Do we actually know that McAwesome’s serves saké?
Or is this a post-last binge overture: I’m asking you out to a place without alcohol to show you I’m going to stop tempting you with it.
Unfriendly reminder that when Ruth first tried to go sober Billie lied through her teeth for several days until Ruth caught her out-and-out in her lie.
This is performative so she can get Ruth “back,” nothing more.
thejeff
It’s certainly possible. I think this is different, at least as far it all being much more serious now.
That she was out on one last binge suggests that she at least is thinking about stopping, not just pretending.
She is very likely to fail of course, but I’m not convinced it’s all performative.
All of which of course is sort of beside the point: Even if it’s performative, that means she’s not asking Ruth to go out to the drinking place. If McAwesome’s does serve sake, then it’s not even performative.
My wife and I come from very different backgrounds regarding arguments. In my family, it’s just the way you talk to get a word in edgewise. Where she was from, you either agreed all the time or you were a broken couple. It’s led to a lot of confusion when I don’t even remember a fight ten minutes later. We’re celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary this year.
Just make sure to apologize if your wife looks upset. 😉 She might understand on an intellectual level that it’s just how you were raised, but it doesn’t negate any hurt feelings on her part. Over many years, this can lead to a slowly building resentment that eats away at a marriage, the literal straw that breaks the camel’s back, even though you might never event realize it. This is what happened to my parents. My mother is extremely good at arguing and debating and was always taking my father’s eventual silence for assent. It wasn’t. He just knew that he couldn’t win in an argument and decided to “give way” for the sake of peace. Well, after years and years of giving way, he finally decided he had enough of his opinions “not mattering”. And by then it was too late. The damage had been done.
I doubt she’s completely sober already, but her tolerance is higher than someone who doesn’t drink constantly so she doesn’t show it as much. If any of the other main characters drank as much as Billie probably did today (to get to the point where we saw her at movie night), they’d be flat on their ass.
Also, with alcoholism, sometimes you NEED (well, “need”) booze to be able to appear normal. I’m fairly certain she’s just less drunk than earlier and Actually Sober Billie will look quite a bit closer to death.
Sunny
That’s after years of drinking, though. When you get severe withdrawal symptoms (like hallucinations and tremors) when you don’t drink. Billie is definitely not yet at that stage, she hasn’t had enough time nor has she been drinking enough and regularly enough.
Alcohol is bad, but it doesn’t get that bad that fast.
thejeff
Ruth’s shown withdrawal symptoms when she’s first quit. I suspect in both their cases though, it’s more likely a bad hangover that they normally just drink more to mask.
BBCC
TBF, the first time we saw Ruth was three days later. Is it possible to still be hungover after three days? Genuine question, I do not know. I think it is likely to be actual withdrawal symptoms.
Frankly, even mild withdrawal bites. My only personal experience with it though is coming off seizure meds I’d been on for 16 years, but it was unfun. Ruth’s withdrawal was shorter (so far as I can tell) but she’s also (presumably) not been drinking for 16 years.
I actually sympathize with Billie to an extent here. Ruth has completely changed her personality and perspective on life (at least to an exterior) so that everything they had in common before (fighting, alcohol, nihilism) is no longer present.
Ruth is having difficulty letting Billie adjust to that kind of dramatic personality change or even if she wants to.
I’m not even sure it’s a dramatic change in personality? I mean, maybe from Billie’s perspective. But Ruth’s always wanted to recover, it’s just that it used to seem impossible to her.
Billie put a lot of effort into helping Ruth turn things around, too. She was very pro-recovery until it started being her own recovery that they were talking about. Ruth could very well be experiencing a similar shock.
Her personality has *not* drastically changed. She is controlling her anger better, but she still has it. She still thinks pretty much the same about people as she did before, she is just managing it better. Her actions might have changed, but the underlying person is still the same.
Billie is not some unsung victim of Ruth’s improvement and desire to be respected like you keep acting like she is.
You’re comparing guns and ban as, and I hate bananas.
I don’t remember them doing that after they were a couple, and even, or rather especially then, they never let each other get away with anything. They demanded effort from each other.
Ruth treated Billie badly in the past and so Billie is justified in treating Ruth badly now. – Does not follow.
Ruth’s personality has changed drastically and so Billie is justified in treating Ruth badly. – Does not follow. (Also the premises is wrong. The only difference in Ruth that we have seen is an absence of the very worst of her depression. As we saw in her interaction with Amber, the niihilistic snark is still there.)
Having huge fights and then ignoring it gave Ivy anxiety, therefore it is bad for Ruth and Billie. – Does not follow. (They are very different people.)
I’m not gonna take bets, but Billie now has a confirmed superpower: sobering up at an inhumanly fast rate.
Let’s say that Lucy’s movie night began at 7:00 PM. Flight of the Navigator runs 90 minutes. So a little after 9:30 PM, Billie stumbles into her room in Forest clearly plastered, drinky bubbles around her head and all.
Now it’s what, at most 11:30 PM? And Billie is not only apparently sober, but she is so sober that Ruth can’t smell alcohol on her breath when they are nose to nose.
So remind me again, why is drinking a problem for Billie, as long as she doesn’t get behind the wheel of a car during the 90 minutes it takes her to completely sober up?
I don’t know why this irritates me so much when gross violations of the laws of physics don’t bother me in the least.
Anyway, yeah, DYW is pretty clearly gonna break them up in the next two or three strips.
I knew a guy who could go from blackout drunk to completely fine in 30 minutes. Obviously we still never let him drive but shit was scary
thejeff
Friend of mind back in college had what she described as 10 minutes of reserve sobriety: In a crisis the adrenaline would kick in and she’d be functional, hopefully long enough to deal with it, then the alcohol would take over again.
I suspect that’s what Billie used back at the party when she went from boozles and slurred speech to treating Joyce and checking her for injury in minutes.
Just a slight correction on your math, but if FotN was 90 minutes, Billie would stumble in right after 8:30pm, not 9:30.
King Daniel
Coupled with the “11:30” estimation, that would put this as being about three hours later.
Marsh Maryrose
You and Nono are right, and she would have had time to walk off the drinky bubbles. I withdraw my objections on that count, but I’m still not so sure about the alcohol breath. That comes from alcohol in the blood, and the liver just doesn’t metabolize alcohol all that quickly.
Liquid Len
True, but I’m sure Ruth suspects that Billie has been drinking, so if she noticed the booze-breath she probably didn’t feel the need to comment on it.
BBCC
Mint?
Liquid Len
Wonder if Ruth can tell the difference between Tic Tacs and Rumple Minz. 🙂
Marsh Maryrose
If you’ve ever had repeated close contact with someone who drinks a lot, the smell of alcohol breath is unmistakable. That smell doesn’t come from the booze itself. It comes from alcohol in the bloodstream being exhaled in vapor form through the lungs.
Trying to hide alcohol breath is like trying to hide cigarette breath. It only works if the person you’re talking to doesn’t know what it smells like.
BBCC
Fair enough. I have not had repeated close contact with someone who drinks a lot.
Marsh Maryrose
Years ago, I had a boss who would regularly show up at maybe 10:00 am, on those days when she didn’t just call in sick (she was supposed to be there at 8:00). Trust me, even at a normal conversational distance, you can smell it, and mints are not going to cover it up.
This was back in the day when reporting on your supervisor for something like that was unthinkable. Hopefully things have changed since then, but I’m guessing probably not as much as one would hope.
Next chapter Billie’s liver rips its way out of her chest and goes on a rampage in the nearest liquor store, drinking the entire stock and getting larger every minute.
Billie’s alcoholism is an element of her incredible toxicity. She doesn’t address her problems, she skipped class to get day drunk, she’s inviting her *recovering alcoholic* girlfriend to go drinking. It encapsulates pretty much every genuinely negative aspect of who Billie is as a person and driving her to make poor decision after poor decision, none of which have to do with being drunk and everything to do with her *desire* to be drunk.
And that’s why Billie’s drinking is a problem thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I suspect “completely sobering up” is not what’s happening. Really practiced at presenting herself as sober when she’s still drunk, but not completely smashed is more like it.
She’s down to baseline Billie level of drunk, that’s all.
Maybe she’s planning to surprise Ruth by going sober. If she fails, Ruth doesn’t have to know because Ruth wouldn’t expect it and would be saved from disappointment. That seems to align with Billie’s thinking.
Considering that she told Lucy it was probably the last time, this is probably the case. I’m unsure if it’ll be a SURPRISE but I’m fairly certain Billie is at the very least CONSIDERING sobering up for Ruth’s sake.
I’m not sure I’ll be commenting here going forward, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate various members of this comment section. I’m not gonna name names because I’m sure I’d leave people out, so just go ahead and assume this means you, person reading this.
179 thoughts on “Fights and lights”
Doctor_Who
“No I don’t want to get saké at McAwesome’s!”
“…I said sushi.”
“And my Billese to English translator caught it.”
Pablo360
“I’ll have you know, I’m not in the mood for salmon sushi anyway!”
“We both know that’s not what you mean.”
“But you’re the one who said sake!”
“I’d smack you if you weren’t right.”
Carms
This is very good, thankyou
thejeff
Do we actually know that McAwesome’s serves saké?
Or is this a post-last binge overture: I’m asking you out to a place without alcohol to show you I’m going to stop tempting you with it.
Schpoonman
Unfriendly reminder that when Ruth first tried to go sober Billie lied through her teeth for several days until Ruth caught her out-and-out in her lie.
This is performative so she can get Ruth “back,” nothing more.
thejeff
It’s certainly possible. I think this is different, at least as far it all being much more serious now.
That she was out on one last binge suggests that she at least is thinking about stopping, not just pretending.
She is very likely to fail of course, but I’m not convinced it’s all performative.
All of which of course is sort of beside the point: Even if it’s performative, that means she’s not asking Ruth to go out to the drinking place. If McAwesome’s does serve sake, then it’s not even performative.
AnvilPro
All of the Lights is the best Kanye song
C.T Phipps
My wife and I come from very different backgrounds regarding arguments. In my family, it’s just the way you talk to get a word in edgewise. Where she was from, you either agreed all the time or you were a broken couple. It’s led to a lot of confusion when I don’t even remember a fight ten minutes later. We’re celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary this year.
Jenny Islander
This isn’t a difference in communication styles. Billie has outed herself as an unsafe person for Ruth to be around.
SillyGoose
Although for a moment there, my ever-optimist heart thought she had come to apologize.
Zaxares
Just make sure to apologize if your wife looks upset. 😉 She might understand on an intellectual level that it’s just how you were raised, but it doesn’t negate any hurt feelings on her part. Over many years, this can lead to a slowly building resentment that eats away at a marriage, the literal straw that breaks the camel’s back, even though you might never event realize it. This is what happened to my parents. My mother is extremely good at arguing and debating and was always taking my father’s eventual silence for assent. It wasn’t. He just knew that he couldn’t win in an argument and decided to “give way” for the sake of peace. Well, after years and years of giving way, he finally decided he had enough of his opinions “not mattering”. And by then it was too late. The damage had been done.
Nono
You only feel better right before it gets worse.
Blazing Ace
I don’t like Billie
FacelessDeviant
I think Billie doesn’t like Billie either.
torrent29
I had hope for her earlier in the series, but since moving to that new dorm… well its not gone well.
jeffepp
Aaand, haw much did you drink, Billie?
William Leonard Reese Jr.
Hm. . . . She LOOKS sober right now. Is this still the same night as the movie night?
C.T Phipps
From the family of alcoholics:
“If you need to get sober quickly, the best way is by inducing vomiting.”
-actual quote
Needfuldoer
I doubt she’s completely sober already, but her tolerance is higher than someone who doesn’t drink constantly so she doesn’t show it as much. If any of the other main characters drank as much as Billie probably did today (to get to the point where we saw her at movie night), they’d be flat on their ass.
Neeks
Also, with alcoholism, sometimes you NEED (well, “need”) booze to be able to appear normal. I’m fairly certain she’s just less drunk than earlier and Actually Sober Billie will look quite a bit closer to death.
Sunny
That’s after years of drinking, though. When you get severe withdrawal symptoms (like hallucinations and tremors) when you don’t drink. Billie is definitely not yet at that stage, she hasn’t had enough time nor has she been drinking enough and regularly enough.
Alcohol is bad, but it doesn’t get that bad that fast.
thejeff
Ruth’s shown withdrawal symptoms when she’s first quit. I suspect in both their cases though, it’s more likely a bad hangover that they normally just drink more to mask.
BBCC
TBF, the first time we saw Ruth was three days later. Is it possible to still be hungover after three days? Genuine question, I do not know. I think it is likely to be actual withdrawal symptoms.
Frankly, even mild withdrawal bites. My only personal experience with it though is coming off seizure meds I’d been on for 16 years, but it was unfun. Ruth’s withdrawal was shorter (so far as I can tell) but she’s also (presumably) not been drinking for 16 years.
William Leonard Reese Jr.
. . . .Billie no. Ruth yes. Billie No.
On the plus side at least we know that Billie is a quick study. Picking locks is a incredibly valuable skill. Just as the Bethesda Murder Hobo.
Makkabee
The Bethesda Murder Hobo is the official state bird of Maryland.
Deanatay
And of West Virginia!
… Well, the post-apocalyptic one.
Clif
This comment section is infinitely educational.
Keulen
Damn it, this is gonna turn into another fight.
C.T Phipps
I actually sympathize with Billie to an extent here. Ruth has completely changed her personality and perspective on life (at least to an exterior) so that everything they had in common before (fighting, alcohol, nihilism) is no longer present.
Ruth is having difficulty letting Billie adjust to that kind of dramatic personality change or even if she wants to.
Clif
I believe the nihilism is still there.
ShinyNeen
I’m not even sure it’s a dramatic change in personality? I mean, maybe from Billie’s perspective. But Ruth’s always wanted to recover, it’s just that it used to seem impossible to her.
Billie put a lot of effort into helping Ruth turn things around, too. She was very pro-recovery until it started being her own recovery that they were talking about. Ruth could very well be experiencing a similar shock.
Sam
Her personality has *not* drastically changed. She is controlling her anger better, but she still has it. She still thinks pretty much the same about people as she did before, she is just managing it better. Her actions might have changed, but the underlying person is still the same.
Billie is not some unsung victim of Ruth’s improvement and desire to be respected like you keep acting like she is.
Stephen Bierce
We won’t need bright lights
No, no we won’t
We’re gonna make our own lightning!–Neil Diamond
JetstreamGW
Well… I mean… she’s being honest? I guess?
C.T Phipps
Billie has a point. Ruth used to physically threaten, yell at her, and proclaim she wanted her to die with her.
What’s so special about this argument by comparison.
Zach
You’re comparing guns and ban as, and I hate bananas.
I don’t remember them doing that after they were a couple, and even, or rather especially then, they never let each other get away with anything. They demanded effort from each other.
ivy
Ah, yes. This looks like the way my dad deals with having huge fights with people, especially with his wife and offspring.
Hint: It doesn’t work and in fact has given me a portion of my existing anxiety.
C.T Phipps
Again, Ruth used to yell and do much worse to Billie as part of their daily relationship.
Ruth can’t actually act like her current personality is the normal one in their relationship.
ivy
At no point did I say Ruth was an innocent party so I don’t know where this defensiveness is coming from
Clif
Ruth treated Billie badly in the past and so Billie is justified in treating Ruth badly now. – Does not follow.
Ruth’s personality has changed drastically and so Billie is justified in treating Ruth badly. – Does not follow. (Also the premises is wrong. The only difference in Ruth that we have seen is an absence of the very worst of her depression. As we saw in her interaction with Amber, the niihilistic snark is still there.)
Having huge fights and then ignoring it gave Ivy anxiety, therefore it is bad for Ruth and Billie. – Does not follow. (They are very different people.)
BBCC
Can we take bets on whether Willis is gonna break up two couples in one storyline NOW? 😛
Spruce Goose
I’ll get a piece of that action. I believe in the mad lad
Clif
Not going to bet, but I’d be happy to hold the money. 😉
Marsh Maryrose
I’m not gonna take bets, but Billie now has a confirmed superpower: sobering up at an inhumanly fast rate.
Let’s say that Lucy’s movie night began at 7:00 PM. Flight of the Navigator runs 90 minutes. So a little after 9:30 PM, Billie stumbles into her room in Forest clearly plastered, drinky bubbles around her head and all.
Now it’s what, at most 11:30 PM? And Billie is not only apparently sober, but she is so sober that Ruth can’t smell alcohol on her breath when they are nose to nose.
So remind me again, why is drinking a problem for Billie, as long as she doesn’t get behind the wheel of a car during the 90 minutes it takes her to completely sober up?
I don’t know why this irritates me so much when gross violations of the laws of physics don’t bother me in the least.
Anyway, yeah, DYW is pretty clearly gonna break them up in the next two or three strips.
Jay
I knew a guy who could go from blackout drunk to completely fine in 30 minutes. Obviously we still never let him drive but shit was scary
thejeff
Friend of mind back in college had what she described as 10 minutes of reserve sobriety: In a crisis the adrenaline would kick in and she’d be functional, hopefully long enough to deal with it, then the alcohol would take over again.
I suspect that’s what Billie used back at the party when she went from boozles and slurred speech to treating Joyce and checking her for injury in minutes.
Nono
Just a slight correction on your math, but if FotN was 90 minutes, Billie would stumble in right after 8:30pm, not 9:30.
King Daniel
Coupled with the “11:30” estimation, that would put this as being about three hours later.
Marsh Maryrose
You and Nono are right, and she would have had time to walk off the drinky bubbles. I withdraw my objections on that count, but I’m still not so sure about the alcohol breath. That comes from alcohol in the blood, and the liver just doesn’t metabolize alcohol all that quickly.
Liquid Len
True, but I’m sure Ruth suspects that Billie has been drinking, so if she noticed the booze-breath she probably didn’t feel the need to comment on it.
BBCC
Mint?
Liquid Len
Wonder if Ruth can tell the difference between Tic Tacs and Rumple Minz. 🙂
Marsh Maryrose
If you’ve ever had repeated close contact with someone who drinks a lot, the smell of alcohol breath is unmistakable. That smell doesn’t come from the booze itself. It comes from alcohol in the bloodstream being exhaled in vapor form through the lungs.
Trying to hide alcohol breath is like trying to hide cigarette breath. It only works if the person you’re talking to doesn’t know what it smells like.
BBCC
Fair enough. I have not had repeated close contact with someone who drinks a lot.
Marsh Maryrose
Years ago, I had a boss who would regularly show up at maybe 10:00 am, on those days when she didn’t just call in sick (she was supposed to be there at 8:00). Trust me, even at a normal conversational distance, you can smell it, and mints are not going to cover it up.
This was back in the day when reporting on your supervisor for something like that was unthinkable. Hopefully things have changed since then, but I’m guessing probably not as much as one would hope.
Opus the Poet
Next chapter Billie’s liver rips its way out of her chest and goes on a rampage in the nearest liquor store, drinking the entire stock and getting larger every minute.
Ferret
Billie’s alcoholism is an element of her incredible toxicity. She doesn’t address her problems, she skipped class to get day drunk, she’s inviting her *recovering alcoholic* girlfriend to go drinking. It encapsulates pretty much every genuinely negative aspect of who Billie is as a person and driving her to make poor decision after poor decision, none of which have to do with being drunk and everything to do with her *desire* to be drunk.
And that’s why Billie’s drinking is a problem thanks for coming to my TED talk.
thejeff
I suspect “completely sobering up” is not what’s happening. Really practiced at presenting herself as sober when she’s still drunk, but not completely smashed is more like it.
She’s down to baseline Billie level of drunk, that’s all.
Clif
Agreed.
AntJ
Maybe she’s planning to surprise Ruth by going sober. If she fails, Ruth doesn’t have to know because Ruth wouldn’t expect it and would be saved from disappointment. That seems to align with Billie’s thinking.
BarerMender
That’s what I was thinking. The first part. Billie will eat the sushi without the saki. Then they’ll talk.
Laladoria
Considering that she told Lucy it was probably the last time, this is probably the case. I’m unsure if it’ll be a SURPRISE but I’m fairly certain Billie is at the very least CONSIDERING sobering up for Ruth’s sake.
mister gray
I really hope they can work through this but I feel Billie will destroy the ship with her stubbornness and love of booze.
Illithid
Sometimes what used to spark an argument, years later only provokes a shrug. Getting through those years can be dicey, sometimes. 26 and counting.
C.T Phipps
I expect Billie to destroy her relationship with Ruth by eventually admitting she prefers the Old Ruth.
Yumi
I’m not sure I’ll be commenting here going forward, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate various members of this comment section. I’m not gonna name names because I’m sure I’d leave people out, so just go ahead and assume this means you, person reading this.
BBCC
Everything okay?
ShinyNeen
Yeah, this is a little abrupt. You don’t owe us an explanation, of course, just… color me concerned?
Deadjolras
We haven’t interacted at all, but I want you to know I like reading your comments and I’ll miss seeing you around. Take care!
Jay
We didnt talk much but you will be missed. Good luck in the future
Delicious Taffy