Always assuming that she didn’t go to therapy the same way she quit drinking when Ruth did. Billie is not the most reliable of narrators.
thejeff
This feels more real though. Not how Billie would lie about it.
Plus we just had the whole “Billie is lying about therapy” arc. It would seem a rehash to go straight to “And she’s still not really going”.
Regalli
Yeah, we had quite a while of that, and Billie NOT going seemed set up before we had direct confirmation – if only because she was still downplaying her issues and trying to present the Head Cheerleader Alpha Bongo persona to the Forrest Quaddies. Her decision to go was marked as pretty significant – a decision she made because Ruth made it clear she WASN’T in for sexy self-destruction anymore, and which she’s reinforced since with that talk with Forrest Quad that included an attempt at self-sabotage, but also a ‘holy shit it finally hit me that that DUI was a Big Fucking Deal’ moment. We’re not getting a clear sign Billie’s being evasive here, and she’s showing way more self-awareness than before.
I was more referring to the universe caring what you do being like a god watching over you, and altering events accordingly as a test or passing judgement.
Well, it’s more like “I hate me” but, yeah- does seem like Billie is.. ah, what’s the term the kids use.. “down for anything”?
..oh, hey, apparently there’s a song by that title. Hmm, the lyrics kinda fit?
“Every time you look away
I just want it more and more
And even though we can’t afford the pain
I’ll take it till we figure it out baby
Let’s figure it out, figure it out now
We’ll figure it out baby, another day
You know I’m not sorry
For loving this way”
Oh, not at all. But Ruth seems to have been mired in depression untreated for years, and made herself all hard and mean between that and Sir’s abuse, so I can see it being an unfamiliar emotion to her again. (Lord knows I’m not pleasant during an episode, and I’ve never lasted that long without treatment.)
Totally plausible. Depression makes one seem selfish, because there’s legitimately so much to deal with in here that we can’t look outwards (as we normally would when we aren’t depressed).
I was often agonizingly aware that I was being insufferable or selfish, but I also *had* to be, on account of my brain being on fire.
It’s super healthy that Ruth is able to begin looking outwards more often! Yay! She’ll keep having support as she graduates to increasingly dealing with the world outside her own head.
Ooh, I don’t need no cure
I don’t need no cure
I don’t need no cure
Sweet lovin’
Sweet, sweet love
Sweet, sweet love
Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet love
Don’t call a doctor (sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet)
Don’t call my momma
Don’t call my preacher (love)
No, I don’t need it
I don’t want it…
Well Ethanny is in the dumpster so as far as future potential ships go we have… oh no, Joe/Joyce?
clif
Amber finally finds out that Danny is bi and sets him up with a recovering Mike. Mike is conflicted because of his promise to Ethan but he owes Amber for getting his parents to finally leave.
For me a running theme of this comic is that you don’t get what you think you want or think you deserve (positive or negative). You get what you get, then you deal with it in a more or less constructive way, and you let it change you (or not) for better or worse.
See for example… every single character of the strip, but maybe Joyce, Sal and amber are most on the nose.
It’s largely a defense, but I think Carla at her best outnarcissises Malaya readily. I mean, look at how she owned Joyce in the shower and Sal on skates.
The thing with Carla is that it’s unclear to what extent her narcissism is genuine and how much of it is a role she’s playing (as you say, largely as a defense). Carla owns her narcissism, highlights it, and jokes with it — you can call her on it and she doesn’t deny it, just goes even further and claims it’s justified. Malaya is genuinely self-obsessed and isn’t even aware that she is, which to my mind is the sign of true narcissism. If you accused her of being a narcissist, she’d stare at you blankly, not understand what the hell you were talking about, and find an excuse to accuse you of being fake.
Nono
Malaya did have a brief, minute, temporary moment where she went, ‘Oh no! Am I fakey?’
So a stopped clock, etc.
I think Mary actually takes the cake? Or Roz? Carla’s a worthy contender, though.
Leorale
I’m not sure I understand all the Roz-hate in the comments. Sure she can be abrasive and manipulative at times, but she’s super passionate about people and topics who aren’t herself!
A narcissist would definitely not have seen Leslie’s lesson plan as “well played”; a narcissist would’ve exploded that the criticism was unfounded, or more likely, missed it entirely. Roz also considered Leslie her favourite teacher, because Roz learns in this class when she didn’t expect to. She’s somebody who legit wants to grow, not somebody who has built a fragile castle on thinking that they’re already perfect.
Carla is pretending to be uncaring, as a protective front. She would be glad for us to think she’s a narcissist, but she isn’t one,
she cares about people despite her protests that she doesn’t want to.
Mary might be — she’s certainly a hypocrite with a very inflated ego, like when she tells AG that she has to be the beacon of Christ or something, and she and her boyfriend are making out about how she the only righteous person. It’s weird. She’s weird. Could be.
March
Yeah, I’ve never understand the Roz-hate. She’s eighteen and passionate, she’s just kind of hardheaded about all of it and doesn’t have the life experience to understand when to pick her battles, and when she’s hurting more than helping. She will eventually get there.
What I really don’t get is that people are willing to jump down Roz’s throat for everything she does, but Danny pulls that BS he did in the hospital and people are defending him.
Mary isn’t a narcissist, not IMO. She’s too genuinely self-righteous. Mary is an evangelical, is the problem. She was raised in an environment that taught her everyone around her that doesn’t follow her religion in the exact same way she does is evil, and she’s better than them. Not just a little better, she’s Special, her church is special, and everyone else is less than human. They’re all stupid, misled, and sinful. She can do no wrong, of course, because she’s the Right Kind of person, who goes to the Right Church and follows the Right God. That’s how evangelicals think, and that’s how they raise their children. And they raise them to be smug and loud about it, too, it’s their /thing/. They give their children treats and rewards for bringing friends to youth services, and then they try and convert those kids too, no matter their family’s religion or lack thereof, and if that kid doesn’t immediately convert, Mary and kids like her were told to never speak to those kids again at school or wherever. It’s her whole worldview, and she’s been taught only her worldview is correct and if she ever thinks differently, she’d be Wrong. She’d be stupid and evil too. Joyce and Mary are literally two sides of the same coin, except Joyce had people in her life who insulated her from the more insidious parts of this sect. Mary absorbed all the vitriol and maliciousness, right down to the bone.
thejeff
Nah, Mary’s worse.
We don’t know much about how Mary was raised. Mary’s problem is more than the church. She’s got all that and it certainly helps, but she’s also a schemer. Early on, Joyce would see someone doing something she thought wrong and go all self-righteous and holier than thou, Mary would just take note of it and wait for a way to use it against them.
Rabid Rabbit
Mary’s definitely worse. After all, Joyce got the upbringing March describes, and she’s shown that she can outgrow it in just a few weeks.
Meanwhile, IIRC, Word of Willis is that Mary’s parents are actually perfectly nice people and not very religious, and that Mary became an evangelical of her own volition, leaving her parents baffled at how they created a monster. She’s kind of like Mike in that regard. On that basis, until Willis reveals otherwise, I’m assuming Mary’s personaltiy flaws came first and that she gravitated to evangelism because it gave her the perfect framework within which to give in to all her worst impulses and feel great about doing so.
106 thoughts on “Narcissism”
Ana Chronistic
“joke’s on them, it’s actually LIKE MINDS attract!”
Ana Chronistic
though then it’s like, do I like you for you, or for “another me”?
Chris
The question stops mattering when you realize that separation is an illusion.
clif
We are all Willis.
Except less talented.
Geneseepaws
Harsh!
But meh it’s true
TachyonCode
Who ever suggested those were mutually exclusive? These are complementary possibilities.
Nono
If you fall in love with your identical twin, is THAT narcissism?
Octopus Ink
‘Almost’ literally. In the classical sense.
I think it’s more proper when it’s your own reflection in the mirror, though.
Bicycle Bill
I believe there is a different term for that, and it starts with the letter ‘I’.
ktbear
Sorry, is that the letter l or the letter I. Oh wait, never mind.
Opus the Poet
Sans serif fonts can be so confuzing.
clif
Narccissism is best; roll your own.
No, doesn’t work.
Octopus Ink
Awww, they’re so cute when they’re trying desperately to get their lives together in the face of rising ennui and peripheral tragedy.
clif
Though actually you could have stopped after cute.
BBCC
HOORAY FOR THERAPY!
Regalli
YAAAAAAAY Billie seems to be getting at least a little out of it too to be so casual about it all!
clif
Always assuming that she didn’t go to therapy the same way she quit drinking when Ruth did. Billie is not the most reliable of narrators.
thejeff
This feels more real though. Not how Billie would lie about it.
Plus we just had the whole “Billie is lying about therapy” arc. It would seem a rehash to go straight to “And she’s still not really going”.
Regalli
Yeah, we had quite a while of that, and Billie NOT going seemed set up before we had direct confirmation – if only because she was still downplaying her issues and trying to present the Head Cheerleader Alpha Bongo persona to the Forrest Quaddies. Her decision to go was marked as pretty significant – a decision she made because Ruth made it clear she WASN’T in for sexy self-destruction anymore, and which she’s reinforced since with that talk with Forrest Quad that included an attempt at self-sabotage, but also a ‘holy shit it finally hit me that that DUI was a Big Fucking Deal’ moment. We’re not getting a clear sign Billie’s being evasive here, and she’s showing way more self-awareness than before.
Mra
I thought it was called religion
Geneseepaws
It is if you are releasing your inner Thetian.
clif
CLEAR!
Geneseepaws
You are really ‘On’ today, quips and comments all top drawer.
clif
If Narcissism is your religion, you may have a future in politics.
Mra
I was more referring to the universe caring what you do being like a god watching over you, and altering events accordingly as a test or passing judgement.
Kyrik Michalowski
I love Ruth and Billie, I hope they get the help they need and have a long happy relationship.
That’s what I hope for, but what does Willis have in store for them?
Cyrus
Misery, most likely, but I love these two as well, so I prefer to relish in the good while I still can.
ktbear
Well, if you WANT a long happy relationship for them then Willis almost definately DOESNT have that in store for them.
clif
You don’t know that. There is at least a one in two quadrillion chance they could live happily ever after.
He Who Abides
I’m a Corellian, kid. Never tell me the odds.
lightsabermario
I mean it depends on what you mean by long. By our time standards it’s pretty much guaranteed.
March
Well, now Ruth is feeling a much more familiar, and therefore manageable, emotion: annoyance.
Good job, Billie. You knocked her right out of her funk, like a good girlfriend does.
Doctor_Who
Ruth’s annoyance with Billie, and Billie’s amusement at Ruth’s annoyance with Billie, are the bedrock of the relationship.
HeySo
I mean, those two things you mentioned certainly do seem to be what get the bed rocking, yes.
StClair
“Go Leafs.”
Deanatay
I mean, normally, their relationship is like:
Ruth: I hate you.
Billie: That’s so hot.
But, I guess, now it’s like:
Ruth: I love me.
Billie: That’s so hot.
HeySo
Well, it’s more like “I hate me” but, yeah- does seem like Billie is.. ah, what’s the term the kids use.. “down for anything”?
..oh, hey, apparently there’s a song by that title. Hmm, the lyrics kinda fit?
“Every time you look away
I just want it more and more
And even though we can’t afford the pain
I’ll take it till we figure it out baby
Let’s figure it out, figure it out now
We’ll figure it out baby, another day
You know I’m not sorry
For loving this way”
bcb
It’s not so far-fetched that she feels more empathy now that she is taking antidepressants.
Regalli
Oh, not at all. But Ruth seems to have been mired in depression untreated for years, and made herself all hard and mean between that and Sir’s abuse, so I can see it being an unfamiliar emotion to her again. (Lord knows I’m not pleasant during an episode, and I’ve never lasted that long without treatment.)
Leorale
Totally plausible. Depression makes one seem selfish, because there’s legitimately so much to deal with in here that we can’t look outwards (as we normally would when we aren’t depressed).
I was often agonizingly aware that I was being insufferable or selfish, but I also *had* to be, on account of my brain being on fire.
It’s super healthy that Ruth is able to begin looking outwards more often! Yay! She’ll keep having support as she graduates to increasingly dealing with the world outside her own head.
OtterBoy1
My computer can’t handle the ads but it’s a really good use of the space
Sirksome
Well it’s good to know what you’re into.
Stephen Bierce
Ooh, I don’t need no cure
I don’t need no cure
I don’t need no cure
Sweet lovin’
Sweet, sweet love
Sweet, sweet love
Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet love
Don’t call a doctor (sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet)
Don’t call my momma
Don’t call my preacher (love)
No, I don’t need it
I don’t want it…
Stephen Bierce
(“Love Hangover” by Diana Ross, spring of 1976)
Bagge
Things goes… well?
I think that is… good?
FacelessDeviant
Yeah, I’m worried too.
Also Becky
Billi: *goes to therapy*
Me: *slams hands on desk* GOOD FOR HER!!!
CMasta1992
This is still an insanely unhealthy relationship so I’m still side-eyeing it.
Take the same arc and put Mary and Malaya here and y’all be questioning it too so
Bagge
True.
…but honestly, if Mary and Malaya looked at each other like that, I might root for them too.
Cmasta1992
You deserve better ships Bagge. We all do.
Nono
Well Ethanny is in the dumpster so as far as future potential ships go we have… oh no, Joe/Joyce?
clif
Amber finally finds out that Danny is bi and sets him up with a recovering Mike. Mike is conflicted because of his promise to Ethan but he owes Amber for getting his parents to finally leave.
Deanatay
The S.S. Joece is my Flying Dutchman…
Bagge
For me a running theme of this comic is that you don’t get what you think you want or think you deserve (positive or negative). You get what you get, then you deal with it in a more or less constructive way, and you let it change you (or not) for better or worse.
See for example… every single character of the strip, but maybe Joyce, Sal and amber are most on the nose.
Bagge
When it comes to ships… Every ship that involves Walky, Joyce and Danny seem to hammer that point home, and Ruth and Billie are a master class.
Zee
I’d be down tbh
Jess
I hope that’s a joke because otherwise it’s…not good.
I love how Billie is drawn in this strip though! She’s so round and friendly-looking! And good on her for finally going to therapy!!
Reltzik
So… Billie’s deciding to echo what Ruth’s been saying?
*waits for like three people to get that joke*
Ray Radlein
There have to be more than three Classics majors around
clif
Classics majors? Don’t they teach myths in school any more?
Chris Phoenix
I thought it was a therapy joke. “Let’s talk about how you feel about being a narcissist.”
Rectilinear Propagation
It took me a second, but I got it!
When I was very young my parents got us a set of books and one had a bunch of myths from around the world and this one was in there.
Lingo
(Trying to think of the ACTUAL biggest narcissist of the cast)
…Better keep Billie away from Malaya…?
clif
It’s largely a defense, but I think Carla at her best outnarcissises Malaya readily. I mean, look at how she owned Joyce in the shower and Sal on skates.
Rabid Rabbit
The thing with Carla is that it’s unclear to what extent her narcissism is genuine and how much of it is a role she’s playing (as you say, largely as a defense). Carla owns her narcissism, highlights it, and jokes with it — you can call her on it and she doesn’t deny it, just goes even further and claims it’s justified. Malaya is genuinely self-obsessed and isn’t even aware that she is, which to my mind is the sign of true narcissism. If you accused her of being a narcissist, she’d stare at you blankly, not understand what the hell you were talking about, and find an excuse to accuse you of being fake.
Nono
Malaya did have a brief, minute, temporary moment where she went, ‘Oh no! Am I fakey?’
So a stopped clock, etc.
I think Mary actually takes the cake? Or Roz? Carla’s a worthy contender, though.
Leorale
I’m not sure I understand all the Roz-hate in the comments. Sure she can be abrasive and manipulative at times, but she’s super passionate about people and topics who aren’t herself!
A narcissist would definitely not have seen Leslie’s lesson plan as “well played”; a narcissist would’ve exploded that the criticism was unfounded, or more likely, missed it entirely. Roz also considered Leslie her favourite teacher, because Roz learns in this class when she didn’t expect to. She’s somebody who legit wants to grow, not somebody who has built a fragile castle on thinking that they’re already perfect.
Carla is pretending to be uncaring, as a protective front. She would be glad for us to think she’s a narcissist, but she isn’t one,
she cares about people despite her protests that she doesn’t want to.
Mary might be — she’s certainly a hypocrite with a very inflated ego, like when she tells AG that she has to be the beacon of Christ or something, and she and her boyfriend are making out about how she the only righteous person. It’s weird. She’s weird. Could be.
March
Yeah, I’ve never understand the Roz-hate. She’s eighteen and passionate, she’s just kind of hardheaded about all of it and doesn’t have the life experience to understand when to pick her battles, and when she’s hurting more than helping. She will eventually get there.
What I really don’t get is that people are willing to jump down Roz’s throat for everything she does, but Danny pulls that BS he did in the hospital and people are defending him.
Mary isn’t a narcissist, not IMO. She’s too genuinely self-righteous. Mary is an evangelical, is the problem. She was raised in an environment that taught her everyone around her that doesn’t follow her religion in the exact same way she does is evil, and she’s better than them. Not just a little better, she’s Special, her church is special, and everyone else is less than human. They’re all stupid, misled, and sinful. She can do no wrong, of course, because she’s the Right Kind of person, who goes to the Right Church and follows the Right God. That’s how evangelicals think, and that’s how they raise their children. And they raise them to be smug and loud about it, too, it’s their /thing/. They give their children treats and rewards for bringing friends to youth services, and then they try and convert those kids too, no matter their family’s religion or lack thereof, and if that kid doesn’t immediately convert, Mary and kids like her were told to never speak to those kids again at school or wherever. It’s her whole worldview, and she’s been taught only her worldview is correct and if she ever thinks differently, she’d be Wrong. She’d be stupid and evil too. Joyce and Mary are literally two sides of the same coin, except Joyce had people in her life who insulated her from the more insidious parts of this sect. Mary absorbed all the vitriol and maliciousness, right down to the bone.
thejeff
Nah, Mary’s worse.
We don’t know much about how Mary was raised. Mary’s problem is more than the church. She’s got all that and it certainly helps, but she’s also a schemer. Early on, Joyce would see someone doing something she thought wrong and go all self-righteous and holier than thou, Mary would just take note of it and wait for a way to use it against them.
Rabid Rabbit
Mary’s definitely worse. After all, Joyce got the upbringing March describes, and she’s shown that she can outgrow it in just a few weeks.
Meanwhile, IIRC, Word of Willis is that Mary’s parents are actually perfectly nice people and not very religious, and that Mary became an evangelical of her own volition, leaving her parents baffled at how they created a monster. She’s kind of like Mike in that regard. On that basis, until Willis reveals otherwise, I’m assuming Mary’s personaltiy flaws came first and that she gravitated to evangelism because it gave her the perfect framework within which to give in to all her worst impulses and feel great about doing so.