No, ULTIMATE Mike would be he inexplicably, impossibly wakes up after ten years in a coma, and proceeds to troll all his former friends in their post-college lives.
“Hey, Joyce – or should I say ‘Mrs Rozenthal’? Didn’t take YOU long to move on, did it?”
Needfuldoer
He doesn’t verify all these little digs, yet somehow they’re all completely accurate.
Veering dangerously into territory I’m only allowed in Fantasy Land, in the dead of night with the lights off.
Let’s return to IRL and have Greta Th. be in charge off the Natural Guard.
Needfuldoer
All in favor of renaming the National Park Service Rangers to the Natural Guard?
Roborat
If you are recruiting for that, I strongly suggest you make sure they are at least 18.
Man, I honestly do sorta think about dying a martyr just to spite people who talk trash about me.
“That yoto is a perverted asshole”.
“Oh yeah, well he died saving orphans from a burning building and donated all of his life savings to charity.” ”
“But he was such a dick to me online”
“Yeah but he was like donating to caused and battling his inner demons. He was a saint”
God that’d be good revenge.
Becky: He trolled her
Hank: He liked fishing?
Becky: He was kinda like an edgelord jackass
Hank: He liked extreme sport with donkies?
Becky: Totally lit. Extreme kleenex
Hank: I know words…
And let ye who is without mother, cast the first nickel.
Deanatay
Our Edgelord, who art in Heaven
Hallowed be thy spite
Give us this day, our daily troll
And rib us for our trespasses
As we rib those who trespass against us
And lead us not into boredom
But deliver us from complacency
For thine is the anger, and the contempt, and the spite forever,
Amen.
Thing is, while Mike could be an asshole, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him make a nasty remark that wasn’t also a genuine criticism of a someone’s personal failing. He would point out flaws or bad habits that, if they were addressed, would make people better off for having addressed them.
He was a huge dick about it, but I wonder if on some level he was also trying to point out shortcomings to people so that they could deal with them. Maybe he wasn’t even aware of it, but maybe he hurt because, deep down, he cared.
I mean, aside from all the mom-fucking cracks, obviously.
He routinely plays on people’s insecurities, not just “personal failings” but percieved personal failings. Remember the time he took photos of Dorothy and Walky in bed together and pretended to extort her? Or literally all of his interactions with Ethan?
Like how he told Ethan to pretend to be straight just to be happy.
Nono
I think that was a jab to try to drag Ethan out of his funk in a way, though. ‘Just imagine, if only you pretended to be straight, you could still be in a sham relationship with Amber.’ But Ethan was too ‘oh yes, that logic makes perfect sense!’ to pierce the veil of sarcasm.
thejeff
Maybe, but if he can misread his closest friend that badly, he doesn’t deserve his asshole sage rep.
It’s always the other person’s fault if they don’t improve from whatever bullshit Mike spews.
Captain Oblivious
Did Pandora not deserve her wisdom because no-one was willing to listen?
The title of sage is bequethed not because people listen, but because the teacher has knowledge that they shared. The problem is that people don’t listen (see the Oatmeal: Backfire Effect). Mike is undoubtedly aware of this. Given his flashback nice guy representation, it’s possible the asshole is the affectation out of frustration that people ignore the truth when presented with it. I think his realization before the railing was possible in part because he genuinely cares for people, and he could see he had been taking his affectation too far.
thejeff
But his supposed wisdom comes from his ability to read people and figure them out and if he can’t see how his closest thing to a friend will react, he’s got none of it.
I’d read the realization more as “I’ve been using it as an excuse, like abusers do.”
Regalli
All of this. If he DIDN’T intend to encourage Ethan back into the closet, if he DIDN’T intend to seriously aggravate Amber’s self-loathing on multiple occasions (and uh, he did,) and he’s saying it anyway? Then no, he’s not an asshole sage, because he fundamentally cannot read people in his assholery to HAVE positive effects. He’s just an asshole, because intent is not magic and his actions have done real harm. (Note that Walky has some distinct toxic masculinity issues, like with the shoe. You really think Mike recording him crying and showing it to people – for any reason? – would have a POSITIVE impact on those, or cause him to double down.)
(I do tend to lean that Mike severely underestimated how bad being in a car all day with Blaine would be for Amber relative to her anxiety being on a bus. And like, NO ONE could foresee just how bad that one would have ended up. But a Mike that could accurately read ‘Blaine driving Amber all day under threat of repercussions, even with Ethan there with her, would lead to Blaine taking all his resentment out on Amber through his usual verbal abuse’ and did it anyway? Isn’t just an asshole, that’s flat-out monstrously cruel.)
I’m with thejeff, the realization wasn’t just ‘I’ve been mistreating my friends,’ it’s ‘I’m treating them exactly like Amber’s abusive dad does, with exactly the same justification. Do I really want to be THAT guy?’
Well… the Walky stuff *could* be (if you squint) just standard roommate hijinks/pranks. I mean, low-hanging fruit, with Walky, sometimes.
Rabid Rabbit
Pranks, but also revenge, if only for Walky’s farts. (Though in that one confirmed case, he could spin it as trying to break Walky and Dorothy up for Dorothy’s own good.)
He beat up Joe, and I mean repeatedly punched Joe in the head/FAAAAAAAAACE area, while Joe was on his date with Joyce. At one point, he cites that utterly false claim that men think about sex every six seconds to justify pounding the snot out of someone who, while having some sleazy motives, had in no way earned a continuous beating. That wasn’t him trying to point out Joe’s failings, that was him just beating someone up for no reason.
Hank: Oh he teased you?
Joyce: Dad, no, not like that.
Becky: Yeah, I’m the one doing that.
Joyce: and Joe.
Becky: and Walky, come to think of it.
Joyce: What?
Walky: What?
Hank: I see…
Discussion (157) - “Teased”
Ana Chronistic
the ultimate troll, the Heel Face Turn
JetstreamGW
Hell Face Heel Face Who The Fuck Knows Anymore.
Shawn Levasseur
There are no heels or faces. There’s just “Who is the bigger asshole today?”
Mike is all about being aware of that, and reminding everyone of their potential to be assholes… Including (especially) himself.
It’s just that there are levels of assholery far beyond Mike’s, (such as the late Blaine & ToeDad)
Rognik
Not really a Heel Face Turn. He’s still on the same side, but shows his emotions a different way from normal people.
Stephen Bierce
A heel can team up with a face and still be a heel. A heel can thrown down against a bigger heel and still be a heel. Doesn’t have to be a face turn.
Stephen Bierce
(“throw” not “thrown”)
TemplarKnight
(Insert Joker “Very poor choice of words” gif here)
Chronos
It could also be a Hazy Feel Turn.
Psyme
The Heel Face Moebius
JetstreamGW
He’d do it. You know he’d do it.
Wizard
That would be pretty much ultimate Mike.
Deanatay
No, ULTIMATE Mike would be he inexplicably, impossibly wakes up after ten years in a coma, and proceeds to troll all his former friends in their post-college lives.
“Hey, Joyce – or should I say ‘Mrs Rozenthal’? Didn’t take YOU long to move on, did it?”
Needfuldoer
He doesn’t verify all these little digs, yet somehow they’re all completely accurate.
Doctor_Who
Mike “Hey, can we go up another landing? I’m afraid if I fall from here I’ll just break a leg. Thank you for your patience.”
Thrabalen
Good ol’ Chaotic Neutral. Always leave ’em guessing.
Rognik
Do the right thing while still being a jerk? Total power Mike move.
zelgato
Yeah. He’d do it. Even if he was also trying to be better, or was better. he’d totally pull that power play too.
BIG DECK GETTIN WRECKED
Oh shit Mike, that’s the move.
Sirksome
I think it’s fair and maybe even most appropriate to have a casual indifference. It’s what Mike deserves. Rest in meh, Mike. Rest in meh.
Dara
Legendary trolling. I believe it.
LiterallyJustSomeGuy
I love how Joyce and Becky just sum up Mike’s entire personality
OniLink
Mike would absolutely 100% do that and I don’t know how to feel about it.
Icalasari
…You know what? That theory in the last panel. That’s probably canon
Opus the Poet
I’m Opus the Poet, and I endorse this message.
Geneseepaws
Paid for by the Opus for County dog catcher committee and the Natural Guard.
clif
If it didn’t take any effort, I would absolutely go out and try to recruit 18 year olds for the Natural Guard.
TemplarKnight
Not to be confused with the Au Natural Guard.
Geneseepaws
Veering dangerously into territory I’m only allowed in Fantasy Land, in the dead of night with the lights off.
Let’s return to IRL and have Greta Th. be in charge off the Natural Guard.
Needfuldoer
All in favor of renaming the National Park Service Rangers to the Natural Guard?
Roborat
If you are recruiting for that, I strongly suggest you make sure they are at least 18.
Jamie
It’s in-comic. It’s canon until Mike denies it.
Jhon
Especially if Mike denies it.
BigDogLittleCat
I am literally laughing out loud.
Yotomoe
Man, I honestly do sorta think about dying a martyr just to spite people who talk trash about me.
“That yoto is a perverted asshole”.
“Oh yeah, well he died saving orphans from a burning building and donated all of his life savings to charity.” ”
“But he was such a dick to me online”
“Yeah but he was like donating to caused and battling his inner demons. He was a saint”
God that’d be good revenge.
clif
Maybe, but being a surviving and successful perverted asshole is even better.
Yotomoe
I’ll probably never be successful. I’d much rather be content.
clif
Being content can be its own form of success. There are just, you know, some things we shouldn’t be content with.
Bagge
Becky: He trolled her
Hank: He liked fishing?
Becky: He was kinda like an edgelord jackass
Hank: He liked extreme sport with donkies?
Becky: Totally lit. Extreme kleenex
Hank: I know words…
Agemegos
Ooh! Mike Warner, Christ-like figure!
clif
Go yea and model your life upon him.
TemplarKnight
And let ye who is without mother, cast the first nickel.
Deanatay
Our Edgelord, who art in Heaven
Hallowed be thy spite
Give us this day, our daily troll
And rib us for our trespasses
As we rib those who trespass against us
And lead us not into boredom
But deliver us from complacency
For thine is the anger, and the contempt, and the spite forever,
Amen.
Kyrik Michalowski
This was beautiful.
pjeseb
I mean, none of those options are mutually exclusive.
clif
Fair point.
Golden Yak
Thing is, while Mike could be an asshole, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him make a nasty remark that wasn’t also a genuine criticism of a someone’s personal failing. He would point out flaws or bad habits that, if they were addressed, would make people better off for having addressed them.
He was a huge dick about it, but I wonder if on some level he was also trying to point out shortcomings to people so that they could deal with them. Maybe he wasn’t even aware of it, but maybe he hurt because, deep down, he cared.
I mean, aside from all the mom-fucking cracks, obviously.
Pablo360
He routinely plays on people’s insecurities, not just “personal failings” but percieved personal failings. Remember the time he took photos of Dorothy and Walky in bed together and pretended to extort her? Or literally all of his interactions with Ethan?
abysswatcher1993
Like how he told Ethan to pretend to be straight just to be happy.
Nono
I think that was a jab to try to drag Ethan out of his funk in a way, though. ‘Just imagine, if only you pretended to be straight, you could still be in a sham relationship with Amber.’ But Ethan was too ‘oh yes, that logic makes perfect sense!’ to pierce the veil of sarcasm.
thejeff
Maybe, but if he can misread his closest friend that badly, he doesn’t deserve his asshole sage rep.
It’s always the other person’s fault if they don’t improve from whatever bullshit Mike spews.
Captain Oblivious
Did Pandora not deserve her wisdom because no-one was willing to listen?
The title of sage is bequethed not because people listen, but because the teacher has knowledge that they shared. The problem is that people don’t listen (see the Oatmeal: Backfire Effect). Mike is undoubtedly aware of this. Given his flashback nice guy representation, it’s possible the asshole is the affectation out of frustration that people ignore the truth when presented with it. I think his realization before the railing was possible in part because he genuinely cares for people, and he could see he had been taking his affectation too far.
thejeff
But his supposed wisdom comes from his ability to read people and figure them out and if he can’t see how his closest thing to a friend will react, he’s got none of it.
I’d read the realization more as “I’ve been using it as an excuse, like abusers do.”
Regalli
All of this. If he DIDN’T intend to encourage Ethan back into the closet, if he DIDN’T intend to seriously aggravate Amber’s self-loathing on multiple occasions (and uh, he did,) and he’s saying it anyway? Then no, he’s not an asshole sage, because he fundamentally cannot read people in his assholery to HAVE positive effects. He’s just an asshole, because intent is not magic and his actions have done real harm. (Note that Walky has some distinct toxic masculinity issues, like with the shoe. You really think Mike recording him crying and showing it to people – for any reason? – would have a POSITIVE impact on those, or cause him to double down.)
(I do tend to lean that Mike severely underestimated how bad being in a car all day with Blaine would be for Amber relative to her anxiety being on a bus. And like, NO ONE could foresee just how bad that one would have ended up. But a Mike that could accurately read ‘Blaine driving Amber all day under threat of repercussions, even with Ethan there with her, would lead to Blaine taking all his resentment out on Amber through his usual verbal abuse’ and did it anyway? Isn’t just an asshole, that’s flat-out monstrously cruel.)
I’m with thejeff, the realization wasn’t just ‘I’ve been mistreating my friends,’ it’s ‘I’m treating them exactly like Amber’s abusive dad does, with exactly the same justification. Do I really want to be THAT guy?’
drs
He put his textbook’s in Walky’s backpack for the hell of it.
I think there was something where he made a fake website to make Walky think a show had been canceled.
And recorded Walky crying or something.
Sometimes he did things that could be “dark mirror”, and sometimes he was just an asshole.
abysswatcher1993
And as his conversation with Sarah reveals, he is aware he can get away with awful stuff because of white privilege.
Merbrat
Well… the Walky stuff *could* be (if you squint) just standard roommate hijinks/pranks. I mean, low-hanging fruit, with Walky, sometimes.
Rabid Rabbit
Pranks, but also revenge, if only for Walky’s farts. (Though in that one confirmed case, he could spin it as trying to break Walky and Dorothy up for Dorothy’s own good.)
He Who Abides
He beat up Joe, and I mean repeatedly punched Joe in the head/FAAAAAAAAACE area, while Joe was on his date with Joyce. At one point, he cites that utterly false claim that men think about sex every six seconds to justify pounding the snot out of someone who, while having some sleazy motives, had in no way earned a continuous beating. That wasn’t him trying to point out Joe’s failings, that was him just beating someone up for no reason.
Bagge
Hank: Oh he teased you?
Joyce: Dad, no, not like that.
Becky: Yeah, I’m the one doing that.
Joyce: and Joe.
Becky: and Walky, come to think of it.
Joyce: What?
Walky: What?
Hank: I see…
SuperFroakie82
Joyce and Walky? I don’t believe it, it could never work.
Bagge
Never in this world…
Chronos
The more I see this universe, the more unlikely it seems to me.
Rose by Any Other Name
The more I see of the Joyce and Walky universe, the more unlikely it seems.
Chronos
I’ve only seen up to… mid 2001? 2002? Something like that. I think Walky was dating Dina at the time.
ElderCat
O.O
Dave
Don’t be like that, it was the best she could do.
Spencer
oh god
Droewyn
I read all the available archives recently and I do not like Walkyverse Dina.
I feel bad about it, but she was legitimately awful.
Jamie
Hank would probably be surprisingly comfortable with a poly thing happening to his daughter.
clif
Hard to tell. People have different lines in funny places and nobody changes all at once.
Proto