140

Afloat
Posted on June 17, 2023 by David M Willis

140 thoughts on “Afloat”

  1. Ana Chronistic

    half surprised Joyce DOES want to keep them, I gave away half my art I didn’t want to keep around anymore (not sure where the rest is)

    1. Yotomoe

      Couldnt be me. I still have all my old comics from middleschool. Most are in tatters and nigh unreadable but I cannot bring myself to get rid of them. Still have all my old sketchbooks too.

      1. Leorale

        I get rid of my paper drawings. It’s fine. I own the means of production.

        1. Leorale

          Oh but if I really like it, such as if I did something really new in it, I might take a picture before I chuck the original. This way, I can keep moving to new places without drowning in paper.

      2. Sirksome

        I donated all my old comics. A library somewhere has the full run of Ultimate Soider-Man paperbacks in moderate condition. I can never keep up old sketchbooks though. My mom kept some but most end up lost or dumped.

      3. Clif

        You can store a lot of old documents in a surprisingly small amount of digital storage.

        1. Alan in DC

          True dat. I recently digitized several dozen boxes of reel to reel tape held for some 40 years by the family. The entire mess fits on two DVD discs, which is rather humbling.

      4. davidbreslin101

        Musician rather than artist here. I bitterly regret that I only kept one of the manuscript books I wrote my janky teenage piano music in. I recently managed to get 3 decent pieces out of that one book through drastic rewrites.

        1. Durandal_1707

          Plenty of famous composers have done exactly that as well. (for example, Prokofiev’s Third and Fourth Piano Sonatas, both subtitled “From Old Notebooks”).

    2. Bittersweet

      I have like a weird but severe aversion to chunking drawings. I make eye contact and my brain is like “this is a person?” and then I basically have a Toy Story moment where I can’t bring myself to throw away my horrible doodle from ten years ago because it might have some sort of weird drawing soul and I can’t let it spend its life in a dumpster.

      I doubt that’s what is going on with Joyce here, but maybe there’s a tamer cousin of that anxiety that may be manifesting about it?

      1. RoyanRannedos

        Is that some kind of processing disorder connected to the uncanny valley? Interesting. My separation anxiety after my parents’ divorce was connected to a high-demand religious upbringing, but instead of drawing dino-tamer Peter, I tried to be perfect so I could resurrect my family when God tried me like Abraham and called them home. It’s OCD called scrupulosity, and it was hell.

    3. Kyrik Michalowski

      I went to the extreme of not wanting it around, and burned most of my drawings, sketches and poems. I kept like 3 or 4, and those were only because someone else helped with it, and I would feel guilty throwing it away.

    4. Dawn T

      It’s SO common for autistic people to be super sentimental and very attached to their old stuff and have trouble getting rid of it for reasons they can’t explain. I feel this way a lot

      1. StClair

        wait, you’re saying that’s a specific/common ND thing and not just… everyone?

        1. AY

          Specifically what’s different when it comes to this kind of thing is how intense these attributes are. So everyone feels these things, yeah! But if you’re wired differently in some way, that feeling might be 10x more extreme than, say, an allistic person might have. Not just autism related, ofc. Look at hoarders… They’re often at the complete mercy of their condition, with no say in the matter without help.

    5. Mollyscribbles

      It might not be the sort of thing she wants to keep long-term but the emotional fallout from sorting through everything might not be something she wants to take on at the moment.

      actually ask Dina if she can help out. She might find the absurdly inaccurate dinosaur information interesting from a sociological perspective to help her pinpoint areas she needs to correct Becky’s knowledge on.

    6. Needfuldoer

      I tossed most of my old creative output, out of s h a m e.

    7. Lysbeth

      I tossed out my old name, can definitely relate

      1. morleuca

        If it don’t fit, it’s gotta go.

      2. Ana Chronistic

        name, fuck that, I have at LEAST 50 I used (maybe not legally, but definitely for “this is me” personas)

    8. Mark

      Or maybe she needs more than a few minutes to go through six tubs of documents and whatnot, and decide what to keep.

      1. Ana Chronistic

        I mean, they’re all essentially the same drawing as per her description?

    9. Angel

      well they are still her drawings as opposed to some ‘gifts’ that her moms guilting her into keeping. tho idk how she’d feel about taking pics of all of it and saving it digitally and then recycling/burning all of the phsycial papers

  2. DarkoNeko

    it’s ok if he’s riding a dinosaur, the man itself is bible-accurate !

  3. NGPZ

    Careful mentioning fire-breathing Parasaurolophus Joyce.

    You might just summon Dina!

    Wonder what Carol would make of her… 0_0

    1. NGPZ

      Wait I meant Linda, but yeah her too.

      1. Clif

        I think you actually do mean Carol.

    2. Doctor_Who

      If they ever made physical contact, they would mutually annihilate like matter and antimatter.

    3. True Survivor

      Triassic, Cretaceous Extinct Mega-faunas
      Green triceratops pajamas

      Cereal, Chicken Nuggets, Teeth like Knives
      Hungry hat to give four eyes

      Grid, Excavate, be sure to cast
      An A+ in Bio-class

      Velociraptor, Quetzalcoatlus, play pretend
      A Becky to defend

      Death and Sediment, Preserve in a Moor
      Call behind the door

      Bob Peck, Amber check, friend of Joe
      We Summon You Dina, Come on Lets GO!!!!

      1. NGPZ

        ???

      2. Mark

        My brain wants to fit this to the tune of “We Didn’t Start the Fire” but that’s clearly not what you were thinking.

  4. Shitbird

    … I’m assuming we mean riding in the context of like, riding it’s back. I’m really, really hoping that is the context.

    1. Taffy

      Yeah, her mom let her keep interspecies human/dinosaur pornography in the house, that’s remotely plausible.

      1. Alongcameaspider

        Hey, we don’t know if she looked at every single thing Joyce drew

        1. Taffy

          I s’pose that could be the case, but Carol strikes me as the type of parent who thinks “boundary” is a cuss word. I don’t think there’s anywhere Joyce could stick something and expect her mom not to find it.

        2. Shitbird

          She has admitted to writing tons of smut, you never know with this Fundie types

        3. Taffy

          I don’t have perfect recall or a way to re-read the series at all, and these pages aren’t tagged, but I thought Joyce’s smut was confined to her Julia Grey stories and stuff she immediately deleted.

        4. Daibhid C

          Yeah, I think it was a Paetron strip, but I distinctly recall Amber teasing her about sexy Julia Gray stories, and when Joyce protests that there aren’t any Amber says “Because you immediately delete them”, then as Joyce’s brain explodes, explains that it’s like talking to herself in high school.

          (I know, I’ve previously “distinctly recalled” strips that it turns out I dreamt, but I’m pretty sure on this one.)

      2. Mollyscribbles

        there’s always the option that Joyce’s artwork was crude enough and her knowledge of what sex involved vague enough that her mother didn’t realize what it was supposed to be.

        1. Taffy

          “Joyce, honey, stop drawing Jesus giving holy belly-rubs to that weird horse and come eat.”

    2. Thag Simmons

      i mean from context we can make some reasonable assumptions

    3. davidbreslin101

      “Why is St Peter rubbing the dinosaur’s belly in this one?”
      “AAAAAAAAHHHHHH Don’t look at that!”

  5. Sirksome

    I mean you’re parents are pretty shit too Sal and you turned out passably normal.

    1. PigmyWurm

      I think for a long time Sal was actively trying to avoid normal.

      1. Mark

        Interesting way to express it. Thanks.

        I sometimes get the feeling there are people who think there are two normals. One is going along with the way things are, and the other is rebelling against everything (possibly including rebellion). And you have to choose one or the other.

  6. Kyrik Michalowski

    Sal is trying to meet Joyce halfway on this “normal” thing, and I for one appreciate it. I would have given up by now.

  7. HueSatLight

    tempted to change my vote for bonus strip, but I don’t think Peter riding a fire breathing dinosaur really would support a whole strip, we already got the punchline here.

    1. Thag Simmons

      You could probably build a strip around that drawing.

      1. Thag Simmons

        “Dina talking about that drawing could probably fill a strip” is probably a better way to say that, whatever.

    2. HueSatLight

      oops https://www.tumblr.com/huesatlight/720352646527057920/apostle-peter-riding-a-fire-breathing

      1. Sirksome

        This made me realize a fire breathing parasaurolophus is basically a giant charmeleon . Did Joyce know about Pokémon? Was Pokémon allowed?

        1. HueSatLight

          This is all I could remember regarding pokemon and the church. https://www.dumbingofage.com/pokeman/

  8. RassilonTDavros

    If only Joyce had drawn Peter riding a fire-breathing Pachycephalosaurus instead.

  9. True Survivor

    These Hive-works ads are so weird, in that they are standardized and thus sometimes become ads for a webcomic within said webcomic. I mean the Dumbing of Age ad is very nice looking and well done, but I’m only seeing it because I’m rapidly reloading the page waiting for the daily update, like a opiate-addicted mouse pressing the button for his next fix. No matter how nice, an ads not going to get me more interested in reading Dumbing of Age.

    1. Mark

      Advertising is a strange state of mind. I’m forever getting a burst of ad.s for the thing I just bought. Like, guys, you know I already have this, do you think I’m going to buy it harder or something?

  10. Alongcameaspider

    I’m not sure if Dina would be a good choice to show those drawings to, but I kind of want to see her reaction to them

    1. Net-Zero Joeyce Shipper (no engine, slowly following the current)

      YES. Would be a beautiful source of lower-stakes drama in this nail-bitey story arc.

    2. Wraithy2773

      I can picture Dina ranting for several panels about everything that’s wrong about the picture.

      And then Joyce trying to take it back sheepishly and Dina refusing to let go of it :D.

  11. BBCC

    It’s what little sisters do, Sal. And you’re doing great big sistering here.

  12. Derek

    this comic and Shortpacked have mentioned “picture bible accuracy” like there’s some kind of definitive edition of illustrated bibles, but IRL there’s many many many versions of illustrated bibles for children, and even some with the same drawings as a previous version but with different colouring.

    I assume Joyce would know this? Or is she just assuming everyone had access to the same edition she did as a child?

    1. Doopyboop

      I think she’s assuming everyone had the same edition she had. For instance, this was the one I had: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/q34AAOSwPPVj1qsQ/s-l1600.jpg

    2. David M Willis

      She’s referring to the one literally named “Picture Bible.“

      1. Peep

        Oh hey, Peter is even right there on the cover!

      2. morleuca

        Oh my gods, I’ve read that one!

      3. Derek

        huh I was about to say I remember otherwise but after looking it up apparently mine had the word “Catholic” in the title, which I never noticed, here it is

  13. Warcodered

    Peter was awesome like that.

  14. Van Jealous

    Time for another Rich Mullins vision cameo!!!!!!

  15. nobodybasically

    OK so I know many young earth creationists believe dinosaurs were a real thing that lived alongside humans, but do some of them legit believe they could breath fire?

    1. David M Willis

      because they have to pretend the existence of dinosaurs on a post-flood world is the explanation for the myths of fire-breathing dragons, because science or something

      1. Rose by Any Other Name

        … that is some of the most wonderfully back-asswards logic I have ever heard.

        1. NGPZ

          Yeah apparently there ARE fire-breathing dragons in the Bible, like I think Leviathan was based on the Nile Crocodile, and also Satan in the Book of Revelations?

      2. Taffy

        That one in particular is really strange to me. They couldn’t just say “Yeah, that’s a story somebody made up on a particularly boring Tuesday”? “Actually it was a demon from Hell”, anything? There are so many extra steps here.

        1. NGPZ

          Still easier for a fundie than realizing that what they were taught growing up are lies. 0_0

        2. Taffy

          Everyone else has to learn that, what makes them so special?

        3. HueSatLight

          Acknowledging people’s ability to just make up stories is threatening to the “The Bible must be entirely literally true” mindset.

        4. Taffy

          Does it? I can know about and be aware of apples as a Real Thing, without thinking there’s a real fruit that can electrocute people if I throw it at them just because I’ve played The Legend of Zelda.

        5. HueSatLight

          Yes. Because you are a generally reasonable person, you hear a story with mythic elements, you’re mostly going to recognize those elements and typically categorize that story as not literally true. Someone who feels compelled to categorize every Biblical story as literally true will need to quash their doubts and one way it’s done is by convincing themselves that people are incapable of making up mythic elements for stories.

        6. Taffy

          That sounds like such a boring, exhausting way to live, and also simultaneously terrifying on an existential level.

        7. HueSatLight

          [LeVar Burton voice] but you don’t have to take my word for it
          https://christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-dragon1.html

        8. Mturtle7

          Oh that was a very nice and succinct explanation. I was genuinely kind of baffled by why Creationists specifically would believe this, but now it makes a lot more sense. A horrible, cynical, sense that makes me sad for humanity as a whole, but sense nevertheless.

        9. Mark

          It’s uncharitable of me, but I sometimes think there are just some who have a low-wattage imagination and can’t imagine playing with ideas. So when something comes along that contradicts what they already (think they) know, they have to attack it, because There Can Be Only One.

        10. pig

          That’s not true, in my experience. I was raised in a church that taught biblical literalism and that’s just… Not true. Maybe it is for some people, but “people make things up” is such a basic fact of existence. There are hoaxes, fictional stories, people and politicians who lie to you to get you to do what they want. It’s kind of infantalizing to generalize like this.

        11. HueSatLight

          It’s not your experience, but it does happen (see link above). miss me with “it’s infantalizing”.

        12. Mturtle7

          My view on this is that some people can easily accept something as basic fact in the present, while simultaneously assuming that it couldn’t possibly have been true in Olden Times, or for a specific subset of Olden Times which are considered culturally transcendent in some way. Like how creationists will agree that “micro-evolution” is obviously possible, but “macro-evolution” is just as obviously impossible.

        13. Needfuldoer

          Because that would plant a seed of doubt, of course. “If somebody just made that part up, what else did somebody ‘just’ make up?”

    2. McNitz

      I’ve got the “Dinosaurs By Design” book that helpfully details how the parasaurolophus has a hollow chamber on it’s head and that probably means it could mix chemicals to make fire like a bombardier beetle!.Got to come up with a good apologetic for assuming the mention of a scaly beast snorting fire in Job is scientifically accurate since every word of the Bible is the literal and inerrant word of God!

      1. Uly

        I’ve got a hollow chamber on my head, in fact, I have several! But they only fill up with mucus. How can I upgrade my sinuses to the fire version?

        1. Miri

          I’ve had sinus headaches where they’ve FELT like they were full of fire and that was bad enough…

      2. Miri

        Which is what Joyce believed… Dina was upset

      3. S.R.

        We used to have that same book. I think that was more a guess than an “oh this is definitely what they did”. And you gotta admit, out of all the stuff in that book, “maybe this one reptile could do a bombardier beetle trick” is one of the most plausible. If still absurd.

    3. Tan

      See the hovertext and comments of https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/parasaurolophus/

  16. Raven

    I’m surprised Joyce was allowed to draw a parasaraulophus. Guess her church ascribes to the “dinosaurs existed alongside humans” school of thought instead of the “dinosaurs are made up by Satan to trick us” one

    1. S.R.

      As far as I know, “dinosaurs are real but the timeline is wrong” is a more common belief than “dinosaurs didn’t exist actually”.

  17. Taffy

    “Normal” is a social construct anyway, like gender or nylon.

    1. NGPZ

      Yeah, being “normal” is Privilege, and in fact is a big part of what makes privilege privilege.

      1. Allandrel

        Hence the many people who object to terms like hetero, cis, neurotypical, etc.

        “I’m not (whatever), I’m NORMAL!”

        You’re why we came up with these terms, Janice.

        1. Taffy

          Fuckin’ Janice. Thinks she’s so great with her statistically probable straightness and her lack of gender disagreement and her overall ability to get a job that won’t fire her for talking about Mighty Ducks: The Animated Series every fucking shift. I bet she drives a dark green sedan with a fuzzy pink steering wheel cover and Tinker Bell seat covers. I bet she can walk from Point A to Point B with her naturally-born legs and it doesn’t even hurt or exhaust her at all. I bet when she listens to music, you’re not surprised by the song, genre, or artist she picks. I bet she takes pictures of her food even though it doesn’t even look neat cuz it’s a bowl of macaroni and cheese made as the box instructed.

          Fuckin’ Janice.

    2. Angel

      other than liking danny i wouldn’t expect sal to rly care if someone’s ‘normal’ anyways as long as she’s not being preached at

  18. adam black

    Shes got tO give some to Beccky and Dina as an Ironic gift.

    1. Alongcameaspider

      What would outrage Dina more? The implications that Dinosaurs could breath fire or the implications that humans and dinosaurs lived alongside each other?

      1. Taffy

        Dina’s petty selective outrage about unrealistic dinosaurs could lead to another in-comic death, so it’s probably better to simply burn the images before she can so much as learn they exist.

        1. Needfuldoer

          Her eye starts twitching when she hears “yabba dabba doo”.

        2. Taffy

          “This is bullshit, Becky. There is no way a Telmatosaurus would ever allow itself to be used as a pace car!”

        3. Needfuldoer

          “Eh, it’s a living.”

      2. Mark

        For extra fun, remind her that humans and dinosaurs live alongside each other today. Tweet tweet!

  19. Suet

    Joyce may have been shaped by her parents’ religion, but her view of the world would always be different than theirs’.

    You’re no liar, you just forget to watch the other shoe drop

  20. brionl

    Didn’t the dinosaurs get wiped out in Noah’s flood? Having a Disciple riding one isn’t canon.

    1. Mollyscribbles

      Noah put two of EVERY creature on the ark(at least going by the Creation Museum take on theology). Most of them still died in the flood to create fossils, but a few managing to stick around until 2000 years ago is acceptable.

    2. Council

      It was canon enough for actual priests to write down, among other things, the Golden Legend. Wherein, Saint Martha(who, mind you, lived in the Holy Land as per the Bible) comes to France for some reason, tames the Tarrasque(not the D&D one) by throwing holy water on it, then leads it around on a rope and leash.

      Christians can be every bit as fanfic-y as any other religion or mythology. You just gotta dig a bit.

      1. Taffy

        The real tarrasque is more interesting than the D&D one anyhow, because at least it actually got confronted. Nobody’s ever fought a tarrasque in their campaigns, it’s a meme.

        1. Council

          If you needed to become a saint, shake your holy symbol at it to defeat it, and getting to keep it around as a pet was the reward, a lot more people Would run it!

      2. StClair

        the whole Mormon thing, in particular, has always made me think “What if Jesus came to America and went to high school?”

        1. Peep

          Mormonism aside, I’m 1 million % sure that exact premise can be found fulfilled on AO3

      3. darkgloomie

        It actually is the D&D one- or rather that one is based on the french legend

  21. Victor Riley

    You know, Joyce… this might be a good time to learn the skill of “letting go” of some Art out there.

    Or at least scan it and then get rid of the physical.

    1. Needfuldoer

      She’s got a scanner, that’s how she’s submitting her comics to the paper.

      It’s a flatbed, though. They’re good for quality, but if you’re after throughput you need one of those document-feeder scanners that work like backward printers. (One of those was very helpful when I worked through my paperwork backlog.)

  22. bagge

    I have NO clue is Joyce is doing a bit here or not.

  23. ValdVin

    I’m sorta hoping Joyce didn’t discover fan fiction while under the throes of Bibleman.

  24. JV

    How are Joyce’s siblings handling all this?

    1. Needfuldoer

      My guesses:

      John: Blaming everything on Hank.
      Jordan: Ambivalent, if Jocelyn’s keeping him in the loop.
      Jocelyne: Upset but unsurprised.

      1. Mark

        For some reason I have gotten the notion that We Don’t Talk About Jordan because he converted to some other faith. So I figure he’s doing whatever such believers do in these circumstances.

        Although, now that I’ve written this, I wonder if Joyce has just set her foot on the path that Jordan has already followed, and that is why Carol’s mind seized up.

        1. Needfuldoer

          That’s been my headcanon for a while now: Jordan went low/no-contact after either converting or stepping away from the family fundamentalism once he got a taste of the outside world and saw his upbringing from a new perspective. He may still have limited contact with Jocelyne since he’d perceive her as the most reasonable sibling. (Remember she said their parents like her best because they “know the least about” her; Carol was the nucleus of the extremism, Hank was still following Carol, John was John, and Joyce was still a little Carol clone.) She may not be out to him yet, though. Joyce is following in Jordan’s footsteps without even realizing it.

          I really hope he gets some screen time someday.

        2. TerribleTransit

          Jocelyne said she thought she was the only Brown who didn’t toe the party line, so if your theory about Jordan is true it means he probably hasn’t been keeping in touch, or at least not to the level of meaningful conversations about topics.

        3. Needfuldoer

          That could also be a “don’t tell Joyce in case she’s like John and mom” situation.

        4. TerribleTransit

          Given the entire context of that conversation being her fighting with John about her mom… I doubt that’s the case. I guess you could read it as Jocelyne meaning “I thought I was the only one for a long time, but then Jordan broke ranks, and now you are the third of us” but that also seems like a stretch.

        5. Bittersweet

          Jordan might’ve changed their last name (either due to marriage or just that degree of done with the bloodline). That would also work with keeping in partial contact with Jocelyne.

    2. Huttj

      How many of them know? Would Jocelyne at least not have texted Joyce?

      1. HueSatLight

        She called, a week before this. https://www.dumbingofage.com/scanner/

  25. Yeet

    do we get to see these drawings of peter riding a parasaurolophus?
    because honestly that sounds sick as fuck
    I do not have to hand it to them but the creationists kind of went off with this idea in an aesthetic/awesome sense

  26. Plaaaa

    That’s the drawback of having a dozen kids. It’s impossible to devote enough time to 100% brainwash them all.

  27. wakeangel2001

    I don’t think the church is going to recover, not only did they lose money posting that bail, but they had a major civil suit because the guy they bailed out immediately went on to attempt kidnapping again, got involved in organized crime, and resulted in the deaths of 3 people, including an innocent college student. Not only will they lose that bail money, they also have a ton of legal fees to pay AND the massive scandal is likely to drive out most of the parishioners who aren’t insane extremists like Joyce’s mom. I don’t think they’re going to use that money to save the church, they’re going to pocket it so they have something to run off with when they shut the place down.

    1. UnDrewsual

      I don’t think they can be sued. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think the person/organization that pays the bail is legally responsible for the individual’s actions afterward unless the person was placed in their custody. Which he wouldn’t have been if they were paying bail.

      But this is a fundie church. I’m sure they may have lost some folks, but I’m willing to bet a majority of them have already rationalized paying the bail and refuse to see any connection between that and what happened after. (probably a lot of claims of “God’s will” and blaming people’s “sinfulness”)

      1. spriteless aunty

        Well, as the sane people leave, like Joyce’s dad, those who remain are further from sane. I’d say it will get worse before it gets better, but that would be hard.

      2. HueSatLight

        lawsuits are different than criminal liability. Besides, it wouldn’t take winning the suit. If the suit and kidnapping was what came up when googling the church, that’s going to make retention and recruitment tougher.

      3. S.R.

        I’m pretty sure the folks whose job it is to keep dangerous people from getting out of jail are the folks who set or deny bail in the first place, not anyone who happens to pay it.

  28. Stephen Nedland

    Hey, if keeping your childhood drawings, of one of Jesus’ Disciples, riding a fire-breathing dinosaur, is not considered, “normal”, then I never want to be.

  29. Viktoria

    “I think you should be proud of not being worse than just deeply introverted and socially maladjusted.”
    — The Wee Free Men by Terry Pratchett
    Saw this, thought of Joyce.

    And everyone else.

  30. Tan

    Is anyone else finding the comments “stuck”? As I am about to post this, it’s showing the last comment as 1:47pm, almost 12 hours ago, despite multiple refreshes, clearing cache, and even trying a different browser. I am 500% certain that is not the most recent comment. Same thing happened earlier, I posted a reply to something that, after refreshing, did not have replies, yet when my reply went up it suddenly had a dozen other replies ahead of mine. I am posting this half in hopes it will be seen to be fixed, and half because I’m curious if it will show newer comments

    1. woobie

      I also have not seen mine yet from last night. Akismet glitch?

  31. Felian

    How has no one mentioned the Chuck Tingle book that’s featuring a parasaurolophus? 😀

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