154

Pissybaby
Posted on April 23, 2016 by David M Willis

154 thoughts on “Pissybaby”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    *then Joyce’s head slowly peeks out from behind a wall*

    *would have animated that but managing finance bullshit*

    1. Ana Chronistic

      idk, see the way Danno phrases it, at the end of a grappling hook doesn’t sound like a particularly sexy Slipshine

    2. Shiro

      Best buddies journey of emotional self discovery! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 :D?

    3. Cyntalan

      Man, now you got me thinkin’ of a DoA animated series…

      I want. 😀

      1. Pantheon the Mantheon

        As the kids say these days, “Shut up and take my money”

  2. Osopescado

    Oh sal :/

    1. SmilingNid

      Normaly I like finding characters I have things in common with…

    2. Dara

      Correct Sal is correct.

  3. inqntrol

    Damn it Walky, you did not even stay to hear what she had to say?!

    1. Wheelpath

      I feel like she waited

    2. heyman

      She says right there that she waited until after he left….

      1. inqntrol

        Hmmm, probably I didn’t read correctly and I understood something else.(it’s morning and didn’t sip my coffee yet and sometimes my brain doesn’t work properly)

        1. Carriethedragon

          It’s understandable that you got that impression. The pacing of the comic makes it feel like she said it right away, which sets us up for the punchline/plot twist that she actually said it after he left. (I think it’s well written, for the record.)

        2. Kamino Neko

          But Walky is clearly shown walking off in the first panel.

        3. Haven

          He’s not called Standaroundy.

        4. Mordecai

          You make a compelling point.

        5. Spencer

          *clap*

        6. Cephalo the Pod

          He’s not called fucky either but

        7. Mr.Morningstar

          HA

  4. Plasma Mongoose

    Today was a bad day to give up smoking…

    1. Doctor_Who

      Could be worse.

    2. Professor Fate

      This was a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

  5. Stephen R. Bierce

    A cigarette completely burns in eleven minutes.
    Some stand-up comedian on Merv Griffin taught me that fact.

    1. Stephen R. Bierce

      And I don’t know if I spun it before here, but this is a strip that calls for The James Gang’s “Walk Away”.

      1. Stephen R. Bierce

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-dLIZQAEIQ <- Here it is.

    2. Wizard

      It varies quite a bit, depending on the specific cigarette and how often you drag on it. I used to know one guy who typically smoked a Marlboro king size down to the filter in 2-3 minutes.

    3. desolation0

      It doesn’t necessarily need to be lit at the moment. She may be in the habit of having one dangle from her lips for the look and feel like Kojak with a lollypop.

      1. Cerberus

        It’s an oral fixation thing. Having something like an unlit cigarette or a toothpick or a straw or something can give your mouth something to worry and can reduce how much you actually smoke because you’re meeting the stress-reduction halfway.

        Seen it a lot in people trying to cut down or quit.

    4. Opus the Poet

      It is also noted in the section on timers in the special forces improvised munitions handbook. Unfortunately my edition is basically useless now because of all the reformulations due to environmental regulations. All the ingredients have changed so nothing goes “boom” anymore. Well except ANFO, ANFO will always go “boom”.

  6. Osopescado

    Also, DOA slipshine takes a BDSM turn? 😉

  7. Kris

    It’s okay Sal you still have a motorcycle it’s not all bad.

    1. drs

      Sal no Tabi

  8. Luzahn

    It’s okay Sal. We, the many-eyed intelligence beyond your sight understand your grief. Your delicious, delicious grief.

    1. Kris

      Yes. We feast on it and the grief of others like succulent fruit! Let us turn back to Joyce and her her mouth watering disillusionment of her family and religion! Maybe a bite of Sarah and her increasing levels of cynicism cutting of any chance for an intimate relationship as a chaser.

      1. B.O.H.

        You guys should play Fallen London.

        1. B.O.H.

          and I now realize that sounds like ad spam, but this comment thread is basically what the writing in that game is like, which is really really good.

          so what I’m saying is, you guys should make games. the highest compliment.

        2. Luzahn

          Aw man, Fallen London is great. I need to check if they’ve updated recently.

        3. thejeff

          I played that pretty obsessively a few years ago. The start is great. Eventually it turns into to much of a grind for me. You never seemed to get answers to any of the cool mysteries and it took way too long to get to any new content.

  9. Kamino Neko

    Sal Leonhart?

    1. Spencer

      Sal emotes too much to be Squall.

      She leans on walls about as much, though.

      1. Mr.Morningstar

        now she just needs to strap her knife to a gun

  10. 3-I

    But yeah, someone PLEASE tell me more about how Malaya deserves more screentime and Sal’s being whiny and possessive. c.c

    1. Spencer

      Sal is being whiny and possessive of Marcie, and she doesn’t get to insert herself into Marcie’s other relationships. It’s just, you know, she has really good reasons to be whiny and possessive because she literally has nobody else in her life and feels threatened when some giant asshole comes in and starts eating up time with the one person she has any kind of connection with.

      As for Malaya, well, I like her because she is just such an unapologetic asshole. She just wears it on her sleeve. If I knew someone like her I would hate them with the fiery intensity of a thousand suns, but she makes for an interesting character to observe.

      1. Deanatay

        I ‘unno, I actually think Sal has a lot of other people in her life. Her brother’s actually worrying about her (for the first time in her life), she’s got a caring boyfriend (who she absolutely shouldn’t be sleeping with), and at least one person who likes to talk to her (although she’d never admit it). It’s just that Sal has had Only One Friend for so long, she’s having trouble adapting to Friends (plural).

        1. Spencer

          Well, her brother is trying, sure, but she doesn’t want to get more involved in his life because his suburban white girlfriend wants a project to fix, she banged Jason because she thought she’d get something out of it (though there is an actual connection there, I think), and I’m guessing the last person you’re referring to is either Danny, Joyce or Carla, who can all be good for her as they don’t buy into the Cool Badass Aloof Rebel shtick (anymore, in Joyce’s case), and can actually approach her as a person instead of a concept.

      2. Cerberus

        This. Sal is being possessive of Marcie and is threatened by Marcie having a social life that is more full and doesn’t fully revolve around Sal’s emotional needs. It is an unfair request of Sal to expect more time and to feel hurt and jealous of the person who is receiving it…

        That all being said, it is absolutely 100% understandable why Sal is doing this and how badly she needs Marcie in her life, because Marcie is her only reliable support network right now. And it’s why I’m really rooting for Sal and Carla to hang out more, because it’ll take a lot of pressure off Marcie to not have to be “on” to supporting Sal every time they hang out (that can get exhausting long term, especially when you’re working multiple jobs and going through your own shit… and that sadly can mean making very costly mistakes in said support… yeah, learned that one the hard way). And it’ll make Sal feel less threatened by Marcie’s romantic and potential romantic partners and thus less abandoned by her.

  11. JessWitt

    Everyone in this comic needs to seek counseling.

    1. inqntrol

      And where would the drama be then?

      1. JessWitt

        The drama tag would also get counseling too.

        1. Deanatay

          Psychiatry: helping people live boring, unentertaining lives for over a century.

        2. Scar Man!!!

          There’s a reason that the famous Chinese curse is:

          “May you live in interesting times”

    2. AgentKeen

      That’s probably not too far off from real life.

    3. tim gueguen

      Galasso doesn’t. In fact Galasso should be counselling these people.

      1. Leorale

        “Fools! Your ‘friendships’ are of no consequence to the mighty Galasso. Leave this hall of pizza (and subs), conquer a great and vast nation. Forge your will in fire, or be destroyed!”

        1. Phroggonalog

          Yes

        2. Cacturne

          This is my favorite person.

    4. Spencer

      I don’t mean to deny that therapy is genuinely an incredibly important and absolutely necessary step for a lot of people, I know it was for me and in hindsight I don’t know how I managed to fall as far as I did before recognizing I had a problem, but I wonder if sometimes we jump the gun too much when we see the characters express any kind of sadness or apprehension over their lot in life.

      1. Emily Crowe

        Well, as someone who does what Sal is doing frequently, I can safely say that JessWitt is right in this instance.

      2. Leorale

        It depends whether your bar is that a person needs therapy to function practically at all, or that a person could probably benefit from therapy.

        (I’m in the second camp and I have lots of thoughts about it.)

        Even if it’s totally cool for anybody to get therapy, therapy is a time commitment, and when you’re doing it right, it’s hard work. So it’ll always be a cost/benefit analysis of how much time and work you want to spend, vs. what you might get out of it. Different people balance the scales differently in their own situations, to decide whether they’ll access therapy.

        Dorothy, for example, stands to gain a bit of stress-reduction, and a person with whom to skillfully process her feelings. That’s nifty and all, but she’s not likely to consider it worth her limited time, which she’d rather spend on a thousand other things.

        Joyce, on the other hand, might gain the independence to walk around outside by herself, might feel skillful when she deals with her family, might even hammer out a relationship with her childhood or with God that works for her! That’s kind a huge list of potential-gains, so the commentariat is much more likely to see it as worth the time and hard work it’d take to get a shot at them.

        1. Historyman68

          Not to mention that if you don’t have good insurance (or have deductibles, etc), therapy can be a pretty penny.

    5. Cerberus

      Prolly, hell, most of the people alive could probably benefit for some form of positive therapeutic aid…

      That all said, Sal is not going to seek that out for a loooooooong time given her own bad personal experiences with them as a child.

      1. Leorale

        Yeah, Sal brings in the ‘likelihood of it actually helping’ modifier. I am 0% mathy, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the equation for this choice could be:

        (T x TW) + (E x EW)
        ____________
        G / L

        T = Time
        TW = How much my time is worth to me
        E = Energy
        EW = How much my energy is worth to me
        (divided by)
        G = What I could Get
        L = perceived Likelihood of getting it.

  12. brumagem

    I know it’s supposed to be a punchline, but Sal. Your last line. SO RELATABLE.

  13. winter

    Sal has been my favourite character for a long while now, but this is probably the first time I’ve ever found her behaviour relatable on a personal level.

  14. Idontcarenomore

    I felt the same way when I was her age. Years later still haven’t changed my mind. It just takes a lot to trust someone.

  15. caesaria82

    Awwwww man. As someone with major trust issues to this day due to people leaving or breaking my trust in the past, I feel this on a deeply pesonal level. I love you, Sal.

  16. Kkiten

    I really hope Walky’s still actually there. Hiding or something. Please?

  17. LordOfTheSword

    Ugh… that hit way too close to home…

  18. Rukduk

    And now I’m sad again…

  19. Briny

    Dammit, now I have the Word of the Day stuck in that Beyonce “All the Single Ladies” song, in my head. (Only it’s not “Single-ladies” now.)

  20. miados

    I can relate to sal here so fucking much.

  21. Rqmc25

    My best friend recently died. We’ve been friends since I was five years old (18 years). I often felt like he was the only person I ever needed to be my friend, and since I found it hard to relate to anyone due in no small part to my autism he was my only friend for most of my life. I had to deal with depression as well as autism growing up. I would often reach out to people for help. They would respond at first but they would fade away from me in a few weeks, after they realized my problems weren’t the kind that would be fixed any time soon. I learned to handle my problems myself and only share them with my best friend if I shared them at all. I learned to handle things myself and completely embraced my inability to communicate with others, which is why now that he’s gone it’s easier to write an anonymous post about what I’m going through than it is to actually tell anyone I know.

    1. Yotomoe

      I’m sorry for your loss. I wish you and their family the best.

    2. B.O.H.

      I’m so, so sorry. I understand how that feels. It’s…like the first time I called a suicide hotline – and I’m not saying all suicide hotlines are like this, or even some of them, this is an individual experience. I was inching slowly towards it, and I was in that alien space where nothing could have reached me. I wasn’t going to do it right that second, and the minute the operator twigged on that they ceased to care immediately.

      Again. I’m so sorry about your loss. My thoughts are with you.

      1. monkyvirus

        Christ that happened to me they said “you’re don’t sound suicidal” at which point I hung up, left, tried to kill myself* and ended up being taken to the psychiatric hospital by the police (who were called after my friends realised I’d vanished). Stay classy suicide hotline people…

        *I know that sounds petty, I was clearly in a weird place

    3. Why do i even bother

      That really sucks, dude. For what it’s worth, as a random internet stranger, I really do think you can make it through this. I hope you find someone you can reach out to that will stay beside you for the long haul

    4. Badgermole

      I saw this, or something like it, happen to a dear friend of mine, and it hurt that beyond a point nothing I said or did would make things better for him. I understand that words of sympathy are limited in their effectiveness, but if talking to a random internet stranger can help at all, let me know and I’ll drop you a contact.

    5. JessWitt

      I’m sorry you lost your best friend. I hope you can find someone else that you can share conversations with (if the time comes that you want to).

    6. Cerberus

      *appropriate gesture of support*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. Definitely take care of yourself while you’re grieving! You are loved.

  22. JessWitt

    Finding more people to open yourself up to? You don’t need a lot, Sal, but you can start off with your twin. That’s a logical step.

  23. Yotomoe

    Someone Commissioned a nude Sarah
    so NSFW

    1. Some1

      Commissioned as in payed, or request? Just curious

      1. Yotomoe

        Commissioned as in paid. I’d simply say requested if it was simply a request.

        1. StClair

          Money well spent, IMO.

        2. Cerberus

          Yay for you getting paid for your art!

    2. Deanatay

      YES JACOB WOULD LIKE THAT

  24. Zatar

    Well this is a depressing comic to go to bed to. Damm You Willis.

  25. Tenzhi

    Pissybabies urine for companionship.

  26. Russ

    Sal is best gal

  27. Some1

    I’ve just realized that Danny is a total Amazon chaser, in both universes. People he has dated,

    Sal: a girl with actual superpowers

    Billie: a girl able to fight with Sal

    Amber: able to fight crime fairly well, and do back flips

    Dorothy: the only real exception. But you could still say that she’s pretty damn assertive.

    1. zaratustra

      He likes assertive women in general.

      Well. Assertive people.

      1. zaratustra

        oh god and he’s best friends with joe

      2. No Name

        Counterpoint: Ethan. Although he did stand up to Amber that one time….

        1. John

          Danny may not look for the same things in a guy that he does in a lady.

          Hmm. Maybe, like Joyce realizing that her relationship isn’t constrained by biblical dictates if she marries a woman, Danny needs to date a guy to have a relationship where he’s not the doormat.

        2. Spencer

          I don’t think Danny even recognizes what to look for in a relationship with a guy, if he feels the need to differentiate at all, since his criteria for romance so far seems to be “cool person I share common interests with who I can then fall in love with forever and ever.”

          Not really sure how Danny would stop being Danny if he dated a guy, though. If he learned to be less of a doormat while dating Ethan it would be because it’s Ethan, and not because he’s a dude. He could still very easily make the same mistakes he’s made with Dorothy and Amber with another guy.

        3. Cerberus

          And it would be so healthy for him, because it’s not at all a problem that he’s attracted to strong awesome ladies with powerful personalities.

          It is a problem that he firmly believes his role when dating them is to subsume his personality to be a support column for their personality rather than a worthy personality in its own right.

          And the fault for that is 90% on his parents and 9-10% on Joe. And it’s why I would love to see Danny be in a relationship that is healthier and more mutual and less playing on his particular issues like Ethan, but fear if he actually did because this is just how he thinks “dating” looks like and he’d try to do the same things with Ethan and Ethan wouldn’t be a strong enough personality to stop him.

          So I hope he dates Amber for a bit longer and she doesn’t go much more into abusive behavior than she already has, because this relationship is the first where Danny has actually physically started confronting his doormat behavior and the fact that that might not be the best way to support a romantic partner.

        4. Spencer

          Ethan, I think, would be a partner where he wouldn’t be able to feed Danny’s doormat behaviour. I don’t necessarily believe Amber or Dorothy did that, but more that Danny did it to himself through them if that makes any sense, but since Ethan’s probably really used to Amber talking about how she’s such an awful person he would probably leap right into trying to boost his self esteem as he has before. And despite his issues with his parents, Ethan’s one of the lowest maintenance members of the cast, to the point where Danny probably wouldn’t have much opportunity to beat himself up over how he’s not helping. The focus, I think, would be on Danny having time to sort through his own baggage.

          Honestly though, that’s part of why I like Danny and Amber together so much, since Danny’s grown and started to confront his worst issues, and I would love to see Amber get better with a partner supporting her, that I want them to work things out because they’ve just been through so much bullshit together.

          If it is a thing that’s going to happen, I’m just really curious as to how Ethan’s going to rationalize dating his best friend’s ex. TBH I could honestly see Amber trying to nudge towards him if she found out Danny was attracted to Ethan, that she needs to remove herself from Ethan’s happiness because how dare she get in the way.

        5. Cerberus

          Ok, I could see that and firmly agree that Danny and the voice of his parents that always lives with him are responsible for a lot of his “I must stop being a person and just support you” habits rather than them being encouraged by his romantic partners (both Dorothy and Amber seem to be really big on not wanting that from him).

          And yeah, that would be an interesting question if Danny was to become available. Both Danny and Ethan would probably think it would be gauche to move on to their best-friend’s last ex (technically it’s true with the line-up of Amber alters) and would be really down on that.

          I could definitely see Amber trying to do the self-sacrifice thing and shove Danny on Ethan after he comes out to her because “clearly I’m worthless and don’t deserve him” bullshit self-esteem issues.

    2. No Name

      There was also Ruth, the punchy goth, and Joyce, the over-possessive stalker, in Roomies!. Which just goes to show that, even when he doesn’t want to, he attracts assertive women like moths to a flame.

      1. John

        Ruth may be Indiana goth.

        Joyce, the over-possessive stalker also with actual superpowers.

        1. Leorale

          Almost all of the women in the cast are strong and assertive. It’s pretty neato.

  28. Asper Storm

    Oh you poor girl! I know exactly how she feels, going through the same thing irl only i’m not badass more like a lonely person who can’t draw even if he wanted to.

    1. Yotomoe

      Anyone can draw. You just keep doing it. Study life, learn fundamentals, actually figure out form and structure. Build on your meager skills over a period of years. It’s not impossible! It’s just hard. If art was easy, no one would make money doing it.

  29. Charles Phipps

    Danny and she should go have sex before he confesses he’s bisexual.

    *pause*

    What?

    1. Spencer

      Danny telling Amber he’s bi is literally the one thing I want to see more than anything in the comic.

      1. Leorale

        I would also like this very much. You and I are gonna be waiting a long time.

  30. Heinousactszx

    I thought Walky just straight ditched her until I read that last line.

  31. Nonagon

    This. I’ve pretty much got the three-year friendship cycle down to a science by this point, so I don’t see much value in opening up to someone who’s going to be too busy for me just as I’m finally starting to trust them.

    1. CJ

      How many hoops does one have to jump before you trust them?
      I know a pattern of giving up on people after a time when their testing passes a certain threshold.

      1. CJ

        What I want to say is, when you have learned that people around you could not be trusted, and you need much proof to the contrary from new people in your life, this is likely to create trouble with the new people. It’s really hard to deal with not being trusted by someone you like for no reason that you are responsible for. It hurts.
        That said, there are assholes out there,and there are situations in which even usually decent people act like assholes. So I hope you will meet some of the decent ones and know them for who they are.

  32. zmm

    Woudl be neat if Walky had just ducked around the corner and heard taht

    1. NelC

      He wouldn’t understand it, though. He sees Sal as being what she is because she’s trying to be cool, not because she’s been seriously damaged.

  33. saltchocolate

    Sal, I’m feeling you. Not that I think you’re doing the right thing by isolating yourself in this moment. But I totally get why. You have adulation and denigration in buckets, but real friendship? Not much, beyond the one good friend you see slipping away . . .

    1. Cerberus

      It’s an easy trap to fall into when you’re marginalized. Cause if most interactions with the world are going to be negative or shallow, why not just squirrel yourself away and try not to exist to much in the spaces with people.

      I really think we’re seeing a similar thing with Carla. If interactions in “normal daytime people hours” has a lot of Mary’s in it, why not stick to the midnight hours when almost no one is around and hang out with this girl who’s boxing her feelings in as much as she is?

      1. saltchocolate

        Good point! So true.

  34. Arianod

    🙁

  35. Nosebleed

    Sal Has been the realest and most relateable charcter for me so far this iteration. And as this story continues I find myself connecting with and wanting to help her more and more. Than I remember that shes’ not even a real person and there’s nothin’ i can actually do anyways. And I feel like one big dumb sad idiot. Thanks Willis.

  36. Willoughby Chase

    Coming close on the heels of Desperado, Clint Eastwood smokes: https://youtu.be/9ivcSHgEqkE

    1. Deanatay

      Deeeeeeeeeeesperate for companionshiiiiiiiiiiiip….

  37. StClair

    Neither of the Walkerton sibs are really good at this “feelings” (and sharing thereof) thing, huh?

    1. Deanatay

      it’s not genetic. I blame bad parenting.

  38. Jon

    I have to imagine that Parker and Hardison from Leverage did much the same thing while suspended from rappelling harnesses, given the frequency with which she shoved him off buildings.

  39. Sam

    Too relatable.

    *Goes to appreciate friends*

  40. Dariu55

    Always what happens with the black sheep of the family. Talking to one good, always-there friend, or just yourself.

  41. Spencer

    I used to be kind of ambivalent towards Sal and this chapter’s done wonders for her.

    Characters blatantly stating their motivations should be the worst thing ever, but it’s a really good tool when it’s earned. It stops being a lazy crutch and becomes an honest outpouring of feelings because they’re just too damn burnt out to keep dancing around the issue.

    1. Cerberus

      Yeah and it’s true to life. When you’re closed off to discussing things and you’ve been putting up a front, there does come that time when you’re just tired of that and you spill what’s actually going on.

  42. ischemgeek

    That mixture of desperate loneliness mixed with wariness and distrust.

    She is so lonely, but she can’t bring herself to reach out because she’s been hurt too many times.

    I feel bad for her.

    (that said, I don’t blame her for thinking Dorothy wants to make her a “project” – I’ve been made a project of, and for probably the same reasons as Sal, I stay away from anyone I get that feeling from.)

  43. Brute

    this is what having social anxiety has been like for me. people see a shy person and get excited to invite me somewhere or hang out with me to “bring me out of my shell” without realizing they’re treating my shyness as a project. they get frustrated when i don’t open up immediately, as though my personality should work according to their timeline. i am this way because of the genes i was given and the life i lived- one party or trip to a bar won’t change that, and if a person thinks it will, it’s even harder for me to trust them or want to be around them.
    so yeah, despite being completely unlike sal, i totally relate to her right now.

    1. ApersonAmI

      Dangit. The comment bellow was meant as a reply to this one. Whoops.

  44. ApersonAmI

    I have a similar situation with being touched. I have asperger’s syndrome, which in my case, among other things, means my tactile perception is considerably more intense then for most people. I *can* handle handshakes most of the time, and I handle hugs okay if I am in a stable mood and I had the chance to opt out, but any kind being touched that I am not ready for, or was not given to option not to recieve, is very uncomfortable for me.

    I have never spoken about this trait with any ambiguity whatsoever, I never imply this will stop being a thing at any point, I have never claimed to be shy, this is like being color blind or deaf on one ear, it is fundamental, it is how my senses work.

    And yet, people just do. not. get. it. So many people repeatedly try to touch my head or hug me from behind with no warning, so many people again and again do the thing I have asked them not to do, and get frustrated with me for still having the quirks to my senses as I did the last time they tried this.

    So, yeah. I hope people can come to simply accept your social anxiety as a personality trait, and not attempt to “fix” it, and also not get angry at you for making “fixing it” difficult for them.

    1. Raulwicke

      I dated a girl like that once… Taylor?

    2. Minotaur

      i’m wondering if people have a problem with doing things your way because announcing you’re going to hug someone or asking people if they would like a hug/if it’s okay to give them a hug/if you can have a hug, please makes it more of a big deal.
      Which I gather it already is from your perspective, so it would level the playing field and it would be the decent thing to do.

      But I’m wondering, could this be a thing? Thoughts?

      1. ApersonAmI

        Good question.

        People have often expressed that my being averse to touch is wrong, or strange, or childish, or foolish since “but you know me. Don’t you trust me?” or otherwise either some flavor of bad or an outright betrayal of them.

        This might be brought on by the idea that my description of how my senses work can’t possibly be right, since their senses don’t work that way, and therefore I must be lying for some reason. When I write that down, it sounds outlandish, but I know that this was the case for a fact with multiple former acquaintances.

        However, “asking makes it awkward” is one I have not heard about hugs. Sex, yes, unfortunately, but hugs, no.

        So, while not wanting to make it a big deal might be some unspoken part of it, it has seemed to me to be more of a failure of sympathy. “I do not feel that way, so they cannot possibly feel that way” sort of thing. I’ll be on the lookout for that one, though, since while that is still a sympathy fail, at least it is a kinder interpretation.

        1. Cerberus

          Consent for touch in general is a thing that people in general tend to be off on and unpracticed in, sadly. A lot of people tend to assume that some level of touch is always acceptable and there’s social stigmas that make it seem “rude” to object to certain forms of non-sexual touch (and even sexual touch depending on what type of person the receiver is).

          And a lot of it probably has to do with how bodily autonomy and consent are not held to a high enough standard to protect everyone’s comfort level from an initial breach of personal boundaries. And personally, I feel that should extend to things like casual touch in the form of hugs because not everyone is a huggy person.

          And a lot of the reason I feel that way is because I’ve known a number of people with your sort of thing where touch is averse. Some have been on the spectrum, some grew up in environments where hugs weren’t a thing, some have been survivors of sexual assault for whom hugs were triggering, and some just plain didn’t like hugs.

          All of that is to say that things like that are a boundary of bodiy autonomy and there’s no ifs, ands, or buts that make it “foolish” or “childish” or “unfair” for you to have a boundary to what types of touch make you uncomfortable. And it is on the hugger to ask, because without asking, they run the risk of violating a boundary like that. And practicing and being aware and not complaining when dealing with breaches of boundaries on something like this that is less fraught and less likely to deal actual trauma also tends to be really good practice for not making those breaches in things like sexual touch which can be so very damaging when a boundary is violated.

          Which is a very long winded way to say, having a boundary is not weird or wrong even for something as casual as touch, so fuck the people that try and make you feel otherwise.

        2. ApersonAmI

          Heh. *If you practice not being an asshole in everyday life, you will be better equipped not to be an asshole when being one would be really bad*, huh? Well said.

          Also, yes, autonomy. I wish our societies would respect it. You covered the body aspect quite well, but the way people think that they are entitled to other peoples time, energy, attention and bodies in general is so widespread, and applies to so many things.

          For example, I wish simply saying “I do not wish to speak with you, please do not try to engage me in conversation” was not seen as horribly rude while people are trying to talk to you in public. If you are not in a state of mind to hold a conversation, simply stating this should not be seen as this horrible crime. but no. being honestly unable or unwilling to abide the preferences of complete strangers regarding what belongs to you and not them is somehow really rude.

          Also: Thanks. I appreciate the sentiment. The lack of touch consent awareness has hurt me a lot, and I have indeed been raped in the past, but I am well aware that people who think I am wrong for having boundaries are assholes.

        3. Cerberus

          Yeah, that entitlement to time, physical bodies, emotional energy is a real big problem in society. How many really bad harassment movements are all based on the harassers feeling that they have been done wrong because a marginalized person refused to listen to them or give them a free education and withstand their bad-faith bigotry?

          And I feel it gets worse when there’s a power-imbalance on an axis of oppression. Rich people feeling entitled to the free time and labor of poor people. White people feeling entitled to time and emotional energy of black people. Men feeling entitled to women’s bodies and emotional aid.

          There’s a whole culture, it feels, that is built around this notion that those “lesser” than you owe you these sorts of things or else are being “rude” or “are being a (insert bigoted slur here)”.

          I sometimes wonder if we could fix half the problems with society if we could just hammer down this concept that no one is entitled to any person’s time, attention, labor, body parts, emotional care, or touch.

        4. ApersonAmI

          If the idea that it is unreasonable to expect others to give freely at their own detriment for no benefit was widespread, if the previous statement was a widespread moral, I do think that would fix a lot of issues. Not all of them, there are more ways than that do be awful to others, but the feeling of entitlement to the life and time of others covers so much bad behavior.

          so, yeah, maybe we *could* fix half of the problems that way. I mean, it covers every single thing that Reverend Stiffler mentioned that they observed men doing when Reverend Stiffler were presenting as female. http://chaoslife.findchaos.com/wig-worry-part-2

  45. Teddae

    This is one of the times I deeply appreciate the level of thought and construction you put into a comic strip in regards to a relatable moment.

  46. Ashley

    Right in the feels.

  47. Zaidyer

    This is completely normal. Everybody in the universe feels this way.

    Which is why we all need a hug!
    (And also why we won’t get one.)

  48. Cerberus

    Oh man, yeah, that “project” thing. Of course that would be a big trigger for her. I mean, we’ve seen in comic that her parents are very big on using various means of trying to “fix” her, either of the condition of being black (through hair straighteners and by teaching “white behavior” [i.e. ways of expressing and carrying oneself that are interpreted by society as “whiter” and “more civilized” and “proper”]) or of being angry, violent, or criminal (boarding school, therapists, etc…) and otherwise constantly viewing her as something that needs to be perfected in order to be deserving of even a fraction of the love her brother receives (I mean, how hard must she have worked to get to the same school as her brother, clean up her shit to the level she has, and so on and yet she’s still treated like a failure to his shadow even though they both reached the same accomplishment).

    And it’s why Marcie is so critical to her well-being. Marcie never is seen trying to fix her and just straight up accepts her without question. Even when she disagrees with a course of action, she’s more likely to just straight up telling her she’s wrong rather than coupling it with a “now here’s how you become better”. And it’s probably another big way that Jason is not only a creepy child-preying fuckwad but also openly toxic to Sal’s recover. Because Jason really does believe she is garbage who needs to be fixed and if she doesn’t subsume herself to him, then she never wanted to get better (and why Danny works so well as a tutor for her. He never tries to fix how she solves problems, just gives her the tools she needs to make her approach actually work for her).

    And it’s why she’s absolutely right that the last thing she needs right now is Dorothy.

    Cause, I love me Dorothy and her perpetual bundle of effort and empathy, but one of her flaws is that she definitely thinks its her responsibility to fix people who are broken or hurting and she gets more and more unhealthy about it the closer she is to them (her lecturing Danny when borrowing shoes, her attempts to torture her sexuality “fixing” Walky’s style or trying to force him through sex and the threat of tasks he doesn’t like to open up when he doesn’t feel ready to). And she’d definitely approach things in a way that would set all of Sal’s triggers off and make her feel patronized to like when seeing therapists as a child.

    It’s also why I look forward to her seeing more of Carla. Because Carla is pretty good about not trying to change or “fix” people, would likely have her own issues surrounding it (reparative therapy is a thing and people love suggesting it for trans folks), and is someone she’s already opened up a bit too surrounding things like her issues with Malaya.

    I think she could be a major pressure release valve for Sal in general, so I genuinely hope she doesn’t get so wrapped up in her dorm stuff that she doesn’t hang this weekend when Sal is most likely to open up.

    1. Charles Phipps

      Carla and Sal’s relationship is very sad because it’s clear Carla wanted to be Sal’s friend but Sal didn’t want any of it.

      1. ischemgeek

        I don’t think Sal wants none of it, I think she is too distrustful to leave herself open like that.

        1. Cerberus

          I think this. I was also worried about what will happen when Carla reveals she’s got a bit of a crush (not canon, it’s just my assumption from her stunned blushing face she did when Sal roller-skated in front of her), but then I realized that there’s no way Sal and Marcie didn’t have a similar conversation at one point, so Carla will probably be fine and hell admitting something like that might be the inciting incident for Sal to feel a bit more open trusting this connection.

    2. CJ

      I’m rather shocked that you seem to read Dorothy as someone who uses sex to get her lover to do what she wants.
      Your description fits someone who’s actually abusive. I don’t see Dorothy that way. When the thing about the thank-you note started of, it seemed a bit weirded and heavy-handed. Seems like atheist upbringing can still instill very conversative notions of propriety and she seems to be stuck there.
      Then, when she said she’d let him off the hook if he told her what was bothering him, this started out a a joke and she was totally not expecting his reaction of this being really hard to decide.
      Next strip, she apologized.
      I cannot quite see why Walky is making a three act opera about writing an thank you note to his mother – or not doing it, even if his lover wants him to – or about telling his girlfriend that he prefers to deal with his problem alone and would she please back off?
      It’s not Dorothy’s job to make his immaturity easy. Its also not her job to try to change him, and she occasionally does this. Still, in my view the line to being abusive is still far off.

      1. Regina Phalange

        I agree. Dorothy does change things about Walky, but almost never in a way that raises red flags. It’s a little much for a “for-funsies” relationship, but if they were in a steady relationship (what Dorothy is used to), that’s the kind of behavior that’s considered normal. She pushes her views with people she cares about, but she has always backed off when asked (see: Joyce telling her to stop trying to change her). There’s no reason to believe that she would make Sal a “project”–she might act pitying, which would piss sal off, but she simply doesn’t have the time to try to “fix” Sal.

        1. Cerberus

          I would agree. I really don’t think Dorothy is abusive or even that she’s got bad boundaries. She’s honestly got some of the best boundaries in the whole strip. When people ask her to back off, more often than not she tends to do so overall and definitely does so in the moment. She’s navigated really fraught situations with Joyce like a goddamn champ. I absolutely love me some “bony poindexter” to use Becky’s description of her.

          I do think she would trigger Sal’s “not another clueless well meaning white girl tryin’ ta fix me” senses something fierce. Hell, that’s in the comic. Sal doesn’t even want to do the meeting in the first place because she’s already feeling like she’d just be a project to Dorothy and that’s just based on the invitation (cause beyond that, I think they’ve met maybe 4 times [beach, joyce meeting after the assault, joyce’s party, and when meeting Walky after a math class].

          When someone is feeling like that before you even try to help, that’s a no win situation from the beginning so I think it would be healthier for both if neither of them slammed into that mess.

          On the Dorothy sleeping with someone to get them to open up:
          http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/stillhere/

          She’s done it. Sure, it’s not intended to be coercive and she uses the right language about it, but she totally suggests sex because she hopes that it would get her boyfriend to open up about what was going on in his life. I don’t think I’d agree it was abusive (and I feel the opposite would be WAY more abusive, someone saying they’d only open up if the other slept with them), more that she has a hard time letting things that are off lie there and she picks at it like a scab and like any overworked overstressed Type-A personality, sometimes wants to jump to shortcuts that solve a “problem” that also work as a win-win in some other respect (she and Walky get hot sex when they are horny).

        2. CJ

          Hm, I read that one as her trying to find a way to make him feel better. And though she offers other solutions she might believe its necessary to to talk about problems to solve them. Her family seems to value talk for conflict resolution (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/takeafter/ )
          I’m rather sure she hates not being able to help.

          This aside of hers “maybe you will open up in the afterglow” actually makes it less manipulative because it’s transparent that she hopes for this.
          I would be rather worried about a lover who usually takes every opportunity to have sex when an aside like that gets such a reaction.

          I don’t know how Dorothy would approach Sal. She doesn’t really know her, just the cool side that gets Joyce’s admiration and that side doesn’t really invite being made a project. And Walky just said that their parents were not treating them equally (I’m rather starting to appreciate that my parents tried to treat us equally to the point of absurdity) – she doesn’t have a clue about the stuff that invites liberal guilt.
          She’d probably me nosey, though.

  49. Mav

    I really relate to Sal here, I totally understand why she wouldn’t want to meet with Dorothy, especially because Dorothy does tend to want to change people. it comes from a benign enough place, but the point of being a whole person and being seen as a whole person is that you are a WHOLE person, problems and everything.

    I understand her fear because I’ve had experiences where I open up after many requests from a person or people, only to be seen solely as my problem. The truth is, as much as there are many people who are genuine, there are people who simply don’t want to deal, so if they can’t “fix” the problem, they move on, not realizing that many of the problems people encounter in life are not all isolated, they can last and be really formative to a person’s personality and experiences. In my point of view, trying to “fix” someone you don’t even know well is presumptive at best, and having a literal pity dinner from the jump is a bad start to a friendship. Assuming that Dorothy is trying to fix Sal here.

    Either someone told me this useful thing, or I read it somewhere:
    “You are not your problems. You are a normal person having normal and regular responses to unusual/traumatic circumstances.”
    When you get free ice cream, you’ll feel happy. When your parents reject you and treat you badly your whole, you’re obviously gonna feel some type of way for a while.

    Sometimes it feels easier to isolate because at some point you become so exhausted from expending energy to open up, only for people to discover they aren’t as open minded as they thought. And sometimes too, people unnecessarily assume that because you are opening up, they *have* to fix the problem.

    There’s a difference between:
    “I’m telling you this so can understand certain aspects of my character and personality and why I experience things the way I experience them.”

    and

    “I’m telling you this, pity me and solve my problems for me.”

    1. CJ

      Totally agree with the last sentence. It’s not always easy to see at first glance which one is happening or make clear what one wants.

  50. Valkyr

    oh no Sal’s me but with more racism involved 🙁

  51. Jack Faire

    Hooray for self sabatoge

  52. Bagge

    Awww, don’t be sad, Sal. Joyce can be your friend.

  53. Kyle Voltti

    Sal reminds me of a line from Moscow on the Hudson. Robin Williams character is lamenting his growing disillusionment with America and says that even though he was miserable in Russia that he loved his misery because it was his.

    Sal seems like she loves her misery because it lets her justify her judgments about people. Not least of which is herself

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