriously. They’re the worst.

      1. Reltzik

        Yes.

        Maple-glazed are awful.

        Just… maple.

        Mmmmaple.

        …..

        You’d better give them all to me to dispose of, they’re so awful.

        1. Michael

          I will assist Reltzik with the horrid task of consuming the maple-glazed donuts.
          Because I am so selfless, and would hate to see them had to undertake such a task alone, and not because I think that maple donuts are delicious.

        2. Devilish Nerd

          I shall join in this noble and selfless act of consuming the maple donuts. I’d rather I “suffer” than anyone else. Plus Reltzik and Michael need my help finishing them

        3. Nobody

          I of course will join in nobly sacrificing myself for the greater good and shoulder some of this great burden

        4. Kinoko

          I would also be quite willing to join this noble cause in alleviating some maple-glazed burden.

        5. pumacatrun2

          same

        6. Emperor Daniel

          I, too, volunteer as tribute.

        7. Reltzik

          No! All of you, no! I alone shall do this! There is no reason that more than one person should suffer so!

        8. StClair

          No, no, it’s much too perilous.

        9. Emperor Daniel

          Yes, let us all go in and face the peril together!

        10. Abel Undercity

          You can’t! Too much peril isn’t good for you.

          Now, if the maple glazed can be kindly directed toward this wheelbarrow…

        11. Falling Star

          I am joining the maple consuming brigade as well

        12. N0083rp00F

          We are not alone.
          The Maple Brigade is here eh!
          One of us.
          One of us.
          One of us,

      2. Kamino Neko

        Any artificial maple flavoured thing is disgusting.

        1. Needfuldoer

          A million times yes! Once you’ve had the real stuff, there’s no going back!

        2. Solarn

          To be fair, that’s true of a lot of artificial flavourings.

        3. N0083rp00F

          Flavoring or sweeteners I may add – pure cane or beet sugar and none of that horrid high fructose corn syrup that the states seem to insert into everything. And because it has such a strong weird taste they up the artificial flavorings to try and mask it with varying levels of failure.

        4. Felgraf

          Oh, well, yes, ARTIFICIAL ‘maple syrup’ is just wrong.

        5. Ann Potter

          YES! Thank you for making the point I so desperately wanted to add!

      3. Khyrin

        I mean, it’s not that I find it a BAD taste… there’s just… SO MUCH SWEET…

      4. Charlie Spencer

        I’ll see your Maple Glazed and raise you the additions of coconut and those stale crushed peanuts.

    3. tim gueguen

      Lots of them.

    4. miados

      cream filling as she imagines her mom and joes dad?

    5. Anywhere

      She realized she just bit into a “joe-nut”.

    6. @zombieundergrnd

      The correct answer is glazed. A glazed donut.

    7. Lovely Monsters

      Custard. Anything with custard. It’s like sweetened pus.

    8. Furie

      Apple. In the UK we have apple donuts. It’s like they don’t understand what a donut is meant to be.

      1. SgtWadeyWilson

        Apple in the doughnut, or apple filling?

        …because either way, you can just send them to me here in the US, and you’ll never see them again…

        1. thejeff

          cider doughnuts

        2. SgtWadeyWilson

          *Googles.* Hmm… I’d try those.

    9. Ben

      Krispy Kreme is objectively bad. If you have a place that actually makes donuts fresh, you will never think Krispy Kreme or Dunkin Donuts are anything but bad donuts.

      1. Felgraf

        Fresh Krispy Kreme’s are pretty good, though.
        (Honestly all fresh/hot donuts are pretty fucking delicious)

        1. John

          I’d rather have Dunkin Donuts stone cold than Krispy Kreme piping hot.

          And Dunkin isn’t good doughnuts.

        2. Ed Rhodes

          Where are the Honey Dew fans at?

          (chirrp, chirrp)

          Fine. Screw all of you, them’s good donuts right there!

    10. Pylgrim

      Something something pineapple?

    11. Tormyr Cousland

      When I took a trip to Malaysia with my family, we came across a doughnut stand with all sorts of bright, vibrant colored toppings…and one set that had “chicken floss.” Think fairy floss, the commonwealth version of cotton candy, but tiny, floss-thin shredded bits of dried, salty chicken piled on top of the doughnut. I decided, “This is strange enough that I have to try this!” I managed one bite and thought, “Not great, but I can get through it,”. The second bite came out just like Amber’s and I thought, “Nope.”

      I will just take my winnings for “Worst Doughnut” now. 🙂

  2. butts

    and by “serious” she means “unf unf unf”

    1. Gesc

      They’ve been seriously getting it on.

    2. Doctor_Who

      They’ve been attending raves together?!

      That is serious.

    3. Abel Undercity

      I’m thinking more than the once already on file.

  3. AnvilPro

    Have Joe and Amber ever interacted?

    1. Laladoria

      Outside of Danny’s door when Billie was in it, but other than that nothing stands out.

      1. Laladoria

        In Joe and Danny’s room, I mean. Doing Journalism.

        1. Lingo

          Pro tip, you can combine tags: http://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/joe+amber/

        2. Lingo

          That should have been a reply to AnvilPro.

        3. Charlie Spencer

          I’d wondered how the tags worked. Is that unique to this site, or will it work elsewhere?

        4. Lingo

          Beats me!

        5. JQuire

          The hero we need!

        6. Cephalo the Pod

          Oh WOW. That’s super cool.

        7. Doki

          Dang, I didn’t know that! Thank you for sharing. 😀

        8. Lingo

          Um, you’re all welcome!

      2. poofdepoof

        I found you a link! Not much there. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/line/

        It’s probably just based on his reputation.

        1. barefootbiker

          I imagine she and Danny probably discussed him at least once off-panel. Seems like something that would come up in pillow talk or while walking to class.

    2. ugh

      Joe is Danny’s bestie. Amber was Danny’s girlfriend for a while there. I think it’s safe to say that she knows who he is.

  4. Madock345

    Stacy is the best, forever.

  5. The Aussie Bloke

    That last panel honestly made me cackle. Well done, Willis!

  6. Aoshima

    Aaaaand we see that Amber’s mother is perhaps a little lacking in the brains department.

    I’d thought her “cute” comment was sarcasm, but apparently it’s a legitimate reaction.

    1. MM

      The “you’ve just got low blood sugar” wasn’t a clue? I don’t want to be too hard on her, considering Blaine must’ve done a number on whatever trouble monitoring instincts she may have originally possessed, but…

      1. jeffepp

        There is something to that, though. Many folks that get obsessive sometimes forget to eat, or refuse to leave off whatever, to do so. Then, they become more easily upset, and their thinking becomes less sharp, as their blood sugar levels drop.

        Inducing nausea right after getting her to eat, however, does not improve things.

        1. neeks

          Are you saying that Snickers bars are Amazi-girl’s weakness in the Dumbiverse?

        2. jeffepp

          No, it’s more of a symptom, than a cause. Most people have sense enough to go eat something. Someone like Amber/AG/Berserker, however, tends to skip meals and snacks, which leads to more bad decisions.

        3. StClair

          Don’t be absurd.
          It’s Hostessâ„¢ products.
          It’s always Hostessâ„¢ products.

    2. Lingo

      She was smart enough to leave Blaine … but her taste in men leaves a lot to be desired.

    3. Shiro

      She’s a space case, but she means well.

    4. JetstreamGW

      Or, y’know, maybe she actually thinks it’s funny.

      And, y’know, maybe she did it herself when she was a kid. Since Willis didn’t invent the practice of rating people by attractiveness.

      1. Shade

        You mean Joe, Joe didn’t invent it. Stacy is still a Willis character so that sentence while true, doesn’t make sense in context.

        1. Meta

          got em

      2. Li

        The problem with this interpretation is that Stacy literally has no idea what the list is.

        She wasn’t even paying attention to JOE’S description of it, where he told her flat-out that it’s a mean list and that, IF Amber is on it (note how Joe wasn’t sure, but Stacy is), it means Amber is owed an apology.

        Then Joe expressed distress over the idea of Stacy knowing his dad and tried to give her ALL THE DONUTS IN APOLOGY.

        Stacy heard like every third word Joe said, at best. She’s firmly in fantasy land, where they’re going to all make a happy family unit someday. And in Fantasy Land, Joe’s list was just a bunch of really nice compliments for cute girls; Amber’s entry says “she’s cute as a button and always has a kind word for her friends!”

        1. JQuire

          I mean…Joe’s description of it was not inaccurate.

        2. Li

          I… know that? But Stacy clearly wasn’t paying attention to his description of it.

        3. JetstreamGW

          Secondary interpretation: Stacy doesn’t give a damn.

        4. Li

          Yes I’m aware of your interpretation. You very much want to believe Stacy knows exactly what the list is and doesn’t care because she doesn’t see “rating women” as a problem.

          As I’ve said, the problem with this interpretation is that Stacy has not read any of the list’s entries, and is not describing it in a way consistent with what little she knows about it. (Joe’s sign said it was mean, Joe himself said the women on it are owed apologies — yet Stacy is telling Amber it’s just a list of “how cute he thinks you girls are, and you’re on it!” like that’s a good thing.)

          Stacy not thinking the list is bad isn’t because she’s older and wiser and “knows” the list isn’t “that bad”; it is patently because she wasn’t really listening to Joe, didn’t read jos sign, and doesn’t know what’s on the list.

        5. Meta

          I think you’ve got Stacy seriously wrong here. Just because she doesn’t know how to help Amber doesn’t mean she’s the delusional airhead (I hate this phrase but it seemed like the best summary) you’re describing. Where are you even getting the idea that she’s so unaware of her surroundings? It seems to me that she just has a blind spot when it comes to her daughter.

        6. thejeff

          I’d say it comes from comparing her description of his list this strip to his description of it to her a couple strips back.

        7. Li

          ^

        8. BigDogLittleCat

          Joe doesn’t know who Stacy’s daughter is, so he doesn’t know if her daughter is on it, but he certainly knows Amber is on it, and he’s very much aware that having her of all people on it is all kinds of wrong.

          At the bottom of his “i’m sorry – have a donut” sign is an extra apology to “Beanbag with glasses” and you know that must be Amber.
          She’ll know it too, making her mother’s chirpy fantasy that much more irritating.

        9. thejeff

          As people have been saying since the sign first appeared and as Willis confirmed in a comment, the beanbag isn’t Amber.

          Most likely it’s Other Rachel, who he rated a 3.

        10. BigDogLittleCat

          Ah, I missed that. Thanks for the clarification.
          On the other hand, Amber doesn’t read the comments either, so it’s just as well she didn’t see it.

      3. Meta

        Or maybe she was just trying to set Amber up for the reveal in the last panel by being so exuberant about her partner’s son.

    5. zaratustra

      Stacy probably has a much higher bar for what is deplorable behavior in a man.

      1. Fomalhaut

        Yep, which is…just really disheartening.

        Desparately hoping she doesn’t turn out to be a full-blown enabler or co-abuser.

        1. Lingo

          Southern Fish for the win, dude!

    6. Trolldrool

      I didn’t think it was sarcastic, not exactly anyway. I figured it was just a sort of exasperated way of dismissing the whole thing along the lines of “Boys will be boys.”

      1. thejeff

        Kind of what I thought as well, but this strip shows she thinks it’s not a bad thing.

    7. Ivanka the Terrible

      My interpretation is still that she’s just a horndog and legitimately just sees herself in Joe and thinks he’s got the right relaxed attitude toward college and sexy hijinks. I mean, she’s hooking up with his dad more or less because they happened to be in the same place wanting the same thing, her being sort of the positive-role-model mirror of him makes a certain amount of sense.

      Of course, she’s not going to just _say_ “please go develop some sexy hijinks-related problems instead of budding-serial-killer-problems so I have the slightest clue how to help you with my own experience” outright to her daughter, but shoving her in the direction of potential friends who are in college to have a good time might be Stacy’s attempt at tying to help Amber learn to be less melodramatic about everything all the time.

      That it’s not a particularly good attempt isn’t necessarily surprising, she’s probably been trying to do this for 18 years and is scraping the bottom of the idea-barrel now.

  7. Opus the Poet

    Amber does not look happy about learning that.

    1. JessWitt

      I’m trying to imagine who would be.

      1. inqntrol

        Also the fact that Joe may become her stepsibling adds to the discomfort.

      2. Bickendan

        Not even Joe was happy to learn that, but that’s because he knows his dad.

        1. Jay

          He’d probably be the first to tell her to keep it casual and that his dad would break her heart if it ever got serious. He’s already been through one divorce. He definitely doesn’t want to go through another one.

  8. ValdVin

    “Getting serious with his father?”

    That’s more a bombshell than the Blaine-llucination yesterday.

    1. Dave

      …and yet, I can safely say Richard must be a step up from Blaine…
      then again, when you’re at rock bottom…

  9. Reltzik

    ……..

    ….. so Stacy’s getting serious with Richard because of blood sugar?

    1. zoelogical

      she’s finally getting some sugar *fingerguns*

  10. miados

    I am sort of enjoying stacy as a character so far. caring but a bit oblivious.

    1. butting

      Her form of caring has long struck me as just playing the role and not being involved any deeper than that.

      (granted: I’m possibly reading some real-life situations I’ve seen into that.)

      1. miados

        well we havent seen much of her or her past connections to her daughter (unlike more than a couple of other parents from characters)

  11. Spencer

    I wonder if there’s a double meaning to Amber saying “me” in this context.

    1. Gesc

      Rather than referring to an alter, I think Amber is saying “me of all people”.

  12. Phil Dog

    Damn. Shame she already used up that “get out of jail for stabbing a guy” card. Should have used it on Joe’s dad.

  13. Dan

    That was a bigger shock to my system then that car that hit me a week ago.

    1. JessWitt

      Really, you were hit by a car? Are you feeling alright?

      1. Solenoid

        I think Dan’s narrating Amber’s train of thought there.

        1. JessWitt

          Can’t believe that was a week ago in comic time.

    2. neeks

      Technically SHE hit the car.

  14. zoelogical

    oh my gooooooooooood stacy

    hahahahaah i am so here for this

  15. Gesc

    And she’s the better parent of the two.

    Poor Amber.

    1. Fomalhaut

      Yeah, like…jesus, this is a guy who was hitting on a 20-something coed roughly fifteen minutes before meeting her.

      Come on, Stacy, pattern recognition!

  16. Keulan

    That poor donut deserved a better fate than this.

    1. Wack'd

      The same is true of damn near everyone in this comic.

  17. Passchendaele

    well now, it’s not stacy’s mom that’s got it going on. :p

    *flees before the mob arrives*

    1. Passchendaele

      Also, kudos to whomever guessed this (BBCC, I think? my memory sucks, so I dunno.)

      1. Passchendaele

        oh, wait, it was shiro. sorry, I sometimes confuse you two. ‹.‹

    2. John

      I dunno, maybe she does. We haven’t seen Grandma Brannon.

  18. DailyBrad

    I mean, it’d be awesome if Richard turned over a new leaf and he’s going to be faithful, but I can’t imagine that’s terribly likely.

    I do find it kinda funny Amber already knows about the list, but she would probably be on top of stuff like that, yeah.

    1. Lingo

      Well (1) Amber probably already knew about Joe’s list because Joe talked about it all the time, and she hung out with Danny a lot, and (2) even if she didn’t, she could just guess who it was from what her mom said.

    2. Cass

      It could be a mutually open relationship. Considering that the extent of flirtation leading into their hookup can literally be boiled down to “We’re both divorced? Let’s fuck.” I can see her being as much into sowing her wild oats now that she’s free of Blaine as Richard is.

      1. Halpful

        no. if it was other characters sure, but with stacy and joe’s dad, no. he’s the sort of guy to use “open relationship” as a convenient lie to cover up cheating. 😛 (which is really annoying when you’re looking for an *actual* open relationship with honesty and communication)

    3. Sam

      Joe literally mentioned the list to Amber’s face, so of course she knows about it. She is the one he told about his ranking of Billie.

    4. EnerPrime

      Do we actually know (as in on-panel or word of Willis) that Richard was the wrongdoer in the divorce though? That’s not to say I don’t totally believe he would cheat, but I don’t recall if we’ve ever seen Joe’s mom. That means there’s a non-zero chance that Richard is the better parent between them, which is not a happy thought.

      1. thejeff

        We’ve got Joe’s comment when Richard was hitting on Sarah: “I wish I could say he was like this only after the divorce.”
        Not explicit, but strongly implied he was cheating beforehand.

    5. Ivanka the Terrible

      I’m still voting for Stacy just being the distaff counterpart of the Joe Continuum. She probably was pretty sexually impulsive as a college student herself– look who she ended up with despite all the red flags, after all. And that experience probably hasn’t enamored her to monogamy.

      It’ll be interesting to find out what she means by “getting serious”, because with what we’ve seen of her (admittedly, very little) it could easily just mean “slept together more than once” and she might be ‘serious’ in her relative evaluation with any number of guys.

      1. thejeff

        “What we’ve seen of her” = “hooked up with Richard”. I mean, that’s pretty much all we’ve seen of her and people are trying to build that into some massive horndog backstory.
        Hell, she’s trying to spin that into a serious relationship, which we know damn well it isn’t – since we know what Richard’s like. That actually suggests to me she isn’t, and probably wasn’t, the “sexually impulsive” preson you’re claiming – someone who was would be okay with casual sex with Richard and wouldn’t be pretending it was something more serious.

  19. Reltzik

    But seriously, “most of your problems are caused by low blood sugar”, as Amber stares in a funk at the sight where she was attacked by a knife-wielding rapist and put him into a hospital?

    4REALZ?

    NO, Stacy. NO. Just… no. NO.

    1. Joyous ☿

      I knowwwww…. She’s so oblivious it’s almost funny

    2. Ivanka the Terrible

      In fairness, how do _you_ deal with a situation where you’re legally, morally, and emotionally obligated to help and protect someone who’s gone through a traumatic event which you have no real way to contextualize or in any way evaluate the issue to begin with?

      Because resorting to distracting or entertaining them to lift their spirits is the solution a lot of people come up with… including some actual therapists. It feels like you’re faulting the woman for not having somehow picked up a medical degree and license to practice in the… what, three in-setting days since the comic started? Bit unfair there.

      1. thejeff

        You don’t trivialize it, to start with. If you can’t handle it yourself (and you probably can’t), you get her professional help.

        To be fair to her, she’s also Blaine’s victim and likely hasn’t done better taking care of herself than of her daughter.

  20. Cyrus

    I think Willis has been spying on my mother and I. This is way too real.

    1. Miri

      Can’t be me and my mum coz she hasn’t segued seamlessly from ‘here, eat a doughnut’ to ‘you need to eat more healthily, so much sugar is really bad for you, and di you know what the fat content is like in a doughnut?!’…

      1. neeks

        My mom got mad at me for frivolous spending and then asked if I wanted to go to the mall with her.

  21. Tandel

    Amber just cannot catch a break on the (potential) sibling front, ever.

    1. Jon Rich

      I forgot all about Faz.

    2. Jay

      At least Joe has boundaries that he won’t cross. I think that step-siblings, especially ones that Danny is (kind of, sort of still) dating, would be a line he wouldn’t cross. I’m not sure Faz has any such barriers.

  22. Halpful

    I made the exact same face. 😛
    Goddamnit Stacy. You have no fucking clue about her problems. Partly because she can’t *tell* you, though. But I wouldn’t exactly trust you with them after today’s comic.

    I just wish amber could tell *someone*.

  23. Cattleprod

    Stacy believes the best way to move past an awful event is to focus on a new awful event. Your mother setting you up for a vicarious three way with her boyfriend’s past self would qualify.

  24. Puckish Rogue

    That last panel is unexpected and just so funny but no wonder she likes Joe

  25. Rukduk

    Now, was this entire strip just Stacy getting ready for maximum shock value, or was she serious about the nice part?
    …
    Also, glad to be back. Just finished up a long road trip to get to a family reunion. Which is probably going to go just as usual. Awkward. Awful. And a crime against family values. Oh well. I just got caught up and holy shit this storyline is already punching me in the gut. Anyways, if I don’t pop up in the comments for a while, it’s because I’m trying to avoid emotional crucifiction and or have been dragged onto a camping trip.

    1. StClair

      Sympathies, and good luck getting through it.

      1. Rukduk

        The promblem is, one on one, my family is really likeable and agreeable, but put more than three of us in a room on we go at it like wet cats.

    2. Leorale

      Good luck! If it’s camping, I hope you can enjoy lots of s’mores and/or solitary hiking.

      1. Rukduk

        Honestly, if it’s camping I’m just gonna pray that my step-uncle Dave doesn’t accidentally shoot me while he’s high. *sigh* That’s rural Michigan for you. On the bright side though, I will be able to finally lay my hands on some good old Tim Horton’s after three years without. Oh, how I’ve missed your coffee and donuts Timmy’s. Starbucks just can’t compare.

    3. Halpful

      good luck! :/ I’m sure Captain Awkward has a few posts on that subject.

  26. JessWitt

    Oh Stacy, you meant well.

    1. JessWitt

      But oh gods, Joe and Amber, future stepsiblings?

      1. MM

        And of course Danny will be at the wedding…

        1. JessWitt

          The awkwardness is rising.

        2. butting

          And by “awkwardness” you mean “all the food we’ve ever eaten ever”

          I am so with Amber, though really she should’ve aimed for Stacy’s shoes rather’n the reflexive niceness-instinct of catching the food she realised she didn’t really want to swallow so much.

  27. Stephen Bierce

    *plays Aerosmith’s “Mama Kin” on the hacked Muzak*

  28. Adam Black

    Good for Stacy. Shes an adult.

  29. Some Random Name

    I don’t know if having sex in a supply closet that was labelled from the inside for something reason counts as getting serious.

    1. Nicole

      Okay so I’ve seen the “they got it on in a supply closet” thing a few times but is that just assumed or did we get confirmation in the comic? Because when I look at the tags for Stacy and Richard–both together and individually–I do not see any explicit indication. Am I forgetting something?

      1. Madock345

        I think it might have been a slipshine

      2. NubeTrasnochada

        I think there may be a Slipshine of the event, but I’m not sure.

        1. ellernock

          Can confirm that it was a Slipshine.

  30. Derek

    methinks Stacy’s past abusive relationship has impaired her ability to see other red flags of behavior like the shutting down Amber is doing

    1. MatthewTheLucky

      Or worse, she has a type.

    2. zoelogical

      yeah, that

    3. Shiro

      Or having been abused makes literally any guy who’s NOT abusive seem wonderful by comparison

    4. Jago

      It might not be wrong, but it sounds really mean.

  31. Queen Anthai

    Stacy isn’t…very good at this, huh?

    1. Puckish Rogue

      At getting laid? Seems to be doing all right to me

    2. Fart Captor

      I mean, Amber doesn’t seem to be thinking about what happened with Ryan anymore, so it’s not all bad…

    3. Leorale

      Who would be good at this? It’s not like she’s a counselor or anything, and there’s a whole lot of trauma up in here. The donut was a good idea.

      1. Trolldrool

        Telling her daughter she’s been banging the dad of the local pervert, might not have been the best idea though.

        1. Ivanka the Terrible

          Don’t have a lot of family yourself, then? The goal of what she’s doing here isn’t to magically fix all of serial-killer-girl’s mental issues, it’s to be there for her as emotional support and to distract her from her immediate problems.

          Seems to be working fairly well on both counts.

        2. Spencer

          Can you maybe not refer to Amber as “serial killer girl”?

        3. Fart Captor

          Yeah, especially not over and over again?

  32. Ryek Hvek

    If mention of the word “blood” didn’t send Amber into code red, then maybe she is finally recovering.

  33. Gojira

    Why do you catch your vomit in your hands? yuck.

    1. Fart Captor

      I don’t think it counts as vomit if you haven’t even swallowed it yet. This’d be more of a spit take

      1. StClair

        wet chewed-up donut chunks.
        slightly better.

      2. Kamino Neko

        Yeah, I’ve done this a couple times…usually when my meal (almost always rice, oddly) tries to choke me, or when a sneeze hits me when I have a mouthful of food (again, common with rice…maybe it’s just that I eat more rice than average…). It’s a bit on the gross side, but it’s less bad than the mess you’d have to clean up, otherwise.

        1. Halpful

          my esophagus used to do that to me regularly, but as usual, doctors couldn’t find anything wrong…. I’m actually tapering off my antacids right now and trying to be really mindful of my poor stomach, I’m pretty sure it’s a combination of stress/anxiety induced muscle tension and hurried eating.

          it does seem to happen much more easily with sticky foods. pasta, rice etc.

      3. butting

        Dumping the handful on Joe’s desk could do wonders for helping him understand things.

        1. Gojira

          No it wouldn’t. Bringing hardship on others will never make them see how they hurt others.

        2. butting

          He’s just been squicked out by Stacy himself. Having something to clean up (which is the whole point of him even being there) is IMO (a) no bad thing and (b) adds a tangible dimension which gives him the opportunity to realise how many levels his wrongness is wrong on.

          And if he’s trying to own his shit (which, let’s hope) then: he needs to learn to own all the outcomes. Someone not even being able to get his apology down (let alone stomach it) and leaving it splat in front of him… is an outcome (especially as it’s through Stacy’s validation of what he’s trying to leave behind), and he needs to own that.

          (and if he connects Amber with Ryan and gets his own feelings of revulsion about it, so much the better.)

          Not saying any of this to be heartless. And hey, someone fetching him paper towels to clean up with would be beaut. But: it’s a legit reaction to him, limiting what Amber’s (especially Amber’s) valid reactions to him is a Bad Thing, and learning that saying sorry can literally be messy is a Good Thing.

        3. Jago

          Nice metaphor, but it IS pretty rude.
          And I agree, bringing others hardships doesn’t really help them see how they hurt others. Aka, hurting others because they hurt you might help YOU, but not the person you’re doing it to, obviously.
          If Amber needs to do this right now – hey, why not. You do you.
          But saying it’s somehow gonna “help” Joe is not correct. And not right either.

        4. Trolldrool

          Even if it’s justified, bringing others hardship could just as easily make them decide to retreat back into their old toxic behaviour and decide it’s not their fault. It’s everyone else who overreacts about everything and make demands for THEM to change instead of growing some thicker skin. Change, unfortunately, cannot be rushed. Especially when it’s about people rethinking decades of harmful cultural influences that have shaped their own identity up until this point.

        5. butting

          Hopefully we don’t accidentally orobourous here, but it’s the “bringing others hardship” that I’m trying to object to.

          The change we’re seeing here (and I’m BLOODY welcoming it, don’t get me wrong on that) is… kinda light and fluffy. Which is sweet. But what he’s been up to isn’t light and fluffy, and he’d been called out for it repeatedly before it went public on him.

          The main gist of what I’ve been aiming for (and letting get submerged somewhat under the squick) (though I’m having trouble seeing a college student squicking at half-eaten food) is that: apologies aren’t light and fluffy either, and likewise the responses. None of the women he’s targeted owe him light and fluffy.

          My reasoning here is: unless there’s a need in place for the responses to be limited in some way, then imposing limits is dangerous. There’s times for those limits of course (see: Rachel v Ruth), but I’m struggling to see how Joe is someone who needs protecting here. There’s nothing that makes grossed-out responses to his behaviour (yes, specifically in the face of his first-steps apology) a reason to put a limit on the behaviour of those he’s hurt. Or for anyone else to have to hew to his timetable. (which is also interesting to compare with Rachel v Ruth: it’s a valid point, but in the context of someone recovering from suicidal depression then… sorry, Rachel, that’s a case where yer indignation gets to wait for a while.)

          To me, having to clean up a handful of half-eaten food doesn’t come near needing to be ref-tweeted as crossing reasonable limits in this situation. He doesn’t (and shouldn’t) control how his apology gets taken, and the wider the range of responses he has to deal with (and learn to deal with) the better, surely?

    2. Emperor Daniel

      So she can eat it again, obviously.

      (this is an It’s Walky! reference, I hope Amber doesn’t eat it again)

  34. Joe Moose

    That kind of admission can put anyone off their appetite.

  35. Shiro

    I’VE NEVER BEEN SO UNHAPPY TO BE RIGHT :C

    Last panel aside, though, this comic is kinda precious. Mom-daughter interaction is my favorite.

  36. Larkle

    It’s already awkward.

  37. Tenchan

    That was my reaction too Amber…

  38. Danni

    have stacy and richard discussed safe words?

  39. Pl0x

    Urrrrgh. Goddammit Stacy. She DOES have horrible taste in partners. And she’s so easily manipulated. But also god damn Joe’s dad because he is a manipulative POS.

    1. Wack'd

      I’m trying that difficult to square with Willis’ claim that Joe’s dad is basically Roomies! era Joe, frankly. I think Stacy is just a soft touch.

  40. Black

    Hey, Willis, do you realize that not all parents are shitty? You ARE aware that there are good parents out there, right?

    I wouldn’t think I’d need to ask, but with every parent in your comic being either terrible or useless, I’m starting to think you are not aware of these facts.

    1. Solenoid

      The Keeners seem alright.

    2. Cerberus

      Dorothy’s, Sierra’s, Dina’s, Hank, Carla’s, Mike’s (debatable).

      1. Wack'd

        Mike’s folks are huge enablers. Cause and effect on that is a little shaky–are they good parents who wound up with a shitty kid, or did their parenting specifically make Mike who he is today? Regardless, they’re doing a bad job at parenting the person Mike is today.

        1. Trolldrool

          Parents aren’t the only ones who contribute to a person’s upbringing. We’re affected by everything around us. Most of the shitty things I’ve believed, I learned from my peers. People my own age. Especially when I went through my teens and my brain (which wasn’t as clever as I thought it was) decided that parents suck and it’s other teenagers who really know how the world works. Which I’m sure was in no small part because I felt I could relate more to them than my parents. The point I’m trying to make is that there is only so much parents can do without giving their children no free reign and controlling everything and everyone they interact with.

    3. JetstreamGW

      Uhh, Hank? Hank is neither terrible nor useless.

      And really? A lot of y’all are being really uncharitable to Stacy here.

      And yeah, what’s wrong with Danny’s parents?

      And Dina’s parents!

      1. Shiro

        Danny’s parents are absolutely awful to him.

        1. Jason

          Oh yeah. Ohhh yeah. If we take the glimpses we’ve seen of different parents to be the norm there’s emotional abuse aplenty there.
          Also remember Danny telling Amber (or was it AG?) that he’s used to people calling him things like “a piece of shit” in a way that implied it was people close to him? Probably his family? Kind of backed up by the way they acted as though his only worth was in his relationships.

          But yeah, there’s been decent parents, they just generally haven’t been in the spotlight.
          As for Stacy, I’ll agree with what someone else said- well-meaning but oblivious. Also very likely in the process of finding herself after an abusive relationship. (That’s not an instant thing.)

        2. ValdVin

          I don’t know if this comes up in “bad parenting, passive mode” but:

          The one interaction I remember of Danny with his parents is “This one (Dorothy) is going places; you should hold on to her!”

          Yes, Dorothy is. Yes, she’s well-put-together intellectually and emotionally, and kind, pretty, and smart, and ambitious but not “it’s gonna ruin her” level. Yes, most of us who went to college knew students like this (gender regardless) who certainly would be considered a “catch”. (Disclaimer: I probably didn’t make that impression on people!)

          But getting a bf or gf at ~15 and then planning the whole life together? This is the kind of thing a teen has no perspective on and the Wilcoxes should have been waaay smarter about.

          I don’t know what kind of living vicariously they wish to do thru their kid. I don’t even know if Danny’s an only child (never saw otherwise). But that’s just weird for a couple at ~40 to tell their college-bound child.

        3. FLUFFYWOLF

          Basically, Danny’s parents couldn’t give less of a shit about him.

      2. Fomalhaut

        “Hank is neither terrible nor useless.”

        Hank is not as much of a bigot as his wife, and is getting *better*, but is nowhere near acceptable yet and still agreed with and enabled some fucked up stuff in the past.

    4. Fart Captor

      There’s very little reason for the good parents to be involved in the plot. Good parenting tends not to involve much drama

      1. Jon Rich

        This. We assume that Dina’s and Dorothy’s parents are good, but while we have some real evidence for the Keeners—namely, that they wanted Dorothy to make her own decision about religion, and supported her, all we really know about the Saruyamas are that they are quiet. I’m going to guess that they’re decent parents, it’s just that we haven’t seen them much, and, well, parents standing quietly isn’t really interesting for more than a strip or two.

        In fact, I’d go so far as to say that the more screen time a parent has in this comic, the more likely they are to be terrible people, and the worse that parent is. The two most commonly-seen parents, if I remember correctly, are Ross (Toedad) and Blaine, and I’m pretty sure they’re the worst ones here. Ethan’s mother is pretty terrible to him, too, and Clint (Ruth’s grandfather) is even worse, and might even beat out Blaine, but Toedad set the bar so low that I’d be stunned if someone managed to be even worse than him.

        Interestingly, while we know that Billie’s parents’ absence in the comic is actually an indicator that they are bad parents, I think that Sarah’s parents aren’t even *mentioned* anywhere. I’m not sure, but I think the same might be true for the parents of Robin, Roz, and Riley, which is really interesting because I don’t think there are any other three characters who are siblings.

        1. Wack'd

          The DeSanto matriarch and her second husband have been mentioned a few times! Roz takes issue with how many siblings her mom thrust onto her, but beyond that it’s been a case of “no news is good news.” Stepdad seems to be just kind of an embarrassing dork at worst.

        2. Nightsbridge

          Depends on how much from Its Walky her parental situation got transferred over.

        3. Drs

          Dina’s parents gave her money for a date with her new girlfriend.

        4. Emperor Daniel

          They also apologized for letting Blaine into the dorm room.

        5. Jason

          Not disagreeing with any of the rest of your post but I think we’ve seen the most of the Browns. There’s been two story arcs where they featured extremely prominently and we’ve seen enough of them for them to have their own character development instead of just being part of the development of other characters- something I don’t think can be said of any other parent.

        6. jy3

          “but Toedad set the bar so low that I’d be stunned if someone managed to be even worse than him.”
          DON’T SAY THAT

    5. zoelogical

      eh. i wouldn’t say stacy is being terrible here. she’s just being a person with her own life and perspectives that don’t really allow her to understand how her daughter has been victimized and where she’s coming from

      she’s not a great mom, here, but she’s also not a terrible one. she’s just – out of touch, and a lot of that out-of-touchness was unfortunately for her own protection. the more she could not live in the reality where her husband was an abusive asshole the safer it was for her emotional sanity.

      like she is clearly being harmful here, but the harm she takes isn’t physical violence, and that’s why it’s not physical violence. because she was able to put it down to things like low blood sugar and minimize what was happening. because that’s literally the only way to put a positive spin on things, and sometimes that positive spin is what makes life bearable.

      it’d be great if she could, like, be supermom and super supportive and also super prescient of where her daughter is, but….she’s just a person. a person who was abused for a really long time. a person who somehow managed to never lash out at her daughter out of her own pain. a person who has been through unbelievable stresses and traumas and come out with the ability to smile.

      idk she’s just one messed up person who has probably found being wrong about things to be occasionally useful in getting shit done

      1. Lena

        Stuff like Stacy’s behaviour does as much damage as physical violence does. She’s a shitty mom with not an ounce of self-awareness. A history of abuse might explain it, but she’s still being a shitty mom and not the person Amber needs.

        1. Jason

          A parent can be abusive without ever knowing it, and while being well intentioned- or as a result of their own coping mechanisms. I’m not saying that’s the case here but intent doesn’t diminish the impact of behaviour.
          That said… I’m still hanging back before I form a real opinion. It’s a difficulty of the strip a day model, in how much we form opinions before we can see a full picture. Right now I want to see more before I can say more than “she could be handling this a lot better” about Stacy.

        2. zoelogical

          i mean like…yes and no.

          she’s still here to support her daughter, even if she doesn’t know how to do it. it means a lot. it’s a hell of a lot better than nothing. i can’t even begin to imagine how hard this would be to do alone.

          this isn’t emotional abuse. this isn’t verbal abuse. this is someone being really freaking oblivious. this is someone who cannot handle what her daughter is capable of still trying to be there for her daughter in whatever limited capacity she can. idk that’s what i see

    6. Trolldrool

      The parents who have had little to no screentime have all been decent.

  41. Cerberus

    Comic Reactions:

    Welp, I was absolutely wrong on my interpretation of her line with Joe. I guess I was being way too charitable.

    Though I do want to say this. Amber’s mom is trying and yes that matters a lot. She clearly deeply cares about her daughter and is willing to take great risks to her life and health to protect her and is definitely taking a lot of her time to try and be there and present for her while she’s stuck in this really bad headspace.

    But man does her execution suck. And it’s really interfering with her goals of being there for her daughter.

    Panel 1: Like, this is a great picture of the duality of Stacy’s attempt. She got a donut, likely of the type she knows Amber likes and is immediately back to her side. All of this is A+ parenting.

    But on the flipside, she’s also telling Amber to snap out of what is an intense episode of PTSD as if Amber’s freeze response is similar to someone daydreaming or something.

    And it makes it very clear that Stacy likely has tried to be “present mom” and has done little to try and get Amber any professional trauma care or therapy or even that she really understands in any way that that is what Amber is struggling with.

    And there’s a lot of potential reasons for that. Different experiences with PTSD, etc… but it definitely means she’s coming across as diminishing what she’s going through even though that is likely not at all Stacy’s intention.

    Panel 2: And that gets double downed into bad territory here. Like, yes, blood sugar can affect mood and it can be difficult for a person to take care of basic needs when they are in a bad headspace. But Stacy takes that nugget of a good intention and misses the mark in the execution, implying that Amber’s massive mental health issues including a dissociative disorder, PTSD, panic attacks, depression, etc… is just a matter of not eating regularly.

    And I can definitely see it as a matter of Stacy not fully being aware of her own PTSD and coping strategies. Like, if she’s a stress eater, she may just assume that the coping feelings she gets from grabbing some food is actually a sign that she was hungry or low on blood sugar. Especially if she’s wanting to feel healed and free of the man who terrorized her for so long. Or even her not having PTSD at all (some people get lucky coming out of a traumatic experience).

    Again, the intentions are so very good, but she just doesn’t know how to turn those intentions into actions that don’t contain these little unintended barbs for her insecurities to latch on to.

    1. Halpful

      yup. I don’t hate stacy, I just… she is not what amber needs right now. although she probably *is* better than nothing? slightly?

      other things that tend to be dismissed as “daydreaming” in girls:
      *aspergers
      *ADD
      I’m sure others could add more to that list.

      and, like, some of my long-suppressed rage at people who refused to believe I was struggling is leaking through, here. I wish I could go up to them and yell at them about how fucking wrong they were. The closest I ever got was cheerfully telling a teacher that I had no idea how I’d passed the test because I was just writing BS (totally true, that test was the moment I suddenly unlocked the ability to write things that I didn’t believe or that didn’t make sense). It was an attempt to defend the many students who had failed that test, and of course he didn’t believe a word of it (and was probably shocked to hear such language from such a nice girl). I’m still not sure what that class was actually intended to teach.

      I’m so… not quite angry, but, frustrated. frustrated and lost, not knowing how to explain how I feel, not knowing how to communicate the parts that I don’t even remember myself half the time… afraid of scaring people off, or of them misinterpreting in scary ways, scared of their good intentions and fucking terrified of the people who think they know “what’s best” for me. (thankfully such people don’t have any power over me at the moment, and hopefully never will.)

      like, if I can’t *tell* people what’s wrong, then of course they can’t understand. but one of the problems is not being able to communicate the problems. how do I explain how much energy I put into so many tiny things that other people Just Do? how desperately I seem to end up hating any routine? how hard it can be just to wear clothes, to exist in this body? the torture of having hair? ha, that last one I don’t even know how to hint at, even here. or… do I? :/ so, uh, another opinion on this is that there’s a split, and on one side there’s agony and inability to describe it, whereas on the other side there’s ability, and maybe less agony, but that other side doesn’t perform on command. like, it just… there’s a blind spot there, but it *can’t* come out if there’s pressure for it to come out, either from me or from outside. and that’s one of the things that baffles other people, that there are times that I can do these things, and they point to those and go “see, you can do this” and I can’t tell them “no, that wasn’t me”, can’t even think it because the part of me getting that crap from them doesn’t know it, can’t think well, can’t describe things. and anyways they’d just think I was crazy, right? 😛

      yeah, I really hope my therapist turns out to be enough of a safe person to discuss this with her.

      and there’s still a strange flash of rage at the thought of being expected to shove that side of me out, or trick her into coming out… anything that puts performance ahead of… my feelings? or something? she’s not interested in being a cog in someone’s machine 😛 she is not damane.

      1. Southern Belle

        First, I’m so sorry for all that you’re dealing with. I hope your therapist turns out to be safe and to be helpful for you. <3

        Second… thank you for writing all that. It actually helps fit a lot of pieces of stuff from my fiance together for me. She struggles with a lot of things similar to what you described, including the inability to really talk about most of it. I've watched her so many times try to explain, and just… get angry and sad and frustrated and quit, because she *couldn't*. The words just wouldn't come. Words have always been easy for me, so that's a hard thing to see and fully empathize with. So no matter how much I feel like I understand what's going on with her, it helps to see things from others' perspectives.

        1. Halpful

          🙂

      2. emusam

        Amber’s not thinking about Blaine any more, so Stacy’s better than no one in that respect.

      3. Cerberus

        *supportive hug* for dealing with all that and echoing the hope that your therapist is good and helpful. And yeah, there are a lot of feelings when the support network is not exactly terrible but is very much not what you need.

        1. Halpful

          *hugs*

      4. Ivanka the Terrible

        In fairness, what Amber needs is a shitload of drugs, most urgently enough antipsychotics to sink a ferry, and professional help from an actual expert capable of prescribing said drugs.

        I guess we don’t know what Stacy does for a living so she technically _could_ be a clinical psychiatrist specializing in juvenile delinquents… but that seems unlikely, so probably staying available and distracting her daughter out of her reveries is all she really _can_ do.

        1. thejeff

          I’m pretty sure antipsychotics aren’t the solution to Amber’s problems. Professional help certainly is the place to start.

          What Stacy could have done, long ago, is get her daughter that professional help, even if she couldn’t provide it herself – at least once she’d gotten free from Blaine and could reasonably do so.

        2. Halpful

          coincidentally, I read something today that suggests she really should stay *away* from antipsychotics.

          “We have seen a number of cases where patients with primary depersonalisation had been previously misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and started on antipsychotic medications, which had invariably worsened their symptoms.”

          depersonalization disorder isn’t what Amber has, but it sounds like it’s on the dissociative spectrum (or related to anxiety, which amber has shown plenty of too), so it’s close enough I’d want to be extra careful there.

      5. zoelogical

        -hugs-

  42. Cerberus

    Panel 3: Ugh… So yeah, everyone, you were right and I was absolutely dead wrong on this one. And it’s a massive misreading of the social situation, but one that makes sense when you realize that she found Joe’s dad’s aggressive flirting charming and arousing. And it’s a massively charitable way to read what Joe admitted his list was, which was an ode to his boner feels that includes every single woman on campus.

    So why does she read it in this way? Well, there’s a lot of reasons. Distorted view of compliments after being honeymoon phased and abusive phased and gaslit for so many years, different generation selling a different model of men-women interactions and encouraging women to see actively creepy behavior as charming and flirty, etc…

    And that last point is one that is very likely. There is a large social pressure to interpret boundary-pushing and creeper behavior as innocuous, boys being boys, etc… and to minimize the actions and see them in the most charitable light possible and that pressure was far greater in times past.

    And for someone like Stacy who has survived hell, someone like Joe or his dad probably do seem relatively “cute” in comparison.

    Panels 4-5: Oof, these panels are rough. Stacy thirsting here, seeing the aspects of her boyfriend in his son and displacing on them, encouraging her daughter to overlook her boundaries and creep senses… It’s heartbreaking and even more so as its breaking through the thin line holding mother and daughter together and ensuring a potential fight as this bit of information here is literally making Amber sick to her stomach.

    Having parents who were both unhelpful about mental health stuff and also not willing to try, I really love how hard Stacy is trying, which just makes it all the more tragic that she’s so bad at it.

    I hope this resolves itself with the minimum amount of collateral.

    1. Wraithy2773

      …I’m reading more “I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO HANDLE THIS HOLY CRAP” from Stacey than anything, honestly. It’s a bit of an extension of that old saw “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail”.

      Or, in this case: If you have no idea what tool is right for the job, you grab onto the first tool that comes to mind and start hammering the shit out with it…

      1. Reltzik

        It seems more like denial to me. The challenge is overwhelming, so pretend it’s not there or minimize it into something far smaller than it is.

        1. Cerberus

          Very well could be, especially as I’m betting Blaine liked to blame her for everything and anything, just like he did to Amber, so she could easily be carrying a lot of misplaced guilt for any PTSD stuff Amber is carrying, which would incentivize pretending it isn’t there to avoid being crippled by the trained guilt response.

        2. butting

          Trained guilt response, and socialised aren’t-guys-cute-when-they-notice-us response.

          Yup.

    2. Anowan

      Oh what oh what oh what oh what

      Is Stacy trying to compliment a guy in front of her daughter because she thinks… Slashing a stalker rapist is unfeminine behavior ?

      …
      …
      No, it can’t be that bad. Maybe she has a sense of the broken relationships with men in general the experiences they lived with Blaine can do.

      Maybe she wants Amber to find herself a nice “fixer”. Like, enough water, enough sugar, a huge guy at her side, and her baby daughter won’t have to stab dudes anymore and she can relax and stop wondering if her baby daughter is gonna end up in prison or in a hospital.

      It’s obviously a (dangerous) fantasy but I can’t be mad at her. Not right now.

      Maybe if I was a friend of the family for years, I could yell at this mom “get Amber therapy” and be with her as she breaks up in tears and answers “no, I can’t, I want her to have a normal life, this isn’t fair, this isn’t her fault, this isn’t mine, can’t you see how unfair this is ?”

      TLDR : obvious coping is obvious and I have no idea how I would react to it in real life.

      1. BenRG

        From Richard and Stacy’s flirting back at the parents & families evening, I got the impression that Stacy was a bit boy-crazy in her college years. Maybe she thinks that Amber should be more like her (flirting and enjoying herself with multiple partners).

        1. Jason

          You’re not the first to say that you got that impression of Stacy in college and for the life of me I can’t understand WHY. After getting out of an abusive relationship she goes off and has sex with ONE man that we’ve seen who makes her feel sexy. That doesn’t imply that she has sex a lot, and it definitely doesn’t imply anything about her college years.

          …Unless this is expanded on in the Slipshine, but in the core comic I’m seeing nothing that makes me agree with that idea.

        2. BenRG

          Let me re-emphasise; I’m saying that Stacy may have been like that when she was in college. The impression I’m getting here is that in the subjective present, Richard and Stacy are getting serious. They maybe even working on being exclusive (which would be a huge step for Richard).

          Just to add: Saw the new character art for Richard in Willis’s Twitter and I really don’t like his creepy smile.

        3. thejeff

          Actually being exclusive would be a huge step for Richard. One for which we have absolutely no evidence. OTOH, conning one of his marks into thinking they were exclusive would be standard practice. He was married and cheating for years.

          Like Jason, I’ve got no idea why you think Stacy was boy-crazy back in college. Richard talks about sowing his wild oats, she doesn’t say or do anything to give any indication what she was like.

        4. Tan

          I think where people got that impression is that that was kind of the ‘fantasy’ that Richard was pitching, that college days were the days of sexual discovery and exploration, perhaps a bit of free love, wild nights and all that, and that the pair could relive that. While Stacy did not directly corroborate that that’s what her college days were, she did accept the fantasy without objection. Whether that means that was how her college days were or that she just liked the fantasy well enough not to get hung up on such details is (currently) a matter of reader interpretation.

        5. Ivanka the Terrible

          Her being into random semi-anonymous hookups in her first appearance, added to her general reaction of “yeah, sounds legit” to Joe’s confession of wrongdoing, are what add up into an impression that she’s probably fairly casual about sex. “Boy-crazy” is kind of a dickish way to phrase it, especially as it seems like she’s being set up as the positive mirror of his father in role-model terms. But it’s one of the stronger possibilities of where her bit is going.

      2. Needfuldoer

        I don’t think it’s anything that bad. To me, it looks like she’s trying to get Amber thinking about something else.

        Considering how long she stuck it out with Blaine, I think she subscribes to the “just ignore it and move on and it will go away” school of problem-solving. (That never works.)

        1. Jason

          Abusers tend to be very good at getting their partners tied to them for the long haul. (And also at selecting partners who will be much less likely to find a way to pick up and leave due to how they’ve already learned to think of others in relation to themselves.)
          My point is that being in an abusive relationship for a long time isn’t tied into a person’s school of problem solving. The way people in abusive relationships justify it varies- from “ignore it” to “I deserve it” to “they need me” to “ignoring THEIR problem would be more of a weakness than staying”, and on.
          I’m not saying that she doesn’t think the way you describe- her behaviour towards Amber backs you up, but I felt it was important to say that her relationship with Blaine could be a lot more complex than that, because abuse is complex. And it’s kind of my wheelhouse.

    3. Adam Black

      I think a partial explanation for Stacy viewpoint might be simpler.
      She has a totally different context than we do.

      She’s never seen Joe with Creepy or Boundary crossing behavior.
      She seems him acting self aware, with public shame, friendly, submissive and apologetic.
      ( which is the opposite context we have ) .
      ( and she likes his dad )

      She learns Joe had a private list that got hacked that talked about his personal preferences. ( She doesnt know it had subscriptions, Joe was creepy, objectyfying, leering and constantly gloated about the list… Making it more of a slam list than “my diary of sexxy thoughts got hacked” ).

      WE know it was cybersexual harasment. But without context it seems like the Millenial Boys version of ‘Harriet the Spy’.
      If Joe was always as respectful to women as he just was to Stacy, we would probably view him very differently.
      Its partly Joes behavior and attitude around his list that makes it creepy and awful. Not the mere fact of having a private list of girls he likes * which Stacy misreads ) .
      ( Also the list itself internally is also written disrespectully as possible But Stacy doesnt know this ).

      TLDR its the difference between ‘someone shared my locked diary’ or Publicized my Tinder List,

      to ‘Users Guide TO Sexually Harassing All the Local ladies’ .
      Yeah there is something broken in Joes Brain that he needed this spelled out to him.

      BUt as awful as this all is, ….IT Gets Worse…
      Stacy wont be the only woman who sees this that way. Joes Nonthreatening Apology Donut Tour will probably get him some dates. Especially if a woman doesnt know him, hasnt been leered by him ( and is secretly proud to be a high score ).

      1. Li

        I think Stacey just wasn’t paying attention to anything Joe was saying.

        HE called it a mean list, HE said her daughter was owed an apology if she was on it (and then he became visibly uncomfortable and sorry for Stacy after learning she knows his dad).

        Stacy heard every third word, AT BEST.

    4. Tan

      I would have preferred you to be right.

      *sigh* “ranked the bang-worthiness of the chicks here” (Joe’s exact words) somehow morphs into “a list of all the girls here and how cute he thinks they are”

      He did not say cuteness. He didn’t even say hotness, which you could maybe interpret charitably. He said bang-worthiness. The degree to which they are ‘worth’ banging.

      Dammit Stacy.

  43. rectilinearpropagation

    Boy, I was super wrong on my read on her comment a couple of days ago.

    Instead of being flat out wrong again, I will pose the following as a question: Is the blood sugar comment a sign that Stacy is one of those people who thinks mental illness can be cured by staying hydrated and getting more exercise? Because that’s gonna suck if that’s the case.

    I do remember that she wanted to get Amber therapy after the convenience store incident but…I dunno?

    1. huttj509

      As someone who has mental health issues, hereditary sleep issues, and grew up in an area with single digit humidity…

      Things like blood sugar, hydration, proper sleep etc are not cure alls. However, when having issues with them they make EVERYTHING harder, and are relatively easy to fix.

      Family’s pissed off and snapping at each other? We’d call a water break and be feeling MUCH better.

      Depression? Well, finding out I wasn’t breathing at night didn’t cure it, but it helped.

      1. rectilinearpropagation

        Oh definitely. It’s absolutely true that people can and do have both mental and physical health issues at the same time.

        I was worried that Stacy thinks those things are the sole issue instead of, as you point out, something that’s making things worse.

  44. Cass

    If it really gets serious you could be doomed to end up with someone who’d like to sleep with you as a brother in every universe, Amber.

    1. Adam Black

      oh, NO

  45. Michael Steamweed

    How much trauma can that poor girl take in a week?!?

    1. JessWitt

      Careful, those sound like fighting words.

      1. MatsuoTanuki

        Yeah, don’t tempt The Willis.

        1. ValdVin

          I picture a hand-tented Willis, looking for a.challenge…

        2. Deanatay

          Dammit, I remember Willis having an avatar image of himself with steepled fingers, would be perfect for this comment chain…

  46. Heavensrun

    Go Amber’s mom! ;p

    1. OBBWG

      Go!…into therapy.

      1. Ivanka the Terrible

        And leave your daughter there for like… a decade.

  47. Jay

    I think I can safely say I speak for everyone when I put this out there:

    Eeeeewwwww . . . !

    . . . Whether that sentiment refers to imagining Amber being shipped with Joe, or Stacy discussing banging Joe’s dad, or Amber’s handful of predigested moist saliva-slick donut mush, or some combination of all three, is entirely dependent on each reader individually.

    But I can’t imagine the sentiment itself isn’t universal, for one reason or another.

  48. sultryglebe

    While in no way thinking it would be good, emotionally supportive relationship for Amber, it could be a good experience for Joe to learn that a girl he would not as hot can introduce him to things like sex hanging from a grappling hook.

    1. Wack'd

      I’m not sure “unattractive girls are kinkier/try harder” is a good lesson for Joe to learn. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already part of how his brain operates.

      1. neeks

        Something something relative merits of gratitude sex something

        Ok I felt gross even typing that.

    2. Adam Black

      Except **He DID** rate Amazigirl as high on the list.
      ( and he was right)

  49. MatsuoTanuki

    Wow, you could almost hear the record needle scratch.

  50. Nenja

    Oh dear. Well, since her last relationship was with an abusive monster, in comparison Dr Richard seems like an improvement.

  51. BigDogLittleCat

    Stacy is excruciating. She strikes me as oblivious and shallow. And that horrible chipper attitude, like Amber just needs to cheer up. No wonder Amber is a basket case.
    I can’t even give Stacy credit for trying because she’s making things worse because she has no clue what is going on with her daughter. She needs to just shut up.

    1. chris73

      Or its a coping mechanism from when she was being abused by her husband or something

      1. Lena

        It being a coping mechanism doesn’t take away that she’s crap at actually providing what her daughter needs; and I say this as someone who’s an abuse victim herself.

        1. Jason

          I think it’s safe to say that most people agree that Stacy isn’t being what Amber needs. But the attitude towards her is massively varied, from empathy for what she’s been through and the person it turned her into (which is not the person Amber needs right now but is still a person who has hurt and learned to do what she must to protect herself) right through to seeing her as a terrible person and mother. I think Chris’ point was that she’s not a shallow and awful person, but one that’s been shaped by her horrible experiences and is still trying (even if she’s failing).
          It’s not about how we view her behaviour towards Amber, which is well-meaning but problematic- but how we view her as a person.

        2. chris73

          Yup, a lot of readers want to pigeon hole people into good or bad (with slight variations) categories and once they’re in its very hard for people to accept that they may have moved (or may not even deserved to been in it in the first place)

          Of course I’m guilty of that myself sometimes…

        3. BigDogLittleCat

          Stacy doesn’t need to be a terrible person and mother for her to be the kind of person who makes my shoulders up around my ears. Cheerfully “trying to help” in a situation they are utterly clueless about, as they blunder about crashing into things and if not causing more pain, upping the anxiety because you never know what they’re going to knock over next.
          The road to Hell is paved by people like Stacy.

          She obviously has no idea who her daughter even is. She is still treating Amber as if she were four, she seems completely unaware that Amber has serious mental health problems and a violent streak, and if what we’ve seen is indicative, she’s never validated Amber’s emotions in her life.

          Stacy strikes me as the type who is basically devoid of empathy. Fortunately, she’s at heart a nice person so she doesn’t deliberately fuck people over, but she cannot imagine that others experience the world differently from her so she assumes if it works for her, it’ll work for them. For pete’s sake, she’s trying to erase violent trauma with a donut and to cheer up a girl who just disemboweled a rapist by telling her she’s on a list of girls rated by their “bang-worthiness”, which list Stacy turned into “who is cute,” because a boy’s thinking you’re cute should make you forget your bloody encounter with a RAPIST.
          That is epic level clueless.

          Stacy probably is a victim and has a boatload of issues of her own, but she had a responsibilty to her child and she failed. Her behavior and attitude could be a coping mechanism, but that doesn’t mean I have to like her.

  52. BenRG

    Today is the day she learns that (1) she’s perilously close to becoming Joe’s step-sister and (2) that her mother knows nothing at all about her taste in men. Or her taste in donuts but we digress.

    1. Needfuldoer

      The last thing she needs is Joe as a stepbrother.

      As you can see on this chart, all step-sibling needs are doubly fulfilled by the great Faz!

      1. chris73

        Well I don’t know about that, I mean Joe has helped Joyce with her family issues and if theres anyone that knows what Richard is like its Joe so he mightn’t be so bad as a brother

  53. Nightsbridge

    I just noticed. While Amber’s mom has blush marks, the creature who provided the other half of Amber’s genetic code does not. Perhaps an intentional parallel to help divide Amber and amazi-girl?

  54. Whatevsman

    Everything about that sentence has left me violently ill

  55. darkoneko

    Oy Amber, that donut was innocent.

  56. chris73

    Just when you think this comic can’t get any better (or funnier) this strip comes along

  57. OnyxIdol

    I get the feeling that Stacy is the kind of person who forcefully maintains a chipper appearance no matter what, deliberately blending out things that make her uncomfortable.

    The way she treats her daughter’s mental illness and her “cutification” of Joe’s list seem to indicate that.

    Which is probably a coping mechanism from her time with Blaine.

    1. neeks

      Cue Monty python ‘s “always look on the bright side of life”

      1. OnyxIdol

        It’s not so much “looking on the bright side” as “denying the dark side even exists”.

    2. Halpful

      hmm. yeah, I tend to do that subconsciously. to the point that disturbing, dangerous things will get edited out of my vision. :/

    3. Bagge

      Almost certainly. Becky have a bit of the same coping mechanism from her childhood with ToeDad, and I think it’s a safe bet that Bonnie (who was “nice enough”) had it too.

      1. OnyxIdol

        I think the difference is that Becky actually *acknowledges* the bad stuff, and just pretends to not be fazed by it.

        1. Fart Captor

          Stacy might also not be terribly bright, and/or in denial about some of it. If she lacks the skill set to be much help herself, and also the money to pay for therapy to do what she can’t, then fully recognizing how much Amber is struggling would not be a fun time. It would still suck that she’s doing it, but I can imagine it being very tempting to let yourself mentally run away from that.

  58. Eldritch Gentleman

    Okay, seriously that lady needs to SERIOUSLY work on her taste in men…

    1. Bagge

      It IS a step up…

      1. Eldritch Gentleman

        I guess it is…

      2. ValdVin

        (Aside from sleeping with a married or attached person, or underage,) very few people would be not a step up from Blaine.

        I don’t know, maybe Stacy and Richard are each putting the same importance into this. But let’s see how it plays out.

        Where is Amber’s hometown anyways?

        1. Jason

          As a married person with full permission to sleep with any other consenting adult I wish to without it damaging our relationship, I protest the bit in parentheses. Sleeping with- not seducing, but sleeping with- an attached person is not as bad as being with an abusive dickbag. If they were going to sleep with one woman they’re not in love with, it’s an indication that there’s something they’re unhappy with- and that’s not on Stacy. It’s their choice to break the rules of their relationship.
          As for underage- consent. At what age a person is emotionally and mentally capable of consenting to sex varies, but certainly the law considers someone underage unable to give consent.

        2. ValdVin

          Yeah, I should have put that better about poly. Sorry.

        3. btoblake

          Consent is an interesting topic in the context of this strip.

          Legal age and the age of responsibility are getting to be closer together, and may even be crossing. Many first year college students have never made a doctor’s appointment for themselves, and don’t have the resources to handle a medical issue, or comfort with talking about health risks.

        4. McBogue

          Where is Amber’s hometown anyways?

          Considering the events of the convenience store robbery, it couldn’t have been too far from where Sal/Walky/Billie/Marcie lived. Maybe same city, different neighborhood.

        5. ValdVin

          That was a band road trip (and a game?) for Amber and Ethan, and Blaine specifically gripes about not having time away from his kid during it, as the others all went on a bus. Of course, the length of the trip wasn’t mentioned.

        6. McBogue

          You’re right, I forgot about that.

  59. AlexDenton

    Plot-twist : evil dad 1 isn’t actually her father, and Joe is her brother !!!!
    That’s my headcanon now and you can’t convince me it’s not true 😛

  60. Bagge

    MindBlaine: “You are as bad as meeeeeee. Booooooooo!!!”
    Amber: “I am as bad as y…”
    Stacy: “So, how’s your sex life?”
    Amber: “MOM!”
    Stacy: “Let me tell you about MY sex life.”
    Amber: “MOOOOOM!”
    MindBlaine: “Hello? Anyone listening to me? Hello?”

    1. Emperor Daniel

      MindFaz: “Let me tell you about the sex life of Faz.”
      MindBlaine: “NOoOOOoOOoooo…!”

      1. Reltzik

        MindFaz: “…. yes, that word, in that tone of voice, is exactly it.”

        1. SgtWadeyWilson

          MindFaz: “I have charts. Here you can see exactly how and why the sex life of Faz has been destroyed.” *Holds up a picture of Mary with horns and sharp teeth.* “Then these over here explain the plan and the proje-”
          MindBlaine: *Runs, screaming.*
          MindFaz: “He fears the genius of Faz.”
          Amber: “Great, now talking about Mom’s sex life sounds appealing…”

  61. Halpful

    I had a thought that seemed important, but I’m so sleepy now….
    One of the things that makes this comment section great is how people can disagree without turning it into a flame war. Like, when people work to understand the other side instead of just arguing their own, the place is more welcoming, to people with more perspectives on things. There’s good enough moderation to keep out most people who would abuse such behaviour. With a variety of perspectives, there’s less of an echo chamber, so more chance of someone disagreeing with you when you’re wrong. But in a friendly way.

    Yeah I’m too tired for this to really be coherent. Maybe I can make sense of it in the morning. The important part is that it’s good to have a space where it’s safe to be wrong.

    1. Bagge

      +1

    2. Jason

      It makes sense!
      The bankers part is that I believed it’s all one person. The same one drawing comics and looking after twin toddlers. I don’t know how he does it! I know it helps that new commenters have to await moderation but still, with the activity in the comments it must be a lot of work.

  62. EvolutionistX

    Oh… man.
    Speaking as a parent: there are absolutely times when kids are hungry or thirsty or tired (or need to use the bathroom, or bored…) and this can absolutely have a huge effect on behavior and it’s an important thing to keep in mind, because you can forget. Like, “Arg, why are my kids so difficult today? Oh, right, they woke up an hour early this morning because the neighbor’s car alarm went off and so they’re really tired. Poor kids, let me see what I can do to make this day a little easier.”

    But speaking as someone else’s kid: sometimes that is not the problem at all, and this is definitely one of those times. Not that low blood sugar would help, but that is clearly not what’s going on here, and to even suggest it is vaguely cruel.

    Also, if Amber were my kid, I’d be patting her back and telling her she’s awesome and that I brought her some victory donuts, and does she want to talk about it or go on, don’t worry, I can wait until she’s ready.

    1. Temperaryobsessor

      I think if someone’s complaining about something its rarely a good idea to suggest the real problem is some unrelated status condition. Unless they take two seconds to reflect and relies themselves that its the status condition on their own you will just irritate them further. You can suggest that tending to the status condition might make the other issue easier to cope with but don’t tell them that it is the real issue is status condition.

  63. Zaxares

    I’ve seen enough R34 sites to know where that last panel is going…

    1. BenRG

      It may not even be going that way. The only thing that needs to happen is for it to happen in Amber’s head. I wonder who Amber goes to for brain-bleach?

  64. Falling Star

    I was busy grabbing snacks for the drama, what did I miss?
    …
    …I’ll get more snacks.

    1. BenRG

      The thought of being Joe’s sister in law induced defensive projectile-vomiting in Amber.

  65. Josh Spicer

    I don’t say this often but…

    Ew?

  66. Vulcanodon

    Gave her the benefit of the doubt with “That’s cute” but…

    1. Trolldrool

      I think we all did.

  67. JQuire

    You do you, Stacy. It’s not hard to understand overlooking the philandering sex-maniac part because, hey, he’s attentive and not abusive and gal has needs.

    1. McBogue

      You do you, Stacy.

      “Or have someone else do you.” -Faye Whitaker

      1. Emperor Daniel

        Wasn’t that Claire’s line?

    2. thejeff

      Not hard to understand, but certain to lead to trouble. Especially if she’s now thinking it’s “serious”.

  68. Temperaryobsessor

    So according to Stacy Amazigirl goes around helping people return lost purses, directs people towards better places to express their artistic side, and occasionally scolds people for making bad decisions.

    1. Vulcanodon

      For a certain value of ‘scolding’, yes.

  69. Puckish Rogue

    Tell you what Amber if you did want to be set up with Joe then puking in your hands probably isn’t the way to go

  70. Orion Fury

    Having low blood sugar can constantly be a challenge, but accepting an apology donut for being put on a list that states how good and desirable you’d be in a carnal sense is desireable even less.

  71. BrokenEye, True False Prophet

    And you wonder why she has issues

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