Dunno about that. Mine was not very skilled, of course, but it was straightforward. We had been talking and cuddling, I asked if I could kiss her, she said ok, and we did.
She ran away afterwards. She was the one who initiated it. What’d I do? I basically stood there for about five minutes, trying to figure out why I was standing there. We dated later.
Nuh uh, mine involved copious alcohol, a dimly lit college nightclub and someone whose name I can’t even remember any more. It was quite enjoyable, at least on my side … perhaps not on the other because I don’t think we ended up leaving together.
Mine took a month of buildup so I didn’t completely freak out… Not sure how I managed to get traumatized without anything having actually happened before, but I managed it, so that first kiss took work.
There is some truth to reminding Joyce that a LOT of people’s various “first times” are disappointing, awkward, etc. But I do think she has legitimate reason to be sad by this point.
/I’m in the “my first kiss was in elementary school” crowd anyway /I didn’t have a romantic kiss until I was in my early twenties, though
mine was with a bipolar high-functioning autistic. She was cute, but emotionally exhausting and demanding. Although I don’t even remember the first kiss specifically, it was so uneventful.
Mine was in rehearsal for a play freshman year of college, but we practiced it in the hall and a friend of ours found us and said “oh god I’m so sorry I didn’t mean to interrupt” and left before we could explain… so sorta awkward?
Mine was a bit more pathetic. Was dating a guy ’cause holy shit someone was actually interested (had never happened before and I was already out of high school). Didn’t really like him but didn’t care because dating is a thing people do and I wanted to pretend to be a person.
Hugging good bye when we’re going to go our seperate ways. He looks me over and says “yeah okay” before giving me the shittiest little peck on the lips ever.
Wtf.
(Kisses with current boyfriend who I actually like are much better though.)
Mine was cool, a girl a year older than me knew I hadn’t been kissed so she invited me over to her place to hang a few times, and then one time as I was leaving she said “you really want to kiss me, right?” I couldn’t quite answer because I was a bit socially inept at the time.
She just came in and laid what is still one of the best kisses in my life on me.
Jesus christ can we stop using that word tho? It’s bummer if people aren’t into u, but any time someone uses that word I lose like 20 points of respect for them.
My first kiss was just for practice, supposedly. But then it turned out I was in lesbians with my bestie and she was straight to the bone. So it was (put a quarter in the epic jar) awesome, but heartbreaking. For me, anyway. She didn’t know anything about all that until many years later.
Whoa whoa whoa, some of us actually have logical reasons for saving that kiss for someone. It doesn’t have to be drilled into you by fundamentalists. You could, yannow, just observe that no one you knew most of your life actually had a shot at helping you to your dreams. That the men you knew would only keep you down. So you save the kiss for the one man who won’t keep you down. Who’ll support your dreams and actually give a shit about what you do, not be so caught up in his own that he either shrugs you off or decides you should stay-at-home-mom forever. You hold the dream until you find someone who actually pushes you to be the woman you want to be, rather than laissez-faire not caring at all on one hand, or forcing his fundamentalist image on you on the other. There’s a logic to this–you give your all to someone who will give his all back. Instead of banking just on feelings or compatibility, the calculations of “hey, do we have a future together” frees you to give that kiss deeply, without angst and “hey is this gonna work.” You KNOW this is gonna work–you’ve done the math–so you go all at it. That’s why you wait. So you can mathify.
I gave my first kiss to a boy under the moonlight on a grassy bridge, trembling with anticipation as water-sprinklers tickled our faces and cool green licked our bare toes. Our fingers dug into each other’s backs as we pressed close; our lips sunk soft into each other as if finally finding a home. His heart thudded against my breast–I gasped. When we let go, all of a sudden laughing and shivering, drinking in each other’s eyes and breath, I felt so free, as if his breath gave my spirit wings…
We’re married now. (I love him!)
The logic paid off and saved me the tons and tons of heartbreak (not to say all the wasted dating time better used for dream-pursuits! I’ve gotten so much more done!). It’s not indoctrinated into me, it’s an intelligent decision for people who know what they want. Not saying I’d force it on you, but sure as hell I’ll have you know saving that ‘first kiss’ isn’t just ignorant fairytale shit.
Li
But this reflects a — frankly uncomfortable “purity” mentality, where you as a woman have extra value that will be lost the second you let someone else break your “freshness seal”.
I had a kiss exactly like the one you describe, only mine was maybe my eighth kiss. The specialness of the first kiss in a new relationship is directly related to how awesome the other person is, and has nothing to do with whether or not you are “damaged goods”.
Long story short, your first kiss with this guy would have been NO LESS AMAZING if you had kissed other people first. Because there is nothing to “save”. You would not have been “tarnished” if you hadn’t “waited”.
I want to emphasize that there is nothing wrong with abstaining from relationships or focusing on other aspects of your life. Nothing. And anyone who ever has or would pressure you to go faster in a relationship than you want to are not worth being with or listening to.
But you know who else isn’t worth being with or listening to? Anybody who would see you as LESS VALUABLE if you hadn’t wanted to wait.
David
li gets a cookie
kiapdx
Li gets all the cookies.
Li
omg a cookie
/gobbles 😀
madd
Why does it have to be about purity? Most people remember their firsts. Good, bad or indifferent, it’s something that you can call up easily in your mind. Some people want it to be something really special in stead of just something you did, with a guy you kind of liked, mostly because you were curious. Personally, I didn’t kiss anyone until I was 21. I wasn’t saving it. I just hadn’t been with anyone I wanted to kiss before then. However, I will freely admit to having issues with trust and being touched.
kiapdx
The issue with the specific argument above though is that Peter Pan was basically saying that if she had kissed anyone else before then the kiss with her future husband, would a) not have been “special” and b) could somehow have resulted in them not getting together at all ever. Which is bogus. (And let’s be real here, kissing isn’t actually a big deal. Genetically speaking, it’s how women “taste” men and get an internal idea of his testosterone levels. It’s a step in the body deciding if that guy is worth mating with, and the tiny testosterone transfers, if the act is repeated, will increase the woman’s libido over time.)
Kiss who you want to kiss (so long as the other party consents). Further, bang who you want to bang (with consent and protection).
You decide your worth as a person. Having premarital hankypanky is not, in fact, going to lower that worth. Nor is having kissed an entire fraternity’s worth of men. If someone sees “has kissed someone before” as a reason to not kiss YOU, then that’s their problem and you can find someone else to kiss. Same with sex or anything else.
Seriously. Just use this logic on anything else. “Has ridden a roller coaster with someone else before so I can’t ride rollercoasters with them”. Nope. “Has at some point in their life eaten cheetos with someone so we can’t eat cheetos together.” Nope. “Has cuddled/held hands/whatever with someone before so we can’t cuddle/hold hands/whatever.” Infinite nopes.
If whether someone has done something that’s pretty mundane and was for their enjoyment (cuddles are comfy (and GOOD FOR YOU) cheetos are delicious and rollercoaster rock, kthanxbai) has any bearing on your decision to enjoy the same activity with them, then you need to rethink things.
Don’t get me wrong, nothing wrong with abstinence or not kissing or not liking cheetos. Whatever your own reasons for it, good for you. Whatever someone else’s reasons are for kissing a lot of people and engaging in premarital hankypanky and eating cheetos, good for them. But throwing up your justification for it and then saying “AND THIS IS HOW EVERYONE SHOULD DO THINGS” is dumb.
Everyone has the right to do what they want. They do not have the right to say “and if you don’t spend days analyzing whether kissing that person is the right thing for you as a person because what if you don’t go anywhere then you aren’t good enough” or some shit.
(I mean fuck I’ve been dating my boyfriend for 2 years (as of this coming Saturday). We made out before he even considered asking me out properly. We’re also pretty happy. Not a whole lot of analysis went into things, but we were and are consenting adults and if things hadn’t worked out, or don’t work out in the future, we are grown-ups and can handle the idea of “not the one”. There is no the one. Or, rather, there are a lot of potential “the one”s. It’s just a matter of when you meet, circumstances in your lives at the time, etc. A lot of it is luck. Whether or not you have ever kissed someone else does not and should not have any effect whatsoever.)
I see your point, but I think you missed this sentence: “there’s a logic to this–you give your all to someone who will give his all back.” The idea is that the other guy doesn’t DESERVE my first kiss unless he’s gonna stick with me. Why should I waste the time on him when I have better things to do? It’s a bit cold and calculating, but it saves so much wasted time and heartbreak. I’m saying quite the opposite of what you think I’m saying–I’m TOO valuable to waste time on someone who’s not in it for the long run. It’s not worth the investment.
Li
Like I said, you are not obligated to kiss anyone you don’t want to kiss. But I reject the notion that my first kiss and virginity are “my all”, to be given away to someone. They aren’t. I haven’t “lost” anything by kissing or having sex with someone. All I’ve done is experienced something new. I have gained something. But then again, I also don’t think having your heart broken is necessarily wasting time; we learn so much more by failing in this life than we learn by succeeding.
So, if someone isn’t worth your time, he (or she) isn’t worth your time, period. No contesting that. But you are still defining your VALUE as something that can be lost by kissing someone, and I still object to that.
I haven’t heard that last one used as an insult before. Are “snow cats” known for stealing first kisses? Why did all those years of studying Japan not teach me this? My degree is useless! USELESS!!
you must have missed the ‘preconceived notions/new ideas’ comic.
in joyce’s world, being gay is just another(albeit voluntary in their minds) illness that can be cured via prayer.
she will first: not believe him.
second: begin praying for him. quite a LOT.
thirdly: continues to not believe him.
eventually she’ll condemn him to his sin until he finds the (platonic) love of/for jesus.
(note: not all christians believe thusly. however, the brand that joyce has quite ably demonstrated herself to be – ‘non-denominational(but has to be the right doctrine)’ charismatic type… they, unfortunately DO. and even the ones who are all ‘love the sinner’ still do the ‘pray the gay away’)
I know that “platonic love” now means the same as “non-sexual love”, but I’m pretty sure a lot of theologians would be very upset with you describing the love one should have for Jesus as “platonic.”
Of course, I’m Jewish, so I could be completely off here.
Kelly
huh?
Static Air
When you say “platonic”, do you mean love in the principle of Plato, like in a theistic sense, and spiritual, but not Christian sense. If so, I would say it depends on the person. There was one early female philosopher who wrote proofs of Euclidean geometry incorporating Platonic principles. She was later torn to pieces by Christians, and then burnt to ashes, but that was centuries ago.
Likewise, because of its continued use, fewer people would associate that meaning or direct correlation with that word, and even fewer would have a deep understanding of it and be that offended by it, I believe.
Then again, I’m an atheist, so I have no idea either.
Peruhain
Platonic love usually means the love that good friends have for each other, as opposed to romantic love, which has a sexual component.
Interestingly, a lot of biblical passages that are commonly cited to describe the love-relationship we are supposed to have with God use romantic love as a metaphor to help us understand it. If we think of Song of Solomon as a set of poems celebrating God’s love for God’s people, then we are supposed to love God as a woman loves the man who woos her, with tremendous passion, body and soul.
Of course, conventional Christian culture wastes a lot of energy on suppressing sexual passion, rather than recognizing it as part of what makes us human and connects us to God, in whose image we are said to be created.
jiynx
how, exactly, would ‘platonic’ not be exactly how a christian would love jesus?
in the classical sense, it describes a love for another person that directs one towards the spiritual.
gosh, that kinda sounds like the whole, you know, POINT.
but i guess that’s way off the mark cause you know, christians hardly follow christ’s teachings nowadays.
‘love your god with all your heart and all your soul and all your might’ – they get pretty close on that one, i GUESS, but getting it right hinges on the second one which all but the rare few fail on outright:
‘love thy neighbor as you would love thyself.’
jesus said feck-all about gay people. or people of color. or people who believe differently, other than that you should tell them about his teachings, if they’ll listen. he said not one damn word about gender. or age.
why did i go off on that tangent? because, it directly relates to my opening comment.
have fun with that.
Raius
Luke 19:27
GShyft
Yeah, he was sort of telling a story when he said that, and those were the words of a character in the story.
If Ethan doesn’t want to deal with Joyce’s prejudices, he doesn’t have to out himself to her. But he does need to tell her “I’m sorry, I can’t be your boyfriend.”
Li
This. Ethan’s explanation to Joyce need not be full of “my sexual orientation is xyz.”
He might still feel obligated to offer it up as an excuse for his behavior, but a.) I wouldn’t recommend it, since then he’d have told a fundamentalist Christian that he WANTED to be made un-gay, b.) he doesn’t really deserve to make excuses here. What he did to Joyce is pretty gross and he should bear whatever anger she has to bring.
184 thoughts on “First”
Yotomoe
Joyce sweetie…that’s what ALL first kisses are.
Sir Robin
Yup, exactly like that
Resne
Well, mine involved being tackled into a moving car…
Baroncognito
No, my first kiss didn’t involve a boyfriend looking at me like I’d gone crazy. I’d wager that about half of first kisses don’t.
ItsaMe
Yes, about half; I had a girlfriend.
Skull025
My first kiss was like a large koala munching on a zombie from “Walking Dead”. Gotta love that after-buffet food build up.
Wonder Wig
I had an awesome first kiss. It was lying on the grass after she fell on top of me, both of us tired after a day of riding the bus together.
Kelly
Dunno about that. Mine was not very skilled, of course, but it was straightforward. We had been talking and cuddling, I asked if I could kiss her, she said ok, and we did.
Mr. Random
She ran away afterwards. She was the one who initiated it. What’d I do? I basically stood there for about five minutes, trying to figure out why I was standing there. We dated later.
Dicrel Seijin
Er… mine was with my (female) teacher. And that’s really all I’m going to say.
Shobo
You can’t just drop that on us. I hope you weren’t negatively affected by it.
Icalasari
My first kiss went perfectly
tahrey
Nuh uh, mine involved copious alcohol, a dimly lit college nightclub and someone whose name I can’t even remember any more. It was quite enjoyable, at least on my side … perhaps not on the other because I don’t think we ended up leaving together.
Darkflame
you dont THINK you ended up living together?
Alyssa
Mine took a month of buildup so I didn’t completely freak out… Not sure how I managed to get traumatized without anything having actually happened before, but I managed it, so that first kiss took work.
Li
There is some truth to reminding Joyce that a LOT of people’s various “first times” are disappointing, awkward, etc. But I do think she has legitimate reason to be sad by this point.
/I’m in the “my first kiss was in elementary school” crowd anyway /I didn’t have a romantic kiss until I was in my early twenties, though
SHAZAM
Yeah I’m in that crowd (though I can’t confirm the first romantic kiss part yet)
someguywithakatana
Mine would’ve been great if it hadn’t been with an emotionally manipulative she-harpie.
I mean, it was fine at the time. Just in retrospect it becomes… unfortunate…
So my sympathies to our protagonist.
petsinwinter
mine was with a bipolar high-functioning autistic. She was cute, but emotionally exhausting and demanding. Although I don’t even remember the first kiss specifically, it was so uneventful.
The E-man
Mine was in rehearsal for a play freshman year of college, but we practiced it in the hall and a friend of ours found us and said “oh god I’m so sorry I didn’t mean to interrupt” and left before we could explain… so sorta awkward?
Osaru Sensei
I can’t even remember my first kiss xD
Too distracted by sudden self-participation of a girl-on-girl kiss.
kiapdx
Mine was a bit more pathetic. Was dating a guy ’cause holy shit someone was actually interested (had never happened before and I was already out of high school). Didn’t really like him but didn’t care because dating is a thing people do and I wanted to pretend to be a person.
Hugging good bye when we’re going to go our seperate ways. He looks me over and says “yeah okay” before giving me the shittiest little peck on the lips ever.
Wtf.
(Kisses with current boyfriend who I actually like are much better though.)
mouseanderson
Mine involved a closet, leather and an assistant librarian not named Marian.
Tucker
Mine was cool, a girl a year older than me knew I hadn’t been kissed so she invited me over to her place to hang a few times, and then one time as I was leaving she said “you really want to kiss me, right?” I couldn’t quite answer because I was a bit socially inept at the time.
She just came in and laid what is still one of the best kisses in my life on me.
Be in envy, DOAers, be in envy.
Neospector
I envy all of you who haven’t been friendzoned since first grade, I really do.
fit-to-freak
Jesus christ can we stop using that word tho? It’s bummer if people aren’t into u, but any time someone uses that word I lose like 20 points of respect for them.
PetrePan
Agreed! I think it de-values friendship, as if to be in the ‘friend zone’ is somehow less valuable than romance, which it shouldn’t be.
Narf
To echo the other two who have already said this, using the word “friendzone” is pretty fuckin’ douchey.
Jenny Creed
My first kiss was just for practice, supposedly. But then it turned out I was in lesbians with my bestie and she was straight to the bone. So it was (put a quarter in the epic jar) awesome, but heartbreaking. For me, anyway. She didn’t know anything about all that until many years later.
So, normal first kiss I guess.
WatermelonStopsign
First kiss?
Brian Lynch
She’s homeschooled by fundamentalists, not that surprising.
PetrePan
Whoa whoa whoa, some of us actually have logical reasons for saving that kiss for someone. It doesn’t have to be drilled into you by fundamentalists. You could, yannow, just observe that no one you knew most of your life actually had a shot at helping you to your dreams. That the men you knew would only keep you down. So you save the kiss for the one man who won’t keep you down. Who’ll support your dreams and actually give a shit about what you do, not be so caught up in his own that he either shrugs you off or decides you should stay-at-home-mom forever. You hold the dream until you find someone who actually pushes you to be the woman you want to be, rather than laissez-faire not caring at all on one hand, or forcing his fundamentalist image on you on the other. There’s a logic to this–you give your all to someone who will give his all back. Instead of banking just on feelings or compatibility, the calculations of “hey, do we have a future together” frees you to give that kiss deeply, without angst and “hey is this gonna work.” You KNOW this is gonna work–you’ve done the math–so you go all at it. That’s why you wait. So you can mathify.
I gave my first kiss to a boy under the moonlight on a grassy bridge, trembling with anticipation as water-sprinklers tickled our faces and cool green licked our bare toes. Our fingers dug into each other’s backs as we pressed close; our lips sunk soft into each other as if finally finding a home. His heart thudded against my breast–I gasped. When we let go, all of a sudden laughing and shivering, drinking in each other’s eyes and breath, I felt so free, as if his breath gave my spirit wings…
We’re married now. (I love him!)
The logic paid off and saved me the tons and tons of heartbreak (not to say all the wasted dating time better used for dream-pursuits! I’ve gotten so much more done!). It’s not indoctrinated into me, it’s an intelligent decision for people who know what they want. Not saying I’d force it on you, but sure as hell I’ll have you know saving that ‘first kiss’ isn’t just ignorant fairytale shit.
Li
But this reflects a — frankly uncomfortable “purity” mentality, where you as a woman have extra value that will be lost the second you let someone else break your “freshness seal”.
I had a kiss exactly like the one you describe, only mine was maybe my eighth kiss. The specialness of the first kiss in a new relationship is directly related to how awesome the other person is, and has nothing to do with whether or not you are “damaged goods”.
Long story short, your first kiss with this guy would have been NO LESS AMAZING if you had kissed other people first. Because there is nothing to “save”. You would not have been “tarnished” if you hadn’t “waited”.
I want to emphasize that there is nothing wrong with abstaining from relationships or focusing on other aspects of your life. Nothing. And anyone who ever has or would pressure you to go faster in a relationship than you want to are not worth being with or listening to.
But you know who else isn’t worth being with or listening to? Anybody who would see you as LESS VALUABLE if you hadn’t wanted to wait.
David
li gets a cookie
kiapdx
Li gets all the cookies.
Li
omg a cookie
/gobbles 😀
madd
Why does it have to be about purity? Most people remember their firsts. Good, bad or indifferent, it’s something that you can call up easily in your mind. Some people want it to be something really special in stead of just something you did, with a guy you kind of liked, mostly because you were curious. Personally, I didn’t kiss anyone until I was 21. I wasn’t saving it. I just hadn’t been with anyone I wanted to kiss before then. However, I will freely admit to having issues with trust and being touched.
kiapdx
The issue with the specific argument above though is that Peter Pan was basically saying that if she had kissed anyone else before then the kiss with her future husband, would a) not have been “special” and b) could somehow have resulted in them not getting together at all ever. Which is bogus. (And let’s be real here, kissing isn’t actually a big deal. Genetically speaking, it’s how women “taste” men and get an internal idea of his testosterone levels. It’s a step in the body deciding if that guy is worth mating with, and the tiny testosterone transfers, if the act is repeated, will increase the woman’s libido over time.)
Kiss who you want to kiss (so long as the other party consents). Further, bang who you want to bang (with consent and protection).
You decide your worth as a person. Having premarital hankypanky is not, in fact, going to lower that worth. Nor is having kissed an entire fraternity’s worth of men. If someone sees “has kissed someone before” as a reason to not kiss YOU, then that’s their problem and you can find someone else to kiss. Same with sex or anything else.
Seriously. Just use this logic on anything else. “Has ridden a roller coaster with someone else before so I can’t ride rollercoasters with them”. Nope. “Has at some point in their life eaten cheetos with someone so we can’t eat cheetos together.” Nope. “Has cuddled/held hands/whatever with someone before so we can’t cuddle/hold hands/whatever.” Infinite nopes.
If whether someone has done something that’s pretty mundane and was for their enjoyment (cuddles are comfy (and GOOD FOR YOU) cheetos are delicious and rollercoaster rock, kthanxbai) has any bearing on your decision to enjoy the same activity with them, then you need to rethink things.
Don’t get me wrong, nothing wrong with abstinence or not kissing or not liking cheetos. Whatever your own reasons for it, good for you. Whatever someone else’s reasons are for kissing a lot of people and engaging in premarital hankypanky and eating cheetos, good for them. But throwing up your justification for it and then saying “AND THIS IS HOW EVERYONE SHOULD DO THINGS” is dumb.
Everyone has the right to do what they want. They do not have the right to say “and if you don’t spend days analyzing whether kissing that person is the right thing for you as a person because what if you don’t go anywhere then you aren’t good enough” or some shit.
(I mean fuck I’ve been dating my boyfriend for 2 years (as of this coming Saturday). We made out before he even considered asking me out properly. We’re also pretty happy. Not a whole lot of analysis went into things, but we were and are consenting adults and if things hadn’t worked out, or don’t work out in the future, we are grown-ups and can handle the idea of “not the one”. There is no the one. Or, rather, there are a lot of potential “the one”s. It’s just a matter of when you meet, circumstances in your lives at the time, etc. A lot of it is luck. Whether or not you have ever kissed someone else does not and should not have any effect whatsoever.)
PetrePan
I see your point, but I think you missed this sentence: “there’s a logic to this–you give your all to someone who will give his all back.” The idea is that the other guy doesn’t DESERVE my first kiss unless he’s gonna stick with me. Why should I waste the time on him when I have better things to do? It’s a bit cold and calculating, but it saves so much wasted time and heartbreak. I’m saying quite the opposite of what you think I’m saying–I’m TOO valuable to waste time on someone who’s not in it for the long run. It’s not worth the investment.
Li
Like I said, you are not obligated to kiss anyone you don’t want to kiss. But I reject the notion that my first kiss and virginity are “my all”, to be given away to someone. They aren’t. I haven’t “lost” anything by kissing or having sex with someone. All I’ve done is experienced something new. I have gained something. But then again, I also don’t think having your heart broken is necessarily wasting time; we learn so much more by failing in this life than we learn by succeeding.
So, if someone isn’t worth your time, he (or she) isn’t worth your time, period. No contesting that. But you are still defining your VALUE as something that can be lost by kissing someone, and I still object to that.
Thor
OH NOES! HER PRECIOUS FIRST KISS!
It’s a good thing this isn’t a manga, or Ethan would have to take responsibility. Ecchi! Baka! Yukineko!
Ryorin
I haven’t heard that last one used as an insult before. Are “snow cats” known for stealing first kisses? Why did all those years of studying Japan not teach me this? My degree is useless! USELESS!!
tahrey
I’m with Ryorin … that last one was a joke, right? Or have I slipped even further behind the anime curve than I already realised?
tahrey
Particularly as when I think “Snow Cat”, what comes to mind is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tbjFHZ_W1bo#t=103s
Ryorin
…That is ADORABLE. And practical! I want one.
Daibhid Ceannaideach
It’s also a good thing it’s not Nodwick, or Ethan would now have the power to reshape the universe. There’d be Batman everywhere.
…Wait, maybe it’s not a good thing.
Jen Aside
So, everything she’d dreamed it would be… ♥
=*
SUGauthor
Poor Joyce…
xain
okay with this ethan really needs to be honest with joyce and himself for that matter
jiynx
you must have missed the ‘preconceived notions/new ideas’ comic.
in joyce’s world, being gay is just another(albeit voluntary in their minds) illness that can be cured via prayer.
she will first: not believe him.
second: begin praying for him. quite a LOT.
thirdly: continues to not believe him.
eventually she’ll condemn him to his sin until he finds the (platonic) love of/for jesus.
(note: not all christians believe thusly. however, the brand that joyce has quite ably demonstrated herself to be – ‘non-denominational(but has to be the right doctrine)’ charismatic type… they, unfortunately DO. and even the ones who are all ‘love the sinner’ still do the ‘pray the gay away’)
Plasma Mongoose
For extra irony, Ethan could end up with either a guy named Jesus or a guy who looks like Jesus as a result.
Revieloutionne
Well, I guess we know DOAverse Historical Jesus’ role now…
Josh
We did have white biblical Jesus in the background of that last class!
Historyman68
I know that “platonic love” now means the same as “non-sexual love”, but I’m pretty sure a lot of theologians would be very upset with you describing the love one should have for Jesus as “platonic.”
Of course, I’m Jewish, so I could be completely off here.
Kelly
huh?
Static Air
When you say “platonic”, do you mean love in the principle of Plato, like in a theistic sense, and spiritual, but not Christian sense. If so, I would say it depends on the person. There was one early female philosopher who wrote proofs of Euclidean geometry incorporating Platonic principles. She was later torn to pieces by Christians, and then burnt to ashes, but that was centuries ago.
Likewise, because of its continued use, fewer people would associate that meaning or direct correlation with that word, and even fewer would have a deep understanding of it and be that offended by it, I believe.
Then again, I’m an atheist, so I have no idea either.
Peruhain
Platonic love usually means the love that good friends have for each other, as opposed to romantic love, which has a sexual component.
Interestingly, a lot of biblical passages that are commonly cited to describe the love-relationship we are supposed to have with God use romantic love as a metaphor to help us understand it. If we think of Song of Solomon as a set of poems celebrating God’s love for God’s people, then we are supposed to love God as a woman loves the man who woos her, with tremendous passion, body and soul.
Of course, conventional Christian culture wastes a lot of energy on suppressing sexual passion, rather than recognizing it as part of what makes us human and connects us to God, in whose image we are said to be created.
jiynx
how, exactly, would ‘platonic’ not be exactly how a christian would love jesus?
in the classical sense, it describes a love for another person that directs one towards the spiritual.
gosh, that kinda sounds like the whole, you know, POINT.
but i guess that’s way off the mark cause you know, christians hardly follow christ’s teachings nowadays.
‘love your god with all your heart and all your soul and all your might’ – they get pretty close on that one, i GUESS, but getting it right hinges on the second one which all but the rare few fail on outright:
‘love thy neighbor as you would love thyself.’
jesus said feck-all about gay people. or people of color. or people who believe differently, other than that you should tell them about his teachings, if they’ll listen. he said not one damn word about gender. or age.
why did i go off on that tangent? because, it directly relates to my opening comment.
have fun with that.
Raius
Luke 19:27
GShyft
Yeah, he was sort of telling a story when he said that, and those were the words of a character in the story.
Greenygal
If Ethan doesn’t want to deal with Joyce’s prejudices, he doesn’t have to out himself to her. But he does need to tell her “I’m sorry, I can’t be your boyfriend.”
Li
This. Ethan’s explanation to Joyce need not be full of “my sexual orientation is xyz.”
He might still feel obligated to offer it up as an excuse for his behavior, but a.) I wouldn’t recommend it, since then he’d have told a fundamentalist Christian that he WANTED to be made un-gay, b.) he doesn’t really deserve to make excuses here. What he did to Joyce is pretty gross and he should bear whatever anger she has to bring.
David Herbert
Mine was more of a “Oh shit, she didn’t want it, now she hates me OH GOD! Oh wait, she went in for seconds, okay, I guess.”
wynne
Ach, mine involved waaaaaaay too much tongue. Especially for a first one.
wynne
Followed closely by “what the hell am I supposed to do with my tongue, now that his is getting way too close and personal?”
Shariku Onikage
I’m so glad this isn’t just me.
Even now i’m clueless as to the tongue’s role in the act of kissing. Is it meant to make it more sensual? More erotic?
Most of the time i just feel like i should be either apologising or starting some tongue-based thumb war.
angelina
oh my god you just described my first kiss. i shudder to remember it
Wack'd
My first kiss was technically like three minutes long but regularly punctuated by me going into fits of nervous laughter.
It was also unfortunately rapidly followed up by a whole bunch of other firsts.
Yotomoe
I read that as fists for a second.
jiynx
that makes it way hotter.
xKiv
A kiss with fists is better than none.
Wack'd
Fists…would’ve been preferable, yes, compared to what followed.